:00:14. > :00:18.Tonight, running from Syria's war, it's the journey that cost
:00:18. > :00:23.desperate refugees their life savings and sometimes their lives.
:00:23. > :00:28.Hoping for help in Europe we trace the extraordinary odyssey of the
:00:28. > :00:32.thousands fleeing Syria first to turkey and from there a perilous
:00:32. > :00:42.journey on the seas to Greece, where they receive the coldest of
:00:42. > :00:50.
:00:50. > :00:53.welcomes. Those that get there are Also tonight, a sales pitch from
:00:53. > :00:58.Labour's leader. I have just been down the road at
:00:58. > :01:02.Newham docks to watch Ed Miliband set out his stall on welfare reform.
:01:02. > :01:05.This is an issue of trust, will the British public buy it?
:01:05. > :01:09.The Americans and Australians think they are a security risk. So who
:01:09. > :01:16.decided to let a Chinese firm get involved in major UK telecoms
:01:16. > :01:20.contracts. To our shock and horror we discovered that decision was
:01:20. > :01:25.taken by cabinet officials who didn't even inform ministers, never
:01:25. > :01:32.mind ask for their decision. When the story of one of the beautiful
:01:32. > :01:35.game's oldest clubs collided with a thoroughly modern phenomenon of
:01:35. > :01:45.payday lending. How did Bolton Wanderers come to find itself
:01:45. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :01:51.looking for an early get out from its latest sponsorship deal.
:01:51. > :01:57.Good evening, the shockwaves of Syria's civil war are radiating
:01:57. > :02:01.more and more widely. Today there was fighting on the go lan heights
:02:01. > :02:08.close to Israel. In Lebanon among supporters of the two sides.
:02:08. > :02:13.Millions have been uprooted and neighbours worry a tide of refugees
:02:13. > :02:17.threatens their own stability. Some reach Europe and it is in Greece,
:02:17. > :02:21.crisis-hit Greece with its tanked economy and rampant far right that
:02:21. > :02:29.many Syrians literally wash up, if they don't die on the way. In a
:02:29. > :02:34.special report for Newsnight we follow their journey.
:02:34. > :02:41.The cease tape from Syria begins with refugees crossing the border,
:02:41. > :02:51.here into Turkey. They are tired and angry.
:02:51. > :02:52.
:02:52. > :02:59.A fight breaks out among the men. A woman vents her frustration on us.
:02:59. > :03:09.Why you take photo, two years you take photo, what are you doing?
:03:09. > :03:10.
:03:10. > :03:14.Nothing. The people are dying, nothing. The refugee camp here has
:03:14. > :03:18.a desperate look of permanence. With no end to the conflict in
:03:18. > :03:28.sight Syrians can be forgiven for wanting to rebuild their lives
:03:28. > :03:32.
:03:32. > :03:39.elsewhere. Today the camp is full. Those turned away set off on foot.
:03:39. > :03:46.50,000 have settled in the nearest town they reach. But jobs there are
:03:46. > :03:56.few. Those who can move on with their hopes pinned on the countries
:03:56. > :03:58.
:03:58. > :04:07.of the European Union. They go over 1,000 kilometres North West to
:04:07. > :04:12.Istanbul. The ancient crossroads between east and west. The gateway
:04:12. > :04:16.to Europe through Greece. But the Greeks are unwilling to give visas
:04:16. > :04:21.or asylum to Syrian refugees who arrive at official border crossings.
:04:21. > :04:25.It is here that the Syrian refugees must link up with the gangs of
:04:25. > :04:29.people smugglers operating in the city. They then organise a journey
:04:29. > :04:33.that will be expensive and will involve huge risk.
:04:33. > :04:43.They are told to go to a district of the city where they can meet
:04:43. > :05:09.
:05:09. > :05:13.people they can do business with, He took them to Turkey's western
:05:13. > :05:23.coast from where the border with Greece runs along the Aegean sea.
:05:23. > :05:27.
:05:27. > :05:32.It is just 12kms to the nearest Greek island, Lesvos. It is an easy
:05:32. > :05:41.and pleasant ferry ride if you have money, a visa or a European
:05:42. > :05:45.passport. Which is why no Syrians are travelling with me. The
:05:45. > :05:55.smugglers insist they begin their journey from the Turkish coast in
:05:55. > :06:02.small boats at night. Many don't make it. Just a few weeks ago this
:06:02. > :06:06.man received a call from the coastguard at Lesvos to come and
:06:06. > :06:12.collect the bodies and belongings of his brother's family. His
:06:12. > :06:16.brother, sister-in-law and three children drowned. The body of the
:06:16. > :06:21.youngest child hasn't been recovered. It was while he was
:06:21. > :06:31.searching for his family that he met survivors of boats that had
:06:31. > :06:54.
:06:54. > :07:00.Refugees support organisations are getting many reports of boats being
:07:00. > :07:06.deliberate low pushed back from Greek into Turkish water. A charge
:07:06. > :07:10.the Greek coastguard deny. But these pictures show refugees
:07:10. > :07:15.behaving recklessly. They say the only way they can stop the
:07:15. > :07:19.coastguard from pushing them back is to scuttle their boats and hope
:07:19. > :07:26.they are rescued from the sea. Whatever is going on here hundreds
:07:26. > :07:31.of drowned. -- hundreds have drowned. Here on the Aegean the
:07:31. > :07:34.Greeks are supported by the pan- European border police, Frontex.
:07:34. > :07:39.Forces from all over the European Union take turns to patrol the
:07:39. > :07:46.borders of Greece, used by some 90% of illegal immigrants entering
:07:46. > :07:56.Europe. I asked the Romanian crew whether they push boats carrying
:07:56. > :08:03.
:08:03. > :08:10.Turkey. He clearly didn't want to talk about it. Preferring instead
:08:10. > :08:19.to tell me how, earlier, they had found a group of refugees who had
:08:19. > :08:26.become stranded on an uninhabited island. They built a fire, we
:08:26. > :08:30.approach and used a searchlight to find the number and their state.
:08:30. > :08:40.One of the Syrian refugees who lit the fire that morning takes up the
:08:40. > :09:16.
:09:16. > :09:25.Eventually the Greek coastguard collected 40 refugees from the
:09:25. > :09:29.island, 25 Afghans and 15 Syrians. They are pickeding up dozens every
:09:29. > :09:38.day and as the summer goes on, with no end to the killing in Syria,
:09:38. > :09:42.there will be many more. The Syrians are Christians who fled in
:09:42. > :09:48.fear of rising Muslim extremism. Some still have family back home
:09:48. > :09:51.and don't want to be identified. They have each paid 1500 euros to
:09:51. > :10:01.the smugglers to get this far. They want to get to the countries of
:10:01. > :10:22.
:10:22. > :10:29.northern Europe and are bitter they The coastguard and police make no
:10:29. > :10:34.effort to look after the new arrivals. Volunteers from the
:10:34. > :10:39.island give them their first meal in 24 hours. Heavy rain is forecast
:10:39. > :10:45.and most of the space in the one van provided is taken by families
:10:45. > :10:55.with children. Those who have been soaked at sea now get a second
:10:55. > :10:57.
:10:57. > :11:01.Frenching. -- drenching. I go and ask the coastguard what is going on.
:11:01. > :11:05.How long will you keep these people out here in the cold and rain.
:11:05. > :11:08.must talk to the officer. Have you told them what distress these
:11:08. > :11:12.people are in and it will get colder as the night progresses.
:11:12. > :11:18.They are coming. Someone is coming to help. So they will take them
:11:18. > :11:24.away for the night, yes? It is possible. They will go somewhere to
:11:24. > :11:32.sleep. But no-one comes to collect them and they settle down on the
:11:32. > :11:42.quay for an uncomfortable night. They are looked in just metres from
:11:42. > :11:43.
:11:43. > :11:48.the bright lights of Levv so, s. One of the most pop -- Levos. One
:11:48. > :11:52.of the most popular islands in Greece. Refugees have been held for
:11:52. > :11:56.weeks on the islands, scenes like these seen by tourists have brought
:11:56. > :12:01.harsh criticism from the United Nations and the European Union. As
:12:01. > :12:08.a result there have been some changes. Two days after arriving
:12:08. > :12:15.the Afghans have to stay but the Syrians are now allowed on to the
:12:15. > :12:20.ferry for an overnight crossing to the mainland. From where they go on
:12:20. > :12:30.to Athens. But, for the majority who make it this far the road ends
:12:30. > :12:32.
:12:32. > :12:36.in the Greek capital. Where things can get worse. Golden Dawn, a party
:12:36. > :12:41.with an anti-immigration agenda is the third most popular in Greece
:12:41. > :12:49.today, with support among a people reduced by austerity measures. With
:12:49. > :12:59.little sympathy for outsiders who need help. The party has been
:12:59. > :13:08.
:13:09. > :13:12.blamed for recent attacks on The family who fled north eastern
:13:12. > :13:17.Syria spent 10,000 euros getting to Athens. They want to leave Greece
:13:17. > :13:27.and they gave all the money they had left to a smuggler who buy fake
:13:27. > :13:45.
:13:45. > :13:49.passports to get them to Sweden to The family is now stranded in a
:13:49. > :13:58.one-room apartment paid for by the Syrian community here. The older
:13:58. > :14:04.boys don't dare leave it for fear of arrest. All those found entering
:14:04. > :14:09.the country illegally are detained. This man nearly drowned on his
:14:09. > :14:19.journey and was sitting in a cafe in Athens when he was picked up and
:14:19. > :14:37.
:14:37. > :14:47.He was held for weeks in prison and then transferred to a detention
:14:47. > :14:59.
:14:59. > :15:07.camp. Thousands much Syrians have been
:15:07. > :15:14.arrested and detained in Greece over the last two years. Only two
:15:14. > :15:18.Syrians out of hundreds who have applied have been given asylum. A
:15:18. > :15:21.European Commission report recently said that the conditions endured by
:15:21. > :15:31.Syrians in Greece are unacceptable. The Greek Government says they are
:15:31. > :16:07.
:16:07. > :16:17.A constant plea I heard from Syrians to the Greeks if you won't
:16:17. > :16:26.
:16:26. > :16:29.It is the misfortune for those Syrians who want to rebuild their
:16:29. > :16:33.lives in the European Union and beyond that the first country they
:16:33. > :16:43.stumble in to is Greece. And yet few other countries are offering
:16:43. > :16:47.these people the opportunity either. Well, earlier on I spoke to Cecilia
:16:47. > :16:51.Malmstrom, the EU Commissioner in charge of home affairs who recently
:16:51. > :16:55.visited Athens to talk to the authorities about the refugee
:16:56. > :17:00.problem there. I started by asking her whether she accepted that in
:17:00. > :17:06.their economic and social crisis it is actually very hard for Greece.
:17:06. > :17:10.It is very hard for Greece. Greece is having a tremendous problem on
:17:10. > :17:14.their own. However they have the responsibility to give these people
:17:14. > :17:20.shelter, to give them asylum or at least some temporary protection,
:17:20. > :17:27.while we all see every day the atrocities going in to Syria.
:17:27. > :17:34.you know how many people so far the Greek Government has given asylum
:17:34. > :17:38.to? I think formal asylum very few have been given. Two.Two, yes. As
:17:38. > :17:44.far as we know nobody has been sent back once they are in the Greek
:17:44. > :17:49.territory. There should be some thousands of refugees from Syria,
:17:49. > :17:51.that is a general problem in Greece that their asylum system has not
:17:51. > :17:54.been functioning, they are gradually trying to build up a
:17:54. > :17:58.system with assistance from the European, but it has been broken
:17:58. > :18:02.for many, many years. If they are not sent back, but they are not
:18:02. > :18:08.given asylum, effectively the future seems to promise then
:18:08. > :18:13.thousands more Syrians held in a kind of detention in Greece? Yes.
:18:13. > :18:16.Syrians and others are held in Greece in detention. This is
:18:16. > :18:19.something we are very concerned about. I'm talking to the Greek
:18:19. > :18:22.authorities about this because they have to be given alternatives to
:18:22. > :18:28.detention. They have to build up some sort of open reception centres
:18:28. > :18:32.where people can apply for asylum in appropriate ways, and not be
:18:32. > :18:37.looked in or kept into these kind of detention centres, that is
:18:37. > :18:41.against European law. Europe is helping Greece in the sense of
:18:41. > :18:45.assisting them with border security measures, shouldn't they also help
:18:45. > :18:50.in terms of providing asylum to those people to ease the situation
:18:50. > :18:53.there? We are helping Greece a lot. We are helping them financially to
:18:53. > :18:59.build up a capacity to receive people. We have experts on the
:18:59. > :19:05.ground. We are helping to train police, staff, border guards, the
:19:05. > :19:08.people who deal with asylum and so on. A sort of relocation mechanism
:19:08. > :19:12.within the European Union is, for the moment, there is no political
:19:12. > :19:16.support for that. As I say most of the Syrians, in total there has
:19:16. > :19:20.been around 40,000 coming since the beginning of the conflict. Very few
:19:20. > :19:23.compared to the millions who have fled Syria. Most of them are in
:19:23. > :19:27.other countries than Greece. There is not a political will today for
:19:27. > :19:31.other countries to alleviate and to take people from Greece,
:19:31. > :19:35.unfortunately. Can I pick you up on the last point, the issue of
:19:35. > :19:37.political will. Clearly in the 1990s in the wars in the former
:19:37. > :19:43.Yugoslavia there was a different situation, wasn't there. Many
:19:43. > :19:46.people were resettled across Europe, what has changed do you think?
:19:46. > :19:49.that was a different situation. From that we have learned that
:19:49. > :19:53.should there be a really, really big pressure in Europe from a
:19:53. > :19:59.particular country, we are talking about hundreds of thousands coming,
:19:59. > :20:04.there is the protection directive, that has never been used,
:20:04. > :20:07.established after the war in Yugoslavia. It has never been used.
:20:07. > :20:13.We are following the matter closely. 40,000 people to the whole of
:20:13. > :20:16.Europe in the last two-and-a-half years not enough to activate the
:20:16. > :20:19.protection mechanism. We are encouraging European countries to
:20:19. > :20:24.give Syrians protection for the moment. You are saying 40,000
:20:24. > :20:28.doesn't qualify this as a crisis big enough to invoke the special EU
:20:28. > :20:32.temporary protection measures. You could argue it is a manageable one
:20:32. > :20:38.if the political will is there. What is lacking, do you think
:20:38. > :20:40.Europe has changed since the period of the Balkan wars, has it become
:20:41. > :20:44.more nationalistic and less tolerant? The situation in Europe
:20:44. > :20:47.is very difficult with the economic crisis. There are strong
:20:47. > :20:51.nationalist and populist movements all over the European Union. When
:20:51. > :20:55.it comes to the Syrians you think everybody recognises the atrocities
:20:55. > :20:59.there. No Syrians have been sent back. But those countries who
:20:59. > :21:03.receive the most Syrians Germany and Sweden have not asked for help.
:21:03. > :21:07.I think they are coping with it so far. There has been no real cause
:21:07. > :21:13.to activate this temporary protection mechanism so far at
:21:13. > :21:18.least. Thank you very much indeed. Now the
:21:18. > :21:23.big development of the week on Syria's battlefield was the
:21:23. > :21:27.recapture of the town of Qusair by Assad Government forces. It is a
:21:27. > :21:37.fightal road hub that they couldn't afford to -- vital road hub that
:21:37. > :21:38.
:21:38. > :21:42.they couldn't afford it use. The most -- Hezbollah militia might
:21:42. > :21:47.have tipped it in the Government's favour. Syria's opposition has
:21:47. > :21:52.threatened to attack Hezbollah in Lebanon. Rockets have been fired in
:21:52. > :21:55.their strongholds in Baalbek and Beirut, where tensions are high and
:21:55. > :21:59.from where our very own reporter joins us.
:21:59. > :22:07.Is this job done from Hezbollah's point of view, the victory in
:22:07. > :22:11.Qusair? I think this is very difficult, really for Hezbollah.
:22:11. > :22:17.one sense it helped to win a victory in Qusair. The reports now
:22:17. > :22:25.that Hezbollah fighters are also moving now towards Aleppo that they
:22:25. > :22:28.will contribute to a new offensive by Assad's forces in that area too.
:22:28. > :22:32.But of course Hezbollah has been involved in the Syrian civil war
:22:32. > :22:35.now for quite a long time. It wasn't fully open about it until
:22:35. > :22:41.very recently, until the battle over Qusair really. Of course the
:22:41. > :22:44.reason for that, I suppose, is Hezbollah here in Lebanon doesn't
:22:44. > :22:48.define itself primarily as a Shi'ite organisation, even though
:22:48. > :22:54.it is. It defines itself as the resistance against Israel. Its job
:22:54. > :22:59.is to confront Israel, certainly not to fight fellow Muslims and
:22:59. > :23:03.fellow Arabs. What Hezbollah says now is it is not defending
:23:03. > :23:12.President Assad in Syria per se. What it says it is doing is
:23:12. > :23:19.defending itself against the rise in Syria of extreme Sunni groups,
:23:19. > :23:24.all qied da-type groups among the - - Al-Qaeda rebels, among the rebels,
:23:24. > :23:34.who they say will target groups like Hezbollah in the same way that
:23:34. > :23:35.
:23:35. > :23:38.Sunni groups have targeted Shi'ite groups in Iraq. That won't wash in
:23:38. > :23:41.the wider Lebanese public and I think certainly the prestige of
:23:42. > :23:46.Hezbollah in the region is already beginning to fall.
:23:46. > :23:50.The Syrian opposition says it is going to attack Hezbollah in
:23:50. > :23:54.Lebanon. Is that an idle threat or do you think it has already
:23:54. > :23:58.started? It certainly has already started. There have been a
:23:58. > :24:03.considerable number of rocket attacks in eastern Lebanon in the
:24:03. > :24:09.valley. Also an upsurge of fighting now for example in the northern
:24:09. > :24:14.city of Tripoli. We have seen today masked Sunni gunmen taking over the
:24:14. > :24:17.centre of the city, closing the shops there. Very much it seems in
:24:17. > :24:22.anger over what Hezbollah has been doing in Qusair.
:24:22. > :24:28.Thank you very much. With the next general election less than two
:24:28. > :24:31.years away the opposition has begun its slow policy striptease. Ed
:24:31. > :24:35.Balls earlier this week and today Labour Party leader, Ed Miliband,
:24:35. > :24:39.have begun to reveal a little more of what they will be offering
:24:39. > :24:43.voters. They are trying to convince people that they will be fiscally
:24:43. > :24:49.responsible and ready for tough decisions on welfare.
:24:49. > :24:53.But there are risks, not least that if they reveal too much others may
:24:53. > :24:55.steal their policies. Too little and nobody will take any notice.
:24:55. > :25:04.Here is our political editor to judge whether they have got the
:25:04. > :25:09.balance right? If the political scene is a market
:25:09. > :25:15.of ideas, Ed Miliband the trader is accused of not having as well
:25:16. > :25:20.stocked a store as these chaps. He's supposed to peddle old not
:25:20. > :25:23.fresh fruit. If he doesn't shift fiscal credibility his ideas on
:25:23. > :25:27.welfare will be another idea on the shelf. This morning, two years out
:25:27. > :25:31.from a general election the market of political ideas got a bit busier.
:25:31. > :25:38.Down the road from this market in Newham, East London, Ed Miliband
:25:38. > :25:42.unveiled new items. The biggest item of expenditure, alongside the
:25:42. > :25:46.National Health Service is the social security budget. The next
:25:46. > :25:52.Labour Government will have less money to spend. If we are going to
:25:52. > :25:59.turn our economy round, protect our NHS and build a stronger country we
:25:59. > :26:05.will have to be laser-focused on everything single pound we spend.
:26:05. > :26:09.Social security spending, vital as it is cannot be exempt from that
:26:10. > :26:14.discipline. So Ed Miliband would be trimming the welfare budget
:26:14. > :26:18.afterall. And after quite some years of opposing the coalition's
:26:18. > :26:22.welfare reforms. He would be doing it his way. He said that way would
:26:22. > :26:28.be very different from the Prime Minister's way. I will tell you
:26:28. > :26:33.there is a minority who don't work but should. He will tell you anyone
:26:33. > :26:36.looking for work is a skiver. I will tell you that we need to
:26:36. > :26:40.protect the dignity of work and make work pay. He will hit the low
:26:40. > :26:44.paid in work. I will tell you we do need to get the housing benefit
:26:44. > :26:49.bill down with a cap that works, but crucial low by investing in
:26:49. > :26:56.homes and tackling private landlords. He will make the problem
:26:56. > :00:00.worse by making people homeless and driving up the bill. Today he
3615285 > :00:09.announced a three-year cap on social security spending from 2015.
:00:10. > :00:10.
:00:10. > :27:04.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1614 seconds
:27:04. > :27:07.He also said a Labour Government would amend jobseeker's allowance
:27:07. > :27:12.to reflect tax paid when an individual has been in work. Labour
:27:12. > :27:16.would also give councils powers to negotiate with landlords, new lower
:27:16. > :27:20.rents. The money saved could be invested in house building. There
:27:20. > :27:25.would be subsidies for employers in order to boost wages and reduce the
:27:25. > :27:29.take up of tax credits. And also for parents of small children, if
:27:29. > :27:35.they don't prepare for work there will be sanctions.
:27:35. > :27:38.So there we have it. Against the backdrop of planes taking off Ed
:27:38. > :27:42.Miliband launched his new tougher welfare agenda. The question I
:27:43. > :27:47.wanted to ask was if his reforms don't work, will he cut to meet
:27:47. > :27:50.that cap. He didn't answer that question at all today, and until he
:27:50. > :27:55.does I think the credibility issue with Labour and welfare does still
:27:55. > :28:01.remain. This is a problem for them, in the
:28:01. > :28:07.most recent month this poll showed that David Cameron was trusted by
:28:07. > :28:10.37% of people to manage the economy, that's compared with 23% for Ed
:28:10. > :28:15.Miliband. To restore their fiscal credibility this week Labour
:28:15. > :28:18.pledged to match the coalition's spending plans for 2015. It is very
:28:18. > :28:23.difficult to get away from the fact that Labour is still going to have
:28:24. > :28:26.to make some tough choices in 2015. So these long-term policies saying
:28:26. > :28:31.we're structurally going to change the nature of the Welfare Bill, we
:28:31. > :28:34.are going to bring down the cost of housing benefit and reduce the
:28:34. > :28:38.amount we spend on tax credits. They are really important but never
:28:38. > :28:42.going to add up to the savings that you need to find on welfare.
:28:43. > :28:51.In the budget the Chancellor and now today Ed Miliband have said
:28:51. > :28:55.they want to target something called the A ME budget, annually
:28:55. > :28:59.managed expenditure. Over five years to 2012 this budget grew by
:28:59. > :29:05.�46 billion. Two thirds of this included pensions and working-age
:29:05. > :29:10.benefits, including housing been fit and tax credits. In total this
:29:10. > :29:15.budget is �350 billion of spending. That's half of all Government
:29:15. > :29:19.expenditure. It is so far been relatively protected. I think it is
:29:19. > :29:26.very unclear what this means, we don't know whether working-age
:29:26. > :29:30.benefits are going upwards when you trip out the effects of the
:29:30. > :29:36.recession. Some of the changes this Government have made and the last
:29:36. > :29:41.Labour Government have slowed it. It is not clear whether it is a
:29:41. > :29:44.really as implied deep cuts or not at all. This week the Miliband idea
:29:44. > :29:48.stall filled up. Interesting ideas that perhaps more people will
:29:48. > :29:52.question than buy outright just now. But two years out from a general
:29:52. > :29:55.election that is not a terrible trading position. Remember the
:29:55. > :30:00.young leader of the opposition Margaret Thatcher didn't have many
:30:00. > :30:04.items on show in the run up to the 1979 election, she should have been
:30:04. > :30:07.an expert, she was the daughter of a grocer.
:30:07. > :30:12.Tonight we heard that the Duke of Edinburgh had been admitted to
:30:12. > :30:16.hospital earlier in the day. Buckingham Palace said it was not
:30:17. > :30:21.an emergency admission, and the Duke would be having an exploratory
:30:21. > :30:25.operation tomorrow. The BBC's royal correspondent is here. How serious
:30:25. > :30:30.is this do you think? It is difficult to say. Exploratory
:30:30. > :30:33.operation, that is the phrase being used by Buckingham Palace, an
:30:33. > :30:40.exploratory operation which clearly has been called for by the doctors
:30:40. > :30:45.after first routine tests and then what the palace describes as
:30:45. > :30:50.investigations of the abdomen. I think it is unwise to speculate at
:30:50. > :30:55.this stage. We are led to believe it is nothing to do with his heart,
:30:55. > :31:00.he had a heart episode a few years ago or the bladder infection, there
:31:00. > :31:04.were two episodes of that last year. It is an exploratory operation on a
:31:04. > :31:09.man who in four days time will be 92 years old. Clearly that is quite
:31:09. > :31:14.challenging. It must be said it was not an emergency admission. He went
:31:14. > :31:17.in good spirits, he was at a Buckingham Palace garden party this
:31:17. > :31:21.afternoon and people who saw him there said you wouldn't think
:31:21. > :31:25.anything of wrong at all. He was cracking jokes and being his formal
:31:25. > :31:30.self. There will be an operation under general anaesthetic as we
:31:30. > :31:34.understand it, tomorrow. For the Queen now, more solo public duties?
:31:34. > :31:38.Yes, coming to the BBC indeed tomorrow. She will be fulfiling
:31:38. > :31:41.that engagment. A busy few week, Trooping the Colour on Saturday,
:31:41. > :31:45.and she will be doing those on her own. It is a statement of the
:31:45. > :31:51.obvious that it must be a rather anxious time for her.
:31:51. > :31:57.In its desire to trade with China is the Government leaving Britain's
:31:57. > :32:00.infrastructure more vulnerable to sieber attack? The parliamentary --
:32:00. > :32:05.cyber attack? The parliamentary intelligence and security
:32:05. > :32:09.commission issued a sharply-worded report today of Britain's dealings
:32:09. > :32:12.with a big Chinese telecommunications company. The
:32:12. > :32:17.Americans and Australians regard the company as a security risk. But
:32:17. > :32:21.the UK has allowed the company a big role in telecoms contracts,
:32:21. > :32:25.where is risk? Here is our science editor.
:32:25. > :32:29.It is the stark warning, telecommunications is the life
:32:29. > :32:34.blood of a successful economy. But we have reached the point where the
:32:34. > :32:38.need to protect our economic competitiveness is now so paramound
:32:38. > :32:42.mount that even national security concerns could -- paramount that
:32:42. > :32:49.even national security concerns could be compromised. Focusing so
:32:49. > :32:56.heavily on trade ties with China we could overlook the other side of
:32:56. > :33:00.the coin, the security risks in cyberspace. For MI6 cyber espionage
:33:00. > :33:04.is a growing anxiety. In today's report the MPs recognise the
:33:04. > :33:08.difficulty for Government in balancing that concern against its
:33:08. > :33:13.strong desire for inward investment from countries such as China.
:33:13. > :33:18.Today's report highlights the business relationship between
:33:18. > :33:21.Chinese telecoms giant Waway and British companies like BT. Its
:33:21. > :33:25.messages are primarily for Government. There is little doubt
:33:25. > :33:29.that China as a country goes in for hacking in a big way. It made it
:33:29. > :33:34.all the more important if you have a very major Chinese company, that
:33:34. > :33:39.happens to be the second largest telecommunications company in the
:33:39. > :33:44.world, that was a pretty useful test case to use. With 150,000
:33:44. > :33:47.employees and a turnover of around �20 billion, the company is a
:33:47. > :33:51.global force. But it is the company's close relationship with
:33:51. > :33:55.Beijing that unnerved some politicians. With multibillion
:33:56. > :33:59.pound deals between the company and British Telecom over the past
:33:59. > :34:03.decade, having been forged apparently without British
:34:03. > :34:07.Government oversight. We looked at how the decision to allow a Chinese
:34:07. > :34:11.company to become part of our critical national infrastructure
:34:11. > :34:15.was taken. To our shock and horror we discovered it was taken by
:34:15. > :34:18.cabinet officials who didn't even inform ministers never mind ask for
:34:19. > :34:24.their decision. That was very, very bad indeed. That must never happen
:34:24. > :34:34.again. There is no suggestion in the report that the company or BT
:34:34. > :34:43.
:34:43. > :34:45.have done anything wrong. Today Their official statement makes
:34:46. > :34:55.clear the company sees its relationship with the UK as
:34:56. > :35:05.
:35:05. > :35:11.Today's report says GCHQ should be given oversight of a cyber security
:35:11. > :35:16.centre in Oxfordshire set up and run by Huawei to allay fears over
:35:16. > :35:22.openness. This testing centre, known as "the cell" allows clients
:35:22. > :35:30.to check products before they buy. The staff who run it are employees
:35:30. > :35:36.of Huawei. Some say GCHQ employees should run it instead. One former
:35:36. > :35:41.security adviser said such deals recognise more than one big risks.
:35:41. > :35:44.Testing components or systems gives you a snapshot in time. It tells
:35:45. > :35:48.you how those components and system will operate in an artificial
:35:48. > :35:54.environment. Once those systems or components are employed in practice,
:35:54. > :35:58.in the real world, how they operate could change quite fundamentally.
:35:58. > :36:04.In the US anxiety over Huawei and the proksimity to the Chinese
:36:04. > :36:07.Government came to -- proksimity to the Chinese Government came to the
:36:07. > :36:12.House last year. The White House was reported to have included that
:36:12. > :36:17.there was no evidence that Huawei was spying on the US. Sloppy coding
:36:18. > :36:22.may have created vunabilities that could be exploited by dub
:36:22. > :36:26.vunerabilities that could be exploited by other parties.
:36:26. > :36:30.switches and routers, their products have a good reputation. BT
:36:30. > :36:34.and other companies have purchased those products. Over the last seven
:36:34. > :36:38.years there was no major security incidents. The United States are
:36:38. > :36:43.very concerned, possibly the UK parliament committee assumed that
:36:43. > :36:46.they needed to send a signal to Washington, see, we are also doing
:36:46. > :36:51.something about this problem. Government here attempted to move
:36:51. > :36:54.the emphasis away from cyber security fears. George Osborne
:36:54. > :37:00.stressed his personal priority remained increasing trade links
:37:00. > :37:03.with China. So with me now are a former
:37:04. > :37:10.Scotland Yard cyber security detective and now security
:37:10. > :37:13.consultant and the author of When China Rules The World. Are the MPs
:37:13. > :37:19.worried? Are they right to be worried about this? They are right
:37:19. > :37:22.to be concerned. The decisions that were made ten years ago in the when
:37:22. > :37:26.the contract was awarded. The report says there was no
:37:26. > :37:30.information available or mechanisms to look at it with the rigour that
:37:30. > :37:34.could be done now. It is right and proper and healthy that things are
:37:34. > :37:38.revisited, when they impact on critical infrastructure and
:37:38. > :37:45.national security. It is important, we mustn't represent the Huawei
:37:45. > :37:50.option as being an either/or choice. Their products are ubiquitous, and
:37:50. > :37:54.there is only one other company that could provide the whole set of
:37:54. > :38:01.infrastructure which is Ericson. It is not as if the ministers or
:38:01. > :38:05.Government have been provided with a choice of either/or? The company
:38:05. > :38:08.obviously is a quite legitimate company, nothing has been proven
:38:08. > :38:12.against them. What is the theoretical risk, what is it that
:38:13. > :38:18.people are concerned about in terms of the actual modalities about how
:38:18. > :38:23.this might weaken the UK's national infrastructure? Specifically in
:38:23. > :38:27.terms of communication. The communication element of critical
:38:27. > :38:34.national infrastructure is vulnerable to denial of service.
:38:34. > :38:39.And also espionage and eaves dropping. Also in the report itself
:38:39. > :38:43.published by the UK Intelligence Committee. GCHQ reporting to
:38:43. > :38:47.parliament said there are over one million lines of code in the
:38:47. > :38:50.platform and software used by way way. Vulnerability is a function of
:38:50. > :38:55.complexity. It is very difficult for anybody to go through that and
:38:55. > :39:00.say with any degree of certain toe that there are no vunabilities in
:39:00. > :39:07.there whether intention or inadvertant.
:39:07. > :39:13.Does this worry you or is it a case of Chino-phobia? There is such a
:39:13. > :39:20.thing and we are seeing a lot of it at the moment. If you recall two or
:39:20. > :39:25.three years ago do you remember all the issues of China manipulating
:39:25. > :39:29.its currency. Where did that go, we hardly hear that at all. This is
:39:29. > :39:34.the latest fashion, particularly strong in America. I'm not saying
:39:34. > :39:39.there isn't a problem. But I think it is, you know, greatly
:39:39. > :39:44.exaggerated. I must say I very much agree with the position taken by
:39:44. > :39:47.the Chancellor, which is the priority for Britain is to focus on
:39:47. > :39:52.much better trade relations with choin that. It is going to be so
:39:52. > :40:02.important -- China. It is going to be so important. The risk worth
:40:02. > :40:02.
:40:02. > :40:06.taking that something might be amiss here? Go into it with eyes
:40:06. > :40:10.open and take measures that should be taken. That shouldn't be an
:40:10. > :40:14.excuse not to have a relationship with Huawei, it is extreme low
:40:14. > :40:17.important and successful company. As was said it makes now extremely
:40:17. > :40:23.good equipment at very affordable prices. Its not just us that are
:40:23. > :40:28.interested in it. You know they are supplying many countries around the
:40:28. > :40:31.world now with this kind of stuff. To what extent do you think both of
:40:31. > :40:35.you that cyber security is something where everybody wants to
:40:35. > :40:41.play the victim, but nobody really wants to admit the extent to which
:40:41. > :40:51.they themselves are exploiting some of these technologies? Beautifully
:40:51. > :40:55.put. I mean this is a world of hypocrisy. I must say I'm sure the
:40:55. > :41:05.country that's most involved in cyber espionage is the United
:41:05. > :41:09.States. You know all the mood music we hear of course is American,
:41:09. > :41:12.particularly American criticism of China. But you know you can bet
:41:12. > :41:16.literally your bottom dollar that America is doing a hell of a lot of
:41:16. > :41:19.it to China. You know if you read between the lines or not sometimes
:41:19. > :41:25.between the lines there is an omission of this by the Americans.
:41:25. > :41:30.If everybody is at it, presumably part of that is trying to ensure
:41:30. > :41:33.your own protective security. What are our options, you mentioned that
:41:33. > :41:39.possibly Ericson are the only possible alternative providers. Is
:41:39. > :41:43.it the case that China with telecoms infrastructure is in a
:41:43. > :41:46.very dominant position. You get to the chip level and so many things
:41:46. > :41:51.embedded in the hardware. It is very difficult to take a route
:41:51. > :41:54.where there would be no involvement whatsoever. It is interesting in
:41:54. > :41:58.terms of the advance threat perspective of this and what has
:41:58. > :42:05.happened with the cyber. There is a lot of difficult chatter at the
:42:05. > :42:10.moment that is not always as well informed as it could be. The
:42:10. > :42:16.situations analogyies to what happened with the research for
:42:16. > :42:23.spliting the at tomorrow and after the test bombs were -- atom and
:42:23. > :42:30.after the test bombs were tested and it was clear the atom had been
:42:30. > :42:35.split. Over the years people have figured out how to do it. With the
:42:35. > :42:38.other threats it is clear there is a whole range of attack sectors
:42:38. > :42:44.against IT systems that weren't common knowledge.
:42:44. > :42:47.Thank you very much. Is there anything slightly unclean
:42:47. > :42:53.about the payday loan industry? That is the impression you might
:42:53. > :42:58.have got from Bolton Wanderers football fans. When a company
:42:58. > :43:02.called Quick Quid, they don't beat about the bush, offered the club a
:43:02. > :43:12.lucrative sponsorship deal there were howls of protests. Bolton's
:43:12. > :43:17.business managers were forced into a re-think.
:43:17. > :43:22.It is 1929, Bolton is bursting with pride. Bolton warders had just won
:43:22. > :43:29.the FA Cup Final for the third time that decade. There were many more
:43:29. > :43:33.glory days to come. The club may now be in the second tier. This is
:43:33. > :43:37.still a town full of pride for its team and protective of its
:43:37. > :43:40.reputation. It is one of the reasons why so many people here
:43:40. > :43:44.signed a petition to stop the sponsorship deal with Quick Quid.
:43:45. > :43:50.One of the people to sign it was Phil. I think it is out of order,
:43:50. > :43:53.people who work hard for their money, these people are sort of,
:43:53. > :43:58.you borrow �100 and basically they don't tell you the interest rates,
:43:58. > :44:02.I think the interest rates are extortionate. If Bolton Wanderers
:44:02. > :44:07.have this company sponsoring their team I think to be honest what sort
:44:07. > :44:11.of message does it give to children. Bolton Wanderers Football Club
:44:11. > :44:15.pride itself on its links with the community. When 5,000 people signed
:44:15. > :44:19.a petition calling on them to cancel the deal with Quick Quid
:44:19. > :44:25.felt they had no choice but to drop them as a sponsor. They admit they
:44:25. > :44:30.underestimated the strength of feeling here in Bolton.
:44:30. > :44:34.Take a walk down Bolton high street and you can see how the easy credit
:44:34. > :44:39.industry dominates the town. It is a similar story in many of the
:44:39. > :44:49.poorest parts of Britain. The annual turnover of payday loans has
:44:49. > :44:50.
:44:50. > :44:59.gone up from �220 million in 2010 to �860 million in 2012. The annual
:44:59. > :45:04.turnover of payday loans from �220 million in 2010, to �860 in 2012.
:45:04. > :45:09.There was as many as eight million payday loans in 2012, and 7 2,000
:45:09. > :45:12.companies are licensed to lend. Nearly 25,000 people have asked the
:45:12. > :45:20.Citizens Advice Bureau for help with a payday loan. One of those
:45:20. > :45:26.people is Andrew Masters, he borrowed �100 from a payday lender
:45:26. > :45:30.a year ago, now he owes �1,000 and the company is threatening him with
:45:30. > :45:34.the bailiffs. Surely you must have known you would have to pay a lot
:45:34. > :45:40.in interest? It was easy to get. You go to the banks and things and
:45:40. > :45:44.they turn you down. But that it was just easy, wasn't it. You know what
:45:44. > :45:49.I mean. Why did you need the money so badly? My girlfriend was
:45:49. > :45:54.pregnant. On our wages we couldn't afford it to buy stuff we needed
:45:54. > :45:57.for the baby. Councillor Chris Peacock organised the petition. For
:45:57. > :46:05.him this isn't just about politics. He's been supporting Bolton
:46:05. > :46:08.Wanderers all his life. As a kid I glue up with Bolton being sponsored
:46:08. > :46:15.by Reebok, it was over a decade they sponsored them with a close
:46:15. > :46:23.link to the town. I only ever wanted Reebok product its and
:46:23. > :46:30.trainers and tracksuits, everything had to be Reebok. I'm not saying
:46:30. > :46:34.kids are going out to want a payday loan, but it is that connection
:46:34. > :46:38.with the community and the sponsor and the communities reacting it.
:46:38. > :46:44.For me it was too uncomfortable. The credit industry says
:46:44. > :46:47.campaigners are ill-informed about how payday lending works.
:46:47. > :46:52.worries people that people are making a judgment based on a low
:46:52. > :46:55.level of damage. Making commercial decisions and in some cases moral
:46:55. > :47:01.and political decisions about the short-term lending market. There
:47:01. > :47:06.are standards in place, people like the product. It is legal. It is
:47:06. > :47:11.heavily regulated. It is simply that people have a natural
:47:11. > :47:13.inclination to oppose something and we are the flavour of the month.
:47:13. > :47:17.Campaigners say it shouldn't be left to the public to put the
:47:17. > :47:23.pressure on the industry. They want the Office of Fair Trading to act
:47:23. > :47:27.and the Government to do more to regulate the credit market.
:47:27. > :47:37.That's all we have time for. Time for a lie down, from all of us here
:47:37. > :47:42.
:47:42. > :47:45.good night. 25 degrees today, good night. 25 degrees today,
:47:45. > :47:49.similar temperatures tomorrow. Not the same low cloud like this
:47:49. > :47:52.morning. Higher-bayed cloud in the south could give one or two showers.
:47:52. > :47:56.The odd one over mountains, in the north many places with a dry day
:47:56. > :48:00.and a lot of sunshine. Lovely day for Northern Ireland, dry with
:48:00. > :48:03.sunnier skies towards the north. These showers over the Scottish
:48:03. > :48:07.mountains, very few and far between. Another warm day for the time of
:48:07. > :48:11.year. For the western side of Scotland. The odd shower over the
:48:11. > :48:15.northern Pennines, but sunny spells across much of northern England and
:48:15. > :48:20.the Midlands. Cloud coming into the south more thaned today. A stronger
:48:20. > :48:24.breeze by the afternoon as well spots of rain in the south-east.
:48:24. > :48:29.Lively in the afternoon in Cornwall. One or two thundery downpours
:48:29. > :48:34.possible. Very hit and miss. Wales should stay dry so temperatures
:48:34. > :48:38.typically around 22 degrees or so, could be locally 25. Always cooler
:48:38. > :48:42.around those North Sea coasts. That is heading into the weekend then.
:48:42. > :48:47.No major surprises, we will see a little bit more cloud around some
:48:47. > :48:51.eastern parts of England and Scotland but most places bright,
:48:51. > :48:54.warm and sunny. Temperatures over the weekend not as high as we are