:00:17. > :00:19.Tonight, what's bugging you? Or rather who? A top secret US spy
:00:19. > :00:21.programme has been gathering information from some of the
:00:21. > :00:29.biggest internet companies, and it is alleged, sharing it with the
:00:29. > :00:38.British Security Services. can't have 100% security and also
:00:38. > :00:42.then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. Also tonight, how do
:00:42. > :00:46.you live with cancer? In a few years half of us will get the
:00:46. > :00:51.disease at some point during our lifetimes. We hear the
:00:51. > :00:56.extraordinary story of a mother and daughter who have survived ovarian
:00:56. > :01:02.cancer. The man called the punk poet, John
:01:02. > :01:07.Cooper Clarke tells us why the Education Secretary is right about
:01:07. > :01:13.children reciting poetry by heart and gives us a few lines of his own.
:01:13. > :01:21.I knew a fella called frank, his wife was a bit of a skank, he wrote
:01:21. > :01:26.down her pin before doing her in and laughed all the way to the bank.
:01:26. > :01:31.Good evening, in the aftermath of the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby in
:01:31. > :01:35.Woolich. Some politicians have tried to push forward with what was
:01:35. > :01:37.formerly known as the communications data Bill. As a
:01:37. > :01:40.nation, like the United States, we are sensitive of anything that
:01:40. > :01:44.smacks of Big Brother spying on our private communications. Gentlemen
:01:44. > :01:49.do not open each other's male is how one former US Secretary of
:01:49. > :01:54.State once put it. But today it was revealed that gentlemen and
:01:54. > :01:57.gentlewomen at GCHQ may be taking advantage of a US secret spying
:01:58. > :02:03.programme called Prism to obtain information from internet companies.
:02:03. > :02:11.We have been examining the special relationship between Britain's GCHQ
:02:11. > :02:15.and its American counterpart, the National Security Agency.
:02:15. > :02:20.Over the past 36 hours there have been mushrooming allegations about
:02:20. > :02:23.the extent to which intelligence agencies in the US and the UK are
:02:23. > :02:29.covertly collecting information on their citizens. The National
:02:29. > :02:34.Security Agency, or NSA is a vast US wiretaping agency, whose job is
:02:34. > :02:38.to gather information. The agency has now been found out to be
:02:38. > :02:41.gathering information on the on- line activities of potentially the
:02:41. > :02:51.entire population. No surprise there, you might say, though others
:02:51. > :02:55.are shocked at the implication for individual privacy. It is startling
:02:55. > :02:59.news because we thought we had some idea of what President Bush was
:02:59. > :03:04.doing in the warrantless programmes in terms of obtaining domestic data,
:03:04. > :03:09.we knew a lot of continued under Obama. It turpbt out there is this
:03:10. > :03:13.six-year-old programme that grew up without anyone knowing it. It
:03:13. > :03:18.involves tapping in, fairly directly to the databases of the
:03:18. > :03:22.world's largest internet and communications companies. So what's
:03:22. > :03:26.being alleged? First came revelations in the Guardian of a
:03:26. > :03:31.secret order directing phone company Verizo to pass records to
:03:31. > :03:34.the NSA on millions of its customers. Though not the content
:03:34. > :03:37.of course themselves. Then last night the Washington Post claimed
:03:37. > :03:41.the Government's data mining operation goes far further. Through
:03:41. > :03:47.a programme called Prism. The existence of which US authorities
:03:47. > :03:49.have now confirmed. Four slides from what's in reality a very dull
:03:49. > :03:54.looking power point presentation have been released by the
:03:54. > :03:58.Washington Post. They give us some information on Prism, naming the
:03:58. > :04:08.Internet brands it says have joined and when. With Microsoft first in
:04:08. > :04:08.
:04:08. > :04:12.2007, then Yahoo, Google, Facebook, Paltalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL and
:04:12. > :04:16.Apple the most recent last year. Facebook say they don't know
:04:16. > :04:19.anything about a Prism programme, others say the same. Some deny they
:04:19. > :04:23.have given the Government direct access to their servers. It is
:04:23. > :04:27.important to them symbolically and for perhaps some other reasons to
:04:28. > :04:31.say you don't have your hooks straight into our server, there is
:04:31. > :04:39.another black box inbetween that we have knowledge of. The effect is
:04:39. > :04:43.the same, if you are sitting in Fort Mead the head of the security
:04:43. > :04:47.agency, you have push button access to the material that is in their
:04:47. > :04:52.server that fits the lawful search criteria. Some people following the
:04:52. > :04:57.issue closely suspected this kind of thing was going on. Having said
:04:57. > :05:00.that in the face of a lot of denials from the US Government and
:05:01. > :05:04.their allies that they were doing this kind of thing to see the
:05:04. > :05:08.smoking gun, if you like, the actual court order, the actual
:05:08. > :05:12.details of this Prism programme, it is quite surprising even for those
:05:12. > :05:19.people. The power point goes on to boast of the kinds of electronic
:05:19. > :05:26.communications it can spy on. Listing e-mail, chat, video voice,
:05:26. > :05:31.videos, photos, stored data VoIP, file transfers, video conferencing,
:05:31. > :05:34.notifications of target activity, social networking and cryptically,
:05:34. > :05:37.special requests. The big thing that has changed in the last two or
:05:37. > :05:41.three years, that means you need the co-operation of the technology
:05:41. > :05:45.companies to get access to some of this data is the fact that they
:05:45. > :05:51.have switched on encryption by default for their services. When
:05:51. > :05:54.you as a G mail or hotmail user connects to Microsoft servers now,
:05:54. > :05:57.by default the communication will be encrypted. It is no longer the
:05:57. > :06:02.case that intelligence agencies can listen in between you and the
:06:02. > :06:06.server. They have to go to the server to get the data. The UK take
:06:06. > :06:09.on this story emerged this afternoon, with further claims by
:06:09. > :06:15.the Guardian Newspaper that Britain's own electronic listening
:06:15. > :06:19.post, GCHQ, has also been gathering data through The Prisoner programme.
:06:19. > :06:23.GCHQ itself says it operates within a strict legal and policy framework,
:06:23. > :06:27.with rigorous oversight. The claims are already prompting opposition
:06:28. > :06:32.questions about the precise nature of the UK's relationship with Prism.
:06:32. > :06:36.Our generation was the generation that got on-line. We have seen this
:06:36. > :06:40.massive internet grow up and it is bringing us all so much more
:06:40. > :06:44.connectivity and all the benefits we have seen. Now we are starting
:06:44. > :06:49.to realise that we have sort of built a monster. This very same net
:06:49. > :06:56.if work can be used to monitor us better than George Orwell could
:06:57. > :07:01.ever have imagined. That is a sad thing to think about. But we now
:07:01. > :07:08.have a Big Brother. It actually isn't even a domestic Big Brother
:07:08. > :07:12.it is a foreign Big Brother. moral high ground matters to
:07:12. > :07:18.technology companies, because they need their customers to trust them.
:07:18. > :07:28.If, as some here are now suggesting, Prism is a snooper's charter by the
:07:28. > :07:28.
:07:28. > :07:31.back door, that trust is at risk. We have the author of Trading
:07:31. > :07:35.Secrets about the Intelligence Services, and Julian Huppert is a
:07:35. > :07:38.Lib Dem MP campaigning against the Communications Data Bill. GCHQ is
:07:38. > :07:42.really clear on this, very strong on this, they say they are take
:07:42. > :07:47.their obligations within the law very certificate why isly, in
:07:47. > :07:49.accordance with a strict -- seriously, in accordance with a
:07:49. > :07:54.strict policy framework and they don't break the law? That is what
:07:54. > :07:57.they are saying, I hope so. GCHQ do essential work, they do make us
:07:57. > :08:00.safe. There is always a question about the balances about what they
:08:00. > :08:05.should and shouldn't be allowed to do. The Communications Data Bill
:08:05. > :08:09.went far too far. We need it make sure there hasn't been any activity
:08:09. > :08:12.that is essentially trying to bypass the law. But looking for
:08:12. > :08:16.loopholes, like with tax issues. Bypass the law, if it was within
:08:16. > :08:20.the law, if it was within the law, however distasteful you may find it,
:08:20. > :08:24.is it perfectly OK for GCHQ to be involved with something called
:08:24. > :08:30.Prism? I think this is like the example of some of the tax
:08:30. > :08:34.avoidance people have happened. But they are not strictly legal but not
:08:34. > :08:37.moral, we wouldn't expect people to do it. It is a sticky subject,
:08:37. > :08:43.morally when it comes to terrorism, there are different questions there.
:08:44. > :08:49.But the questions of efficacy, does it work and stop another 9/11, or a
:08:49. > :08:53."severn"? That is absolutely the right d -- Or a 7/7?That is
:08:53. > :08:59.absolutely the question. The other issue is the US having the ability
:08:59. > :09:05.to look at what UK citizens are doing, any UK business that uses
:09:05. > :09:09.Gmail or hotmail are using these systems is available to the US
:09:09. > :09:14.Government, what are the safeguards and what can happen with that data.
:09:14. > :09:17.We heard President Obama reassuring people saying it is only American,
:09:17. > :09:22.sorry American citizens are protected from this, what about the
:09:23. > :09:26.rest of us. That is the him hypocrisy of the Communications
:09:26. > :09:28.Data Bill, then it would be under British rules and regulations, it
:09:28. > :09:31.is happening everywhere and the Americans are doing it? It is a
:09:31. > :09:35.shock the Americans are doing it. I don't think the fact that the
:09:35. > :09:38.Americans are doing something that we all find surprising and goes too
:09:38. > :09:41.far, it means we in Britain should try to do something further as well.
:09:41. > :09:44.I don't think it is an excuse to say the British Government should
:09:44. > :09:48.keep logs of every website you go to and some of these companies
:09:48. > :09:51.providing more data. What do you think they are looking for here.
:09:51. > :09:57.There is so much information out there, what's the needle in the
:09:57. > :10:01.haystack? I think that it's the case that the ability to data mine,
:10:01. > :10:05.to trawl through millions and millions of different pieces of
:10:05. > :10:08.communication has to some extent become a sort of law unto itself.
:10:08. > :10:12.The fact that it can be done is one of the reasons why it is being done.
:10:12. > :10:16.Sorry to interrupt, in a sense that chap in the film was saying Big
:10:16. > :10:20.Brother is already here, we have created this monster forks all the
:10:20. > :10:24.great things the Internet does, he -- monster, for all the great
:10:24. > :10:30.things the Internet does this is here? For all individuals to be
:10:30. > :10:34.able to communicate globally for any time of their choosing the
:10:34. > :10:38.Internet was greated now that freedom is being infringed in
:10:38. > :10:42.certain ways by being used against people who are ready to be free.
:10:42. > :10:46.One sends an e-mail thinking it is between you and the recipient,
:10:46. > :10:50.clearly it is not. How far though, people sitting at home thinking I
:10:50. > :10:53.have nothing to hide, what I put on Facebook, it might be embarrassing,
:10:53. > :10:56.pictures of people on the beach, but I have nothing to hide, what
:10:56. > :11:01.really is the problem here? I think most people would be concerned
:11:01. > :11:04.about all of this stuff coming out F we take the web logging, if
:11:04. > :11:07.somebody goes to an abortion counselling website, something
:11:07. > :11:12.about divorce or depression, that is quite sensitive information they
:11:12. > :11:15.wouldn't want everybody to know. The NSA is not likely to be
:11:15. > :11:19.interested in that stuff? Once you collect the data, proposed in the
:11:19. > :11:23.UK, once you collect that data there is a risk it can leak out and
:11:23. > :11:26.people get access to it. It is a question of trust isn't it, that is
:11:26. > :11:31.the real issue. We just don't want Big Brother to be looking at our
:11:31. > :11:34.mail in any sense? It is trust in two things, it is trust in the
:11:34. > :11:41.companies that are our providers. It is also trust in Government.
:11:41. > :11:45.Clearly the NSA is the world's leading signals intelligence agency.
:11:45. > :11:49.It is a key part of the American intelligence apparatus. It is going
:11:49. > :11:52.to take a lot for the White House to be able to convince Americans
:11:53. > :11:56.that as President Obama said we're not listening to your phone calls.
:11:56. > :12:00.He said it clearly, whether people believe him will be another thing.
:12:00. > :12:04.I wonder how surprised you were about this, the one thing that
:12:04. > :12:08.struck me that is surprising is this has come in some way from the
:12:08. > :12:15.NSA itself. You don't get leaked documents talking about that. No
:12:15. > :12:19.such agency is what people used to say NSA stood for? The NSA is a
:12:19. > :12:26.tight low- guarded institution. It was undoubted -- tight low- guarded
:12:26. > :12:29.institution, it was undoubtedly the most garden of the the American
:12:29. > :12:39.agencies. Listening to the Washington Post earlier today, the
:12:39. > :12:41.
:12:41. > :12:45.source expects to be exposed. He is prepared to be exposed. Given what
:12:45. > :12:48.happened to Bradley Manning that could be a harsh thing. Do you
:12:48. > :12:52.think this will change how we use the Internet. People will think is
:12:52. > :12:55.somebody going to read the stuff? hope people will be more conscious
:12:56. > :13:00.of what happens. Some of the messages aren't as proift as they
:13:00. > :13:05.are. We have so much more we -- private as they are. We have so
:13:05. > :13:08.much more to understand, we have to understand what GCHSQ is on about,
:13:08. > :13:11.and about cyber security, what should we say to British
:13:11. > :13:15.individuals and companies about how to use these services. Should they
:13:15. > :13:19.be far, far more careful. It is really important we don't break the
:13:19. > :13:22.safety we have here, that our bank systems continue to be safe. I hope
:13:22. > :13:26.we will have a parliamentary inquiry, I have already spoken to
:13:26. > :13:30.the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee to see if we can
:13:30. > :13:38.have a look at it on cyber security, this can be absolutely critical, if
:13:38. > :13:41.the US can do it there may be other countries as well. In a few years
:13:41. > :13:44.time the National Health Service faces a herculean challenge
:13:44. > :13:48.according to Macmillan cancer support, almost half of us can
:13:48. > :13:51.expect to get cancer during our lifetimes. Advances in treatments
:13:51. > :13:55.means many of us will survive. Here is the catch, the better the
:13:55. > :14:00.treatments, the longer many of us will live with either the disease
:14:00. > :14:05.or its consequences. It is the news that none of us wants to hear, but
:14:05. > :14:09.half of us will. Macmillan Cancer Support estimates nearly half of
:14:09. > :14:14.the UK population in 2020 will self-cancer at some point in their
:14:14. > :14:20.lives. That is up from under a third of people in 1992. The growth
:14:20. > :14:26.seems connected to the better life expectancy, as the population ages,
:14:26. > :14:31.the incidence of cancer rises. It is not all bad news. In 1992, 21%
:14:31. > :14:39.of those who had cancer did not die from the disease. This increased to
:14:39. > :14:43.35% in 2010 and it was predicted to rise to 38% in 2020. Greater focus
:14:43. > :14:47.on early diagnosis and advances in treatments and care are responsible
:14:47. > :14:50.for the improvements. But many of the physical and mental
:14:50. > :14:54.consequences of cancer continue long after remission. As more of us
:14:54. > :15:00.get and beat cancer, the NHS will be put under increasing pressure
:15:01. > :15:06.not only to prevent and treat the disease, but to support survivors
:15:06. > :15:11.too. With me now are Noel lean Young who was working as a
:15:11. > :15:17.Macmillan clinical nurse when in August 2000 she was told her 19-
:15:17. > :15:22.year-old daughter Hannah had ovarian cancer. Months after her
:15:22. > :15:25.daughter's treatment began Noel lean herself was diagnosed with the
:15:25. > :15:30.disease. You were 19 and a student and suddenly you were told you have
:15:30. > :15:33.this terrible disease and also a very, very severe form of it. I'm
:15:33. > :15:36.wondering, it must have been a terrible shock? It was a complete
:15:36. > :15:40.shock. Cancer is one of those things you never really think will
:15:40. > :15:43.happen to you. You may be expecting it to happen to somebody you know,
:15:43. > :15:47.I don't think you ever really think it is going to happen to you
:15:47. > :15:57.particularly aged 19 when you are a student and you are just out to
:15:57. > :16:00.
:16:00. > :16:04.enjoy life and learn and all that. You were as Macmillan nurse were
:16:04. > :16:09.with cancer patients every day, it must have been a shock for it to
:16:09. > :16:13.strike home? Particularly as I was a gynaecological specialist nurse,
:16:13. > :16:19.I treated people with ovarian cancer. It was a really strange
:16:19. > :16:23.twist of fate almost. And Hannah it was very advanced, it was 3C which
:16:23. > :16:28.is technically pretty much almost the end of the road actually. The
:16:28. > :16:32.treatment was what pretty horrible? It was pretty tough. I had fairly
:16:32. > :16:37.major surgery and the cancer had spread to part of my bowel and
:16:37. > :16:43.bladder and other parts of my abdomen. I followed up with
:16:43. > :16:48.chemotherapy. It had a very good outcome, fortunately I'm a survivor
:16:48. > :16:51.now. It has been many years in remission. So it is looking very
:16:51. > :16:54.positive. You actually knew the team that was involved and were
:16:54. > :16:58.consulted in the middle of the operation, is that right? They
:16:58. > :17:02.started the surgery, because they thought it was a large cyst and
:17:03. > :17:09.then they realised it was cancer so they came and asked me for
:17:09. > :17:13.permission to do some more surgery. Then Hannah had consented for
:17:13. > :17:16.because it was vital that they cleared as much disease as possible.
:17:16. > :17:22.Right in the middle of the operation. With your daughter on
:17:22. > :17:26.the operating table? Yeah.And then, once you were clear there was going
:17:26. > :17:31.to be a family holiday and you were all going to go away and then?
:17:31. > :17:34.then just two weeks before the family holiday I realised I wasn't
:17:34. > :17:39.feeling too well, I went along to the doctor and I said I'm not
:17:39. > :17:43.feeling too well. She said she would send me straight for a scan
:17:43. > :17:47.and said there was a cyst on one of my ovaries. And I saw the
:17:47. > :17:55.consultant I worked with and he said oh we will need to have you in
:17:55. > :18:00.for surgery straight away. And I said no we're going on holiday. So
:18:01. > :18:04.I did. I reasoned with myself that if I was going to have to have
:18:05. > :18:12.surgery and chemotherapy that holiday would be delayed and that I
:18:12. > :18:16.would rather have that holiday and then face whatever. You are both
:18:16. > :18:19.survivors, I wondered how, the effect of this must have changed
:18:19. > :18:25.you though? It is difficult to know what the path would have been if
:18:25. > :18:28.you haven't had this, it must have changed you? I think so. Especially
:18:28. > :18:32.immediately, because you feel euphoric and quite excited that you
:18:32. > :18:38.are still here, that you are still alive, that you have got through it.
:18:38. > :18:43.I think as time goes on life becomes more and more normal. But
:18:43. > :18:50.then late effects and some of the health effects of treatment there
:18:50. > :18:56.is almost a constant reminder. But you do, I think, really feel quite
:18:56. > :18:59.vibrant about life for a long time. I don't think that really ever goes
:18:59. > :19:03.away again. Presumably if half of us are going to have cancer and the
:19:03. > :19:05.other half of us are going to know somebody who has cancer, we will
:19:05. > :19:09.either go through what you went through or have to support somebody.
:19:09. > :19:11.I wondered in terms of being a survivor, what are the things that
:19:11. > :19:15.have changed. Is that something that the National Health Service is
:19:15. > :19:19.going to look at? It is not just the treatment, it is not just the
:19:19. > :19:23.medical stuff it is dealing with people like you afterwards?
:19:23. > :19:27.Absolutely, I think actually support as a survivor is really
:19:27. > :19:31.important. At the point at which I was treated, it is a few years ago.
:19:31. > :19:36.When I had finished my treatment you very much feel you have been
:19:36. > :19:40.sent out into the world alone. It can feel quite frightening, because
:19:40. > :19:46.you finish your treatment you get used to going to hospital every
:19:46. > :19:51.week and being very supported and cocooned and when you set off it is
:19:51. > :19:56.quite an unnerve feeling. No longer have that medical support all the
:19:56. > :20:01.time. There is a lot of stuff now about survivorship, and you are
:20:01. > :20:05.involved in that. What sort of things are needed by people who
:20:05. > :20:09.have gone through this and to their delight have survived, but then
:20:09. > :20:14.face other problems afterwards? have identified people feel
:20:14. > :20:19.abandoned and they can often feel helpless and hopeless after their
:20:19. > :20:24.treatment ends, so we have been working on looking at what we can
:20:24. > :20:30.put in place to help them recover, so how do we help them rehabilitate.
:20:30. > :20:34.That may be issues looking at work and finance, but it may also be
:20:34. > :20:38.issues looking at their lifestyle. Because we have identified that
:20:38. > :20:41.physical activity can be very important in helping people to
:20:42. > :20:44.recover. Do people also think differently about their bodies,
:20:45. > :20:49.because there has been this bit of it which has turned against and
:20:49. > :20:54.become the enemy. That's a very difficult thing to deal with in
:20:54. > :21:00.your head? Emotionally we both found the emotional impact a couple
:21:00. > :21:04.of years after diagnosis. For Hannah it meant a change of career
:21:04. > :21:09.and likewise for me. I sort of realised that I couldn't be a
:21:09. > :21:15.clinical nurse specialist any more and deal with this on a daily basis.
:21:15. > :21:20.So I looked at using the knowledge of having had cancer and my
:21:20. > :21:23.clinical knowledge in a way to help other people to survive and survive
:21:23. > :21:29.better. Just the final thought, talking and sharing your stories
:21:29. > :21:34.with other people, does that help you as well as them? Gosh I don't
:21:34. > :21:39.know! OK, I will leave you to puzzle that, thank you for sharing
:21:39. > :21:43.your stories with us tonight. He was one of the big names of the
:21:43. > :21:49.punk scene and now he's become a presidentant about schoolchildren
:21:49. > :21:52.learning by rote, we are not talking about Michael Gove but the
:21:52. > :21:56.called punk-poet John Cooper Clarke. He agrees with the Education
:21:56. > :22:01.Secretary about learning lines by heart. He has lived long enough to
:22:01. > :22:05.see his verses included in the national curriculum. Among his
:22:05. > :22:12.admirers are Alex Turner from The Artist, and Plan B. As he prepares
:22:12. > :22:15.for his -- the Artic Monkeys. And he prepares for his tour. This
:22:15. > :22:19.contains bad language. "things are going to get worse nurse, things
:22:19. > :22:23.are going to get rotten, make it reverse, I'm trying to remember
:22:23. > :22:27.everything I forgotten. I was a menace in the box and good in the
:22:27. > :22:33.air, now I can't get up from an easy chair. The doctor told me, oh
:22:33. > :22:38.yeah, things will get worse ". the match stick man from LS Lowri
:22:38. > :22:42.country, he started out reciting poetry with the punks, and now
:22:42. > :22:49.topping the bill at the London Palladium the sway Sammy Davies
:22:49. > :22:52.junior and Sinatra used to. # Good authors who used to know
:22:52. > :22:56.better words # Now only use four-letter words
:22:56. > :23:00.# Writing prose # Anything goes
:23:00. > :23:04.It is the apex of my career I guess. Sunday night at the London
:23:05. > :23:09.Palladium. All them people from the past, where are you going to read
:23:09. > :23:13.this poetry then? Sunday night at the London Palladium? Yes. Is it
:23:13. > :23:17.daunting to follow them or bring it on? I wouldn't like to go on
:23:17. > :23:27.straight after them! I'm glad there has been a couple of decades
:23:27. > :23:27.
:23:27. > :23:36.inbetween. # Driver borrowed care
:23:36. > :23:41.# Yellow socks and a pink caf VAT # Nothing la-de-da. John Cooper
:23:41. > :23:49.Clarke has had top 40 singles and albums. He was never a perfect fit
:23:49. > :23:52.with the punk mill your. -- milure.
:23:52. > :23:56.Presumably it took some surviving on stage, because there was all
:23:56. > :24:04.that spitting and what not going on? Yeah that was terrible, because
:24:04. > :24:11.I was wearing suits so I didn't have the kind of money that would
:24:11. > :24:21.run to getting a new suit every week. That's when I started wearing
:24:21. > :24:21.
:24:21. > :24:27.a leather jacket, you know. Wipe clean? Wipe with a damp cloth!
:24:27. > :24:34."I will have you in for disturbing the police. Your feet won't touch
:24:34. > :24:39.the floor. Don't be giving me what for. I'll give you what for. Do I
:24:39. > :24:47.look like a...don't answer that, we are the Pleb Squad, we are looking
:24:47. > :24:50.for a thwart!". The rat-at-tat delivery is changeless, but the
:24:50. > :24:54.Palladium crowd might see Clarke with book in hand for some of the
:24:54. > :24:58.night. I have to read it now because it is all new stuff really
:24:58. > :25:03.until such time as I have learned it Michael Gove-style, off by heart,
:25:03. > :25:09.I have to read it off the sheet. And what do you think of Mr Gove's
:25:09. > :25:14.attitude to poetry, he seems to favour route learning? I'm right
:25:14. > :25:16.behind him on this. It didn't do me any harm. It is the only way to
:25:17. > :25:24.learn it. They are more interested now that pupils understand what it
:25:24. > :25:27.is about. Really that is not what poetry is about, it is not
:25:27. > :25:32.something to be solved. Do you know what I mean. You are better off
:25:32. > :25:35.really learning it off by heart and then 30 years later you might get
:25:35. > :25:41.some inkling what it's about. That stuff was written by 35-year-old
:25:41. > :25:46.men, you know, how is a ten-year- old going to understand that.
:25:46. > :25:51.# Now heaven knows # Anything goes
:25:51. > :25:56.If you have green ink, prepare to spill it now. Johnny Clarke is even
:25:56. > :26:01.on the national curriculum. "let me be your vacuum cleaner
:26:01. > :26:06.breathing in your dust. Let me by your Morris Marina I will never
:26:06. > :26:13.dust. If you like your coffee pot, let me be your coffee pot. You call
:26:13. > :26:20.the shots, I want to be yours." The amount of people who said it
:26:20. > :26:25.was read at their wedding. It is to modern weddings what Always Look On
:26:25. > :26:30.The Bright Side of Life is to humanist funerals. An honour?I
:26:30. > :26:34.couldn't be happier about the fact that my work is being rammed down
:26:34. > :26:39.the reluctant throats of schoolchildren on a daily basis.
:26:39. > :26:45.That's success. I like to think there is more to my stuff than just
:26:45. > :26:48.a string of obskenties, you are rhyming obscenities, I like to
:26:48. > :26:54.think it has something else to offer than that. Through it all,
:26:54. > :27:00.through the spitle-flecked punk venues, through his commercial work
:27:00. > :27:04.when the threat of a passive nut allergy was never far away.
:27:04. > :27:09.Stick them on your thumb, stick them on your ear holes and your
:27:09. > :27:16.boots. The Clarke sensibility has remained intact, that and the look.
:27:16. > :27:21.Your look is very distinctive. Thanks. Much imitated.That Ron
:27:21. > :27:27.Wood I have to have a word with him about this. He has nicked it,
:27:27. > :27:34.hasn't he? Hook line and sinker. And Keith Richards! I think Johnny
:27:34. > :27:39.Depp. He owes me one for Edward Scissorhands.
:27:39. > :27:47."Don't make me bloody look". John Cooper Clarke may never make Poet
:27:47. > :27:53.Laureate, on the other hand John Bethchimen never got on the
:27:53. > :27:57.sopranos. Does Clarke have a philosophy of poetry. I do write
:27:57. > :28:07.some introverted stuff. I read it and think what's the point of this
:28:07. > :28:08.
:28:08. > :28:12.stuff! Do you know what I mean. I think as soon as you start charging
:28:12. > :28:16.admission fees then the burden of proof is on you. Like I say you
:28:16. > :28:22.have to send people out of there with a smile on their face.
:28:22. > :28:27."I knew a fella called Frank, his wife was a bit of a skank. He wrote
:28:27. > :28:32.down her pin before doing her in, and laughed all the way to the
:28:32. > :28:36.bank"! So to the Palladium. One in the eye for Clarke's doubters. He's
:28:36. > :28:39.making his last-minute preparations. Have you decided how you are going
:28:39. > :28:43.to make your entrance, trap door? They have got one of them haven't
:28:43. > :28:47.he this. You could pop up through there? They have got one of them,
:28:47. > :28:51.thanks for pointing it out. I have narrow shoulders, I can't see
:28:51. > :28:55.anything going wrong, the puff of smoke!
:28:55. > :29:02."euthanasia that sounds good, a neutral alpine neighbourhood then
:29:02. > :29:07.back to Britain all dressed in wood. Things were going to worse
:29:07. > :29:17.apparently." John Cooper Clarke looking on the bright side of life.
:29:17. > :29:17.
:29:17. > :30:25.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 68 seconds
:30:25. > :30:28.That's all tonight, Jeremy is back The emphasis is on dry and sunny
:30:28. > :30:32.weather. Sunshine almost everywhere on Saturday. Cloud off the North
:30:32. > :30:36.Sea eventually on a fairly brisk north-eastly wind. Northern Ireland
:30:36. > :30:39.a beautiful day, the odd patch of fog lapping around the coast maybe.
:30:40. > :30:44.North-east Scotland cool and cloudy as well. The odd mountain shower
:30:44. > :30:49.here and there. For much of Scotland it is a dry day with sunny
:30:49. > :30:52.spells. Temperatures up to the low 20s in many places. From the
:30:52. > :30:56.Yorkshire coast into East Anglia we could see things turning grey and
:30:56. > :31:00.cool through the afternoon in that brisk wind off the North Sea. As we
:31:00. > :31:04.head further west we are back into the warm sunshine once again.
:31:04. > :31:07.Fantastic for the beaches of south- west England and for Wales too. We
:31:07. > :31:10.actually saw the highest temperature on Friday across North
:31:10. > :31:14.West Wales up to 24. I think there will be somewhere across this part
:31:14. > :31:17.of the world that could see similar temperatures during Saturday as
:31:17. > :31:23.well. Further afield similar temperatures in Paris, but an
:31:23. > :31:29.increasing risk in thundery showers. Spoiling proceedings they French
:31:29. > :31:33.Open tennis. The today shower for Rome and Athens. Lisbon wet for a