:00:13. > :00:16.Tonight the crisis in care for the elderly, the crisis on your
:00:16. > :00:23.doorstep. While many disabled and elderly people do receive a good
:00:23. > :00:33.service at home, others are treated in ways which seem inhumane and
:00:33. > :00:41.
:00:41. > :00:46.Eing -- England's Care Minister talk about a scheme to incentivise
:00:46. > :00:50.care. What can he do about it? Nick Clegg thought he killed a
:00:50. > :00:54.called snooper's charter, but we reveal a new push by Labour and
:00:54. > :00:59.Conservatives to give our spooks more power. In the category of
:00:59. > :01:03.medicine and sciences. The 16-year- old who has been called a superstar
:01:03. > :01:08.of science for developing a test for pancreatic cancer, we will hear
:01:08. > :01:15.what motivated him and ask whether his success could make science more
:01:15. > :01:24.popular in school. Brodie Murdoch is divorcing wind --
:01:24. > :01:34.Rupert Murdoch is divorcing his wife, who will protect him from pie
:01:34. > :01:37.
:01:37. > :01:41.attacks. We will be talking about making stuff up and writing it down.
:01:41. > :01:44.Good evening, here is a glimpse into your future or that of someone
:01:44. > :01:49.you know and love. In old age health problems and disability
:01:49. > :01:53.confine you to your home, perhaps to your bed. Care workers look
:01:53. > :01:57.after you, but unluckily for you, the system according to the
:01:57. > :02:00.Government minister in charge in England, can incentivise poor care,
:02:00. > :02:07.low wages and neglect. There is a crisis of care delivered at home.
:02:07. > :02:13.Some of the shocking scenes that follow bear out that analysis.
:02:13. > :02:23.Muriel Price is 83 years old, she has been waiting 45-minutes for her
:02:23. > :02:35.
:02:35. > :02:42.Incontinent she has been lying in bed for 13 hours as her carer was
:02:42. > :02:47.nearly one hour late. This footage was obtained by Muriel's grandson,
:02:47. > :02:52.who set up a CCTV operation to monitor his grandmother in case she
:02:52. > :02:57.fell. He didn't expect the cameras would film her in such distress.
:02:57. > :03:01.Muriel's is just one care users' story. The company responsible for
:03:01. > :03:11.her care was Mosaic, in a statement it said it was an award-winning
:03:11. > :03:26.
:03:26. > :03:30.Muriel's family is not alone in feeling let down. A recent report
:03:30. > :03:38.by the regulator, the Care Quality Commission, suggested that a
:03:38. > :03:43.quarter of home care was failing to meet basic standards. Social Care
:03:43. > :03:48.Minister, Norman Lamb, says this is an industry in crisis. So he held a
:03:48. > :03:52.summit today of the Department of Health. In the room care providers,
:03:52. > :03:57.unions, charities and local Government. At this table they
:03:57. > :04:00.talked about the lack of dignity given to those being cared for. For
:04:00. > :04:04.example when carers don't ask the elderly what they want for
:04:04. > :04:07.breakfast. And they discussed the lack of training for carers. What
:04:07. > :04:11.the minister will have discovered in that room is that there was an
:04:11. > :04:15.awful lot of agreement. And of course what they all agree on is
:04:15. > :04:20.there isn't enough money, care workers say the providers don't Kay
:04:20. > :04:27.them enough. The providers say the authorities don't pay them enough.
:04:27. > :04:31.And local authorities want more funding from central Government.
:04:31. > :04:34.Did Norman Lamb promise any more money today? If you look at the
:04:34. > :04:38.economy there is little hope of any more entering the system. It really
:04:38. > :04:42.is a political question. We will continue to campaign for that could
:04:42. > :04:45.be the case. If that money doesn't materialise? Then we have real
:04:45. > :04:50.questions to ask about the sustainability of the home care
:04:50. > :04:55.sector for the future. Was the elephant in the room today funding?
:04:55. > :04:59.Certainly. There is an issue with the consumate resource that is
:04:59. > :05:06.available for care and support, not just home care, obviously across
:05:06. > :05:11.the whole system. A report from 2011 estimates that 219,000 direct
:05:11. > :05:16.care workers are being paid below the minimum wage. AIDS UK estimates
:05:16. > :05:19.that there will be an �800 million shortfall in social care funding
:05:19. > :05:25.this year, and local Government spending on older people's home
:05:25. > :05:29.care was reduceed by �148 million last year. Some of Muriel's carers
:05:29. > :05:33.behaved unprofessionally. But unions say most carers are
:05:33. > :05:37.dedicated and struggle to survive on the wages being offered. These
:05:37. > :05:41.are the lowest paid of the lowest paid. Many of them are paid on the
:05:41. > :05:45.minimum wage, but when you take account of not getting paid for
:05:45. > :05:48.travel time, not getting paid for times when they are waiting around.
:05:48. > :05:50.They are dropping below the minimum wage. Many are on zero hours
:05:50. > :05:55.contracts, which means they don't know what they are going to earn
:05:55. > :05:57.from one week to the next. Muriel is now being looked after in
:05:57. > :06:03.residential care. But ministers fear that many more elderly people
:06:03. > :06:11.are suffering. That the next big abuse scandal could be in the home
:06:12. > :06:15.care sector. I'm joined by the Care Minister Norman Lamb, Joan Bakewell
:06:15. > :06:18.a former Government adviser for the elderly, and the chief executive
:06:18. > :06:23.for the UK Home Care Association. That story is really appalling?
:06:23. > :06:27.is a familiar story. It is familiar? Oh yes. It was abundantly
:06:27. > :06:30.clear three years ago when I was the voice of older people for the
:06:30. > :06:34.Government. People wrote to me about the circumstances their
:06:34. > :06:37.relations were living in. You raise the issue and the right noises are
:06:37. > :06:41.made and nothing changes. It is going to get worse, and people are
:06:41. > :06:45.going to die and eventually someone will have to go to jail. These are
:06:45. > :06:50.going to be terrible circumstances. With an increased population and
:06:50. > :06:53.there is no career structure for caring. It is low wages, high
:06:53. > :06:58.turnover, no career prospects and very depressed work force. The fact
:06:58. > :07:02.that some of them are dedicated is a miracle of human kindness. Do you
:07:02. > :07:07.see that when the people that you deal with, do you see that picture?
:07:07. > :07:10.I recognise the picture about low pay. I think that is something we
:07:10. > :07:15.absolutely have to deal with. However, over half a million people
:07:15. > :07:19.receive care at home and the vast majority of that is really good and
:07:19. > :07:23.very liberating for them and entables them to remain at home. We
:07:23. > :07:28.do need to keep it in context. Indeed, but the company involved in
:07:28. > :07:33.this case is a member of your organisation, I just wanted to know
:07:33. > :07:39.if you had any sense of how many people in your organisation are not
:07:39. > :07:42.up to snuff, not doing it right? They have to sign up to a Code of
:07:42. > :07:45.Practise to join. This sort of behaviour by care workers
:07:45. > :07:55.contravenes that. One of the things we have to think about is whether
:07:55. > :07:59.
:07:59. > :08:04.that membership can continue. said that 74% met all standards but
:08:05. > :08:08.that means 24% didn't? If you look at the CQC report, I'm not
:08:08. > :08:12.condoning it, but a quarter failed on one standard. They failed.They
:08:12. > :08:16.failed on one standard. They failed? It is not good enough, well,
:08:16. > :08:20.yeah, OK. The buck stops with you, doesn't it.
:08:20. > :08:24.You defined it as a crisis, how long do you wish to preside over a
:08:24. > :08:29.crisis? That is why I'm trying to take some action. I had met with
:08:29. > :08:32.care workers who work in people's homes and they told me about some
:08:32. > :08:36.of the really disturbing things that happen. I have talked to lots
:08:36. > :08:40.of people who have received care at home and I felt we needed to bring
:08:40. > :08:43.people together to really discuss. These are quite profound issues and
:08:43. > :08:47.the truth is that no Government of any political persuasion in a
:08:47. > :08:50.position at the moment to throw an enormous amount of extra money at
:08:50. > :08:53.the problem. So we have got to think of smarter ways of using the
:08:53. > :08:59.money. One of the things we have got to do is bring health and
:08:59. > :09:04.social care together. It is race Krayy, we have these two -- crazy,
:09:04. > :09:07.we have these two silos and we need to be smarter about bringing it
:09:08. > :09:11.together. Do you think money is part of the problem? The system is
:09:11. > :09:14.under enormous pressure. It is getting worse, we are getting older,
:09:14. > :09:18.austerity is biting, counsellings are complaining and so on?
:09:18. > :09:22.projections are alarming. That is why we have to think afresh. It has
:09:22. > :09:27.to be a collaboration between family, your local community and
:09:27. > :09:31.the statutory services. Statutory services supporting people to build
:09:31. > :09:35.their resilience to help them manage at home. But I think you
:09:35. > :09:37.know there are things that we have to do. We are consulting very soon
:09:38. > :09:42.on introducing much more effective corporate accountability. Because I
:09:42. > :09:46.think you know if you are making a profit out of care which is fine,
:09:46. > :09:52.there has to be accountability that goes with it. That is missing at
:09:52. > :10:00.the moment. Winter bourne View the scandal of people with learn
:10:00. > :10:04.daiblts being abused, what happened to the company or the people there,
:10:04. > :10:07.nothing. Who facilitated that abuse. We have to address corporate
:10:07. > :10:11.accountability. Much more difficult in people's individual homes isn't
:10:11. > :10:19.it? You are at your most vulnerable behind a closed front door with a
:10:19. > :10:23.one-to-one situation. But out there in London with a dedicated care
:10:23. > :10:26.worker, and watching him with the relationship he had with people
:10:26. > :10:29.he's looking after, that was inspiring. How do you drive up
:10:29. > :10:32.standards without making it so much that families can't afford it?
:10:32. > :10:37.have to agree there is not much more money going into the system.
:10:37. > :10:45.We have to think laterally with new ideas. I think we need to revise
:10:45. > :10:49.the view we have as caring as a profession. With training, status
:10:49. > :10:54.and a decent wage. With ways of behaving that don't require you to
:10:54. > :10:59.rush from one home to the next. won't get that if you pay the
:10:59. > :11:03.minimum wage or less than it because you don't pay travel?
:11:03. > :11:07.isn't the only thing in life, and the people who do the job speak of
:11:07. > :11:17.the reward of doing it. One of the things you mentioned is career
:11:17. > :11:17.
:11:17. > :18:56.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 458 seconds
:18:56. > :19:00.In terms of what he has done, how do you rate the enthusiasm and the
:19:00. > :19:06.way he has tackled this? I think the enthusiasm is inspirational.
:19:06. > :19:12.It's so fabulous to see a young man like Jack, or my PhD students
:19:12. > :19:17.working so hard with such a multi- faceted approach. What is wonderful
:19:18. > :19:20.about the approach is he's using engineering and biophysics with
:19:20. > :19:23.traditional medicine. That interplay is becoming important.
:19:23. > :19:28.Early detection can make a huge difference. We are not there yet.
:19:28. > :19:31.It is a really interesting test you can apply not just to pancreatic
:19:31. > :19:36.cancer but other cancers well and look at different proteins, not
:19:36. > :19:39.just the one he has identified. long a process do you expect now to
:19:39. > :19:44.go through the various stages before we can go into the doctors'
:19:44. > :19:51.surgery and it is a pretty cheap test if it works for everybody?
:19:51. > :20:00.What Jack has shown with his mixture of carbon nano tubes,
:20:00. > :20:05.detecting this niesothelum, important in pancreatic cancer, he
:20:05. > :20:08.can detect low levels, we can show clinicians that detecting it
:20:08. > :20:12.earlier is more favourable outcomes for patients. We need to test
:20:12. > :20:16.normal people to make sure you can't detect it. To test people
:20:16. > :20:20.with very early pancreatic cancer to make sure you can detect it and
:20:20. > :20:25.intervene and save lives. We should say one of the things is although
:20:25. > :20:29.there has been so many advances in if cancer treatment in the last 40
:20:30. > :20:32.years, pancreatic cancer same death rates at 30-40 years ago? The new
:20:32. > :20:41.advances in pancreatic cancer over the last couple of years, there
:20:41. > :20:44.have been a lot, have generally been restricted to
:20:44. > :20:49.chemotherapyudics, not the new treatment. This opens up
:20:49. > :20:53.possibilities that we can treat the cancers by targeting the protein
:20:53. > :20:58.that Jack has identified through a simple apparatus that combines
:20:58. > :21:03.different aspects of science. must be really excited? I'm pretty
:21:03. > :21:06.pump, it will be really exciting where it goes. You are talking to
:21:06. > :21:09.people here and tomorrow about it. What are your plans about being
:21:09. > :21:13.involved in the research and your future? Currently I have the
:21:13. > :21:16.international patent on the technology, and I'm in discussions
:21:16. > :21:20.with large Biotech companies in order to try to get in the market
:21:20. > :21:24.as soon as possible and collaberate with them on these large-scale
:21:25. > :21:33.clinical trials to prove efficacy. I'm currently working on something
:21:33. > :21:37.called the Try-Quarter Prize. It is to develop something the size of a
:21:37. > :21:42.smartphone to pass over your skin to diagnose everything. I'm pretty
:21:42. > :21:47.excited about that working with a high school theme. You were talking
:21:47. > :21:52.about the epiphany moment, it is something like eyes sack Newton
:21:52. > :21:56.getting hit on the head with the apple? I was thinking maybe if I
:21:57. > :22:01.can combine the two fields together, that is where you net revolutiony
:22:02. > :22:06.innovation when you combine unrelated fields into elegant
:22:06. > :22:09.solutions. In terms of enthusiasm, I'm thinking about how it might
:22:09. > :22:13.play with people in your own age and your own country, hearing
:22:13. > :22:16.people talk about science. Do you think you can turn people on to
:22:16. > :22:23.science? Definitely. What I really see is that when people in my
:22:23. > :22:26.school they see that I'm just a this regular kid in this school, it
:22:26. > :22:29.is a regular public school another inner city Baltimore, there is a
:22:30. > :22:35.lot of bad kids there. When they see me being able to do this great
:22:35. > :22:39.science they then see, hey maybe I can do that. There is a lot more
:22:39. > :22:43.people getting into and being able to do these amazing researches.
:22:43. > :22:47.That in itself is quite inspirational? It is massive, to
:22:47. > :22:51.inspire the next generation of kids and young adults to get into
:22:51. > :22:53.science and to try to make a difference to patients in the
:22:54. > :22:59.clinic and get a better education I think is absolutely fabulous. Well
:22:59. > :23:03.done. And just in terms of where we are with cancer treatments and
:23:03. > :23:07.cures. It is, there is no silver bullet but there has been a lot of
:23:07. > :23:12.advances as I suggested a moment ago? It is not just one thing. We
:23:12. > :23:15.are looking at better diagnostics and better detection. We need to
:23:15. > :23:19.consider better surgery, better therapy and chemotherapy and
:23:19. > :23:22.biological drugs and treatment as well. Together all of those little
:23:22. > :23:26.things together end up making a large difference to patients and
:23:26. > :23:28.increasing the cure rate. Thank you very much, and good luck with your
:23:28. > :23:31.work. Now senior Labour politicians have
:23:31. > :23:36.tonight joined with the Conservatives to push hard for what
:23:36. > :23:39.has been called the "snoopers' charter", the controversial
:23:39. > :23:45.Communications Data Bill, that has already split the coalition. It
:23:45. > :23:48.will give GCHQ, MI5 and other agencies the power to monitor
:23:48. > :23:53.internet use in the wake of a terrorist attack. Nick Clegg says
:23:53. > :23:55.it is a non-starter, as it is, without Labour support. That might
:23:55. > :24:04.be happening, creating potentionally big problems for Nick
:24:04. > :24:09.Clegg. Forensic science, psychological expertise, the
:24:09. > :24:13.emergency forces had tools and techniques at their disposal last
:24:13. > :24:17.month. And Drummer Lee Rigby was murdered in Woolich. But the calls
:24:17. > :24:21.for new powers are coming from our Security Services. They want
:24:21. > :24:25.communications firms forced to store our texts, e-mails,
:24:25. > :24:30.voicemails, the lot, to combat terrorism.
:24:30. > :24:36.A month earlier Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg heard this
:24:36. > :24:39.request and he simply said no. people have dubbed "the snoopers
:24:39. > :24:43.charter", that is not going to happen. The idea that the
:24:43. > :24:49.Government will pass a law which means there would be a record kept
:24:50. > :24:53.of every website you visit, of any, what you communicate with on social
:24:53. > :24:56.media sites. That's not going to happen. It is certainly not going
:24:56. > :25:01.to happen with Liberal Democrats in Government. The Conservative Party
:25:01. > :25:05.had increasingly been ploughing a lonely furrow on this issue. Until
:25:05. > :25:09.today, and what's perhaps quite a big development. In this letter,
:25:09. > :25:13.passed to Newsnight. Three former Labour home secretaries joined
:25:13. > :25:18.forces with three senior Conservative politicians and a Lib
:25:18. > :25:23.Dem peer to mount a fresh push for the Communications Data Bill. With
:25:23. > :25:27.more big voices saying "get on with it", things might be shifting back
:25:27. > :25:32.the Conservatives' way. What extra powers would be made
:25:32. > :25:36.available under the draft Data Communications Bill. For up to 12
:25:36. > :25:40.month data companies would be required to store social media
:25:40. > :25:44.messages, internet voice calls, e- mail, phone calls, including the
:25:44. > :25:48.location of the device that the call has been made from. Officials
:25:48. > :25:54.would not be allowed it see the content of any of these messages
:25:54. > :25:59.until the Home Secretary issued a warrant allowing them to do so.
:25:59. > :26:04.Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales was one of those who gave evidence to a
:26:04. > :26:10.committee of MPs and peers examining the bill last autumn. The
:26:10. > :26:15.committee was critical of the draft bill. With one peer decribing it as
:26:15. > :26:25."a honey pot for hackers, criminals large and small from around the
:26:25. > :26:46.
:26:46. > :26:49.The Conservative Ben Wallace is one of the MPs who organised the letter.
:26:49. > :26:51.It demonstrates that some very senior people, people with
:26:51. > :26:55.experience of Government and intelligence are saying there is a
:26:55. > :26:59.need for this. Time has run out, time to make the choice. And I
:26:59. > :27:02.think people shouldn't get hung up on parliamentary vehicles on how we
:27:02. > :27:06.achieve it. That is just a smoke screen for doing nothing and doing
:27:06. > :27:10.nothing is not an option. So I think those people need to decide
:27:10. > :27:14.what are they going to do to keep us safe and secure. Security
:27:14. > :27:19.Services have faced increasing difficulty over recent years, and
:27:19. > :27:24.in 2008 it was a Labour Government that attempted to boost their
:27:24. > :27:26.powers. Now, formally, the Labour Party is opposed to this
:27:26. > :27:31.legislation too. They have said they will only work with the
:27:31. > :27:36.Government on a revised bill. But senior Labour figures have made up
:27:36. > :27:42.their mind. They are piling on the pressure. We are serious about this.
:27:42. > :27:47.There is bipartisan support for this bill, and more overthere has
:27:47. > :27:52.been an all-party committee looking at the bill which has said to
:27:52. > :27:57.narrow it down and increase the safeguards. We say yes to that, and
:27:57. > :28:01.in those circumstances there is no reason why there shouldn't be a
:28:01. > :28:03.majority in the House of Commons from the Labour Party and the
:28:04. > :28:07.Conservative Party. As for Nick Clegg, he is not the only
:28:08. > :28:13.politician who has said things he may later regret or has had to move
:28:13. > :28:16.on. In my point of view he has to decide whether it is more important
:28:16. > :28:20.to support Google and other American companies or supporting
:28:20. > :28:25.reassurance for the British people. We still don't know what the
:28:25. > :28:28.official Labour Party position would be if a called "snooper's
:28:28. > :28:34.charter" was ever brought back to the House for a vote. It may be
:28:34. > :28:37.that doesn't matter. Right now the Home Office is working on ways to
:28:37. > :28:41.give our Security Services the new powers they say they need just
:28:41. > :28:46.doing it by the back door. What this letter shows is increasingly
:28:46. > :28:50.they have more and more political support for doing that. Opponents
:28:50. > :28:55.of these proposed new Security Service powers will now expect the
:28:55. > :29:00.Deputy Prime Minister to overcome an unusual coalition. The
:29:00. > :29:04.possibility of the Tories with Labour.
:29:04. > :29:08.The Lib Dem MP, Tom Brake, who has led his party's opposition to the
:29:08. > :29:13.Communications Data Bill is here. The battlelines are pretty clear
:29:13. > :29:17.here. Labour and the Conservatives, senior people in both parties, with
:29:17. > :29:21.long experience of Government take one view, and the Liberal Democrats
:29:21. > :29:23.are acting like they are still in opposition? It is not only the
:29:23. > :29:29.Liberal Democrats, but senior Conservatives who support the
:29:29. > :29:33.position we have got. Really nothing has changed. A letter has
:29:33. > :29:37.been published, but in practice we have looked at the bill, the bill
:29:37. > :29:42.is, there are parts of it which we have allowed to go forward in terms
:29:42. > :29:46.of the IP matching. That was in the Queen's Speech. That incidentally
:29:46. > :29:50.of the police said was their top priority, that is going forward.
:29:50. > :29:54.There are other aspects of what was proposed in the bill that was
:29:54. > :29:58.simply unworkable. There are other aspects which would have had a very
:29:58. > :30:02.heavy civil liberties impact. former home secretaries, three
:30:02. > :30:07.Labour one Conservative, and the former Conservative Defence
:30:07. > :30:11.Secretary, your own Lord Carlyle, they have experience of this stuff,
:30:11. > :30:14.seeing the things the security serves say they need, and Theresa
:30:14. > :30:17.May, who says you are putting politics before people's lives.
:30:17. > :30:22.Criminals go free and paedophiles not identified. They are all
:30:22. > :30:30.deluded are they? I don't agree with that. Some of those ex-Labour
:30:30. > :30:34.home secretaries were the ones advocating we needed 90-days
:30:34. > :30:37.prechurched detention. But the others deluded? There are
:30:37. > :30:42.differences, and within the coalition, that is why it is not
:30:42. > :30:46.possible to come to agreement. That is how policy work, there has to be
:30:46. > :30:50.agreement between parties, we have looked at the bill as did the joint
:30:50. > :30:53.committee. The joint committee was clear there were aspects of the
:30:53. > :30:57.bill they thought were uncosted and vague and it wouldn't deliver what
:30:57. > :31:01.the Government was hoping. Director of Public Prosecutions has
:31:01. > :31:05.suggested there is a risk to future prosecutions. Is there anything
:31:05. > :31:09.whatsoever that would change your mind? As I said our mind was
:31:09. > :31:14.changed in relation to IP matching, that is ensuring we know who is
:31:14. > :31:17.using a particular mobile device so it can be tracked. That is what the
:31:17. > :31:21.police said was their priority, we are delivering on that. When the
:31:21. > :31:24.next terrorist outrage happens you are going to be comfortable
:31:24. > :31:29.explaining your constituents why you took this principled position?
:31:29. > :31:34.Of course let's not forget that a lot of the data that the police and
:31:34. > :31:37.others want to access is actually there. It can be accessed using
:31:37. > :31:40.voluntary arrangements which work currently with companies like
:31:40. > :31:44.Google. That has proven very successful. But there is always a
:31:44. > :31:50.balance, I think you would accept between civil liberties on the one
:31:50. > :31:53.hand and trying to protect people from crimes. Your position makes
:31:53. > :31:58.people marginally less safe doesn't it? I don't agree with that. In
:31:58. > :32:01.fact if you look at the implications of what of the imfact
:32:01. > :32:06.of the Data Communications Bill had it gone forward. I think we would
:32:06. > :32:11.have seen a much less positive attitude from some of the large
:32:11. > :32:15.companies to working on a voluntary basis with the Government. But also
:32:15. > :32:18.why on earth should we support a bill which for instance would have
:32:18. > :32:22.required third party companies based abroad to provide data when
:32:22. > :32:26.we know that they are not going to do that, and had we tried to
:32:26. > :32:29.enforce that then of course we might have seen other countries,
:32:29. > :32:36.like China for instance, trying to require our ISPs, our companies
:32:36. > :32:46.here, to provide them with data. Everybody has a secret world inside
:32:46. > :32:46.
:32:46. > :32:50.them, I mean everybody, No matter who they are, inside they have an
:32:50. > :32:53.unimaginable, magnificent, stupid, amazing world. If you are a fan you
:32:53. > :32:58.may have already recognised these words by the writer Neil Gaiman.
:32:58. > :33:04.They come from his highly successful Sandman series, which
:33:04. > :33:09.Norman Maler described as comic strips for intellectuals. He has a
:33:09. > :33:13.new novel out. Stephen Smith has been to see him. Adults follow
:33:13. > :33:17.paths, children explore. Adults are content to walk the same way
:33:17. > :33:23.hundreds of times or thousands. Perhaps it never occurs to adults
:33:23. > :33:28.to step off the paths, to cross- examine beneath the bushes to find
:33:28. > :33:34.the spaces between fences. I was a child, and would slip down the hill
:33:34. > :33:38.and over the rusting metal fence that boardered the lane.
:33:38. > :33:44.It is a very personal and odd little book. It definitely was my
:33:44. > :33:49.attempt to try to talk about the huge gulfs between childhood and
:33:49. > :33:53.adulthood. And the places that they are very, very similar, and those
:33:53. > :33:58.places where, from a child's point of view, you might as well be
:33:58. > :34:04.living on a different planet. Gaiman's new one starts with a
:34:04. > :34:09.suicide. Then there is adultery, child abuse, whoit witches and even
:34:09. > :34:15.devil birds. -- white witches and even devil birds. To qoch Liberace
:34:15. > :34:21.in the new film about him, "it has everything but a fire in the
:34:21. > :34:25.orphanage". Neil Gaiman wrote it for his wife, that's nice, I think?
:34:26. > :34:29.I thought I will write her a short story, and it would be about what
:34:29. > :34:34.it was like to look out my eyes when I was seven. The family won't
:34:34. > :34:38.quite be my family. The events will be invented. But I will recreate
:34:38. > :34:43.that landscape that no longer really exists. Mom, what are you
:34:43. > :34:49.doing here in the middle of the night. You are just intime for
:34:49. > :34:56.supper dear. You may already be film with Gaiman's dark children's
:34:56. > :35:02.book, Coraline was turned into a film. I'm your other mother.
:35:02. > :35:05.As was Stardust, one of the writer's fantasy stories. If you
:35:05. > :35:12.like this kind of thing, then this is the kind of thing you will like.
:35:12. > :35:18.But don't take our word for it. Here is a Hollywood producer.
:35:18. > :35:24.probably the greatest fantasy writer living. In my opinion. I
:35:24. > :35:28.think like all great fantasy his novels transcend genre. So let's
:35:28. > :35:32.put it this way, he is one of the greatest writers living, period,
:35:32. > :35:36.he's an original voice, in a very unoriginal world. I love talking
:35:36. > :35:39.about the world I'm in. I love talking about the world I'm
:35:39. > :35:44.observing. I always find it much more interesting if I can just turn
:35:44. > :35:49.it a little way and show it to people from a slightly different
:35:49. > :35:56.angle. On the one hand we are tremenduously sophisticated and we
:35:56. > :36:00.have our iPhones and Blackmore & Langdons berries. And on the other
:36:00. > :36:07.hand we Blackberries, but on the other hand we don't know how they
:36:07. > :36:13.work. And if you told me that the people at Apple have come clean and
:36:13. > :36:20.said it was elves that make it work, I would be OK. It would be good if
:36:20. > :36:24.it was? At least until they went on strike. Doctor Who, he hasn't on
:36:24. > :36:30.Newsnight for days. Neil Gaiman has written a few episodes. It is so
:36:30. > :36:36.very, very nice it meet you. I was incredibly happy with my first
:36:36. > :36:40.episode, doctor's wife, I felt like I got 97% of what I wanted to
:36:40. > :36:45.happen, happen. The new one. weren't trying to bring sex into
:36:45. > :36:49.the world of the Doctor? I think sex is always in the world of the
:36:49. > :36:53.Doctor, just properly repressed. Enough to give you dramatic tension
:36:53. > :36:57.all the time. It keeps threatening to bubble over now. People are
:36:57. > :37:02.writing about it all the time. Which is part of your legacy, I put
:37:03. > :37:08.it to you? I think that's a perfectly decent legacy to leave
:37:08. > :37:18.behind. Some of my highly trained colleagues on Newsnight are almost
:37:18. > :37:27.
:37:27. > :37:31.literally bursting with excitement I'm delighted to hear they are,
:37:31. > :37:39.widdling themselves. They are, I will quote you back to them.
:37:39. > :37:44.Sandman was his twist on the legend of Morpheus, this programme is
:37:44. > :37:51.meaningless if it doesn't bring scoops about graphic fiction.
:37:51. > :37:56.Sandman is coming back. It is a six-issue prequel to Sandman. And I,
:37:56. > :38:01.it was one story that was left over one I finished the whole thing.
:38:01. > :38:07.Children's book, anyone can do them, it seems. Or at least celebrities
:38:07. > :38:11.are now, even footballers, Frank Lampard was quoted in the Guardian
:38:11. > :38:15.as saying he hopes one day to be able to write the whole thing
:38:15. > :38:21.himself. Everybody thinks they can write a children's book. Anybody
:38:21. > :38:25.who has ever had to tell their kid a story at night and have their kid
:38:25. > :38:30.go, your stories are better than anybody else's stories thinks they
:38:30. > :38:33.can write children's books. Every editor of children's books in the
:38:33. > :38:42.world is terrified that a successful adult novelist will send
:38:42. > :38:46.over their children's book, normally they will be terrible.
:38:46. > :38:51.Neil Gaiman has turned his boyhood daydreaming into a successful
:38:51. > :39:01.career. And he understands that in uncertain times fantasy offers the
:39:01. > :39:05.
:39:05. > :39:09.on soothing rules. In a world in which there are very few
:39:09. > :39:14.certainties with technology, economic uncertainty, all sorts of
:39:14. > :39:20.things that seemed very set in stone 50 years ago, 100 years ago,
:39:20. > :39:24.even 25 years ago, now seem very in flux. I think fantasy, some kind of
:39:24. > :39:32.fantasy can definitely give you a world in which things seem more
:39:32. > :39:37.certain. The newspapers in a moment, first
:39:37. > :39:41.the great media baron Rupert Murdoch has filed for divorce
:39:41. > :39:46.through the New York Supreme Court, his wife Wendy Dung became well
:39:46. > :39:53.known after she sprang to her husband's defence after a protestor
:39:53. > :39:57.threw a custard pie at him as he testified before MPs. The couple
:39:57. > :40:02.married in 1999 and have two children. He was said to have paid
:40:02. > :40:09.out $1.7 billion to his previous wife, Anna, one of the most
:40:09. > :40:18.expensive divorces of all time. I have with me a representative of
:40:18. > :40:23.hundreds of wealthy clients in divorces and a author about Rupert
:40:23. > :40:27.Murdoch. It has been a bad couple of years? The hacking scandal that
:40:27. > :40:33.has split the company in two, and his son James won't be likely it
:40:33. > :40:35.take over and spliting from his wife for 11 years. Did you see that
:40:35. > :40:38.coming? Murdoch watchers knew there was something wrong in the
:40:38. > :40:43.relationship. It was an open secret in New York they were living apart.
:40:43. > :40:48.It is always a surprise when you have an 82-year-old man ripping up
:40:49. > :40:52.everything and starting all over again. In terms of the dynasty, the
:40:52. > :40:56.Murdoch dynasty that you alluded to, it seems to be a very big part of
:40:56. > :41:02.his life from his father through to his children. Does it throw some of
:41:02. > :41:08.that into question? I think it does. In the short run it looks as if
:41:08. > :41:12.Wendy Dung may not get any controlling shares in News Corp.
:41:13. > :41:16.Her children already have non- voting shares. Unless the divorce
:41:16. > :41:20.settlement throws up extra control for her, it is unlikely to have
:41:20. > :41:25.direct impact. She's a very forceful figure. We know his six
:41:25. > :41:29.children war with each other. The jury is out on that. In terms of
:41:29. > :41:33.filing for divorce in New York, is that a shrewd move or otherwise?
:41:34. > :41:43.would make a lot of sense for him. The understanding is he has a
:41:43. > :41:49.prenup and a couple of post-nups and that will protect his assets
:41:49. > :41:54.and the company. New York is very determined to uphold prenups. They
:41:54. > :41:58.can be challenged in the same way as here, duress, undue pressure or
:41:58. > :42:03.disclosure. They are pretty robust in taking a hardline to enforce him.
:42:03. > :42:06.If you do challenge it you get a lot of publicity, then it becomes
:42:06. > :42:10.public and part of the prenup will sort it out in a different way?
:42:10. > :42:13.What is useful about a prenup is confidentiality clauses which is
:42:13. > :42:17.great if you are a high-profile figure and you have a wife who
:42:17. > :42:22.might be party to all sorts of secrets that you prefer to keep
:42:22. > :42:25.under wraps. It makes sense to have those clauses and make the prenup
:42:25. > :42:29.work. If you try to take that to court you can fight the battle. You
:42:29. > :42:34.can get badly hit on costs if you try to fight a hopeless case.
:42:34. > :42:37.is a post-nup? That is an agreement you reach after the marriage.
:42:38. > :42:41.People do that for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they do it
:42:41. > :42:47.because there has been some sort of rift in the marriage. It is a way,
:42:47. > :42:50.it is scope for renegotiation and, or for levelling the playing field
:42:50. > :42:54.in some way. Sometimes it is because of a positive event, like
:42:54. > :42:59.the birth of a choild, and you might feel OK -- child, and you
:42:59. > :43:09.might field I want to give my husband or wife, whichever the
:43:09. > :43:14.
:43:14. > :43:20.weaker party, a bit more university. In terms -- Stability.What does it
:43:20. > :43:24.contain, the amount per year or the children? Sometimes you have a
:43:24. > :43:28.prenup that doesn't provide anybody on either side. It is if someone
:43:28. > :43:31.has resources, it is commonor couples with later marriages with
:43:31. > :43:35.some independence. In a situation like this you would expect there to
:43:35. > :43:39.be provision for her, either a percentage, but that is unlikely
:43:39. > :43:42.with this sort of magnitude. You would expect a certain amount per
:43:42. > :43:47.year of the marriage, that would be a common structure. I was struck
:43:47. > :43:51.what you said at the start, which is a man of 82 tearing it up and
:43:51. > :43:56.starting again. Do you think he will go on forever? I think he
:43:56. > :44:06.would like to. There is no hint of him standing down. It is amazing
:44:06. > :44:06.
:44:06. > :44:09.what he does aged 82, he runs this global multi million and colour
:44:09. > :44:14.media corporation that spans the globe. I think he's fascinated by
:44:14. > :44:17.the business and wants it carry on. He is very much in charge? There
:44:17. > :44:22.were some people speculating that he's much less in charge and will
:44:22. > :44:26.take more of a back seat and so on. That is not your reading of it?
:44:26. > :44:31.think he's still running the show firmly. He has always been less
:44:31. > :44:35.interested in the more profitable TV and film businesses than in the
:44:35. > :44:38.politically meddling newspaper businesses. Which keeps him going
:44:38. > :44:42.and gives him the park spark. But I don't think there is any sign that
:44:42. > :44:46.he will step down soon. We will have a look at the papers
:44:46. > :44:52.now: Some news while we were on airer,
:44:52. > :44:59.the White House has confirmed that the Assad regime, in their judgment,
:44:59. > :45:02.has indeed used chemical weapons against opposition forces. Or the
:45:02. > :45:05.the opposition. They say at least 150 death have been reported as a
:45:05. > :45:08.result of the use of the chemical weapons. They also say that
:45:08. > :45:11.President Obama has decided to provide some kind of military
:45:11. > :45:21.support for the opposition, although we have no details on that.
:45:21. > :45:57.
:45:57. > :46:07.That came too early for the front That's all from us tonight, I will
:46:07. > :46:31.
:46:31. > :46:34.be back with more tomorrow. Good Good evening, things quieten down
:46:34. > :46:38.overnight, at least for a time. There is another weather system
:46:38. > :46:41.coming in from the Atlantic. During the morning it is increasingly
:46:41. > :46:47.windy and wet in Northern Ireland, by the afternoon it looks pretty
:46:47. > :46:51.miserable. The rain will be heavy and persistent, and it will affect
:46:51. > :46:55.most areas. Underneath that it is 12-15 degrees. It is a cold and
:46:55. > :46:59.damp day. Meanwhile in Scotland the cloud is over through the morning,
:46:59. > :47:03.with outbreaks of rain with 14-15 years. Similar temperatures in
:47:03. > :47:07.northern England. A lot of showers in the afternoon, some heavy with
:47:07. > :47:10.the odd rumble of thunder. The showers fading away as you get
:47:10. > :47:14.towards the southern counties the sunshine in Kent, Sussex and all
:47:14. > :47:19.the way towards the south coast of Devon, a dry and bright day with
:47:19. > :47:22.sunny spells. A bit more cloud around in Cornwall, windy too.
:47:22. > :47:27.Windy across Wales, a fair bit of cloud and a scattering of showers
:47:27. > :47:32.through the afternoon. 15-16 degrees. Up toward the start of the
:47:32. > :47:35.weekends, I think one of the key features is it will be a windy day
:47:35. > :47:38.across all parts of the UK. Particularly so in the south. There
:47:38. > :47:43.will be a scattering of showers to go with the strong winds. They