:00:13. > :00:17.The organisation supposed to protect the quality of healthcare
:00:17. > :00:20.in this country admits it made a mistake.
:00:20. > :00:25.Last night its boss statistic in that chair and told us he couldn't
:00:25. > :00:29.say who done it. He's back tonight and saying something different.
:00:29. > :00:34.It's happening here and here and here, children from poorer homes,
:00:34. > :00:37.white children, generally, failing at school without anyone seeming to
:00:37. > :00:43.care very much. If education in inner cities can be improved, why
:00:43. > :00:47.not in a leafy suburb, or sunny seaside.
:00:47. > :00:51.The Carnegie prize winner, Sally Gardner, the headteacher from the
:00:51. > :00:55.TV series, Educating Essex, and leading educationalist discuss.
:00:55. > :01:01.filming myself on one of these on one of these, whilst being filmed
:01:01. > :01:04.by one of these at the same time. That's what I will be talking about,
:01:04. > :01:08.how fatastically annoying people like me are!
:01:08. > :01:13.Whatever Marcus. We have got our own annoying guest to about why
:01:13. > :01:16.people feel this weird compulsion to film everything.
:01:16. > :01:21.Also tonight, they come from across the world to seek asylum in the
:01:21. > :01:26.lucky country, and they end up in camps in another country in the
:01:27. > :01:30.Pacific, what is Australia's policy towards refugees? What we want to
:01:30. > :01:40.do, apparently, is to make ourselves look even less desirable
:01:40. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :01:52.than the Taliban. Either they had bad legal advice or
:01:52. > :01:55.the Care Quality Commission, supposed to protect us from
:01:55. > :02:00.malpractice and medical incompetence don't know itself.
:02:00. > :02:04.Last night the boss told us he couldn't disclose who had been in
:02:04. > :02:10.on the fatal discovery of suppressing a fatal report.
:02:10. > :02:14.Tonight we will see what they had to say shortly. First new readers
:02:14. > :02:18.start here with our science editor, Watts.
:02:18. > :02:23.Yet we had the CQC's own report, looking into how well they had
:02:23. > :02:27.investigated concerns over the deaths of mothers and babies at the
:02:27. > :02:34.Morecambe Bay Hospital Trust. It was a damning report, which found
:02:34. > :02:39.evidence of cover-up, of failures. The CQC had taken out the names of
:02:39. > :02:42.individuals, not identified people, citing data protection concerns.
:02:42. > :02:47.Then we spoke to the Information Commissioner, he's the man whose
:02:47. > :02:51.job it is to implement the Data Protection Act. He couldn't
:02:51. > :02:57.understand why they were saying that. Now here is how the chief
:02:57. > :03:01.executive of the CQC, David Behan, reacted on last night's programme.
:03:01. > :03:04.You said unambiguously the advice you have been given is wrong, and
:03:04. > :03:07.that you are hiding behind it? are not hiding behind it, I
:03:07. > :03:11.wouldn't have commissioned this report in the first place, we are
:03:11. > :03:15.clear that we need to account for what we did and that's what we will
:03:15. > :03:20.do. You will publish the names tomorrow will you? I will take
:03:20. > :03:25.legal advice tomorrow on publishing the names.
:03:25. > :03:29.The pressure has built, and today the CQC wrote to Jeremy Hunt, the
:03:29. > :03:32.Health Secretary, and said it had reviewed its original legal advice,
:03:32. > :03:36.taken into account what the Information Commissioner had said
:03:36. > :03:38.to us, and decided that the overridinging public interest in
:03:38. > :03:47.transparency and accountability meant they could disclose those
:03:47. > :03:51.names. So how does this move us forward then? Crucially we now know
:03:51. > :03:55.the identities of four people who were at a meeting in March last
:03:55. > :03:58.year at which it is alleged the order was made to delete an
:03:58. > :04:02.internal report that it was very critical of the way that the
:04:02. > :04:08.regulator had behaved. Now in yesterday's report these people
:04:08. > :04:12.were just referred to by letter names. Now we know that Mr E was in
:04:12. > :04:16.fact Cynthia Bower, the former chief executive of the CQC, who
:04:16. > :04:21.left the organisation last year. Today she resigned from the private
:04:21. > :04:26.health lobbying company where she has been since. She has denied any
:04:26. > :04:30.wrongdoing. Mr F was in fact Anna Jefferson, the media manager, who
:04:30. > :04:35.still works at the CQC. She was the one identified in yesterday's
:04:35. > :04:41.report as saying "are you kidding me, this can never be in a public
:04:41. > :04:46.domain or subjected to FoI". She's now on maternity leave and
:04:46. > :04:53.vehemently denies having said that. Today she said the quote was
:04:53. > :04:58.completely untrue and uncoroborated by anybody else and has since been
:04:58. > :05:02.retracted. Third that at meeting, "Mr G", Jill Finney, she has also
:05:02. > :05:08.left. She's the one who is also alleged to have made the order to
:05:08. > :05:11.delete, saying "read my lips", she denies that, today she was sacked
:05:11. > :05:17.by the Internet registry company where she had been working. The
:05:17. > :05:21.last of the four at that meeting was "Mr J", we know that was Louise
:05:21. > :05:25.Dinely, head of regulatory risk and quality at the CQC, still in post
:05:25. > :05:31.who wrote that critical internal report and didn't in fact delete it.
:05:31. > :05:34.Has disclosing these names done anything to improve confidence in
:05:34. > :05:37.the Care Quality Commission, do you think? I think they have a job on
:05:37. > :05:40.their hands. There will be internal rows at the organisation for some
:05:40. > :05:43.time yet. There are calls for the police to look at whether there are
:05:43. > :05:48.grounds for criminal charges against individuals for failing
:05:48. > :05:52.patients. That deleted report is now on their website. But it has
:05:52. > :05:57.been a very bad mis-step by a regulator whose mantra has been the
:05:57. > :06:01.need for openness. Thank you.
:06:01. > :06:04.As mentioned the chief executive of the Care Quality Commission was
:06:04. > :06:07.last night in that very chair saying he would review the legal
:06:07. > :06:14.advice he had been given. Earlier this evening he kindly agreed to
:06:14. > :06:18.come back and see us. Welcome back. Thank you.Have your
:06:18. > :06:22.lawyers now told you there isn't a problem with the Data Protection
:06:22. > :06:26.Act? Well last night we said we would review the advice we were
:06:26. > :06:29.given. I gave a commitment to do that this morning, that is what we
:06:29. > :06:33.have done. I have also spoken to the Information Commissioner today
:06:33. > :06:37.in light of the advice he offered yesterday. What we have done is
:06:37. > :06:40.made a decision in the public interest to publish the names today.
:06:40. > :06:44.So the lawyers have not given you any different advice to the
:06:44. > :06:47.previous advice you have had? when they received the advice in
:06:48. > :06:51.the first instance, they talked about the risk of pub liring
:06:51. > :06:55.people's names. We have reviewed -- publishing people's names. We have
:06:55. > :06:58.reviewed our decision, we have changed that. We probably got it
:06:58. > :07:01.wrong yesterday not putting those names out. You got it wrong
:07:01. > :07:06.according to the Information Commissioner? We have put it right
:07:06. > :07:10.today, we have accepted that. are these lawyers? The lawyers we
:07:11. > :07:15.have consulted are a reputable company, Bevan Britain. What are
:07:15. > :07:19.you paying them? I haven't had the bill yet. They gave you duff
:07:19. > :07:22.advice? They gave us the balance and risk. That is what lawyers do.
:07:22. > :07:26.We need to make a judgment on that, we did make that judgment, I think
:07:26. > :07:28.we got it wrong. We are putting that right today, we said we would
:07:28. > :07:31.review it, we have listened to the Information Commissioner. What we
:07:32. > :07:36.are doing is we are being and transparent and accountable for
:07:36. > :07:40.what we did. That is why we have put the names out. We now discover
:07:40. > :07:44.there were two people at this crucial meeting who still work for
:07:44. > :07:48.you? Are they going to be disciplined? The other thing we
:07:48. > :07:51.have said today is I will take, I will send the report to an
:07:51. > :07:56.employment lawyer and take advice from them about whether there are
:07:56. > :08:00.any risks for them. But...It Is bad idea taking advice from lawyers, it
:08:00. > :08:05.gets you into trouble? If I can come back on the action of the two
:08:05. > :08:10.people. The responsibility for the failure to disclose this report and
:08:10. > :08:13.make a decision to delete it rests with the more senior people. One of
:08:13. > :08:17.the people that was at the meeting was instructed to delete it. She
:08:17. > :08:21.refused to delete it and did the appropriate thing and spoke to her
:08:21. > :08:24.manager. You are not consulting employment lawyers? Whose advice
:08:24. > :08:28.doubtless you will take again, will you? I will listen to those lawyers,
:08:28. > :08:32.and I will make the decision about what should happen to staff.
:08:32. > :08:36.what point did you decide to consult the employment lawyers?
:08:36. > :08:45.have made that decision, we got this report last week, I made that
:08:45. > :08:50.decision today that we knew. Today? You have had a week. We knew, ...I
:08:50. > :08:53.Had less than a week. I knew there would be issues to address about
:08:53. > :08:57.those staff still employed by us, we would have taken action against
:08:57. > :09:02.those. The have they been suspended? No they haven't been
:09:02. > :09:06.suspended. Shouldn't they be?The member of staff who refused to
:09:06. > :09:09.delete the report and told her manager has behaved in an entirely
:09:09. > :09:13.appropriate way, they were not part of the problem. What about the
:09:13. > :09:17.others? The senior people that took the decision and gave the
:09:17. > :09:22.instruction no longer work for CQC. I don't want to be personal about
:09:22. > :09:27.this, but there is a leadership issue here, isn't there? I believe
:09:27. > :09:30.I'm demonstrating leadership, I have had dozens upon dozens of
:09:30. > :09:33.messages from members of staff who believe I'm acting in an
:09:33. > :09:37.appropriate way, and actually creating an open and transparent
:09:37. > :09:40.culture in CQC, and are supportive of what I have been doing. I came
:09:40. > :09:44.on this programme yesterday and accounted, I'm here again to
:09:44. > :09:47.account. I'm part of leading CQC forward, I believe that is
:09:47. > :09:51.leadership and I believe my staff are recognising it as that too.
:09:52. > :09:55.Don't get me wrong, we are pleased to see you of course. You might be
:09:55. > :10:02.coming back tomorrow with some other decision you want to
:10:02. > :10:06.overturn? I hope not. I believe I, my values are important to me, I
:10:06. > :10:09.believe in public service, I believe in values of integrity and
:10:09. > :10:13.openness and honesty. I'm doing my best to demonstrate that in what I
:10:13. > :10:16.find in very difficult circumstances. But I do believe I
:10:16. > :10:20.need to account. I believe that's what I'm doing. It is for others to
:10:20. > :10:27.say whether they have trust in me, but I'm trying to demonstrate the
:10:27. > :10:30.very best values in public sector leadership.
:10:30. > :10:34.There was some rather good news today about what's happening in
:10:34. > :10:37.some of our schools. The latest report from Jeff stead inspectors
:10:37. > :10:43.suggest standards have risen in many British cities, but there is
:10:43. > :10:47.inevitable low a flip side. The places that need serious attention
:10:47. > :10:51.-- Ofsted suggest standards have risen in many British cities. There
:10:51. > :10:55.are place, where the poorer children are allowed to fail, it is
:10:55. > :11:00.suggested the creation of an elite force of teachers to sort the
:11:00. > :11:09.problem. The problem is especially apparent in some seaside towns. We
:11:09. > :11:12.went to Essex. I am Scarlet, I'm 15 and live in
:11:12. > :11:15.Brightlingsea, I'm studying history. I want to be a primary school
:11:15. > :11:21.teacher. I don't know what I would like to be but I would like it to
:11:21. > :11:26.be of some importance. At Colne Community School, it is the
:11:26. > :11:30.ambition of the pupils that strikes you most. It wasn't always so. Five
:11:30. > :11:38.years ago Ofsted called the call "satisfactory", in other words
:11:38. > :11:41.mediocre. The pupils had low expectation for their future.
:11:41. > :11:44.children seemed to have very little aspiration. We are in a community
:11:45. > :11:47.by the sea, we are in a community where there are lots of family
:11:47. > :11:51.businesses and the aspirations of the students were very narrow in
:11:51. > :11:57.that sense. That's really been a large part of our work here is to
:11:58. > :12:01.make the students aware of opportunities outside of
:12:01. > :12:06.Brightlingsea and Essex and England, into the whole global market.
:12:07. > :12:11.school, which serves a community with its fair share of deprivation,
:12:11. > :12:16.has been turned around. Ofsted calls it "outstanding". How did
:12:16. > :12:20.they do it? They put much of their success down to having made
:12:20. > :12:25.dramatic changes to the teaching staff. Did you have to get rid of
:12:25. > :12:29.some bad teachers? I don't think there is such a thing as a bad
:12:29. > :12:32.teacher. I think there are sometimes teachers who don't
:12:32. > :12:37.necessarily fit into an organisation. They may be a weaker
:12:37. > :12:42.teacher. You did have to ask some to go? Some teachers did leave the
:12:42. > :12:48.school. The idea that good teaching can improve the performance of even
:12:48. > :12:52.the poorest pupils was at the heart of Sir Michael Wilshaw's speech.
:12:52. > :13:00.Poverty of Pectation is a greater problem than material --
:13:00. > :13:04.expectation is a greater problem than material deprivation. It is
:13:04. > :13:09.true that many families find it hard to make ends meet, but the
:13:09. > :13:15.children of poor families with high aspirations do better at school
:13:15. > :13:18.than those whose parents and teachers expect little of them.
:13:18. > :13:22.Today's Ofsted report looked at the location of schools with high
:13:23. > :13:27.numbers of deprived children. It found that the ones serving them
:13:27. > :13:34.best are concentrated heavily in urban areas. The ones serve them
:13:35. > :13:39.least well, included a significant number in coastal communities.
:13:39. > :13:43.Were it not for strong school leadership, Brightlingsea could be
:13:44. > :13:48.one such community. Like many seaside downs it feels cut off. It
:13:48. > :13:51.is not that it is at the end of the -- towns it feels cut off. It is
:13:51. > :13:55.not that it is at the end of the line, all that is left is the
:13:55. > :13:59.railway and the pub. But the success of Brightlingsea's
:13:59. > :14:02.secondary school is an exception rather than the rule. Too many
:14:02. > :14:05.children living along this coastline have been let down by the
:14:05. > :14:11.education system. Many of the schools are performing well below
:14:11. > :14:16.the national average. You need to travel a few miles down the coast
:14:16. > :14:20.to find a village that tops the league table, in poverty, that is.
:14:20. > :14:26.Jaywick is the most deprived place in England. It is a community that
:14:26. > :14:30.feels left behind. I think they are not looked after anywhere near as
:14:30. > :14:36.well as the big cities and town, they deal with that side of it. But
:14:36. > :14:39.the smaller communities are ez left behind. --Are left behind.
:14:39. > :14:44.youngsters don't stand much of a chance here. You try to give your
:14:44. > :14:48.children the best chance you can. Are you worried for them? Yes, I am,
:14:48. > :14:52.definitely. Why?Because if they don't do so well how is their life
:14:52. > :14:58.going to be as they grow up? Are they going to bring their own
:14:58. > :15:01.families up in poverty? Today Ofsted warned that it is
:15:02. > :15:07.neighbourhoods like this one, with mostly white population, that are
:15:07. > :15:10.failing poor children most. In graph shows that with the heavy
:15:10. > :15:16.focus on improving standards in Britain's ethically diverse inner
:15:16. > :15:20.cities, the poorest children from Bangladeshi, Indian, black African,
:15:20. > :15:25.Pakistani and black Caribbean backgrounds have all seen large
:15:25. > :15:30.increases in their GCSE pass rate since 2007. Despite starting from
:15:30. > :15:34.the lowest base five years ago, it is white British children on free
:15:34. > :15:39.school meals who have seen the smallest increase.
:15:39. > :15:42.So why are coastal communities in this part of Essex struggling?
:15:42. > :15:45.are dealing with some of the issues that are falling out of the urban
:15:45. > :15:49.areas and we are picking up quite a few of the pieces at the moment.
:15:49. > :15:53.What do you mean by that? We have a bit of a transient population. You
:15:53. > :15:57.find that schools are picking up youngstersing out of education in
:15:57. > :16:02.inner cities, they have -- youngsters out of education and
:16:02. > :16:05.inner cities, they have family issues, picking up those families
:16:05. > :16:09.with complex issues is the biggest problem.
:16:09. > :16:11.Ofsted has highlighted not just what disadvantaged children can
:16:11. > :16:15.achieve, but where they can be found.
:16:15. > :16:18.With us is Chris Husbands, director of the Institute of Education at
:16:18. > :16:25.the University of London, who was a member of the expert panel that put
:16:25. > :16:33.together the Ofsted report. Vic Goddard, the principal of Passmoor,
:16:33. > :16:38.he's Academy, featured in Educating Essex. And Sally Gardner, labelled
:16:38. > :16:43."unteachable" at school, but won the Carnegie Medal for her book
:16:43. > :16:48.Maggot Moon. These are unseen children, who are they? If you look
:16:48. > :16:51.at the Ofsted report they said there are two sorts of schools that
:16:51. > :16:55.do well for their children. There are schools that are relatively few
:16:55. > :17:01.poor children in the school, and schools that have very large
:17:01. > :17:03.numbers of children on free cool -- free school meals. Those the
:17:03. > :17:06.schools doing well. There are significant numbers of poor
:17:06. > :17:10.children not doing well. Are you familiar with this phenomenon?
:17:10. > :17:13.think the silent minority is always there. It is always difficult when
:17:13. > :17:17.you have our eye on so many balls and plates spinning. It is
:17:17. > :17:21.difficult to always keep that. Being reminded by Sir Michael today
:17:21. > :17:26.is fine. I think we should be keeping on being reminded of the
:17:26. > :17:29.young people missing out. The transparency on information on
:17:29. > :17:32.schools is so much greater, people can see where we are doing well or
:17:32. > :17:36.not, and if we are supported to change it all the better. What is
:17:37. > :17:41.your feeling of how much this is a consequence of social deprivation
:17:41. > :17:44.and how much it is something else? I think it is a lot to do with
:17:44. > :17:49.social deprivation in these particular areas. I think there are
:17:49. > :17:54.amazing teachers battling with very, very difficult problems that come
:17:54. > :17:59.into these schools. And I sort of feel we should empower teachers
:17:59. > :18:02.rather than put it down. I feel very worried about the negativity.
:18:02. > :18:06.We always seem to start from an area of failure rather than looking
:18:06. > :18:11.at what the success of these places are. And there is a success story
:18:11. > :18:15.in all of this. What's happened in those inner city schools is
:18:15. > :18:19.amazing? The big story of the Ofsted report is we are doing
:18:19. > :18:25.better than we were in 2003, the last report, we are doing much
:18:25. > :18:28.better than we were in 1993. We are doing better because inner cities,
:18:28. > :18:31.predominantly London, but also Birmingham and to some extent man
:18:31. > :18:37.chester, we have learned what we need to do -- man chester, we have
:18:37. > :18:45.learned what we need to do. What Michael is doing now, challenging
:18:45. > :18:49.us, to get what we know out of London to take it to scale. When
:18:49. > :18:53.you look at the figures spent per child, children in parts of inner
:18:53. > :18:59.city London, for example, are getting paid twice as much per head
:18:59. > :19:02.as in some rural areas, twice as much? The London Challenge, a big
:19:02. > :19:05.part of the success of London, London is the only capital city
:19:05. > :19:08.where it is above the national average. That was done on an audit
:19:08. > :19:12.of need, not done with a standard formula, let's giving everyone the
:19:12. > :19:17.same money. London Challenge advisers went in, looked at what
:19:17. > :19:21.wasness he radio, got the resources from central Government and put
:19:21. > :19:24.them in bespoke packages of training to improve the staff there.
:19:24. > :19:28.That was what made the difference, empowering the teachers to meet the
:19:28. > :19:33.challenges they face. And of course, it was funded centrally. Let's look
:19:33. > :19:37.at the question of teachers raised here. This is this idea, of there
:19:37. > :19:41.being a hit squad, that is wrong, it is called of national service of
:19:41. > :19:46.teachers? It is like James Bond going in. Flying in and doing his
:19:46. > :19:56.wonderful thing and then sort of going away again. And then what? So
:19:56. > :20:00.what? I find it an extraordinary idea, ll Orwellian. It is equally
:20:00. > :20:05.concerning to hear "there are no bad teachers". That is a daft thing.
:20:05. > :20:09.It was a silly thing for that man to say. There are bad people, not
:20:09. > :20:12.bad people, but people less good an others in any field? There are
:20:12. > :20:17.people who can be enfranchised to be better, and given the tools to
:20:17. > :20:24.be better, rather than starting from the area of badness. This it
:20:24. > :20:28.immense about testing for failure. What is the idea here? I want to go
:20:28. > :20:33.back half a step. The key problem here is that the teacher labour
:20:33. > :20:37.market is not working. What does that mean? What that means is the
:20:37. > :20:44.way we employ teachers in this country is that each school hires
:20:44. > :20:48.its own teachers. And we are building in to our system an almost
:20:48. > :20:52.mechanism that means that poorer struggling schools are finding it
:20:52. > :20:59.more and more difficult to attract really good teachers. We looked at
:20:59. > :21:02.schools on the east coast, it is very difficult to for schools in
:21:02. > :21:08.isolated rural areas on an open labour market to attract really
:21:08. > :21:15.good teachers. You are nodding? sit here today, a school that has
:21:15. > :21:20.been on telly, done OK, and an Ofsted report that is outstanding.
:21:20. > :21:23.Inspiring I thought. I still sit here without a science and maths
:21:23. > :21:28.teacher, advertising nationally, tweeting it, using every influence
:21:28. > :21:32.I get. I sill sit here because I won't employ poor teachers, I
:21:32. > :21:37.interview, if I don't think they are good enough I won't employ.
:21:37. > :21:43.What is my alternative? Superman coming for two weeks is not going
:21:44. > :21:50.to help. One of my two daughters tweet today say it would be good if
:21:50. > :21:54.we parachuted them in! Given that the teacher labour market isn't
:21:54. > :21:57.working. Can we put together solutions which mean we can move
:21:57. > :22:02.teachers around more stragically. We know we need to put teachers
:22:02. > :22:06.into Harlow and Clacton, what if we took a more strategic way to doing
:22:06. > :22:09.that? I don't think this is a national service strategy. It may
:22:09. > :22:12.be sub-regional, but it is about saying where are the good teachers
:22:12. > :22:19.in Essex, how do we make sure they are better shared around the
:22:19. > :22:24.schools of Essex. You are looking very restive? I just think it is, I
:22:24. > :22:27.think there is so many teachers, I go into lots of schools, and I do a
:22:27. > :22:31.lot of things with young people. I see so many great teachers who are
:22:31. > :22:35.just giving up. They can't take it any more. This tick box education,
:22:35. > :22:39.this new curriculum that keeps changing. All the borders keep
:22:39. > :22:42.changing. So I don't even know what the measurements are any more. I
:22:42. > :22:46.don't think many people are beginning to know that. I can see
:22:46. > :22:49.people are going away from teaching. I think it is so tragically sad
:22:49. > :22:57.that you should have this problem I can well see why teachers don't
:22:57. > :23:02.want to go into it. I spoke to a head of a Clacton school, head of
:23:03. > :23:06.Clacton Coastal Academy. Last years results were high, top 1% of the
:23:06. > :23:10.country for the progress they make, in this town around here, it is
:23:10. > :23:14.about the quality of teaching experience for the children. But
:23:14. > :23:17.there needs to be a systematic change of coastal town, I don't
:23:17. > :23:21.know what your experience is, mine is Skegness in the summer, lots of
:23:21. > :23:25.people, very vibrant, you go back to one of these place now, in the
:23:25. > :23:28.winter, where the people aren't there, the transient population
:23:28. > :23:33.mentioned. You are making an environment case. Are you saying
:23:33. > :23:37.the environment deters teachers from moving? Without a shadow of a
:23:37. > :23:41.doubt. It is about societal change. Teachers don't want to go and work
:23:41. > :23:45.in some places? It is more difficult. It is much more
:23:46. > :23:49.difficult to attract and to retain teachers into isolated rural
:23:49. > :23:53.communities like the ones that we have seen. More difficult than
:23:53. > :23:58.getting a teacher to go into a tough inner city school? Much more
:23:58. > :24:01.difficult. Things have worked incredibly well for London. London
:24:01. > :24:07.schools are vibrant, the very best place in the country to go to
:24:07. > :24:10.school if you are a poor child is a London borough, tower hamlets,
:24:10. > :24:14.Westminster, Camden, extremely successful. There are reasons why
:24:14. > :24:20.young people want to work in London. It is much more difficult, much
:24:20. > :24:24.more difficult to attract people to Clacton, Hastings, Margate. The
:24:24. > :24:33.report is saying if you want to solve that problem you have to take
:24:33. > :24:37.a more strategic approach to solving it. That means doing what
:24:37. > :24:41.they do in France, Singapore, one of the highest performing system,
:24:41. > :24:44.they will move teachers into struggling schools. Teachers have a
:24:44. > :24:47.vested interest in doing what is right for young people, we come
:24:47. > :24:50.with a moral purpose. I work with other schools outside my school to
:24:50. > :24:54.do that. Competition is not the way to raise standards, collaboration
:24:54. > :24:59.Thank you very much all of you. Now did you have a good dinner this
:24:59. > :25:04.evening? Did you take a picture of it? If so, please send it to us.
:25:04. > :25:08.Just a joke, send it to MasterChef. But the habit of taking photos,
:25:08. > :25:12.usually with our phones of anything and everything is everywhere.
:25:12. > :25:18.Instead of enjoying things and engaging them. There is a growing
:25:19. > :25:22.habit of photoglafing them. It is like firsthand events aren't real
:25:22. > :25:25.unless there is a photo, then we can all experience them secondhand.
:25:26. > :25:29.When the Queen opened these offices the other day, you could hardly see
:25:30. > :25:37.her for all the idiots holding up their telephones. What is this
:25:37. > :25:41.about? I know a man who won't know, Steven Smith reports. Can you spot
:25:41. > :25:49.the difference between these two pictures? Here is the Queen
:25:49. > :25:55.visiting the Beeb in 1953. Here she is again from a few weeks ago.
:25:55. > :26:05.Did you get it? The difference between the two pictures is all the
:26:05. > :26:10.
:26:10. > :26:14.pictures. Now taken on smartphones. Zoom in, grab the shot, put it on
:26:15. > :26:21.social media. We might get to see a bit of the world if we are lucky
:26:21. > :26:25.but is anyone actually looking. A lot of us have got these gadgets
:26:25. > :26:29.now, smartphone, it seems that at the least bidding we will whip them
:26:29. > :26:34.out and start recording. But is there a danger that we are
:26:34. > :26:44.missing out on something, we are failing to live in the moment. Not
:26:44. > :26:44.
:26:44. > :26:49.keeping it real? Sorry what was I saying? How things have changed.
:26:49. > :26:54.This was the crowd outside the Vatican saying farewell to Pope
:26:54. > :27:01.John Paul II in 2005. And here they are again greeting Pope Francis
:27:01. > :27:07.this year. My name is Geoff Dyer, I wrote a book about photography,
:27:08. > :27:17.called The On Going Moment. We recreated the modern experience
:27:18. > :27:19.
:27:19. > :27:24.of the saturation shoot in Geoff Dyer's sitting room.
:27:24. > :27:26.The Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam has just re-opened, now you can
:27:26. > :27:29.take pictures of the Van Gogh paintings, which means that nobody
:27:29. > :27:32.is actually looking at these paintings they have come to see,
:27:32. > :27:36.the paintings they have seen endlessly in reproductions. They
:27:36. > :27:44.are always looking at them through their cameras, or just
:27:44. > :27:48.photographing them without looking. And that seems a bit daft.
:27:48. > :27:55.# It's not the way she smiles. It has been a while since Newsnight
:27:55. > :28:04.got behind a boy band. But we are not frayed to say it, the The
:28:05. > :28:09.Wanted do it for us. They live in the unsleeping eye of social media.
:28:09. > :28:18.We met the band and their fans outside our sister station Radio
:28:19. > :28:21.One. How important is the taking pictures when you come to something
:28:21. > :28:27.like this? Good because it is important because obviously.
:28:27. > :28:30.can keep the memory as well You can prove it! It is putting it on
:28:30. > :28:33.Instagram or Twitter to make everyone else jealous. How would
:28:33. > :28:37.you have felt if you had come this morning and discovered you had left
:28:37. > :28:42.your phone at home? I would have cried. Cried? I find that it is
:28:42. > :28:47.better to just not take pictures, because you are more in the moment.
:28:47. > :28:51.Max and Jay of the Wanted. We are on Newsnight. Happy to be here,
:28:51. > :28:55.Newsnight for the win. I think a lot of the time people are trying
:28:55. > :28:58.to record the moment and essentially watching it on a three-
:28:58. > :29:01.inch screen instead of the concert. How do you feel about that, you
:29:01. > :29:05.have worked long and hard on your music, you want people to live in
:29:05. > :29:08.the moment don't you? Well hopefully they are still enjoying
:29:08. > :29:12.the concert. But it is just, it is not like it was when I was a
:29:12. > :29:16.teenager for sure I don't think. What happened then, those many
:29:16. > :29:23.years ago! People jumped around and were very engaged in the
:29:23. > :29:27.performance. Not Twitter and Facebook, without
:29:27. > :29:31.them we wouldn't be where we are, we started off on Twitter. Hello
:29:31. > :29:36.I'm Marcus Brigstocke, mostly I'm a comedian, today I'm filming myself
:29:36. > :29:41.on one of these on one of these whilst being filmed by one of these
:29:41. > :29:47.at the same time. And that's what I will be talking about, how
:29:47. > :29:50.fatastically annoying people like me are. Marcus Brigstocke
:29:50. > :29:57.definitely doesn't welcome smartphones at his gigs. It is a
:29:57. > :30:01.way of hoovering up his material, for one thing. Do you let all this
:30:01. > :30:05.wash over you or what do you do? When I'm on stage I bring it up and
:30:05. > :30:15.get the person to stop. If they don't stop straight away then I go
:30:15. > :30:20.for them. When I played King Arthur in Spamalot, there was a night in
:30:20. > :30:25.Oxford where you unsheathed Ecalibur, I'm not proud, I held my
:30:25. > :30:27.sword alot of and threatened to sever a man's arm. I can't believe
:30:27. > :30:32.through the conversation you have been filming it, really
:30:32. > :30:36.disrespective, I thought this was a genuine experience! We thought we
:30:36. > :30:44.would gorilla it! See -- guerrilla it and see what happens? Do you
:30:44. > :30:51.even know what that means? No!I'm Dr Jay Watts, I'm a clinical
:30:51. > :30:58.psychology and psychotherapist, specialising in narcissism within
:30:58. > :31:02.cyberspace. Surrounded by entries for this year's BP Portrait Award
:31:02. > :31:07.at the National Gallery, Dr Watts identifies a generation gap.
:31:07. > :31:12.There has been a real cultural shift, where especially young
:31:12. > :31:16.people, the called digital natives, men and women born after 1980,
:31:16. > :31:20.really sometimes have almost an idea that one doesn't experience
:31:20. > :31:25.something unless one represents it. And the representation increasingly
:31:25. > :31:31.is on cyberspace. So it is pictures of an event, it is tweeting about
:31:31. > :31:35.an event. And really that has become such a new way of thinking
:31:35. > :31:39.that people share straight away almost addicted to the kind of hit,
:31:39. > :31:47.hit, hit of people liking and reinforcing what one has been
:31:47. > :31:51.through. This is a place to pause, study,
:31:51. > :31:55.reflect. Smartphones are taboo, or so you might think. In fact the
:31:55. > :32:02.gallery is considering allowing them and its director is a bit of a
:32:02. > :32:06.fan. I think at certain moments getting out a smartphone actually
:32:06. > :32:09.will make some people look more closely. As long as it is not the
:32:09. > :32:12.only thing. As long as people do things around it to savour the
:32:12. > :32:16.moment and think of the moment. I don't think it is a substitute for
:32:16. > :32:24.memory, I think it can maybe enhance it. It makes people to
:32:24. > :32:29.think about why they wanted that moment and the image mattered.
:32:29. > :32:35.People who meet the Queen often say it is an experience they will never
:32:35. > :32:40.forget. But if they spend a moment taking pictures, what is it exactly
:32:40. > :32:49.that they will remember? To discuss some of those points we are joined
:32:49. > :32:52.by the technology journalist and broadcaster all election Krutofsky
:32:52. > :32:55.and novelist. Why are people doing this? It is way to document
:32:55. > :32:59.themselves and document the worlds around them. Document themselves?
:32:59. > :33:04.Absolutely. It is a first person perspective, isn't T whether you
:33:04. > :33:07.are taking a photograph of yourself, a selfie, or taking a photograph of
:33:07. > :33:10.your surroundings, it is a first- person adventure that you are
:33:10. > :33:15.capturing. What do you think? agree it is people documenting
:33:15. > :33:18.themselves. I also think it is a sign of cultural anxiousness. We
:33:18. > :33:28.have been through a period of a couple of hundred years where the
:33:28. > :33:34.self has been very important to us, and in tearority we arep told by
:33:34. > :33:39.modern novelist we should be looking into the subjects and we
:33:39. > :33:43.have found there is not much there maybe! We are at a moment where
:33:43. > :33:45.maybe we are not trusting something actually happened unless it is
:33:45. > :33:48.shared. Proving the girl waiting for the popstars said you have to
:33:48. > :33:53.prove it! You have to prove that you did that. That is what those
:33:53. > :33:56.people were doing with the Queen. The actual experience of being in
:33:56. > :34:02.the vicinity of the Queen is probably quite bland. But you want
:34:02. > :34:07.to be somebody who has been near the Queen. That makes it more bland
:34:07. > :34:12.if all you have of the event is some image on a smartphone. That's
:34:12. > :34:15.the terrible horror and emptiness of post-modernity. There was
:34:15. > :34:19.something interesting that the National Portrait Gallery owner
:34:19. > :34:23.described when he was talking about the exhibition, and he said it will
:34:23. > :34:26.allow people to look more closely at something, a portrait or an
:34:26. > :34:29.image. Part of the experience of capturing something like that on
:34:29. > :34:33.your smartphone, these things happen in a split second. The Queen
:34:33. > :34:37.walks by. Save it for later. You can. The Queen walks by you blink
:34:37. > :34:39.and you miss it, this way you can see it, it is slightly different
:34:40. > :34:43.from the person next to you, that is unique. That is interesting, you
:34:43. > :34:47.can have a conversation about that. Then you take it away, not only
:34:47. > :34:52.bragging rights, yes I was there, but also you can take a closer look
:34:52. > :34:57.and really experience it a bit more. As a memory trigger for whatever
:34:57. > :35:03.was going on at that time. In the same way that we have taken as long
:35:03. > :35:09.as we have been able to take photos we have been capturing content, we
:35:09. > :35:13.happen to be putting it into a digital medium as opposed to a an
:35:13. > :35:18.album that we stick in a dusty corner. And don't look at for 20
:35:18. > :35:22.years? Absolutely, they are memory triggers in the same way objects we
:35:22. > :35:27.acquire, snow globe or themables that we collect when we are
:35:27. > :35:29.travelling. It is the same thing that will transport us
:35:29. > :35:33.psychologically, intellectually, back to a particular time where we
:35:33. > :35:36.were, when we were, when those things were capturing. If you don't
:35:36. > :35:42.look at it what's the point? What's the point of having the little
:35:42. > :35:47.themables or the snow globes you got when you - themable or snow
:35:47. > :35:50.globes you got on holiday. At least it will sit on your mantle piece
:35:50. > :35:53.and you know where you got the ridiculous thing? If you are in the
:35:53. > :35:57.pub or down at the library or at school and you pick up your phone
:35:57. > :36:07.and you flick through and you can compare and share with the people
:36:07. > :36:09.
:36:09. > :36:12.that you are with. Say here I was. It is all about showing off? It is
:36:12. > :36:16.creating an identity and capturing a sense of the self as a narrative.
:36:16. > :36:19.Where you were as an individual back then and where you are going
:36:20. > :36:25.now. I sense a degree of intellectual scepticism? All we
:36:25. > :36:28.have been doing is talking about what photography is. We have always
:36:28. > :36:32.done that. What is interesting is behaviour has changed and the sheer
:36:32. > :36:35.volume of material we are creating has changed. Virtually some
:36:35. > :36:40.extraordinary percentage of all the photographs that have ever been
:36:40. > :36:44.taken have been taken in the last three or four years since cellphone
:36:44. > :36:47.cameras became ubiquitous. My concern is that not so much with
:36:47. > :36:53.people taking photographs, let everybody take as many as pe they
:36:53. > :36:55.want. But it is with the -- as many as they want. But it is our
:36:55. > :37:04.collision through photography, through network technologies of
:37:04. > :37:08.various kinds in making a kind of eye penopticon that we are now
:37:08. > :37:13.living in a world where we are always on, where there is always at
:37:13. > :37:17.least the potential of being watched and of being recorded, of
:37:17. > :37:22.our behaviour not being private or interior, being something that we
:37:22. > :37:26.are performing. This isn't nice?I don't think it is nice at all. I
:37:26. > :37:31.think the cultural conversation about it is lagging behind the
:37:31. > :37:35.technology a long way. The notion of performing is a new thing, we
:37:35. > :37:39.stick a particular T-shirt on and we walk down the street. We perform
:37:39. > :37:42.every time we use particular lingo. We indicate and express to other
:37:42. > :37:47.people, whoever they may be, that we are part of a particular group.
:37:47. > :37:50.I think that's part of what's going on. How it is evolving and how it
:37:50. > :37:54.is being captured and how we deal with it in the long-term is
:37:54. > :37:59.something that's certainly up for discussion, and we need to develop
:37:59. > :38:02.that conversation. Thank you both of you. What
:38:02. > :38:04.responsibility do we owe to asylum- seeker, it is a question which
:38:04. > :38:09.almost every wealthier country in the world has to answer.
:38:09. > :38:13.Historically, as the land of second chances, Australia, the called
:38:13. > :38:18."lucky country" was built on immigration. But the same question
:38:18. > :38:20.has raised even more livid questions than here. They cooked up
:38:20. > :38:24.a mechanism called the Pacific solution, which meant that people
:38:24. > :38:28.who had risked their lives crossing the world to get to Australia ended
:38:28. > :38:37.up being held not in Australia at all, but on an island in another
:38:37. > :38:42.country all together. Our reporter has had exclusive access.
:38:42. > :38:46.We are not animal, we are human. These remote tropical island
:38:46. > :38:48.detention centres were supposed to be a thing of the past. But now
:38:48. > :38:54.they are back at the centre of Australia's toxic immigration
:38:54. > :39:01.debate. They are intended as a deterrent,
:39:01. > :39:10.to stop boat people heading for Australian shores. A perilous
:39:10. > :39:13.journey which for scores has ended in disaster and death. But the
:39:13. > :39:20.policy known as the Pacific solution has been slammed for being
:39:20. > :39:24.inhumane. We have become the first news organisation to gain access to
:39:24. > :39:28.a detention centre where asylum seekers from Sri Lanka, Afghanistan,
:39:28. > :39:34.Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, and the Palestinian territories are being
:39:34. > :39:37.held. But are its new low- constructed
:39:37. > :39:45.accommodation blocks easing the psychological pain of indefinite
:39:45. > :39:49.detention. In tackling its boat people problem,
:39:49. > :39:54.the biggest power in the South Pacific has looked to its smallest
:39:54. > :39:59.neighbour for help. Nauru is one of the tiniest Republics in the world,
:39:59. > :40:04.and also the most remote. In the hey day of its mining boom in the
:40:04. > :40:10.1970s and 1980s, it was per capita one of the richest nations in the
:40:10. > :40:16.world. Nowadays it is one of the poorest.
:40:16. > :40:19.So despite its tropical setting and swaying palms, it is far from
:40:19. > :40:29.paradise. Its jagged coastline reinforces a sense of isolation and
:40:29. > :40:31.
:40:31. > :40:35.enclosure. Last September 30 Sri Lankan asylum
:40:35. > :40:40.seekers touched down here. The first to arrive since the Labour
:40:40. > :40:44.Government shut down the Howard era detention centre in 2007. With no
:40:44. > :40:54.time to build a proper detention centre, the asylum seekers were
:40:54. > :40:55.
:40:55. > :41:00.housed initially in army tents. The most makeshift of accommodation.
:41:00. > :41:03.Keiren Keke, a trained doctor, is Nauru's former Foreign Minister. He
:41:03. > :41:09.says the timetable imposed by the Australian Government was
:41:09. > :41:13.ridiculous. There was a very, very strong push to have a centre
:41:13. > :41:20.operating in whatever form, as quickly as possible. This was a bit
:41:20. > :41:23.of a rush job? It was too quick, the set-up was too quick. Our
:41:23. > :41:29.Government told the Australians that we felt it was too quick. In
:41:29. > :41:33.any of the discussions that we had previously the minimum time frames
:41:33. > :41:37.that we are talking about were three months to be able to have
:41:37. > :41:42.some basic facility operating. And certainly ouric pecktation was more
:41:42. > :41:46.on the lines of -- our expectation was six months to have more of a
:41:46. > :41:55.significant fashion and operation, to have something up within a month
:41:55. > :41:59.was really unrealistic. We have seen the consequences of that.
:41:59. > :42:03.wasn't long before daily protests erupted, as these pictures filmed
:42:03. > :42:07.secretly, and first broadcast on the Australian broadcasting
:42:07. > :42:15.corporation show. The conditions are intensely hot and humid. The
:42:15. > :42:21.centre's tent city was overcrowded. The uncertainty of indefinite
:42:21. > :42:25.detention inflicted psychological damage. For some it was unbearable.
:42:25. > :42:30.Asylum seekers sewed together their lips in silent protest, sometimes
:42:30. > :42:36.using paper clips as needles. There have also been suicide attempts.
:42:36. > :42:42.This man, whose identity we can't reveal tried to hang himself. His
:42:42. > :42:48.neck was badly injured. This worker from inside the camp, who wants to
:42:48. > :42:51.protect his identity was appalled by what he saw. The men are
:42:51. > :42:55.frustrated in Nauru, there is a sense of helplessness and
:42:55. > :43:01.desperation. For many of them the way they express this frustration
:43:01. > :43:05.is through self-harm and suicide attempts. One man said to me "we
:43:05. > :43:10.can choose to take it out on other people but we don't, we take it out
:43:10. > :43:15.upon ourselves to express our pain". Men are cutting themselves, burning
:43:15. > :43:20.themselves with cigarettes. We have had men attempt to commit suicide
:43:20. > :43:24.using bed sheets, using the ropes off tents. For them they see no
:43:24. > :43:27.future and they see no hope of leaving. They have been in Nauru
:43:27. > :43:35.for nine months and they have no idea if it will be another nine
:43:35. > :43:41.months or another three years or another five years. The track
:43:41. > :43:48.inland to the detention centre passes through the island's
:43:48. > :43:53.phosphate mining fields. A landscape that is eerie and hostile.
:43:53. > :44:00.Then there is the thick jungle that separates and camouflages it from
:44:00. > :44:03.the outside world. Up until now the journey for those covering the
:44:03. > :44:08.Pacific solution beat has stopped here at the entrance. The
:44:08. > :44:14.Australian Government has imposed the strict media ban. We have
:44:14. > :44:18.become the first news organisation to be allowed inside. Australia's
:44:18. > :44:24.department for immigration clearly wanted us to see how Nauru's tent
:44:24. > :44:28.city has been replaced by permanent accommodation. The $100 million
:44:28. > :44:31.project has been designed, not so much with comfort in mind, but
:44:32. > :44:35.certainly more civility. Under the strict stipulations of our visit,
:44:35. > :44:39.we are not allowed to identify anyone in the centre. Although one
:44:39. > :44:46.of the Australian Government's chief concerns about letting us in
:44:46. > :44:50.was that it would look too nice, negating its deterrent effect.
:44:50. > :44:56.There is no fence or razor wire, but the jungle creates a natural
:44:56. > :45:01.barrier. It is currently home for over 400 people, all of them men,
:45:01. > :45:05.again we are not allowed to show their faces, in case their asylum
:45:05. > :45:11.claims are rejected and they are sent home. Over 90% of boat people
:45:11. > :45:16.turn out to be bona fide refugees. They are subject to the Australian
:45:16. > :45:20.Government's new "no advantage" principle, which could see boat
:45:20. > :45:25.people detained for up to five years, so they aren't seen asylum
:45:25. > :45:29.seeking queue jumpers. What we want to do apparently is to make sure
:45:29. > :45:33.selves look even less desirable than the Taliban. Julian Burnside
:45:33. > :45:37.is one of Australia's leading human rights lawyers, and represents a
:45:37. > :45:41.number of boat people held on Nauru. We want people to prefer to face
:45:41. > :45:46.the Taliban than to face us. I'm not sure I want to see my country
:45:46. > :45:49.fall that low and yet that seems to be the course they are following.
:45:49. > :45:53.If the Pacific solution is supposed to be a deterrent, it will only
:45:53. > :45:58.work as long as everyone who sets out knows about it, that is not a
:45:58. > :46:06.certainty by any means, and we have to look more frightening than the
:46:06. > :46:10.perils they are escaping. Unbeknown to these young Nauruan, their
:46:10. > :46:20.island has become part of Australia's political game, and a
:46:20. > :46:26.brutal one for that. With an election set for December, border
:46:26. > :46:30.issues are serious, it is seen as a vote-winner. The revival of the
:46:30. > :46:34.Pacific solution for Australians is an embarrassing reversal. When
:46:34. > :46:39.ministers ended the policy they described it as cynical and costly
:46:39. > :46:43.and ultimately unsuccessful exercise. But the Gillard
:46:43. > :46:46.Government fears being seen soft on asylum-seeker, especially at a time
:46:46. > :46:51.when one of the Conservative politicians most ringing slogans is
:46:51. > :46:54."stop the boats", the return to the Pacific solution was born of
:46:54. > :46:58.political weakness. The trouble is the tough policy hasn't stopped the
:46:58. > :47:05.Government slide in the polls, and even more crucially it hasn't
:47:05. > :47:09.stopped the boats. Since announcing its controversial new approach over
:47:09. > :47:14.21,000 asylum seekers have been intercepted in Australian waters.
:47:14. > :47:20.In 340 boats. So the embattled Labour Government
:47:20. > :47:24.is itself all at sea. For its Conservative opponents, Nauru is
:47:24. > :47:28.part of a failed border protection strategy. For many on the
:47:28. > :47:36.Australian left the detention centre stands as a landmark to
:47:36. > :47:41.their country's heartlessness towards boat people.
:47:41. > :47:51.We asked the Australian Government for a response to his report, but
:47:51. > :47:57.
:47:57. > :48:00.they declined. That's all we have Good evening, we have one more
:48:00. > :48:03.humid night on the way, from Friday night it will be a little bit
:48:03. > :48:07.fresher. As far as Friday goes, it is going to be quite a good day
:48:07. > :48:10.across the majority of the UK, sunshine around. Maybe one or two
:48:10. > :48:13.showers, but essentially it is a fine day, however later on in the
:48:13. > :48:17.day there will be thicker cloud and some rain getting in just to the
:48:17. > :48:21.west of Northern Ireland. For Scotland, this is 4.00, plenty of
:48:21. > :48:27.sunshine around the north, maybe a couple of light sprinkles of rain,
:48:27. > :48:32.nothing more than that. Across the border, England, Pennines, here are
:48:32. > :48:35.the isolated showers -- thundery, maybe even heavy in one or two
:48:35. > :48:38.places. The vast majority of the country across the south of the UK
:48:38. > :48:41.will enjoy the fine weather. For a lot of us it will feel warmer
:48:41. > :48:45.because we are going to have a bit more sunshine compared to what we
:48:45. > :48:49.have just had today. You can see the fine weather extends into the
:48:49. > :48:52.south west and Wales too. A scattering of cloud here and there.
:48:52. > :48:55.Fresher on the boast around 15 degrees, let's have a look at the
:48:55. > :48:58.end of the week and into the weekend and other places. Belfast
:48:58. > :49:02.it does freshen up here by the time we get to Saturday. Temperatures
:49:02. > :49:07.dip down to 15 degrees, the wind will be stronger too, the same goes
:49:07. > :49:11.for many other areas, the big temperature drop in Birmingham from