:00:16. > :00:20.Labour's biggest donor broken the law, tonight the police have been
:00:20. > :00:23.asked to find out. One seat has become a real test of strength.
:00:23. > :00:28.will have no part of the Labour Party, no part of the kind of
:00:28. > :00:32.politics we believe in, and no kind of politics that I think Len
:00:33. > :00:37.McCluskey should be believing in. chance for the leader to show his
:00:37. > :00:41.metal, or the Tories to draw blood. Also tonight, gunfire and clashes
:00:41. > :00:44.in the streets of Cairo, as the Muslim Brotherhood try to fight
:00:44. > :00:51.back. We will have the latest from the city tonight.
:00:51. > :00:59.Meet the man who sold his social networking site Bebo for $8950
:00:59. > :01:09.million and bought it back for just $1. Do you feel at all guilty about
:01:09. > :01:10.
:01:10. > :01:14.those people who suffered? I hadn't until now, not really.
:01:14. > :01:18.Good evening. The Labour Party has passed information to the police
:01:18. > :01:21.about whether its biggest donor, the union, Unite, has broken the
:01:21. > :01:24.law. The allegation is the union signed up scores of members, often
:01:24. > :01:28.without their knowledge in an attempt to win the selection in the
:01:28. > :01:32.safe Labour seat of Falkirk. Ed Miliband says he has acted
:01:32. > :01:35.decisively. The union boss, Len McCluskey, says he's giving into
:01:35. > :01:44.Tory hysteria. And the Conservatives, when they could drag
:01:44. > :01:48.themselves away from debating Europe, mostly kakled with delight.
:01:48. > :01:51.-- cackled with delight. Today threatened to be a mid-summer
:01:51. > :01:56.nightmare for Ed Miliband. While this lot lounged, the Labour leader
:01:56. > :02:02.felt a diefrpb kind of heat. Chancellor Eppinged to chastise
:02:02. > :02:05.Unite, the union, his biggest financial backers. With a hole
:02:05. > :02:08.blown in his election strategy with the resignation of the man in
:02:08. > :02:14.charge of it. For Ed Miliband, the last 48 hours haven't been a walk
:02:14. > :02:21.in the park. In the end he used the sunlight to his own advantage. To
:02:21. > :02:24.disinfect a political wound. Instead of defending these
:02:24. > :02:27.practices, Len McCluskey needs to face up to what happened in Falkirk.
:02:27. > :02:31.This can have no part of the Labour Party, and no part of the kind of
:02:31. > :02:33.politics we believe in, and no part of the kind of politics that Len
:02:33. > :02:37.McCluskey should be believing in. Instead of throwing allegations
:02:37. > :02:41.around in the way he is, he should be facing up to his responsibility,
:02:41. > :02:46.not to defend this kind of machine politics.
:02:46. > :02:51.That was Ed Miliband's strongest challenge yet to this man, Len
:02:51. > :02:56.McCluskey. Labour also handed to police the task of investigating
:02:56. > :02:59.whether individuals aligned to Unite sign people up to Labour to
:02:59. > :03:03.rig -- signed people up to Labour to rig the vote in Falkirk.
:03:03. > :03:06.McCluskey didn't back down. clearly disappointed that the
:03:06. > :03:14.developments back in London in relation to the Falkirk situation.
:03:14. > :03:20.It seems to me that the Labour leadership has now been caught up
:03:20. > :03:23.in anti-union Tory hysteria. Let's resolve the situation. We have
:03:23. > :03:26.Shadow Cabinet members saying Unite overstepped the mark. What does
:03:26. > :03:30.that mean? We asked too many of our members to join the Labour Party,
:03:30. > :03:34.we should have told them that the Labour Party was full up, perhaps?
:03:34. > :03:38.But McCluskey is used to disagreeing with Labour HQ. While
:03:38. > :03:41.Ed Miliband won the Labour leadership with a little help from
:03:42. > :03:46.union brothers, actually in his near three years as leader there
:03:46. > :03:51.have been frequent disagreements between himself and McCluskey. Ed
:03:51. > :03:55.Miliband has had rows with Unite, Labour's largest donor before. It
:03:55. > :03:58.doesn't harm him and makes him look like an independent chap. But it
:03:58. > :04:02.does come with some risks. The first is that ban Miliband thinks
:04:02. > :04:07.he might win a parliamentary majority -- Ed Miliband thinks he
:04:07. > :04:12.might win a parliamentary majority by winning a Labour majority.
:04:12. > :04:15.Bringing back all sorts of people that left before. By having rows
:04:15. > :04:18.with unions like Unite doesn't really help that. The second
:04:18. > :04:23.problem is this, Unite gives Labour a lot of money.
:04:23. > :04:27.One MP speaks for many of his Labour colleagues when he defends
:04:27. > :04:31.Unite. There is also some within the Labour Party who take the view
:04:31. > :04:34.that the trade unions are there to pay up and shut up. They are there
:04:34. > :04:38.to be passive, they are not there to be active or involved in the
:04:38. > :04:42.Labour Party, and as soon as some of the unions try to get what many
:04:42. > :04:46.of them would see as above themselves by actually having an
:04:46. > :04:50.involvement in selecting candidates they want to stamp on their heads.
:04:50. > :04:55.Disciplining Unite, but keeping them on side, Miliband must get it
:04:55. > :05:02.right, because politics at the moment is quite finely balanced.
:05:02. > :05:07.Since January Ipsos mori's poll has Labour's lead narrowing, the Tories
:05:08. > :05:13.are stable but UKIP hasn't had a bad six nooints -- months. There
:05:13. > :05:17.are suggestions some of the gains come about doubts on Labour. This
:05:17. > :05:21.week the Tories and Labour tried to turn weaknesses in advantages. For
:05:21. > :05:24.Labour it was the issue of the union link, for Tories it was
:05:24. > :05:29.Europe. While the sun shone David Cameron gathered all his MPs inside
:05:29. > :05:33.this building to vote for a referendum in 2017. The Tories had
:05:33. > :05:37.always promised that they wouldn't bang on about Europe, but with this
:05:37. > :05:41.vote today, many Tory MPs told me that this party is happier than
:05:41. > :05:50.they have been at any time since March 2012.
:05:50. > :05:55.Forget about Henman Hill or Murray Mount at Wimbledon, for one day in
:05:55. > :05:59.there it was Cameron's chamber. a time of profound change in Europe
:05:59. > :06:03.this bill would give the British people the power to deone of the
:06:03. > :06:06.greatest questions, whether we should be in or out of the EU. Must
:06:06. > :06:10.say in deference to my honourable friends in the Liberal Democrat
:06:10. > :06:16.party, that in this speech I'm not speaking for the whole coalition,
:06:16. > :06:21.as will be quite obvious toe the House, I'm speaking on behalf of
:06:21. > :06:25.the Conservative Party. Thank you Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the
:06:25. > :06:32.bill be read a second time. Mr Speaker it is an honour for me to
:06:32. > :06:36.put forward a bill that has at its heart the heart of our democracy.
:06:36. > :06:41.Power should reside with the people, Mr Speaker. In proposing this bill
:06:41. > :06:47.I speak for many in this House, but I speak for millions more outside
:06:47. > :06:53.of this place. But for now Ed Miliband, hoping he
:06:53. > :06:58.has shown the unions who is boss, and David Cameron, over Europe,
:06:58. > :07:05.letting his party boss him around. Different tactics, but the same aim,
:07:05. > :07:08.keeping their parties together through all kinds of weather.
:07:09. > :07:13.The Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna, is with me now, we
:07:13. > :07:18.will come to you in a moment, first the Energy Minister, Michael Fallon,
:07:18. > :07:23.amongst your titles. It was called Tory hysteria today, and the Tories
:07:23. > :07:26.seem excited about this. I wonder if any of this matters if it is an
:07:27. > :07:29.internal Labour problem snfplgt it is far worse than that, this is
:07:29. > :07:33.appallingly weak leadership by somebody who wants to be Prime
:07:33. > :07:36.Minister. He has known about the allegations for weeks, he has done
:07:36. > :07:40.nothing about it and finally referred them to the police only
:07:40. > :07:44.when he heard a Conservative MP was referring them to the police. We
:07:44. > :07:48.needs to act very quickly to make sure one union doesn't subvert the
:07:48. > :07:53.democratic process. We have discovered why he wouldn't do that,
:07:53. > :07:58.Unite are his paymaster, they got him elected, they gave him �8.5
:07:58. > :08:03.million last year and he's too weak to stand up to them. People have
:08:03. > :08:06.always rigged selections, it has been revealed Thatcher's own
:08:06. > :08:09.election has been rigged. It has been happening for years? It is one
:08:09. > :08:12.vote one person in the Conservative Party. If people have been signed
:08:12. > :08:16.up to vote to choose new MPs, without their knowledge, that is
:08:16. > :08:20.criminal activity. And the police should be investigating it.
:08:20. > :08:22.think that is criminal? If they have been signing people to vote
:08:22. > :08:25.without their knowledge to be members of the Labour Party to get
:08:25. > :08:30.their vote, that would be criminal and a matter for the police. What
:08:30. > :08:33.would the crime be? Being signed up without their knowledge, they have
:08:33. > :08:36.been impersonated. That is something the police should
:08:36. > :08:40.investigate and should have been investigating all along. He has had
:08:40. > :08:43.the allegations in front of him for weeks, he has done nothing about it,
:08:43. > :08:49.the contrast couldn't have been clearer, in Falkirk you have a
:08:49. > :08:52.democratic process being subverted where you won't have true one-
:08:52. > :08:59.person-one-vote, in the Commons you had David Cameron leading his party
:08:59. > :09:03.giving everybody in the party one- person-one-pert. That was hardly --
:09:03. > :09:07.Vote. You is in hock to his party, otherwise he wouldn't have this
:09:07. > :09:10.crazy bill that won't be brought into the election? There is nothing
:09:10. > :09:14.crazy about giving people the vote about staying in Europe or not.
:09:14. > :09:18.This came after UKIP pushed him to it, and after the Queen's Speech
:09:18. > :09:21.that didn't contain it. It is hardly strong leadership? It is a
:09:21. > :09:27.Private Members Bill paving the way for a vote in 2017. What did the
:09:27. > :09:29.Labour Party do? They didn't vote for it, they didn't vote against it,
:09:29. > :09:34.they couldn't decide whether to be in favour of a referendum origins
:09:34. > :09:41.it. That again is weak leadership. Let me ask your position with
:09:41. > :09:44.regard to the unions, do you think they have a pernicious effect on
:09:44. > :09:48.accomplish politics? If you have a procedure set out to organise
:09:48. > :09:51.selection in 40 constituencies, clearly they are trying to subvert
:09:51. > :09:56.the democratic process. That can't be right. Ed Miliband, if he's
:09:56. > :09:59.showing any new leadership at all should suspend the selection
:09:59. > :10:03.contest. You don't mind isolating union members that might vote
:10:03. > :10:07.Conservative. 30% of which we hear? This is not an attack on union
:10:07. > :10:12.members, this is a matter for a union leader who has decided to
:10:12. > :10:14.subvert the democratic process, to put his people into 40
:10:15. > :10:19.constituencies. 40 future Members of Parliament who will be passing
:10:19. > :10:23.laws. That can't be right. Michael Fallon thank you very much. To
:10:23. > :10:28.Chuka Umunna, I know you didn't want to enter into discussion with
:10:29. > :10:32.Michael Fallon. Let's just examine some of those points. Is this
:10:32. > :10:35.criminal activity, is what what you fear? We had an internal
:10:35. > :10:39.investigation carried out in the party, it is totally untrue to say
:10:39. > :10:44.no action has been taken on this for weeks. In mid-May, hours after
:10:44. > :10:50.the leadership were informed of the allegations of irregularities in
:10:50. > :10:56.that selection contest it was suspended He has only just gone to
:10:56. > :10:59.the police in the last 24 hours, has there been possible criminal
:10:59. > :11:03.activity? We have taken advice from the party solicitors and further to
:11:03. > :11:06.that advice decided to talk to the police. When did you decide it was
:11:07. > :11:10.a massive problem? Once the final report had been produced and
:11:10. > :11:13.further evidence came to light this week. It was the further evidence
:11:13. > :11:19.that triggered its referral to the police. On Tuesday when Matthew
:11:19. > :11:23.Watson offered to resign it wasn't a -- Tom Watson offered to resign
:11:23. > :11:27.and by Thursday Ed Miliband had sacked him? Tom is a distraction to
:11:27. > :11:30.this. It is about the strength of leadership and the clarity of
:11:30. > :11:33.thought, which Ed Miliband promised. Did he think wrong had been done
:11:33. > :11:36.before Tuesday? First of all, you have sought to establish a
:11:36. > :11:39.connection between whether or not this has been reported to the
:11:39. > :11:42.police and Tom Watson, I'm telling you there isn't. The thing that has
:11:42. > :11:46.triggered it being referred to the police is the fact there is further
:11:46. > :11:50.evidence that has come to light. Tom Watson still a member of the
:11:50. > :11:53.NEC tonight? I have no idea about that question, but I do know he has
:11:53. > :11:57.stepped down his role as the general election election co-
:11:57. > :12:04.ordinator. It is kind of critical to his position now whether he has
:12:04. > :12:09.resigned or not? A sub-committee of the NEC will decide on a timetable.
:12:09. > :12:12.Will you feel confident if Tom Watson was sitting on the NEC now?
:12:12. > :12:16.I don't believe he will have role in the process now. Labour's
:12:16. > :12:19.biggest donor may have acted criminally, that is what the police
:12:19. > :12:24.investigation is ultimately about, the General Secretary, Len
:12:24. > :12:28.McCluskey, says he has done nothing wrong. If this is proven criminal
:12:28. > :12:32.activity, should Len McCluskey go? Let's see the extent of anybody.
:12:32. > :12:36.This is not about Len McCluskey, two individuals were suspended this
:12:36. > :12:41.week, who had been involved in that particular selection. I'm not aware
:12:41. > :12:44.that Len McCluskey was directly involved. So you have complete
:12:44. > :12:48.faith in Len McCluskey, The Dark Knight leader? I haven't seen all
:12:48. > :12:53.the details of the report. I know its conclusions and I know it is
:12:53. > :12:58.referred to the police. Do you have faith in him as the union leader,
:12:58. > :13:02.your biggest donor? In relation to Len McCluskey's position in Unite,
:13:03. > :13:09.that is an issue for Unite. I'm concerned about taking strong and
:13:09. > :13:12.swift action for a situation that has arisen in one of our 650
:13:12. > :13:17.constituency parties and we have seen swift action taken. Do you
:13:17. > :13:19.think Labour would like to be Leeds dependant on union leaders. Are you
:13:19. > :13:23.reviewing now your relationship with the unions? We don't just have
:13:23. > :13:27.a relationship with the unions. have lots of relationships, what
:13:27. > :13:31.about the one we are discussing tonight. Let me finish my sentence.
:13:31. > :13:35.Can you answer that one? I'm trying to. There are lots of affiliates to
:13:35. > :13:39.the Labour Party and lots of different people part of the party.
:13:39. > :13:45.I'm brought of that. Let's not forget what we are talking about,
:13:46. > :13:51.members of the trade union, if we were ill and an ambulance arrived,
:13:51. > :13:57.a trade union member would come to help us and our children are taught
:13:57. > :14:01.by trade union members. Vince Cable has worked with the senior
:14:01. > :14:04.management of GM Vauxhall and management to keep British jobs in
:14:04. > :14:09.this country. Are you reviewing that close relationship between the
:14:09. > :14:13.unions and Labour, is that wrong? I'm not aware of any review that is
:14:13. > :14:18.going on into Labour's relationship with the trade unions. It is not a
:14:18. > :14:21.review that is needed? No, because we engage with a broad spectrum of
:14:21. > :14:24.stakeholders in our party to come up with policy. We seek to govern
:14:24. > :14:29.in the interests of the British people. I don't believe it is a
:14:29. > :14:32.huge issue. For example, do we charge donors �100,000, whatever it
:14:32. > :14:35.is to have kitchen supper with our leader, we don't do anything like
:14:35. > :14:40.that. I'm afraid we have to end it there,
:14:40. > :14:45.thank you very much. Coming up.
:14:45. > :14:48.Do you think they massively overpaid? They did, yeah. But
:14:48. > :14:54.hindsight is a wonderful thing. sold his company for almost a
:14:54. > :15:01.billion dollars and then he bought it back.
:15:01. > :15:06.Chaos on the streets of Cairo tonight, supporters of the ousted
:15:06. > :15:09.President, Mohamed Morsi, have gathered outside the city. The
:15:09. > :15:14.members of the Muslim Brotherhood have rejected the military coup,
:15:14. > :15:19.and they call them the usurping authorities. In a day of rumour,
:15:19. > :15:22.skirmishes and bloodshed, the Egyptian army has deployed tanks
:15:22. > :15:28.and roadblocks, demonstrators have been gunned down by the army, five
:15:28. > :15:31.police officers are said to have been shot. I spoke to Jeremy Bowman
:15:31. > :15:35.who was injured slightly today in a demonstration? Big demonstrations
:15:35. > :15:39.today from the Muslim Brotherhood, a very long and impassioned prayer
:15:39. > :15:45.at the mosque which they have made one of the centres of their protest.
:15:45. > :15:51.Lots and lot of men with tears pouring down their face as the
:15:51. > :15:56.cleric leading them prayed to God for guidance and help through what
:15:56. > :16:01.they say the prayer said was their ordeal. After that, when
:16:01. > :16:06.demonstrations and marches began I was at a military compound when the
:16:06. > :16:10.army opened fire on the crowd and killed at least one man. I saw one
:16:10. > :16:15.dead body there. Reports of two others at that particular place as
:16:15. > :16:20.well. And there is a real sense now that this coup is starting to get
:16:20. > :16:24.pretty messy. How do you judge the situation tonight? Definitely messy.
:16:24. > :16:30.Very messy and bloody as well. Fears that there could be more of
:16:30. > :16:34.it. It is not just in Cairo, in many other cities, and it has been
:16:34. > :16:37.particularly serious violence we are told from the second city,
:16:37. > :16:40.Alexandria. The chances are that the Muslim Brotherhood will want to
:16:41. > :16:45.keep their people on the streets to show their strength on the streets
:16:46. > :16:49.for a few days more. They have said they would like to keep their
:16:49. > :16:55.people out until President Morsi is reinstated. Other Islamist parties
:16:55. > :16:58.are trying to form a bridge between the Brotherhood and the army,
:16:58. > :17:04.making proposals, one of which is for a referendum on early elections.
:17:04. > :17:07.It is early days on that though. This remains a very difficult
:17:07. > :17:16.emergency for the Egyptian people. The kind of nightmare they really
:17:16. > :17:18.didn't want. Joining me now is the former Brigadier who also teaches
:17:18. > :17:23.international law at Cairo university. Thank you very much for
:17:23. > :17:27.joining us. What do you make of the position of
:17:27. > :17:34.the Muslim Brotherhood who simply refuse to accept the position of
:17:34. > :17:44.the army? This actually to tell you the truth the shocking and
:17:44. > :17:45.
:17:45. > :17:55.appalling news for the second wave of the 25th revolution is the shock
:17:55. > :17:55.
:17:55. > :18:00.ing address levelled by the doctor, who (inaudible) for the Muslim
:18:00. > :18:04.Brotherhood in Egypt their supporters and the party of the
:18:04. > :18:10.deposed President Dr Morsi, I would like to tell you that there have
:18:10. > :18:17.been many allegations and claims from the Muslim Brotherhood and the
:18:17. > :18:24.supporters that the army stands here in Egypt not neutral, that it
:18:24. > :18:29.is biased and prejudice, they claim the army is one-sided towards the
:18:29. > :18:35.revolution against them. But militarily speaking I would like to
:18:35. > :18:42.confirm that from credible military sources of information that the
:18:42. > :18:47.rules of engagment have been directed to the army forces and are
:18:47. > :18:57.special rules of engagment towards and targeting the Muslim
:18:57. > :18:57.
:18:57. > :19:03.Brotherhood and the Salafist movement, to the largest
:19:03. > :19:13.excontinuity on the other hand they apply the strict rules of engage to
:19:13. > :19:21.the other parties. One important thing, confirming that an hour ago
:19:21. > :19:25.General Wasfi is the chiefer or the commander of the second -- chief or
:19:25. > :19:29.commander of the second wave in Egypt. The Egyptian military has
:19:29. > :19:35.said tonight it will intervene if this continues. What does that
:19:35. > :19:42.mean? What do you understand by intervention? Intervention means
:19:42. > :19:47.that there is a very tense situation between the Muslim
:19:47. > :19:52.movement, parties on the one hand and the secular, liberal, human
:19:53. > :20:01.rights and also the revolutionists on the other. Intervention means
:20:01. > :20:08.that the army is not going to have a one-sided stance, or stand. This
:20:08. > :20:17.means the intervention. I would like to confirm what has been also
:20:17. > :20:22.targeted and addressed by the removal statement of General El Sis,
:20:22. > :20:26.the chief of the army. He said they do not seek power and they are not
:20:26. > :20:31.going to assume control, they will withdrew and that is what has
:20:31. > :20:38.happened, the next day, when yesterday the interim President of
:20:38. > :20:41.Egypt, he assumed control, temporarily for an expeditious and
:20:41. > :20:46.early presidential and parliamentary elections which are
:20:46. > :20:52.going to settle down and calm down the whole situation, the tense
:20:52. > :20:56.situation here in Egypt. Is there room in these new parliamentary
:20:56. > :21:06.elections for a candidate from the Muslim Brotherhood? What if they
:21:06. > :21:08.
:21:08. > :21:12.have put forward the President again? No ex cushion, because -- No
:21:12. > :21:17.exclusion, and last year the proposed President Morsi, he and
:21:17. > :21:23.his group applied all sorts of the exclusiveness in the Egyptian
:21:23. > :21:29.society. He excluded the other parties from the constituent
:21:29. > :21:36.assembly, the parliament, et cetera. That's why the Egyptian army forces
:21:36. > :21:42.confirm it in other following statements to the statement by his
:21:42. > :21:45.excellency the chief of the army. They confirmed that no exclusion
:21:45. > :21:51.for Muslim movements here in Egypt. Thank you very much indeed. We
:21:51. > :21:55.appreciate your time tonight. Anyone remember Bebo? It was the
:21:55. > :21:59.social networking site that became big, biggish, shortly before
:21:59. > :22:05.Facebook took the world by storm. It spent the last few years in the
:22:05. > :22:08.doldrums, this week it was bought for a $1 million, by the couple who
:22:08. > :22:14.originally created and sold it at the top of the market. What does it
:22:14. > :22:20.pay about AOL, the company that paid $850 million for it but
:22:20. > :22:27.couldn't make it work. Ever heard of a backronym, it is an acronym
:22:27. > :22:31.applied after the name's invention, and in Bebo's case it is "blog
:22:31. > :22:36.early blog often", people haven't been blogging often enough. Step in
:22:36. > :22:41.this man, Michael Birch, with a million dollars to spare and ideas
:22:41. > :22:48.to reinvent the site, he should find it no trouble. He and his wife
:22:48. > :22:54.created Bebo in 1985, turning its popularity into a sale for AOL for
:22:54. > :22:59.a whopping and you could argue unwise $850 million in 2008. AOL
:22:59. > :23:03.failed to build on the success. By the end of the decade sites such as
:23:03. > :23:09.Facebook and Twitter were ahead of the game. AOL sold Bebo for a
:23:09. > :23:14.fraction of what it paid to a company that failed to turn around
:23:14. > :23:21.its fortune, Michael Birch has his work cut out if he's to make it
:23:21. > :23:26.cool again. Turning to the other web, he said "can we reinvent it?
:23:26. > :23:30.Who knows, but we can only try". Do you feel like you have your baby
:23:30. > :23:36.back? Yes, I did miss it when I sold it, now we are back in control
:23:36. > :23:41.it feels exciting. Is it a very different beast it time around?
:23:41. > :23:46.is very different from what we sold it, the traffic is 1,000th from
:23:46. > :23:50.when we sold it. Why did it go badly wrong? To be fair it was
:23:50. > :23:54.going badly wrong beforehand. That was why we sold it. It was in a
:23:54. > :23:57.very competitive market, Facebook were really starting to beat you,
:23:57. > :24:01.the writing was on the wall. Although the traffic wasn't going
:24:01. > :24:04.down, we did everything we could to increase the traffic and we failed
:24:04. > :24:10.for six months. You must have been laughing all the way to the bank.
:24:10. > :24:14.This has been called the worse deal in dotcom history? I don't know if
:24:14. > :24:18.that is a good or bad thing. We were relieved all the way to the
:24:18. > :24:23.bank, I don't think we were laughing. Do you think they
:24:23. > :24:29.massively overpaid? They did, yeah. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
:24:29. > :24:33.If you cast your mind back to that period we were the biggest Bible
:24:34. > :24:37.social network at the time, so Facebook were too big to be bought,
:24:37. > :24:41.and MySpace had already been bought, we were the next big opportunity,
:24:41. > :24:44.could you take that and make it something really amazing, they
:24:44. > :24:48.hoped they could. They lost interest soon after they bought the
:24:48. > :24:52.business. They decided themselves it was a mistake and they properly
:24:52. > :24:56.said so and that demotivated the staff at bee bow, at that point it
:24:56. > :25:01.really didn't have a chance. you feel angry that they didn't
:25:01. > :25:06.make that work? Or did you feel slightly guilty that you had sold
:25:06. > :25:10.them a duff secondhand car? I would have loved to have seen it be
:25:10. > :25:16.successful. If you said would you rather regret selling it because it
:25:16. > :25:20.became a success or rather be happy you sold at the right time. I would
:25:20. > :25:23.rather reing selling it and this thing that went on to greatness.
:25:23. > :25:27.Given the choice I would choose that. I was a little bit sorry it
:25:27. > :25:30.didn't work out. Do you feel apologetic in terms of the
:25:30. > :25:33.investment made and the price that was made and presumably the knock-
:25:33. > :25:37.on to the pensions that have suffered as a result of that?
:25:37. > :25:45.are trying to make me feel guilty now. I hadn't done until now. No,
:25:45. > :25:49.not really. What does Bebo become now? It is still a pretty crowded
:25:49. > :25:53.market place? It is more crowded than ever. We have this luxury of
:25:53. > :25:56.reinventing it to be whatever it makes sense to be. And what made
:25:56. > :26:01.sense eight years ago isn't what makes sense today. The world has
:26:01. > :26:07.moved on a lot. Now it is a mobile world, we are developing initially
:26:07. > :26:11.probably only for iPhone and Andrews void and even the web, it
:26:11. > :26:16.is questionable even with the web if we would do that. To be radical,
:26:16. > :26:19.why would I not bother with Facebook or Twitter or the market
:26:19. > :26:23.dominant ones? It is not about not bothering with emthis. It is not
:26:23. > :26:28.trying to build a website where people cancel Twitter or Facebook
:26:28. > :26:33.and use the new ones. Things co- exist, use Twitter and Facebook,
:26:33. > :26:36.and I will continue to use them after we relaunch Bebo. They serve
:26:36. > :26:40.a purpose and time and place. We are trying to take a blank sheet of
:26:40. > :26:44.paper and think what can we build or design that we think will be
:26:44. > :26:48.relevant today that will stand the test of time that isn't a fad, that
:26:48. > :26:53.service some utility and purpose but is also just fun and engaging
:26:53. > :26:59.for users to use. Do you think it has become harder for social media
:26:59. > :27:04.sites to retain their consumers' trust? Have it become harder? I
:27:04. > :27:08.think it has always been quite hard. When we were running Bebo I spent
:27:08. > :27:12.most of my interviews talking about privacy concerns. As long as you
:27:12. > :27:16.are aware of the sites that you use and how that information is shared
:27:16. > :27:20.I feel comfortable using them. I do use them actively. I think the
:27:20. > :27:25.difficulty is sometimes the smoke and mirrors of not really
:27:25. > :27:29.understanding the cons sequences of taking a certain action -- cons
:27:29. > :27:33.sequences of taking certain action, we speak to our children about
:27:33. > :27:38.social media and how they should go using them. It is more education
:27:38. > :27:42.than a threat from the beast of the internet. Will you seek to make
:27:42. > :27:46.Bebo very profitable? It is the last thing on my mind right now. We
:27:46. > :27:50.are not in any hurry to make it profitable. Obviously we can't run
:27:50. > :27:52.a business forever as a charity. Because it is not a charity. So it
:27:52. > :27:56.does have to eventually make a profit. Our aim is to build
:27:56. > :28:03.something that people love. If we can succeed in that we know we will
:28:03. > :28:13.have a successful business. Let me just take you through the papers
:28:13. > :28:13.
:28:13. > :29:16.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 62 seconds
:29:16. > :29:20.That's all we have time for tonight, Jeremy is back on Monday. Tomorrow
:29:20. > :29:27.morning the British and Irish Lions team try to win the test against
:29:27. > :29:37.Australia. Here at Newsnight we have decided to copy the Wells ---
:29:37. > :29:40.
:29:40. > :29:49.# Pilgrims through this barren land # I am weak
:29:49. > :29:59.# But though art mighty # Hold me with Thai powerful hand
:29:59. > :30:09.# Bread of heaven # Feed me now and ever more
:30:09. > :30:10.
:30:11. > :30:18.Feed me now It is said to be a lovely weekend
:30:18. > :30:21.for the vast majority. Sunny skies from the whole of England and Wales.
:30:21. > :30:23.But for Northern Ireland and western parts of Scotland wet
:30:23. > :30:28.weather. Some cloud for Northern Ireland too through the afternoon.
:30:28. > :30:31.But with the brightness 23 degrees in Belfast. The south and east of
:30:31. > :30:34.Scotland not too bad, it is the west of Scotland that will be
:30:34. > :30:40.plaged by cloud and outbreak of rain. Further south through England
:30:40. > :30:44.and Wales a lot of sunshine, strong sun shine, warm sunshine, mid-20s,
:30:44. > :30:48.stippically. In some places we could go as high as 27 degrees,
:30:48. > :30:51.there is just the risk of some sea mist lapping on to the beaches
:30:52. > :30:55.along the south coast. If you are heading to the coast be aware. It
:30:55. > :30:59.could be disappointing from time to time. Patchy cloud for the south
:30:59. > :31:04.west of England and at south-west Wales. It won't spoil things, it
:31:04. > :31:08.will be a reasonable thing here. Inland temperatures will do pretty
:31:08. > :31:11.well. That is the story through Saturday, that weather front will
:31:12. > :31:16.weaken to tomorrow extent as we go through into the night. Further awe
:31:16. > :31:19.field through this weekend a lot of sunshine across Europe. Heading to
:31:19. > :31:22.Mediterranean, again largely sunny skies, there is just the risk of