:00:16. > :00:18.given the go ahead by the United States Congress to begin arming the
:00:18. > :00:23.Syrian rebels. Light weapons and ammunition will begin to flow
:00:23. > :00:26.within weeks along with training, logistics and intelligence. With
:00:27. > :00:31.America's top soldier in uniform fretting about possible mission
:00:31. > :00:34.creep and unintended consequences, we hear from both sides of the
:00:34. > :00:38.debate in Washington. Everyone remembers their first baby
:00:38. > :00:41.pictures, but this baby will need to get used to a life under the
:00:41. > :00:46.microscope. What kind of childhood can the infant Prince look forward
:00:46. > :00:54.to. We're still working on a name, so we will have that as soon as we
:00:54. > :00:59.can. And what name is fit for a modern king? William, Heny. Stephen.
:00:59. > :01:03.Richard John. Hey. David Starkey and Martin Bashir
:01:03. > :01:07.share their expertise. The children in Brazil born to poor mothers
:01:07. > :01:12.being treated for leprosy with a drug banned after causing birth
:01:12. > :01:15.defects in the 1950s. Where is thalidomide being handed out again.
:01:15. > :01:19.TRANSLATION: His father said the doctor didn't tell him that women
:01:19. > :01:28.couldn't take it. He said they didn't tell him anything about it.
:01:28. > :01:33.What of the baby-boomers and what have they done for you? Quite a lot
:01:33. > :01:43.actually, according to a new study of the way grandparents give their
:01:43. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :01:47.wealth and time to their grandchildren. Good evening,
:01:47. > :01:51.American military intervention in Syria means the guns will now
:01:52. > :01:55.arrive within weeks. The United States House and Senate
:01:55. > :01:58.intelligence committees have given the go ahead to the CIA to ship
:01:58. > :02:04.weapons to the Syrian opposition. Big doubts remain. America's top
:02:04. > :02:10.soldier in uniform, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General
:02:10. > :02:13.Sir Martin Demsey, has warned of the unintended consequence, that
:02:13. > :02:17.could empower extremists or unleash the very chemical weapons we seek
:02:17. > :02:19.to control. We have been assessing whether this marks a significant
:02:19. > :02:23.turning point for western intervention.
:02:23. > :02:27.It is very significant, no doubt about it. It was back in early June
:02:27. > :02:30.that the White House briefed that America would supply weapons, they
:02:30. > :02:34.then deflected all further questions on the topic and we were
:02:34. > :02:37.left wondering what's happening. As we have pursued it and tried to
:02:37. > :02:44.follow it up over the last few weeks we heard the thing had moved
:02:44. > :02:46.to the Hill, to the Senate and the House Intelligence Committees. Some
:02:46. > :02:51.doubt as if there was a constitutional need for them to
:02:51. > :02:53.sign off it on it, it seems there was a political need. Doubts within
:02:53. > :02:55.both committees about whether these weapons could be kept under a
:02:55. > :03:04.reasonable degree of control, whether it was a sufficient measure.
:03:04. > :03:07.All of these types of things had been to be assuageed, they have
:03:07. > :03:10.received the go ahead from the committee. We have heard weapons
:03:10. > :03:15.could be arriving in two weeks, the beginning of August, it is clear it
:03:15. > :03:20.could be very soon. The American programme will channel
:03:20. > :03:24.guns, anti-tank weapons and even mortars through Jordan. The
:03:24. > :03:29.operation could cost $500 million in the first year. Washington
:03:29. > :03:35.insiders say it is ready to go. think that they would expect to
:03:35. > :03:39.send the first shipments within the next couple of weeks, ramping it up
:03:39. > :03:45.over a period of months. They already have the infrastructure
:03:45. > :03:50.largely in place in Jordan. Training, intelligence, logistics,
:03:50. > :03:53.and so I think that the first of it would be there within the next few
:03:53. > :03:57.weeks. It is months since President Obama
:03:57. > :04:01.said he would do more to help the opposition. He had been stung by
:04:01. > :04:07.criticism that he had done nothing to punish the Assad regime for
:04:07. > :04:10.crossing a red line by using chemical weapons. When it comes to
:04:10. > :04:14.using chemical weapons, the entire world should be concerned. In terms
:04:14. > :04:17.of what that means in terms of American action, keep in mind, we
:04:17. > :04:20.are already taking a whole range of actions, we are going to continue
:04:20. > :04:24.taking a whole range of actions, separate and apart from the
:04:24. > :04:29.chemical weapon use, we have tens of thousands of people being killed
:04:29. > :04:32.inside of Syria, we want to see that stopped. For humanitarian
:04:32. > :04:36.reasons but also for strategic reasons.
:04:36. > :04:39.Although the White House refused to elaborate it ordered troops in
:04:39. > :04:44.Jordan for military exercises to stay put and speculation soon began
:04:44. > :04:47.that they were there to set up training camps for the Free Syrian
:04:47. > :04:51.Army. Back home the battle continued between those who thought
:04:51. > :04:56.this would mark a slippery slope of intervention and those who think it
:04:56. > :05:02.is barely an adequate response to the Syrian crisis. The response of
:05:02. > :05:07.the administration has been slow and piecemeal, especially as the
:05:07. > :05:11.complexity of the Syria crisis has truly unfolded before us, where he
:05:11. > :05:18.it started out as peaceful uprising against a largely tyrannical regime
:05:18. > :05:21.and has movered into a sectarian -- morphed into a sectarian war that
:05:22. > :05:25.has divided the country into three parts and threatened to destroy
:05:25. > :05:28.Syria and the architectural region around Syria. The Pentagon has been
:05:28. > :05:31.siding with the non- interventionists recently. Its
:05:31. > :05:41.chief yesterday gave a downbeat assessment of military operations
:05:41. > :05:41.
:05:41. > :06:25.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds
:06:25. > :06:33.It could require thousands of Special Forces but only expected to
:06:33. > :06:36.control the, of the some but not all chemical weapons and might make
:06:36. > :06:42.it easier for extremists to get hold of others. A lot in Congress
:06:42. > :06:46.have been saying let's have a no- fly zone and attack Syrian air
:06:46. > :06:50.bases to down the Syrian air force. Dempsey has said it is a very
:06:50. > :06:53.difficult thing to do and will require a lot of resources. He has
:06:53. > :06:58.made no secret of his lack of enthusiasm. That is reflected in
:06:58. > :07:02.his letter. By pushing ahead with the plan to arm rebel groups the
:07:02. > :07:07.White House will channel lethal support via the CIA. Keeping the US
:07:07. > :07:11.military, if all goes to plan at arms length from it. But the
:07:11. > :07:15.problem is, as General Dempsey knows only too well, that
:07:15. > :07:19.intervention can rarely be managed in such a neat way.
:07:19. > :07:23.A little earlier I spoke to Congressman Adam Schiff, on the US
:07:23. > :07:30.House of 7 presentives -- House of Representatives Intelligence
:07:30. > :07:36.Committee. And to Danielle Pletka, author of Dissent in the Arab World,
:07:36. > :07:41.and director of the think-tank the American institute.
:07:41. > :07:45.Why why did did you choose to vote against the plan to use the CIA to
:07:45. > :07:49.arm Syrian rebels? I have a great deal of concern about getting
:07:49. > :07:53.involved in yet another civil war. I think that there are better steps
:07:53. > :07:56.that we can take than providing arms. Arms that we can't be sure
:07:56. > :08:00.even if they get in the right hands that they will stay in the right
:08:00. > :08:04.hands. I think we should retain our focus on getting the parties to
:08:04. > :08:07.negotiate a settlement on providing humanitarian relief, on taking
:08:07. > :08:11.action with the international community on a chemical weapons
:08:11. > :08:16.threat and try to degrade Assad's ability to deliver chemical weapons
:08:16. > :08:19.again. But, becoming an armed supplier in a civil war is not
:08:19. > :08:24.something I favour and that's something I have been speaking out
:08:24. > :08:30.on. Just so I understand the kind of consensus within the House and
:08:30. > :08:35.Senate Intelligence Committee, the House chairman Mike Rogers spoke of
:08:35. > :08:39."very strong concern". Even though most have been seen to go along
:08:39. > :08:43.with the Obama add minutes trace, is there some people who think he's
:08:43. > :08:46.making a mistake? There is a broad concern in Congress about getting
:08:46. > :08:51.involved in this sectarian civil war. That a small amount of weapons
:08:51. > :08:55.is unlikely toe make a difference, and that we would have to provide
:08:55. > :08:58.such a massive quantity of arms and sophisticated weapons to tilt the
:08:58. > :09:01.balance on the battlefield that inevitably we would be drawn
:09:01. > :09:05.further and further into the civil war. Again there is the fear most
:09:05. > :09:08.members of Congress have on both sides of the aisle that even if you
:09:08. > :09:11.can vet members of the opposition that you provide weapons to, you
:09:11. > :09:15.can't be sure that they will stay with that vetted opposition. Many
:09:15. > :09:18.of the rebel groups are now fighting each other, and we have to
:09:18. > :09:23.prudently expect that some percentage of whatever weapons we
:09:23. > :09:28.might supply would get into the wrong hands. So without getting
:09:28. > :09:32.into any specific about what the administration is asking for
:09:32. > :09:37.calling for, I want to express my general concern without becoming a
:09:37. > :09:41.weapons supplier in the civil war. You have heard those reservations
:09:41. > :09:44.but also General Sir Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs is
:09:44. > :09:48.warning of unintended consequences and deeper involvement might be
:09:48. > :09:53.hard to avoid. You must be uncomfortable that a senior general
:09:53. > :09:58.with real experience of Iraq is so unenthusiastic of this? I'm not
:09:58. > :10:01.surprised at what General Dempsey is saying. The military is always
:10:01. > :10:03.unenthusiastic about war, that is why we have a civilian Commander-
:10:03. > :10:09.in-Chief who leads them. The President has made a decision about
:10:09. > :10:16.arming the rebels in Syria. The Congressman raises some reasonable
:10:16. > :10:19.calf youths. The honest truth -- caveats. The honest truth is if we
:10:19. > :10:22.could seal Syria off and keep it there, perhaps the American
:10:22. > :10:26.Congress could sit by and watch as hundreds of thousands of people are
:10:26. > :10:30.killed without fear that there would be an expansion regionally.
:10:30. > :10:34.As for the question of arms getting into the wrong hands, I'm afraid
:10:34. > :10:38.that horse has already left the stable. Arms are already in the
:10:38. > :10:44.wrong hands, that is one of the reasons why the balance has tilted
:10:44. > :10:49.as the chairman said last week, in favour of Assad. I wonder how you
:10:49. > :10:52.will judge as you monitor the CIA's arming of these rebels how it is
:10:52. > :10:56.working? Presumably you will rely on the intelligence coming from the
:10:56. > :11:00.CIA on a policy they are expect to go implement. They may not be
:11:00. > :11:05.entirely straight on telling you whether it is working? Of course it
:11:05. > :11:11.will be very difficult to monitor exactly how the provision of any
:11:11. > :11:14.material support is helping the opposition. But that's part of our
:11:14. > :11:18.responsibility to oversee anything that might be understaken. I will
:11:18. > :11:23.say this in response to the comments that were made. It is very
:11:23. > :11:26.seductive to want to help the opposition here to want to get
:11:26. > :11:30.involved and balance out what Hezbollah or the Russians are doing.
:11:30. > :11:33.That is why it is so easy to get involved in conflicts.
:11:33. > :11:37.Unfortunately we find as easy as it is to get in, it is very difficult
:11:37. > :11:41.to get out, to extricate yourself from a civil war. I fear we will
:11:41. > :11:46.simply be drawn further and further into this conflict. You know there
:11:46. > :11:49.is a question that we have the capability of doing this, we have
:11:49. > :11:53.the capability of deciding the course of this conflict in the
:11:53. > :11:58.sense of who wins militarily and who does not, but as we see in
:11:58. > :12:03.Afghanistan, as we saw in Iraq, the military equation is only one part
:12:03. > :12:08.of the equation. As General Dempsey pointed out so forcefully the other
:12:08. > :12:11.day, when you change the trajectory on the battlefield, that is not the
:12:11. > :12:15.end of the story, if it was, the war in Afghanistan would have been
:12:15. > :12:19.over a long time. You have to be concerned about what comes in after.
:12:19. > :12:22.Let me bring in Danielle Pletka, that is the core of with what
:12:22. > :12:26.General Dempsey is saying, I wonder what your judgment is, whatever the
:12:26. > :12:29.policy appears to be now, in another year's time the United
:12:29. > :12:33.States will be more deeply involved in Syria? No I don't know that we
:12:33. > :12:35.will be more deeply involved. I'm waiting for the President to
:12:35. > :12:39.actually implement the arms transfers that he suggested were
:12:39. > :12:42.going to happen. It is funny the Congressman suggests that it is
:12:42. > :12:48.easy to be seduced by ideas of helping people. Well I do find
:12:48. > :12:52.ideas of helping people rather seductive. But I think that the
:12:52. > :12:56.notion of getting inbetween Assad and Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda is not a
:12:56. > :13:01.terribly attractive one. On the other hand, I think that anyone who
:13:01. > :13:04.is, as the Congressman is, in ardent and a correct supporter of
:13:04. > :13:07.Israel and the relationship between the United States and Israel needs
:13:07. > :13:10.to understand that the Syrian conflict is not staying in Syria.
:13:10. > :13:15.It is already spilling over to Iraq, it is spilling over to Lebanon. It
:13:15. > :13:19.is spilling into Turkey and Jordan and Hezbollah is gaining a foothold
:13:19. > :13:22.on the hills in the Golan which will open a second front towards
:13:22. > :13:27.Israel. The notion that this isn't going to drag in other parties
:13:27. > :13:31.where we do have great interests I am afraid is a bit of a pipe dream.
:13:31. > :13:34.A final thought from Congressman Schiff, in your judgment, whatever
:13:34. > :13:40.the disagreements we have heard here, in your judgment do you think
:13:40. > :13:45.the United States will be more deeply involved in a year's time in
:13:45. > :13:49.Syria? Yes I do. If we take this step now of getting more militarily
:13:49. > :13:53.involved we will inevitably be called upon to do for more all the
:13:53. > :13:55.reasons mentioned. Once we make this a proxy war with Russia and
:13:55. > :14:00.Hezbollah. Once we put the credibility of the United States on
:14:00. > :14:03.the line to that degree, then the arguments become irresistable that
:14:03. > :14:07.we have to do more. If the battle is still not going well then we
:14:07. > :14:12.have to do more, we have to provide more weapons, meer sophisticated
:14:12. > :14:15.weapons. That is how you end -- more sophisticated weapons. That is
:14:15. > :14:20.how you end up with mission creep and get more involved in and
:14:20. > :14:24.getting sucked in. After two wars, drawing down from one and another
:14:24. > :14:28.one there is little appetite to get involved in a third war in yet
:14:28. > :14:31.another Muslim country. Thank you very much both of you.
:14:31. > :14:36.The first public glimpse of the new royal babey a few hours ago is the
:14:36. > :14:40.beginning of a life lived under the flash bulbs and the TV lens. The
:14:40. > :14:45.little Prince, unnamed as yet, is being born into a society where
:14:45. > :14:50.privacy is, if not dead, is difficult to achieve. His
:14:50. > :14:54.grandmother, Diana, was a victim of the the insatible appetite for
:14:54. > :14:58.information about the Royals. Since she died everybody who has a mobile
:14:58. > :15:02.phone is capable of publishing information. The Duke and Duchess
:15:02. > :15:06.of Cambridge looking like normal and happy parents, how normal can
:15:06. > :15:09.their baby's life possibly be. In a moment we will hear from David
:15:09. > :15:17.Starkey and Martin Bashir. First we report, as you might expect there
:15:17. > :15:23.is some flash photography. The new Prince makes his bow in the
:15:23. > :15:27.arms of his mother. If the movement had been choreographed to look
:15:27. > :15:32.relaxed and natural, and perhaps it was, it could scarcely have gone
:15:32. > :15:40.any better. The proud parents in their informal, co-ordinating gear.
:15:40. > :15:46.Body guards and flunkies well out of site. He has a God pair of lungs
:15:46. > :15:50.on him, that's for -- a good pair of lungs on him, that's for sure.
:15:50. > :15:56.He is a big boy, and we are working on a name. It is the first time we
:15:56. > :15:59.have seen him so we are catching up. It wasn't only the new father who
:15:59. > :16:04.handled reporter's questions. emotional, it is very emotional, it
:16:04. > :16:08.is such a special time, any parent I think will probably know what
:16:08. > :16:12.this feeling feels like. It is very special. Prince William was asked
:16:12. > :16:18.about the delay between the birth and when it was announced. Was that
:16:18. > :16:23.time for the family? It was, and I will remind him of his tardiness
:16:23. > :16:27.when he's older, I know how long you have been waiting out here.
:16:27. > :16:31.Hopefully you and the hospital can go back to normal and we can look
:16:31. > :16:34.after them. It has felt like a bit of a wait for the sight of the
:16:34. > :16:40.royal infant. In a spectacle witnessed only once in a generation,
:16:40. > :16:50.bulletins about a future heir to the throne are displayed on
:16:50. > :16:53.
:16:53. > :17:01.Newsnight's called easal of news! Some day my Prince will come, but
:17:01. > :17:07.when? Through the song sultry day, on-lookers took in the scene, where
:17:07. > :17:11.photographers kept their watch of wandering lens. Caught between the
:17:11. > :17:16.irresistable force of air time to fill, and the immovable object of
:17:16. > :17:19.nothing to say, one man stood out. Daniella thank you very much, that
:17:19. > :17:23.won't stop the fevered speculation here but as far as what is going on
:17:23. > :17:27.at the hospital right now the news here is that we have no news.
:17:27. > :17:32.People have found your take on it refreshing, they look at you and
:17:32. > :17:35.see something has perhaps died in your eyes for the time being?
:17:35. > :17:39.hasn't dyed. I have covered the Royal Family for many years in a
:17:39. > :17:42.previous life. You have got to be very careful that you are not
:17:42. > :17:47.speculating to the point where you lose the viewers' trust. I speak as
:17:47. > :17:52.I find. I think you have to. If you walk outside a hospital, hour upon
:17:52. > :17:58.hour and nothing has happened, it is a bit difficult to sustain hour
:17:58. > :18:04.after hour. We are expected today do that and I will do my best at it,
:18:04. > :18:08.but I won't lie about with what I'm saying.
:18:08. > :18:13.The Prince was asked if he had changed add nappy yet. I have done
:18:13. > :18:18.that already. He's done a few already. It is very, very good.
:18:18. > :18:26.different from the home life of our own dear Queen who reportedly
:18:26. > :18:32.outsourced a lot of the hands on childcare to servants. Kate
:18:32. > :18:38.Middleton and Prince William put their DNA into a Kenwood blender,
:18:38. > :18:41.and the resulting smoothie is an extraordinary combination of royal
:18:41. > :18:51.and middle-class. The challenge for the pair is to enjoy bringing up a
:18:51. > :18:51.
:18:51. > :19:00.child that is essentially the first royal middle-class baby. They will
:19:00. > :19:05.attempt to give this child as normal an upbringing, if you regard
:19:05. > :19:08.Weatherby, Ludgrove follow bid Eton as normal. In the current
:19:08. > :19:11.configuration of our Government it is normal and quite common. They
:19:11. > :19:21.will do that for this child, but I think there will be a lot of
:19:21. > :19:21.
:19:21. > :19:27.Berkshire, and there will be a lot of Malborough rather than Eton. We
:19:27. > :19:30.may see them looking at upper middle-class rather than royal.
:19:30. > :19:39.Admittedly a prosperous middle- class father, Prince William
:19:39. > :19:45.strapped his son into his 4X4 and drove his family home from hospital.
:19:45. > :19:50.All unknowing, the newest royal has had his first encounter with a huge
:19:50. > :19:54.media interest, which has been repellent to members of hits family
:19:54. > :19:57.at times, which these days is a large part of what they are -- of
:19:58. > :20:03.his family at times, which these days is a large part of what they
:20:03. > :20:06.are here for. David Starkey is here in the studio and Martin Bashir,
:20:06. > :20:09.who famously interviewed Princess Diana for Panorama at a troubled
:20:10. > :20:13.time for the House of Windsor joins us from New York.
:20:13. > :20:16.First of all, Princess Diana lived her life under a great deal of
:20:16. > :20:21.scrutiny and was very unhappy about it at times. Do you think that's
:20:21. > :20:27.the kind of fate that awaits the new Prince? It could, but I think
:20:27. > :20:31.there are three encouraging signs. This is largely to do with Prince
:20:31. > :20:35.William. First of all Prince William has beefed up the media
:20:35. > :20:39.operation following his father Prince Charles to the extent that
:20:39. > :20:44.now they have a media and marketing department that's akin to any
:20:44. > :20:47.institution in the United Kingdom. No longer do we have a couple of
:20:47. > :20:52.thumpingly good chaps who have come down from military service that are
:20:52. > :20:58.dabbling a bit in the media, these are now professional media
:20:58. > :21:02.operators. Secondly, the Duchess of Cambridge shows no inclination to
:21:02. > :21:05.breach any of the royal protocols of privacy that of course people
:21:05. > :21:13.like myself and others in journalism were able to exploit
:21:13. > :21:17.with the late Princess of Wales. She doesn't display any willingness
:21:17. > :21:20.to disclose her feelings or troubles to anyone outside the
:21:20. > :21:23.Royal Family. The third reason why people don't need to be so
:21:23. > :21:27.pessimistic about this child's future in front of the lens is the
:21:27. > :21:30.British press is to some extent could youed and bowed following the
:21:30. > :21:35.phone hacking inquire -- cowed and bowed following the phone hacking
:21:35. > :21:39.inquiry. It was a text message on Prince William's cellphone that
:21:39. > :21:43.provoked inquiries about whether someone was hacking a member of the
:21:43. > :21:47.Royal Family's home. This was a reference to a knee injury. That
:21:47. > :21:51.then spawned all the other inquiries. This year alone we have
:21:51. > :21:56.seen public servants go to jail for selling information to national
:21:56. > :21:59.newspapers. I think that kind of example has probably discouraged
:22:00. > :22:07.people. In the past I'm sure some of the tabloids would have been
:22:07. > :22:12.thinking about offering a few quid to people who work at the Lindo
:22:12. > :22:16.Wing at St Mary's Paddington. They are discouraged in doing that at
:22:16. > :22:21.the moment because of Leveson and what we have seen. How do you view
:22:21. > :22:25.this, clearly this was a very beautifully choreographed bit of
:22:25. > :22:30.normality, and ordinariness. The father, we can run some pictures of
:22:30. > :22:35.some of those scenes, the father strapping the baby into the car.
:22:35. > :22:39.The immensely expensive 4X4. Very beautifully polished, which clearly
:22:40. > :22:44.we hadn't polished. But yes. That is part of the story that we are
:22:44. > :22:49.watching? I think it is. We have been talking, remember, about
:22:49. > :22:52.middle-class monarchy ever since Victoria and Albert, the embrace of
:22:52. > :22:58.middle-class values, the middle- class style of living, the contempt
:22:58. > :23:03.of the high aristocracy for the Victorian monarchy. They sneered
:23:03. > :23:09.that this royal "can I". What is new about The Middles and Kate and
:23:09. > :23:13.William is the reality -- the Middleton, and Kate and William is
:23:13. > :23:17.the reality is notching towards the myth. We are seeing this incredibly
:23:17. > :23:21.delicate balance between totally ordinary behaviour, William has got
:23:21. > :23:25.himself a new estuary accent, and at the same time the specialness,
:23:25. > :23:29.which we never want to lose. The myth is between those two things.
:23:29. > :23:34.Do you think, the way you said that makes me think that British people
:23:34. > :23:38.get both sides of it, they get their sort of just like us, but
:23:38. > :23:43.they are not at all like us? Celebrity is the same, you want
:23:43. > :23:52.them to be the same, but at the same time you fantasise about
:23:52. > :23:56.becking ham palace in exactly the - - BeckinghamPalace in exactly the
:23:56. > :23:59.same way. And Kate understands, saying every family having a baby
:24:00. > :24:07.goes through this. The reason family monarchy that we have got
:24:07. > :24:11.works so well is it taps into universal experiences, slightly
:24:11. > :24:17.tipsy grandmas, some what off uncles, boisterous younger brothers,
:24:17. > :24:22.and the whole process of birth, marriage and death. I want to bring
:24:22. > :24:26.that point about boisterous younger brothers, you are sure they will
:24:26. > :24:31.retain a degree of privacy. We also know the media is just not pulling
:24:31. > :24:34.in the editors and giving them a telling off and whatever Leveson
:24:34. > :24:39.will do to cow them. It is also Prince Harry having photographs
:24:39. > :24:44.taken in a hotel room in Las Vegas and published so everyone can see.
:24:45. > :24:50.It is no so easy to control? It is not, but it is not the most helpful
:24:50. > :24:54.thing playing strip poker with young ladies who are attractive and
:24:54. > :24:57.drunk that you met a few hours before commencing your game. That
:24:57. > :25:05.is not the most sensible thing. We accept this is a digital world, and
:25:05. > :25:08.all of these forces are at work. They apply to anybody who is a
:25:08. > :25:12.public figure. I was photographed recently coming out of a jazz club,
:25:12. > :25:16.and the photo-grat appeared to suggest that I wasn't entirely
:25:16. > :25:20.sober. I was actually and I had just been there on my own without
:25:21. > :25:25.any alcohol. That is part of what this means. But I do think keep in
:25:25. > :25:29.mind the power and force of Her Majesty the Queen throughout this.
:25:29. > :25:34.David Starkey and yourself were talking earlier about that
:25:34. > :25:39.difficult period, I did that interview and it was broadcast in
:25:39. > :25:42.1995. Windsor Castle fire happened, the divorce and death of Princess
:25:42. > :25:47.Diana. That was a terribly difficult time, one of the things
:25:47. > :25:51.that has been continuous has been Her Majesty's absolute
:25:51. > :25:55.unimpeachable character and service to the nation. And I think that
:25:55. > :26:00.British people feel well disposed to the Royal Family, principally
:26:00. > :26:05.because of her role. This is not an ordinary bunch of celebrities on to
:26:05. > :26:11.whom we can project our own aspirations and expectations. This
:26:11. > :26:14.has at the centre a woman who, as I said, has a profound character of
:26:14. > :26:18.commitment and service and duty that British people respect
:26:18. > :26:23.enormously. I want to bring in David Starkey on the other part of
:26:23. > :26:28.the family, which is the Middletons themselves. We touched on middle-
:26:28. > :26:32.class values, people say it is the first time commoners will be the
:26:32. > :26:37.grandparents to king. That isn't true? Look at the family tree of
:26:37. > :26:44.most of Henry's wife. Queen Elizabeth had a second cousin who
:26:44. > :26:49.was a blacksmith. Ranking a good deal below the Middletons. The
:26:49. > :26:57.Middletons are not all that ordinary middle-class, ordinary
:26:57. > :27:03.children don't send three children to Malborough at �26,000 a year.
:27:03. > :27:09.They are self-made people and people can relate to that? With the
:27:09. > :27:14.Middleton the myth of the middle- class monarchy has made another
:27:14. > :27:18.edging towards that. You are edging away from a great Victorian Vision
:27:18. > :27:23.of enormous households service, and a vast family, towards something
:27:23. > :27:27.which is much more like a modern nuclear family. That is an
:27:27. > :27:31.interesting point, because a Royal Courtier said to me that people
:27:31. > :27:33.love the monarchy and the Queen but they don't like too much of the
:27:33. > :27:37.extended family? That's right. But the really important thing about
:27:37. > :27:40.changing the rules of the succession, to the rage of
:27:40. > :27:44.assembled feminists, this is a boy, so we will have three kings in a
:27:44. > :27:49.row. But when you say that the eldest succeeds irrespective, why
:27:49. > :27:53.do we need HRH hangers on. To use that rather unkind term. Why do we
:27:53. > :28:02.need the Kents and Gloucesters any more, we don't. I think what we are
:28:02. > :28:06.going to see is a move ever closer to a standard upper-class family.
:28:07. > :28:11.It is only the upper-classes that marry, and marriage is key here. It
:28:11. > :28:15.is not quite pop but it will be more normal, with a gradual discard
:28:15. > :28:20.of the hangers on. Thank you very much both of you.
:28:20. > :28:25.Now, in the 1950s, what was billed at a new wonder drug, thalidomide
:28:25. > :28:28.was prescribeed to some pregnant women to help them overcome the
:28:28. > :28:33.symptoms of morning sick test, the side-effects were severe and the
:28:33. > :28:38.drug was banned. Now a new scientific study seen exclusively
:28:38. > :28:45.by Newsnight shows that thalidomide is still causing birth defects
:28:45. > :28:52.today. It has been relicensed in Brazil to help leprosy. It is
:28:52. > :28:56.believed 100 babies have been born with 200 -- since 205 with injuries
:28:56. > :29:04.caused by the thalidomide of the past. We were told this could never
:29:04. > :29:12.happen again. That no child would be so terribly damaged. No family
:29:12. > :29:19.forced to live with the stigma. But Alan is living proof that is not
:29:20. > :29:25.true. Thalidomide was meant to be been contained, controlled and made
:29:25. > :29:33.safe. But it is still mutilating limbs and continuitying lives. Alan
:29:33. > :29:39.lives in a small town in rural Brazil. His response to the wrong
:29:39. > :29:43.the drug has done him is to improvise and adapt, with an eight-
:29:43. > :29:51.year-old's energy and appetite for life. And he has ambitions too. His
:29:51. > :29:56.mother wants him to be a lawyer, but Alan has other plans. When you
:29:56. > :30:06.get older and you go and get a job, what do you think you want to do
:30:06. > :30:10.
:30:10. > :30:14.with your life? TRANSLATION: professional footballer. First
:30:14. > :30:22.marketed in the late 1950s, thalidomide was sold as a wonder
:30:22. > :30:26.drug, so safe it was given to pregnant women for morning sickness.
:30:26. > :30:32.10,000 thalidomide babies were worn worldwide, more than 400 in Britain
:30:32. > :30:36.before it was officially withdrawn in 1962. But thalidomide never
:30:36. > :30:42.really went away. This factory produces about eight million pills
:30:42. > :30:50.a year. It is cheap and highly effective at streeting a disease
:30:50. > :30:55.that stalks Brazil's slums. Leprosy. Here health workers spread out
:30:55. > :31:01.across a favela near Rio deJanuary near row, showing people how to
:31:01. > :31:08.spot signs of the disease and encouraging them to come for free
:31:09. > :31:14.testing. Artur Custodio is from the National Leprosy Organisation.
:31:14. > :31:19.TRANSLATION: Brazil is number one in the world for leprosy cases,
:31:19. > :31:22.after Brazils Congo, and East Timor. In absolute numbers Brazil is
:31:22. > :31:29.behind India which has a bigger population. It varies around the
:31:29. > :31:35.country because leprosy is a disease of forgotten populations.
:31:35. > :31:41.On the surface Brazil may look like it is booming. It has the sixth-
:31:41. > :31:45.biggest economy in the world, larger than Britain's, and a GDP of
:31:45. > :31:50.�1.6 trillion. But there is a very different Brazil beyond the
:31:50. > :31:55.playgrounds of the elite. The gap between rich and poor is immense
:31:55. > :32:01.here. While Brazil has as many billionares as France and Spain put
:32:01. > :32:05.together, 16 million people here have to live on less than �1 a day.
:32:05. > :32:12.With poor healthcare and massive overcrowding. Perfect conditions
:32:12. > :32:15.for leprosy to thrive. Favelas crowd in on all the big
:32:15. > :32:19.cities here. People leaving the countryside gain a precarious
:32:19. > :32:25.foothold on the fringes of this society. The country's boom seems
:32:25. > :32:30.barely to have touched them. After years of Government inaction,
:32:30. > :32:36.leprosy is now being tackled head on. Mass education campaigns are
:32:36. > :32:42.reaching out into the slums. At this event even Miss Brazil puts in
:32:42. > :32:45.an appearence to encourage people to come and use this testing van.
:32:45. > :32:49.TRANSLATION: People give greater support and look for more
:32:49. > :32:52.information. We want to get the message out about early treatment.
:32:52. > :32:57.Because from the moment the person takes the medicine for the first
:32:57. > :33:03.time, he or she stops being able to pass on the disease to other people.
:33:03. > :33:07.So this information is very important. And come they do. A
:33:07. > :33:12.detailed medical history is taken, blood test too, then an examination
:33:12. > :33:22.by a doctor. For this man it is a quick diagnosis, much of his back
:33:22. > :33:27.is disfigured by the illness. But as more sufferers are identified,
:33:27. > :33:30.so the need for thalidomide grows. And at this clinic in the suburbs
:33:30. > :33:36.of Rio half the patients use the medicine. Such is the taboo that
:33:37. > :33:46.still cloaks the illness, we are asked not to show their faces. But
:33:47. > :33:47.
:33:47. > :33:56.one patient, being examined by her doctor let us see how thalidomide
:33:56. > :34:01.has reduced the painful leisons on her arm. And she proudly shows us
:34:01. > :34:06.her son Pedro she had him before she began the treatment.
:34:06. > :34:09.TRANSLATION: I know that I need the medicine, that if I don't take the
:34:10. > :34:13.contraceptive pills I could get pregnant and have a disabled child.
:34:13. > :34:17.I don't think it is fair to bring a disabled kid into the world just
:34:17. > :34:22.because of being careless. I have already had my son, who is my whole
:34:22. > :34:27.life, and I don't think it would be right to have another child who was
:34:27. > :34:30.disabled. But she believes others aren't as careful as she is.
:34:30. > :34:34.TRANSLATION: No because if they were more careful there wouldn't be
:34:34. > :34:42.children with so many defects. There are people who don't think
:34:42. > :34:48.about their child, just about themselves. Thalidomide is kept
:34:48. > :34:55.looked away in a secure room. Dr Fernanda Vianna is shown how it is
:34:55. > :34:58.stored and dispensed. She's an epidemiologyist, a chemist who has
:34:58. > :35:04.carried out the largest study in the effects of the drug. How
:35:04. > :35:13.dangerous potentially is this drug? This drug it is possible to produce
:35:13. > :35:19.malformations, very difficult to manage throughout life.
:35:20. > :35:23.analysed 17 million births between 2005-2010. The study shows in
:35:23. > :35:32.places where more thalidomide is used there is a higher than
:35:32. > :35:37.expected number of birth defects. TRANSLATION: So we found after the
:35:37. > :35:41.six years of research a strong correlation, a significant and
:35:41. > :35:46.positive correlation between the amount of thalidomide dispensed and
:35:46. > :35:53.the type of congenital defects and the occurrance of these defects and
:35:53. > :35:57.in particular limb reduction reeffects. The research also showed
:35:57. > :36:02.the highest number of cases were in areas of extreme poverty, where
:36:02. > :36:09.leprosy is pref vent. She admits to being shocked by the -- prevalent.
:36:09. > :36:14.She admits to be shocked by the results. TRANSLATION: We had 100
:36:14. > :36:18.cases in six years similar to thalidomide syndrome. We couldn't
:36:18. > :36:24.evaluate each case, we couldn't say all cases are thalidomide syndrome.
:36:24. > :36:29.But this type of defect is very rare. These are just some of the
:36:29. > :36:34.forms that a woman last to fill out. There should be tight controls when
:36:34. > :36:37.thalidomide is prescribeed. A woman must be using two forms of birth
:36:37. > :36:40.control and agree to regular pregnancy tests, but the system
:36:40. > :36:47.isn't fail safe. Some patients don't understand the prestrixs and
:36:47. > :36:52.in Brazil it is common for people to share medication. Are these
:36:52. > :37:00.controls enough? We have some problems and some situations that
:37:00. > :37:05.some patients don't have a lot of information. The exchange of the
:37:05. > :37:09.information is so difficult in some situations that the physicians
:37:09. > :37:16.explains but the patient doesn't understand so it is difficult in
:37:16. > :37:21.some situations. This is what seems to have happened to Alan. His
:37:21. > :37:24.father had leprosy and was taking thalidomide. His mother says she
:37:24. > :37:31.was feeling ill and took several different pills from the medicine
:37:31. > :37:35.cabinet, without knowing she was pregnant. TRANSLATION: I got it and
:37:35. > :37:39.took it when I was feeling sick, not well. So I got the medicine and
:37:39. > :37:43.took it. I had already taken others like paracetamol to make myself
:37:43. > :37:46.feel better without knowing I was pregnant. His father said that the
:37:46. > :37:54.doctor didn't tell him that women couldn't take it. He said they
:37:54. > :38:00.didn't tell him anything about it. For doctors who use the drug every
:38:00. > :38:05.day, there is no dilemma. How good is it as a drug? The best.The
:38:05. > :38:10.best? For this type of reaction it is the best drug. There will be
:38:10. > :38:19.many people in my country who say I'm shocked that thalidomide is
:38:19. > :38:28.still used. You have the ghosts of thalidomide in the 50s, I
:38:28. > :38:38.understand, but they should forget their ghosts. It is a drug. We have
:38:38. > :38:38.
:38:38. > :38:46.other drugs why thalidomide, only thalidomide. I think these ghosts
:38:46. > :38:52.will disappear as soon as the older people die. Such is the need for
:38:52. > :38:57.thalidomide that the Government has more than doubled its order from
:38:57. > :39:02.this factory. TRANSLATION: Nowadays there is a myth about thalidomide.
:39:02. > :39:07.People are afraid of thalidomide. People are afraid of taking it and
:39:07. > :39:12.people are afraid of being anywhere near it. But I think with
:39:12. > :39:16.information and publicity about the benefits that thalidomide brings to
:39:16. > :39:21.patients, this myth can be overcome. Because the benefits outweigh the
:39:21. > :39:24.risks. No-one is saying that thalidomide
:39:25. > :39:30.should be banned, it is far too important a medicine for that. But
:39:30. > :39:34.this is a deeply unequal country. It is the poor who suffer most from
:39:34. > :39:41.leprosy, and because of bad education and inadequate healthcare
:39:41. > :39:45.it is the children of the poor most likely to be damaged by thalidomide.
:39:45. > :39:54.Thalidomide is a terrifying part of medical history, that it is still
:39:54. > :39:59.able to mutilate young bodies today will horrify many. The complex
:39:59. > :40:03.causes makes poverty with disease, ignorance and simple bad luck. Alan
:40:03. > :40:05.is living proof that more than 50 years after thalidomide was first
:40:06. > :40:14.withdrawn there is a second generation of children who are
:40:14. > :40:18.having to live with the terrible damage it can cause. Now, we can
:40:18. > :40:22.assume that with grandparents like Prince Charles and the Middletons,
:40:22. > :40:26.not to mention a great-grand mother of some influence, that the new
:40:26. > :40:31.royal baby can count on a considerable amount of financial
:40:31. > :40:35.system from the Bank of Granny and Granddad. So do others,
:40:35. > :40:39.grandparents are paying for mortgages, holidays, and even
:40:39. > :40:43.school uniforms. They shell almost �2,000 a year to support family
:40:43. > :40:49.life. According to a new report the grey pound is keeping a big role in
:40:49. > :40:53.keeping families afloat. For years we have been told that the baby-
:40:53. > :40:59.boomers have had it all, secure jobs, final salary pensions and
:40:59. > :41:05.often a second or third home thanks to a massive housing boom. But is a
:41:05. > :41:09.quiet and voluntary redistribution going on between the generations? A
:41:09. > :41:13.survey by GP Morgan suggests more than a third of grandparents
:41:13. > :41:18.contribute to their families' living costs, helping pay for
:41:18. > :41:25.mortgages, school clothes and even the family car. It adds up to
:41:25. > :41:29.almost �1500 a year, plus another �1,000 of free childcare. So is
:41:29. > :41:35.that sustainable? Or even desirable. Or is redistribution from old to
:41:35. > :41:38.young really the Government's job. By scrapping free TV licenses and
:41:38. > :41:46.increasing the retirement age, or even higher taxes on pensions. All
:41:46. > :41:49.have been suggested to pass money to a struggling next generation. We
:41:49. > :41:54.have the editor with saga magazine aimed at the over 50s, and we have
:41:54. > :41:59.the author of Jilted Generation, a book about how those in their 20s
:41:59. > :42:05.and 30s may be losing out. Do you think we understatement how much
:42:05. > :42:11.grandparents do? I think it is a very visceral thing to want to give
:42:11. > :42:15.money to your family. I think that when times are hard the impact that
:42:15. > :42:20.grandparents can have on keeping families afloat is greater than
:42:20. > :42:24.when we are going through good times. Do you think that however
:42:24. > :42:28.much people in their 20s and 30s feel they may be losing out,
:42:28. > :42:32.grandparents are filling up a lot of the holes in our social life and
:42:32. > :42:36.apparently our financial life as well? And families will be families
:42:36. > :42:41.as Emma has said, you can't really legislate against that, that would
:42:41. > :42:51.be utterly ensane. The question is really why do young families in
:42:51. > :42:52.
:42:52. > :42:55.their late 20s and early 30s need this kind of help. Why if they are
:42:55. > :42:59.in work are they not able to do these things themselves without
:42:59. > :43:03.relying on older parents. answer to that is these are really
:43:03. > :43:06.hard times for everybody, as you say families will do the best they
:43:07. > :43:12.can, grandparents will do the best they can. There is no going back to
:43:12. > :43:15.the golden age where the baby- boomers got MIRAS and free
:43:15. > :43:19.university places, it is not going to happen again? Why not. The
:43:19. > :43:23.question is this, we know that young adults today are suffering
:43:23. > :43:26.massively in terms of housing costs, if they want to buy a house they
:43:26. > :43:28.have to pay over the odds for it. Historically speaking if they are
:43:29. > :43:32.renting they are paying over the odds in the private sector and
:43:32. > :43:35.there isn't enough social housing to go around and yet we don't, we
:43:35. > :43:39.are not really doing anything about the housing issue in this country
:43:39. > :43:42.except to chuck some loan guarantees at it, which all
:43:43. > :43:49.economyists agree will boost the price of those who already own
:43:49. > :43:51.homes. What do you think of this? In a way grandparents are
:43:51. > :43:57.redistributing some wealth, is that the Government's role? Should they
:43:57. > :44:02.do more about it? Or should people get used to the fact? The key word
:44:02. > :44:06.in the introduction was the word "voluntary", people are much
:44:06. > :44:11.happier choosing where they give their money. So they give it to
:44:11. > :44:18.their families and to the very generations that we're talking
:44:18. > :44:25.about. The other thing is that they are actually taking, if you like,
:44:25. > :44:28.the value of their houses, this is what is enabling them to give the
:44:28. > :44:32.money. But they have the security that perhaps owning your own home
:44:32. > :44:37.and having paid off the mortgage gives them. Disposable income in
:44:37. > :44:40.the over 60s is now greater than people in their 20s, is that the
:44:40. > :44:45.Government's job to change that or should they just say that is fine?
:44:45. > :44:51.There is no doubt that this is a very lucky generation. I couldn't
:44:51. > :44:56.possibly argue against that, it is a sort of whatever, it is a perfect
:44:56. > :45:02.storm of the last of the final salary pension, and the property
:45:02. > :45:09.boom. But it isn't going to last. Already final salary pensions are
:45:09. > :45:17.dying. Even I'm in my early 60s, I'm not going to get that. So this
:45:17. > :45:22.isn't going to last. When these the wealth from this important is
:45:23. > :45:27.passed down it is exactly filtered down to the very people that we
:45:27. > :45:31.want to help. About the sort of things being handed down things.
:45:31. > :45:35.When people are having families it is biologically limited, if that
:45:35. > :45:38.doesn't happen for another 30, 40 years then that generation then
:45:38. > :45:42.what do they do. The other aspect of this is what you have been
:45:42. > :45:48.saying underlies the point really, it is well look yes we have done
:45:48. > :45:51.very well, but you know get off our backs now none the less, the future
:45:51. > :45:55.will look after itself, but we don't want to pay any cost towards
:45:56. > :45:59.making that happen. There isn't a plan in this country actually to
:45:59. > :46:02.figure out what we are going to do over the next 20 years. We do have
:46:02. > :46:05.a plan about the ageing society and the social care costs, we are
:46:05. > :46:09.starting to put that together. We don't have a plan about housing, we
:46:09. > :46:13.don't have a plan about how to get extra school places now there is a
:46:13. > :46:17.mini-baby-boom going on at this point in time. We are really,
:46:17. > :46:19.really bad in this country about future planning. The Office of
:46:19. > :46:23.Budget Responsibility last week was saying this is a problem that
:46:23. > :46:26.affects all of us. Looking forward healthcare costs for an ageing
:46:26. > :46:29.population, increasing pension costs, public pension costs are
:46:29. > :46:35.going to suck money out of the economy. There will be a black hole.
:46:35. > :46:39.Do you not see any argument for either taxing those who work of a
:46:39. > :46:42.certain age or taxing people who are older to help pay for the
:46:42. > :46:47.younger generation to get a better standard of living? But I don't
:46:47. > :46:52.think you can run a taxation system, you can't put in a special tax rate
:46:52. > :46:57.just because people are over 60s and prosperous. The answer is there
:46:57. > :47:01.are perfectly good tax bands and if you are working you pay tax on it.
:47:01. > :47:05.Yeah the over 60s already enjoy special tax and favours, one
:47:05. > :47:10.example, national insurance, if you are over 65 you don't pay national
:47:10. > :47:18.insurance, why? The reason is you can claim a pension, it would be
:47:18. > :47:24.ludicrous to pay a pension and give it back. A million over 60s work.
:47:24. > :47:29.There are small ano mam lease in the system. I will stick my head on
:47:29. > :47:37.to the block of the bus pass and say I do think it is a huge
:47:37. > :47:41.anomally of wealthy pensioners getting free bus passes, et cetera.
:47:41. > :47:44.Prince William says they are still working on a name, here is a
:47:44. > :47:50.reminder of a few options on the table. This is curtesy of a
:47:50. > :48:00.children's programme that all grown-ups secretly watch, BBC's
:48:00. > :48:22.
:48:22. > :48:26.Good evening, certainly not done with the storms yet. In fact in the
:48:26. > :48:29.last few hours it has certainly been very thundery across northern
:48:29. > :48:33.parts of Britain. As far as Wednesday goes, I don't think the
:48:33. > :48:37.thunder showers and the downpours will be as widespread as what we
:48:37. > :48:39.have had in the last day or so. In Northern Ireland certainly a chance
:48:39. > :48:44.of some showers growing through the course of the afternoon, that is
:48:44. > :48:47.the case also for parts of Scotland. I think the morning across eastern
:48:47. > :48:50.Scotland and the borders will be wetter and more thundery than the
:48:50. > :48:54.afternoon. Looking at the rest of the country, the heat of the day
:48:54. > :48:58.will develop big shower clouds and one or two locations, but they will
:48:58. > :49:01.be well scattered. That means there will be plenty of fine and dry
:49:01. > :49:06.weather, temperatures will get up to around 25 degrees, still very
:49:06. > :49:11.humid. These thunder storms we have recently had, they haven't cleared
:49:11. > :49:13.away, all that humidity. Quite often when we talk about a thundery
:49:13. > :49:17.breakdown, we mean fresher conditions reach the country. That
:49:17. > :49:22.has not really been the case. Nor will it be the case on Thursday. We
:49:22. > :49:25.will see the area of rain splashing its way across the UK. Thunder
:49:25. > :49:30.storms too and thunderstorms with sunshine to the south. Look at the
:49:30. > :49:33.temperatures still well into the 20s, we are not getting that fresh