:00:02. > :00:07.makes fun of. It is not Bernard Manning, it is not mustard, it is
:00:07. > :00:15.the ordinary people, the guy who changed the head gasket on my car
:00:15. > :00:19.the other week, he overcharged me, but that's fine.
:00:20. > :00:24.Good evening, here is the news, the good news, Andy Murray, the Ashes,
:00:24. > :00:27.a royal baby and a bit of sunshine. Tomorrow what are predicted to be
:00:27. > :00:32.better growth figures than first feared. Like the sun coming out at
:00:32. > :00:36.last, good second quarter GDP should cheer most of us up. The
:00:36. > :00:39.only problem is rather like the summer weather there may be
:00:39. > :00:42.thunderstorms ahead. Paul Mason has been trying to assess how strong
:00:42. > :00:47.the recovery might be, and whether, as the Government puts it, the
:00:47. > :00:50.economy is being rebalanced towards exports, industrial production and
:00:50. > :01:00.long-term investment, or are we repeating some of the mistakes of
:01:00. > :01:01.
:01:01. > :01:06.the past. Breakfast in Soho, London, at this cafe they know all about
:01:06. > :01:09.economic recovery. It is a pop-up business, using space in a late-
:01:09. > :01:14.night bar to serve English breakfast by day, on most days
:01:14. > :01:19.there is a queue. This is normally a bar, and I open at 10.00 and
:01:19. > :01:22.finish at 4.00, they start working at 4.00. What is the effect of
:01:22. > :01:26.doing that? It is using a space where they are already paying rent
:01:26. > :01:30.and bills whether they are open or closed. We are optimising on the
:01:30. > :01:33.space and making more money and it is great marketing for the business.
:01:33. > :01:40.It is a new clientele that we are attracting. And how is it doing?It
:01:40. > :01:46.is doing really well. We are Number Ten on Trip Visor out of 11,500
:01:47. > :01:51.restaurants in London. To you it look like carbohydrates, to
:01:51. > :01:55.economists this is great use of space, two firms, one space and
:01:55. > :01:58.more jobs. You are hiring? That is the bar hiring. One thing with
:01:58. > :02:04.hiring, which is amazing, you have got a lot more choice. So many
:02:04. > :02:09.people are looking for work. But you are getting a huge range of
:02:09. > :02:13.qualifications, a lot well overqualified because they are
:02:13. > :02:17.supplementing income with a second job. So London is buzzing, but two
:02:17. > :02:20.or three hours away from here the upturn doesn't look so sure. You
:02:20. > :02:28.can have breakfast, dinner and tea amid three very different economic
:02:28. > :02:34.stories. Which is what I'm about to do. This map shows the growth in
:02:34. > :02:37.Britain's regions and nations since 2007. The average is 6%, and the
:02:37. > :02:43.south-east and south-west, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, all
:02:43. > :02:46.grew by about that much. The underperformers were the north-east,
:02:47. > :02:51.North West, West Midlands, Yorkshire and Humber, and the East
:02:51. > :02:58.Midlands, that was below 3%. But London is in a different class,
:02:59. > :03:03.clocking up 12% growth, double the average. The recovery was supposed
:03:03. > :03:10.to be led by industry, and exports. But in Birmingham, where I'm headed
:03:10. > :03:15.now, they know all too well how weak that's been. BSA machine tools
:03:15. > :03:19.was once an iconic British giant, now it is down to 35 production
:03:19. > :03:22.workers. They are highly-skilled, but look closely and the age
:03:22. > :03:26.profile tells the story, apprentices, brand-new, the
:03:26. > :03:33.majority of the skilled work force over 60 and very few people
:03:33. > :03:36.inbetween. The boss, who remembers the factory in its hey day, tells
:03:36. > :03:40.me, over a working lunch, it is the shortage of skilled people that is
:03:40. > :03:46.holding back growth. Clearly if I haven't got the skills, then I'm
:03:46. > :03:51.not able to grow. In this area, in particular, the skills issue is
:03:51. > :03:54.major, we have got a skills gap where new apprentices coming
:03:54. > :03:59.through, probably won't get there before the older work force moves
:04:00. > :04:04.on. The other big issue is, of course, finance. This firm weaned
:04:04. > :04:09.itself off bank credit by cutting costs, delaying payments, now they
:04:09. > :04:13.are ready to grow again. But access to finance is becoming critical.
:04:13. > :04:18.enabled us to extract ourselves from the bank in terms of working
:04:18. > :04:21.capital. That's fine. A lot of companies have done that over time
:04:21. > :04:25.and are reticent to go back to the banks. The problem is we are
:04:25. > :04:29.looking to export, when you export you can't extract yourself from the
:04:29. > :04:33.bank. You need other facilities like documentary credits, letters
:04:33. > :04:36.of credit, downpayment guarantees and so on. So you can't get away
:04:36. > :04:39.from them all together. Even that can be difficult when you're
:04:39. > :04:43.exporting, and exporting of course is very important to us. And it is
:04:43. > :04:46.stuff like this that worries economists, the fact that we are
:04:46. > :04:51.facing capacity constraints, even with much of the economy just
:04:51. > :04:55.ticking over. What I have just seen there in Birmingham is a great
:04:55. > :04:59.example of what they call the output gap and the lack of it. That
:04:59. > :05:03.is when the economy starts to grow the worry is that there isn't
:05:03. > :05:09.enough spare capacity. That is ability to grow. And so even in
:05:09. > :05:12.quite promising circumstances what you get is a low growth recovery.
:05:12. > :05:18.The further away you get from London the more you start seeing
:05:18. > :05:22.the kind of excess capacity that we don't really want to have. He
:05:22. > :05:27.canles in Salford contains some of the most deprived streets in
:05:27. > :05:33.Britain. Many of its shops are closed. The unemployed advice
:05:33. > :05:37.centre, though, does a brisk trade, and the man who runs is pessimistic
:05:37. > :05:43.about the kind of growth we are getting. Salford is a branch
:05:43. > :05:48.economy. When companies close down or reduce, they chop the branches
:05:48. > :05:51.off first and Salford was chopped off a number of years ago. The
:05:51. > :05:55.branches aren't growing back yet. Right, right.
:05:55. > :05:59.Poverty on this scale creates its own demand, but not the kind you
:05:59. > :06:03.would ideally want to have. We are employing 13 people to improve the
:06:03. > :06:09.health of the people at the bottom. Which is very bad in a place like
:06:09. > :06:18.this? Horrendous.Why? Too many alcohol outlets, no cinemas,
:06:18. > :06:25.nothing in this area but 77 outlets here to buy or drink alcohol.
:06:25. > :06:29.Within 1,000ms. 77 shops selling alcohol within 1km? Yes.The longer
:06:29. > :06:34.I stayed here I began to wonder what kind of growth it would need
:06:34. > :06:37.to lift this economy out of the world of loan sharks and cheap
:06:37. > :06:41.booze. We have been on the streets five minutes and it is obviously
:06:41. > :06:46.the level of deprivation, what kind of economic recovery would it take
:06:46. > :06:51.to feel it here? It would be a massive thing, Paul. What you need
:06:51. > :06:57.is you need to bring real industry, but you also need to bring and
:06:57. > :07:03.train the generation that hasn't worked in skilled industry. It is
:07:03. > :07:07.doable, but you need, it would be need to be done, in my view, over
:07:07. > :07:12.probably five -to-ten years. Even if tomorrow we find growth on track
:07:12. > :07:16.for 1% or more, the challenge is great. So it's been breakfast in
:07:16. > :07:20.buzzing London, lunch at a factory where they can't grow because they
:07:20. > :07:24.can't find enough skilled workers, and tea, as we call it, here in
:07:24. > :07:31.Salford, where there's lots of compare capacity, people, closed
:07:31. > :07:35.shops, but it is very hard to see how 1% growth so was things. These
:07:35. > :07:39.we call structural problems in economics. There has always been
:07:40. > :07:46.wealth in the south and grit here. But once these streets felt wealthy
:07:46. > :07:50.too. Being here gives a whole new meaning to the term "rebalancing".
:07:50. > :07:55.I'm joined by Bronwyn Curtis, former head of global research at
:07:55. > :08:01.HSBC, and current vice chair of the society of business economists.
:08:01. > :08:06.Dido Harding, CEO of TalkTalk, and the editor of City AM. Let's begin
:08:06. > :08:09.with what is going right now, we don't normally start with this, if
:08:09. > :08:13.the figures are he relatively good? You have growing businesses, I run
:08:13. > :08:18.one. If you look in the papers this evening you will see several
:08:18. > :08:21.businesses reporting growing active ein my sector, in the digital world.
:08:21. > :08:26.But geographically perhaps not in some of the areas we are talking
:08:26. > :08:28.about? Ironically my business is based in Salford. So I would
:08:28. > :08:32.contend that there are growing high-tech businesses in the
:08:32. > :08:36.Manchester area that we should be very proud of as a country, rather
:08:36. > :08:39.than always looking to find the bad. What is interesting is maybe a year
:08:39. > :08:44.ago some people were talking about, maybe there could be a triple-dip
:08:44. > :08:48.recession, we didn't have a double- dip when the figures were revised,
:08:48. > :08:51.have we turned a big corner or not? I don't think we have turned a big
:08:51. > :08:56.corner. It is nice to see positive growth, and perhaps heading for 1%.
:08:56. > :09:00.By this time in the cycle you would hope that it was 2% plus, if not
:09:00. > :09:04.more. One of the things that is happening, of course, is interest
:09:04. > :09:08.rates are really low. So the corporate sector, as we just talked
:09:08. > :09:12.about, is in quite good shape, because they can borrow money
:09:12. > :09:16.cheaply, and they can actually, you know, give something back to their
:09:16. > :09:21.shareholders and so on. But of course they are not investing, what
:09:21. > :09:24.we need to see is more investment coming through. So the economy is
:09:24. > :09:31.still unbalanced, we're not seeing enough exports, but it is better
:09:31. > :09:34.than it was, so we're just not at escape velocity. Any growth is
:09:34. > :09:38.presumably good news? The problem is you can get the wrong kind of
:09:38. > :09:42.growth. That is what we got during the double of the noughties. You
:09:42. > :09:46.had very good GDP figure, every quarter was great, economists jump
:09:46. > :09:49.frping up and down for joy, -- jumping up and down for joy. The
:09:49. > :09:54.Chancellor, Gordon Brown, was jumping up and down, but it was a
:09:54. > :10:01.mirage and it vanished and had to be lick quit quid date. It had been
:10:01. > :10:04.to be the investments that went wrong. We are seeing the wrong kind
:10:04. > :10:07.of growth, consumption, debt consumption, the Chancellor
:10:07. > :10:10.promoting the housing market too much in my point of view. It is the
:10:10. > :10:14.wrong kind of growth, not because of exports or investments, it is
:10:14. > :10:17.because of consumption, Government consumption, private sector
:10:17. > :10:20.consumption, it is because of leverage. What did you make of the
:10:20. > :10:24.BSA story, it was very interesting, it was obvious from Paul's report
:10:24. > :10:27.you do see some people who are older and some people who are
:10:27. > :10:31.apprentices, and not many in the middle. That is the living skills
:10:31. > :10:34.gap, isn't it, it is a problem? think the skills gap is a real
:10:34. > :10:38.challenge for all businesses. But it is something that we should
:10:39. > :10:42.tackle head-on and really invest in ourselves. I would argue the
:10:42. > :10:45.biggest skills gap we have in the country is the digital skills gap.
:10:46. > :10:48.There are 14 million people in this country that don't know how to use
:10:48. > :10:52.the Internet. Seven million people who have never used the Internet.
:10:52. > :10:57.Yet if we want to be an export-led economy the digital exporting trade
:10:57. > :11:02.has to be our future. But that, some parts of that are perhaps
:11:02. > :11:08.solvable quite quick ly, in terms of the apprenticeships, and those
:11:08. > :11:13.fitting in under 60 and over 20, that will take a long time to sort
:11:13. > :11:17.out? I'm ever the optimist, I run an entrepeneural business only
:11:17. > :11:21.started in 2006, we have never known another world. It is possible
:11:21. > :11:24.to start a company and grow it to be sizeable and I compete with
:11:25. > :11:32.bigger companies than mine and be successful, we shouldn't be quite
:11:32. > :11:39.so negative. If you look at what the growth -- Growth Commission and
:11:39. > :11:42.what they talked about to get the qu. Economy growing, one was skills,
:11:43. > :11:46.and investment. On the skills side you need basic skills and general
:11:46. > :11:50.education, as well as vocational education. But I did think the
:11:51. > :11:56.difference between, you know, the elderly sitting there and, elderly,
:11:56. > :12:00.that sounds terribly, the older worker and the apprentice, and you
:12:00. > :12:03.wonder why they haven't inbetween been bringing people through. What
:12:03. > :12:06.happens to those apprentices once they are trained? Where do they go
:12:06. > :12:09.off to? That is a very good question, I don't know if anyone
:12:09. > :12:12.has a good answer, let me know if you have. What we will hear
:12:12. > :12:16.tomorrow, almost certainly, is people saying look at all this good
:12:16. > :12:20.news, it is not perfect, but it is a lot better than it was. But one
:12:20. > :12:25.of the things we have been talking about for years lack of confidence.
:12:25. > :12:27.Can you talk up the economy in a good way? Interestingly enough
:12:27. > :12:35.consumer confidence has really bounced back over the last few
:12:35. > :12:37.years, there is a lot of polls by YouGov and Ipsos MORI showing that.
:12:37. > :12:41.Consumers are more confidence and the economy is doing better in that
:12:41. > :12:45.sense. When you look at the nitty gritty and what is happening, the
:12:45. > :12:48.big decisions, the big decisions are not being taken, you are not
:12:48. > :12:52.seeing massive corporate investment in this country, why, because
:12:52. > :12:54.returns on investment are too low, and planning rules are messed up.
:12:54. > :12:59.You could create sustainable growth if you allowed the private sector
:12:59. > :13:03.to build a new airport or more homes. It is all kinds of problems.
:13:03. > :13:07.To our optimist, to many people it doesn't feel like a recovery, does
:13:07. > :13:11.it, many, many of us have seen real wages shrinking? I run
:13:11. > :13:14.fundamentally a consumer business, and consumers are considerably more
:13:14. > :13:19.savvy than they were a decade ago. They are also poorer than they were
:13:19. > :13:24.five years ago? And they are wiser about where to spend their money. I
:13:24. > :13:27.think we should encourage them to gradually grow in confidence, there
:13:27. > :13:32.is a reason why value for money businesses like mine and Primark
:13:32. > :13:38.are the ones that are really growing, because sadly customers at
:13:38. > :13:43.any income level are choosing value where they find it. How gra --
:13:43. > :13:47.fragile is it, and the fragility is why the Bank of England has sent
:13:47. > :13:52.pretty clear signals that interest rates are not going up soon?
:13:52. > :13:55.need that, and you talked about the consumer and confidence bouncing
:13:55. > :13:59.back, the biggest issue is real disposable income. In other words
:13:59. > :14:03.the money we have in our pocket after inflation is not going up.
:14:03. > :14:06.And that's the biggest risk in the second half of the year, that
:14:06. > :14:12.people have been spending their savings and that you know as we are
:14:12. > :14:16.going into the second half of the year, if they are still feeling
:14:16. > :14:20.poor they will start cutting back again. I think if you can build on
:14:20. > :14:26.the confidence and you know unemployment has gone down. You
:14:26. > :14:30.know, we are growing so if you can get that going it can take off. We
:14:30. > :14:35.are not there yet, the risk is we have to have low interest rates for
:14:35. > :14:37.a very long time, which makes the structure in the economy even more
:14:37. > :14:41.unbalanced. You were the most gloomy of everybody here, but this
:14:41. > :14:45.is hardly, it is not a repeat of the past in the sense that there is
:14:45. > :14:49.no sense of irrational he can subjugate regins? That is in one
:14:50. > :14:53.sector, and that is -- exuburance? That is in the housing
:14:53. > :14:57.market. The Government are now worried that will be the problem.
:14:57. > :15:02.The other area is low interest rates, people are getting used to
:15:02. > :15:04.the fact that money is cheap. It has been so long that it is getting
:15:05. > :15:11.counter-productive. It is unsustainable. Rates will go up to
:15:11. > :15:15.five or six%, and a lot of companies will -- 5-6% and a lot of
:15:15. > :15:20.companies will feel that. You are not worried we will get into a
:15:20. > :15:27.recession? I think maybe in two or three years time when rates go up
:15:27. > :15:33.and companies aren't ready. Provided there is people like you
:15:33. > :15:35.reminding us of that, there are not very many consumers getting and
:15:35. > :15:40.taking advantage of low interest rates, everyone remembers what it
:15:40. > :15:43.was like, they recognise they have to be sensele. That is a quantum
:15:43. > :15:52.shift in the way the population has behaved.
:15:52. > :15:56.Now rescuers are working tonight at the scene of a major train
:15:56. > :16:02.derailment in a northern city of Spain. Up to 35 people could have
:16:02. > :16:07.been killed. We are joined with the latest. What do we know happened
:16:07. > :16:12.here? We believe the train derailed on the neighbourhood on the edge of
:16:12. > :16:15.the regional capital up in the north of Spain at around about 9.00
:16:15. > :16:20.local time. Clearly from the pictures there was a lot of damage,
:16:20. > :16:24.a lot of smoke. One eyewitness account talked about hearing an
:16:24. > :16:29.explosion, about seeing the carriages travel several metres off
:16:29. > :16:32.the tracks after the derailment. We heard from the Spanish Government
:16:32. > :16:37.that the Spanish Prime Minister who is from the area will travel to the
:16:37. > :16:42.region early tomorrow. And just these pictures look absolutely
:16:42. > :16:45.horrendous, just to be clear we think it was a derailment it is
:16:45. > :16:49.only one train involved, that is what we are looking at? That's
:16:49. > :16:53.right. A derailment, one train involved, some early reports, and
:16:53. > :16:57.these are unconfirmed reports out of Spanish press talking about a
:16:57. > :17:00.particular curve that the train was going round. Some concerns
:17:00. > :17:04.apparently from local media being reported by local media from
:17:04. > :17:08.engineers at the scene. But early reports suggest at least 35 people
:17:08. > :17:14.have died. Some reports that actually the regional Government is
:17:14. > :17:20.now appealing for blood donors to come forward. This was an Alvia
:17:21. > :17:23.train, it is not the high-speed rail service, this country has an
:17:23. > :17:28.impressive network of high-speed trains, but this was a different
:17:28. > :17:37.train travelling on the same route up to the capital from the area
:17:37. > :17:41.earlier tonight. The idea of curing a psychiatric
:17:41. > :17:45.illness bypass ago jolt of electricity through the Brian -- by
:17:45. > :17:49.passing a jolt of electricity through the brain has been thought
:17:49. > :17:54.to be a thing of the past. But thousands of patients these days
:17:54. > :17:57.are still being given ECT in a also-ditch attempt to treat
:17:57. > :18:01.depression. Since it was last used doctors have argued over how and
:18:02. > :18:11.why the treatment might work for some. A team in Aberdeen think they
:18:12. > :18:12.
:18:12. > :18:20.are closer than ever to solving the problem. This film contains some
:18:20. > :18:26.scenes that viewers might find upsetting. Born in the asylums of
:18:26. > :18:36.the 20th century. A new breed of treatments meant to cure the most
:18:36. > :18:38.
:18:38. > :18:42.seriously ill. Some of them fell out of favour as the old asylums
:18:42. > :18:50.closed down. One though is quietly being used in hospitals up and down
:18:50. > :18:54.the country. ECT started out as an experiment. Doctors noticed some
:18:54. > :19:00.heavily distressed patients would suddenly improve after an epileptic
:19:01. > :19:05.fit. Passing an electric current through the brain could trigger a
:19:05. > :19:09.similar seizure, and they hoped, a similar response .5 years later it
:19:09. > :19:15.is still one of the most controversial, most devisive
:19:15. > :19:19.treatments in mental health. I have an advanced statement that says, my
:19:20. > :19:23.colleagues all know this, if I'm ever severely depressed or psyche
:19:23. > :19:30.cotic with depression, this is the treatment I would want for me.
:19:30. > :19:38.convinced that in 10-15 years we will have put ECT in the same
:19:38. > :19:43.rubbish bin as lobotomy, surprise baths and on and on. My mother was
:19:43. > :19:50.absolutely totally against it. She thought it was barbaric, she had
:19:50. > :19:53.seen a friend in the 50s have that treatment in the old psychiatric
:19:53. > :20:00.hospital in Aberdeen and she really didn't want me to go on with it.
:20:00. > :20:07.She thought I could snap out of it. John Wattie is one of a small but
:20:08. > :20:13.growing number in Scotland, who agreed to have an experimental form
:20:13. > :20:17.of electroconvulsive therapy. A regular top-up dose every month to
:20:17. > :20:21.keep his severe depression in check. He has suffered from the illness
:20:21. > :20:25.since a breakdown triggered by the collapse of his marriage and stress
:20:25. > :20:30.at work. We had a nice house, a nice lifestyle and it was all
:20:30. > :20:33.crumbling and falling away because of me, or because of her, but I
:20:33. > :20:42.think it was probably because of my depression, just started to
:20:42. > :20:52.overwhelm me. I just lost control, I became violent, I became, I just
:20:52. > :21:00.
:21:00. > :21:05.you know ...hoi to describe it? I came, I didn't want to live, I
:21:05. > :21:11.didn't want to commit suicide but I didn't want to live. Drugs and
:21:11. > :21:16.therapy couldn't lift him out of the hole. John's doctor suggested
:21:16. > :21:18.regular ECT under general anaesthetic, alongside a course of
:21:18. > :21:24.anti-depressants, his next treatment is due soon and he's
:21:24. > :21:30.letting us film the process. months coming up I find that I get
:21:30. > :21:40.overwhelmed by emotions. I feel the depression coming back again. It
:21:40. > :21:42.
:21:43. > :21:50.frightens me. It really does frighten me. So I know I need it
:21:50. > :21:56.tomorrow, I know I need it. We saw John arrive and get himself on to a
:21:56. > :22:03.trolley. I feel fine, but I know that I'm ready for my next ECT. I
:22:04. > :22:09.know I feel a bit tearful with it and it is time to have a top-up.
:22:09. > :22:15.The next step is to set up monitoring to make sure he's safe
:22:15. > :22:20.during the treatment. I'm going it put on the EEG monitoring, you saw
:22:20. > :22:24.electrodes being put on to measure his heart's activity, to check his
:22:24. > :22:27.oxygen levels. I put on electrodes on his forehead and behind his ears
:22:27. > :22:37.to measure his brain waves to get the sense of the quality of the
:22:37. > :22:43.
:22:43. > :22:49.seizure and how long it lasted. The next step then was for the anise
:22:49. > :22:59.thirst to start giving him the -- anaesthetist to give him the
:22:59. > :23:04.
:23:05. > :23:09.medicines, and then a muscle relaxant to relax his muscles. Then
:23:09. > :23:18.his lungs were hyper-inflated with oxygen so his oxygen levels was as
:23:18. > :23:23.high as possible. At that point I was in a position to put the
:23:23. > :23:33.electrodes on each side of his head, and initiate the seizure by passing
:23:33. > :23:40.
:23:40. > :23:43.the electric current. Go! (beeping) you saw there that initially John
:23:43. > :23:53.grimaceed, not because he was in pain, but because we were
:23:53. > :23:58.stimulating the muscles around his face directly with the electricity.
:23:58. > :24:08.Then after that we could see from the EEG that a seizure had been
:24:08. > :24:10.
:24:10. > :24:14.produced. OK that's about 25 seconds on the EEG. That's good.
:24:14. > :24:18.What we have just seen is still one of the most controversial
:24:18. > :24:22.treatments, not just in psychiatry, but medicine itself. Passing an
:24:22. > :24:27.electric current through the brain to trigger a seizure does seem to
:24:27. > :24:30.be effective for many patients. But it is only now, 75 years after ECT
:24:30. > :24:40.was first used that doctors are starting to find out why it might
:24:40. > :24:44.
:24:44. > :24:50.work. The use of MRI scanners and neural image has changed how many
:24:50. > :24:53.psychiatrists think about mental illness. One theory gaining grown
:24:53. > :24:59.is hyper-connectivity, certain parts of the brain can become
:24:59. > :25:04.overconnected or overloaded, that could be to blame for disorders
:25:04. > :25:08.from depression to autism. In Aberdeen the research team scanned
:25:08. > :25:12.the brains of nine people undergoing a full course of
:25:12. > :25:17.treatment. We looked at severely depressed patients before treatment
:25:17. > :25:22.and after successful treatment with ECT. What we did is we looked at
:25:22. > :25:28.the connectivity within the brain. And before the treatment, when the
:25:28. > :25:33.patient was severely depress the, you -- depressed, you can see all
:25:33. > :25:39.the orange areas, we don't see that in healthy people. After successful
:25:39. > :25:44.treatment with ECT, all the orange connectivity disappeared, and we
:25:44. > :25:47.saw this relative low small area, shown in blue here, still connected.
:25:47. > :25:57.That is actually quite normal. That is what we would expect to see in
:25:57. > :26:07.healthy people. Are you ready? latest academic interest in ECT
:26:07. > :26:08.
:26:08. > :26:18.come after decades of falling use. Its brutal depiction in One Flew
:26:18. > :26:18.
:26:18. > :26:24.Over The Cuckoo's Nest, is the beginning of the end. The BBC's
:26:24. > :26:26.White Heat, here set in 1973 shows a patient given ECT without
:26:26. > :26:31.anaesthetic, something that wouldn't happen now. For around
:26:32. > :26:36.4,000 people a year it is still the treatment of last resort. One in
:26:36. > :26:42.three are so ill they are not capable of giving consent, two
:26:42. > :26:51.thirds are women with an average age of 60. We had a holiday in
:26:51. > :26:59.Egypt. It was February 1997, it would have been just a few months
:26:59. > :27:06.before that ECT and it has wiped all memories of this holiday.
:27:06. > :27:10.Crane was given two rounds of ECT in the late 190s, she blames the
:27:10. > :27:15.second course for wiepg out years of her memory, and making her
:27:15. > :27:23.forget even basic words or phrases. Immediately afterwards very bad
:27:23. > :27:30.headaches. Then you think, I have just had the treatment, that's
:27:30. > :27:38.perhaps to be expected. But, immediately, and I knew something
:27:38. > :27:44.wasn't right. I had this instinct that something was wrong with my
:27:44. > :27:49.mother but I couldn't remember that she had died. Then I had to say to
:27:49. > :27:58.my husband, Chris, what is, what has happened to my mother. He had
:27:58. > :28:02.to tell me that in fact she had died nearly two years earlier. That
:28:02. > :28:12.was quite devastating. It is like going through bereavement all over
:28:12. > :28:15.
:28:15. > :28:25.again. Getting the words wrong is a nuisance, it is annoying. It is
:28:25. > :28:28.
:28:28. > :28:36.pretty... Now I have lost the word. It is frustrating. But to have lost
:28:36. > :28:41.really basic important things in your life is just awful. Critics of
:28:41. > :28:46.ECT say around a third of patients notice some sort of permanent
:28:46. > :28:51.change like this, from memory loss to problems with speech, or basic
:28:51. > :28:56.skills like counting money. The author of a scathing research paper
:28:56. > :29:00.into the treatment says it is outdated, dangerous, and only
:29:01. > :29:06.effective in the very short-term. What happens is it is a little bit
:29:06. > :29:11.like a charging up a rundown car battery, to be crude, it is not
:29:11. > :29:15.difficult to get artificial changes in the brain, you could do it with
:29:15. > :29:19.cocaine. It is not difficult, that doesn't last, of course, and then
:29:19. > :29:23.you find three, four weeks later the person is either back at the
:29:23. > :29:26.same level of depression or, many studies show, even worse levels of
:29:26. > :29:31.depression. Then of course some of those people think I felt really
:29:31. > :29:35.good right after the ECT, give me another one. Then they get into
:29:36. > :29:39.this endless cycle and it is perhaps a form of addiction. It is
:29:39. > :29:43.not in any way addressing the as you of their depression. It is
:29:43. > :29:47.systematically and gradually wiping out their memory and their
:29:47. > :29:51.cognitive function at the same time. There are risks associated with any
:29:51. > :29:56.kind of medical treatment for severe illnesses, it is important
:29:56. > :30:00.to appreciate the folks getting ECT are suffering from an illness that
:30:00. > :30:06.could kill them. It is a balance that has to be struck between good
:30:06. > :30:09.effects and adverse effects? It doesn't make you uneasy to pass
:30:09. > :30:13.an electric current through somebody who doesn't want it done?
:30:13. > :30:17.It made me uneasy as a doctor that I couldn't do that for someone who
:30:17. > :30:20.was clearly suffering and whose life was threatened and who I knew
:30:20. > :30:25.I would be able to make better through the treatment.
:30:25. > :30:32.Waking up from the anaesthetic John says he immediately feels better.
:30:32. > :30:36.And any memory loss quickly passes. I feel as if my batteries have been
:30:36. > :30:40.recharged, you know yesterday I kept telling you that I feel I'm
:30:40. > :30:44.just about to fall into that deep hole again. I wasn't depressed, but
:30:44. > :30:51.I felt that I was going to be. That's totally gone already, it is
:30:51. > :31:01.totally gone. I feel happy, eager to get on with life again, and to
:31:01. > :31:02.
:31:02. > :31:10.me it is a miracle treatment for me. Our understanding of the brain is
:31:10. > :31:16.still in its infancy. Perhaps by discovering why ECT might work, new
:31:16. > :31:20.treatments can be developed without the same brutal side-effects. Both
:31:20. > :31:25.its supporters and critics hope that putting an electric current
:31:25. > :31:35.through the most complex organ in the body will one day looks a dated
:31:35. > :31:37.
:31:37. > :31:41.as those asylums and mad houses of times gone past.
:31:41. > :31:51.For details of organisations which offer advice and support on
:31:51. > :31:59.
:31:59. > :32:09.Let's discuss that report with a journalist who has written about
:32:09. > :32:09.
:32:09. > :32:14.her on positive experiences with ECT, and Jane Harris who is from
:32:14. > :32:21.ReThink Mental Illness. Should we re-think ECT, I had the One Flew
:32:21. > :32:26.Over The Cuckoo's Nest idea? need to look at ECT being good for
:32:26. > :32:31.some people, as we might look for chemotherapy which has severe side-
:32:31. > :32:36.effects for curing cancer and some people might want to try it. Why
:32:36. > :32:38.aren't we further ahead in mental health treatments, and not all
:32:38. > :32:42.treatments are available for everybody at the moment. Were you
:32:42. > :32:46.struck by the question of connectivity, ECT may be revealing
:32:46. > :32:50.something very important, even if it is not the way of involving that
:32:50. > :32:53.problem? Absolutely -- solving that problem. Absolutely, we are making
:32:53. > :32:58.breakthroughs in neuroscience and we should invest much more. At the
:32:58. > :33:01.moment the whole of mental health research gets 5% of the research
:33:01. > :33:04.budget. Even though we know the World Health Organisation says
:33:04. > :33:08.depression alone will be the leading cause of disability by 2020.
:33:08. > :33:11.If we want to be competitive as a country, you were talking about the
:33:11. > :33:14.economy earlier, we have to be a healthy society, we need much
:33:14. > :33:19.better treatment for all the people unfortunate enough to suffer
:33:19. > :33:23.depression. When you watch that film, it must have struck a lot of
:33:23. > :33:26.chords for you? It is really interesting. Did you see it as the
:33:26. > :33:32.last resort having tried other things? I had tried everything,
:33:32. > :33:36.every pill under the sun, different types of therapy, CBT, mindfulness.
:33:36. > :33:40.I felt absolutely rock bottom when I tried it t I didn't feel I could
:33:40. > :33:44.feel any worse. It looks to an outsider it looks pretty horrible?
:33:44. > :33:47.It doesn't matter what it looks like, what matters is what it is
:33:47. > :33:51.like for you undergoing it, you are asleep. Most people don't realise.
:33:51. > :33:56.You have a general anaesthetic, you don't convulse. You are asleep. And
:33:56. > :34:01.quite often you wake up and feel better. You suffered from some
:34:01. > :34:07.small side-effects didn't you? have comparatively minor side-
:34:07. > :34:11.effects, I have some short-term memory loss and a slightly slower
:34:11. > :34:15.brain function. But it is annoying, it is no more than that, it is not
:34:15. > :34:19.nothing but it is not much worse than annoying. It is interesting
:34:19. > :34:23.the comparison to chemotherapy, it is better than the disease? Yeah.
:34:23. > :34:27.The comparison is, it is enormous. What did you make though, I know
:34:27. > :34:32.some of the figures here are very difficult to get quite right, but
:34:32. > :34:37.the idea that a third of patients feel quite serious side-effects, if
:34:37. > :34:41.it was a drug that had a third of people saying this gives me serious
:34:41. > :34:43.side-effects we probably wouldn't use it? I'm not sure that is true
:34:43. > :34:49.in mental health. Unfortunately some of the drugs we use in mental
:34:49. > :34:53.health go back to the 50s and beyond as well. People who psyche
:34:53. > :34:58.anti-psychotic drugs if they have schizophrenia, you have men who
:34:58. > :35:02.might lack Tate as a result of that, and people who shake -- lactate all
:35:02. > :35:07.the time and others who might shake all the time. People need to know
:35:07. > :35:12.all the risks where they can say that is the one I can cope with the
:35:12. > :35:16.side-effects. People don't get the choice to decide because they are
:35:16. > :35:19.considered too ill? And people don't get psychotherapy which
:35:20. > :35:24.doesn't have side-effects. We have had a massive increase in the
:35:24. > :35:30.number of psychologists for those with mild-to-moderate depression,
:35:30. > :35:35.but for those with chronic and fits freenia there is less, that is a
:35:36. > :35:39.scandal, that should the top of Jeremy Hunt's to-do-list and it
:35:39. > :35:44.isn't. Just to ask you on the specific thing, you heard one of
:35:44. > :35:48.the scientists in the piece saying, the trouble is, it is a bit like
:35:48. > :35:52.cocaine. Do you see any analogy that it is something, it is a
:35:52. > :35:58.treatment, not a cure and it becomes addictive? It is a funny
:35:58. > :36:03.word toe use, "addictive", can you be addicted to feeling normal. You
:36:03. > :36:08.feel so awful, it is hard to imagine what it is like to feel be
:36:08. > :36:12.severely depressed, it is not a high it is normal again. Do you
:36:12. > :36:16.think it is important to change the perception of this from the
:36:16. > :36:20.stereotypes that we have seen? is very important. The stigma
:36:20. > :36:24.around it, I'm sure it puts a lot of people off. I would urge anyone
:36:24. > :36:29.who is thinking about it to find out what the facts are and not the
:36:29. > :36:37.myths around ECT. The process itself is not that scary. There may
:36:37. > :36:42.or may not be side-effects for each individual person.
:36:42. > :36:45.Film premiers in Hollywood or Cannes are ten a penny. But today a
:36:46. > :36:49.great blockbuster chose to premier in Norwich. The reason, the star
:36:50. > :36:53.Alan Partridge told his fans, the film is his love letter to Norwich.
:36:53. > :36:58.Fans of Partridge and his creator, Steve Coogan, will be impressed
:36:58. > :37:04.with the loyalty to the city which made him famous, or the other way
:37:04. > :37:13.around T prompted us to think about how loyal are we to the cities of
:37:13. > :37:21.our roots and how irritated are we with criticism of beloved town.
:37:21. > :37:29.That was soft drugs and cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac.
:37:29. > :37:36.I was having a great conversation Norwich's most sun-tanned child,
:37:36. > :37:40.passed that on to social services. He's in a new radio show in Norwich.
:37:40. > :37:46.After a campaign on social media the film had its premier in the
:37:46. > :37:51.city. The other reason I'm here is because of security. When you're on
:37:51. > :37:55.the red carpet it is very easy for a sniper to take you out. But do
:37:55. > :38:05.the Partridge team ever feel guilty about what they have done to Alan's
:38:05. > :38:09.adoptive city. I like Norwich, I have an aunt who lives in Norwich,
:38:09. > :38:13.we have nothing against Norwich, we thought it was funny that a
:38:13. > :38:17.character like Alan came from Norwich. We couldn't think of any
:38:17. > :38:22.other comedy character who came from Norwich. There was one Lord
:38:22. > :38:26.Mayor of Norwich who said Alan has done more destruction to the image
:38:26. > :38:33.of Alan than any group of terrorists could. But fortunately
:38:33. > :38:39.the most recent Lord Mayor has welcomed the investment and tourism
:38:39. > :38:43.that Alan will bring to the city. The writers put Partridge in
:38:43. > :38:46.Norwich because it was tantalisingly out of reach of
:38:46. > :38:52.London. There is always in these things some element of truth. Those
:38:52. > :38:58.of us who know the city see the good side of that. But we are,
:38:58. > :39:03.perhaps, some what removed from Metropolitan life, that brings with
:39:03. > :39:07.it a whole host of rather attractive features in terms of way
:39:07. > :39:11.of life for those living here, and speaking to everybody who lives in
:39:11. > :39:15.the area they would endorse that view. It is weird if you visit this
:39:15. > :39:21.country it all looks the same, if you get off at Bristol or Glasgow
:39:21. > :39:25.itle all looks a bit the same. No offence to those cities. It is a
:39:25. > :39:28.weird thing, Birmingham they stalk funny, Devon they are stupid,
:39:28. > :39:32.Bristol nobody really knows, Cardiff it is not really a city.
:39:32. > :39:37.All these stereotypes of what are essentially similar places. It just
:39:37. > :39:44.gives us little markers in the featureless bland landscape of our
:39:44. > :39:50.lives. AliG, is, of course a favourite son
:39:50. > :39:56.of Staines in Surrey. His posse, you will we are, of the West
:39:56. > :40:02.Staines Massive. He's not really from Staines at although, that is
:40:02. > :40:05.Staines-upon-Thames to you. The town has felt it necessary to
:40:05. > :40:13.emphasise its beautiful river associations. Take a look, Staines
:40:13. > :40:19.is a green, leafy Thames side town, with a fantastic history, a
:40:19. > :40:22.brilliant environment, fantastic strategic links for investment. It
:40:22. > :40:27.is incredibly popular with international commuters. It has
:40:27. > :40:34.great things going for it. You make it sound a bit like Monaco,
:40:34. > :40:43.businessmen and king pins living here? They both have a Riviera-
:40:44. > :40:51.style ambience in the summer, and I have no idea whether Monoco boasts
:40:51. > :40:57.so many good pubs. How many of your problems down to Ali G? We wouldn't
:40:57. > :41:02.have got so much press coverage changing the name to Staines-upon-
:41:02. > :41:12.Thames if it wasn't for Ali G. He has done damage and he has got his
:41:12. > :41:13.
:41:13. > :41:16.place in the town's history and I'm about the future. The history of
:41:16. > :41:21.lino flooring might be different without the contribution of Staines,
:41:21. > :41:27.apparently, but it makes no difference. There is a second
:41:27. > :41:36.category of funny towns and it is ones with funny names, Staines is
:41:36. > :41:44.one, Slough, my parents are from Bubbly Staunton, Bogor was the
:41:44. > :41:51.funnyiest place in Britain because it contained the name "toilet" in
:41:51. > :41:54.its name. Doncaster won't get them rolling in the aisles. Staines,
:41:54. > :42:04.with the schoolboy humour of Ali G, Staines is the funnyiest place in
:42:04. > :42:05.
:42:05. > :42:09.the world, I'm sure it has nothing to do with semen. Does the Alan
:42:09. > :42:16.Partridge premier in the city make up for his teasing of the city?
:42:16. > :42:22.After the slap in the face, the kiss to make it better? Let's have
:42:22. > :42:28.a few words with the man who wrote the book Crap Towns, a compendium
:42:29. > :42:34.of Britain's most derided and picked on places. He's in a studio
:42:34. > :42:38.near his home near Norwich. I take it Norwich doesn't make it into the
:42:38. > :42:43.book of crap towns? It is a very lovely town. You are only saying
:42:43. > :42:46.that because you live there or it is lovely? I'm saying it because I
:42:46. > :42:50.value my safety! I'm saying it because it is a great place. I
:42:50. > :42:56.moved here out of choice, believe it or not. It is interesting, we
:42:56. > :43:03.heard from the comedy writer why certain towns get picked upon.
:43:03. > :43:06.Slough has been picked on since John Betchimen, is there a defining
:43:06. > :43:10.characteristic that links the towns? If you look at any town long
:43:11. > :43:20.enough you will find something wrong with it, that is why the book
:43:20. > :43:26.Crap Towns, works so well. Places like Slough do bring up an image of
:43:26. > :43:31.bord mold, roundabouts, there are d boredom, roundabouts, they bring up
:43:31. > :43:36.patterns. You are being polite about Norwich, but when a town
:43:36. > :43:45.features in your book you decide to put it in people won't be out
:43:45. > :43:50.cheering in the streets, it is not like being in Who's Who? People
:43:50. > :43:53.feel differently, it is nominations from people in the town and the
:43:53. > :43:57.ones with the most votes get in. It is a chance for people to put the
:43:57. > :44:01.opposite point of view. They get a lot of publicity when the town
:44:01. > :44:05.comes out. They get a chance to put a good word in. Presumably part of
:44:05. > :44:09.it is being able to have a laugh about yourself. We heard that
:44:09. > :44:16.gentleman from Staines who was very amusing, and Alan Partridge, he
:44:16. > :44:21.hasn't donor itch any harm, has he? That is right. - done Norwich any
:44:21. > :44:27.harm has he? That is right. I think people do enjoy laughing at
:44:27. > :44:33.themselves in Britain and it is funny. Is it quite often to do with
:44:33. > :44:38.snobbery, have you any posh towns in the crap towns category? There
:44:38. > :44:42.is probably more posh towns than urban deprivation does feature. But
:44:42. > :44:46.posh towns and the unique problems that go with them feature more.
:44:47. > :44:56.Chipping Norton is a big contender this time round. OK, we won't go
:44:56. > :45:00.there. Thank you very much. That's it from us. We wanted to leave you
:45:00. > :45:05.with one further reflection of our loyalty to our cities and towns and
:45:05. > :45:09.their symbols. Liverpool have been playing a friendly in Melbourne
:45:09. > :45:12.Australia, suddenly the 100,000- strong scenes might make you think
:45:12. > :45:22.there is a special bond between the two great cities at the opposite
:45:22. > :45:23.
:45:23. > :45:32.ends of the earth. # Walk on
:45:32. > :45:42.# With hope in your heart # And you'll never walk
:45:42. > :45:44.
:45:44. > :45:54.# Alone # You'll never walk
:45:54. > :45:57.
:45:57. > :46:00.# Alone # Alone
:46:00. > :46:06.Good evening to you the summer weather continues so we are still
:46:06. > :46:08.in the midst of this warmish spell, humidity and moisture out there.
:46:08. > :46:11.Showers and thunderstorms will be breaking out through parts of
:46:11. > :46:16.northern England and northern England. Northern Ireland and
:46:16. > :46:22.Scotland, these areas, the downpours could be heavy. Hail and
:46:22. > :46:25.gusty winds as well. Temperatures, nothing spectacular, but it is this
:46:25. > :46:28.humidity in the air that is basically the source of these big
:46:28. > :46:32.storms. Towards the south of the country the weather will be better,
:46:32. > :46:36.there will be more sunshine around, the temperatures will reach the
:46:36. > :46:40.mid-20s, it has been a very long time since we have been only
:46:40. > :46:44.forecasting around 34 degrees in the London area. Today we got up to
:46:44. > :46:49.28 Celsius. For the south west of the country, a fresher, more
:46:49. > :46:53.pleasant 20 degrees in Plymouth. An outside chance of a shower. If any
:46:53. > :46:56.showers brew across Wales it is more likely across northern parts
:46:56. > :47:00.of Wales. The same theme continues, northern parts of the country more
:47:00. > :47:03.likely to catch the showers. Most scater, thunderstorms too, towards
:47:03. > :47:06.the south warmer, dryer and brighter. Towards the end of the