:00:14. > :00:21.Once again the people whose job it is to started start once again the
:00:21. > :00:27.people whose job it is to pro-- -- protect the children have failed
:00:27. > :00:30.miserably. The man who is sent in tells us it has highlighted a
:00:30. > :00:34.crisis in social services. They are overwhelmed and there is nothing
:00:34. > :00:38.that I can see that suggests this will not be getting more of a
:00:38. > :00:42.difficulty. I'm really worried And he's here tonight to discuss
:00:42. > :00:46.what might be done to stop other children being murdered.
:00:46. > :00:51.Also tonight on the streets of Cairo protesters supporting the
:00:51. > :00:56.ousted Islamist Government refuse orders by the army to leave. The
:00:56. > :01:00.stand-off between Egypt's generals and supporters of the former
:01:00. > :01:05.President continues, can it really be resolved in such a way that
:01:05. > :01:09.leaves any hope for elections? A new set of peers announced today
:01:09. > :01:14.will join the already overstuffed House of Lords and it seems being
:01:14. > :01:19.on a certain nightly news programme might have swung it for a cop of
:01:19. > :01:23.them. People probably saw --A couple of them. People saw me maybe
:01:23. > :01:27.doing strategic thinking and maybe thought I would play a role in the
:01:27. > :01:33.House of Lords. It is not us just making a joke of it, do you think
:01:33. > :01:39.it had something to do with it? is mainly you making a joke of it.
:01:39. > :01:44.And the election in Iran was supposed to thau relations between
:01:44. > :01:50.the west, but the screws have been tightened further. We ask his
:01:50. > :02:00.right-hand man what we can expect of the new regime on the eve of the
:02:00. > :02:01.
:02:01. > :02:06.President's swearing in. They turned Daniel from a bright-
:02:06. > :02:10.eyed little boy into a bag of bones, they basically broke him in so many
:02:10. > :02:16.ways. The words of a senior officer responsible for the investigation
:02:16. > :02:19.into the death of four-year-old Daniel Pelka. Today it was said the
:02:19. > :02:25.horrific catalogue of abuse should be on everyone's conscience. This
:02:25. > :02:31.was a little boy who went to school as he was being starved, force-fed
:02:31. > :02:35.salt, beaten, held under water in his bath, and looked in a cold
:02:35. > :02:41.empty room at night. Tonight Newsnight talks to a man about
:02:41. > :02:45.where the failures in the social care system lie, and the system
:02:45. > :02:49.that is supposed to protect children, and his prognosis is very
:02:49. > :02:53.worrying indeed. We have this report.
:02:53. > :02:57.He was starved and beaten on a regular basis, he was imprisoned in
:02:57. > :03:02.a box room, he was drowned to the point of unconsciousness on
:03:02. > :03:07.occasion, he was also poisoned with salt. So yes an absolutely wretched
:03:07. > :03:13.existence for this little boy. There is no shortage of
:03:13. > :03:17.horrorifying descriptions of Daniel Pelka's suffering, or disbelief
:03:17. > :03:20.that so many opportunities were missed to intervene. In the 14
:03:20. > :03:24.months before his death there were visits to his home by social
:03:24. > :03:30.workers, health workers and teachers. There was a police
:03:30. > :03:33.investigation and three weeks before he died he was examined by a
:03:33. > :03:38.paediatrician. I think testifies one-and-a-half stone. Today began a
:03:38. > :03:45.search for answers. And the inevitable finger-pointing. I think
:03:45. > :03:48.his death should be on all of our consciences. You are in a unique
:03:48. > :03:53.position, what should the Government be doing? What we have
:03:53. > :03:57.done already is get rid of a lot of complexity and bureaucracy that we
:03:57. > :04:00.worried might have meant that cases were not picked up earlier.
:04:00. > :04:04.Everybody knew but nobody did anybody about it. Nobody felt they
:04:04. > :04:07.were directly responsible for it and that it was their job that they
:04:07. > :04:12.were paid for to put it right to do something about it. That's what
:04:12. > :04:15.went wrong. Coventry's child services department is now subject
:04:15. > :04:21.to an official review for its handling of this case. But it is
:04:21. > :04:25.not alone in facing scrutiny. According to Ofsted one in four of
:04:25. > :04:29.the country's child protection units are failing. Ray Jones is the
:04:29. > :04:35.man Ofsted sends in to work with councils struggling to cope. He can
:04:35. > :04:38.see how social workers in Coventry might have missed things. This is
:04:39. > :04:42.my concern, that people don't have the time at the moment to find out
:04:42. > :04:47.what they need to find out. We don't get to know what we need to
:04:47. > :04:51.know. People are rushing from case- to-case, family-to-family, child-
:04:51. > :04:55.to-child, trying to close the ones down that we think maybe that is OK,
:04:55. > :04:59.but we're not sure but we can't stick with it because we have to
:04:59. > :05:03.make space for new referrals and notifications. So, yes, with what
:05:03. > :05:06.we know now people would have clearly done different things. But
:05:07. > :05:11.it is understandable for me in terms of the pressure the system is
:05:11. > :05:15.under why people don't necessarily know what they need to know. In the
:05:15. > :05:19.last five years the number of children in the child protection
:05:19. > :05:24.system has increased. Child protection orders have gone up by
:05:24. > :05:29.47%, while care proceedings, which is when social services apply to a
:05:29. > :05:36.court for a child to be taken into care have gone up 64%. And the
:05:36. > :05:39.number of children ending up in care has increased by 13%. Ray
:05:39. > :05:42.Jones reports regularly to the Children's Minister, and this is
:05:42. > :05:46.what he has been telling him. the council has put in some more
:05:46. > :05:50.resources, money, by taking money from elsewhere, finding it
:05:50. > :05:54.increasingly difficult to do that because the public sector
:05:54. > :05:57.expenditure cuts. But they are all doing it in a context where they
:05:57. > :06:01.are struggling to keep up with the demand coming through the front
:06:01. > :06:04.door. They can't recruit enough social workers to stay around to
:06:04. > :06:08.make sure they know the families who they need to know well. Is the
:06:08. > :06:11.Children's Minister listening? minister replies to me in terms of
:06:11. > :06:15.thanking me for my letters. I appreciate that he will have read
:06:15. > :06:18.the letter and civil servants will have read the letter, do I see it
:06:18. > :06:23.getting better on the ground? No, I see increasing poverty for families,
:06:23. > :06:27.I see increasing pressure and difficulty for coping with work
:06:27. > :06:30.loads for social workers and police officers and paediatricians. I see
:06:30. > :06:39.nothing at the moment which suggests to me that it is going to
:06:39. > :06:42.get better rather than worse. According to the NSPCC it is a
:06:42. > :06:47.recuring theme of child abuse cases that people notice something is
:06:47. > :06:53.wrong, but shy away from getting involved. Why do you think it is
:06:53. > :06:56.that people don't come forward? is a lack of confidence a kind of
:06:56. > :07:01.reticence about getting involved in someone else's business, I suppose.
:07:01. > :07:09.It is quite a big thing to comment on what another person's child
:07:09. > :07:16.might be experiencing, and yet if you have the courage to speak up
:07:16. > :07:20.you could be saving a child's life. Daniel Pelka will not be the only
:07:20. > :07:26.little boy to die as a result of abuse this year. More than 50
:07:26. > :07:30.children are likely to be killed by those meant to be caring for them.
:07:30. > :07:35.Watching that with me in the studio is ray Jones, who you saw in that
:07:35. > :07:42.film, also we have the chief executive of the children's charity
:07:42. > :07:44.Action for Children, and councillor David Simmonds, Chair of the Local
:07:45. > :07:54.Government Association Children and Young People Board. Ray if I may
:07:54. > :07:58.start with you, Victoria Climbe, Baby Peter Connelly, how many times
:07:58. > :08:03.do we have to have the same soul- destroying conversations? We have
:08:03. > :08:10.had them a lot for the last 40 years, we can go back to 1943 and
:08:10. > :08:15.the first story was about Maria Colewell in Brighton. Every year
:08:15. > :08:18.50-70 children are dying because of neglect by parents or carers. It is
:08:18. > :08:22.there every day for people doing child protection. It only hits the
:08:22. > :08:25.public attention from time to time. But I'm afraid it is the working
:08:25. > :08:28.experience of people trying to protect children that sometimes
:08:28. > :08:34.they are not able to do so. thing is we are promised so much
:08:34. > :08:37.when a high-profile case takes place, and post- Baby P and all the
:08:37. > :08:41.attention that was diverted, we were assured that problems had been
:08:41. > :08:47.fixed, we were assured that there would be early intervention, what
:08:47. > :08:50.happened with that? There are, it is not an unremittingly grim story,
:08:50. > :08:55.there have been some improvements across the system. But we have a
:08:55. > :08:59.real worry about what's happening on early intervention. Eileen Munro
:08:59. > :09:02.made a clear recommendation in her very good report that a duty should
:09:02. > :09:06.be introduced for local authorities on early intervention. That wasn't
:09:06. > :09:09.followed up by the Government. The recommendation of also supported by
:09:09. > :09:13.the Select Committee that reported last year, that was a huge missed
:09:13. > :09:16.opportunity. As was said, at a time when resores are incredibly tight
:09:17. > :09:22.and local authorities are having to cut back and need is going up,
:09:22. > :09:26.there needs to be something positive in place to help local
:09:26. > :09:29.authorities to commission services specifically for early intervention.
:09:29. > :09:32.Just under 40% of children, in different parts of the UK, will
:09:32. > :09:36.present and are first registered for child protection purposes
:09:36. > :09:39.because of neglect. We know we can make a huge difference in the lives
:09:39. > :09:43.of children if we can intervene early enough. You just mentioned
:09:43. > :09:48.funding there, but I'm just looking at the number of interventions that
:09:48. > :09:53.took place in this case, January 2011, Daniel has a broken arm,
:09:53. > :09:57.February 2011, fails to turn up for a follow-up appointment, March 2011
:09:57. > :10:01.police visit the home. June 2011 social services close the file.
:10:01. > :10:06.July 2011 a health worker visit, I'm not even half way through this
:10:06. > :10:10.list. There were plenty of people involved in this, there didn't seem
:10:10. > :10:13.to be a want of personnel. There was a want of action, David
:10:13. > :10:16.Simmonds? You are absolutely right. Mums and dads up and down the
:10:16. > :10:20.country will be looking at the coverage of this appalling case and
:10:20. > :10:24.thinking how can this go on in a family without it being noticed and
:10:24. > :10:27.stopped. You are absolutely right to highlight funding. It was
:10:27. > :10:31.noticed, they won't be asking that, it was noticed by a number of
:10:31. > :10:34.people? As well as the resources in the system to deal with a very
:10:34. > :10:37.large increase in the number of children needing help, we also need
:10:37. > :10:40.to make sure there is a real shared culture of responsibility among
:10:40. > :10:44.councils and among schools and the police working together to sort
:10:44. > :10:47.this out. I think everybody will accept that we all should be
:10:47. > :10:53.working together to stop children being killed by those who wish them
:10:53. > :10:58.harm. What people will want to know is why on these 11 interactions
:10:58. > :11:02.with police, with teachers, with healthcare professionals, did
:11:02. > :11:05.nobody yank that child out of that hell and save his life? In the
:11:05. > :11:08.areas of the country where this is working well somebody would have
:11:09. > :11:12.done, quite possibly the very first time that child came through the
:11:12. > :11:16.door of a children's centre or GPs' surgery, somebody would have said
:11:16. > :11:20.something is wrong here and I would deal with it. The issue we have is
:11:20. > :11:24.we are not as a country consistently as good as we need to
:11:24. > :11:28.be. There are some parts of the system where the it is creeking and
:11:28. > :11:32.it needs to be better. You look at where it is not better, why is it
:11:32. > :11:36.not working? I think, to be honest it is not working as well as we
:11:36. > :11:41.want anywhere. My reason for saying that is I'm not sure that what was
:11:41. > :11:45.known about Daniel at the time in a lot of places would have triggered
:11:46. > :11:49.an urgent response to take action on his behalf. What we now know we
:11:49. > :11:52.know through the criminal trial and through drilling down on what was
:11:52. > :11:57.happening for Daniel and his family as one case, when we know that a
:11:57. > :12:01.child had died. I'm not sure how Daniel stood up from other children
:12:01. > :12:05.within that school or whatever. That's a devastating thing to say
:12:05. > :12:09.about a boy who was picking refuse out of a dustbin because he was
:12:09. > :12:12.starving. You are telling me that there are other children doing that
:12:12. > :12:15.who are not going through abuse? I'm telling you within that school,
:12:15. > :12:18.I would suspect, although I don't know, there were other children
:12:18. > :12:22.coming to school who were hungry and who didn't have all the
:12:22. > :12:25.clothing they needed. Daniel wasn't coming through a family suffering
:12:26. > :12:29.severe deprivation and poverty. There would be other children who
:12:29. > :12:34.were. As a consequence of that two things, one is he may not have
:12:34. > :12:37.stood out as much as we now think he does when the story is told at
:12:37. > :12:40.this point in time. Secondly, even if the school did see that he was
:12:40. > :12:43.in a special situation that needed urgent action, getting that urgent
:12:44. > :12:47.action taken by social services and police officers, who are already up
:12:47. > :12:50.to their neck dealing with even more urgent actions for children in
:12:50. > :12:55.immediate danger, sometimes schools can't get the response they need.
:12:55. > :12:59.Let's talk about schools, we heard one of the teachers break down
:12:59. > :13:03.while giving evidence. It is an awful thing, you saw a child reduce
:13:03. > :13:07.and reduce and reduce and you now know that child is no longer with
:13:07. > :13:10.us. What is going on at the school level at the teacher level? Why
:13:10. > :13:15.isn't there a clearer shout that goes out from the classroom? It is
:13:15. > :13:22.really difficult talking about this particular case. Let's talk more
:13:22. > :13:26.general lean? I do -- generally? I do think there are huge issues for
:13:27. > :13:31.teachers in many of the ways ray says. We did some research a couple
:13:31. > :13:35.of years ago where we asked non- social care professionals about how
:13:35. > :13:39.confident they felt in intervening in case of neglect. What was really
:13:39. > :13:42.interesting is 40% were coming back and saying they didn't know quite
:13:43. > :13:46.what to do with it. They weren't quite sure it would be escalated up
:13:46. > :13:49.sufficiently, about 44% of the teachers, very is specifically said
:13:49. > :13:53.they didn't know what to do when they were finding resistance from
:13:53. > :13:56.parents. They didn't necessarily feel they had the skills or the
:13:56. > :14:00.authority or the links with other professionals to do something about
:14:00. > :14:02.it. That is a real concern because of the huge amount of pressure now
:14:03. > :14:07.being put on teachers because of the cutbacks we are talking about.
:14:07. > :14:10.That falls in your lap in that case? Very much so, from a council
:14:10. > :14:13.perspective the key things we are seeking to do is firstly to make
:14:13. > :14:16.sure we have a balance of staff with both the quality, but the
:14:16. > :14:19.experience to pick up these issues. Secondly, at the social services
:14:19. > :14:23.end that Ray has talked about, where matters are brought up we
:14:23. > :14:26.will deal with them quickly. I have spoken to head teachers with
:14:26. > :14:30.children who haven't had breakfast coming to school, once is a concern,
:14:30. > :14:34.but if it is happening every day it is triggering inquiries. You are
:14:34. > :14:39.saying it is a general feeling happening over time. It means there
:14:39. > :14:43.is a systemic failure, one which you look to David to sort out.
:14:43. > :14:46.the teachers we spoke to that was a very striking finding. Then deal
:14:46. > :14:49.with that, this is a general impression, this is not a few
:14:49. > :14:55.teachers who are saying we didn't know what to do, this is a pevasive
:14:55. > :14:59.feeling we are hearing from Clare? It is a consistent issue brought up
:14:59. > :15:03.in a number of child protection cases and the serious cases you
:15:03. > :15:07.described. Is it the training and confidence that you are not giving
:15:07. > :15:10.to your staff? It is a combination of factors, schools are autonomous,
:15:10. > :15:13.they are largely responsible for what goes on behind closed doors.
:15:13. > :15:16.The key thing to make sure is teachers when they are trained and
:15:16. > :15:19.first coming into the classroom through their careers are able to
:15:19. > :15:23.deal with these issues when they come forward. In this case the
:15:23. > :15:26.teacher did take it further. Let's deal with it very briefly the
:15:26. > :15:31.dealing with it further, because the teachers did make a noise about
:15:31. > :15:36.this, teachers are making a noise about it, it gets lost then in some
:15:36. > :15:39.kind of Labyrinth afterwards, what needs to be done to sort that out?
:15:39. > :15:42.Let's look at the system in context, we have one of the best child
:15:42. > :15:46.protection systems in the developed world. This keeps coming up as a
:15:46. > :15:50.problem. There are a couple of things we can do to fix it. We need
:15:50. > :15:53.to firstly understand the detail. The Serious Case Review will show
:15:53. > :15:57.what went wrong and at what point. From that we need to identify the
:15:57. > :16:01.actions. You have the ear of the minister, what do you want him to
:16:01. > :16:04.do, if he's listening now, what do you want him to do right now?
:16:04. > :16:07.not sure I have the ear to the minister, politics is a difficult
:16:07. > :16:11.job. I'm concerned about the increasing difficulty that some
:16:11. > :16:14.parents are having parenting well, not malicious parents like Daniel's
:16:14. > :16:18.parents, parents are becoming more poor and destitute and just can't
:16:18. > :16:22.do what they want to do for their children. I'm concerned about the
:16:22. > :16:26.blame culture. And we have heard to from the local MP in Coventry the
:16:26. > :16:30.demand that people lose their jobs. That is not helpful, these are
:16:30. > :16:34.dedicated people doing a difficult job in distressing circumstances,
:16:34. > :16:36.we need more not less of them. To take people off the pitch when they
:16:36. > :16:40.are very experienced is not a good idea actually.
:16:40. > :16:45.Thank you very much. The stand-off continues in Cairo tonight as
:16:45. > :16:50.supporters of deposed Mohamed Morsi defy the army's order to move out
:16:50. > :16:53.of their protest camps. Since the military ousted Mr Morsi on the 3rd
:16:53. > :16:56.July, police have been rounding up his fellow leaders from the Muslim
:16:56. > :17:00.Brotherhood, and charging them with incitement to violence. Despite
:17:00. > :17:05.being voted in as Egypt's first democratically elected Government,
:17:05. > :17:14.with its hierarchy in tatters is there any way back for Egypt's
:17:14. > :17:20.Islamist party. As the heat of the Ramadan days
:17:20. > :17:23.eases, the political temperature rises at Rabaa al-Adawiya.
:17:23. > :17:27.Thousands come to demonstrate their support for the Muslim Brotherhood,
:17:28. > :17:32.and to bolster those who remain here all the time, activists who
:17:32. > :17:41.are ready to sacrifice everything. We want to die really, we want to
:17:41. > :17:46.die for our freedom. That's history, we are writing history now.
:17:46. > :17:55.Dozens have already died here, it is the fallen who are extoled at
:17:55. > :18:00.evening demonstrations. Martyrs be happy, chants the boy, and wait for
:18:00. > :18:04.us at the gates of heaven. And this sacrifice makes it even harder for
:18:05. > :18:11.the party to stomach the humiliation of being turned out of
:18:11. > :18:15.power one month ago. The Muslim Brotherhood leadership
:18:15. > :18:23.still demands the clock be turned back. Mr Morsi now is our President
:18:23. > :18:29.for his term, four years, ending after three years. But he can go to
:18:29. > :18:35.another election in another term or not. It is a matter of democracy.
:18:35. > :18:42.Democracy means respect of the institution. You cannot go to Mr
:18:42. > :18:46.Hollande now in France who is having a low score of public
:18:46. > :18:49.opinion about 25, and generals saying we want you out because you
:18:49. > :18:54.are not popular. This is not democracy at all. The Brotherhood
:18:54. > :18:57.strove for power for decades once they got it they angered many
:18:57. > :19:02.Egyptians who felt they put part interests ahead of national unity.
:19:02. > :19:08.Now their enemies abuse them of provoking violence to keep the
:19:08. > :19:10.country tottering. I know for a fact that the
:19:10. > :19:15.Government and security organisations in Egypt doesn't want
:19:15. > :19:20.to deal with it the hard way, they want to deal with it the easy way.
:19:20. > :19:24.I'm not sure the other party wants the same thing or not. I believe
:19:24. > :19:28.they want to do it the hard way. I'm a talking about the Muslim
:19:28. > :19:32.Brotherhood, to do it the hard way. Because again they want, they are
:19:32. > :19:34.very good in that by the way, they are very good at talking to the
:19:34. > :19:39.international media and the international community. They want
:19:39. > :19:42.to look in front of them as the victims, and more blood, and they
:19:42. > :19:46.are killing us and all this kind of stuff. They will not accept the
:19:46. > :19:50.easy way. I'm sure they will provoke the police in order for
:19:50. > :19:54.them, they will shoot them first, kill someone and retaliate, and
:19:54. > :19:59.then you will see more blood. That is what they want.
:19:59. > :20:04.Yesterday's Government pledged to clear the camp wasn't the first.
:20:04. > :20:08.Mornings here are a time for quiet and reflection. The Ramadan fast
:20:08. > :20:16.prohibits eating and drinking during daylight. Many spend the
:20:16. > :20:22.night up and sleep during the morning. Not Hossein Mousavi, he's
:20:22. > :20:27.29, well educated -- Ali, he is 29, well educated and a father. He
:20:27. > :20:30.feels the stakes couldn't be higher. We will lose our life, we know that,
:20:30. > :20:34.we have no problem with that, what we are looking for is very
:20:34. > :20:38.expensive, you know, it is our freedom, our President, our country,
:20:38. > :20:42.our democracy. It is very, very expensive. Our life doesn't mean
:20:42. > :20:47.for that. We are looking for a good life for our children and our sons.
:20:47. > :20:52.But this isn't just about a battle of wills, it is also a contest of
:20:52. > :20:57.nerve and guile. There are limits on both sides. From a purely
:20:57. > :21:01.military point of view this area is pretty indefensible, you have got
:21:01. > :21:05.broad avenues of approach, from the west, and off to the north, where
:21:05. > :21:09.there are substantial military forces just waiting. There are also
:21:09. > :21:14.military installations inside this area controlled by the brotherhood
:21:14. > :21:19.that might allow them a pretext to come in. But of course coming in
:21:19. > :21:23.here in force could cause a huge loss of life, and the symbolic
:21:23. > :21:28.importance of doing something that would defile this mosque couldn't
:21:28. > :21:34.be underestimated too. So it is a thorny dilemma for the country's
:21:34. > :21:38.military rulers. And while the authorities ponder just how to end
:21:38. > :21:43.this stalemate soldiers stationed around the mosque keep watch on the
:21:44. > :21:53.Cummings and goings. Many local people would rather it
:21:53. > :22:00.was all over. Not far away this woman watched the Muslim
:22:00. > :22:10.Brotherhood protests with disgust. We heard that some of the Muslim
:22:10. > :22:10.
:22:10. > :22:13.Brotherhood are coming with stuff to have violence. Like many
:22:13. > :22:21.liberal-minded Egyptians, she welcomed the overthrow of President
:22:21. > :22:24.Morsi, and wants the Brotherhood removed but without violence if
:22:24. > :22:29.possible. I hope that they will work it out and know that Morsi
:22:29. > :22:36.will never come back. And they are part of this society and this
:22:36. > :22:46.country and they have and we keep telling them one day after another
:22:46. > :22:54.for the young men, from the Muslim Brotherhood, to go home. There is
:22:54. > :22:59.also cold comfort for the Brotherhood away from urban Cairo.
:22:59. > :23:03.Manzura is a Nile delta town where Islamic parties have done well
:23:03. > :23:12.electorally. But even here many support the general who toppled the
:23:12. > :23:16.President, and the Brotherhood's rival the Salafist party stand to
:23:16. > :23:19.benefit in elections. We went to speak to their national spokesman
:23:19. > :23:24.who explained the party's position in terms of President Morsi's
:23:24. > :23:29.catalogue of errors. TRANSLATION: We realiseded if Morsi
:23:29. > :23:34.were to continue in power it would be a problem. How could he govern
:23:34. > :23:40.under these circumstances? So we advised the President ahead of June
:23:40. > :23:44.30th. We suggested some political solutions for the situation we had
:23:44. > :23:50.recognised the dangers of division. We suggested an initiative to
:23:50. > :23:56.change the Government and the head of the Supreme Court. But no-one
:23:56. > :24:00.took our initiative seriously. the Brotherhood finds itself
:24:00. > :24:04.asailed from both sides of the political spectrum. It is one thing
:24:04. > :24:09.for the protesters to promise a fight to the death, but the numbers
:24:09. > :24:15.turning up here are down. As the sun dipped and people ended their
:24:15. > :24:19.day's Ramadan fast, some told us off camera Morsi's fate is less
:24:19. > :24:23.important than political survival. Even their spokesman, while
:24:23. > :24:28.demanding the deposed President's return, wouldn't close the door on
:24:28. > :24:35.taking part in elections later this year. Nobody can go to the ballot
:24:35. > :24:42.under these circumstances. No security, the economy is destroyed,
:24:42. > :24:48.tourism is now no tourists and the people are not convinced at all by
:24:48. > :24:54.this civilian Government. That sound like a boycott? Not boycott,
:24:55. > :24:59.we are looking to restore democracy, that means respect of the choices
:24:59. > :25:04.of the people, not cancelling it by tanks. The military says it wants
:25:04. > :25:08.to see the Muslim Brotherhood running in elections, but that
:25:08. > :25:12."will they won't they"? Is part of a bigger negotiation about
:25:12. > :25:17.restoring democracy. Whether these people are shifted from here by
:25:17. > :25:20.violence or apathy, the question will remain as to whether the
:25:20. > :25:24.Muslim Brotherhood's brand of politics can be reconciled with
:25:24. > :25:31.democracy on the terms that the Egyptian military will allow it.
:25:31. > :25:35.All sorts of issues from the future freedom of ex-President Morsi, to
:25:35. > :25:39.the possible boycott of elections by the Brotherhood, will be bar
:25:39. > :25:44.againing chips in trying to reconcile the apparently
:25:44. > :25:48.irreconcilable. Going in now might appeal to some
:25:48. > :25:53.hardline generals, but few think they can abolish the Muslim
:25:53. > :25:57.Brotherhood in what it stands for. And here too their fast ended, the
:25:57. > :26:03.party's supporters have a profound faith that their political struggle
:26:03. > :26:09.must go on. That will be a bit of a squeeze on
:26:09. > :26:14.the benches, as 30 new peers prepare to join the 755 active
:26:14. > :26:18.members already in the House of Lords. Among those elevated in
:26:18. > :26:24.today's announcement, Doreen Lawrence, mother of the murdered
:26:24. > :26:28.teenager, Stephen Lawrence, Anthony Bamford, hid of the JCB form. And
:26:28. > :26:33.Brian Paddick, former Chief Constable. There were a couple of
:26:33. > :26:38.names that viewers of Newsnight might be, common as muck David
:26:38. > :26:41.Grossman reports. They are all with us now, Olly Grender the woman who
:26:41. > :26:46.plugged Vince Cable into the grid, and the sage of Pinner, Danny
:26:46. > :26:51.Finkelstein. Now we know the quickest way to a seat in the Lords
:26:51. > :26:57.is via a seat on the no less prestigious Newsnight panel,
:26:57. > :27:00.delivering sage words to the British public since 2007. Olly
:27:00. > :27:03.Grender for the Liberal Democrats and Danny Finkelstein for the
:27:03. > :27:08.Conservatives created live peers today. I went to talk to them to
:27:08. > :27:13.talk about their new role. Unfortunately we had transfor the
:27:13. > :27:18.issues. I'm really sorry, I'm here now. Danny's cab went not to the
:27:18. > :27:23.House of Lords but Lord's. I can't see you, where are you? Stay where
:27:23. > :27:27.you are and I will come and find you. I will come and find you! When
:27:27. > :27:30.I did eventually find Danny it was in an unfamiliar position,
:27:30. > :27:35.somewhere to the right of the members' enclosure and a strange
:27:35. > :27:39.place for a political panellist sitting on the fence. The Newsnight
:27:39. > :27:43.panel is what won it, don't you think. Actually funnily enough the
:27:43. > :27:47.decision to go on to the Newsnight panel and to talk about having been
:27:47. > :27:51.an official for the Conservative Party and still be interested in
:27:51. > :27:54.that part of the work that I have done in the past did play a role
:27:54. > :27:58.funnily enough. Because people probably saw me doing some of that
:27:58. > :28:01.sort of strategic thinking, maybe thought I could play a role in the
:28:01. > :28:05.House of Lords as well, doing something up there. It is not just
:28:05. > :28:09.us making a joke of it. You think it might have actually had
:28:09. > :28:13.something to do with it? It is mainly you making a joke of it.
:28:13. > :28:16.is a less succinct world, a let cut and thrust world than perhaps the
:28:16. > :28:20.Newsnight panel? Although I think actually what we were trying to do
:28:20. > :28:24.on the Newsnight panel, what we always try to do is not to make
:28:24. > :28:27.partisan points but try to use our political experience to shed light
:28:27. > :28:32.on what is happening in politics. I never like to go on the Newsnight
:28:32. > :28:35.panel and make a pro-Tory point, it is very boring and you have a lot
:28:35. > :28:38.of politician on to do that. Exactly the same case as with the
:28:38. > :28:44.House of Lords. The approach we use on the Newsnight panel Olly also
:28:44. > :28:47.uses, I hope we will use that in the House of Lords. We come from a
:28:47. > :28:52.political background. I'm a centre right person, I want the
:28:52. > :28:56.Conservative programmes to be put into effect broadly, but I'm
:28:56. > :28:59.capable of a degree of independence, that is what the House of Lords
:28:59. > :29:02.should be about. It is still technically possible to become a
:29:02. > :29:04.peer without being on the Newsnight panel, as proved today by new
:29:04. > :29:09.Conservative Lords Sir Anthony Bamford, chairman and managing
:29:09. > :29:14.director of JCB, and Oliver Wendell Holmes, former Paralympic swimmer.
:29:14. > :29:17.For Labour by Doreen Lawrence, the mother of Stephen Lawrence, and
:29:18. > :29:20.Charles Allen of the Olympic organising committee. For the
:29:20. > :29:24.Liberal Democrats Brian Paddick, former Deputy Assistant
:29:24. > :29:30.Commissioner in the Met and candidate for London, and James
:29:30. > :29:35.Palumbo chairman of the Ministry of Sound group, and Jenny Jones,
:29:35. > :29:41.former mayoral candidate. What about the other half of the
:29:41. > :29:46.ennobled panel, we never found out where Olly's cab had taken her, but
:29:46. > :29:52.we did reach her on the phone. Most of this is because of your work on
:29:52. > :29:56.Newsnight? I put it all down to for six years occasionally sitting on a
:29:56. > :30:00.sofa on Newsnight being asked for my opinion on politics. I'm sure
:30:00. > :30:03.you would agree with that. Now you are both in the Lords will you
:30:03. > :30:06.still talk to Danny? I have never stopped talking to Danny
:30:06. > :30:13.Finkelstein. As you know we here at Newsnight thrive on political
:30:13. > :30:17.conflict, it is our job to mix it up a bit? I don't know, I have
:30:17. > :30:24.spoken to Olly, she says now she's in the House of Lords and you are,
:30:24. > :30:27.she can't really talk to you any more? As I said before I thought
:30:27. > :30:31.she mainly interrupted me with the silly points while I was making
:30:31. > :30:35.good ones, there will be no difference. Or he could do the
:30:35. > :30:39.reverse but there is a sense at the moment he's sitting on the fence.
:30:39. > :30:42.It is also a rough period. ultimately turned out...Meanwhile
:30:42. > :30:47.As word went around Westminster that two of our panel had gone on
:30:47. > :30:50.to the Other Place, our phone went mad with would-be replacements.
:30:50. > :30:55.Hello Newsnight? Afterall it is a far cheaper route to the Lords than
:30:55. > :30:58.a big political donation and the Newsnight Green Room as twiglets.
:30:58. > :31:04.We are not looking at anyone for the moment for the panel, we will
:31:04. > :31:08.let you know. Thanks for calling, goodbye. It has no twiglets, I
:31:08. > :31:14.checked. Let's discuss what the Newsnight and non-Newsnight peers
:31:15. > :31:20.will be getting up to. I'm joined from he had butter ra from one of
:31:20. > :31:25.the new Lib Dem peers, and the chief executive of the Electoral
:31:25. > :31:30.Reform Society. Shall we start with you Jeremy Purvis, 784 peers in the
:31:30. > :31:33.House. Can they cope without you? Without me, I'm sure they can. I
:31:33. > :31:37.don't claim that I'm going to be bringing anything particularly
:31:37. > :31:41.strong to it. I have not been on your Newsnight panel, I have been
:31:41. > :31:46.on Newsnight Scotland on many occasion, I'm not sure if that has
:31:46. > :31:49.been an addition to my CV that has helped. I hope to bring a little
:31:49. > :31:54.bit of perhaps more representation from the nations into the House of
:31:54. > :31:58.Lords, I can't claim that I'm bringing any more democrat ic
:31:58. > :32:02.legitimacy for any time I served as a member of the Scottish Parliament
:32:02. > :32:04.for two terms. I hope to make a contribution to make the House of
:32:05. > :32:11.Lords more representative for the nation, including those from
:32:11. > :32:15.Scotland. In all seriousness though, 784, nowhere to sit, according to
:32:15. > :32:20.David Steel. This place is just overstuffed, you are not going to
:32:20. > :32:23.be able to be heard, let alone anything else? My job is to make
:32:23. > :32:27.sure I am heard. I will be approaching this as a serious job.
:32:27. > :32:31.It will be my main job absolutely. I have no other independent source
:32:31. > :32:35.of income. What do you want to do there, I want to know what will you
:32:35. > :32:39.do when you get in there? One of the parts of discussions I had with
:32:39. > :32:42.Nick Clegg when he asked me to do this, and the leader of the
:32:43. > :32:47.Scottish Liberal Democrats, is to may a part in making sure that the
:32:47. > :32:53.-- play a part that the reform of the House of Lords and generally
:32:53. > :32:59.for the UK to play a part in the referendum in Scotland. Up until
:32:59. > :33:02.last year I led a cross-party group which was arguing for reform to the
:33:02. > :33:05.UK, strengthening the Scottish Parliament, making it more
:33:05. > :33:09.accountable and a positive alternative to independence. That
:33:09. > :33:12.is a platform in the Lords that I'm able to use, I think it might be
:33:12. > :33:17.slightly different than some of the other peers for the interests they
:33:17. > :33:23.have. I will be broadening that. have heard a few Lib Dem peers to
:33:23. > :33:28.say they are going in to reform the place, one sniff and they are
:33:28. > :33:31.forgetting all of that and it is a comfy place? I was keen on
:33:31. > :33:36.reforming Scottish Parliament. Being a member of the House of
:33:36. > :33:40.Lords was not part of any of my life game plan. I'm 30 years
:33:40. > :33:43.younger than the average age of the peers. I was born and brought up in
:33:43. > :33:48.a council house, my dad was an ambulance driver and my mum worked
:33:49. > :33:54.in a shop. I won't make myself comfortable, this is a proper job
:33:54. > :33:58.and I will do it to the best of my ability. It is a whiff of new blood,
:33:58. > :34:02.300 years younger than the people sitting in there. That is a God
:34:02. > :34:05.thing, right? The problem with the new appointments is they
:34:05. > :34:09.demonstrate the point with democraticing will get macy. The
:34:09. > :34:14.House of Lords is bursting at the scenes, you talked about having
:34:14. > :34:18.somewhere comfy to sit. There are 400 places to sit, there are 800
:34:18. > :34:21.peers. The electoral research shows there will be 1,000 peers to come
:34:22. > :34:28.and 2,000 peers after the next general election. What do you want
:34:28. > :34:32.to do? We are the second-largest chamber in the world after China.
:34:32. > :34:35.We have to put a stop to it t the party leaders have to get around a
:34:35. > :34:38.table and put their heads together. We need a smaller more efficient
:34:38. > :34:42.House of Lords. We strongly believe it should be elected by the people.
:34:42. > :34:45.That is a greyer version for the House of Commons, you are asking
:34:45. > :34:49.for people to get elevated to a higher house and it looks the same?
:34:49. > :34:53.It is a fantasy at the moment that we have independence and expertise
:34:54. > :34:57.in large quantities in the House of Lords. Most of the people in the
:34:57. > :35:01.House of Lords are either party political people, a lot of them are
:35:01. > :35:04.ex-politicians or party donor, we need to open up our politics from
:35:04. > :35:09.people of all walks of life and talent, the most important thing we
:35:09. > :35:12.have to do is sort out this super- sized second chamber which makes us
:35:12. > :35:17.a laughing stock around the world. The problem is when you ask people,
:35:17. > :35:20.I'm looking at the latest YouGov poll on reform from the House of
:35:20. > :35:25.Lords, from June, only 18% of people could be bothered about this.
:35:25. > :35:28.Most thought it is a bit of a smoke screen and diverts you from more
:35:28. > :35:31.important matters? You are absolutely right to say it is never
:35:31. > :35:35.going to be stop of voters' shopping lists, but over half and
:35:35. > :35:39.up to three quarter of people when asked say we want to be able to
:35:39. > :35:43.elect our law makers. Let's go back to you Jeremy. We have been doing a
:35:43. > :35:47.few sums. If the House of Lords of open 24 hours a day, and all the
:35:47. > :35:54.peers spoke one after the other, without any toilet break, no
:35:54. > :35:57.popping out for sandwiches, nothing. You would get two minutes to speak.
:35:57. > :36:04.This is ludicrous, if you want to reform something you don't become
:36:04. > :36:08.part of the establishment do you? As an MSPI I had timed stpeechs of
:36:08. > :36:11.three and four minutes, I don't think it is necessarily the case
:36:11. > :36:14.that very long speeches are always very good. Your point is a serious
:36:14. > :36:18.one, I think that certainly as far as reform, it can be in two stages
:36:18. > :36:21.of making sure it is a reduced chamber and it is more efficient as
:36:21. > :36:25.a chamber. That is part of the agenda where I think there is
:36:25. > :36:29.growing consensus of having effectively retirement for that.
:36:29. > :36:35.That would reduce the scale drammatically. I want it to be
:36:35. > :36:40.reformed, I don't want it to be a version of the House of Commons, I
:36:40. > :36:44.want it to be representative, democratically legitimate but
:36:44. > :36:49.representative of the nations and rojs across the UK. A more --
:36:49. > :36:52.regions across the UK. A more federal chamber. Do you have a time
:36:52. > :36:58.limit, you will say I'm going to be here for five years f I can't
:36:58. > :37:02.reform I'm out of here, I can't take the �300 day, that's it?
:37:02. > :37:05.is an interesting angle and what I would like to argue the case is the
:37:05. > :37:09.referendum in Scotland and the lively debate that is happening in
:37:09. > :37:13.Wales at the moment should be a way of bringing this debate back to the
:37:13. > :37:19.table. It not simply about electing a set of politicians in the second
:37:19. > :37:23.chamber of which the public, as you have right low said has very
:37:23. > :37:27.limited interest -- rightly said has very limited interest in it.
:37:27. > :37:36.But parts of England are hungry for a reformed Westminster and the
:37:36. > :37:42.institutions of the UK. It sound as if you are there for the long haul.
:37:42. > :37:49.Jeremy, Lord Purvis, thank you very much indeed. My thanks also to
:37:50. > :37:53.Katie Ghosh. Elated Iranians took to the streets shouting "bye bye
:37:53. > :37:57.Ahmed" after the news in the presidential election broke. It
:37:57. > :38:07.certainly didn't seem as if anyone was too bad to see Mahmoud
:38:07. > :38:07.
:38:07. > :38:10.Ahmadinejad pass into retirement. With food inflation at 20% and
:38:10. > :38:15.sanctions on oil exports of the country costing the country more
:38:15. > :38:19.than half of its source of income. How will the new ruler keep the
:38:19. > :38:23.people's spirits up. We will hear from Tehran from one of the
:38:23. > :38:33.President's closest aides in a moment. Who is the man who is about
:38:33. > :38:36.
:38:36. > :38:40.to take power? He is the face that people hope is the acceptable face
:38:40. > :38:48.of Iran. He will take office at the weekend, eight years of Mahmoud
:38:48. > :38:52.Ahmadinejad's rule is coming to a close. The jubilation when the
:38:52. > :39:02.streets when he won the elections last month was palpable for all to
:39:02. > :39:02.
:39:02. > :39:05.see. A far cry from images of the last elections in 2009, when
:39:05. > :39:09.violence and bloodshed hit the country, after protestors clashed
:39:09. > :39:19.with Government forces over disputed results when Ahmadinejad
:39:19. > :39:21.
:39:21. > :39:27.claimed to have won. But despite the reel operations he faces a
:39:27. > :39:37.herculean task ahead of him, solve the nuclear problem and sanctions.
:39:37. > :39:41.Plus there is the on going tensions with neighbours. There is
:39:41. > :39:48.expectations for a move away from the hardline stance from the past.
:39:48. > :39:52.That didn't stop him giving the west some advice. TRANSLATION:
:39:52. > :39:55.time of sanctions is passed, even the west knows that they are facing
:39:56. > :40:01.problems and the sanctions are not in their interest either.
:40:01. > :40:04.America and Israel are still wary of Iran's nuclear capablities. He
:40:04. > :40:09.might be reassuring the public about a transparent programme, but
:40:09. > :40:13.ultimately it is the country's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali
:40:13. > :40:17.Khamenei, a staunch conservative who decides on these matters. But
:40:17. > :40:24.he also presides over a crippled economy, inflation is soaring at
:40:24. > :40:29.over 40%, the highest in the region, with many ordinary Iranians
:40:29. > :40:32.suffering and hungry, not just for food but for reform. One of the
:40:32. > :40:36.President's closest allies will be Dr Mohammad Nahavandian, an
:40:36. > :40:41.economist who is currently in charge of the commerce chambers, he
:40:41. > :40:45.will be steering the President through the difficult months ahead.
:40:45. > :40:51.A little earlier I spoke to Mohammad Nahavandian, and I asked
:40:51. > :41:01.him what could be expected in this new President's Iran? Everybody is
:41:01. > :41:03.
:41:03. > :41:10.hopeful that we will have a more harmonised economy, more harmonised
:41:10. > :41:17.Government and more participation by people in the state of the
:41:17. > :41:21.country in economic issues and political issues as well.
:41:21. > :41:26.people are asking for two very difficult things, they are asking
:41:26. > :41:33.him to fix a failing economy, they are asking him to make sure that
:41:33. > :41:41.sanctions are loosened. How is he going to start trying to do that?
:41:41. > :41:51.There are some problems with some countries which have accumulated
:41:51. > :41:53.
:41:53. > :42:00.through time, but the direction for mutual trust and mutual confidence
:42:00. > :42:09.is accepted by people and in check issues we are seeing a lot of
:42:09. > :42:15.interest being expressed by private sector, domestic and foreign to r
:42:15. > :42:19.for having investments in -- and foreign for having investments in
:42:19. > :42:22.many parts of the Iranian economy. You talk about problems that have
:42:22. > :42:27.built up over time with certain countries. Let's talk about two of
:42:28. > :42:35.those countries, and when news reached Benjamin Netanyahu about
:42:35. > :42:39.the election of Mr Rouhani, and he said this is a man who called
:42:39. > :42:43.Ahmadinejad a wolf in wolf's clothe, he is a wolf in sheep's clothe, he
:42:43. > :42:48.smiles but builds a bomb. Does that mean relations with Israel will be
:42:48. > :42:58.as bad as they ever have been with your new leader? That kind of
:42:58. > :42:59.
:42:59. > :43:06.wording is not going to help. To help solving any problems. This is
:43:06. > :43:16.a new opportunity for the world, for the west, for Iran as well to
:43:16. > :43:16.
:43:17. > :43:23.put the issues that we have differences of opinion in a new
:43:23. > :43:29.perspective and find a kind of solution which is win-win. Iran is
:43:29. > :43:36.a country with a great deal of influence in the region, what do
:43:36. > :43:46.you see in President Assad of Syria that the rest of the world cannot?
:43:46. > :43:52.
:43:52. > :44:01.When foreign interests come into play and allow extremist factors
:44:01. > :44:08.play a role, violence can prevent democracy from giving the people
:44:08. > :44:18.the right of self-rule. Will Iran row back from its nuclear ambition?
:44:18. > :44:25.Nuclear technology is a technology that every nation has to have its
:44:25. > :44:28.right for peaceful use. Iran has always plain taind that the
:44:28. > :44:38.intention here has -- maintained that the intention has been only
:44:38. > :44:43.for peaceful uses, not only taking care and following the
:44:43. > :44:52.international obligations, but also from religious points of view, Iran
:44:52. > :45:00.has been of the opinion that nuclear arms are not allowed
:45:00. > :45:09.according to Islamic law. I think those misunderstandings can go away
:45:09. > :45:19.if all sides take a new approach in negotiations. Thank you very much
:45:19. > :45:47.
:45:47. > :45:51.for being with us. Morning papers:
:45:51. > :46:01.That is all that we have time for. I will be here to do it all over
:46:01. > :46:25.
:46:25. > :46:28.again tomorrow night, until then good night. Whilst today was a day
:46:28. > :46:31.of contrast with rain in the north and heat in the south-east, things
:46:31. > :46:34.will be a little more straight forward tomorrow, it looks as
:46:34. > :46:37.though it will be sunny spells and scattered showers. Those showers
:46:37. > :46:41.perhaps thundery in the central and eastern areas first thing in the
:46:41. > :46:43.morning. By the middle of the afternoon it will be a better
:46:43. > :46:46.afternoon in Northern Ireland and Scotland, particularly in
:46:46. > :46:50.comparison to today. There will be a few showers, but inbetween some
:46:50. > :46:54.lovely sunny spells. It will feel quite pleasant. Perhaps sheltered
:46:54. > :46:57.and eastern areas staying dry all day. Highest values for 22 degrees.
:46:57. > :47:01.A few showers across northern England. There will be decent
:47:01. > :47:05.breaks in the cloud and a pleasant feel. A little fresher than today,
:47:05. > :47:09.that may well be welcome news. We will still got the heat into East
:47:09. > :47:12.Anglia and still humidity with a few showers here to come. A little
:47:12. > :47:15.more cloud with sharper showers into the south west and parts of
:47:15. > :47:19.Wales. But, as the nature of showers you may well escape them
:47:19. > :47:22.all together and keep the sunshine and with a fresher feel it will
:47:23. > :47:28.feel more pleasant. As we move towards Friday and into the weekend,
:47:28. > :47:32.the risk of showers increases and the fresher scenario stays with us.
:47:32. > :47:38.London may well stay dry, there will be more sunshine around on