:00:16. > :00:18.Jim Messina led Barack Obama back to the White House, he's a lifelong
:00:18. > :00:22.Democrat. Ladies and gentlemen the re-elected President of the United
:00:22. > :00:28.States. And now he's coming here to work for David Cameron. If a man
:00:28. > :00:32.like this is willing to work for Team Cameron, what does that say
:00:32. > :00:37.about Team Miliband, Allegra broke the story. This is shaping up to be
:00:37. > :00:44.the longest campaign in British electoral history, but is only one
:00:44. > :00:52.side preparing. And what links Jane Austen with an American Pop Idol.
:00:52. > :00:57.The answer Kelly Clarkson, who has bought Jane's ring at auction, she
:00:57. > :01:02.can't take it out of the country. Is it our pride or prejudice. And
:01:02. > :01:08.Shimon Peres, the man with the strange power to turn Tony Blair
:01:08. > :01:15.into Maureen Lipman. It's his birthday, he's 90, now he's
:01:15. > :01:25.President, what comes next? After a lifetime fighting for Zionism, we
:01:25. > :01:29.ask the Israeli president about the odds of peace in his time? British
:01:29. > :01:33.politics seems to be turning slowly into the Premier League, dominated
:01:33. > :01:38.by expensive foreign stars. We can reveal that Barack Obama's campaign
:01:38. > :01:43.manager, Jim Messina, is the latest high-profile signing. With the long
:01:43. > :01:48.and gruelling election campaign on the way the Lib Dems are being led
:01:48. > :01:52.by a South Africa, the Tories from an Australian with help from his
:01:52. > :02:01.new American friend. With Labour? By no-one at the moment. Our
:02:01. > :02:05.political editor got the story. First time round was one thing, but
:02:05. > :02:12.getting re-elected the second time round was quite something again.
:02:12. > :02:14.One man devoted his every waking hour to that task, this man, at the
:02:14. > :02:18.microphone. Ladies and gentlemen the re-elected President of the
:02:18. > :02:23.United States Barack Obama. The man that got President Obama re-elected
:02:23. > :02:30.is about to try to do the same for David Cameron. Newsnight can reveal
:02:30. > :02:33.that President Obama's campaign manager is now joining the
:02:33. > :02:37.Conservatives' 2015 general election team. Jim Messina has an
:02:37. > :02:43.impressive CV and boasts never having lost an election. But it is
:02:43. > :02:47.simpler than that, he got the most powerful man in the world re-
:02:47. > :02:51.elected and David Cameron wants a piece of that. Jim Messina is a
:02:51. > :02:55.lifelong Democrat, a political campaigner while at university, by
:02:55. > :02:58.2008 he had been made deputy Chief of Staff in President Obama's White
:02:58. > :03:04.House. He was described as the most powerful man you have never heard
:03:04. > :03:07.of. But it is campaigning not governing that excites Messina. In
:03:07. > :03:13.2011 President Obama asked Messina to leave the White House in order
:03:13. > :03:18.to get the whole team back in the election of 2012. Messina decamped
:03:18. > :03:21.to Chicago. I wanted to take a minute...The Re-election strategy
:03:21. > :03:25.involved with communicating with vast numbers of activists through
:03:25. > :03:29.regular video memos like this one. Hi everyone, it is Jim Messina, the
:03:29. > :03:32.President's campaign manager. I wanted to spend a minute talking to
:03:32. > :03:37.you about what we are building on the ground and give you a behind
:03:37. > :03:42.the scenes look at the maps. Messina of the architect of that
:03:42. > :03:46.effort. What he did was he and the rest of the Obama team built one of
:03:46. > :03:50.the most robust turnout operations in the history of presidential
:03:50. > :03:54.politics. Essentially they went out and found anyone who was even
:03:54. > :03:59.remotely inclined to support him through e-mails and social media
:03:59. > :04:09.and just actually canvasing on the ground and communities throughout
:04:09. > :04:22.
:04:22. > :04:29.the country. They were able to I want you to have a quick update.
:04:29. > :04:37.That is one part of the Messina mix, part-geek, will you about part-
:04:37. > :04:41.political assassin. Look at this attack ad. # Oh beautiful # Forever
:04:41. > :04:50.waves of grey. Messina told President Obama that the 2012
:04:51. > :04:53.election would not resemble the hopey-changey thing of 2008.
:04:53. > :04:58.America # America This time they had to get
:04:58. > :05:03.their hands dirty. There is a pap port between the
:05:03. > :05:08.Tories and the Democrats. David Cameron flew to the states in 2012,
:05:08. > :05:12.attending this basketball match in the swing seat of Ohio, it was
:05:12. > :05:16.basically an endorsement trip. America is also one of the very few
:05:16. > :05:26.countries that has re-elected its Government since the economic
:05:26. > :05:33.
:05:33. > :05:38.crisis. This is something the Replicate. Tonight Tories are
:05:38. > :05:42.insisting Messina reports to campaign strategy with Lynton
:05:42. > :05:46.Crosby, sending advice to him from America. Cross Over controls the
:05:46. > :05:52.message, Messina the technique. This division of labour may not
:05:52. > :05:56.last, but right now the pressure is on the opposition. This evening one
:05:56. > :06:00.of my Labour sources said the party had been spooked by the appointment
:06:01. > :06:04.of Jim Messina. That their leader has been caught woefully short.
:06:04. > :06:08.Where as David Cameron has a multitude of general election
:06:08. > :06:13.advisers hailing from all sides of the political spectrum, Ed Miliband
:06:13. > :06:17.currently has none. I'm going to bring Jim Messina back up. Punching
:06:17. > :06:23.home how critical hard facts are to a successful campaign, Messina is
:06:23. > :06:29.fond of saying "we have the math, they have the myth". Now the Tory
:06:29. > :06:35.Party has both. A man with mythical status who loves his maths. Allegra
:06:35. > :06:38.is here now. Is this really a game- changer? It has sent shockwaves
:06:38. > :06:42.through Westminster, even though Westminster is actually in exodus
:06:42. > :06:45.in different parts of the world on holiday. I actually had within
:06:45. > :06:50.minutes of our story breaking somebody contact me from their
:06:50. > :06:54.poolside on holiday to vent. A Labour source saying this is
:06:54. > :06:58.outrageous, we have no campaign manager, where as they basically
:06:58. > :07:04.have two or maybe more however you count them. And since Tom Watson
:07:04. > :07:08.resigned from his role a few months back this has been an obviously
:07:08. > :07:11.vacant role that has not been filled. There is real fury in
:07:11. > :07:14.Labour ranks. Even amongst loyalists to Ed Miliband, people
:07:14. > :07:19.have close to him, they do acknowledge that Messina's skills
:07:19. > :07:23.are really, really rather awesome and that they haven't yet got
:07:23. > :07:33.anybody yet to fill that role. can talk further about this. We are
:07:33. > :07:36.joined from New York by Ben Smith the Editor in Chief of Skup --
:07:36. > :07:41.buzzfeed.com, and here in the studio with Dan Hodges who writes
:07:41. > :07:47.for the Telegraph and Statesman. Can I start with you Ben, there is
:07:47. > :07:52.quite a bit of hype around this man, does he live up to it? He's
:07:52. > :07:56.American and political operative. Not from the high-end Washington
:07:56. > :08:01.grand strategy but really from rural Montana where he came up
:08:01. > :08:05.doing hard-fought knife-night local races. He got in trouble for
:08:05. > :08:10.running essentially anti-gay ed ands against a Democratic rival out
:08:10. > :08:14.there. He was not the ideas or message of the Obama operation, he
:08:14. > :08:18.was the guy who managed the campaign in 2008 behind the scenes.
:08:18. > :08:23.In 2012 he took over and ran the details of an incredibly
:08:23. > :08:29.sophisticated campaign. He put a lot of faith in big data, not so
:08:29. > :08:35.much in communicating on the Internet but using the data to
:08:35. > :08:41.understand who the voters were. There is a campaign for labour
:08:41. > :08:45.writing to Obama about how unhappy they are of him going to work for
:08:45. > :08:50.the Tories. Would he have done this with President Obama's permission?
:08:50. > :08:54.There is no doubt. That is hugely significant? It is, I think what's
:08:54. > :09:01.concerning the Labour people is there is now a real sense of a sort
:09:01. > :09:04.of feeling of men against boys as we enter the election running. The
:09:04. > :09:07.significant thing about Messina's appointment which sits alongside
:09:08. > :09:13.the appointment of Lynton Crosby. Is what you see from the Tory side
:09:13. > :09:17.is the Tories building a campaign team around senior experienced
:09:17. > :09:20.campaign political strategists. Now Labour has been looking to beef up
:09:20. > :09:24.its communications operation, but at the moment it is looking to
:09:24. > :09:27.expand its press team. I think there is a real concern that Labour
:09:27. > :09:31.has actually quite good press operations in relation to the
:09:31. > :09:34.Tories but it doesn't have anyone to manage the grand strategy. That
:09:34. > :09:38.is concerning people on the Labour side. It is also the tardiness of
:09:38. > :09:42.them realising that there is an election in 2015, that seems to
:09:42. > :09:45.have shocked a lot of people. The Tories are way ahead, they are
:09:45. > :09:48.starting now. When will Labour get into gear on this? That is the
:09:48. > :09:51.question, we have certainly seen from the start of the year, the
:09:51. > :09:56.year started with a lot of people effectively writing off the Tories,
:09:56. > :10:01.as the years has gone on, since Lynton Crosby has come on board, we
:10:01. > :10:06.have seen the Tories nailing down issue after issue after issue, from
:10:06. > :10:09.the economy to welfare. We have seen Labour's double-digit poll
:10:09. > :10:14.lead narrowing, and people on the Labour side are questioning whether
:10:14. > :10:19.Labour will be in the game in a year or 18 months time.
:10:19. > :10:24.mentioned Ben that his is this geeky magic, he likes big data and
:10:24. > :10:28.big bucks. Let's not forget how much they spent on their campaign.
:10:28. > :10:35.We neither have that kind of money in our campaigns or that sea of
:10:35. > :10:38.data he likes to mine so much. How much use will he be? I think lot of
:10:38. > :10:43.the data is available on Facebook in commercial databases in all the
:10:43. > :10:47.places they looked in, with the Obama campaign building early. It
:10:47. > :10:51.is hard to see how the British operation could afford the tens of
:10:51. > :10:55.millions of dollars that Obama spent over the course of a couple
:10:55. > :11:01.of years putting together a database of voters and activating
:11:01. > :11:04.them. That is a real difference. Democrats care a fig whether one of
:11:04. > :11:08.their shining stars is coming over here to work for the Conservatives?
:11:08. > :11:12.I don't think there are many voters turning on Obama because of who he
:11:12. > :11:16.supports. Part of his appeal has been generational, that is a link
:11:16. > :11:19.to Cameron, that he's a new generation figure. It is
:11:19. > :11:25.interesting that people can be spooked so quickly by the mention
:11:25. > :11:33.of this name. Let's look at some of the examples, David Axlrod he was
:11:33. > :11:38.Bill Clinton's adviser, he went to work for Mario Monti and he limped
:11:38. > :11:43.in fourth position, it is not the magic wand? It is not, all the
:11:43. > :11:47.political parties are chasing the Holy Grail of the Obama-style
:11:47. > :11:53.campaign, it is difficult to run that without Obama. Also, although
:11:53. > :11:57.this has sent shockwaves through the dispersed Westminster
:11:57. > :12:00.establishment as Allegra said, there is a danger to overstate this.
:12:01. > :12:05.Political campaigns at the end of the day are won by the principals
:12:05. > :12:08.rather than the advisers. People always say where would Tony Blair
:12:08. > :12:11.have been without Alastair Campbell or Peter Mandelson. But the truth
:12:11. > :12:16.is where would Peter Mandelson and Alastair Campbell be without Tony
:12:16. > :12:19.Blair. The problem for Labour's perspective if you stand Cameron
:12:19. > :12:26.against Ed Miliband at the moment, that is not reassuring many people
:12:26. > :12:29.on the Labour side either. To you Ben Smith, how will he work with
:12:29. > :12:37.another silverback, another alpha male in the shape of Lynton Crosby.
:12:37. > :12:42.He has worked with significant figures in America, I'm thinking of
:12:42. > :12:49.Rahm Emmanuel, zees he work well with people with sharp elbows?
:12:49. > :12:55.Messina has always been the mechanic or deputy to these
:12:55. > :12:58.strategists who are close to the principal. David Axlrod was
:12:58. > :13:03.communicating with Obama and setting the strategy, and Messina
:13:03. > :13:07.was executing it, that was his role. Thank you very much indeed. She
:13:07. > :13:11.liked it, she paid for it, but she can't have it. Not if the British
:13:11. > :13:16.Government has its way any way. A row is brewing over the fate of a
:13:16. > :13:20.ring that once belonged to the British author, Jane Austen, she of
:13:20. > :13:26.Pride and Prejudice and �10 fame. The American popstar Kelly Clarkson
:13:26. > :13:30.bought it at auction last year, she paid �150,000 for it. But the
:13:30. > :13:35.Culture Minister, Ed Vaizey, has put an export bar on the ring to
:13:35. > :13:42.stop it leaving the UK. # My life
:13:42. > :13:48.# Would suck # Without you It was a line that Mr
:13:48. > :13:53.Darcey never used, but even without Jane Austen's modern literary
:13:53. > :13:57.tongue, recent adaptations of her work have been as regular as
:13:57. > :14:01.flirtatious dances at a high society dance. Nothing symbolises
:14:01. > :14:06.Jane Austen's position as national treasure, quite as much as the Bank
:14:06. > :14:11.of England's recent announcement to use her face on the �10 note. Has
:14:11. > :14:15.all this veneration gone too far. Some feel the Government's decision
:14:15. > :14:20.to stop Kelly Clarkson taking one of Jane Austen's rings out of the
:14:20. > :14:24.country, pending a UK bid is well bad manners, quite frankly but for
:14:24. > :14:29.now if you live in the UK and you have �150,000 lying around, you
:14:29. > :14:35.could own a piece of British history. Oh and ruin the day of a
:14:35. > :14:41.global superstar while you are at it. I'm joined by two historians,
:14:41. > :14:45.Kate Williams who has a Gollum-like fascination to hang on to the ring,
:14:45. > :14:50.and my other guest who doesn't care where it goes as long as it has a
:14:50. > :14:54.good home. Why is it so important that we hang on to it? It is a ring
:14:54. > :14:58.that is really vital. Austen had a modest lifestyle, she didn't have
:14:58. > :15:02.many items. There were only three pieces of jewellery she had and
:15:02. > :15:10.this is one of them. It is so vital to know her as a person and see the
:15:10. > :15:14.things she had around her. We know she had this, she passed to her
:15:14. > :15:19."dear Cassandra" whom she wrote to so much. This had a massive impact
:15:19. > :15:23.on her imagination, as a wriert the things around you have an impact.
:15:23. > :15:26.It is such a lovely love story, there is this man who loves this
:15:26. > :15:30.woman, Kelly Clarkson, who loves Jane Austen, so she goes and has
:15:30. > :15:34.the ring from him. Jane Austen would have approved of that
:15:34. > :15:38.wouldn't she? I do feel for poor Kelly Clarkson, obviously she
:15:38. > :15:42.bought the ring at auction and expected to have it. This happens a
:15:42. > :15:46.lot, there are a lot of export bans on items the British Government
:15:46. > :15:50.believe belong here in an institution and they put them out.
:15:50. > :15:54.If nobody can give the �150,000 Kelly can keep it for herself, she
:15:54. > :15:59.has agreed to sell it, but she accepts the fact it might have to
:15:59. > :16:03.stay in the UK. We have seen a lot of things overseas because money
:16:03. > :16:08.couldn't be raised, expensive things that cost millions. �150,000
:16:08. > :16:12.is not that much. For me the estimate for this was about �30,000,
:16:12. > :16:16.we should have thought more carefully before putting it on sale
:16:16. > :16:19.to offer it to anyone who wanted it. Why are you so much more relaxed
:16:19. > :16:23.about this? Because I don't think this is a national treasure sure. I
:16:23. > :16:27.think these are the sort of things we bandy about the terms of things
:16:27. > :16:31.we need to keep, perhaps if we were talking about a Turner I would feel
:16:31. > :16:35.differently or her manuscripts, this is just a trinket that she
:16:35. > :16:39.owned. But one of three, she didn't have much bling has was said?
:16:39. > :16:43.don't know her as a fashion icon but as a writer. This is not
:16:43. > :16:47.relevant really to the story. I think actually the question of you
:16:47. > :16:53.know which historic items we want to hold on to, there has only been
:16:53. > :16:57.three temporary export bans apart from this, all random things. At
:16:57. > :17:00.the same time there is a question about ownership, she has fairly
:17:00. > :17:04.legally procured this and paid for it. If the Government felt so
:17:04. > :17:07.strongly about it and it was so important to keep it they should
:17:07. > :17:10.have intervened to stop the sale or purchase it. It is interesting
:17:10. > :17:15.isn't it, if you believe this should stay in Britain because of
:17:15. > :17:20.the British heritage, we have museums filled with stuff that
:17:20. > :17:24.belongs to other countries. The Queen in her own Treasury has a
:17:24. > :17:28.large diamond the Indians would like back. If you carry that to its
:17:28. > :17:32.conclusion and someone has a passionate link why send them all
:17:32. > :17:35.back? I wouldn't disagree we have to engage carefully with what we
:17:35. > :17:40.have in our museums, and whether or not things like the Elgin Marbles
:17:40. > :17:46.should go back. These are important questions we have to deal with as a
:17:46. > :17:49.wider question with heritage. For me this is a vital part of her life.
:17:49. > :17:54.Nowadays we are throw-away about our objects, we have objects around
:17:54. > :17:57.us, we recycle them or put them on Ebay. In the 18th century we had
:17:57. > :18:01.few things, even the upper middle- classes had few items. What they
:18:01. > :18:06.did have was vested with a huge amount of significance, in Austen's
:18:07. > :18:12.novels the objects are invested with so much significance, there is
:18:12. > :18:16.a whole section in Mansfield Park where Fanny bonders for pages about
:18:16. > :18:19.which change to wear. That is because rings, objects, items were
:18:19. > :18:24.vital to women of Austen's time. Even though we haven't writing
:18:24. > :18:28.about it in a book, it would have impacted a lot on her creative
:18:28. > :18:32.imagination. That is an exposure of the woman she was. She's enigmatic,
:18:33. > :18:37.it is hard to know much about her, because she put her heart and soul
:18:37. > :18:42.into her books. Do you understand why she inhabits the place that
:18:42. > :18:45.Kate describes, why she is on the �10 note? I understand that and I
:18:46. > :18:49.understand the point about material possessions, but I think this is a
:18:49. > :18:53.political argument. This isn't toe do with the value of this object.
:18:53. > :18:57.This is about the fact that she has been put on the �10. In practice
:18:57. > :19:01.actually this object it doesn't have that great cultural
:19:01. > :19:06.significance to us. The point you raised about the Elgin Marbles you
:19:06. > :19:11.raised is crucial, this is posturing to say we have to keep
:19:11. > :19:15.the things that are our's and not our's as well. It is greedy above
:19:15. > :19:19.all things and hypocritical. I just wonder whether I detect somewhere
:19:19. > :19:23.in your voice feeling that maybe she's a little overrated is that
:19:23. > :19:28.why you are quite as laissez faire about it? I'm not laissez faire
:19:28. > :19:32.about historical objects at all, I like Persuasion particularly and
:19:32. > :19:34.like Jane Austen very much. I think the heart of this isn't about
:19:35. > :19:38.whether this is the care for the historic object, of course these
:19:38. > :19:42.things must go where they are going to be cared for and preserved,
:19:42. > :19:45.completely agree with that. That is not what's at stake here, what is
:19:45. > :19:48.at stake is a question about nationalism and investing national
:19:48. > :19:57.pride in an object that has actually been legally procured when
:19:57. > :20:01.some of the other objects we were talking about were not. I hear you
:20:01. > :20:05.are starting a whip round? I am, and lots of people joining in, and
:20:05. > :20:09.saying let's go for it and join together. Obviously if it was going
:20:09. > :20:13.to �29 million I wouldn't have a chance, but if someone comes
:20:13. > :20:17.forward with �150,000 they have to give it to an institution for 100
:20:17. > :20:23.days of the year, so it will be shown for 100 days of the year. To
:20:23. > :20:26.me this is a vital national object and it shows a lot about one of our
:20:26. > :20:29.greatest authors. President Shimon Peres is the
:20:29. > :20:33.world's oldest head of state. He has served as his country's Prime
:20:33. > :20:37.Minister twice in his own right and once as interim Prime Minister. It
:20:37. > :20:43.has been a long political career which has seen the one-time hawk
:20:43. > :20:48.who helped establish Israel's nuclear programme turn into a dove.
:20:48. > :20:53.Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 after signing the Oslo accord.
:20:53. > :20:56.As he celebrates his 90th birthday, we travelled to Israel to ask what
:20:56. > :21:03.he thought of his legacy and whether he believed the chances for
:21:03. > :21:07.a two-state solution had life in them yet?
:21:07. > :21:11.# Happy birthday to you # Happy birthday
:21:11. > :21:21.Reaching 90 is a landmark for anyone. But the birthday party for
:21:21. > :21:27.this President was something else. A spectacle. His friends and family
:21:27. > :21:34.came from far and wide. It is his birthday, he's 90, now he's
:21:34. > :21:44.President, what comes next? Well, we in Britain have our Queen and
:21:44. > :21:44.
:21:44. > :21:51.you have your Shimon. Shimon Peres was born in what was
:21:51. > :21:56.then Poland in 1923. The son of a librarian and timber merchant. His
:21:56. > :22:00.family migrated to the Middle East in 1934 during the British mandate
:22:00. > :22:03.of Palestine. It wasn't long before he stood with the men tasked it
:22:03. > :22:11.with building the state of Israel. Includinging its first leader,
:22:11. > :22:13.David Ben-Gurion. At 29 Peres became the youngest-
:22:14. > :22:21.ever Director General of the Defence Ministry. It became his
:22:21. > :22:28.mission, building Israel's military might. I did what was the most
:22:28. > :22:34.essential thing, they say I was buying out, I was buying life.
:22:34. > :22:36.you played a key role as Director General of the military it was
:22:36. > :22:41.absolutely important that Israel developed as a military power in
:22:41. > :22:48.the region? Yes, to defend ourselves, we were alone. Nobody
:22:48. > :22:54.came on to our side. We were 650,000 people. There are 40
:22:54. > :23:00.million Arabs, we are outgunned, outnumbers. The country was poor,
:23:00. > :23:06.no land, no water, no houses. What should we have done? People speak
:23:06. > :23:12.as though you have a choice, we didn't have a choice.
:23:12. > :23:18.Today Israel has the most advanced military in the Middle East.
:23:18. > :23:28.Including figure air power. The man who bought the first plane is still
:23:28. > :23:29.
:23:29. > :23:34.ring side. When another class of airmen and women graduate. Even on
:23:34. > :23:37.days when Israel's talking about making peace it is showing off its
:23:37. > :23:44.formidable defences, that is what it has always been here. Not just
:23:44. > :23:52.about peace, but peace and security. The two have always been left-wing
:23:52. > :23:56.-- linked in the life of Shimon Peres. He was a hawk as long as
:23:56. > :23:59.there was a danger to Israel. I didn't change, the situation
:23:59. > :24:05.changed, if somebody wants to kill you you are a hawk, if somebody
:24:05. > :24:10.wants to make peace with you you are a dove, as simple as that.
:24:10. > :24:15.In the early years the hawk prevailed. Peres was the driving
:24:15. > :24:18.force behind the construction of a highly-secretive nuclear site in
:24:18. > :24:24.the late 50s. He did it despite fierce opposition at home and
:24:24. > :24:30.abroad. To this day Israel has still not officially confirmed the
:24:30. > :24:35.extent of its nuclear capability. You pushed almost singlehandedly to
:24:36. > :24:42.give Israel that nuclear power. What happened? Where is the
:24:42. > :24:49.opposition? And now ...You Feel vindicated now? I really tried to
:24:49. > :24:56.build a nuclear option in order to get peace. Not to get bombs. And I
:24:56. > :25:01.think it achieved the purpose. I think peace started because some
:25:01. > :25:05.people thought that we have things that we don't have or may have it
:25:05. > :25:10.doesn't matter. I never thought in military terms. So this is Shimon
:25:10. > :25:19.Peres's view on it, you can make peace as long as you are sure that
:25:19. > :25:26.Israel can win any war? No that Israel, but our enemies came to the
:25:26. > :25:33.conclusion they cannot destroy us. In its 65 years Israel has gone to
:25:33. > :25:39.war in every decade. Done battle against Arab neighbours and
:25:39. > :25:49.Palestinians. Always insisting it acted in self-defence. Always
:25:49. > :25:54.accused of aggression and occupation. But two decades ago the
:25:54. > :26:02.guns fell silent. At least for a moment. Trying to make peace became
:26:02. > :26:10.the best defence against war. we are doing today is more than
:26:10. > :26:16.signing an agreement. It is a revolution. Yesterday a dream today
:26:16. > :26:21.a commitment. September 1993 and enemies came together on the White
:26:21. > :26:26.House lawn. Israeli and Palestinian loaders put their signatures to the
:26:26. > :26:32.Oslo accords. An interim deal on sharing the land, intended to move
:26:32. > :26:38.them towards a more peaceful co- existence. Both Prime Minister
:26:38. > :26:42.Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister, Peres, had made a strategic shift.
:26:42. > :26:48.But two decades on the two sides still haven't signed a final peace
:26:48. > :26:56.deal. And the US is still trying to broker one. Now it's thek Secretary
:26:56. > :27:03.of State John Kerry who is doing the shuttling. For the Palestinians
:27:03. > :27:07.involved in this protracted process settlement building remains a major
:27:07. > :27:13.obstacle. Mr Peres's greatest mistake was to show tolerance to
:27:13. > :27:17.settlers. Very unfortunate. They felt they could have both. Shimon
:27:17. > :27:20.Peres thought they could have settlements and peace. Mr Peres you
:27:20. > :27:30.can't. I have told him many times, the choice is between settlements
:27:30. > :27:35.
:27:35. > :27:40.or peace? Some of the first Jewish settlements in the West Bank were
:27:40. > :27:43.built when Peres was Defence Minister, settlement building on
:27:43. > :27:46.occupied land is regarded as illegal under international law,
:27:46. > :27:53.but it has never stopped. Recent Israeli Government figures show
:27:53. > :27:59.construction is at a seven-year high. Those who listen to you
:27:59. > :28:03.talking about peace expect you to be more critical of settlement
:28:03. > :28:10.building. They look back saying the first settlements were built on
:28:10. > :28:20.your watch, some of the first in the 1970s? When my party lost there
:28:20. > :28:25.
:28:25. > :28:32.were in Israel 22 settlements with, I think, 6,000 people. So it was
:28:32. > :28:37.building settlements. When you compare the 6 ,000 to 350,000.
:28:37. > :28:43.Palestinians say you can't discuss the land for a Palestinian state
:28:43. > :28:47.while Israel continues to build settlements on it. How do you
:28:48. > :28:52.reconcile that contradiction? are solutions. First of all the
:28:52. > :28:58.Palestinians agreed there will be three blocks. There are Jewish
:28:58. > :29:06.settlers on the West Bank and they can remain, that was a proposal
:29:06. > :29:16.introduced by President Clinton, it was right and acceptable. And you
:29:16. > :29:19.
:29:19. > :29:24.know in my experience negotiations are not trading, negotiations are
:29:24. > :29:27.creating, namely to have new solutions. The search for new
:29:27. > :29:32.solutions is what drives the new peace talks that have just started
:29:32. > :29:36.in Washington. Peres watches this closely. But in his role as
:29:36. > :29:39.President there is only so much he can do.
:29:39. > :29:42.In your relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu, do you truly believe
:29:42. > :29:49.that he shares your idea of a two- state solution? He didn't start
:29:49. > :29:53.with the two-state solution, you know, the Likud was not for the
:29:53. > :29:57.two-state solution. For me his declaration that he is for a two-
:29:57. > :30:00.state solution is at least an ideolgical step forward, which I
:30:00. > :30:07.appreciate. But he doesn't have a kind of cabinet that can make peace.
:30:07. > :30:13.Most of it is against the two-state solution? Look he is running his
:30:13. > :30:22.party and his considerations. Maybe I look upon it differently, so
:30:22. > :30:30.what? Look I can do what I can do, there is no dictator in our country.
:30:30. > :30:38.I can't give orders. My wish is really peace between two peoples
:30:38. > :30:43.who deserve it, who need it, who can do it. Many say time is running
:30:43. > :30:48.out to make peace. Now in the twilight of his career, Shimon
:30:48. > :30:54.Peres may never achieve his life's ambition. He knows that. But it
:30:54. > :31:04.won't stop him from trying. So it can be done, in your time? Yes,
:31:04. > :31:04.
:31:04. > :31:14.sure. That's all we have time for, have a
:31:14. > :31:38.
:31:38. > :31:43.Hello there, it may not be the headline you would like for the
:31:43. > :31:47.weekend, but we are back to sunny spells and scattered showers. The
:31:47. > :31:51.showers isolated first thing on Saturday, persistent rain up into
:31:51. > :31:54.the far North West and here a stronger wind. By the middle of the
:31:54. > :31:56.afternoon we will still have a scattering of showers across
:31:56. > :31:59.Northern Ireland and Scotland. Sheltered eastern areas should see
:32:00. > :32:04.the best of the breaks in the cloud and the dryer weather and
:32:04. > :32:10.temperatures reflecting this with 18-19. Largely fine and dry with
:32:10. > :32:14.decent shun shine. A pleasant feel to things, a breeze in the north of
:32:14. > :32:18.England. Showers more organised in bands stretching across the
:32:18. > :32:21.Midlands and towards the north of London. Sandwiched either side
:32:21. > :32:25.there will be sunshine and warmth. Here the temperatures into the mid-
:32:25. > :32:29.20s, some of the showers down through the south west could be
:32:29. > :32:32.fairly potent, maybe with the odd rumble of thunder, as in the
:32:32. > :32:35.southern part of Wales. With the showers you may be lucky and escape
:32:35. > :32:39.them and enjoy decent sunshine. The showers will continue to fade away
:32:39. > :32:42.during Saturday. A quiet night and the best of the sunshine to come on
:32:42. > :32:45.Sunday through sheltered eastern areas. A few more showers to the
:32:45. > :32:49.North West, more organised rain arriving to the extreme south-west