:00:17. > :00:23.that Russia has returned to a Cold War mentality as he cancels talks
:00:23. > :00:28.in Moscow over The Snowman affair and condemns new anti-gay laws. A
:00:28. > :00:32.few weeks ago he and President Putin seemed so happy together. Do
:00:32. > :00:37.we fundamentally misunderstand Russia, do they long to be back in
:00:37. > :00:41.the USSR. We speak to guests in Washington, New York and in the
:00:42. > :00:47.studio. The Government promised broad band fast and furious, even
:00:47. > :00:56.to some of the most remote locations. As they push the target
:00:56. > :01:01.back are they putting the future prosperity at risk. The future is
:01:01. > :01:04.about lots of width in every direction. We need bidirectional
:01:04. > :01:08.broadband, we have invested in fundamentally the wrong technology.
:01:08. > :01:11.Tonight there are claims of an attempt on President Assad's life.
:01:11. > :01:18.His enemies may have had a bad start to the summer, but now there
:01:18. > :01:24.is evidence that things may be changing. Back in May the
:01:24. > :01:30.Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, enjoyed a dinner as guest speaker
:01:30. > :01:34.at a group called Traditional Britain, now alerted on their views
:01:34. > :01:44.on immigration he feels shocked, I will ask why he felt the need to
:01:44. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :01:51.say so. Do we understand what makes Russia tick, there was a belief
:01:51. > :01:55.that Russia would open up like a can of caviar and all the old
:01:55. > :02:02.paranoia and mistrust of the west would disappear. Now President
:02:02. > :02:07.Obama insensed by the Snowden affair has said that Russia has a
:02:07. > :02:14.Cold War mentality, and after the passing of anti-gay laws, there are
:02:14. > :02:18.calls from some, Stephen Fry, among them, for a boycott of the Winter
:02:18. > :02:24.Olympics. But a democratic parliament has passeded that law
:02:24. > :02:28.and Vladimir Putin's ratings haven't nose dived. Vladimir Putin
:02:28. > :02:32.has again been clashing with critics inside Russia and abroad.
:02:32. > :02:36.While still revelling in his image as a hard man.
:02:36. > :02:41.Over the past 24 hours he has scuppered plans for a proposed
:02:41. > :02:46.summit with President Obama by granting tempry asylum to Edward
:02:46. > :02:51.Snowden. While Russia's new anti- gay legislation has led for calls
:02:51. > :03:01.for the country to be striped of the forth coming Winter Olympics.
:03:01. > :03:02.
:03:02. > :03:05.What is Vladimir Putin's agenda? Relations with the US have been
:03:05. > :03:11.chilly ever since Putin returned to the Kremlin for a third term last
:03:11. > :03:21.year. The Russians were furious at America's Magnitsky Act, named in
:03:21. > :03:24.
:03:24. > :03:30.honour of a whistle blowing lawyer. He -- Obama and Putin last met at
:03:30. > :03:33.the G8 summit in June. Now comes Obama's cancellation of their one-
:03:34. > :03:37.to-one meeting next month. The White House cited a lack of
:03:37. > :03:41.progress on missile defence, trade, global security and human rights,
:03:41. > :03:48.and of course there is The Snowman question. President Obama said he
:03:48. > :03:58.was "disappointed -- the Snowden question. President Obama said he
:03:58. > :04:04.
:04:04. > :04:07.I think Putin has deliberately decided to poke Obama in the eye.
:04:07. > :04:11.Even before Snowden, this was not a happy relationship between the
:04:11. > :04:15.United States and Russia. There has been a chapter of events that have
:04:15. > :04:18.deeply upset Putin, maybe something went wrong at the G8 summit in
:04:18. > :04:22.Northern Ireland. This has been a deliberate act decided by the
:04:22. > :04:32.Kremlin. Don't believe any of that Russian stuff about low-level
:04:32. > :04:36.officials having taken the decision. Putin's election campaign last year
:04:36. > :04:42.was marked by a series of mass protests in Moscow and other major
:04:42. > :04:47.cities. His reaction, according to Human Rights Watch was to introduce
:04:47. > :04:51.curbs on public demonstrations and a wider definition of treason, what
:04:51. > :04:56.they described as the worst political crackdown in Russia's
:04:56. > :05:00.post-soviet history. The pop group, Pussy Riot, became the
:05:00. > :05:04.international symbol of the protests. After being arrested
:05:04. > :05:13.performing an anti-Putin anthem in a Cathedral. Two band members are
:05:13. > :05:15.serving jail sentences in remote prison colonies for racism
:05:15. > :05:18.highlighted and politically motivated. In June the Russian
:05:18. > :05:23.parliament approved a new law, allowing jail sentences for
:05:24. > :05:29.offending religious feelings. Along with another controversial new
:05:29. > :05:33.federal law banning gay propaganda aimed at minors, which also imposes
:05:33. > :05:37.fines on those holding gay pride rallies. It is already having an
:05:37. > :05:42.effect. This gay rights demonstration last week was broken
:05:42. > :05:48.up by paratroopers. Scenes like this, it is argued, help Putin
:05:48. > :05:53.maintain his power base. He needs to consolidate his power
:05:53. > :05:57.base and he sees it as the conservative portion of the
:05:57. > :06:03.politician, whether using devisive issues like gays, Snowden, NGOs,
:06:03. > :06:06.what have you, he can drive a wedge between those positions by the
:06:06. > :06:09.liberal opposition, which are liberal and broad and western-
:06:09. > :06:15.looking and the core conservative traditional values, as he would
:06:15. > :06:19.couch them, he would see them as Putin's majority.
:06:19. > :06:24.But Russia's repressive new laws could have international
:06:24. > :06:28.implications. In February next year the 22nd Winter Olympics to be held
:06:28. > :06:31.in Sochi, a Russian city on the black sea. The Russian Sports
:06:31. > :06:34.Minister said while the rights of athletes competing will be
:06:34. > :06:39.respected, they would have to respect the laws of the country.
:06:39. > :06:42.Including the anti-gay laws. The actor and writer Stephen Fry has
:06:42. > :06:52.called for Russia to be striped of the Olympic event as a protest over
:06:52. > :07:09.
:07:09. > :07:14.Putin, a man who loves his macho image doesn't seem to care. Russia
:07:14. > :07:17.is increasingingly divided, but he's not worried by the liberals or
:07:17. > :07:21.educated urban opposition, so long as well over half the country
:07:21. > :07:26.support him and his conservative nationalist agenda, as it seems
:07:26. > :07:33.they do. He clearly feels he can do what he wants.
:07:33. > :07:40.Joining us from Washington we have Julia Ioffe, a former Moscow
:07:40. > :07:47.correspondent for the New Yorker, a LGBT rights activist, Nancy
:07:47. > :07:52.Goldstein, Ilya Ponomarev, an activist against Putin, and
:07:52. > :07:57.Alexander Nekrassov, a former Kremlin adviser. First of all, this
:07:57. > :08:01.idea, particularly on the Snowden affair, that Putin is poking Obama
:08:01. > :08:05.in the eye is one thing, on the anti-gay legislation, as it was
:08:05. > :08:10.said in the film, this appeals to traditional Russia values, would
:08:10. > :08:15.you say, actually, that he has Putinism, and it has the backing of
:08:15. > :08:20.the majority of the Russian people? You see I think that both notions,
:08:20. > :08:25.the notion about Snowden and the notion about these anti-gay laws
:08:25. > :08:30.and many other conservative pieces of legislation that were passed
:08:30. > :08:33.recently, they were all driven by internal politics. Putin badly
:08:34. > :08:38.needs to consolidate this conservative part of the society,
:08:38. > :08:43.which represents basically around two thirds of the Russian
:08:43. > :08:48.population. His support base is deteriorating very rapidly recently
:08:48. > :08:52.and without getting those guys together, without proving that he
:08:52. > :08:57.is the man for the stability of the country, and for this traditional
:08:57. > :09:01.Russian values, indeed, without that he cannot preserve his power.
:09:01. > :09:06.But Alexander Nekrassov, it is also, is it not about distancing himself
:09:06. > :09:09.from the west. Saying that Russia can be great again, it is the
:09:09. > :09:12.resurgence of the church and so forth, it is the clampdown of the
:09:12. > :09:16.whole Pussy Riot business, it is him saying that he stands for a
:09:16. > :09:22.particular kind of, as it were, conservative Russia? In a sense,
:09:22. > :09:27.yes. He has to respect the views of the people who live in Russia. Not
:09:27. > :09:31.listen to what what western powers are saying to him. We saw images
:09:31. > :09:35.there of young Russian children attacking gay protestors, I mean is
:09:35. > :09:39.that what Russia, is that the future for Russia? First of all
:09:39. > :09:45.this law has been misinterpreted and I think there is a lot of
:09:45. > :09:50.confusion around it. Because this law was about protecting the
:09:50. > :09:53.children and protecting their welfare. From what?From any sort
:09:53. > :09:58.of propaganda, including any pornography or anything at all.
:09:58. > :10:03.Let's be clear. That is part of the law. But the thrust of the law, it
:10:03. > :10:07.would appear, is that it is saying that relations between people of
:10:07. > :10:13.the same-sex cannot be discussed or represented in front of children.
:10:13. > :10:20.Now if children get that sense they also get the sense that in itself
:10:20. > :10:24.is wrong, do you believe in Russia that gay relationships are wrong?
:10:24. > :10:29.Do we believe in Russia. No, I'm explaining to you about the law, we
:10:29. > :10:34.are getting confused by that law and Mr Fry got confused by it as
:10:34. > :10:39.well. It is about preventing children from having any
:10:39. > :10:42.information about hetrosexual sex or gay sex all of it, together.
:10:42. > :10:46.That was thrown out. We are witnessing now that we are only
:10:46. > :10:49.sticking to one part of that law. Nancy Goldstein, you have heard
:10:49. > :10:55.what Alexander Nekrassov says, that actually you got the wrong end of
:10:55. > :10:58.the stick here, this is not actually a piece of anti-gay
:10:58. > :11:01.legislation, it is protecting children from all sorts of things
:11:01. > :11:05.including pornography? I would remind the gentleman that the
:11:05. > :11:08.children of Russia are standing there on the streets watching the
:11:08. > :11:11.police beat peaceful protestors bloody. So I don't think that is
:11:11. > :11:16.the best influence on them either. And in fact we are going to have a
:11:16. > :11:22.chance to see if the gentleman is correct about the interpretation of
:11:22. > :11:26.the law. A Russian gay activist stood on the steps of a library in
:11:26. > :11:29.Moscow and unfurled a banner that said "homosexuality is normal".
:11:30. > :11:34.He's the first person to be arrested and indicted under the new
:11:34. > :11:37.law, we are watching his trial with great, great interest to see
:11:37. > :11:41.exactly how this law will be interpret. Let me put that to
:11:41. > :11:46.Alexander Nekrassov. Was it right to arrest him. Homosexuality is
:11:46. > :11:52.normal, what is so provocative about saying that? I can't comment
:11:52. > :11:58.on individual cases. Do you agree with his arrest? What I can say to
:11:58. > :12:01.the American guest, is her country support countries like Saudi Arabia
:12:02. > :12:05.where gays and lesbians are arrested and tortured, we are
:12:05. > :12:09.missing a big point here. Let's go through all the countries in the
:12:09. > :12:16.Middle East and outside who America supports and arms and gives money
:12:16. > :12:24.to and ask them why don't they ask them. Why don't they ask China
:12:24. > :12:28.about that? Let me bring in Julia Ioffe there. You are a resident
:12:28. > :12:35.American. Do you think we misunderstand what is happening in
:12:35. > :12:38.Russia in the west, do we actually understand the Russian psyche?
:12:38. > :12:45.don't think we're misinterpreting it. One thing that we are missing
:12:45. > :12:50.here is that if you are a foreigner who is found to be guilty of
:12:50. > :12:55.propagaging gay propaganda, which includes not talking about
:12:55. > :12:59.hetrosexual sex, but saying that hetrosexual relationships are equal
:12:59. > :13:03.to homosexual relationships, for saying things like homosexual
:13:03. > :13:09.relationships are normal. If a foreigner is convicted of doing
:13:09. > :13:19.that a Russian faces a fine, a foreigner convicted of it faces
:13:19. > :13:19.
:13:19. > :13:23.potential jail time. And if we're talking about, China, Saudi Arabia,
:13:23. > :13:26.they don't pretend to be part of Europe and are not party to any
:13:26. > :13:29.European conventions. They don't sit around talking about how they
:13:29. > :13:33.are an integral part of European culture and part of the civilised
:13:33. > :13:37.world. They say we are China, we're going to do things our way, get out
:13:37. > :13:40.of our business. Russia tries to be part of the west and says, when it
:13:40. > :13:46.is convenient for Russia says, no, no, no get out, this is not
:13:46. > :13:51.something we want in our country. What President Obama has said is
:13:51. > :13:56.that there is a neo-Cold War going on here, that the distance between
:13:56. > :14:00.the west and Russia is becoming greater. Alexander Nekrassov do you
:14:00. > :14:05.worry about that? I worry about things when an American President
:14:05. > :14:10.goes on a chat show and says things like that on a comedy chat show.
:14:10. > :14:13.Where he's wrong is that we will always have cycles and we will
:14:13. > :14:17.always see politicians saying things, posturing and so on, what I
:14:18. > :14:21.see from another side is the economic ties and links are
:14:21. > :14:25.strengthening. Americans invest a lot of money into Russia, the
:14:25. > :14:29.British invest a lot of money. I can tell you, for example, if you
:14:29. > :14:33.compare Russia and America, who is more friendly to Britain, BP is
:14:33. > :14:37.being torn apart from Britain, where as BP in Russia was given 20%
:14:37. > :14:46.of the biggest oil co-operation in the world. Isn't --Corporate in
:14:46. > :14:49.the world. Isn't that the case, the real politic of this is there may
:14:49. > :14:53.be concerns over freedoms and rights for gay people, but at the
:14:53. > :14:57.end of the day it is about hard cash and up people like BP who are
:14:57. > :15:04.presumably not going to pull out of Russia because they don't like what
:15:04. > :15:08.President Putin is doing on the civil discourse? Putin always is
:15:08. > :15:14.very pragmatic. He always divides the issues of civil rights and all
:15:15. > :15:21.this blah blah like he wants to say. And real business. So, of course,
:15:21. > :15:27.BP is more than welcome, any other western corporations, they are more
:15:27. > :15:33.than welcome. They appear to be the first who actually praise all
:15:33. > :15:38.Putin's wrong doings against civil society in Russia. For example the
:15:38. > :15:46.current CEO of British Petroleum was the first one who praised
:15:46. > :15:50.imprisonment of Karakofski, to gain more rights for his oil company to
:15:50. > :15:54.get more oil deposits in Russia, that is very unfortunate. But the
:15:54. > :15:59.fact, of course, Putin's own business is all in the western
:15:59. > :16:03.world. So what he wants to do is divide and conquer. He wants
:16:03. > :16:09.Russian society to drift apart from the western society. But he wants
:16:09. > :16:13.his own team to be in the west. Julie, isn't the reality that these
:16:13. > :16:19.big economic and business ties will survive no matter the regime in
:16:19. > :16:24.Russia? I wouldn't quite put it that way. First of all, when we are
:16:24. > :16:28.talking about the US we greatly overstatement the economic ties.
:16:28. > :16:33.Russia is in 20th place when it comes to trading partners with the
:16:33. > :16:37.US. There are plenty of other countries ahead of the pack. We see
:16:37. > :16:42.that BP has scaled back its operations in Russia. BP had quite
:16:42. > :16:47.a hard time in Russia. A lot of countries, a lot of companies do
:16:47. > :16:51.struggle with the endemic and unpredictable corruption in Russia,
:16:51. > :16:54.where corruption isn't just greasing the wheels of a
:16:54. > :16:58.bureaucratic system, but where the state comes to you and extorts
:16:58. > :17:01.money. If we are talking about the Olympics, the place where there is
:17:01. > :17:06.the most corruption is Sochi and the projects going on around the
:17:06. > :17:12.Olympics to prepare the city. Goldstein, on the question, let me
:17:12. > :17:16.bring you in, on the question of boycott, you are not going to get a
:17:16. > :17:19.boycott of Sochi are you? In fact if the International Olympic
:17:19. > :17:24.Committee follows the own charter which says it will act against
:17:24. > :17:28.discrimination of any kind regarding the games, the IOC should
:17:28. > :17:31.move Sochi, I'm sure that Vancouver and Utah would be happy for the
:17:31. > :17:34.business. I want to say on the discussion of real politics, the
:17:34. > :17:39.rest of the world understands those politic too, that is why we are not
:17:39. > :17:46.aiming at a target as small as the Kremlin's heart. We are aiming for
:17:46. > :17:50.the wallet. And people like NBC and Coca-Cola and Visa and Panasonic
:17:50. > :17:54.and other companies all understand the value of not just American
:17:54. > :18:00.consumers and certainly not just American gay consumers, but decent
:18:00. > :18:03.people all over the western world who will boycott their products if
:18:03. > :18:07.they continue to espouse liberal politics and pro-gay politics in
:18:07. > :18:11.their organisations and support a dictator in terms of a corporate
:18:11. > :18:15.sponsorship of Sochi. The Conservative backbencher, Jacob
:18:15. > :18:20.Rees-Mogg, was today forced to distance himself from a political
:18:20. > :18:24.Campaign Group whose dinner he addressed in May. A posting on the
:18:24. > :18:28.Traditional Britain Facebook page after the dinner apined that Doreen
:18:28. > :18:33.Lawrence, recently awarded a peerage, should, along with
:18:33. > :18:37.millions of others, be requested to return to their natural homelands.
:18:37. > :18:41.Jacob Rees-Mogg said he was shocked and that he had associated himself
:18:41. > :18:50.with the group. Did he know the tenor of the organisation he was
:18:50. > :18:54.addressing? If not, why not? If so why did he have to apologise. This
:18:54. > :18:57.was the black tie dinner at the East India Club in May at which
:18:57. > :19:02.Jacob Rees-Mogg spoke as guest of honour. Knowledge of which has only
:19:02. > :19:06.just come to light. It is not anything he said there that has
:19:07. > :19:10.caused offence, but his presence at the Traditional Britain group in
:19:11. > :19:20.the first place. They have posted derrogatory comments on the
:19:21. > :19:31.
:19:31. > :19:34.Facebook page about the recently Jacob Rees-Mogg says he's shocked
:19:34. > :19:38.by the comment and has disassociated himself from the
:19:38. > :19:42.group. He says he was unaware of their views that Conservative
:19:42. > :19:47.Central Office hadn't been able to give him any information on them.
:19:47. > :19:51.But a very quick internet search and you can tell what the leanings
:19:51. > :19:56.of the Traditional Britain group are. Under a list of 21 standpoints,
:19:56. > :20:00.as they call them. You have things like "we believe our country is
:20:00. > :20:06.best served by our indigenous customs and traditions", then "we
:20:06. > :20:11.are opposed to internationalism and globalisation", and "we are opposed
:20:11. > :20:15.to mass immigration and multiculturalism". The day before
:20:15. > :20:18.the event this anti-fascism and racism campaign warned Mr Jacob
:20:18. > :20:28.Rees-Mogg in a phone conversation not to attend. I said these are
:20:28. > :20:36.really nasty People. -- nasty People. On the scale of being a bit
:20:36. > :20:40.naughty to being really nasy, I think they are very dangerous. They
:20:40. > :20:45.hide mind the cloak of being traditional Conservatives, but many
:20:45. > :20:49.are National Associationists. did he say? It was a revelation, he
:20:49. > :20:56.said he had given his word to attend and it is the last minute,
:20:56. > :21:01.it is 24-hours before the speech. I'm really disinclined to let
:21:01. > :21:08.people down. How we can possibly be giving a billion pounds a month in
:21:08. > :21:14.this sort of debt to Skup bongo bongo land. Today's revelations
:21:14. > :21:19.come after Godfrey Bloom was filmed making these comments. UKIP is
:21:19. > :21:22.picking up more votes from exConservatives than any other
:21:22. > :21:26.party. If you are a Conservative you want to speak to those groups
:21:26. > :21:30.on the right of politics to reaffirm your credentials as true
:21:30. > :21:35.blue, in whatever sense that might mean to traditional supporters. But
:21:35. > :21:39.as I say, it is a slightly tricky wicket. But at the same time many
:21:39. > :21:45.people in Britain would feel that MPs should be able to speak to all
:21:45. > :21:49.sorts of groups without necessarily endorsing their views. In a
:21:49. > :21:59.statement Traditional Britain group says it has no links with far right
:21:59. > :22:08.
:22:08. > :22:12.Conservative sources say the group is not affiliated to the party and
:22:12. > :22:18.they won't be taking any action against Jacob Rees-Mogg, that it is
:22:18. > :22:22.up to him to justify who he goes to dinner with.
:22:22. > :22:28.We will be speaking to Jacob Rees- Mogg in a moment. But first we're
:22:28. > :22:33.joined by the Vice President of the Traditional Britain group.
:22:33. > :22:36.First of all, are you dismayed that Jacob Rees-Mogg has seen fit to
:22:36. > :22:43.distance himself from you and he says he's shocked by some of the
:22:43. > :22:48.things that your group espouses? don't think that our group espouses
:22:48. > :22:55.anything that millions of other people in this country espouse. We
:22:55. > :23:00.believe in a traditional Britain. Our aims are incaps lated in our
:23:00. > :23:05.title. I'm very sorry if Jacob Rees-Mogg has been embarrassed by
:23:05. > :23:10.dinner, incaps lated by in our title. I'm sorry if Jacob Rees-Mogg
:23:10. > :23:15.was embarrassed by the dinner, he didn't have to come and see us.
:23:15. > :23:21.Couldn't he have been embarrassed by the Facebook page about Doreen
:23:21. > :23:25.Lawrence, and saying that you abhorred her peerage and she should
:23:25. > :23:29.go home to her natural homeland with others? Do you believe that?
:23:29. > :23:38.think she is totally without merit and it is a further debasement for
:23:38. > :23:43.the House of Lords. This is going on for some time. About people
:23:43. > :23:48.going home, I can only refer you to the Conservatives 1970 general
:23:48. > :23:50.election manifesto when they said they would halt immigration and
:23:50. > :23:55.encourage voluntary repatriation, we are in favour of that.
:23:55. > :24:00.You are in favour of voluntary repatriation and you agree with the
:24:00. > :24:03.Facebook comment posted on our website? I agree that voluntary
:24:03. > :24:06.repatriation should be encouraged and assisted by Her Majesty's
:24:06. > :24:11.Government, yes. Do you think that there should be a halt to
:24:11. > :24:15.immigration? Yes, I think there should be a halt to immigration.
:24:15. > :24:20.That has been promised by quite a number of administrations over the
:24:20. > :24:23.last 40 years, all of whom have failed to do it. We are sitting
:24:23. > :24:27.next to Jacob Rees-Mogg, we have the photograph here, you were
:24:27. > :24:31.sitting next to him at the diner, did you communicate your views on
:24:31. > :24:37.immigration to him during the dinner? No, because he was there as
:24:37. > :24:41.our guest to address us, not for me to address him. Did he seem
:24:41. > :24:46.embarrassed at the time by the tenor of the conversation? I think
:24:46. > :24:51.he was embarrassed that the communists at Search Light who you
:24:51. > :24:55.have already had on interviewing had been on to him saying that...So
:24:55. > :25:00.He mentioned it to you? Yes, he said that they had said we were
:25:01. > :25:07.very nasty people and so on, which is just comical, frankly. Can I
:25:07. > :25:10.just ask are you a former member of the BNP? I certainly amnot.When
:25:10. > :25:14.you were with Jacob Rees-Mogg did you seek to reassure him about any
:25:14. > :25:18.of your views on immigration, or were they obvious for him to read?
:25:18. > :25:22.We didn't have him there to discuss immigration. We had him there to
:25:22. > :25:27.hear what he had to say about a traditional Britain. We believe
:25:27. > :25:30.that he is a good Tory and a good traditionalist and we wanted to
:25:30. > :25:36.hear about his views on a traditional Britain. Thank you very
:25:36. > :25:43.much indeed. We can speak to Jacob Rees-Mogg who joins us from our
:25:43. > :25:49.Bristol studio. Having had the warning of the views of this group,
:25:49. > :25:52.you, Jacob Rees-Mogg, chose to go to the dinner? I clearly made a
:25:52. > :25:55.mistake. The postings we have recently seen are so deep low
:25:55. > :25:59.disgraceful and shocking that they have -- deeply disgraceful and
:25:59. > :26:03.shocking they have no place in British debate. Mrs Lawrence is a
:26:03. > :26:06.wonderful and courageous woman who has contributed to British life.
:26:06. > :26:11.Any traditional view of Conservatism, she should be
:26:11. > :26:16.applauded for what she has done. You have heard it was a travesty of
:26:16. > :26:19.the peerage system to give it to her and she was undeserving?
:26:20. > :26:24.think he's not only wrong but he fails to recognise the campaign she
:26:24. > :26:34.has run over an extraordinarily long time to expose impriorityity
:26:34. > :26:34.
:26:34. > :26:38.in the pept. The Metropolitan Police. When you were called and
:26:38. > :26:44.warned and it was only 24 hours time to go, you went on to the
:26:44. > :26:47.website and saw their aims did you? I made modest inquiries and my
:26:47. > :26:51.assistant asked Central Office if they knew the group and had any
:26:51. > :26:54.concerns. Clearly didn't do enough work to look into what they believe.
:26:54. > :26:58.Did you expect Conservative Central Office to have more information.
:26:58. > :27:01.Did he they give you any information? I'm not blaming
:27:01. > :27:06.Central Office, it was my fault, you accepted the invitation, I
:27:06. > :27:12.turned up to speak. It is my fault entirely that I spoke it a group
:27:12. > :27:15.that has subsequently posted these really unpleasant views. When the
:27:15. > :27:20.party talks about immigration, do you agree with him that there
:27:20. > :27:23.should be no more imglaigs? No. I believe that im--
:27:23. > :27:26.Immigration? No, I believe immigration should be controlled
:27:26. > :27:30.and I believe in the policy the Government has that we should
:27:30. > :27:33.manage our borders effectively. I support a reasonable amount of
:27:33. > :27:37.immigration which is very valuable to the country and has been over
:27:37. > :27:41.the whole history of England. you hear those views does that
:27:41. > :27:46.sound like the views of a racist then? I'm not going to make
:27:46. > :27:50.accusations of that kind. That will be for people listening to this
:27:50. > :27:54.programme whether they think that or not. Is there an issue, Jacob
:27:54. > :27:57.Rees-Mogg, you have already said that you regret. I assume you
:27:57. > :28:00.regret attending the dinner. But that actually there is a situation
:28:00. > :28:04.where MPs have to be so incredibly careful now that there may be views,
:28:04. > :28:09.he says, he says the views are shared with millions of people in
:28:09. > :28:11.the country, you can't even have a discussion about these views?
:28:11. > :28:17.think there is a difference addressing a dinner and having a
:28:17. > :28:20.discussion, what I regret is that I addressed a dinner and to any
:28:20. > :28:23.degree gave an appearence for approval of what they have been
:28:23. > :28:26.saying, that would not be my intention. It is important to
:28:26. > :28:32.discuss political views and show where they are false and wrong,
:28:32. > :28:35.which is why I do accept dozens of invitations to speak to try to put
:28:35. > :28:40.what I call a true Conservative view, not the really awful one that
:28:40. > :28:44.we have had from the website of the traditional Britain group. This
:28:44. > :28:48.happened back in me, presumably your memory until this rude
:28:48. > :28:58.awakening was of a good night, was it? There was no queasyness on the
:28:58. > :28:58.
:28:58. > :29:02.night, or after the dinner. dinner was a perfectly polite
:29:02. > :29:05.affair. So another invitation to what seems like a normal, ordinary
:29:05. > :29:12.Conservative organisation, you would go, or do you think you would
:29:12. > :29:15.have to make further inquiries? burnt fool's bandaged finger goes
:29:15. > :29:22.wobbling back to the fire. Mine won't be going back to any fires, I
:29:22. > :29:26.will make much more careful investigations in future. Thank you.
:29:26. > :29:30.The Syrian President has used Ramadan to put himself about for
:29:30. > :29:34.the TV cameras, claiming the upper hand against the rebels and the
:29:34. > :29:39.retaking of Homs. He has apparently made his third public appearence in
:29:39. > :29:47.little more than a week. This time attending prayers at a mosque in
:29:47. > :29:57.Damascus. But the rebel militant leader, Clement Attlee claims to
:29:57. > :29:58.
:29:58. > :30:07.have fired -- the all-laem brigade claimed to have fired mortars on
:30:07. > :30:10.his car. Is the Assad regime keeping the momentum up of the
:30:10. > :30:13.earlier summer? It is right in the earlier summer they appeared to
:30:13. > :30:18.have a head of steam behind them. But things have definitely not been
:30:18. > :30:22.going their way in the past week. The pendulum of war, if you like
:30:22. > :30:29.has swung. In several places Aleppo, north of there, there is an airbase,
:30:29. > :30:35.which they have lost, then there is the area around latd tackia on the
:30:35. > :30:39.coast, it -- Latakia on the coast, it has avoided the worst of the
:30:39. > :30:48.fighting but also the northest ooft capital itself. There have been
:30:48. > :30:52.interesting developments. If we start with Aleppo, amnesty released
:30:52. > :30:56.pictures of the impact of a year and shown before and after shots of
:30:56. > :31:00.a city block. And then you can see what happens when a balance alsoic
:31:00. > :31:04.missile, this was one fired -- ballistic missile, this was one
:31:04. > :31:12.fired six month ago and it flattens pretty much all the area in that
:31:12. > :31:17.part of the city. Very damage heavy in that part of the city.
:31:17. > :31:22.What happened there? There is an affair, most of the distance
:31:22. > :31:26.between the Turkish frontier and that, we can see a satellite image
:31:26. > :31:32.showing the layout of the runways. This is an outpost of the Assad
:31:33. > :31:36.regime control for the past few months, besieged, it had a real of
:31:36. > :31:39.supply base for resupplying Government village, pro-Government
:31:39. > :31:42.villages I should say, by helicopter. For month the
:31:42. > :31:47.opposition have tried to take it, in the last few days they attacked
:31:47. > :31:51.with suicide bombs and used anti- tank missiles to destroy the tanks
:31:51. > :31:56.that were guarding the place and then stormed the base. Footage has
:31:56. > :32:01.now emerged of them surveying their spoils, damaged and destroyed and
:32:01. > :32:04.indeed intact helicopters that can now no longer be used to help those
:32:04. > :32:14.pro-Assad villages around there. I think the real significance though
:32:14. > :32:17.of this is the role of militant Islamist groups, Jihadist groups. A
:32:17. > :32:20.still image has emerged of the fighters, the man with the red
:32:20. > :32:25.beard is said to be a Chechen commander, who led the operation.
:32:25. > :32:29.Andrews him you see people from Afghanistan, Pakistan, apparently
:32:29. > :32:32.Afghans and other foreign militant. This is being chalked up as a
:32:32. > :32:37.victory for the militants. Where else has the regime been in
:32:37. > :32:43.trouble? Another really interesting area is around Latakia.
:32:43. > :32:48.Mediterranean port, the mill country behind it is home to the
:32:48. > :32:51.Alawites, and his home town is near the President the tribe he comes
:32:51. > :32:55.from. A selection of opposition groups pushed down from the north,
:32:55. > :32:57.and during the weekend attacked a chain of villages to the north of
:32:57. > :33:03.the President's home town and succeeded in taking lots of
:33:03. > :33:09.position. They started off with anti-tank missiles, a similar
:33:09. > :33:15.methodology to one we saw at the airbase, taking out armoured
:33:15. > :33:18.vehicles, little small hilltop the forts you can see. They followed up
:33:18. > :33:22.with armour taken from them. All this sort of stack of weapons,
:33:22. > :33:30.another haul for the opposition, the kind of thing you expect. Once
:33:30. > :33:37.the hilltop forts are taken the villagers flee, and thousands of
:33:37. > :33:42.Alawites have fled and the artillery is in site of the home
:33:42. > :33:44.town of Mr Assad. The military still have the edge? They have the
:33:45. > :33:49.air force, ballistic weapons and chemical weapons and surveillance
:33:49. > :33:53.systems that the opposition can only dream of. But the disparity is
:33:53. > :33:56.being quickly eroded. All sorts of heavy weapons are now in the hand
:33:56. > :34:03.of the opposition. While the Americans debate to send small arms
:34:03. > :34:08.and a bit bigger, look at some of the pictures out this week. This is
:34:08. > :34:11.a colony of tanks, at the head of it the latest models of the Russian
:34:11. > :34:16.battle tank. The flag flying not of the Syrian National Coalition, it
:34:16. > :34:21.is a black flag of one of the militant Islamist groups, dozens of
:34:21. > :34:25.armoured vehicles have fallen in their hands very near Damascus.
:34:25. > :34:30.Some fascinating imagery that came out this week, a bunker, full of
:34:30. > :34:38.the kind of anti-tank missiles that we have seen in attacking those
:34:38. > :34:42.earlier places. Dozens and dozens of them taken by the opposition. Of
:34:42. > :34:45.course if you like the leaking bucket of the Assad regime means
:34:45. > :34:49.the Russians aren't just supplying him they are supplying the
:34:49. > :34:53.opposition, and as we have seen in the earlier footage that kind of
:34:53. > :34:59.weaponry can be used to real affect to try to equalise the balance at
:34:59. > :35:02.local level. According to the UN, access to the
:35:02. > :35:06.Internet is so fundamental to the way we live our lives that it
:35:06. > :35:10.should be regarded as a basic human right. Try telling that to the
:35:10. > :35:14.people who live in remote parts of Britain, increasingly frustrated as
:35:14. > :35:22.the rest of us enjoy faster and faster connections. In fact it is
:35:22. > :35:26.the latest speed tests, Ofcom has found that the gap between download
:35:26. > :35:30.speed between urban and rural areas has widened. The Government is
:35:30. > :35:35.spending millions of pounds of tax- payers' money to improve access and
:35:35. > :35:45.harder to reach parts. Is it the right technology and are we getting
:35:45. > :35:48.
:35:48. > :35:53.the value for unm? -- money.
:35:53. > :35:59.Today it is not just being connected, but being connected fast
:35:59. > :36:06.that decides if families stay in touch.
:36:06. > :36:10.Businesses succeed or fail. Nations grow or stagnate.
:36:10. > :36:14.But not everyone these days lives and works where it is easy to get
:36:14. > :36:21.on-line. Sometimes we all find ourselves
:36:21. > :36:24.somewhere a bit off the beaten track. The trouble is that getting
:36:24. > :36:29.internet access in remote rural places like this is not easy. The
:36:29. > :36:33.Government says it wants the vast majority of the UK to get super-
:36:33. > :36:37.fast broadband within a few years. But when it comes to remote, rural
:36:37. > :36:41.areas like this, commercial needs can often clash with public needs.
:36:41. > :36:45.It is not easy to make money from bringing the Internet to a place
:36:45. > :36:50.like this. The Government says it is trying to sort that out, but it
:36:50. > :36:53.is facing criticism, it is not doing a good enough job.
:36:53. > :36:57.Both Labour and the coalition have recognised that connecting some
:36:57. > :37:01.parts of the UK is commercially unattractive. So just over a
:37:01. > :37:07.billion pounds worth of public money is available to help. It is
:37:08. > :37:13.how that money is being spent and how fast that's causing concerns.
:37:13. > :37:19.Peter Cochrane used to work for British Telecom, where his job was
:37:19. > :37:25.to predict how technology might change our lives. He lives in
:37:25. > :37:30.Suffolk, he is mightly frustrated by broadband, and couldn't persuade
:37:30. > :37:35.his old employer to help. This village is surrounded by optic
:37:35. > :37:40.fibre owned by the railway and British Telecom. I can't get any of
:37:40. > :37:45.them to let me have access. I can't get any of them to put a fibre into
:37:45. > :37:52.the village. I have even offered to dig the trench of 300ms into the
:37:52. > :37:55.village myself with the help of the local farmers. Nobody wants to play.
:37:55. > :38:02.He and his neighbours have put in their own fast broadband system
:38:02. > :38:12.instead, with the help of a small entrepenural provider using a Wi-Fi
:38:12. > :38:16.fis them, made possible by a collaboration with the local --
:38:16. > :38:19.local church. They send a signal to that antenna over there and it is
:38:19. > :38:23.bounced over to this tower, and just below where you and I are
:38:23. > :38:29.standing right now is the Belfry. And behind the Belfry shutters we
:38:30. > :38:36.have a series of antennas like this, and they illuminate the village so
:38:36. > :38:39.everybody can get access to 32 megabits both ways. The village
:38:39. > :38:42.includes designers and consultants working from home, small businesses
:38:42. > :38:52.providing employment, and these days the more traditional rural
:38:52. > :38:58.
:38:58. > :39:02.business of farming is one of the most IT-intensive.
:39:02. > :39:09.This farm needs internet access to keep track of supplies and in touch
:39:09. > :39:14.with supermarket customers. He's not on the village church Wi-Fi
:39:14. > :39:20.broadband yet, but plans to switch. This morning I went into the office
:39:20. > :39:23.at 5.30 and no internet. So we feel as if we have lost a leg today. We
:39:23. > :39:27.are harvesting potatoes, within half an hour of our load going into
:39:27. > :39:32.the factory, when they have done the quality control, we instantly
:39:32. > :39:36.get a readout. If we have a problem we can go to the field and change
:39:36. > :39:43.it immediately, without having hundreds of tonnes on wheels, which
:39:43. > :39:48.might all get rejected. BT told us that Ufford is now on the rollout
:39:48. > :39:52.for rural broadband as one of the hard to reach areas, and should get
:39:52. > :39:58.fibre before 2015, possibly sooner. Nationally the picture is less
:39:58. > :40:06.positive. Last month the National Audit
:40:06. > :40:12.Office found that only nine of 44 rural broadband projects will reach
:40:12. > :40:17.their target that 99% get super- fast coverage by May this year. In
:40:17. > :40:24.June the Government shifted the target, now 95% of all UK premises
:40:24. > :40:29.will be covered, not until 2017, two years later than scheduled.
:40:29. > :40:33.But it is not just how how long it is taking to get broadband in place
:40:33. > :40:43.that is the problem, but what some see as a lack of overall ambition
:40:43. > :40:43.
:40:43. > :40:47.from the Government. The definition of superfast fast is slow compared
:40:47. > :40:51.to others. I would argue we are not in a battle for survival against
:40:51. > :41:01.Europe, but against the rest of the planet. If I go to Hong Kong I get
:41:01. > :41:09.a big ga bit both ways to my hotel group. That is super-fast. People
:41:09. > :41:15.in the UK talk about 18-20 gigabits being superfast, and an awful lot
:41:15. > :41:20.of the time you get the magic words "up to". BT is pushing ahead with
:41:20. > :41:25.upgrading the backbone of its entire network with fibre, on top
:41:25. > :41:32.of existing copper connections, including a rural area like this
:41:32. > :41:36.near the Norfolk broords. We met a man in charge of broadband rollout
:41:36. > :41:43.at BT, Bill Murphy. We ask if his plan is ambitious enough? I think
:41:43. > :41:47.we are aiming high, Speeds have increased threefold in the last few
:41:47. > :41:51.years. We are second behind Japan in the G8 now. We believe the
:41:51. > :41:55.technology is good for today and will be upgradable in the furdure.
:41:55. > :42:01.We're delivering uploads speeds at 20-times faster than the old
:42:01. > :42:08.generation of technology, for the vast majority of consumers and fall
:42:08. > :42:12.businesses it will fit the bill. There could be another problem. The
:42:12. > :42:15.way we use computers is changing, more and more we are not storing
:42:15. > :42:20.data and software on our own computers but powerful remote
:42:21. > :42:25.servers in the cloud. That means we need to send and receive upload and
:42:25. > :42:30.download huge amounts of information. To do that we need
:42:30. > :42:33.broadband connections that are fast in both directions. The trouble is,
:42:33. > :42:37.that's not necessarily the system that's being rolled out.
:42:37. > :42:40.I don't think our politicians, I don't think our leaders actually
:42:40. > :42:47.understand what broadband means, because they don't actually use it.
:42:47. > :42:49.They think about downloading music, that is not the game. It is about
:42:50. > :42:54.the collaboration of machines and people and people with machines and
:42:54. > :43:00.to do that you need lots of bandwidth in both directions. So
:43:00. > :43:04.straight away we need bidirectional broadband, we have invested
:43:04. > :43:08.fundamentally in the wrong technology. We asked Ed Vaizey, the
:43:08. > :43:14.minister responsible for broadband if that's right? I'm not going to
:43:14. > :43:19.try and have an argument with the former chief technology officer of
:43:19. > :43:22.BT. But it is like an economist you talk to any number of them and they
:43:22. > :43:26.will still tell you there is a different way of doing it. It
:43:26. > :43:30.shouldn't be the Government who tell you what it is, if we put it
:43:30. > :43:36.on the table and we invited bids and we said emphatically that we
:43:36. > :43:42.would be technology-neutral. Malcolm Corbett represents some of
:43:42. > :43:50.BT's rivals, he works from home in not so rural Woolich in south lound
:43:50. > :43:56.done. One company is laying the gigabyte cable next to these flats.
:43:56. > :44:01.He says this should be happening more in the countryside. Some of
:44:01. > :44:05.the small working say they do their best to drum up business, and BT is
:44:05. > :44:10.using public money to cover the same territory. There is only a
:44:10. > :44:13.limited amount of tax-payers' money. If you have private sector funding
:44:13. > :44:17.or community fund anything the communities, why not spend the
:44:17. > :44:23.state funding elsewhere, why in the same place, it makes no sense.
:44:23. > :44:28.way contracts for the natural rural programme were set up from the
:44:28. > :44:30.outset meant many BT rivals felt they couldn't compete. He's
:44:30. > :44:32.concerned that County Councils spending the money don't always
:44:32. > :44:39.have all the information they need up front to make sure they are
:44:39. > :44:42.getting value for money. They have a composition of one
:44:42. > :44:46.which isn't a competition of one. In many cases they are not feeling
:44:46. > :44:56.they are getting the best value for money, but they can't do a lot
:44:56. > :45:24.
:45:24. > :45:28.The NAO said the Government plan is BT says it is not about unnecessary
:45:28. > :45:31.duplication, but about providing the most reliable services.
:45:32. > :45:36.Networks aren't for Christmas, you know, great enthusiasm, passion, I
:45:36. > :45:41.love it, but if at the end of the day anything can be built, can it
:45:41. > :45:48.be run or continually invested in. Can it offer a choice of supply.
:45:48. > :45:54.the Bond family farm, in Blowfield Norfolk, they grow herbs and other
:45:54. > :45:59.fresh produce, if they misan e-mail they can lose -- miss an e-mail
:45:59. > :46:05.they can lose orders. They turned to a small Wi-Fi broadband set up
:46:05. > :46:11.built around the local church. We were struckling to get to 0.5
:46:11. > :46:16.megabits of a second, that was useless. We went to Wire Spy who do
:46:16. > :46:20.a wireless connection, we are getting a usable and effective, not
:46:20. > :46:24.superfast but it is usable. People in the Westminster bubble, as it is
:46:24. > :46:28.called, don't appreciate what it is like to live in more rural areas
:46:28. > :46:35.and don't appreciate the lack of broadband and transport and
:46:35. > :46:40.everything else we struggle without here.
:46:40. > :46:44.Of course people in rural areas are utterly frustrated, the rise of
:46:44. > :46:48.broadband in the last ten years has been phenomenal in terms of
:46:48. > :46:55.people's need. That is why we put the programme in place. You can't
:46:55. > :47:00.wave a magic wound and it all sorts itself out, but we do have
:47:00. > :47:04.contracts signed and we are getting under way. In the end it is public
:47:04. > :47:07.money being spent to wire up rural communities, the Government will
:47:08. > :47:11.want to be certain this is used to provide as many people as possible
:47:11. > :47:15.with the best system it, as it strives to keep people in remote