:00:06. > :00:14.British capitalists for discriminating against British
:00:14. > :00:18.workers. The next it's praising them. Something got badly muddled
:00:18. > :00:26.when the party decided to try to make some noise on immigration and
:00:26. > :00:29.employment today. But behind the confusion has something gone badly
:00:29. > :00:34.wrong in the work place? Why can't young British people compete for
:00:34. > :00:39.jobs? They are taken up by foreigners who don't belong in this
:00:39. > :00:43.country, but we are wrong if we say anything about it.
:00:43. > :00:47.And then... We travel through Africa with
:00:47. > :00:55.Clinton senior and junior and find a former president who has decided to
:00:55. > :00:59.put his failure to prevent genocide in Rwanda behind him. Whatever guilt
:00:59. > :01:02.I had was taken away when I took responsibility for not helping them.
:01:02. > :01:05.And as Liverpool's most golden player rattles the golden chains
:01:06. > :01:15.which have kept him at the club, what's happened to the idea of
:01:16. > :01:19.
:01:19. > :01:23.loyalty? We'll discuss whether that There are few more enjoyable
:01:23. > :01:26.spectacles in politics than watching people eat their own words. The
:01:26. > :01:29.Shadow Immigration Minister, Chris Bryant, tried another tack today,
:01:29. > :01:36.eating some of his words, and denying he'd ever planned to say
:01:36. > :01:39.others. By some freak of telepathy or clairvoyancy, newspaper reports
:01:39. > :01:47.had got him saying things he didn't believe about British employers and
:01:47. > :01:52.their alleged predilection for giving jobs to foreigners. But was
:01:52. > :01:54.he really onto something in the speech he didn't make? As Sancha
:01:54. > :01:58.Berg reports, it came after accusations that Labour wasn't
:01:59. > :02:04.making enough noise this summer. Over the last decade, the proportion
:02:04. > :02:08.of foreign born workers in Britain has increased by over 50%. Many
:02:08. > :02:13.migrant workers are in low skilled jobs. In many parts of the country
:02:13. > :02:18.now from the ago call turl east to the former industrial north-west.
:02:18. > :02:23.Surveys suggest for voters, immigration is a major concern.
:02:23. > :02:26.The Conservatives have taken the initiative. Most recently with
:02:26. > :02:31.controversial vans encouraging illegal migrants to leave. Coalition
:02:31. > :02:36.policies have cut net migration, but mostly for those from outside the
:02:36. > :02:41.European Union. Today, Labour outlined its own ideas. The Shadow
:02:41. > :02:46.Immigration Minister, Chris Bryant briefed newspapers over the weekend.
:02:46. > :02:50.Criticising Tesco and Next for hiring migrant workers. He accused
:02:50. > :02:55.Next of bringing Polish workers to Yorkshire because they were cheaper
:02:55. > :02:59.than the local workforce. Next denied that and the speech delivered
:02:59. > :03:04.was very different. The special ifk accusation dropped in favour of a
:03:04. > :03:08.general complaint. When agencies bring such a large number of workers
:03:08. > :03:12.of a specific nationality, at a time when there are one million young
:03:12. > :03:16.unemployed in Britain, it is right surely to ask why that is happening?
:03:16. > :03:22.It is not illegal for agencies to target foreign workers, but is it
:03:22. > :03:27.fair for them to be so exclusive? This is a former mining area. Nearly
:03:27. > :03:32.a quarter of young people are out of work here. Many are angry that Next
:03:32. > :03:36.brought in Polish workers and they complain that local young people had
:03:36. > :03:41.no chance to get the jobs. It is not easy. It is very
:03:41. > :03:45.difficult. You can't go to your Jobcentre. Most things are taken
:03:45. > :03:49.through agencies with the big companies that we have in the
:03:49. > :03:55.community mainly distribution. So it is not easy to get through to the
:03:55. > :03:59.companies themselves. You can get through internally, but not
:03:59. > :04:04.everybody is capable of doing that. You have to make contacts within the
:04:04. > :04:08.work forces. Next said it had not been able to recruit enough local
:04:08. > :04:12.people. Immigration is a tricky subject for the Labour Party. It
:04:12. > :04:17.was, of course, the last Labour Government which decided to allow
:04:17. > :04:19.Eastern Europeans to come and work freely here when their countries
:04:19. > :04:23.joined the European Union nine years ago, the Government predicted only a
:04:23. > :04:30.few thousand would come, but many hundreds of thousands made the
:04:30. > :04:32.journey and they are still coming. Research by the chart erd staot
:04:32. > :04:36.Chartered Institute for Personnel and Development suggests some
:04:36. > :04:42.employees are -- employers are recruiting migrant workers. We have
:04:42. > :04:45.seen a sharp increase in the number of EU workers. Many European
:04:45. > :04:55.economies are struggling. They have high areas of youth unemployment, we
:04:55. > :05:01.are seeing more applicants from the likes of Spain and Greece alongside
:05:01. > :05:04.Poland, but employers perceive migrant workers as having greater
:05:05. > :05:12.work ethic. More employers are asking mid-gropbt
:05:12. > :05:16.workers to help them recruit staff. What many were telling us if they
:05:16. > :05:19.value a of staff from Spain or Eastern Europe, they will offer a
:05:19. > :05:23.financial incentive for the employees to recruit a friend or
:05:23. > :05:28.relative. What that leads to is the development of a critical mass of
:05:28. > :05:32.not just migrant workers, but the migrant workers from narrow
:05:32. > :05:36.concentration of countries. Politicians might like to keep more
:05:36. > :05:41.British jobs for British work workers. In practise, lawyers say
:05:41. > :05:45.that's hard to do. Not without being discriminatory on the basis of
:05:45. > :05:49.nationality which is not legal in the UK. So in terms of European
:05:49. > :05:53.workers, they are entitled to work here and to live here. There isn't
:05:53. > :05:57.very much the Government can do in terms of trying to make employers
:05:57. > :06:00.hire British workers without running the risk they will be accused of
:06:00. > :06:08.being discriminatory. Any change would need fundamental
:06:08. > :06:18.reform and the agreement of all the other EU member states.
:06:18. > :06:21.
:06:21. > :06:31.programme. He turned down our invitation. How can we ensure our
:06:31. > :06:31.
:06:31. > :06:41.young people have the skills to compete in a global work face. With
:06:41. > :06:45.us is Kevin Green and Kate Robinson which looks to promote the role of
:06:45. > :06:52.young people in business. Is there a genuine problem here? I think that
:06:52. > :06:58.there is. I think there are a lot of great unsaids. Comments I heard
:06:58. > :07:04.today from some businesses, do young British people want the jobs on
:07:04. > :07:08.offer? I think that business can take up the role of offering better
:07:08. > :07:13.training. Kevin and I were discussing that businesses can make
:07:13. > :07:18.job paths clearer. To make the jobs seem more desirable and I think
:07:18. > :07:22.businesses are not making clear as Tesco and Next did not make clear
:07:22. > :07:28.today what percentage of their workforce are from outside the
:07:28. > :07:32.country and actually give the lie to what was being said about them and
:07:32. > :07:36.clarity about the rhetoric... is a lot of opaqueness here, isn't
:07:36. > :07:41.there? And there doesn't need to be. You accept that? There is a question
:07:41. > :07:44.about the data and again in terms of Mr Bryant's speech today, there was
:07:44. > :07:49.lots of rhetoric and no data and no evidence and the employers that
:07:49. > :07:55.presented it were saying there was a small percentage without being
:07:55. > :07:58.specific. Do you think that British employers have a moral
:07:58. > :08:02.responsibility to employ British workers? I am not sure they do. They
:08:03. > :08:08.have a moral responsibility to do the right thing for their showeders
:08:08. > :08:11.and they operate in a community -- share Holders and they operate in a
:08:11. > :08:15.community. Those people that work in the local community are customers as
:08:15. > :08:19.well. Clearly, it is in their best interests to employ as many local
:08:19. > :08:21.people as possible. Moral question, no? Just a practical
:08:21. > :08:25.question. It is about being part of a
:08:25. > :08:29.community and operating within that community. No, I think that self
:08:29. > :08:34.interest now for business is about the moral responsibility and I think
:08:34. > :08:39.many of the big British businesses see that. Yes, they have got a duty
:08:39. > :08:44.to share Holders, but feel feel strongly they have a duty to their
:08:44. > :08:47.country and their community. They are seeing a moral responsibility.
:08:47. > :08:51.Kevin, there is a real sea change in business in the last couple of
:08:51. > :08:54.years. They have got to function, operate,
:08:54. > :08:58.within the communities they work in. If they can't find workers, they
:08:58. > :09:01.advertise the jobs locally, for young people, for people from the
:09:01. > :09:06.local community, they can't find people to do the jobs, clearly, they
:09:06. > :09:10.have a right to fin the labour elsewhere. Isn't that part of
:09:10. > :09:14.working across the EU we have open labour markets? Well, they are
:09:14. > :09:16.required. They have a legal obligation, don't they? A legal
:09:16. > :09:21.obligation to treat everybody the same.
:09:21. > :09:26.Is there a problem with British young people now? That's what I was
:09:26. > :09:31.alluding to earlier, there is some sweeping brush statements about that
:09:31. > :09:35.that say some young British workers don't want jobs as shelf stackers,
:09:35. > :09:39.yeah. There is a question over that. I don't want to make an assumption
:09:39. > :09:45.about that, but there are questions raised about that. Some cousins from
:09:45. > :09:49.the EU would take jobs that young Brits wouldn't take. So I think the
:09:49. > :09:56.onus falls back on business to explain the value of those jobs.
:09:56. > :10:00.Many of the big CEOs today were shelf stackers stackers in their
:10:00. > :10:04.youth and to ask business to take on to itself what are the issues why
:10:04. > :10:08.are young Brits not taking a the jobs? If it is the case, but as we
:10:08. > :10:15.were saying earlier, let's have the numbers. I would has at a guess, but
:10:15. > :10:19.I don't have as Kevin was saying, I don't have the exact data.
:10:19. > :10:24.Is there something wrong with the education system then? I think there
:10:24. > :10:28.is actually. We the aren't getting the message across, at the beginning
:10:28. > :10:33.of your career, it is good to get employment. It is good to get work
:10:33. > :10:38.experience on your CV. If you want to be a biochemist or a media
:10:38. > :10:42.presenter whatever you want to be, early in your career getting work
:10:42. > :10:45.experience is good news and the aspirations are too far in advance
:10:45. > :10:49.of the practicalities of what's available in the labour market.
:10:49. > :10:53.There is a big assumption being made and we are all making it and it is
:10:53. > :10:58.that unemployment is by choice, that's effectively what each of us
:10:58. > :11:04.is saying that young people are choosing not to do these jobs, is
:11:04. > :11:08.that the case? I think there is some evidence it to -- evidence to
:11:08. > :11:12.support that. There is recruiters up and down the UK, sometimes you have
:11:12. > :11:15.got areas of high unemployment, and you are spies advertising jobs and
:11:15. > :11:20.you can't get people in the local community, young people or older
:11:20. > :11:23.people to take the jobs. Partly because it is a benefits
:11:23. > :11:28.trap. OK, benefits. We are back to
:11:28. > :11:31.benefits. What's to be done then? Are you saying cut benefits Fa you
:11:31. > :11:36.have got to make work pay and the other thing is about aspirations. We
:11:36. > :11:39.have got to sell the point that Kate was making, we have got to sell
:11:40. > :11:44.employment, the opportunities to get the first foot on the ladder and see
:11:44. > :11:47.any employment as a stepping stone to another job. We have got to be
:11:47. > :11:50.positive and employers have an onus to be able to community wait with
:11:50. > :11:57.our communities. Foreigners coming in and being
:11:57. > :11:59.prepared to do the job for less money, and less security... Again
:11:59. > :12:04.anecdotal. There is lots of employment
:12:04. > :12:07.legislation. Most of the people who come in will be paid the same as a
:12:07. > :12:11.UK worker. National minimum wage applies.
:12:11. > :12:16.Well, you have heard the anecdotes. That means the employers are
:12:16. > :12:20.breaking the rules. I don't believe many employers are breaking the
:12:20. > :12:24.rules by bringing in workers who are paid less than UK workers.
:12:24. > :12:28.What do you want to do? My concern is youth unemployment and we have
:12:28. > :12:36.discussed that on your programme before. That's rising and that's a
:12:36. > :12:41.concern. The issue is the so-called NEATs and my experience since the
:12:41. > :12:46.World Economic Forum in January, every British CEO I speak to has
:12:46. > :12:50.taken up the challenge of getting the NEATs into employment. We are
:12:50. > :12:54.trying to make sure we get skills taught today for the jobs for
:12:54. > :12:58.tomorrow. We're trying to bring them in. We're trying to change the way
:12:58. > :13:02.we advertise lower paid jobs or the lower rungs, trying to package it
:13:02. > :13:04.differently and I really feel strongly that British business has
:13:04. > :13:11.taken up the challenge and we are making the difference.
:13:11. > :13:14.It is not working. A lot of it is about SMEs. Small employer who
:13:14. > :13:20.haven't taken the big message and if you think about the Government's
:13:20. > :13:24.role, the youth contract, no employers are aware of the youth
:13:24. > :13:28.contract which is the incentive to take on a young person. A great
:13:28. > :13:31.scheme. A great idea, but no employer has heard of it. The work
:13:31. > :13:36.programme which isn't really working on the grown. There are schemes, but
:13:36. > :13:40.they are not really matching employers expectations with what the
:13:40. > :13:43.skills of the young people. Clearly, there is a bit about Government
:13:43. > :13:45.playing a more active role and education is going in the wrong
:13:45. > :13:50.direction. The work experience has been taken out of the curriculum and
:13:50. > :13:56.careers advice is appalling in our schools. We have got to do a lot
:13:56. > :13:59.about change changing education. What's deadly? Careers advice in the
:13:59. > :14:04.schools is not where it needs to be. There is a lot more that we can do
:14:04. > :14:10.about that. My point about the shelf stacking job that becomes the CEO of
:14:10. > :14:14.the company. That may sound like a myth, it is not. It is a proven
:14:15. > :14:18.thing. There is a an issue that we can do more about in which what we
:14:18. > :14:23.view our generation we call IT training. There is a lot more we can
:14:23. > :14:27.do about that and do it faster. There are great initiatives like
:14:27. > :14:31.Tech City. There is a lot going on in some schools particularly London
:14:32. > :14:34.and it is needed throughout the country. There is a lot we can, but
:14:35. > :14:38.what your point about earlier, it is not working. Yes, it is working. It
:14:38. > :14:46.is a problem we are starting to address and those numbers are coming
:14:46. > :14:56.down. We are making a difference. OK, thank you very much indeed.
:14:56. > :15:00.
:15:00. > :15:03.An African reanywaysons. Reanywaysons you may perhaps, recall
:15:03. > :15:07.the expression used by the then president of the United States, Bill
:15:07. > :15:11.Clinton, to describe the future he hoped for that continent. , It was
:15:11. > :15:13.15 years ago that he set off on the longest visit ever undertaken by a
:15:13. > :15:16.serving President. His interest in Africa outlasted his presidency and
:15:16. > :15:19.the Clinton Foundation has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for
:15:19. > :15:23.numerous projects across Africa. He's just been back there and Komla
:15:23. > :15:32.Dumor of BBC World News joined him to see if the Renaissance ever
:15:32. > :15:38.happened. S, has been over ten years since he left office, but his
:15:38. > :15:43.engagement in global affairs shows no sign of abating.
:15:43. > :15:47.After leavering the White House, he established the Clint Clinton Global
:15:47. > :15:52.Initiative. He is raising hundreds of millions of dollars from private
:15:52. > :15:57.donors and corporations tos fight HIV and AIDS and stamp out malaria
:15:57. > :16:07.and provide healthcare centres in communities across the world and
:16:07. > :16:08.
:16:08. > :16:18.especially in Africa. But what role does fill philanthropy
:16:18. > :16:20.
:16:20. > :16:24.play? At this event in Tanzania, President Clinton observed a
:16:24. > :16:30.demonstration on how a microfinance project helps local business women.
:16:30. > :16:34.It is backed by an international NGO in Barclays Bank. On paper, it works
:16:34. > :16:39.well. Women get small loans. They start a business. They feed their
:16:39. > :16:49.families. For all involved, it looks like a win, win situation and
:16:49. > :16:57.frankly, it is great PR. It is through initiatives like this
:16:57. > :17:00.that Bill Clinton think thinks that aid can be most effective. I hope
:17:00. > :17:05.other people will embrace it including governments or I can go
:17:05. > :17:13.out and do what I tried to do through the Global Initiative which
:17:13. > :17:18.is to get other partners and we have a huge, collective impact.
:17:18. > :17:24.But is this the best model or African development? The Continent
:17:24. > :17:29.has made progress in recent years, GDP growth in places like Tanzania
:17:29. > :17:38.and Ethiopia and Ghana has outstripped all of Europe's
:17:38. > :17:43.lethargic economies. An hour outside the capital, work is set to start
:17:43. > :17:51.that will transform these pristine beaches into one of the biggest
:17:51. > :17:56.ports Africa has ever seen. It is fundeds by $10 billion from China.
:17:56. > :18:03.We have beautiful shores. We lose the beauty of the place itself. The
:18:03. > :18:08.people who are living here, but in another side, if you take on the
:18:08. > :18:12.aspect of the economic, we need to have this park. We need it because
:18:12. > :18:20.it is going to boost the economy of the country.
:18:20. > :18:25.What is happening here is being replicated across the Continent.
:18:25. > :18:29.China has overtaken America as Africa's biggest trading partner.
:18:29. > :18:36.Clinton concedes in almost every area of engagement, America is
:18:36. > :18:39.playing catch-up. I don't believe that we spend enough money on basic
:18:39. > :18:47.infrastructure in our aid programme. I don't believe we spend enough
:18:47. > :18:51.money on basic economic growth initiatives. So I won't argue that
:18:51. > :18:56.the Chinese are going to get a lot of goodwill. I don't necessarily
:18:56. > :19:01.think it is a bad thing for America if African countries appreciate
:19:01. > :19:05.both. What we try to do to help their kids stay alive and what the
:19:05. > :19:11.Chinese do to give them better infrastructure and I think that
:19:11. > :19:15.we've got to try and create a future that we can share with the Chinese
:19:15. > :19:19.and not one where everything has a zero sum game.
:19:19. > :19:26.That sounds very optimistic. You know what real politics is and how
:19:26. > :19:31.likely is that? More likely than you think. Look at the places where no
:19:31. > :19:37.matter how grateful people were to China for their investment, if they
:19:37. > :19:41.think they came in and employed too many Chinese workers and too few
:19:41. > :19:49.local workers, if they think the working people weren't treated well,
:19:49. > :19:54.if they think that the infrastructure was to prop up a
:19:54. > :19:58.Government that didn't have support. In the end, countries have to make
:19:58. > :20:02.their own future, if we are careful not to ask for too much and careful
:20:02. > :20:07.not to aclike we are trying to shape too much.
:20:07. > :20:12.Tie it it to Human Rights? No, I don't think that. It is a good think
:20:12. > :20:16.we stand up from Human Rights. What have we learned from the experiments
:20:16. > :20:26.from the Arab Spring? It is minority rights and individual rights, Human
:20:26. > :20:28.
:20:28. > :20:31.Rights, shared decision making and so I think that we need to help
:20:31. > :20:36.other countries and empower people around the world because it is the
:20:36. > :20:41.right thing to do. There are many who feel that China
:20:41. > :20:45.has advanced its interests in Africa because it is willing to ig near I
:20:45. > :20:55.shall issues of transparency and -- issues of transparency and Rightst
:20:55. > :21:05.Human Rights. Rwanda is our next destination and it is there the
:21:05. > :21:10.
:21:10. > :21:14.Clint Clinton Record demands the BLeuptd was the most powerful man in
:21:14. > :21:19.the -- Bill Clinton was the most powerful man in the world. There was
:21:19. > :21:29.no intervention from America or anyone else.
:21:29. > :21:33.
:21:33. > :21:37.Over a million people were slaughtered. Ple were slaughtered.
:21:37. > :21:41.Isn't that sense of responsibility at the time it happened, you were
:21:41. > :21:48.president that connects you or drives the position that you have?
:21:48. > :21:52.Maybe. Maybe. Guilt?Not guilty because whatever guilt I had went
:21:52. > :22:00.away when I took responsibility for not helping them. I remember in 2001
:22:00. > :22:05.when I went back to Rwanda for the second time, a reporter was riding
:22:05. > :22:10.in the streets with a taxi driver and he said, " Aren't you made that
:22:10. > :22:20.Bill Clinton is here working on aid and all this stuff?" He said, " No,
:22:20. > :22:22.
:22:22. > :22:28.I'm not." The reporter said, " Why?" He said" he didn't make us kill each
:22:28. > :22:34.other. And then he said secondly, at least he said I'm sorry, nobody else
:22:34. > :22:37.apologised. To, Rwanda is one big biggest
:22:38. > :22:46.recipients of western aid and support from the Clinton Foundation,
:22:46. > :22:50.but progress has been blighted because of allegations of Human
:22:50. > :22:56.Rights abuses here and abroad. The president's Government has been
:22:56. > :23:02.accused of funding rebel movements in the neighbouring Democratic
:23:02. > :23:09.Republic of Congo. Rwanda denied any involvement across the border. It
:23:09. > :23:13.has its defenders, among them former British Prime Minister, Tony Blair.
:23:13. > :23:23.And Bill Clinton. I don't support the repression of journalists. I
:23:23. > :23:23.
:23:23. > :23:30.don't think Human Rights should be violated in the Congo. But I suppose
:23:30. > :23:34.I do make more allowances for a Government that has produced as much
:23:34. > :23:41.progress as that one has and has been well organised and otherwise
:23:42. > :23:49.had the rule of law so it is the way it is. There are very few situations
:23:49. > :23:52.are perfect. As the foundation expands its
:23:52. > :24:00.footprint and influence in Africa, another Clinton is taking a up a
:24:00. > :24:06.bigger role. Did I do OK?Chelsea Clinton sits on the foundation's
:24:07. > :24:10.board and at this project demonstrates how simple
:24:10. > :24:15.interventions can provide clean water in poor communities. I think
:24:15. > :24:20.the Met trick of success in your life really matters and as much as I
:24:21. > :24:26.loved solving a problem and when I worked on Wall Street, seeing I was
:24:26. > :24:33.right, an investment idea, I didn't ultimately want to denominate my
:24:33. > :24:37.life in dollars, I wanted to denominate my life in the number of
:24:37. > :24:44.people I could help and empower to lead their own lives.
:24:44. > :24:49.You come from a very influential political din nast a, some would say
:24:49. > :24:54.-- dynasty. Why make that choice? Right now, I very much feel called
:24:54. > :24:59.to participate in the nonprofit sector. I also am grateful to live
:24:59. > :25:04.in a city and a state and a country where I really believe in my elected
:25:04. > :25:08.representatives. If one of those changed, and I thought I could make
:25:09. > :25:14.more of a difference in a public sector capacity or if I no longer
:25:14. > :25:19.lived in a city, in a State, in a country where I really believed in
:25:19. > :25:23.both kind of the ethics and the competencies of my political leaders
:25:23. > :25:28.then I would have to ask myself honestly whether or not that would
:25:28. > :25:36.be a better path. But the politics has already
:25:36. > :25:40.changed. Whereas the Clintons' are out to win heart and minds across
:25:40. > :25:44.Africa, the United States has already opened up a new and more
:25:44. > :25:49.dangerous phase of engagements with the Continent. Africa is one of the
:25:49. > :25:53.major fronts in the battle against international terrorism.
:25:53. > :25:56.We are in a very unstable period in the world. Particularly on the
:25:56. > :25:59.Continent. Many of the experts I've spoken to, link this directly to
:25:59. > :26:04.what happened in Libya. And the overthrow of Gaddafi. I heard
:26:04. > :26:10.experts say that Libya has now become the primary source of funding
:26:10. > :26:17.and for arms. For Al-Qaeda. Was it a mis mistake to overthrow Gaddafi in
:26:17. > :26:21.that manner? He was overthrown in no small measure, but a popular
:26:21. > :26:27.uprising that other countries supported. And gave them guns, gave
:26:27. > :26:31.rebels arms? Yes, but it wasn't a mistake to help them overthrow him
:26:31. > :26:36.without knowing what the outcome would be, I don't think so. Let's
:26:36. > :26:42.not forget, Gaddafi was no saint. He did one or two things that he had no
:26:42. > :26:48.business doing too. Isn't the instability we are seeing
:26:48. > :26:52.now, the arms are flowing from Libya into those places? Yes, but there
:26:52. > :27:00.were a lot of guns there that could be used and not just in Libya and
:27:00. > :27:07.other places, I think here is the flip side, you asked me about Human
:27:07. > :27:13.Rights and there is no question that the president can win a popular
:27:13. > :27:17.election with an overwhelming vote and then we say we should have let a
:27:17. > :27:22.proven Human Rights abuser and a man who blew up an aeroplane with a lot
:27:22. > :27:26.of innocent kids on it, stay as the ruler of Libya because we can't
:27:26. > :27:32.stand the chaos now that he has gone. It is a messy world we live
:27:32. > :27:39.in. There are no guarantees. Syria, what should America do?
:27:39. > :27:44.I think we are getting around to doing which is provide arms and
:27:44. > :27:53.other support, do it through the channel that we believe is by far
:27:53. > :27:57.the most truth worth worthy and hope for the best.
:27:57. > :28:04.The Syrians have not asked us to put boots on the ground. It may or may
:28:04. > :28:10.not work and there is no good choice there, but if Iran and Russia have
:28:10. > :28:15.made a choice then they have unleashed the Hezbollah forces to
:28:15. > :28:20.fight and that seems to have what turned the tide here. It is one of
:28:20. > :28:24.those things where it is better to get caught trying.
:28:24. > :28:31.Doing something is better than doing nothing? Not always, but in this
:28:31. > :28:36.case, when this is said and done, if we can ask ourselves how will we
:28:36. > :28:39.feel if Assad is replaced? How will we feel if he revales? In both
:28:40. > :28:43.cases, given the facts on the ground and what has occurred and the United
:28:43. > :28:50.States will feel better if we tried to create a constructive
:28:50. > :28:56.alternative. In Africa, there are challenges that
:28:56. > :29:00.remain which he feels need to be confronted. We had to feed seven
:29:00. > :29:05.billion people in the world today. We are going to have to feed nine
:29:05. > :29:09.billion by 2050. We have the global warming and climate change problems
:29:09. > :29:14.and we have an enormous number of people who live in countries that
:29:14. > :29:20.have lots of money, but can't feed themselves and their instinct is to
:29:20. > :29:24.say, " We should mechanise agriculture and throw small farmers
:29:24. > :29:28.off the land." If the population of the world continues to go up, people
:29:29. > :29:34.will take more things out of the ground. The problem is there has
:29:34. > :29:39.been too much corruption and who got to it what was done with the
:29:40. > :29:48.revenues? And I'm only too happy to clean that up. I will go and give a
:29:48. > :29:51.speech to this to Nigeria every year, but they are still going to
:29:51. > :29:55.take the stuff out of the ground. We need to set-up systems that work
:29:55. > :30:01.better to do that. I would happily spend a lot of the rest of my life
:30:01. > :30:05.doing that because it is a huge threat if it is done wrong and a
:30:05. > :30:10.huge opportunity if it is done right, but this farming thing I can
:30:10. > :30:15.have a real impact on. Increasing their incomes two and three and four
:30:15. > :30:20.and five-fold by doubling their yields more and cutting the cost of
:30:20. > :30:24.production. We can change the world here. You are very much in your post
:30:24. > :30:28.presidency, but inevitably people are still asking whether there is
:30:28. > :30:31.still a bit of Washington still left in you or whether there is still one
:30:31. > :30:39.more race to run and you know I have to ask that question. If I knew the
:30:39. > :30:43.answer, I wouldn't tell you. You don't know? I don't know. Look,
:30:43. > :30:48.I'm for whatever my life wants to do. I didn't know whether I had one
:30:48. > :30:53.more race left in my last time. I thought the president was getting a
:30:53. > :31:00.raw deal and I was able to help him. This is what my job is. I love this
:31:00. > :31:10.job. I love doing this foundation work. President Clinton, I am going
:31:10. > :31:22.
:31:22. > :31:26.to see you again. leave for Arsenal. He apparently
:31:26. > :31:30.can't wait to get away and Arsenal are said to have offered �40 million
:31:30. > :31:33.to prise him out of Liverpool's grasp and then Suarez is a man with
:31:33. > :31:37.a reputation for biting more than the hand that feeds him. But his
:31:38. > :31:41.behaviour does raise the question of what constitutes loyalty nowadays.
:31:41. > :31:43.Time was that when you mentioned a Bobby Charlton or a Stanley
:31:44. > :31:53.Matthews, a particular club came instantly to mind. Does loyalty
:31:54. > :31:55.
:31:55. > :31:58.matter any more? We sent Jake Morris to Liverpool to gauge opinion there.
:31:58. > :32:03.Back in the 70 it was all about the football. Now, it is about the
:32:03. > :32:07.money. Probably Luis Suarez is business to
:32:07. > :32:12.earn more money or go to a better team is the way he says it.
:32:12. > :32:18.Football is about money these days. I guess, you have got to get used to
:32:18. > :32:23.Ask football fans on Merseyside about loyalty and you will hear
:32:23. > :32:28.about money. Liverpool aren't alone among Britain's big clubs in trying
:32:28. > :32:32.to keep hold of a star player determined to depart irrespective of
:32:32. > :32:38.their contract having years to run, but no saga has been as acrimonious
:32:38. > :32:43.as that of Luis Suarez. It makes me feel disgraced. It is like you want
:32:43. > :32:49.to apologise to the fans and the club and the players. It makes me
:32:49. > :32:53.disgraced. Look what Liverpool has done. It is money, isn't it? I don't
:32:53. > :32:58.want thim to go because he is one of the best strikers in Europe, but if
:32:58. > :33:02.he wants to go and he doesn't want to play for the club. I would sooner
:33:02. > :33:05.have somebody who is half as talented as him who wants to play
:33:05. > :33:08.for the club and want to win things with the club than somebody who
:33:08. > :33:12.doesn't want to. Luis Suarez is accused of disloyalty
:33:12. > :33:16.to a club and to the supporters who stood by their player when
:33:16. > :33:20.football's authorities found him guilty of racist abuse and then of
:33:20. > :33:27.biting an opponent, but is such apparent disloyalty really that new?
:33:27. > :33:30.No, it isn't. Footballers wanted to leave football clubs for years. What
:33:30. > :33:33.tends to happen is footballers gravitate towards their level. The
:33:33. > :33:36.best footballers have always historically ended up at the best
:33:36. > :33:41.clubs. Should we be surprised? Has the game
:33:41. > :33:45.offered its players any loyalty in return?
:33:45. > :33:51.Harry brings him down and this time it is a penalty.
:33:51. > :34:00.Ian St John was one of the corner stones of what Bill Shankly did at
:34:00. > :34:10.Liverpool. He began to use St John less and less. He sold him. He moved
:34:10. > :34:13.
:34:13. > :34:20.him on to the first team and stopped speaking to him as regularly and
:34:20. > :34:25.this will always happen to footballers. With Luis Suarez
:34:25. > :34:31.receiving standing ovations at training sessions from Liverpool
:34:31. > :34:35.fans desperate to keep their star performerser can loyalty be evenly
:34:35. > :34:39.distributed? We asked followers from Everton for their observations?
:34:39. > :34:47.Amusing. You find it amusing? Very.Why?
:34:47. > :34:54.fact they love him so much and the way he is treating them. He spat his
:34:54. > :35:01.dummy out. My feeling is, he need - the club still want me. The fans are
:35:01. > :35:10.still supporting me. He should be saying to himself reality check. I'm
:35:10. > :35:14.staying where I am for the time being.
:35:14. > :35:19.Auto Because they know they have got you over a barrel. Because they know
:35:19. > :35:26.you are coming every Saturday, because they know they have you in
:35:26. > :35:30.that position, they are able to put prices up. One of the reasons why
:35:30. > :35:35.people grow resentful of footballers. I'm paying �50 a week
:35:35. > :35:38.to watch you and you can't do X. Can this loyalty take the supporters
:35:38. > :35:44.to breaking point? Could anything make a fan fall out of love with
:35:44. > :35:53.football? No. Not at all. Maybe winning, but that depends.
:35:53. > :35:56.With us now is the football writer and biographer of Sir Alex Ferguson,
:35:56. > :35:59.Patrick Barclay, Sky Andrew, a football agent who has represented a
:35:59. > :36:03.number of top international players, and former England player who was
:36:03. > :36:05.himself an idol of the Kop in his day, John Barnes. Is loyalty dead?
:36:05. > :36:13.Well, it depends on your interpretation of loyalty. If a
:36:13. > :36:19.player while he is at that club gives 100%. But we have seen it
:36:19. > :36:24.before and at Liverpool and Fernando Torres, if they believe a right move
:36:24. > :36:31.comes along, they will move. What do you think? I do, I have moved with
:36:31. > :36:35.the times on this. I agree with John's concept of portable loyalty.
:36:35. > :36:40.I think it is the best we can expect these days and Luis Suarez certainly
:36:40. > :36:45.while he has played, while he whats been every minute he is has been on
:36:45. > :36:53.the pitch for Liverpool and of course, he is often absent from the
:36:53. > :37:02.pitch due to cannibalism and various activities, but no, I mean, for
:37:02. > :37:09.every minute he plays, he has given value for money. I kind of, I do
:37:09. > :37:16.kind of believe that football in a sense isn't worth the kind of
:37:16. > :37:20.loyalty that we are talking about. That we... Do you buy this idea that
:37:20. > :37:27.players were more loyal to a particular club than they are now?
:37:27. > :37:32.think there are more opportunities for players. I think you can only
:37:32. > :37:37.define loyalty within the terms of a contract. A club may become more
:37:37. > :37:40.successful than a player. We can't stop looking outside the terms of
:37:40. > :37:44.the contracts because every player will stay at every club. A club
:37:44. > :37:52.would stand by the player and vice versa.
:37:52. > :37:59.Why are you saying, " I didn't understand it." The problem here I
:37:59. > :38:03.think is that football is asking for this. I am not talking about fans. I
:38:03. > :38:08.think there is an obligation on players. There is an obligation, I
:38:08. > :38:13.don't mind badge kissing as we call it, you know, this sort of rather
:38:13. > :38:17.fake loyalty that footballers give you in return for a big salary.
:38:17. > :38:21.Beating your breast and you know, when you score a goal and so on. I
:38:21. > :38:26.think that is OK, but the problem with football is the way it is
:38:26. > :38:32.administered. At the moment there are four candidates for Footballer
:38:32. > :38:37.of the Year, Robin van percent see, Wayne Rooney and low Luis Suarez and
:38:37. > :38:42.Gareth Bale. Three of those four, wets don't know where they are going
:38:42. > :38:47.to go. The fans have to take responsibility. What has happened?
:38:47. > :38:56.How have the fans got to take responsibility? They have empowered
:38:56. > :39:00.certain players over other players. We have put players on pedestals.
:39:00. > :39:05.Once players start to believe they are better than their team-mates, we
:39:05. > :39:13.have made them feel they are more important than their club. Some are
:39:13. > :39:18.better. They are not better than their team-mates or their clubs. In
:39:18. > :39:23.terms of what they feel, they cannot win a game by themselves. So...
:39:23. > :39:27.What's going on with players, they believe that they can never win. If
:39:27. > :39:31.they honour their contract and leave, they get stick. If they leave
:39:31. > :39:35.whilst under contract they get stick. There is a belief amongst
:39:35. > :39:38.players unless you become a bad player or don't perform, you are
:39:38. > :39:42.going to get stick. I am sorry to be blunt about this,
:39:42. > :39:47.but aren't you part of the problem? Well, some agents are part of the
:39:47. > :39:52.problem, not me! The bottom line is this, there has to be a clear
:39:52. > :39:55.message given to players. If you honour contract and you have got
:39:55. > :40:02.value and you leave, no problem. That message has to go to the
:40:02. > :40:06.players. If the players believe no matter what they do, they will get
:40:06. > :40:10.criticised. The problem isn't Sky and descent
:40:10. > :40:14.agents who do a descent job for their players. The football problem
:40:14. > :40:19.is football gives this key part of the season, the first month of it,
:40:19. > :40:24.to the agent profession and says, " You run football." It is all of
:40:24. > :40:28.this, all of this business should have been done in the summer. We
:40:28. > :40:33.should be, instead of talking about this, we should be talking about who
:40:33. > :40:40.is going to win the Championship. This is what we talk about. The
:40:40. > :40:43.mentality of the players. Why does Luis Suarez feel that he is more
:40:43. > :40:50.important than his team-mates by saying I want to go to a better
:40:50. > :40:57.club? Regardless of whether he scored 30 goals or not. How can we
:40:57. > :41:02.blame a young man with a limited career expectancy? I see don't blame
:41:02. > :41:06.him. I am talking about the way he is going about it. When we played, I
:41:06. > :41:12.hate going back to my day, however, if the team didn't win or do well,
:41:12. > :41:16.the big players would get the blame. They would say John Barnes didn't
:41:16. > :41:21.play well and I would take responsibility. If a big player,
:41:21. > :41:27.Luis Suarez, Torres, Rooney, when the team doesn't win, they don't
:41:27. > :41:35.blame them. They win their team myths. Do I recall, weren't you at
:41:35. > :41:40.Watford before you were at Liverpool? Yes. Brian Robson never
:41:40. > :41:45.left Manchester United to go to Liverpool. It was accepted you were
:41:45. > :41:49.going there to improve your game and you went with the good wishes of the
:41:49. > :41:54.people. What you didn't do is what Luis Suarez is doing and I am not
:41:54. > :41:59.saying he is in the wrong here, but what you didn't do is offer a
:41:59. > :42:06.different cock-and-bull story every day! You didn't get big players
:42:06. > :42:11.leaving to go to other clubs. You were honest about it. Can I get a
:42:11. > :42:16.word in? The fans thought OK, fine, he wants to go and better himself.
:42:16. > :42:20.Players have been advised by people sometimes with ulterior motives and
:42:20. > :42:22.players can only react to the advice they are getting behind the scenes.
:42:22. > :42:29.Often the fans don't know what's going on behind the scenes, all they
:42:29. > :42:34.see is the headlines. Is this specific to English or
:42:34. > :42:40.British football this? Is this a problem that exists across Europe?
:42:40. > :42:44.What it is is that we have, we have the issue let's call it of a lot of
:42:44. > :42:47.top foreign players coming to the Premier League and they don't have
:42:47. > :42:52.the same affinity with football teams as the British players do. If
:42:52. > :42:56.they come to this country and do well... Rooney and Bale understand
:42:56. > :43:02.this surely. That's a small percentage of
:43:02. > :43:07.players. Players will come here and think, " I can get a better club."
:43:07. > :43:11.You can't can't that player have at same affinity.
:43:11. > :43:16.You expect Rooney and Bale? Those situations are different to Luis
:43:16. > :43:21.Suarez. In Europe, Italy and Germany, players have always left
:43:21. > :43:26.top clubs to go to other clubs and the fans accept that. In England, we
:43:27. > :43:29.like to feel we own our players. In Europe, it is accepted for big
:43:29. > :43:33.players to go to other clubs. So therefore, what has to happen in
:43:33. > :43:38.this country is that players have to come up with excuses why they want
:43:38. > :43:43.to leave, restaurants, the wife can't settle. It is mainly to do
:43:43. > :43:49.with money! You will You will accept it if a player doesn't sign a new
:43:49. > :43:52.contract. What the fans don't like is players sign new contracts and
:43:52. > :43:56.accept huge rises and say they want to leave. That adds Morag knee to
:43:56. > :44:01.the fans and they are like, " You have signed a new contract you are
:44:01. > :44:06.going to stay and." A year later they want to leave.
:44:06. > :44:11.You imagine that a contract that ran for three or four years made the
:44:11. > :44:15.club powerful, it makes the player powerful? The fact is if a
:44:15. > :44:20.footballer is under contract, the club don't have to sell him if he
:44:20. > :44:26.lass three or four years left. If a player has two years left, maybe he
:44:26. > :44:33.has power, but not when he has three or four years left. Once the
:44:33. > :44:39.transfer window window ends, he has to pull on his shirt.
:44:39. > :44:42.The money supply is rocketing obscenely because of the medium in
:44:42. > :44:49.which we are talking now. I wish somebody would find something else
:44:49. > :44:54.to put on the TV. Ridiculous amounts of money are poured into football.
:44:54. > :44:58.That produces, all of this money pouring in and there still aren't
:44:58. > :45:05.enough good players to go around and therefore, the money is going up all
:45:05. > :45:09.the time and... One constructive idea from you John Barnes? One year
:45:09. > :45:12.contracts. Quickly, quickly? Fans have to stop
:45:12. > :45:19.empowering players. Have one year contracts.
:45:19. > :45:25.Fans have to give a clear message to players, honour your contracts.
:45:25. > :45:28.The Financial Times has news that The Financial Times has news that
:45:28. > :45:32.BlackBerry is being put up for sale. More and more people are trusting
:45:32. > :45:36.the Tories on management of the economy. The Times has pictures of
:45:36. > :45:40.the England cricket team and the same or a similar picture on the
:45:40. > :45:45.front of the Daily Telegraph. And there is a nice picture of that nice
:45:45. > :45:51.Mr Mugabe on the front of the Independent.
:45:51. > :45:54.That's all for tonight. You may have seen that Norwegian Prime Minister
:45:54. > :45:59.has taken to incognito taxi-driving, to try to find out what his people
:45:59. > :46:04.are really thinking. He's not the only politician accused of getting
:46:04. > :46:14.out of touch, of course. Maybe he's out of touch, of course. Maybe he's
:46:14. > :46:37.
:46:37. > :46:39.The weather is staying changeable. We have got thicker cloud across
:46:39. > :46:43.Northern Ireland, Wales and the Midlands throughout the day on
:46:43. > :46:46.Tuesday. To the north of that, a mixture of sunshine and showers and
:46:46. > :46:49.clouding over come the afternoon to the south. So for Northern Ireland,
:46:49. > :46:53.perhaps better prospects for the afternoon in terms of seeing
:46:53. > :46:57.sunshine. Although, there is sunshine for Scotland, we have to
:46:57. > :47:01.cater for fairly light and well scattered showers with highs through
:47:01. > :47:06.the Central Lowlands of 17 Celsius. Across Northern England, cloudy
:47:06. > :47:10.throughout the afternoon. There will be some patchy and light rain moving
:47:10. > :47:13.through the East Midlands and into East Anglia. Not much of the rain
:47:13. > :47:16.reaching the South East corner, but after a sunny start, it will
:47:16. > :47:21.abcloudier afternoon. Still breaks in the cloud for south-west England.
:47:21. > :47:24.So sunshine to finish off the day on Tuesday with highs of 19 Celsius.
:47:24. > :47:28.For Wales as well, things brightening up, but still perhaps a
:47:28. > :47:33.few showers dotted around here and there. Looking at some cities
:47:33. > :47:36.throughout the day on Tuesday and Wednesday. After sunshine for
:47:36. > :47:41.Inverness and Edinburgh, Wednesday at the moment does look like it
:47:41. > :47:45.could be cloudier and we are keeping some cloudy skies on Tuesday and
:47:46. > :47:48.Wednesday further south. Along with the cloud across western areas on