:00:08. > :00:14.After the shooting, now the coffins, Egypt counted its dead today, some
:00:15. > :00:21.600 officially, but the true number may be higher. Egypt's ambassador to
:00:21. > :00:22.the UN denied it's a massacre. What happened yesterday was
:00:22. > :00:26.the UN denied it's a massacre. What according to the law. And we ask the
:00:26. > :00:32.US Government and Senator John McCain how bad things have to get
:00:32. > :00:36.before they cut military aid. It's unbelievable. You can actually
:00:36. > :00:40.go through that much money, £1,000 in five, ten minutes. Also, they've
:00:41. > :00:44.been called the crack cocaine of gambling, so why are these machines
:00:44. > :00:49.allowed? More of these being built at any time now than for four years,
:00:49. > :00:56.so is that the housing crisis over then? And, recognise this? You
:00:56. > :01:00.shouldn't. It's only just been discovered hiding in the an Dean
:01:00. > :01:02.cloud forests. We talk to the man who winkled it out and debate
:01:02. > :01:15.Darwinism with a few of its friends. Good evening. Tonight, all seems
:01:15. > :01:18.quiet in Cairo, the product of an enforced curfew that shouldn't be
:01:18. > :01:22.mistaken for calm. The official death toll from what looks to many a
:01:23. > :01:27.massacre has been put at over 600. The Muslim Brotherhood believe to it
:01:27. > :01:30.be in the thousands. This evening, Egypt's Interior Ministry authorised
:01:30. > :01:34.the use of deadly force against protesters targeting state
:01:34. > :01:37.institutions. Earlier, President Obama cancelled military exercises
:01:37. > :01:41.with Egypt but stopped short of suspending more than a billion
:01:41. > :01:45.dollars of aid. We'll hear from the US State Department in a moment and
:01:45. > :01:49.go live to John McCain. First, the events of the day.
:01:49. > :01:54.An Islamist dream reduced to a events of the day.
:01:54. > :01:59.smouldering ruin. A day after the killings around the
:01:59. > :02:02.mosque in Cairo, they've been clearing away all traces of the
:02:02. > :02:07.Muslim Brotherhood's protest camp, the movement's last symbolic toe
:02:07. > :02:14.hold in a country ruled for a year until it was deposed six weeks ago.
:02:14. > :02:16.At the morgue, there was chaos, as families struggled to claim their
:02:16. > :02:20.dead. TRANSLATION: My son was in a
:02:20. > :02:25.peaceful sit-in, defending his cause and his vote, defending freedom.
:02:25. > :02:30.They shot him with a bullet in his heart. The military and the police
:02:30. > :02:36.station snipers on the rooves of the buildings and shot him in the heart.
:02:36. > :02:41.525 are now officially said to have been killed yesterday, some members
:02:41. > :02:43.of the Security Forces, but the vast majority are Muslim Brotherhood
:02:43. > :02:49.supporters. Today, the police were also burying
:02:49. > :02:53.their dead. But in grander fashion. The Security Forces are now the real
:02:53. > :02:57.power in the land, stronger perhaps than they were even in the police
:02:57. > :03:04.states that were supposedly overthrown in the revolution against
:03:04. > :03:08.President Mubarak two years ago. Pf It was committed inside prison walls
:03:09. > :03:13.but were not committed publicly in front of the whole world with them
:03:13. > :03:18.watching. It's a very, very dangerous phase in Egypt's history.
:03:18. > :03:22.Today, a Government building in Cairo was set on fire by brotherhood
:03:22. > :03:27.supporters and the movement expressed fury at the bloodshed
:03:27. > :03:32.yesterday in a march through the streets of Alexandria. Anger beyond
:03:32. > :03:36.control. We can't predict what will happen. We will call for peaceful
:03:36. > :03:41.sit-ins, keep demanding for our rights and our President to come
:03:41. > :03:46.back who symbolises our democracy. We like to call for the
:03:46. > :03:48.constitution, but we cannot control everyone. So what will the
:03:48. > :03:53.Brotherhood, one of the most everyone. So what will the
:03:53. > :03:57.influential Islamic organisations of these times do now? It was
:03:57. > :04:01.overthrown after massive protests accused it of using power only in
:04:01. > :04:05.its own interests, not that of Egypt. Some fear there may be a
:04:06. > :04:10.return to the repression it suffered in the '50s and again periodically
:04:10. > :04:14.throughout the following 60 years of dictatorship. The repreingts
:04:14. > :04:17.convinced one brotherhood thinker that Islamists should use physical
:04:17. > :04:23.power, as well as peaceful means to change society. The movement's
:04:23. > :04:38.leaders rejected that view and still reject it, but puts militant groups
:04:38. > :04:44.such as Al-Qaeda in focus. It was as a result of the torture of
:04:44. > :04:49.brotherhood members in automatic's prisons, in fact in the same prison
:04:49. > :05:01.I was held in as a political prisoner, where there was a tortured
:05:01. > :05:04.person who broke away from the brotherhood idealogy and made the
:05:04. > :05:09.terrorist theory. What is the danger today? We are back almost to square
:05:09. > :05:14.one where we have the same emergency law that's been brought in. We've
:05:14. > :05:18.got almost the perfect motive for the Islamists which is, technically
:05:18. > :05:21.we won an election and we were ousted so why should we try
:05:21. > :05:27.democracy again? Islamist violence has already been spreading in the
:05:27. > :05:31.north of the peninsula in Sinai where a church was burned yesterday
:05:31. > :05:35.and seven soldiers killed today and something this week's events in
:05:35. > :05:38.Egypt will convince Islamists worldwide that they can't trust
:05:38. > :05:43.democracy. That mess edge was heard loud and
:05:43. > :05:48.clear in Libya, Syria and Yemen -- message. There, there was some kind
:05:48. > :05:54.of groups operating in the field and I think they are thinking about the
:05:54. > :05:59.whole idea of the demoralisation, the reintegration would be very
:05:59. > :06:05.difficult in Yemen and Syria. More so, the elected Islamists in
:06:05. > :06:11.Tunisia, or even in Turkey, get a lesson that you have to have your
:06:11. > :06:17.loyalists in the institution. America's long helped subsidise the
:06:17. > :06:18.Egyptian Army, but President Obama tried to signal that that support
:06:18. > :06:22.was not unconditional. Our tried to signal that that support
:06:22. > :06:25.traditional cooperation cannot continue as usual when civilians are
:06:25. > :06:30.being killed in the streets and rights are being rolled back. As a
:06:30. > :06:35.result, this morning, we notified the Egyptian government that we are
:06:35. > :06:38.cancelling our biannual joint military exercise which was
:06:38. > :06:40.scheduled for next month. Going forward, I've asked the national
:06:40. > :06:44.security team to assess the implications of the actions taken by
:06:44. > :06:48.the interim government. But the Security Forces returned to the
:06:48. > :06:52.streets after the overthrow of the brotherhood and is still supported
:06:52. > :06:58.by millions in Egypt, even by many of those who condemn the bloodshed
:06:58. > :07:02.yesterday. I'm more convinced that what happened in June 13 had to
:07:02. > :07:04.happen and that we were dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood who has no
:07:04. > :07:07.sense of responsibility towards the nation as a whole. Of course I
:07:07. > :07:11.condemn the violence that occurred yesterday that led to the death of
:07:11. > :07:15.hundreds of innocent Egyptians, but there's no way to deny the
:07:15. > :07:18.responsibility of the Muslim Brotherhood group in inciting its
:07:18. > :07:22.members over the past 48 days to block major roads in Cairo, to
:07:22. > :07:26.attack ministries and police stations.
:07:26. > :07:29.There's little sign yet of compromise on either side in Egypt.
:07:29. > :07:35.Tonight, violence was continuing on the streets of Alexandria and the
:07:35. > :07:39.memory of yesterday's bloodshed will inflame the country's politics for
:07:39. > :07:42.years to come. Tonight, the UN Security Council is holding a
:07:42. > :07:47.meeting to discuss the situation in Egypt. Earlier, I spoke to the
:07:47. > :07:50.Egyptian ambassador to the UN, Wafer Bassim and asked her whether
:07:50. > :07:57.yesterday's events constituted a massacre?
:07:57. > :08:02.No. I don't accept this statement. Not only as an official of the
:08:02. > :08:09.Egyptian government, but as an Egyptian citizen, like millions who
:08:09. > :08:17.are dead in Egypt, what happened yesterday was done according to the
:08:17. > :08:22.law. After several attempts to break down the sit-ins, that we are sort
:08:22. > :08:28.of paralysing the lives of millions of Egyptians in Giza and Cairo. You
:08:28. > :08:32.call this a peaceful break up of protests. It left between 500 and
:08:32. > :08:37.call this a peaceful break up of 600 dead. That's from all sides.
:08:37. > :08:50.That is from the north of the country to the south, due to all
:08:50. > :08:55.violent acts that where the reaction on the part of those who're sitting
:08:55. > :08:58.in. Do you really believe that? Not many people seem to believe that it
:08:58. > :09:01.was anything other than the actions of the interim government and their
:09:01. > :09:10.Security Forces that brought about yesterday's events?
:09:10. > :09:16.Everybody has seen the gradual trials and attempts to break down
:09:17. > :09:24.the sit-ins, starting by warnings by microphones showing the sit-ins that
:09:24. > :09:31.the way to a safe corridor to get out with their own win, with the
:09:31. > :09:39.promise of not being arrested or harassed, then there were the tear
:09:39. > :09:45.gas and the water cannons incidents. When they started by shoot shooting
:09:45. > :09:57.live ammunitions toward the police security, the police had to use
:09:57. > :09:59.things, but not live munitions. Your minister has instructed the police
:10:00. > :10:08.to use live mew mission on attacks minister has instructed the police
:10:08. > :10:12.-- munitions on government buildings. Do you think that's
:10:12. > :10:17.right? He ordered this after 30 churches have been burned down and
:10:17. > :10:24.after all the losses of life we are seeing today. He ordered that and to
:10:24. > :10:29.the restricted possible measure, the use of live ammunitions. Your close
:10:29. > :10:32.the restricted possible measure, the allie, President Obama, has said
:10:32. > :10:36.today that Egypt is on a dangerous path. He has, as you know, cancelled
:10:36. > :10:45.military operations with your country. Does that matter? Of course
:10:45. > :10:52.it matters. But what matters is not the judgment that he came and others
:10:52. > :10:59.came out with. What matters for us is the lack of understanding of the
:10:59. > :11:08.whole situation and of the escalation of a very difficult act
:11:08. > :11:15.on the part of a certain political current that is using religion to
:11:15. > :11:20.achieve political aims during the last six weeks at least.
:11:20. > :11:22.Ambassador Bassim, thank you very much indeed.
:11:22. > :11:28.I thank you. I spoke to the US State Department
:11:28. > :11:31.next and asked Maria Harff if she wished America's response had been
:11:32. > :11:35.stronger when the coup took place on Morsi six weeks ago? We have been
:11:35. > :11:40.clear from the beginning that we had serious concerns with what the
:11:40. > :11:44.military did on the 3rd and in every step of the process when we have had
:11:44. > :11:49.concerns we have raised them publicly and privately and will
:11:49. > :11:52.continue to do so. It's been said that the US lacked understanding of
:11:52. > :11:57.the situation. Do you accept that? Not at all. Everybody is clear-eyed
:11:57. > :12:00.about the situation of the complexity of the situation in
:12:00. > :12:04.Egypt. We'll remain engaged on the ground working with the different
:12:04. > :12:07.parties in the groups. What he said is that there are no easy answers
:12:07. > :12:09.here, but what is in the best interest of the Egyptian people,
:12:09. > :12:13.even in this complicated situation interest of the Egyptian people,
:12:13. > :12:16.is to come to the table. You have talked about the issues you are
:12:16. > :12:21.considering. Can you ex-prawn the case, as things stand, with 500 to
:12:21. > :12:24.600 people massacred on the streets, for leaving your US military aid in
:12:24. > :12:30.place? We continue to review all our aid to
:12:31. > :12:34.Egypt and our national security team will decide in the coming weeks
:12:35. > :12:38.about whether or not we have to do anything additionally in that
:12:38. > :12:43.regard. What would it take for you to withdraw that aid then?
:12:43. > :12:48.I'm not going to put a certain marker on what it would take in
:12:48. > :12:52.terms of our aid. I'll say that we always said that, we are corning to
:12:52. > :12:55.review the assistance and the steps the interim government takes will
:12:55. > :13:02.have an impact on aid going forward. Sure, but a lot of people watching
:13:02. > :13:05.this would say, if you are not actual actually pulling aid when 600
:13:06. > :13:10.or more people have been massacred, what would it actually take? And, if
:13:10. > :13:15.you are going to keep it up, what is it for?
:13:15. > :13:19.I think everybody's very focussed on aid, but you have seen us take a
:13:19. > :13:22.couple of steps opt military side, including cancelling this exercise
:13:22. > :13:26.but also postponing the shipment of F 16s that were scheduled recently,
:13:26. > :13:29.so we have taken steps and will continue reviewing the aid. Are you
:13:29. > :13:32.happy to deal with the interim government, is that the message we
:13:32. > :13:37.should accept from this? We have been clear that we are going to work
:13:37. > :13:38.with all parties and groups, that obviously includes the interim
:13:38. > :13:41.government. They are the ones, as obviously includes the interim
:13:41. > :13:46.the secretary said yesterday that, have a preponderance of power in the
:13:46. > :13:49.current situation and have a responsibility to not perpetrate
:13:49. > :13:53.violence against their own citizens. So clearly, they have a great deal
:13:53. > :13:58.of power here and we'll continue working with them both to push them
:13:58. > :14:04.to refrain from violence, but also to bring all parties together and
:14:04. > :14:07.move as quickly as possible towards a democratically elected Government.
:14:07. > :14:12.As they publicly said they are willing to do. Bluntly, the message
:14:12. > :14:17.this is sending out to the Islamic world, to small, moderate parties
:14:17. > :14:22.all over, is, don't bother getting elected or going through the
:14:22. > :14:28.democratic process, because if that's overturned, tough luck? .
:14:28. > :14:32.Nobody a naive. Nobody thinks transitioning to democracy after
:14:32. > :14:36.decades of autocratic rule is easy. That's why we need to remain engaged
:14:36. > :14:40.with the interim government, with the Muslim Brotherhood, with all
:14:40. > :14:46.sides to help them get back to a place that's on a path towards
:14:46. > :14:49.democracy. Thank you very much. Senator John McCain stood against
:14:49. > :14:53.President Obama in the 2008 Presidential election and is a
:14:53. > :14:57.member of the senate Foreign Affairs relations committee. Thank you for
:14:57. > :15:01.joining us here on Newsnight. Do you wish America had come in earlier on
:15:01. > :15:07.this one? Oh, I wish that when it was clear
:15:07. > :15:13.that the military coup had violated the United States law, that we had
:15:13. > :15:17.enforced the law. We were asking the Egyptians to have a constitution and
:15:17. > :15:22.observe the rule of law and we are not observing the rule of law. The
:15:22. > :15:28.law's very clear that if there's a coup, aid is cut off and we decided
:15:28. > :15:33.nolet to do that. So yes, I wish we'd weighed in much earlier and I
:15:33. > :15:39.wish that the Secretary of State on August 1st congratulated the
:15:39. > :15:47.generals for fostering democracy. I wish that we'd been unequivocal
:15:47. > :15:50.about the use of force and, as you already mentioned, as I was
:15:50. > :15:56.listening to the programme, I mean, hundreds of people have been
:15:56. > :16:01.massacred and the Muslim Brotherhood is going to go underground. Many of
:16:01. > :16:06.us predicted that unless they met members of the Muslim Brotherhood
:16:06. > :16:09.out of jail, unless they started a dialogue of conciliation and the
:16:09. > :16:15.Muslim Brotherhood condemned violence, that this was going to
:16:15. > :16:19.happen and it's a great tragedy. The United States is basically an
:16:19. > :16:22.observer when there are actions that we can take in order to pressure
:16:22. > :16:27.them to stop this kind of violence that continues.
:16:27. > :16:31.So just to clarify, you think that the message this sends sought that
:16:31. > :16:36.Islamists worldwide will now see that they cannot trust democracy and
:16:36. > :16:42.they will go underground to create whatever power thaept -- sends out
:16:42. > :16:47.the message? It also sends out the message that the United States is
:16:47. > :16:53.not going to enforce its own laws, it's not going to keep its
:16:53. > :16:59.commitment or, in one case, a threat, in other words it's well
:16:59. > :17:04.known now that the administration called in the Egyptians and said, if
:17:04. > :17:09.you have a coup, we will be forced to cut off aid because it's the law.
:17:09. > :17:12.They had the coup and we didn't cut off aid. So America's credibility is
:17:12. > :17:16.at stake here. What should happen now to that
:17:16. > :17:21.budget? It's £1.3 billion, what would you like to see happen?
:17:22. > :17:26.It's a coup. We should obviously cut it off and we should say what we
:17:26. > :17:36.want to happen in Egypt and, by the way, I know, and you do too, that
:17:36. > :17:39.the Gulf states and Saudis has brought in £14 billion. That's in
:17:39. > :17:46.tourism, business, and a whole broad brought in £14 billion. That's in
:17:46. > :17:51.variety of things that the Egyptians need the US's help and support on,
:17:51. > :17:54.including negotiations of an IMF loan. Do you think there is any
:17:54. > :17:57.realistic chance that the Obama administration will do that now?
:17:57. > :18:03.What do you think will happen when they say everything's on the table?
:18:03. > :18:08.I don't know because I'm confused and befuddled that we were not
:18:08. > :18:15.enforcing our own laws, we ask them to enforce laws and praise them for
:18:15. > :18:20.the generals for moving forward with democracy and sit by and watch
:18:20. > :18:27.people massacred by the hundreds. That sends a message of tolerance,
:18:27. > :18:32.of brutality, of in-of-Equitablive American leadership and, as you
:18:32. > :18:38.said, to the Muslim world, that the United States of America at least
:18:38. > :18:42.condones this kind of behaviour which is not in America's values and
:18:42. > :18:45.our values are our interests. I guess the unspoken thing behind this
:18:45. > :18:50.though and the real concern is that if that aid goes, whatever deal has
:18:50. > :18:54.been struck between Egypt and America over Israel goes too. Would
:18:54. > :19:02.you risk that? I think we have to and, by the way,
:19:02. > :19:06.the main reason why Egypt and Israel and Egypt's not start add conflict
:19:07. > :19:11.is because they know they'd lose. I value the camp dayed individual
:19:11. > :19:16.agreements, but I value more the respect for human life and the rule
:19:16. > :19:24.of law and that the United States of America cannot sit by and watch an
:19:24. > :19:29.overthrow of an elected Government -- Camp David. I would remind you
:19:29. > :19:34.that elections were scheduled for November. Yes.So there were other
:19:34. > :19:38.ways, democratic ways that Morsi could have been removed from power
:19:38. > :19:42.because he abused it. Thank you very much indeed.
:19:42. > :19:46.Thank you. They've been called the crack
:19:46. > :19:51.cocaine of gambling, most people have never heard of them, fixed odds
:19:51. > :19:57.betting terminals. Fruit machines on Viagra, a licence for use in casinos
:19:57. > :20:07.and betting offices intros deuced in 2001 when Gordon Brown abolished --
:20:07. > :20:13.introduced in 2001 when Gordon Brown abolished the rules. Once TfL
:20:13. > :20:21.roulette for the rich. Now there's roulette at the bookies,
:20:21. > :20:25.computerised. It's called the crack cocaine of gambling. Welcome to the
:20:26. > :20:30.world of fixed odds terminals, designed to remove £1.5 billion out
:20:30. > :20:34.of the pockets of people here and put it into the pockets of the
:20:34. > :20:38.bookmakers. Welcome to Rochdale, one of the poorest towns in Britain
:20:38. > :20:47.where they spend £72 million a year on gambling and where half the money
:20:47. > :20:53.made by bookies is made on these. The touch screen machine, maximum
:20:53. > :21:00.bet £100 a time, time between bets 20 seconds. You can lose £1,000 in
:21:00. > :21:05.just a few monies. James Ptherick did. I started to
:21:05. > :21:11.lose, £20 wasn't an issue, I started to chase it with £40 and before I
:21:11. > :21:15.knew it, £60 was in, £80 was in and it got to the point I was not able
:21:15. > :21:20.to hide the fact that money had gone missing and I'd lie and say that I'd
:21:20. > :21:26.lost it or hadn't got paid properly. What did it do to your life? The
:21:26. > :21:30.fixed odds betting terminals have destroyed my life. He's lost jobs,
:21:30. > :21:35.his home, a relationship. He's kicked the habit now, but thinks the
:21:35. > :21:41.whole system is designed to fuel addiction. These machines have
:21:41. > :21:47.changed the gambling habits of the normal punter. Instead of doing a £2
:21:47. > :21:51.bet, they are now sticking hundreds, thousands into these machines in a
:21:51. > :21:52.matter of minutes. I've done the same. I've lost hundreds of
:21:52. > :21:56.thousands of pounds in these same. I've lost hundreds of
:21:56. > :22:00.machines over the last ten years. What about the days you win? I've
:22:00. > :22:06.never won that much. What do you do with the winnings? If I win £600,
:22:06. > :22:12.£1,000, £800 out of one shop, I go to the next shop. Fixed odds betting
:22:12. > :22:17.terminals offer the same high thrills and risks as roulette,
:22:17. > :22:24.though the maximum stake is £100, the maximum pay you is just £00. The
:22:24. > :22:30.yield from FOBTs is £1.5 billion, which is now more than they make on
:22:30. > :22:36.the horses. The British gaming prevalence survey found the average
:22:36. > :22:40.FOBT gavel Butler spends £1200 a year, compared to £430 a year who
:22:40. > :22:55.stick to the horses and the pen. Every form of gambling since about
:22:55. > :22:59.1987, has been described as a crack cocaine gamble by somebody, scratch
:22:59. > :23:01.cards, online in particular, different types of fruit machine
:23:01. > :23:05.from all over the world, most of which have nothing in common with
:23:05. > :23:07.each other. It's a catch used by people campaigning against gambling
:23:07. > :23:10.to make whatever particular gambling people campaigning against gambling
:23:11. > :23:16.product they are after seem more sinister. There isn't any real
:23:16. > :23:20.evidence of the fixed odds betting terminals being particularly
:23:20. > :23:27.addictive or pernicious. Hi, I'm James and this is the first of my
:23:27. > :23:32.video diaries regarding my compulsory dam bling addiction.
:23:32. > :23:36.James recorded his problem on YouTube. While we were filming in
:23:36. > :23:41.Rochdale, James was recognised by a punter in the bookies from his
:23:41. > :23:47.YouTube channel and they swapped experiences. How's Rochdale dog at
:23:47. > :23:53.the moment in terms of economy? Very, very bad. The only kind of
:23:53. > :23:57.shops that we've got, they're Pound shops, estate agents, mobile phone
:23:57. > :24:00.shops and bookies. They've got the screens, the racing and the
:24:00. > :24:05.football, but all people are interested in, they've got four
:24:05. > :24:10.fixed odds betting terminals and jobless people crowd around them,
:24:10. > :24:15.they'll be playing on them trying to - they have promotions where you get
:24:15. > :24:18.a loyalty card as if you were going for your Morrison's or Tesco points.
:24:18. > :24:20.a loyalty card as if you were going How do you feel about the speed,
:24:20. > :24:27.a loyalty card as if you were going because you can spin every 20
:24:27. > :24:33.seconds? You can put £13.75 on one number. You lose your £100. If you
:24:33. > :24:36.have had three or four losing spots and you are upping your stake, the
:24:36. > :24:43.amount of money you can go through in such a short time. So you can bet
:24:43. > :24:48.every 20 seconds, you don't get time to think about cashing out? It
:24:48. > :24:53.should be increased. There is should be a cooling off where you can only
:24:53. > :24:56.spin every two minutes. So in Rochdale, the betting shops are one
:24:56. > :24:59.of the few boom industries. So it's a typical British high
:24:59. > :25:04.of the few boom industries. street really, Betfred here, Paddy
:25:04. > :25:08.Power over there and William hill around the corner. I've been in each
:25:08. > :25:14.one and there are four terminals and it's fair to say there is a fair old
:25:14. > :25:19.crowd around the terminals. Each that sheep yields on average £45,000
:25:19. > :25:24.per year to the bookie. That's a lot of money.
:25:24. > :25:30.Money that does create jobs in bookies, but creates a whole lot of
:25:30. > :25:35.heartache as well. Paul Mason there. Joining me now
:25:35. > :25:41.from the home of gambling in Las Vegas is Derek Webb who invented a
:25:41. > :25:47.poker game now widely used in betting shops but who campaigns
:25:47. > :25:50.against them. Also, the member of the British gamblers association.
:25:51. > :25:55.Derek, describe what it sounds like and feels like to see your games now
:25:55. > :26:00.on machines that they describe as crack cocaine? Well, the poker game
:26:01. > :26:05.on the that sheep is not really what the story is about. Over 90% of the
:26:05. > :26:10.action on the machine is roulette and that's the addictive content.
:26:10. > :26:17.But it does concern me, of course, that a game that I helped to create,
:26:17. > :26:22.is winning money from play players several times faster than they would
:26:22. > :26:27.be losing their money if they were playing in a casino. The real issue
:26:27. > :26:31.is the roulette. That's the most addictive content where the players
:26:31. > :26:36.are losing the money and the machines are allowed to play up to
:26:36. > :26:40.£100 maximum. There's no other country in the world that allows
:26:40. > :26:45.casino machines in betting shops up to £100 bets every 20 seconds.
:26:45. > :26:49.Ireland's just refused to allow them and the betting shops are still
:26:49. > :26:52.viable in Ireland. There's no other machines in Britain that you can bet
:26:52. > :26:57.viable in Ireland. There's no other above £2. This is an anomaly. It
:26:57. > :27:02.should never have been allowed. As you pointed out, it was the tax
:27:02. > :27:06.change that enabled them. Let me put this to Derk then that. Was pretty
:27:06. > :27:10.blunt. There is no other country in the world that allows them. Doesn't
:27:10. > :27:13.that spell it out to you? No, because it's not true. There are
:27:14. > :27:18.lots of countries in the world with no limits on stakes and prizes
:27:18. > :27:23.whatsoever. In Las Vegas, where Mr Webb is at the moment, I can put
:27:23. > :27:29.$500 on a stake two to three seconds it takes for that spin to go around.
:27:29. > :27:31.We have a 20-second spin and the customers take about 30-40 seconds
:27:31. > :27:34.We have a 20-second spin and the before they load up. Do you want to
:27:34. > :27:38.come back on that point that the facts are wrong? My facts are not
:27:38. > :27:42.wrong at all. The people who visit Las Vegas, they fly here, they drive
:27:42. > :27:47.here, stay in hotels, spend a lot of money on shows, restaurants,
:27:47. > :27:51.shopping, it's a totally different demographic. The demographic is
:27:51. > :27:55.typical, it's the Rochdale demographic. But that's a slightly
:27:55. > :28:03.different point you are making, isn't it? The demographic of the
:28:03. > :28:08.player is very relevant and the idea of high street access to gambling
:28:08. > :28:14.compared to resort access to gambling is totally two different
:28:14. > :28:18.aspects. Obviously I don't agree. At the end of the day, I have to pick
:28:18. > :28:23.up Mr Webb on the addiction point. Three things to say - one is that
:28:23. > :28:28.there is no qant final evidence at all that problem gambling is caused
:28:28. > :28:32.by electronic gaming machines -- quantifiable. Commissioned research
:28:32. > :28:36.from the Gambling Commission. They see problem gamblers will bet on a
:28:36. > :28:40.variety of gambling products. You heard what happens on the ground, as
:28:40. > :28:44.Paul described, first thing in the morning, the people there are often
:28:44. > :28:47.jobless, the people who maybe aren't working, disenfranchised looking for
:28:48. > :28:52.the cheap way to get started and they never leave them? I don't think
:28:52. > :28:55.that's indicative of our customer base. We have eight million
:28:55. > :29:00.customers and the vast majority bet safely and responsibly. Why have
:29:00. > :29:06.those who choose to have themselves excluded from the shops to stop them
:29:06. > :29:08.going in them, do half of them then breach that self-exclusion because
:29:08. > :29:16.they are so addicted on the machines? Again, to say that it's
:29:16. > :29:23.addictive is... So they self-exclude and choose to walk back in? There is
:29:23. > :29:28.a variety of gambling things, poker, betting machine shops, but the caps
:29:29. > :29:34.on stakes and prizes doesn't work anywhere else. They tried it in
:29:34. > :29:38.Norway, problem gambling went up. Hard mitigation measures in the
:29:38. > :29:47.shops work, where staff help customers to gamble safely. The cap
:29:47. > :29:50.doesn't work? That's total falsehood. In
:29:50. > :29:54.Australia, they are talking about reducing dam gambling to one dollar
:29:54. > :29:59.maximum on the local access machines. Hasn't been implemented.
:29:59. > :30:04.Well, it should be implemented and there are a lot of politicians
:30:04. > :30:08.supporting that and there's more than adequate evidence of problem
:30:08. > :30:13.gambling so don't keep still hiding the evidence. It does seem odd. If
:30:13. > :30:17.Ireland is on the verge of banning them... They are only banned in
:30:17. > :30:21.shops in Ireland. What will make a difference is what we are trying to
:30:21. > :30:25.do and we are putting out a code of conduct which will be launched soon.
:30:25. > :30:29.Absolute nonsense. It will be about choice. Code of conduct for the
:30:30. > :30:34.customers for those who have the machines? The operators of the
:30:34. > :30:39.machines, we are putting on limits and reminders. Why is that nonsense?
:30:39. > :30:44.None of this works. They had a code of conduct when the machines were
:30:44. > :30:48.legal prior to the 2005 Gambling Act, they introduced the code of
:30:48. > :30:52.conduct then, got around some of the code of conduct provisions and they
:30:52. > :30:57.are going to do the same thing all over. It's smoke and mirrors,
:30:57. > :31:01.totally. The Government can reduce this £100 to £2 today. They need to
:31:01. > :31:05.do that. All right. There could be a moral argument that you are making,
:31:05. > :31:11.but Ben you look at the money this is bringing in, £45,000 a year for
:31:11. > :31:14.the machines in what are depressed high streets, you have got to say
:31:14. > :31:21.nobody's going to give them up, right?
:31:21. > :31:24.The machines can reduce the stake to £2, there 'll be some increase in
:31:24. > :31:31.action on the machines at that level. There 'll be some increase at
:31:31. > :31:34.the counter play. They're less harmful forms of gambling, there's
:31:34. > :31:40.be reductions in problem gambling. Every year, there's a million people
:31:40. > :31:44.who either turn 18 or come into the country who... Why wouldn't you
:31:45. > :31:50.choose to be the good guys in this? You can see how much fear is create
:31:50. > :31:54.bid the machines in the way other countries are treating them. Why
:31:54. > :31:57.wouldn't you choose to have the upper ground and say, we can have a
:31:57. > :32:02.better image for it, rather than waiting for it to be band? It's
:32:02. > :32:07.about image. Because you don't believe they are having any negative
:32:07. > :32:13.social effect... I don't say that at all. You agree with that then?There
:32:13. > :32:20.is some social concern. And you don't care? One problem gambler is
:32:20. > :32:25.one too many. That That's terrible for you to say
:32:25. > :32:29.that. -zblf thank you both very much indeed. For the first time in four
:32:29. > :32:32.years, the number of new homes being built in England has risen.
:32:32. > :32:35.Evidence, the Government says, that it's on the right track in tackling
:32:35. > :32:40.the housing shortage. How much credit, if any, is due to Help to
:32:40. > :32:47.Buy? Luisa Baldini's been to Lancashire and Heathrow to find out.
:32:47. > :32:53.Official figures show house prices are rising across the country. House
:32:53. > :32:56.prices rise at the fastest rate for seven years. Ministers claim the
:32:56. > :33:02.market's turned a corner. London - in a world of its own,
:33:02. > :33:09.seemingly immune to the vagueries of the rest of the property market.
:33:09. > :33:14.But recovery's being seen beyond the capital.
:33:14. > :33:19.Low interest rates and schemes like Help to Buy mean home ownerships
:33:19. > :33:23.more achievable than it's been for years.
:33:23. > :33:28.For those who felt trapped in the rental sector, living with mum or
:33:28. > :33:33.dad or who've wanted to up size but haven't been able to because of the
:33:33. > :33:37.big deposits lenders have required since the credit crunch then Help to
:33:37. > :33:41.Buy will be seen as a knight in shining armour. But there are fears
:33:41. > :33:46.it will distort house prices, creating a similar situation to that
:33:46. > :33:49.just before the credit crunch and that the Government guaranteeing
:33:49. > :33:50.mortgages will leave the taxpayer liable.
:33:50. > :33:56.There are also criticisms that Help liable.
:33:56. > :34:01.to Buy doesn't address a fundamental problem that not enough homes are
:34:01. > :34:04.being built. New figures release today for
:34:04. > :34:10.England show that the number of new homes being built rose by 6% in the
:34:10. > :34:16.three months to June. Housing starts are now 73% above the trough in
:34:16. > :34:21.2009, but that's who % lower than it was before the recession. Critics
:34:21. > :34:24.warn the number of new homes being built are still far smaller than the
:34:24. > :34:33.250,000 or so needed. built are still far smaller than the
:34:33. > :34:38.On the former site of Heathrow's air traffic control in west Drayton, 750
:34:38. > :34:42.now home homes are being built on former Ministry of Defence land.
:34:42. > :34:47.There is community facilities in this building that includes doctor
:34:47. > :34:53.surgeries, some retail, some shops... Bob Weston, the founder and
:34:53. > :34:55.chairman says 20 of the 180 homes he's built here have sold through
:34:55. > :34:59.Help to Buy. He says there's still more that
:34:59. > :35:04.Government could do to help boost supply.
:35:04. > :35:09.We need a real concerted effort to reduce the red tape. It's quite
:35:09. > :35:15.common now that we spend a year getting a planning consent. When we
:35:15. > :35:19.get that consent, there can be upwardly 70 conditions that have to
:35:20. > :35:22.be discharged independently before we can even commence the
:35:22. > :35:26.development. The Government has tried to address
:35:26. > :35:31.stagnation in the housing market with schemes like Help to Buy, the
:35:31. > :35:36.first part launched in April loan equity, is for firstving time and
:35:36. > :35:46.existing buyers, but not for buy to let purchases. A deposit of just 5%
:35:46. > :35:51.is needed for a new build of up tond 3600. The Government lends a loan
:35:51. > :35:56.meaning they need to secure a 75% mortgage. The Government says the
:35:56. > :36:01.schemes are hit with sthouz reservations so far.
:36:01. > :36:04.Although Cambridgeshire's had a reservations so far.
:36:04. > :36:07.significant number of new housing developments, Help to Buy is not an
:36:07. > :36:14.option for 26-year-old Catherine Kidd who lives in a houseshare.
:36:14. > :36:22.She earns £33,000 as a marketing manager at a software company, but
:36:22. > :36:29.her outgoings means she can't save enough for a 5% deposit. There are
:36:29. > :36:33.more properties being built, but my situation is there are a lot of
:36:33. > :36:35.people coming into the City. As a result, house prices remain really
:36:36. > :36:43.people coming into the City. As a high despite the amount of building
:36:43. > :36:46.they are doing. There are wide regional variations
:36:46. > :36:50.when it comes to the property market. In the north-west and
:36:51. > :36:55.somewhere like Accrington in Lancashire, reports of rising house
:36:55. > :37:01.prices are met with blank looks. Prices did recover here after the
:37:01. > :37:05.recession, but anecdotally, they have not risen further. The average
:37:05. > :37:09.price of a terraced house here is about £80,000.
:37:09. > :37:14.I've spoken to four estate agents here in Accrington who say that
:37:14. > :37:18.prices are static. However, they do all report an increase in activity,
:37:18. > :37:26.though given that most of the properties here are not new builds,
:37:26. > :37:30.that's not been through Help to Buy. Lancashire has the highest
:37:30. > :37:35.proportion of empty homes in England. In Accrington, terraces
:37:35. > :37:39.which used to house cotton mill workers now lie derelict. Street
:37:39. > :37:43.after street was due to be demolished until a development
:37:43. > :37:47.company spotted an opportunity to provide an alternative option and a
:37:47. > :37:52.model for the future. They're investing £6 million to refurbish
:37:52. > :37:57.homes for the private rental sector. Our objectives are to create a mix
:37:57. > :38:01.of two, three and four bedroomed family houses for working families
:38:01. > :38:06.who find themselves trapped in the gap between home ownership and
:38:06. > :38:10.social housing. The founder of the company welcomes Government input
:38:10. > :38:15.when it comes to housing strategy, but is worried about long-term
:38:15. > :38:20.stability. My concern with some of the
:38:20. > :38:24.Government initiatives are the potential inflationary impacts of
:38:24. > :38:27.those initiatives because of the relatively short time scales within
:38:27. > :38:31.which ministers want to see the initiatives delivered. For example,
:38:31. > :38:35.this project is being partly funded through a loan from the Homes and
:38:35. > :38:38.Communities Agency. Without that support, we wouldn't have been able
:38:38. > :38:43.to deliver the project. The loan comes with certain conditions around
:38:43. > :38:47.time scales and so on, which if you aggregate into a national level, has
:38:47. > :38:50.the potential to create potential inflationary effects upon the supply
:38:50. > :38:54.chain, the cost of raw materials too, which ultimately can damage the
:38:54. > :38:58.profitability and viability of developments such as this. From
:38:58. > :39:03.January, Help to Buy will be offering a mortgage guarantee scheme
:39:03. > :39:11.to purchase old homes, as well as new, with a deposit of between
:39:11. > :39:14.5-20%, buyers will be able to secure a repayment mortgage for the
:39:14. > :39:18.remainder, part of which the Government will guarantee to the
:39:19. > :39:23.lender. It's this part of the scheme which will provide £130 billion
:39:23. > :39:26.worth of mortgages that's causing alarm with comparisons to the
:39:26. > :39:29.subprime market in the US. Businesses are looking for
:39:29. > :39:32.reassurance about the scheme and Government's going to have the tread
:39:32. > :39:38.carefully when designing it to make sure it really focuses on those who
:39:38. > :39:42.most need it and that it has a suitable exit strategy so business
:39:42. > :39:47.is clear when the scheme will come to an end, so that it doesn't go on
:39:47. > :39:51.for ever. We also might need to think about traditioners by which
:39:51. > :39:54.the scheme may taper off earlier than necessary if the market picks
:39:54. > :39:57.up so we can ensure it doesn't lead to a house price boom. So which one
:39:57. > :40:04.up so we can ensure it doesn't lead is yours? Plot 37 on the end here.
:40:04. > :40:10.It's a three-bedroomed semi detached with an integrated Gar Raj. For
:40:10. > :40:15.D'Alicia and Daryl, Help to Buy's meant they can put down root roots
:40:15. > :40:19.while they make plans to marry next year. They are in their 20s and have
:40:19. > :40:26.been living with D'Alicia's parents. They saw the option of renting as
:40:26. > :40:34.dead money. We wanted to own our own property, so we have been saving.
:40:34. > :40:36.We've had to save up for the 10%, that would have taken us longer. You
:40:37. > :40:41.We've had to save up for the 10%, want your own place, but you still
:40:41. > :40:45.want to afford to have your luxuries like go on holiday and get married,
:40:45. > :40:50.stuff like that. We didn't want to have to spend every last penny on a
:40:50. > :40:56.house that we couldn't afford to pay 10% on.
:40:56. > :41:04.Our economy needs new homings. D'Alicia and Daryl are one of the
:41:04. > :41:10.estimated 220,000 new households formed every year.
:41:10. > :41:14.Given today's building figures, s discrepancy of 110,000 homes. While
:41:14. > :41:19.that short fall prevails, cheaper mortgages and low interest rates are
:41:19. > :41:24.reviving memories and concerns of the previous boom.
:41:24. > :41:25.The difference is, if there's another crash, taxpayers' money is
:41:25. > :41:36.at stake too. Now, a rare new species of mammal's
:41:36. > :41:42.just been discovered and, to clarify, it's not just the same as
:41:42. > :41:50.before, but with a beard. It's two feet long and looks like a cross
:41:50. > :41:56.between a cat and teddy bear. They've been found in the forest of
:41:56. > :42:01.Ecuador and Colombia. Christopher Helgin, this is extraordinary, how
:42:01. > :42:10.did you find it? I first got on the trail of the olangito by finding
:42:10. > :42:14.specimens in the largest museums. I found skips and skulls that didn't
:42:14. > :42:18.match any known animal. They'd been confused with other mammals,
:42:18. > :42:23.especially one called an olingo. I could see in the skips and skulls
:42:23. > :42:29.that they were quite a different animal. So you put this together
:42:29. > :42:36.before you saw nit the flesh? That's exactly right. Close up,
:42:36. > :42:42.they're charming animals. They weigh about a kilo. They are about
:42:42. > :42:48.two-and-a-half feet long and they have long, soft fur and a beautiful
:42:48. > :42:53.rounded face. They are very, very handsome, charming animals and
:42:53. > :43:01.completely overlooked by all zoologists until today. How unusual
:43:01. > :43:06.is it to suddenly find a mall national? We think we have it
:43:06. > :43:10.covered? We talk about extinction, but rarely talk about new
:43:10. > :43:13.discoveries? It does happen. New mammal species are still being
:43:13. > :43:18.discovered. There are plenty of areas still left to explore. Plenty
:43:18. > :43:22.of the world we still want to know a lot more about. But, it's very
:43:22. > :43:29.unusual that a new mammal turns up in this part of the mammal family
:43:29. > :43:34.tree. The olangito is a member of the racoon family. This is part of
:43:34. > :43:42.the tree of life that includes dog, cat and bear family et cetera. The
:43:42. > :43:46.olangito coming as a new species is extremely unusual. When you discover
:43:46. > :43:49.them, do you want to try and encourage their habitats in a lot of
:43:49. > :43:56.different places or do you leave them be and write it in the science
:43:56. > :44:01.books? We didn't want to leave things be.
:44:01. > :44:06.We've spent many years working on this project, in part so that we
:44:06. > :44:12.could today report as much as we could about olangitos and their
:44:12. > :44:15.behaviour and life and habitats they live in. We have learned that they
:44:15. > :44:20.are special Tories a particular kind of habitat in the northern Andes
:44:20. > :44:32.called cloud forest, high elevation forests in Colombia and Ecuador. We
:44:32. > :44:36.don't think that the olangito is going to be extinct, but there are
:44:36. > :44:41.threats to its survival. Well, it's fantastic to talk to you,
:44:41. > :44:49.I can imagine a whole series of little cuddly toy toys olangito
:44:49. > :44:53.shaped, but for now thank you for joining us. I'm going to take you
:44:53. > :44:59.through The Times and some of the front-pages we have got. Cameron
:44:59. > :45:00.targets migrant benefits in E Rich reform talks, says Downing Street
:45:00. > :45:07.targets migrant benefits in E Rich will put curbing the right of EU
:45:07. > :45:10.benefit tos the heart of pending discussions with Brussels. Tougher
:45:10. > :45:16.A-levels pass the grade and it has the picture of the stuntman who you
:45:16. > :45:20.may have seen, the star of 2012, the Olympic Opening Ceremony of course
:45:20. > :45:27.when he made that dramatic entrance along with the Queen. He's hurtled
:45:27. > :45:32.to his death at 155mph, a stunt in the Swiss alps. That is the Daily
:45:32. > :45:37.Telegraph. In The Guardian, university's £1 billion bid for
:45:37. > :45:42.students. Elitist institutions are competing for fees and successful
:45:42. > :45:47.candidates can trade up so they are now in an intense competition to
:45:47. > :45:52.recruit students. We know that the UCAS centre took some 70,000 calls,
:45:52. > :45:55.an extraordinary number of calls coming through and students were
:45:55. > :45:59.trying to find their places. In the Independent, it has this horrifying
:45:59. > :46:09.picture of the scene of what they are calling now the massacre of
:46:09. > :46:16.Cairo. . The bodies in white shrouds waiting to be identified from the
:46:16. > :46:25.makeshift morgues. And the Financial Times sell off as
:46:25. > :46:29.markets expect early Fed move. Expectations of slow start to the
:46:29. > :46:35.economy. That's all tonight. We leave you
:46:35. > :46:40.with more mammals. Good night.