:00:10. > :00:19.From Bongo Bongo Land to "sluts" the UKIP MEP who wrecked his own
:00:19. > :00:25.party conference with foot-in-mouth disease. I said "you're all sluts"
:00:25. > :00:28.and we all had a jolly good laugh. Why is that funny? I thought it was
:00:28. > :00:31.funny and everyone in the room thought it was funny, why not ask
:00:31. > :00:38.them why they lost. He lost the whip, has the party lost the plot
:00:38. > :00:43.we will hear from one of Godfrey Bloom's UKIP colleagues. The
:00:43. > :00:47.vigilantes hunting paedophiles. The children groomed for sex on the
:00:47. > :00:52.Internet in their own homes. Is rough justice ever part of the
:00:52. > :00:57.solution. We have the inside story. As BlackBerry tonight shed more
:00:57. > :01:01.than 4,000 jobs one of the top business thinkers tells Newsnight
:01:01. > :01:07.which smart companies will be next to fail. Nokia is essentially gone,
:01:07. > :01:18.BlackBerry is essentially gone. And now Apple is next.
:01:18. > :01:23.Good evening, so it is your big moment as a political leader toe
:01:23. > :01:27.party conference. You promise a political earthquake and suggest
:01:27. > :01:33.your ambitions are almost limitness. Then you find out one of your
:01:33. > :01:38.closest political friends has described women who don't do proper
:01:38. > :01:42.house cleaning "sluts" and hit someone on the head with a party
:01:42. > :01:46.conference programme. Not a scene from a sitcom, but today at the
:01:46. > :01:50.UKIP conference. We have been discussing sluts and other matters
:01:50. > :01:55.with the man at the centre of it all, UKIP MEP, Godfrey Bloom.
:01:55. > :02:06.Britain is going to make the great escape. Good morning. Please
:02:06. > :02:15.welcome Nigel Farage. A hero's welcome for the man making UKIP
:02:15. > :02:22.grow up. Nigel Farage even had the mandatory pumping music, so beloved
:02:22. > :02:35.of our politicians. The day started so well for him. What I suggest we
:02:35. > :02:40.do is we turn the European elections May 22nd and give our as
:02:40. > :02:43.an opportunity to give our opinion on the European Union and open
:02:43. > :02:47.borders. Here we are outside the UKIP conference boozer, moments
:02:47. > :02:50.away from Downing Street and the corridors of power. What would
:02:50. > :02:55.happen if Nigel Farage's party got lucky, very, very lucky, but lucky
:02:55. > :03:00.enough to get anywhere near power in 2015. Is his team ready? The
:03:01. > :03:05.events of today suggest not. Nigel Farage we have just found you in
:03:05. > :03:10.the pub at 3.00, if you were PM you wouldn't be able to do that? Why
:03:10. > :03:13.not. Are you ready for Government, personally? We are not going to be
:03:13. > :03:17.forming a Government in 2015, of course we are not. That is a
:03:17. > :03:22.ridiculous jump to even contemplate, however, if we get our ducks in a
:03:22. > :03:27.row, and we target effectively and sensibly in 2015 we will get a good
:03:27. > :03:34.representation of UKIP MPs over there in Westminster. Who knows,
:03:34. > :03:38.may even hold the balance of power? Nigel Farage has been attempting to
:03:38. > :03:42.clean up his party and equip them with sensible policies. Mere
:03:42. > :03:47.moments later he would suffer a setback in this endeavour. As we
:03:47. > :03:52.were speaks, down the road his economic spokesman was being
:03:53. > :03:56.kippered, or U-kippered. What do you make of the front of the
:03:56. > :04:00.conference brochure with no black comments on it. What a racist
:04:00. > :04:05.comment, that is an appalling thing to say, you are picking people out
:04:05. > :04:09.for the colour of their skin, you disgust me, get out of my way.
:04:09. > :04:15.REPORTER: What is appalling about making that point? You, Sir, are a
:04:15. > :04:22.racist. REPORTER: What is racist? You have taken this and picked out
:04:22. > :04:28.the colour of people's faces, it is disgraceful! He then arrived to see
:04:28. > :04:34.Newsnight, what about other he made at the lunchtime event. Jane
:04:34. > :04:40.Collins the speaker said I don't clean behind the fridge and none of
:04:40. > :04:46.the ladies said they didn't clean behind the fridge, and I said
:04:46. > :04:49.you're all shrults, you are untidy you leave your kit hanging around,
:04:49. > :04:53.has your mother never called you a slut. She has called me other
:04:53. > :04:57.things, but not that. It was no malice, it was a joke, it was all
:04:57. > :04:58.on camera. And if you listen to what was said you will know that
:04:58. > :05:03.on camera. And if you listen to was a joke appreciated by everybody
:05:03. > :05:07.there, men and women alike. A lot of people watching won't like that,
:05:07. > :05:09.do you understand why? It depends, you are skewing this, why not ask
:05:09. > :05:13.the ladies who were there. It you are skewing this, why not ask
:05:13. > :05:17.fun, it was a joke, and most people in Britain have a sense of humour,
:05:17. > :05:24.even if you don't. But there are two sides to UKIP,
:05:24. > :05:28.Diane James stood in and very nearly won the Eastleigh by-
:05:28. > :05:29.election, like Nigel Farage she was not happy with Bloom. Are you
:05:30. > :05:33.election, like Nigel Farage she was saying that when you put a slate of
:05:33. > :05:42.candidates forward in 2015 that they will of your ilk or of Godfrey
:05:42. > :05:45.Bloom's ilk, they are probably listening to him today and being
:05:45. > :05:49.worried. I would say they will be of my ilk, thank you for that
:05:49. > :05:53.compliment. The process we have gone through to select our MEP
:05:53. > :05:57.candidates, I'm sure you will trip me up with Godfrey got through that.
:05:57. > :06:02.The point is over 300 people put their names forward, that was
:06:02. > :06:07.whittled down to over 200, 60 have come through. It was meant to be an
:06:07. > :06:11.upbeat conference, but Farrage accused bloom blom of destroying it,
:06:11. > :06:19.and UKIP -- Bloom of destroying it and UKIP withdrew the whip from him.
:06:19. > :06:24.David Cameron described UKIP once as "fruitcakes" he regrets that now,
:06:24. > :06:28.but Nigel Farage seems to be picking the fruitier bits from the
:06:28. > :06:33.cake, that is a long exercise and my mother could tell him that.
:06:33. > :06:38.I am a joined by Roger Helmer from UKIP. How big a problem do you have
:06:38. > :06:43.with fruitcakes from the party? We have a problem with the remarks
:06:43. > :06:47.Godfrey made sod, I'm not here to defend them. The whole party is
:06:47. > :06:52.saddened. We were having a great conference with some serious stuff,
:06:52. > :06:56.and I quite understand that the whole media story now is Godfrey
:06:56. > :06:59.Bloom. It is a disaster for you? In media presentation of our
:06:59. > :07:03.conference it is not good news. You knew about him after Bongo Bongo
:07:03. > :07:08.Land and other things, you knew and Nigel Farage knew he could be a
:07:08. > :07:14.problem. Why not just get rid of him before, it is about Nigel
:07:14. > :07:18.Farage's leadership? He's a colourful and outspoken character,
:07:18. > :07:23.and we all can be and we have lots of those. Bongo Bongo Land, that is
:07:23. > :07:26.colourful? I thought that was just about liveable with, today it was
:07:27. > :07:31.not liveable with and the party is right to withdraw the whip. Isn't
:07:31. > :07:35.it because it spoiled your conference, not because of the
:07:35. > :07:40."sluts" comment and the Bongo Bongo Land, that wouldn't have been
:07:40. > :07:45.acceptable. Wouldn't it be acceptable as long as it didn't
:07:45. > :07:49.upstage Nigel Farage, which it did? Godfrey tries to justify it by
:07:49. > :07:52.saying it was a joke, if you listen to the tape everybody there laughed.
:07:52. > :08:01.In the context of the meeting it was accepted as a light-hearted
:08:01. > :08:04.remark. But it shows, in my view, a serious misjudgment, because any
:08:04. > :08:08.politician would know that a light- hearted remark can be picked out
:08:08. > :08:11.and shown on the television in a different situation and everybody
:08:11. > :08:16.says quite rightly that was one wise and not the right thing to say.
:08:16. > :08:24.Saying to somebody from the media "you are a racist" for pointing out
:08:24. > :08:28.of the 200-pictures on your conference programme they are white
:08:28. > :08:33.faces, and then whacking them on the head, that is not a joke? It is
:08:33. > :08:36.not acceptable, and the first line he might have got away with, I
:08:36. > :08:39.don't know, that piece of behaviour, it is the job of politicians to
:08:39. > :08:42.communicate with the public. It is the job of politicians to
:08:42. > :08:47.communicate with the media in an orderly and decent way. And frankly
:08:47. > :08:50.I was shocked when I saw that. Were you also shocked when it was
:08:50. > :08:54.pointed out that all these faces are white, or does that not matter?
:08:54. > :08:57.What I would point out to you is we have a list of 60 candidates for
:08:57. > :09:00.What I would point out to you is we our MEP election next year, and
:09:00. > :09:05.there is a significant number, don't ask me how many, because I
:09:05. > :09:09.haven't added it up, of ethnic minorities and incidentally women,
:09:09. > :09:15.we have women likely to be elected, I'm delighted by that. You don't
:09:15. > :09:19.have a problem the brochure, 200 pictures all of white people? I
:09:19. > :09:23.wasn't aware of that until we saw it on the television. Would you
:09:24. > :09:27.change it now? If we could go back we would do it differently. You can
:09:27. > :09:28.see the image problem, Nigel Farage made a speech very well received in
:09:28. > :09:33.the hall, he talked about wanting made a speech very well received in
:09:33. > :09:36.the country back and people nodding, and people looking at this will say
:09:36. > :09:39.the country you want back might be a country where it is OK to have
:09:39. > :09:42.200 white people and no black a country where it is OK to have
:09:42. > :09:47.people on the brochure and women cleaning behind the fridge? We want
:09:47. > :09:51.a country where women can stand for the Westminster parliament and for
:09:51. > :09:54.the European Parliament, where people of ethnic minorities can do
:09:54. > :09:58.sow and are respected, that applies in our party. This is why we are
:09:58. > :10:02.disappointed by these remarks, as you rightly say. It gives the wrong
:10:02. > :10:07.impression of our party. Just a final thought, will the party be
:10:07. > :10:11.much more disciplined now or if Mr Bloom, who is still a member,
:10:11. > :10:16.continues as a member, people might think it is still OK to say these
:10:16. > :10:21.things. You have to get rid of him, don't you? We are a party with a
:10:21. > :10:22.constitution and rules. It was possible to withdrew the whip on
:10:23. > :10:26.constitution and rules. It was the spur of the moment in an
:10:26. > :10:29.emergency situation, the Party Chairman has the right to do that.
:10:29. > :10:32.The National Executive Committee must consider the situation and
:10:32. > :10:35.must make an appropriate decision. It is not for me to make that
:10:35. > :10:37.decision, they will make that decision and we will see which way
:10:37. > :10:42.it goes. decision and we will see which way
:10:42. > :10:45.Phil Collins a columnist on the Times is here as is Isabel Hardman
:10:45. > :10:49.of the Spectator. Does this matter very much in terms of UKIP's image?
:10:49. > :10:53.I think it does. Godfrey Bloom is the gift that keeps on giving, he's
:10:53. > :10:56.fabulous for us. But I think he does have implications for his best
:10:56. > :10:59.fabulous for us. But I think he buddy Nigel Farage as well. If you
:10:59. > :11:04.think that Mr Bloom is funny talking about fridge cleaning, you
:11:04. > :11:06.should hear him on economics, he's hilarious, he's a nationalist,
:11:06. > :11:10.protectionist, it is closed economy hilarious, he's a nationalist,
:11:10. > :11:14.nonsense. What's happening here is that UKIP are being exposed as a
:11:14. > :11:18.non-serious party. You say that, but this could be a grow-up moment,
:11:18. > :11:22.it could be a moment where the speech which otherwise went down
:11:22. > :11:26.well from the loader of the party ends up with him disciplining, d
:11:26. > :11:31.the leader of the party ends up with him disciplining one of his
:11:31. > :11:34.mates. It was inevitable they would withdrew the whip from Godfrey
:11:34. > :11:39.today, he has greatest hits of odd comments he has been making over
:11:39. > :11:45.the years. I have had a run in with him, he said I would be fine to
:11:45. > :11:49.employ because I could work from home, close to the fridge I would
:11:49. > :11:54.imagine! It was going today, Nigel Farage gave a good speech and Paul
:11:54. > :11:57.Nuttall gave a good speech, he's a different story to Nigel Farage,
:11:57. > :12:01.he's from Liverpool with a good back story, then it all became
:12:01. > :12:05.about Godfrey hitting a journalist and using an offensive world. Ed
:12:05. > :12:09.Miliband is saying something interesting tonight about what is
:12:09. > :12:13.called at least some people call it the bedroom tax. Our conference is
:12:13. > :12:16.all about how we tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many
:12:16. > :12:18.families, we will be showing during the course of the week how we
:12:18. > :12:22.families, we will be showing during going to do that. We are starting
:12:22. > :12:25.by showing how we would abolish the bedroom tax, by ending boardroom
:12:25. > :12:26.tax loopholes that this Government is allowing. That is a fair choice
:12:26. > :12:29.that will help disabled people and is allowing. That is a fair choice
:12:29. > :12:32.some of the people in the greatest hardship in our country. Phil, do
:12:32. > :12:35.you think he's on the right side of this, do you think he has done the
:12:35. > :12:40.right thing for the party conference coming up? I do actually.
:12:40. > :12:44.I think this is a very bad policy, 70% of people who pay it are
:12:44. > :12:45.disabled. It's very clear that the housing stock isn't there for
:12:45. > :12:48.people to move out. People are housing stock isn't there for
:12:49. > :12:52.already falling into arrears who have never been arrears before. The
:12:52. > :12:55.already falling into arrears who danger for Ed Miliband is it is
:12:55. > :12:59.then easy to portray him as soft on welfare. Which has been a worry for
:12:59. > :13:03.the party for a while? It is a serious predicament for him. He
:13:03. > :13:05.can't allow this particular policy to be the icon for welfare reform.
:13:05. > :13:10.can't allow this particular policy Has to do other things. It is
:13:10. > :13:13.perfectly reasonable to say this is an incompetent policy and the wrong
:13:13. > :13:17.symbol of welfare reform and putting too great a burden on too
:13:17. > :13:20.few people. I think he's right. You can understand when it comes to the
:13:20. > :13:21.conference people like you will say that is a spending
:13:21. > :13:22.conference people like you will say actually that you are going to make,
:13:22. > :13:26.how about some other ones in terms actually that you are going to make,
:13:26. > :13:31.of taxation or other things? Absolutely. I una that Ed Miliband
:13:31. > :13:37.and Ed Balls had -- I understand that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls had a
:13:37. > :13:40.row about scrapping this cut, because Ed Miliband doesn't want to
:13:40. > :13:44.row about scrapping this cut, appear profligate. It is about
:13:45. > :13:49.appearing tough on this. It is OK about the bedroom tax that is a bad
:13:49. > :13:55.policy implemented badly. You have to look at other places in welfare
:13:55. > :13:57.you can appear tough. Labour had a welfare week recently but
:13:57. > :14:00.you can appear tough. Labour had a sure it cut through to voters. You
:14:00. > :14:05.have to buy other things, it is not very expensive because it doesn't
:14:05. > :14:09.raise much money, it is not a very profligate thing to do. It would be
:14:09. > :14:10.tempting to say let's stick with everything and there is a risk
:14:10. > :14:14.involved, it is the right thing everything and there is a risk
:14:14. > :14:17.do, as long as it is accompanied by other things. Do you think this is
:14:17. > :14:21.not just something that will appeal it the party's left, it might have
:14:21. > :14:26.broader appeal, given the kind of campaign that has been waged about
:14:26. > :14:28.this? It is an interesting way of Ed Miliband appealing to the
:14:28. > :14:30.campaigning groups around the bedroom tax. There is a lot of them
:14:30. > :14:33.campaigning outside the Lib Dem bedroom tax. There is a lot of them
:14:33. > :14:37.conference, they are organised and vocal, for him to get them on side
:14:37. > :14:42.is a good thing. It is not the most popular of the welfare cuts. If you
:14:42. > :14:46.pledged to scrap the benefit cap, that is the most popular benefit
:14:46. > :14:49.that pollsters have touched that would be a different thing. There
:14:50. > :14:54.is a way to do it, we are in favour of welfare reform, the Government
:14:54. > :14:57.are messing it up and this is an incompetent cut. You have to be
:14:58. > :15:03.cred be on that. If you were a parent concerned that your child
:15:03. > :15:06.was being targeted on-line by paedophiles where would you turn.
:15:06. > :15:13.One young mother who was worried her 15-year-old daughter was being
:15:13. > :15:17.groomed, chose to take her concerns to a vigilante group on-line,
:15:18. > :15:22.rather than going to the police. Today the man was jailed for eight
:15:22. > :15:33.years for offences against children. Our colleagues gained exclusive
:15:33. > :15:38.access to the vigilante group. To some they are good Samaritans, to
:15:38. > :15:42.others dang vus vigilante. Here a group of amateur paedophile hunters
:15:42. > :15:45.chase a man they believe has been trying to meet an under-age girl
:15:45. > :15:49.for sex. She's 14, you think it is OK to meet her for sex. Since
:15:49. > :15:54.January, Letzgohunting have been monitoring people on-line they
:15:54. > :15:59.believe are engaged in on-line grooming. We create a profile on
:15:59. > :16:03.various internet websites of a young girl, then we just sit and
:16:03. > :16:12.wait for people to message us. When they do we reply to reiterate our
:16:12. > :16:15.age and let us see where the conversation goes. Before they
:16:15. > :16:20.would speak to us the members of the group insisted on innim and
:16:20. > :16:26.refused to reveal their idea -- anonymity, and refused to reveal
:16:26. > :16:32.their identity. They claimed their first success. This is the moment
:16:32. > :16:38.James Stone came face-to-face with Letzgohunting camera. The camera is
:16:38. > :16:41.for our protection. We exchanged pictures and said would you like to
:16:41. > :16:45.meet up. The group tracked him down to this bar after a teenager's
:16:45. > :16:49.mother contacted them worried her daughter was being targeted by a
:16:49. > :16:51.predatory man. It was the Letzgohunting team through the work
:16:51. > :16:55.they do, they got the information, and when they told me the severity
:16:55. > :17:00.of it, I mean I was a wreck. In an ideal world all I wanted to do was
:17:00. > :17:12.go and find him myself, but I couldn't even walk let alone speak
:17:12. > :17:15.to police. How much of your on-line
:17:15. > :17:19.conversation is you encouraging them? If we do it is only to say
:17:19. > :17:23.hello. We don't encourage them to talk dirty or talk about sexual
:17:23. > :17:27.acts. We don't encourage them to meet us. We agree when they suggest
:17:27. > :17:29.things. How quickly are you up front with the fact that you are a
:17:29. > :17:34.13 or a 14-year-old girl? Instantly, front with the fact that you are a
:17:34. > :17:41.there is no discrepancy in our age at all. They know straight away.
:17:41. > :17:45.How quickly can the on-line conversation turn sexual from those
:17:45. > :17:48.first few contacts to actually making it very obvious they want
:17:48. > :17:52.more? Within minutes, and I mean minutes. People have done it within
:17:52. > :17:55.five minutes. The national organisation which protects
:17:55. > :18:01.children on-line says paedophile investigations should be left to
:18:01. > :18:06.the experts. Confronting people is really bad practice. It risks loss
:18:06. > :18:10.of evidence, it riskss people panicking and possibly harming
:18:10. > :18:14.children as a result, possibly destroying evidence and denying us
:18:14. > :18:17.a chance to investigate a whole web of activity they are involved. And
:18:17. > :18:22.not many people will care about it, but it is a real risk we have to
:18:22. > :18:26.anticipate, the risk of suicide from people whose activities of
:18:26. > :18:34.this nature who are suddenly exposed goes up quickly. A man
:18:34. > :18:36.confronted by Letz Go Hunting and arrested by Leicestershire police
:18:37. > :18:45.and bailed committed suicide four days later. People say you are
:18:45. > :18:48.responsible for Gary Cleary's death, how do you answer those criticisms?
:18:48. > :18:53.The team can't be held responsible for his death. He took his own life,
:18:53. > :18:58.which is unfortunate, our feelings go out to his family and friends
:18:58. > :19:03.after such an unfortunate event. Jamie is convinced his group is
:19:03. > :19:05.providing a service the police cannot match. If the police were
:19:05. > :19:09.providing a service the police doing enough we wouldn't have to.
:19:09. > :19:12.The fact that without even trying too hard caught 11 people trying to
:19:12. > :19:16.meet children in one particular area sort of thing, one area of the
:19:16. > :19:21.country, for sex, that says the police aren't doing enough.
:19:21. > :19:25.You can see more on the Letz Go Hunting story on BBC One's Inside
:19:25. > :19:28.You can see more on the Letz Go Out in the East Midlands on Monday
:19:28. > :19:34.night and on the iPlayer shortly after that.
:19:34. > :19:39.The latest film In Real Life investigates the secret lives of
:19:39. > :19:43.teenagers and the Internet for watching porn and other things.
:19:43. > :19:46.I was struck that many parents just watching that little clip would
:19:46. > :19:50.actually think that the vigilantes are doing a good job? You could
:19:50. > :19:55.understand why they would feel that. It is an emotional level, it is
:19:55. > :19:59.hard not to if you are a parent worried about your children. But
:19:59. > :20:03.vigilanteism is not the answer. We all know the police are having
:20:03. > :20:12.difficulty hoping with the volume of these types of crimes. The
:20:12. > :20:14.answer is to give them the resources they need and not to
:20:14. > :20:18.reply on all sorts of people for resources they need and not to
:20:18. > :20:22.all sorts of reasons. It could mess up investigations? How do we know
:20:22. > :20:25.that the police weren't involved in a major investigation of one of
:20:25. > :20:29.these individuals, it could be completely destroyed by this type
:20:29. > :20:32.of activity. You met a lot of teenagers making this film, what
:20:32. > :20:34.kind of people are we talking about? Are we talking about people
:20:34. > :20:36.who are particularly vulnerable about? Are we talking about people
:20:36. > :20:39.the kid next door? We have to be about? Are we talking about people
:20:39. > :20:43.really careful about the way we look at this problem, it hits the
:20:43. > :20:47.headlines and this is a grotesque story and we are all upset. What we
:20:47. > :20:50.have to acknowledge is kids are going on the Internet to learn
:20:50. > :20:54.about sex. If that's where they are going, then they are going to come
:20:54. > :20:58.across some very difficult situations. And I think that the
:20:59. > :21:05.failure is that we're not teaching them about how to manage the on-
:21:05. > :21:09.line world properly. Some of the things you came up with are quite
:21:09. > :21:14.shocking, there was a girl so attached to her BlackBerry she was
:21:14. > :21:19.prepared to be sexually abused in order to get it back when boys took
:21:19. > :21:21.it? Uch to be careful about "prepared to be". There is a lot of
:21:21. > :21:26.addictive technology around the net. "prepared to be". There is a lot of
:21:26. > :21:32.There is a lot of reward mechanism its, kids feel absolutely attached
:21:32. > :21:35.to their phones in ways that are really inexplicable to us. Once
:21:35. > :21:39.they get attached to the phone, if they don't have the resources to
:21:39. > :21:43.replace that phone and they are in a vulnerable situation, they make
:21:43. > :21:46.some very, very bad choices. Including trusting strangers that
:21:46. > :21:50.they would never do if this was some stranger that tried to open a
:21:50. > :21:56.car door to them? Absolutely, there is a culture of anonymity on the
:21:56. > :21:59.net, that we are not looking at properly. How big a problem are we
:21:59. > :22:03.actually talking about here. One of the things, people will be very
:22:03. > :22:08.shocked by this, there is also a danger of some kind of moral panic,
:22:08. > :22:13.is it a big panic or not? There was another story running today that
:22:13. > :22:18.new figures that CEOP produced showing the number of cases where
:22:18. > :22:23.kids were being black mailed on- line by paedophiles into performing
:22:23. > :22:29.sexual acts, self-laerming, and I think the number -- self-harming,
:22:29. > :22:33.and the numbers worldwide were 2500 cases they dealt with and 120 in
:22:33. > :22:37.the UK. I found that a very, very striking number. Bearing in mind
:22:37. > :22:40.that will only be a fraction of what is actually taking place.
:22:40. > :22:42.Where does the buck stop, the police, the parents, everybody? I
:22:42. > :22:45.Where does the buck stop, the don't know? This is a communal
:22:45. > :22:48.problem, we need a communal solution, that is what's
:22:48. > :22:52.problematic about a vigilante approach. I think that there is a
:22:52. > :22:56.lot more social responsibility from these companies. They seem to know
:22:56. > :23:00.that I want to buy a blue kettle with a whistle, but don't seem to
:23:00. > :23:04.know where the predators are. In every other part of our life we
:23:04. > :23:08.have to provide services with care. We have a duty of care to these
:23:09. > :23:13.kids. I think that I would like to say about the numbers, that in my
:23:13. > :23:18.filming, which has only been a year, and they don't all appear in the
:23:18. > :23:24.film at all, I met five young women who had been groomed on-line. Five
:23:24. > :23:28.and I didn't try that hard to meet them. And it really is very easy. I
:23:29. > :23:33.mean are the police the right people to do this? You talkeded
:23:33. > :23:36.about resource, but we're talking about a wider thing, which might
:23:36. > :23:43.involve something which people don't like the idea of, some kind
:23:43. > :23:45.of censorship within the Internet itself? Companies have to take more
:23:46. > :23:48.responsibility about the environments that they are creating
:23:48. > :23:52.and they are profiting from. Obviously they don't want these
:23:52. > :23:56.things to happen on those spaces, but they are. They can't walk away
:23:56. > :23:59.from the responsibility of the consequences of that. Yes the
:23:59. > :24:01.industry must do more. I think to go back to your point, I think we
:24:01. > :24:05.do have to start thinking about it go back to your point, I think we
:24:05. > :24:10.this in a broader way, frame it as a societal question, rather like we
:24:10. > :24:13.do with public health type issue, the police will not be by any means
:24:13. > :24:17.the only answer, but they certainly have to be part of it when you come
:24:17. > :24:21.to paedophile activity like this. Did you in the film, were parents
:24:21. > :24:26.shock by what their own children were up to, or were they brought on
:24:26. > :24:30.board? I took a particular decision, there is one set of parents in the
:24:30. > :24:35.film, only, but mainly because their son died, he was bullied and
:24:35. > :24:38.died. He committed suicide. But I tried to get the voices of
:24:38. > :24:44.teenagers. And I think that's something that is really missing in
:24:44. > :24:47.this moral panic. Is we're not hearing about the voices of
:24:48. > :24:52.teenagers. A lot of what they do is unconscious and a lot of what they
:24:52. > :24:56.do, they are not even aware of their engagment in dangerous places.
:24:56. > :24:58.I think we have to put it in the context of the brilliant and
:24:58. > :25:01.I think we have to put it in the wonderful things that the net
:25:01. > :25:05.delivers our kids. We have got a real discussion to have, not just
:25:05. > :25:08.this panic. Thank you very much both of you.
:25:08. > :25:14.It was once one of the world's most successful companies, noted for the
:25:14. > :25:19.innovations but tonight BlackBerry announced a cut of 4,500 jobs. Why
:25:19. > :25:23.do successful companies fail, not because they do things wrong but
:25:23. > :25:28.because they do things right. That is the theory of Harvard professor
:25:28. > :25:33.Clayton Christensen. He's worried innovation itself is in serious
:25:33. > :25:38.trouble. And some of the world's best known tech firms like Apple,
:25:38. > :25:40.who launched this week another version of their iPhone had better
:25:40. > :25:46.take note. We have lived through an age of
:25:46. > :25:50.innovation, from the modem to broadband to Wi-Fi over a
:25:50. > :25:54.cappuccino. From the duff car to the electric car, the unmanned
:25:54. > :26:00.drone, the computer virus and of course the cat video. But is it all
:26:00. > :26:05.the wrong kind of innovation, since the mid-1990s the Holy Grail has
:26:05. > :26:08.been disruptive inknow vague. The new machines and techniques that
:26:08. > :26:14.blow away old ones and create new economies, change the world. The
:26:14. > :26:19.man who invented the term is -- innovation. The new machines and
:26:19. > :26:24.techniques that blow away the old ones and create new economies and
:26:24. > :26:28.change the world. The man who invented the term is Clayton
:26:29. > :26:33.Christensen. Disruptive innovation transforms complicated and
:26:33. > :26:36.expensive products into ones that are affordable and accessible that
:26:36. > :26:41.many more people have access to them. Usually that is good
:26:41. > :26:48.because......because Many more people have access, the companies
:26:48. > :26:53.have to hire people to make and distribute them and service and
:26:53. > :26:58.sell them. And yet our system impedes capital from being used to
:26:58. > :27:05.start more and more of these empowering innovations.
:27:05. > :27:10.Instead money is being hoarded inside corporations, or used to
:27:10. > :27:13.create low-skilled jobs, or to defend monopoly positions that
:27:13. > :27:16.boost profits in the short-term. So could that stop the economic
:27:16. > :27:21.recovery from taking off? We need to describe what you have just said
:27:21. > :27:27.in the present tense, not the future sense. It is here. In
:27:27. > :27:31.America we are investing and launching only a third of the
:27:31. > :27:39.disruptive innovations that we used to do in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s,
:27:39. > :27:41.because of the way we measure things makes capital unwilling to
:27:41. > :27:47.because of the way we measure invest in those things. In Britain
:27:47. > :27:48.it is worse. I'm not aware of any truly disruptive innovations that
:27:48. > :27:54.it is worse. I'm not aware of any have been launched here.
:27:54. > :28:00.Instead he says the finance systems rewards market dominance, one after
:28:00. > :28:04.the other, from IBM, to Microsoft, and now Google, Facebook, stock
:28:04. > :28:10.markets love a big boast. It wasn't always like that. Before 1914 the
:28:10. > :28:14.US President, Teddy Roosevelt attacked the power of monoplies and
:28:14. > :28:22.price cartels and that moment is etched into American business
:28:23. > :28:29.history. Does it not frustrate you that some of these big names in
:28:29. > :28:34.history are monopoly players, don't you crave a Theodore Roosevelt to
:28:34. > :28:39.come along and say enough competition? That is a great
:28:39. > :28:46.observation, and I would say, no. That historically when there has
:28:46. > :28:52.been a Monday NOP -- monopoly, it hasn't been that the Government
:28:52. > :28:59.came in and cut them up, but it was disruption that cut them up. And so
:28:59. > :29:05.IBM was being sued by the Government in America because they
:29:05. > :29:11.thought it was a Monday NOPy, and what made them -- monopoly, and
:29:11. > :29:16.what made them and cut them up wasn't that it was the computer.
:29:17. > :29:25.Right now there is a death match in the smartphone market, between
:29:25. > :29:28.Apple, with a cut price phone and android backed by Google. The
:29:28. > :29:37.stakes are high. There is absolutely a they arey that
:29:37. > :29:43.describes how a pro-primery architect -- pro-primery axe
:29:43. > :29:46.tebgture. So like the iPod, this could all end in tears? Because
:29:46. > :29:51.every one of those in the past has could all end in tears? Because
:29:51. > :30:00.been disrupted by open architectures. Apple has always
:30:00. > :30:04.been able to cup up with the next closed architecture that targets a
:30:04. > :30:11.different set of customers in the market. I don't see that coming.
:30:11. > :30:17.Instead they are taking their iPhone to the fifth generation,
:30:17. > :30:23.still closed and those on the open...By That we mean looked down
:30:23. > :30:31.into Apple's world and Apple's world only? That's correct. And
:30:31. > :30:37.that is what kills companies. Nokia is essentially gone, BlackBerry is
:30:38. > :30:41.essentially gone, and now Apple is next.
:30:41. > :30:46.If he's right the most successful tech company in the world had had
:30:46. > :30:51.better get the head around the idea of disruptive innovation.
:30:51. > :30:57.That was Paul Mason and we will miss him and wish him well in his
:30:57. > :31:02.own anyone know vaigs. We leave you with -- innovation. Next year you
:31:02. > :31:06.will be finally be able to buy your very own jet pack, going to work on
:31:06. > :31:17.Monday morning will never be the same again.