:00:10. > :00:14.Instant messaging. It's fast, it's personal, but how vulnerable does it
:00:15. > :00:18.make young people? Whose responsibility is it to keep
:00:19. > :00:22.teenagers safe - and why do they sext in the first place? I have a
:00:23. > :00:27.girlfriend, a boy friend, you have friends, send a picture of this and
:00:28. > :00:30.that. It is fun and games. The confrontation between a Cabinet
:00:31. > :00:33.Minister and police officers intensifies as it emerges that one
:00:34. > :00:35.of the forces involved had decided at one point there was a case to
:00:36. > :00:41.answer. In Washington, everyone blinks and
:00:42. > :00:46.Government service resumes. How does a supposed model democracy get
:00:47. > :00:52.itself into a mess like this? How will this episode be judged by
:00:53. > :00:57.history? Simon Schama will tell us. And in China, Emily chats with the
:00:58. > :01:02.Chancellor of the Exchequer. You don't do this job to be popular and
:01:03. > :01:11.being Chancellor isn't being a contestant in a popularity contest.
:01:12. > :01:14.The harmless explanation is that it's just the modern equivalent of
:01:15. > :01:16.the old children's game of doctors and nurses. Yet child welfare
:01:17. > :01:20.organisations are increasingly worried by what seems to be a big
:01:21. > :01:25.growth in so-called sexting -the exchange of explicit images. An
:01:26. > :01:28.NSPCC survey seen by Newsnight suggests over half of 13 to
:01:29. > :01:32.18-year-olds may have been asked for explicit images, and four out of ten
:01:33. > :01:40.young people in a small survey for Childline said they had created
:01:41. > :01:43.pictures of that kind. Now there are calls for the possible dangers to be
:01:44. > :01:47.spelled out in sex education classes in schools. Sima Kotecha reports
:01:48. > :01:59.from the Salmon youth centre in South London.
:02:00. > :02:07.Why do people do it? Fun. Simply, you know? Have a girlfriend, have a
:02:08. > :02:12.boyfriend, have friends, send them a picture of this and that, it's all
:02:13. > :02:18.fun and games. For many young people it's flirting,
:02:19. > :02:23.exchanges images and videos through their phones. While sexting may seem
:02:24. > :02:28.quick, easy and fun, it can lead to shame. Within seconds, photos can be
:02:29. > :02:32.transferred to somebody else, and where they end up is out of control.
:02:33. > :02:37.With most phones connected to the internet, a couple of key strokes
:02:38. > :02:41.and they can be posted on social networking sites, accessible to
:02:42. > :02:45.millions. But some of this content that's exchanged this way by young
:02:46. > :02:50.people is sexually explicit, and the consequences can be perilous.
:02:51. > :02:58.ChildLine say the results of its recent survey show that teenagers
:02:59. > :03:03.are taking huge risks. Out of the 450, 13-18-year-olds questioned in
:03:04. > :03:09.August, 60% said they had been asked for sexual images or videos of
:03:10. > :03:13.themselves. 40% admitted to creating graphic material. A quarter of those
:03:14. > :03:18.surveyed said they had sent the content to someone else. 15% said
:03:19. > :03:24.they had sent it to a total stranger. These results show that
:03:25. > :03:29.sexting is increasingly a feature of young adolescent relationships.
:03:30. > :03:33.Whether we like it or not, it is almost becoming the norm, the
:03:34. > :03:38.expectation, that a young person in a relationship should share an
:03:39. > :03:42.explicit image of themselves. I've taken topless pictures on this, the
:03:43. > :03:46.I'm not going to lie... It is illegal to take or have indecent
:03:47. > :03:51.images of anyone under 18, even if they are of the person taking the
:03:52. > :03:55.picture. However, the Association of Chief Police Officers says it is not
:03:56. > :04:01.impossible but highly unlikely that children will be prosecuted for
:04:02. > :04:04.sexting. You don't send it to a random person, that's what some
:04:05. > :04:09.people think. I've had friend who've done it and everything like that,
:04:10. > :04:14.and most of the time it is their girlfriend or boyfriend they are
:04:15. > :04:18.sending it to. I was asked to send pictures, and I said no, I don't
:04:19. > :04:22.agree with it. It is my reputation. I have got to live with the fact of
:04:23. > :04:28.that picture going around, so I refused to do it no matter how peer
:04:29. > :04:33.pressured it was in to doing it. I will hold my hands up, me and this
:04:34. > :04:39.girl had an argument, not about the picture. I got so angry, I was like,
:04:40. > :04:47.what? I went around, I was sending that picture everywhere. It was
:04:48. > :04:52.mean. It was mean. She slapped me. You ruined that girl's reputation
:04:53. > :04:56.throughout the whole school. I apologised and to this day she hates
:04:57. > :05:00.me. That's not the point. Don't do it. That's why it shouldn't be done
:05:01. > :05:03.in the first place, because you are young. Things will happen. You will
:05:04. > :05:10.fall out, have disagreements and that person will react. Easy access
:05:11. > :05:15.to hard core pornography online is said to be fuelling a desire to
:05:16. > :05:27.imitate porn stars. Experts believe that sexting partly stems from
:05:28. > :05:30.exposure to explicit film at a time of sexual experiment and
:05:31. > :05:35.development. This video was produced by CEOP to educate young people
:05:36. > :05:41.about the possible ramifications of producing and exchanging sexual
:05:42. > :05:46.content. What's going on? It says its main concern is about those
:05:47. > :05:50.images getting into the wrong hands. We are very concerned about the
:05:51. > :05:53.potential consequences of sexting, the consequences when images get out
:05:54. > :05:57.of control. One of the figures in today's findings is about 15% of
:05:58. > :06:01.young people who sent images sent them to total strangers. What we are
:06:02. > :06:04.seeing is abusers taking advantage of this and getting images out of
:06:05. > :06:09.young people and then blackmailing them for more by saying, if you
:06:10. > :06:13.don't do more for you, I will send these to family or your friends.
:06:14. > :06:18.Last year the Internet Watch Foundation carried out a snapshot
:06:19. > :06:23.study into sexting. After analysing more than 12,000 self-generated
:06:24. > :06:28.images of teenagers it found that 88% of them were posted on what were
:06:29. > :06:32.called parasite websites, sites created for the sole purpose of
:06:33. > :06:41.exploiting sexual content of young people. Now the IWF is joining
:06:42. > :06:44.forces with ChildLine to help get inappropriate images taken offline.
:06:45. > :06:49.Experts say once the photo is out there it is difficult to eliminate
:06:50. > :06:55.it completely. The IWF simply needs proof that the
:06:56. > :06:59.image is of a young person under 16. With ChildLine's help, if we can get
:07:00. > :07:05.proof from the young person of their age, that's all the IWF feed to take
:07:06. > :07:09.Timmage down. -- take the image down. It is better if the young
:07:10. > :07:13.person hasn't created the image in the terrorist place. The number of
:07:14. > :07:18.young teens who own a smartphone has gone up by 20% over the last year.
:07:19. > :07:22.By the end of this yeerts estimated that more than 90% of teenagers will
:07:23. > :07:26.own a mobile. Using smartphones is their preferred method of accessing
:07:27. > :07:30.the web. All this is driving calls for the Government to do more to
:07:31. > :07:36.educate young people about the potential dangers of self-generated
:07:37. > :07:39.sexual content. Ministers that from next year in England, all children
:07:40. > :07:46.from the age of five will be taught how to stay safe online, as part of
:07:47. > :07:49.the new Itive. T curriculum. But campaigners argue that sexting
:07:50. > :07:54.should be covered in personal, social and health education lessons.
:07:55. > :07:58.Sexting is not an IT issue. It's a relationships issue. What we want
:07:59. > :08:02.and the office of the Children's Commissioner wants is that every
:08:03. > :08:06.school run as comprehensive, thorough relationships and sex
:08:07. > :08:10.education programme. That is a whole school programme, so all staff are
:08:11. > :08:16.aware, whatever they teach or whatever they do, and that the
:08:17. > :08:21.content is relevant and pertinent to children's lives. It must cover
:08:22. > :08:29.things like sexting and use of mobile technology.
:08:30. > :08:34.I think sexting is down to self es teerges especially when it comes to
:08:35. > :08:38.girls. Most girls of my generation do it for attention, to try to find
:08:39. > :08:43.love out of it, but it usually is the wrong way.
:08:44. > :08:48.It is clear that for some young people a sexy snap sent to a
:08:49. > :08:53.boyfriend or girlfriend can have devastating consequences. But Aztec
:08:54. > :08:57.knolly continues to continues to evolve, sending graphic pictures
:08:58. > :09:06.will become easier, raising questions of how and if teenagers
:09:07. > :09:09.can be restricted from sexting. Tim Loughton was Children's Minister
:09:10. > :09:12.in the current Government until last year. Professor Andy Phippen has
:09:13. > :09:14.spent many hours interviewing teenagers about their experiences on
:09:15. > :09:21.the internet. And Phoebe Wakefield is, as her appearance suggests, a
:09:22. > :09:24.teenager. You are representing an entire generation here. Tim
:09:25. > :09:28.Loughton, there are lots of places we could start looking for
:09:29. > :09:32.responsibility to be exercised in this - schools, Government, parents,
:09:33. > :09:36.teenagers themselves. Where do you think we should start? Well, it
:09:37. > :09:41.start at home. The trouble is that we have a generation of parents who
:09:42. > :09:45.are now completely divorced from their own children's technological
:09:46. > :09:48.know how and don't have the confidence to talk about sexual
:09:49. > :09:53.matters, and we rely on schools. What's the answer then? We need to
:09:54. > :09:57.embolden and give confidence to parents. We need to educate parents
:09:58. > :10:00.about how they can communicate with their kids. It is really necessary
:10:01. > :10:04.to do that. We need to make sure that what the schools are teaching
:10:05. > :10:09.our kids in sex education is good quality sex education. So you want
:10:10. > :10:14.part of the core curriculum? Whether it is part of the core curriculum,
:10:15. > :10:18.we need central guidance that makes clear what we should be teaching our
:10:19. > :10:22.kids. And examples of good practice. At the moment it's a postcode
:10:23. > :10:26.lottery. People are taught about the mechanics of sex but not the
:10:27. > :10:31.relationships. It is about the how rather than the when or why not.
:10:32. > :10:36.Andy Phippen is nodding his head vigorously. Good. I think parents
:10:37. > :10:39.are struggling. I've had conversations with parents and with
:10:40. > :10:44.teens and what's clear is there is a gulf. Parents want to do something,
:10:45. > :10:49.teens would love to engage in these discussions sometimes but there is,
:10:50. > :10:55.no way would my child do this, or I couldn't tell my mum or dad if
:10:56. > :10:59.something went wrong. I think schools might play a role in
:11:00. > :11:04.bridging that gulf but it needs to be good quality education. How does
:11:05. > :11:10.it feel to you, Phoebe? Where responsibility lies is what I'm
:11:11. > :11:14.getting at. In my school I'm very lucky that the idea of telling us
:11:15. > :11:18.about sexting, promoting awareness of the issue, discussing the issue
:11:19. > :11:22.is really actually central. It is brought up a lot. We've had
:11:23. > :11:26.assemblies on this, discussions on in that school have organised and I
:11:27. > :11:30.think it has helped a lot. It should be like that in other schools as
:11:31. > :11:33.well. But the real responsibility presumably lies with the people
:11:34. > :11:39.doing the sexting doesn't it? Well, can you really say that 13-year-olds
:11:40. > :11:43.are particularly responsible? Well, to have some awareness of where it
:11:44. > :11:48.might end up might be a sensible thing to inculcate then. Exactly.
:11:49. > :11:51.There needs to be an awareness of chemical weaponses. And instead of
:11:52. > :11:57.like the idea that teenagers who do this are damned and demonised... Do
:11:58. > :12:01.you think they are? Yeah actually I think they are. Why? It is a really
:12:02. > :12:05.big thing, sexting is this incredibly wrong thing, if you do it
:12:06. > :12:12.this will happen to you and this and this and this. It doesn't step
:12:13. > :12:18.sexting, but it makes people more ser up tissuous. I very much agree.
:12:19. > :12:25.I hear a huge amount, I don't want to be idea. I say, would turn to a
:12:26. > :12:30.teacher and they say no, they would clag me off in the staff room. The
:12:31. > :12:33.worse thing you can say to someone in this situation is, you shouldn't
:12:34. > :12:39.have done that should you? That's not going to help anybody. Teens are
:12:40. > :12:47.risk taking by nature. Thinking back to my teenage years, there weren't
:12:48. > :12:53.mobile phones in that day but there was the occasional Politkovskaya
:12:54. > :12:57.Royal Wedding -- the occasional Polaroid at the school. True. These
:12:58. > :13:03.days something gets translated on a mobile phone can be seen by millions
:13:04. > :13:09.of people, it is on the internet in perpetuity. There are consequences.
:13:10. > :13:13.Kids need to know that. There are younger kids, the sex education that
:13:14. > :13:18.Phoebe gets in her school is fantastic... What do you tell your
:13:19. > :13:23.kids? It is usually what my kids tell me. We've got to educate a
:13:24. > :13:27.generation of parents who lack confidence, who feel embarrassed
:13:28. > :13:33.about talking about sex and feel pretty dim. Some schools should be
:13:34. > :13:37.inviting their parents in to talk them through what they are going to
:13:38. > :13:41.be teaching their kids, to get their input, and when they've taught their
:13:42. > :13:45.kids back, invite the parents back in so they can carry that forward to
:13:46. > :13:49.the home and talk about it around the kitchen table in a much more
:13:50. > :13:53.relaxed and grown up way. We don't involve our parents in our schools
:13:54. > :13:56.enough with our kids' education. We expect them to do it all at home. It
:13:57. > :14:00.doesn't happen I'm afraid. Do you think there should be a Government
:14:01. > :14:05.role in that? Of course there's a Government role in this. The
:14:06. > :14:09.syllabus has become too crammed with all sorts of stuff. We know that.
:14:10. > :14:13.This is big-ticket stuff. This is stuff that can really undermine
:14:14. > :14:17.kids. It can drive kids to suicide. We've seen horrendous case there is.
:14:18. > :14:21.It can knock their confidence so they won't perform in the classroom.
:14:22. > :14:28.We need to have a frank discussion about this and the Government needs
:14:29. > :14:31.to set the tone vaern having the laissez faire attitude, which isn't
:14:32. > :14:36.working. Due agree with that? I do. There is an expect nation it will be
:14:37. > :14:40.covered in the home between parents and children, but it is not. What
:14:41. > :14:46.you are talking about isn't sexting, a boy or a girl or two boys and two
:14:47. > :14:51.girls exchanging pictures of their genitals, it is bullying. That's a
:14:52. > :15:00.different proposition altogether isn't it I think con ensual sexting
:15:01. > :15:05.between two teenagers is going to happen. You can't do much to get rid
:15:06. > :15:10.of that. What really is the problem is when it goes wrong, when
:15:11. > :15:16.teenagers are willing to use that as a means of bulge. There needs to be
:15:17. > :15:20.a differentiation between the coerced bullying and the sexting
:15:21. > :15:24.that goes no further. The alarming thing is the people not knowing who
:15:25. > :15:29.the other person on the line is. That's really worrying. That's being
:15:30. > :15:35.used to blackmail them so they have to send more explicit images. That's
:15:36. > :15:42.a huge, hugely bullying issue there. That's what's worrying. Kids should
:15:43. > :15:46.know what they are doing. We need to tell them they've got to have their
:15:47. > :15:50.eyes wide open. We need serious warnings of the consequences. That's
:15:51. > :15:55.where Phoebe is right. Just because you can do it in your bedroom, take
:15:56. > :15:59.a selfie and press a button, doesn't mean that there are no consequences.
:16:00. > :16:07.A lod of people will see it and you don't know who they are. I'm looking
:16:08. > :16:12.-- I'm wondering if we are looking at go old-fashioned moral panic. I
:16:13. > :16:16.don't see an epidemic. I see a lot of awareness of a few people doing
:16:17. > :16:21.it. I do think there is a far wired context. This is about self-esteem,
:16:22. > :16:25.wanting to be felt to be attractive. This is about looking at what your
:16:26. > :16:29.celebrity heroes are doing and emulating what they are doing. I sat
:16:30. > :16:35.with a bunch of girls a while back and we struggled to find a positive
:16:36. > :16:39.female role model. It's a massive cultural mix. Thank you all very
:16:40. > :16:44.much. Coming up: I guess there is an irony
:16:45. > :16:48.seeing a Conservative Chancellor who has slated his opposition for being
:16:49. > :16:54.socialists doing all these deals with the Communists. They are a lot
:16:55. > :16:59.more market orientated this lot than the British Labour Party are at the
:17:00. > :17:01.moment. The confrontation between much of
:17:02. > :17:05.the political class and representatives of the police over
:17:06. > :17:07.who said what to whom at the gates of Downing Street grew today. The
:17:08. > :17:11.Prime Minister insisted that his former Cabinet colleague, Andrew
:17:12. > :17:13.Mitchell, was owed an apology. Then tonight the Independent Police
:17:14. > :17:15.Complaints Commission disclosed that the initial investigation by the
:17:16. > :17:22.police into whether three officers had misrepresented Mr Mitchell
:17:23. > :17:25.concluded they had a case to answer. And then a month later the force
:17:26. > :17:32.concluded they didn't. David Grossman is with me with some bits
:17:33. > :17:35.of relevant paper. Go on. A complicated case. What we are
:17:36. > :17:38.talking about here is not the initial alleged altercation at
:17:39. > :17:43.Downing Street, but meeting that took place a month later in Mr
:17:44. > :17:46.Mitchell's constituency of Sutton Coldfield between himself and three
:17:47. > :17:50.representative of the Police Federation. What was said at that
:17:51. > :17:55.meeting was a matter of dispute. After the meeting the three officers
:17:56. > :17:59.gave one version. Mr Mitchell insisted that something else had
:18:00. > :18:02.happened. The man he was with, the press officer, recorded the
:18:03. > :18:05.conversation and we know precisely what was said. The IPCC, the
:18:06. > :18:08.Independent Police Complaints Commission, believe there was a
:18:09. > :18:12.problem there, asked the force to investigate, the force concerned,
:18:13. > :18:16.west mersia, although three officers from three different forces were
:18:17. > :18:19.involved, West Mercia took the lead and concluded there was no case to
:18:20. > :18:24.answer. The men had done nothing wrong. Skip forward to yesterday,
:18:25. > :18:28.the IPCC, the Independent Police Complaints Commission, another bit
:18:29. > :18:31.of paper there, concluded that that investigation itself was flawed.
:18:32. > :18:34.They didn't like the outcome and said there was a matter of honesty
:18:35. > :18:41.and integrity that should have been looked at. Yesterday, the response
:18:42. > :18:44.of the three forces involved, and the Independent Police Complaints
:18:45. > :18:47.Commission, and the Police and Crime Commissioners, one of whom you are
:18:48. > :18:51.about to speak to, was that actually it was unfair of the IPCC to
:18:52. > :18:55.criticise the investigation, the investigation took place perfectly
:18:56. > :19:02.above board and along proper lines and reached its conclusion in the
:19:03. > :19:06.correct way. Today, the IPCC say actually that's not what happened.
:19:07. > :19:12.Here's a letter that was written to the gentleman you are about to talk
:19:13. > :19:38.to, Ron Ball. The Police and Crime Commissioner for Warwickshire.
:19:39. > :19:42.In short, this is a bombshell in one respect, that the initial
:19:43. > :19:49.investigation, the investigating officer thought these three men had
:19:50. > :19:53.a case to answer for misconduct. Yet somehow the following month, a month
:19:54. > :19:56.later, by the time this has got through the top brass of the three
:19:57. > :20:00.forces, the report said these gentlemen had no case to answer. Now
:20:01. > :20:04.that is a question that politicians are going to be looking at very
:20:05. > :20:07.carefully. Next week all three Chief Constables and a load of other
:20:08. > :20:11.people, including the IPCC, are going to come to Westminster to
:20:12. > :20:13.answer questions from the Home Affairs Select Committee. The Home
:20:14. > :20:16.Affairs Select Committee have asked tonight to see both reports to
:20:17. > :20:21.compare and contrast them. David, thank you.
:20:22. > :20:24.The Chief Constables at the heart of the scandal will appear before the
:20:25. > :20:27.Home Affairs Select Committee next week. They are from West Mercia,
:20:28. > :20:30.Warwickshire and West Midlands Police. Joining me now is the Police
:20:31. > :20:34.and Crime Commissioner for Warwickshire, Ron Ball. You've been
:20:35. > :20:39.made a bit of a fool of haven't you? No, can I just take issue with a
:20:40. > :20:45.couple of things there? You can if you want. The investigation was not
:20:46. > :20:50.carried out by the forces - well, with it was, but it was supervised
:20:51. > :20:55.by the IPCC, so it was a supervised investigation, which is significant.
:20:56. > :21:01.So it was conducted by the police though wasn't it? It was, and the
:21:02. > :21:05.IPCC could have at any time taken that investigation over. Is it not
:21:06. > :21:08.the case that the first report concluded there was a case to answer
:21:09. > :21:15.the second one didn't? That is correct. Is it not also the case -
:21:16. > :21:23.you didn't know that until today? Correct. When but first become aware
:21:24. > :21:26.of this? Is lunchtime today. What are you doing defending your Chief
:21:27. > :21:30.Constable then? You didn't even know what was going on. That again I
:21:31. > :21:34.think is a bit of an oversimplification. I can't, I don't
:21:35. > :21:39.have the resources tore time to conduct this sort of investigation
:21:40. > :21:46.myself. We get it the professionals, the IPCC, so I have every right to
:21:47. > :21:49.expect that the IPCC will conduct a professional investigation. They
:21:50. > :21:54.have said that it was all done professionally. There's a question
:21:55. > :21:58.to answer over the changing, clearly, that's the question I want
:21:59. > :22:03.to address. Is it not only the case that not only did the fist report
:22:04. > :22:08.conclude there was a case to answer, the second one exonerated the men.
:22:09. > :22:13.Is it not the case that the IPCC said, are you sure you want to stick
:22:14. > :22:20.with this? Will you reconsider? Not to my knowledge. That's in their
:22:21. > :22:22.letter. The... They invited them to reconsider their judgment that there
:22:23. > :22:27.was no case to answer. From the letter, in September, it appears as
:22:28. > :22:31.though they had some concerns. They at that point, if they had those
:22:32. > :22:36.concerns, could have taken over the investigation. And they didn't. I
:22:37. > :22:40.think that's a question. With something as significant as this,
:22:41. > :22:43.why were they not conducting the investigation themselves? Has the
:22:44. > :22:49.Chief Constable explained to you what happened? In terms of, when you
:22:50. > :22:52.say what happened... How they could come to two contradictory
:22:53. > :22:59.conclusions and then apparently ignore the request from the IPCC
:23:00. > :23:02.perhaps to reconsider. Since I had that information, I've done nothing
:23:03. > :23:05.other than media intervurksz I haven't had the opportunity to talk
:23:06. > :23:08.to the Chief Constable about it. I most certainly will be asking the
:23:09. > :23:14.question as to explain to me how that process happened. There's a
:23:15. > :23:18.potentially embarrassing explanation for it, but there is also a
:23:19. > :23:24.perfectly potentially innocent explanation. With any prosecution,
:23:25. > :23:30.there needs to be a judgment as to whether or not a sufficient level of
:23:31. > :23:35.proof exists to continue with it. Sure, and in this case there were
:23:36. > :23:40.two recordings that completely contradictory testimony. Highlighted
:23:41. > :23:43.bits of that evidence has been made available to the media, but in terms
:23:44. > :23:47.of this decision as to whether to proceed with it or not, different
:23:48. > :23:52.individuals came to different conclusions. There is, I'm not naive
:23:53. > :23:57.enough to believe there isn't a potentially sinister implication for
:23:58. > :24:00.that. But there is also a potentially innocent explanation. My
:24:01. > :24:05.view is I have an open mind and I'm going to investigate that and find
:24:06. > :24:09.out what happened. Do you think shoe have known before today? It would
:24:10. > :24:15.have been helpful. Are you hoping to be re-elected? Too early to say. I'm
:24:16. > :24:20.loving the job. It is incredibly busy and there is a lot to do. And
:24:21. > :24:25.rather unexpected apparently? It was - I had no idea. On the election day
:24:26. > :24:30.itself, I turned up and I literally had no idea whether I was going to
:24:31. > :24:35.lose lie deposit or get elected. Many unexamined elements to it
:24:36. > :24:39.though it turns out. Yes, but, as I say, I'm thoroughly enjoying the
:24:40. > :24:49.job. I've stayed out of trouble so far. But we'll see how we go from
:24:50. > :24:52.here. Ron Ball, thank you. The machinery of American Government
:24:53. > :24:55.looks as if it'll be coming out of suspended animation tomorrow. The
:24:56. > :24:58.confrontation between Republican legislators and President Obama was
:24:59. > :25:02.seemingly resolved two hours ago - the formal vote will happen later
:25:03. > :25:05.tonight. But it is only - yet another - stay of execution, saving
:25:06. > :25:09.the world from another financial crisis. For a country that is so
:25:10. > :25:17.often considered a model democracy, it is an extraordinary situation.
:25:18. > :25:22.Alan Little is in Washington. I rise today in opposition to Obamacare. We
:25:23. > :25:27.shouldn't inflict pain on the American people the try to see if
:25:28. > :25:32.one de gets a little extra leverage. Washington is more split than ever
:25:33. > :25:40.before, this country is more guide -- divided than than ever before. On
:25:41. > :25:44.Capitol Hill they've been arguing about the deckchairs while the ship
:25:45. > :25:50.is sinking. In a sense Americans have been having this argument for
:25:51. > :25:57.more than 200 years. How big and how powerful should the Federal
:25:58. > :26:00.Government be? It is still at the heart of the American identity, the
:26:01. > :26:05.idea that as an American you should be an independent citizen, self
:26:06. > :26:08.reliant, not dependent on any Government. For many Conservatives
:26:09. > :26:16.the growth of federal power under President Obama is a plough against
:26:17. > :26:20.the character of America itself. They've risked economic disaster to
:26:21. > :26:25.refight a battle on health care that they lost three years ago. You are
:26:26. > :26:30.going to harm the country immeasurably... Nothing could be
:26:31. > :26:34.more harmful to the American economy and the people than Obamacare,
:26:35. > :26:38.putting under Government control one sixth of the economy. I realises
:26:39. > :26:41.that in Great Britain that's something that you embrace. We've
:26:42. > :26:47.looked at your system and we see a lot of problems and flaws that we
:26:48. > :26:51.don't want to replicate. So 24 is a law that's already passed, it has
:26:52. > :26:56.democratic legitimacy in both houses and the President signed it off. You
:26:57. > :27:00.are prepared to tip this economy into what many will say is
:27:01. > :27:08.o'clockity? Prohibition was not only a law but a constitutional
:27:09. > :27:13.amendment. We've repealed the speed limit. In England I don't know if
:27:14. > :27:20.that's the case. This is an old divide in America. There are exoez
:27:21. > :27:23.here today of the 1930s, when President Franklin Roosevelt enacted
:27:24. > :27:29.the first social security legislation. It was almost word for
:27:30. > :27:33.word the challenges made to the affordable Care Act, the Government
:27:34. > :27:37.taking a larger role in our healthcare and our pensions system.
:27:38. > :27:42.The Federal Government prying into people's laws and orchestrating
:27:43. > :27:46.people's lives. Almost word for word the same arguments. 80 years ago?
:27:47. > :27:51.That's right, but social security not only was it passed, signed into
:27:52. > :27:54.law but once it happened the American people accept that. They
:27:55. > :27:58.embrace these programmes and I think that's part of the fear that's going
:27:59. > :28:02.on among Republicans, the fact that they never supported those
:28:03. > :28:08.programmes when they were first introduced years ago. They know that
:28:09. > :28:11.once people get used to having universal access to affordable
:28:12. > :28:16.healthcare, they are not going to want to give it up. Which is of
:28:17. > :28:19.course precisely what small government Conservatives fear, that
:28:20. > :28:23.once the power and scope of Federal Government is expanded there is
:28:24. > :28:28.never any going back. You can argue that the election of President Obama
:28:29. > :28:33.in 2008 was one of those rare moments, when America tips from one
:28:34. > :28:37.era into another. For a 40 years wherever that, ever since the
:28:38. > :28:41.election of Richard Nixon in 1968, Conservative America had an almost
:28:42. > :28:48.unbroken hold on the White House. In all that time only two Democrats
:28:49. > :28:53.made it to the presidency and both of both of them were southern white
:28:54. > :28:57.men who came to Washington with the mud of the Conservative rural south
:28:58. > :29:01.on their boots. Many Conservatives came to believe this was a semi
:29:02. > :29:05.permanent state of affairs, that they had managed to build such a
:29:06. > :29:09.lasting majority in the country that it made them, the Republicans, the
:29:10. > :29:14.natural party of Government. The Tea Party Republicans know now look more
:29:15. > :29:20.like an angry counter culture than a party of protest. Liberals and
:29:21. > :29:25.Conservatives have switched roles. I think you are seeing a historic
:29:26. > :29:28.realignment, driven by the increasing secularisation of the
:29:29. > :29:34.United States, particularly among younger people, who are much less
:29:35. > :29:37.likely to be religiously affiliated than older Americans. The United
:29:38. > :29:41.States is 30 years behind Britain and Western Europe in the degree of
:29:42. > :29:46.sec labisation. Why is this significant? It means that a lot of
:29:47. > :29:52.these religious right issues are simply losing their traction. Even
:29:53. > :29:56.so, Americans remain sceptical about the state. At the Lincoln memorial
:29:57. > :30:00.we found one protester linking today's crisis explicitly to the
:30:01. > :30:04.core values of American identity. What is the answer to your question,
:30:05. > :30:09.what does it mean to you to be an American? It means that you can be a
:30:10. > :30:14.sovereign citizen, you can be a free man. Whatever you want to make for
:30:15. > :30:17.yourself decision-wise you can do that. Do you think that's under
:30:18. > :30:25.threat? I think it is directly under threat right now. Two Americas fight
:30:26. > :30:28.for ascendancy, in the nation that first secured the enFrenched
:30:29. > :30:32.Government of the people by the people for the people. Seld Dom does
:30:33. > :30:39.that fight bring the people as close to calamity as it did tonight.
:30:40. > :30:45.Joining me from New York is the historian Simon Schama, with his
:30:46. > :30:48.view on the latest from America. - that great country. It is an
:30:49. > :30:52.extraordinary spectacle watching from a distance. What lesson do you
:30:53. > :30:56.think we should draw Simon? Believe it or not I don't think it is the
:30:57. > :31:02.failure of democratic institutions, much less the constitution, Jeremy.
:31:03. > :31:08.I think what we are witnessing is a pro found personality, identity
:31:09. > :31:12.crisis inside the Republican Party. Actually inside Republican
:31:13. > :31:18.Conservatism, because it was not the case that even during the period of
:31:19. > :31:24.extreme alienation from the administration of Jimmy Carter or
:31:25. > :31:28.even from Bill Clinton while Government was shut down that
:31:29. > :31:35.essentially there was so much throwing toys out of the pram, in
:31:36. > :31:40.order to actually use the fundamental credit and good faith of
:31:41. > :31:44.the United States and its debt to get your way in order to reverse
:31:45. > :31:50.legislation. Which has already been enacted. There was a piece a moment
:31:51. > :31:54.in Allan Little's excellent piece where a Congressman was saying,
:31:55. > :32:03.we've repealed lots of good laws, and that is the heart of the issue.
:32:04. > :32:07.It is right now impossible to repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act, the
:32:08. > :32:12.Obamacare Act, because any repeal law has to be passed as a discreet
:32:13. > :32:17.stand-alone piece of legislation. President would veto it. In order to
:32:18. > :32:23.override the veto, this is crucial, you need a two thirds majority of
:32:24. > :32:26.both houses of Congress. So what do you do when you know you can't
:32:27. > :32:31.repeal it? You either turn into it a kind of semi cometic piece of
:32:32. > :32:34.theatrical grandstanding like Senator T tection d Cruz fill
:32:35. > :32:43.bustering the Or you go on screaming and having a
:32:44. > :32:47.tantrum and threatening to bring about not just an American but a
:32:48. > :32:53.global fiscal calamity, because you are not getting your way. It is an
:32:54. > :32:57.infantilisation of politics on the Republican right. When you have a
:32:58. > :33:01.constitution that allows the entire world's financial system to be
:33:02. > :33:07.brought almost to the brink of crisis, doesn't it indicate that
:33:08. > :33:13.something really outmoded, that needs changing, that is broken about
:33:14. > :33:16.the constitution it's I'm open to hearing suggestion forensic
:33:17. > :33:22.examination you Jeremy. Well it is very old now isn't it? It is quite
:33:23. > :33:26.true. Again, the Allan Little piece was spot on in that the argument
:33:27. > :33:31.between Jefferson and John Adams was exactly over the extent to which any
:33:32. > :33:36.sort of Federal Government authority was going to be legitimate. But -
:33:37. > :33:41.this is crucial - once a democratic Republican as he was called like
:33:42. > :33:46.Jefferson came into office, he understood that American Government
:33:47. > :33:51.was not an oxymoron, that actually the process of governance was
:33:52. > :33:56.extremely important. Quite often actually Jefferson is a good case in
:33:57. > :34:00.point, he grasped the reins of Government with an appetite which
:34:01. > :34:03.sometimes dismayed his more individually minded supporters.
:34:04. > :34:08.What's happening inside the Republican Party is a pro found
:34:09. > :34:13.split in two ways. One, between seeing Republicanism as a kind of
:34:14. > :34:20.evangelical church. It was no accident that the Republican caucus
:34:21. > :34:27.prefaced their deliberations in that nadir of idiocy yesterday when John
:34:28. > :34:33.Boehner failed to get the House to come up with their own plan. They
:34:34. > :34:37.prefaced the it with a rousing chorus of Amazing Grace. You can
:34:38. > :34:42.assume that politics is an act of spiritual rebirth, or you can,
:34:43. > :34:46.generations of Conservative law makers have accepted, and this is
:34:47. > :34:50.still the case with sun like Mitch Muslim column in the Senate, without
:34:51. > :34:53.whom the deal to get us back from the brink couldn't hangs you assume
:34:54. > :34:58.that whatever your Conservatism, you do it through the machinery of
:34:59. > :35:03.politics, through a sense of basic combity, which is not prepared to
:35:04. > :35:07.push the United States and the rest of the world's economy to the brink
:35:08. > :35:13.of ruin. The difficulty is right now we are in a kind of isolationist
:35:14. > :35:18.moment in America. The tendency to really want to tell the rest of the
:35:19. > :35:23.world to go away is ominously fierce. The more bewildering, the
:35:24. > :35:28.more distressed, the more alienated, the more upset Americans are by the
:35:29. > :35:35.long-term consequences of what been happening to the economy since 2008,
:35:36. > :35:42.the deafer, at the extreme right, the defer, the angrier, the more
:35:43. > :35:51.obtuse, the more, "I'm mad as hell." Sounds like the mantra of the
:35:52. > :35:56.estranged. That's the threat to the system. Simon Schama, thank you. I
:35:57. > :36:00.wish you would speak your mind more. I know! It is sad isn't it, but
:36:01. > :36:07.that's because I'm heavily sedated right now. Simon, thank you!
:36:08. > :36:10.There were a couple more announcements of Chinese investment
:36:11. > :36:13.in Britain today, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer continued his trade
:36:14. > :36:16.mission there. He said China's growth in technology was a great
:36:17. > :36:19.opportunity for Britain. It would be something of an exaggeration to
:36:20. > :36:23.suggest that his visit has generated a tenth as much attention in China
:36:24. > :36:26.as it has here, and he did admit today that this country had been
:36:27. > :36:32.pretty slow off the mark in getting to the party. But Emily caught up
:36:33. > :36:38.with him anyway. The empire of China is an old crazy first rate man of
:36:39. > :36:42.war, declared Lord George McCartney, arriving on these shores more than
:36:43. > :36:47.200 years ago. He refused to kowtow to the Emperor. His trade mission
:36:48. > :36:51.was unsuccessful. No surprise then if George Osborne deploys a more dip
:36:52. > :36:55.crack demeanor and a phrase which sounds a lot like, come on in.
:36:56. > :36:58.Britain and China have a great economic future together and there
:36:59. > :37:03.is a huge amount of business that we can do together and we can take the
:37:04. > :37:09.next step together in our relationship. After Beijing and
:37:10. > :37:12.banquets today it was the turn of the tech sector, he praised a
:37:13. > :37:19.company for its growing investment in Britain. And if it is slightly
:37:20. > :37:22.counter intuitive seeing a Conservative Chancellor doing
:37:23. > :37:26.full-scale trade with the Communists, those pesky questions
:37:27. > :37:30.may have to wait. After all, it seems that business comes first.
:37:31. > :37:32.George Osborne, this week you've welcomed China into Britain with
:37:33. > :37:38.open arm as. This a significant move? Is this a pivot towards China?
:37:39. > :37:40.I think it is a moment when we take another big step in the
:37:41. > :37:46.Britain-China relationship and certainly what I wanted to say to
:37:47. > :37:50.China is that Britain is open to investment and jobs being created in
:37:51. > :37:54.Britain by Chinese companies. But I wanted to say something to people in
:37:55. > :37:58.Britain - that China is fast-changing. A company like this,
:37:59. > :38:03.you are literally seeing the future being built. So change is no longer
:38:04. > :38:08.just a low-cost manufacturing centre. It is also pioneering the
:38:09. > :38:11.tech and the science and the medicines of the future. What about
:38:12. > :38:16.the nuclear industry? Would you like to see China becoming more involved
:38:17. > :38:20.in that in the UK? I've signed here a memorandum of understanding with
:38:21. > :38:24.the Chinese Government. In other words it kind of umbrella agreement
:38:25. > :38:28.that is going to allow British nuclear companies to get involved in
:38:29. > :38:31.the fastest growing civil nuclear programme in the world, here in
:38:32. > :38:36.China. But it is also going to allow a China he's involvement, Chinese
:38:37. > :38:40.investment in British civil nuclear power that many countries in the
:38:41. > :38:45.world that wouldn't want other countries involveded in their civil
:38:46. > :38:47.nuclear programme, but I do. If it wasn't Chinese or French investment
:38:48. > :38:52.it would have to be British taxpayers. I would rather British
:38:53. > :38:56.taxpayers were spending money on our schools and hospitals and other
:38:57. > :39:01.things and let's get the resist of the world investing in energy. Can
:39:02. > :39:05.you see see a day where China owned and operated a British nuclear
:39:06. > :39:08.plant? We've signed this memorandum of understanding between two
:39:09. > :39:11.Governments. There are a set of commercial negotiations. I don't
:39:12. > :39:14.want to say more about those commercial negotiations, but I'll
:39:15. > :39:19.have more to say on Chinese involvement in civil nuclear power
:39:20. > :39:22.in the UK later this week. I guess there's a certain irony seeing a
:39:23. > :39:26.Conservative Chancellor who has slated his opposition for being
:39:27. > :39:33.social assist doing all these deals with the exhom niss. They are a lot
:39:34. > :39:36.more market orient ted this lot than the British Labour Party at the
:39:37. > :39:40.moment. There's a complex story of the Chinese Communist Party and how
:39:41. > :39:44.it came to run a very capitalist system. We have to engage this
:39:45. > :39:48.country because it is a fifth of the world's pop police station. What
:39:49. > :39:51.about at home? Do you accept when it comes to living standards, policies
:39:52. > :39:56.that people really care about and feel, Labour has stolen the march on
:39:57. > :39:59.you, outmanoeuvred you? I don't accept that at all. Labour is
:40:00. > :40:03.responsibility for the economic calamity that made this country much
:40:04. > :40:06.poorer, the financial crisis, the deep recession, and it is the
:40:07. > :40:09.Government that is fixing the economy and the British economy is
:40:10. > :40:14.now turning a corner. You went to fight a cap on bankers' bonuses on
:40:15. > :40:19.the same day that Ed Miliband said he would freeze fuel. Did that not
:40:20. > :40:23.feel out of sync? The Labour Party policies are built on nothing. They
:40:24. > :40:26.are flimsy, they are gimmicks. They wouldn't work. Even the Labour Party
:40:27. > :40:31.themselves accept they are promises that can't be accept. A serious
:40:32. > :40:35.economic policy is not just a series of gimmicky conference
:40:36. > :40:38.announcements. It is what are you going to do to grow business bishs.
:40:39. > :40:44.One of the things the Government offers a sensible, solid, consistent
:40:45. > :40:48.economic plan. OK. You are talking about sensible and solid. You've
:40:49. > :40:51.warned before of the illusion of cheap money. We know that the
:40:52. > :40:55.average house price reached its highest ever in August, and yet you
:40:56. > :41:00.are flooding the market with cheap money with the help to buy scheme.
:41:01. > :41:06.First of all real house prices are down. Number of transactions in our
:41:07. > :41:10.mortgage market are down. The NPC are worrieded this is going to push
:41:11. > :41:15.house prices up There are plenty of people out there, not least the
:41:16. > :41:20.Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, he told us of course we've
:41:21. > :41:24.got to be vigilant but there is not a housing bubble today. Are we
:41:25. > :41:28.prepared to see young families in their 20s and 30s completely frozen
:41:29. > :41:32.out of the mortgage market because they don't have rich parents and
:41:33. > :41:36.they can't afford the large mortgage deposits that the banking crash has
:41:37. > :41:40.required the banks to ask? What about a higher personal tax
:41:41. > :41:45.threshold? Is that something you would like to see. It is going up to
:41:46. > :41:53.10 in April, could it rise above that? I'm not going to write my
:41:54. > :41:59.budget in shen Jen or Newsnight. Please do? It is a huge commitment
:42:00. > :42:05.to helping people... Is it pretty much at the top now or could it
:42:06. > :42:07.rise? We are committing to indexing the personal allowance with
:42:08. > :42:11.inflation. People should judge us with our deeds. Where we've had
:42:12. > :42:15.available resource we've lifted millions of low income people out of
:42:16. > :42:22.tax and cut tax... Is that a tiny opening? We've cut tax for 25
:42:23. > :42:30.million working people. Matthew Dan cone neigh cites a dinner where you
:42:31. > :42:37.said if I'm not not the most unpopular Chancellor within six
:42:38. > :42:42.months I've failed in my job? During an economic calamity where we had to
:42:43. > :42:45.take decisions that affected working families to fix a hole in the public
:42:46. > :42:50.finances if, I knew it was going to be a tough and not particularly
:42:51. > :42:54.popular job. But what's the point of doing this job? It is to work for
:42:55. > :43:00.the British people and hard working families. Everything I have done
:43:01. > :43:04.isn't about whether it plays well in the focus group or the opinion poll
:43:05. > :43:10.next day. It is what is right for this country. Ultimately good
:43:11. > :43:15.politics follows good economics. There was personal vitriol aimed at
:43:16. > :43:18.you, the only man to be body at the Olympic Stadium or booed when you
:43:19. > :43:24.saw Chelsea raise the trophy in Munich. I'm wondering if that starts
:43:25. > :43:29.to affect you, if it starts to hurt. I think that might have been the
:43:30. > :43:34.Bayern Munich fans in Munich. Look, you don't do this job to be popular.
:43:35. > :43:38.Being Chancellor isn't being a contestant in a popularity contest.
:43:39. > :43:42.You are there to make the tough decisions that are going to help the
:43:43. > :43:46.economy turn the corner. My mental here in China has been pretty
:43:47. > :43:49.uncompromising. I've been trying to tell the British people, China's
:43:50. > :43:54.changing, and not everyone wants to hear that. This message here of be
:43:55. > :43:59.here or be nowhere is a really important part of our economic plan.
:44:00. > :44:06.The economic plan is what I have the responsibility to deliver. The plan
:44:07. > :44:10.A fell scarily on your shoulders. I wonder if you ever wondered if you
:44:11. > :44:15.were wrong. Look, I was very clear. We had to take early decisions to
:44:16. > :44:19.deal with the hole in the public finances. That was going to be
:44:20. > :44:22.unpopular. But the south-eastern we made those decisions the better. Of
:44:23. > :44:25.course I look back and say, is there more I could have done in the
:44:26. > :44:30.banking system, and at the moment I'm looking at what we could do with
:44:31. > :44:33.the Royal Bank of Scotland. Of course there are things if I had my
:44:34. > :44:37.time again, I would say perhaps we could have done more in banking. I'm
:44:38. > :44:41.really impressed by what we've done in China but I would have liked to
:44:42. > :44:46.have done even more, and I'm doing more now. When it comes to plan A as
:44:47. > :44:52.it is being called, we needed that plan. I have stuck with it, the
:44:53. > :44:56.whole Government have stuck with it and the British people have stuck
:44:57. > :44:57.with it and you are beginning to see it is working. Chancellor, thank
:44:58. > :45:10.you. Prince Charles has barged into
:45:11. > :45:17.something else. This time it is the pensions industry, which he doesn't
:45:18. > :45:25.like. And NHS guidelines shouldn't call
:45:26. > :45:29.fat people fat and a nice picture of the Speaker's while.
:45:30. > :45:33.The BBC unveiled today how it intends to mark the centenary of the
:45:34. > :45:35.First World War. Between 2014 and 2018 we're promised 2,500 hours of
:45:36. > :45:41.World War One-themed programming. Can't wait? Here's the first
:45:42. > :45:45.30-second instalment. Goodbye. So if Germany were to attack Russia, she
:45:46. > :45:51.would also have to attack France. France? Yes, France. And if Germany
:45:52. > :45:56.were to attack France, it would leave Belgium threatened, and
:45:57. > :46:01.Belgium is our friend. We would hop in there to defend them. So we've
:46:02. > :46:08.all got to fight in a war because of that, Sir? Yes, Maltravers. But I
:46:09. > :46:09.might get killed, Sir. Yes, you might. But