:00:00. > :00:11.One of the four murders who killed indiscriminately in the attack on
:00:12. > :00:16.the shopping mall in Nairobi grew up, not in poverty-stricken,
:00:17. > :00:19.war-torn Somalia, but in peaceful Norway.
:00:20. > :00:22.As horrifying new pictures emerge of what happened during the attack, we
:00:23. > :00:28.can identify one of the killers. We trace his story to the non-descript
:00:29. > :00:34.town which took him in and which he rejected for life as a Jihadi.
:00:35. > :00:36.Also tonight: Why nt doesn't the energy secretary do something to
:00:37. > :00:43.stop people being fleeced by the suppliers. -- why doesn't.
:00:44. > :00:47.I had worn my solitude stowically enough without realising how aLen I
:00:48. > :00:51.was. And we have a rare interview with Donna Tartt, the woman who
:00:52. > :00:58.wrote the Seek re History and is about to release her latest novel.
:00:59. > :01:01.-- Secret. I feel lucky I can devote this amount of time to doing what I
:01:02. > :01:10.do. This is what I think about all the time. I'm obsessed.
:01:11. > :01:16.It's now over three weeks since the terrorist attack on the Westgate
:01:17. > :01:22.attack in the shopping mall in Nairobi, at least 63 people were
:01:23. > :01:24.killed. It was almost immediately attributed to the Al-Shabab
:01:25. > :01:27.organisation. Tonight a Newsnight investigation can disclose that one
:01:28. > :01:33.of the four attackers wasn't a Somali, but we have traced him to
:01:34. > :01:39.his Norwegian home town. Gabriel Gatehouse's report contains
:01:40. > :01:45.distressing pictures. It's a foggy road that winds its way
:01:46. > :01:53.south from Oslo as the dark, long, nordic winter sets in. We are a long
:01:54. > :02:00.way here from Nairobi. This is the story of a journey - the
:02:01. > :02:07.journey of a young boy who fled war in his native Somalia. This country
:02:08. > :02:13.is the country who took them with open arms. A boy who found a new
:02:14. > :02:19.life in Norway. I don't know if it's right to call him extreme. It was
:02:20. > :02:22.just different from me. But, who apparently turned his back on the
:02:23. > :02:26.West and the life it had offered him.
:02:27. > :02:34.Investigators believe this man is that boy from Norway.
:02:35. > :02:41.So, we think we've identified one of the Westgate attackers. We think
:02:42. > :02:46.we've found his home town, a small place called Larvik, south-west of
:02:47. > :02:50.Oslo. So that's where we are going now.
:02:51. > :02:59.Newsnight is on a journey to find out who he is and why he might have
:03:00. > :03:04.turned to terror. As dawn breaks, we reach Larvik, a
:03:05. > :03:09.modest town on Norway's southern coast. This quiet become water seems
:03:10. > :03:14.about as distant as it's possible to imagine from Somalia's
:03:15. > :03:20.two-decade-long conflict. That war gave rise to Al-Shabab,
:03:21. > :03:25.meaning literally The Youth, which on 21st September announced in
:03:26. > :03:34.spectacular fashion, it's intention to join the international A-league
:03:35. > :03:38.of Al-Qaeda-linked terrorist groups. Shortly after midday that Saturday,
:03:39. > :03:43.gunmen stormed the Westgate shopping mall. A four-day siege ensued.
:03:44. > :03:48.Dozens of hostages were thought to be stuck inside the complex, held
:03:49. > :03:53.there, the authorities said, by 10 to 15 heavily-armed terrorists. But
:03:54. > :03:58.when the CC TV footage came out, it only showed four attackers, fevered
:03:59. > :04:04.speculation about their identities did little to establish any clarity.
:04:05. > :04:09.There is a lot of rumours circulating and we have to be
:04:10. > :04:13.watchful, since the Kenyans before have had somewhat very broad focuses
:04:14. > :04:19.in their investigations. In Nairobi, all the investigators really knew,
:04:20. > :04:28.was what the attackers were wearing. They dubbed them "black shirt"
:04:29. > :04:33."white shirt" "blue shirt" and "pink shirt." Then from Oslo came an
:04:34. > :04:35.unexpected twist. In a bland statement the Norwegian Security
:04:36. > :04:39.Service said it was investigating whether one of its own citizens was
:04:40. > :04:45.involved in the attack. They didn't mention a name. But sources, in
:04:46. > :04:52.Kenya and in Norway v be pointed us to this man. -- have pointed us.
:04:53. > :04:55.Black shirt, seen firing a kalashnikov rifle inside the
:04:56. > :04:59.supermarket on the first day of the siege. Newsnight can reveal here for
:05:00. > :05:05.the first time that the man under investigation is dew dew dew. He's
:05:06. > :05:10.-- Hussan Dhuhulow. He is 23 and is a nor weedge
:05:11. > :05:17.citizen. Dramatic footage which emerged for the first time today
:05:18. > :05:22.shows the man investigate os believe as Hussan Dhuhulow shooting a man
:05:23. > :05:29.already in a pool of blood. He and his family came to Norway as
:05:30. > :05:36.refugees in 1999. They ended up in sleepy Larvik. Hussan was nine.
:05:37. > :05:39.Informs in this block of flats that we understand that Hussan Dhuhulow
:05:40. > :05:45.lived as a teenager with his family, until a few years ago. A neighbour
:05:46. > :05:52.told us he disappeared and moved to Africa. Mortem Henriksen took a look
:05:53. > :05:58.from the CC TV footage from inside Westgate. It might be him. This one
:05:59. > :06:05.in the blackjack et. Hussan Dhuhulow left for somal why in 2009. --
:06:06. > :06:09.Somalia. So he hasn't seen his neighbour for about four years, but
:06:10. > :06:13.he points, without prompting to black shirt, apparently
:06:14. > :06:17.corroborating our other sources. He was pretty extreme. In what way? He
:06:18. > :06:24.was talking about the Koran all the time. So, he didn't like the way we
:06:25. > :06:31.lived here. His father told me that he didn't
:06:32. > :06:36.like the way it was going. Was his father worried about him, did you
:06:37. > :06:49.sense? Yes, he was worried. What did he say? He was talking about -- when
:06:50. > :06:52.he was small, he was fighting with his school friends. He was in
:06:53. > :06:58.trouble in school. There are other links, too, between Norway and
:06:59. > :07:03.Somalia. Two weeks after Westgate, US Navy Seal Team 6. The same guys
:07:04. > :07:07.that took out Osama Bin Laden, carried out an ambitious raid on a
:07:08. > :07:14.small town on the Somali coast. Their target was a senior Al-Shabab
:07:15. > :07:19.operator who goes by the name of Ikrema. The raid wasn't a success,
:07:20. > :07:23.the Americans didn't get the man but he is understood to be a senior
:07:24. > :07:29.recruiter of foreign fighters for Al-Shabab and he spent time here in
:07:30. > :07:34.Norway. Between 20 and 30 Norwegian citizens, almost exclusively of
:07:35. > :07:38.Somali origin, are thought to have travelled to East Africa to join the
:07:39. > :07:44.fight. Of particular concern is a group known as Generation 1.5, those
:07:45. > :07:49.who were born in Somalia, but came to Norway at a relatively young age.
:07:50. > :07:53.They need people that really are quite ignorant on Somalia, which is
:07:54. > :07:57.dangerous. Because that will give them a more internationalist agenda
:07:58. > :08:00.against these people and it might also make them more dangerous when
:08:01. > :08:05.they return back to their home countries. There is a sizeable
:08:06. > :08:10.Somali community here. Attempts to help them integrate into Norwegian
:08:11. > :08:15.society have had mixed results. This man is a success story. Like Hussan
:08:16. > :08:19.Dhuhulow, he came to Norway at the age of nine. But today he holds a
:08:20. > :08:24.seat on Oslo City Council. He says he knows many who feel alienated in
:08:25. > :08:32.their adopted homeland. I have seen people who I know - not
:08:33. > :08:40.my close friends - that have been radicalised, that have been changed
:08:41. > :08:45.a lot. Some people who I know or I know their parents who have
:08:46. > :08:50.travelled back and, yes, I have... Who travelled back specifically to
:08:51. > :08:53.fight? Yes, to fight. Here in Larvik, few people are willing to
:08:54. > :08:57.talk openly about Hussan Dhuhulow. We have, though, spoken to one
:08:58. > :09:02.family member, who didn't want to go on camera. But they spoke of
:09:03. > :09:07.infrequent and erratic phonecalls home, each time from a different
:09:08. > :09:12.Somali mobile number. The last time he called, they said, was this
:09:13. > :09:19.summer. He said he was in trouble and wanted to come home. Larvik's
:09:20. > :09:22.Somalis came together this week to celebrate Eid. But this is a
:09:23. > :09:26.community under pressure. This police had, we understand, been
:09:27. > :09:32.keeping tabs on Hussan Dhuhulow for quite some time. We showed the CCTV
:09:33. > :09:38.footage to his relative. "I don't know what to think or feel", they
:09:39. > :09:42.said, "If it is him, he must have been brain washed.
:09:43. > :09:45.With James Ferguson is the author of World's Most Dangerous Place a book
:09:46. > :09:49.about Somalia and the terrorist group, Al-Shabab that is based
:09:50. > :09:51.there. Are you surprised by this discovery? Not really. I this I it
:09:52. > :09:55.fits the profile. This has been going on for sometime. We know that
:09:56. > :09:58.there are - there is a brigade of international fighters with
:09:59. > :10:03.Al-Shabab from all over Europe, from America and Canada. This happens to
:10:04. > :10:09.be from Norway but not so very surprising, no. This one is believed
:10:10. > :10:12.to be from Norway. He's representative of the general
:10:13. > :10:15.disaffection in the Somali communities, or what? I think we
:10:16. > :10:20.need to be very careful about that and not to demonise the entire
:10:21. > :10:24.community. The diaspora is enormous there are something like 2 million
:10:25. > :10:28.Somalis living outside Somalia proper. 22,000 in Norway. Far more
:10:29. > :10:31.in this country. The vast majority are not potential terrorists. I want
:10:32. > :10:36.to stress that. But there are a significant number who might be.
:10:37. > :10:40.They have been going back to fight for Al-Shabab for some time in some
:10:41. > :10:45.numbers. When you say "some numbers", what do you mean? Well
:10:46. > :10:51.last year the Royal United Services Institute suggested there were 200
:10:52. > :10:55.fighters, fighting for Al-Shabab, of woman, 50 are British. We know in
:10:56. > :10:59.the States 48 American Sol alleys have gone back to fight for
:11:00. > :11:03.Al-Shabab for the last five or six years and so on. A population of
:11:04. > :11:07.22,000 in Norway t would be surprising if thereby weren't some,
:11:08. > :11:11.among a population of that size, who were also enticed back to fight. You
:11:12. > :11:16.say the biggest European Community in this this country? By far. No-one
:11:17. > :11:20.quite knows. The official census is something like 108,000 but actually
:11:21. > :11:24.if you ask the police they say 200,000 or 300,000 British Somalis
:11:25. > :11:29.here. It is not quite clear how many. But it is very large and by
:11:30. > :11:33.fart largest in Europe. Presumably they come and go, these young men
:11:34. > :11:37.who are going to see action or... Correct, yes. Or exercise an
:11:38. > :11:40.affiliation with Al-Shabab in some way. They are British passport
:11:41. > :11:45.holders. There is a lot of traffic. They are entitled to come and G the
:11:46. > :11:50.diaspora is very much engaged with its home country. There are so many
:11:51. > :11:54.Somalis going back to Mogadishu now because things are getting better
:11:55. > :11:58.and there is a minor property boom and people are going back to build
:11:59. > :12:01.stuff there. This is what worries the security forces here, of course
:12:02. > :12:06.it does. The danger is someone goes back to Somalia, getss weapons'
:12:07. > :12:10.training and explosives' training and come backs on a European
:12:11. > :12:18.passport, back into Europe and does something here. That's the great
:12:19. > :12:22.fear. Thank you very much. Another of the big energy companies hiked
:12:23. > :12:25.its prices today. Centrica, owner of British Gas, is going to charge
:12:26. > :12:30.customers over another 9% a year on average for gas and electricity.
:12:31. > :12:32.That is more than three times the rate of inflation. The Prime
:12:33. > :12:35.Miinister used the unenergetic adjective "disappointing" to
:12:36. > :12:38.describe the price rises. As for doing anything about it, the advice
:12:39. > :12:41.remains the same - shop around. This is - no pun intended - a
:12:42. > :12:45.highly-charged issue - because Labour has promised to cap energy
:12:46. > :12:48.costs for a while if elected. The companies themselves blame
:12:49. > :12:55.Government taxes and obligations. Andy Verity reports. British Gas is
:12:56. > :13:00.advertising today for a new social media manager. Successful applicants
:13:01. > :13:06.may have to inviet customers on Twitter to hashtag "ask BG" but with
:13:07. > :13:10.these tweets after their price-rise today would you take the job? Which
:13:11. > :13:14.items of furniture do you you in your humble opinion think people
:13:15. > :13:19.should burn first this winteder? British Gas, freezing pensioners,
:13:20. > :13:23.not prices. Do the British Gas board prefer to a bit in ?20 or ?50 notes.
:13:24. > :13:28.When you tell 8 million households they'll pay ?100 million extra a
:13:29. > :13:32.year for their energy, there is no problem generating heat. These are
:13:33. > :13:36.very disappointing announcements by British Gas. There are things we can
:13:37. > :13:40.do and we are intervening. We are legislating to say these companies
:13:41. > :13:44.have to put their customers on to the lowest tar Eve. I think we need
:13:45. > :13:47.relief from rising energy prices and a Government to stand up to the
:13:48. > :13:51.energy companies and fix the broken market. Why are these prices going
:13:52. > :13:54.up? Because we have a market that's not working and companies that are
:13:55. > :14:00.over-charging people. Against that blizzard of public
:14:01. > :14:06.criticism, ask BG sought shelter in a fact: does the big bad energy
:14:07. > :14:09.company have a pint? The power companies point out most of the
:14:10. > :14:13.costs pushing your bill up aren't within their control. If the market
:14:14. > :14:17.price rises they have to pay it, but, they point out, theres a chunk
:14:18. > :14:21.of your bill which is under politicians' control.
:14:22. > :14:25.Government-imposed costs like subsidising the likes of that.
:14:26. > :14:29.If you have given down the M4 near reading you might recognise this.
:14:30. > :14:34.When the wind is too high it can't general rate electricity. Too low
:14:35. > :14:38.and it won't generate much. Running at 16% of its capacity it is one of
:14:39. > :14:43.the least effective wind turbines in the company. As with half of the
:14:44. > :14:46.turbines, half its income comes from subsidies. -- as with other
:14:47. > :14:51.turbines. They are not driving down costs or
:14:52. > :14:54.providing an alternative to cool the developing world. It is
:14:55. > :14:58.counter-productive. Is it this that brings misery to your letterbox when
:14:59. > :15:03.the bill arrives? Well actually you will pay more for this, a British
:15:04. > :15:07.Gas campaign under a the so-called eco-scheme. The inner joy company's
:15:08. > :15:10.obligation forces firms to hit targets for helping people on low
:15:11. > :15:15.incomes or old draftee homes but first they have to find them. They
:15:16. > :15:20.cannot use data from the benefits' system because of privacy laws, so
:15:21. > :15:24.it costs hundreds of pounds to find each needy household, you pay. For
:15:25. > :15:29.those who prefer light to heat this is what it does to your bill. Now it
:15:30. > :15:34.is the blue slice, 9% of the bill or ?112. Of, that the biggest amount,
:15:35. > :15:39.?57, subsidises insulation and new boilers for hard-pressed households.
:15:40. > :15:43.?11 bays for rebates to 2 million people in fuel poverty, the
:15:44. > :15:47.warm-home discount. ?7 rewards households that generate energy from
:15:48. > :15:54.wind turbines and solar panels. ?8 is what firms are forced to pay for
:15:55. > :15:59.permits to emit carbon. ?5 is to keep the price of carbon up and ?3
:16:00. > :16:05.for smart betters and better building. -- for smart metres.
:16:06. > :16:09.And 2% of the bill goes on windfarms.
:16:10. > :16:14.In five-year's time your bill-money won't be paying to subsidise these,
:16:15. > :16:17.you will also be paying nuclear generators to produce energy at far
:16:18. > :16:25.more than the market price. You can buy wholesale electricity at a
:16:26. > :16:31.market price of ?52 per mega Watt hour but reports today say you'll Jo
:16:32. > :16:37.v to pay nuclear generators nearly double the market price which will
:16:38. > :16:41.come off your bill. The renewables have made everything else
:16:42. > :16:45.uncompetitive. Not make a living S nuclear economic? Nobody knows, what
:16:46. > :16:50.we know is they can't make a living in this distorted market. They want
:16:51. > :16:54.a subsidy. Ever wants a subsidy because renewables have a subsidy.
:16:55. > :16:59.-- ever. These are the Government's figures showing the total effect of
:17:00. > :17:07.all the policies on your bill. This year they'll add 17%. In 2020,
:17:08. > :17:10.they'll add, 33% and by 2040, it'll be 41%. Politicians don't all blame
:17:11. > :17:13.the power companies. This whole George Osborne criticism of green
:17:14. > :17:20.taxes is extraordinary. Because it was George Osborne and the Tories
:17:21. > :17:22.who insisted on putting a cashen price floor in the coalition
:17:23. > :17:25.agreement. The Liberal Democrats didn't want T the Department of
:17:26. > :17:31.energy and climate change didn't need it to make sure the electricity
:17:32. > :17:34.sector decarbonises. It was a straight revenue-raising measure. It
:17:35. > :17:38.is utter hypocrisy on the part of George Osborne. He caught to trap T
:17:39. > :17:43.The institute for fiscal studies say green taxes on bills is so high it
:17:44. > :17:48.is as if VAT was paid at the top rate.
:17:49. > :17:53.Companies are paying things like the climate change levy they are clearly
:17:54. > :17:57.paying the European emission trading scheme costs, and they are paying
:17:58. > :18:00.this thing called the carbon-reduction commitment. Of
:18:01. > :18:03.course, someone has it pay for that. It maybe that we'll pay higher
:18:04. > :18:08.prices. It maybe that the profits of the companies are lower. It maybe
:18:09. > :18:11.that their workers are earning less. Those effects, whilst hidden, in
:18:12. > :18:15.terms of households, are there. The man proposing to freeze bills once
:18:16. > :18:18.imposed new green taxes and his opposition counted part supported
:18:19. > :18:23.him. Those policies were designed the make energy more expensive. The
:18:24. > :18:27.trouble s they succeeded. -- the trouble is.
:18:28. > :18:30.In a moment the energy secretary, the Liberal Democrat, Ed Davey but
:18:31. > :18:33.first Caroline Flint, the Labour shadow. What is it that you think
:18:34. > :18:38.that bill pay remembers having it pay for that they shouldn't? -- bill
:18:39. > :18:43.payers? They are being over-charged. We have looked closely at the
:18:44. > :18:46.wholesale costs of electricity and gas over the last four years. We saw
:18:47. > :18:50.they went down substantially in 2009. It was never reflected in
:18:51. > :18:53.bills and the mark-up between wholesale costs and the retail
:18:54. > :18:57.price, we reckon about two-thirds cannot be accounted for. One-third
:18:58. > :19:03.is issues around the green levies and installations. What is it they
:19:04. > :19:07.shouldn't be having it pay for? The bill payers? Yes. What they should
:19:08. > :19:11.be paying for. What they should not be paying for? Well, what they
:19:12. > :19:14.shouldn't be paying for is unreasonable profits that the energy
:19:15. > :19:16.companies are making. And you determine whether they are
:19:17. > :19:20.reasonable or not, do you? Well, we have looked very closely, Jeremy, at
:19:21. > :19:24.the wholesale costs. Because that's something that the energy companies
:19:25. > :19:27.always tell us, put up prices. We believe, looking at the evidence,
:19:28. > :19:32.that actually, there is no case for that. But the truth is, we need to
:19:33. > :19:35.reform this market because we have a vertically integrated structure
:19:36. > :19:40.which means these companies create energy, renewables, gas, other forms
:19:41. > :19:44.of energy, nuclear, sell it to themselves and sell it on to us. We
:19:45. > :19:49.want to break it open. You are perfectly happy with bill payers
:19:50. > :19:53.paying for green energy, paying an insulation subsidy and all that sort
:19:54. > :19:56.of thing? I think it is the case - from nationalisation from
:19:57. > :19:59.privatisation, there has always been some sort of social tariff or
:20:00. > :20:03.obligation to help the fuel poor. You are happy with it. I think it is
:20:04. > :20:06.a good thing to help people insulate homes. On the green levies, a
:20:07. > :20:11.fraction of the bill, something like only 5% or even less of the bill, it
:20:12. > :20:15.is about investment in our future. But you are happy with that I'm
:20:16. > :20:19.happy with investing in a cleaner... It is the profit you object to I
:20:20. > :20:24.object to the distortionist market we have with six companies
:20:25. > :20:27.dominating it. If you feel strongly why don't you advocate
:20:28. > :20:32.re-nationalisation? I don't think that is he at answer either. I think
:20:33. > :20:36.it it is about making the market transparent and competitive. If you
:20:37. > :20:41.look at the big six they reflect where regional mob op poise under
:20:42. > :20:44.nationalisation. -- monopolies. How can it be transparent if you in
:20:45. > :20:49.Government are setting the price? We are saying we will have a temporary
:20:50. > :20:52.freeze for 20 months which one, recognises over-charging but two,
:20:53. > :20:56.allows us to bring in legislation to reform the market. You speak on
:20:57. > :21:00.behalf of the party that in Government saw the average energy
:21:01. > :21:03.bill double? They did go up but they are going up at three times the rate
:21:04. > :21:10.in the last three years as we have seen bills go up by ?300 and ?400.
:21:11. > :21:12.Which is why we recognise, that spanning several governments,
:21:13. > :21:16.including our own, something has gone wrong with this market and why
:21:17. > :21:19.we have come to the view that it needs to be changed. That means
:21:20. > :21:24.reorganising the way this, McEt works, opening it up -- market.
:21:25. > :21:27.Breaking it down and having a power exchange where all energy is in an
:21:28. > :21:31.open space where energy can be bought and sold on to us. To be
:21:32. > :21:36.clear about this - you would fix the market because you would set what
:21:37. > :21:40.price could be laid. You would also continue to pass on to bill-payers,
:21:41. > :21:43.the charges that Government is currently loafying, both of those
:21:44. > :21:48.things are true, are they? -- levying? We would have having a
:21:49. > :21:51.temporary price freeze but would give a new regulator the power to
:21:52. > :21:55.monitor more closely the wholesale costs and if they fall and those
:21:56. > :21:59.reductions aren't reflected in the bills a new regulator would have the
:22:00. > :22:02.power to force those companies to pass that reduction on. But I have
:22:03. > :22:05.to say, whilst it is quite right that we keep a close eye on
:22:06. > :22:09.subsidies for renewables and nuclear, and make sure we are
:22:10. > :22:13.getting a fair deal. While it is quite right that we should keep
:22:14. > :22:16.under review the money we ask bill payers to support to energy
:22:17. > :22:20.efficiency schemes, they have to be part of what will be a cleaner and
:22:21. > :22:25.cheaper future in terms of our energy supply. Thank you.
:22:26. > :22:28.Well, Ed Davey is here now, the energy secretary.
:22:29. > :22:33.What is your advice to people who may have a genuine belief they
:22:34. > :22:38.cannot pay these new bills? Well, I do think they can switch. We have
:22:39. > :22:42.seen a big increase in competition under this coalition government. We
:22:43. > :22:44.have deregulated. There are now eight independent suppliers
:22:45. > :22:49.challenging the big six thanks to our approximately sis. People can
:22:50. > :22:52.make big savings. -- policies. Which companies should they switch to?
:22:53. > :22:56.Well there are eight independent suppliers. They are on the uSwitch
:22:57. > :22:59.website. People can go and see them and can see the energy advice
:23:00. > :23:03.available on our hotline. Given what we know of how the energy companies
:23:04. > :23:06.behave, only a fool would change from a company which has already
:23:07. > :23:10.raised its price to one which is about to do so, when they don't know
:23:11. > :23:13.what they are going to raise to it. To. If you look now, you will find
:23:14. > :23:21.one company will allow you to fix for two years to April 2015, and on
:23:22. > :23:25.the British Gas tar Eve, before this tariff. You could have saved ?150.
:23:26. > :23:29.After this price rise you will be able to save ?250. So there are some
:23:30. > :23:32.really big savings to be had out there, thanks to the competition
:23:33. > :23:36.that we have now got into the market. When did you last switch
:23:37. > :23:41.your energy supplier? Earlier this year Who did you switch to
:23:42. > :23:44.Sainsbury?s energy. I did the big London energy switch. Hour idea, to
:23:45. > :23:48.enable people to come together to get a better deal in the market,
:23:49. > :23:53.pulling the purchasing power. I was part of that and saved over ?200.
:23:54. > :23:58.What do you set your thermostat to at home? I'm not absolutely sure, to
:23:59. > :24:03.be honest, Jeremy. My wife tends to take care of that. But do you advise
:24:04. > :24:06.- you do give advice, don't you? You say there is no need to overheat
:24:07. > :24:09.your home or have the air conditioning on, if you have air
:24:10. > :24:14.conditioning. You do. What do you recommend? Well, to my wife or... ?
:24:15. > :24:19.What is a sensible temperature for people to have in their home? A lot
:24:20. > :24:22.depends on, of course, the building and the insulation because what we
:24:23. > :24:26.are trying to say is insulate your home more. Do things like the green
:24:27. > :24:30.deal, use the energy company obligations, so if you insulate your
:24:31. > :24:34.home more you can turn heating down. Are people too accustomed not to
:24:35. > :24:39.wear jumpers? Well, I'm sure people wear jumpers. I wear jumpers at
:24:40. > :24:42.home. You do? You are missing the point here. We need to help people
:24:43. > :24:45.with the bills. I am extremely worried about them. We can use
:24:46. > :24:50.competition the way we have but we can make our homes warmer and we can
:24:51. > :24:53.use less electricity and goes by going energy efficient and that's
:24:54. > :24:58.what the Government is trying to do. About 17% of these bills is
:24:59. > :25:04.Government charges, right? No. What is it? 4% is the green levies and 5%
:25:05. > :25:07.is the social charges on things like fuel poverty, helping the poorest in
:25:08. > :25:12.our society manage their bitches I'm very supportive of those. I'm also
:25:13. > :25:18.-- manage their bills. I'm very supportive of those.
:25:19. > :25:21.What about nuclear? I hope to make an announcement shortly about that.
:25:22. > :25:26.That will raise the price of energy, won't it? The first time a nuclear
:25:27. > :25:31.power station is likely to be generating is in the next decade,
:25:32. > :25:35.possibly even as far as ten years ahead. If it is that far ahead, we
:25:36. > :25:39.won't be paying for that nuclear energy for ten years' time. When we
:25:40. > :25:44.do pay, we'll be in quite a different world. We'll probably see
:25:45. > :25:47.higher gas prices. We will see carbon prices. And therefore, it is
:25:48. > :25:52.quite likely and I hope to be able to set this out in due course, that
:25:53. > :25:54.nuclear can be very xetedtive. Why -- competitive.
:25:55. > :25:58.Why do you believe that people who are paying bills should pay for all
:25:59. > :26:02.of this, as opposed to the taxpayer? Well, it does make sense through the
:26:03. > :26:08.energy industry rather than the taxpayer paying it. If it was paid
:26:09. > :26:12.by the taxpayer there would be something progressive about it? We
:26:13. > :26:15.get progressivity and fairness in the system through thingses called
:26:16. > :26:20.the warm home discount. 2 million of the most vulnerable people in the
:26:21. > :26:24.society, over a million of the poorest pensioners get money, ?135
:26:25. > :26:28.directly off their bill and that produces fairness in the way we
:26:29. > :26:31.balance our social and our environmental policies. Do you think
:26:32. > :26:35.the system is working well? We need more competition. We inherited from
:26:36. > :26:39.the last lot, the big six. We think the big six have been a real problem
:26:40. > :26:44.and that's why we have deregulated. We have now got eight - your
:26:45. > :26:47.eyebrows are going up. The question was whether you think the system is
:26:48. > :26:52.working well? It is working better. We need to do more. It is not
:26:53. > :26:57.working well, then? Well, it's been working better since we improved
:26:58. > :27:01.competition in our energy bill before Parliament we are helping to
:27:02. > :27:05.simplify tariffs, to make bills simpler and get more competition in
:27:06. > :27:09.the wholesale market. I'm not satisfied at all. I think what we
:27:10. > :27:12.inherited before was not good enough. We are dramatically
:27:13. > :27:16.increasing competition. It be isn't just a case of what you inherited,
:27:17. > :27:21.though, is it? I mean you, for example, set the carbon floor,
:27:22. > :27:24.didn't you? We did indeed. And as Chris Huhne has testified in that
:27:25. > :27:28.piece of tape we saw a moment ago, that was something that was insisted
:27:29. > :27:35.upon by George Osborne, was agreed to by you, and which has raised
:27:36. > :27:39.bills. Is Well, it is about 1%, slightly less. I don't think you can
:27:40. > :27:44.put all of prices on to that. The money is not being spent upon
:27:45. > :27:48.energy. It is being given to the Treasury? Well, it is very important
:27:49. > :27:51.to send a very important price signal to investors in low carbon.
:27:52. > :27:55.What we are seeing - and this is the other missing part of the equation -
:27:56. > :28:00.how much investment have we seen? We have seen ?35 billion of investment
:28:01. > :28:03.in clean energy and electricity infrastructure. We need that
:28:04. > :28:06.investment urgently. We have an energy security problem in this
:28:07. > :28:10.country. You can read reports about it. Why do we have that problem?
:28:11. > :28:12.Because we have had over a decade-and-a-half without that
:28:13. > :28:17.investment. The coalition government is turning that be around. We are
:28:18. > :28:20.now seeing tens of billions of pounds in investment. I can say to
:28:21. > :28:23.you - under this Government - we will be able to keep the lights on
:28:24. > :28:26.and we will be making investments for the future. Not only will bills
:28:27. > :28:29.be lower in the future because of the investments we are making but we
:28:30. > :28:31.can have energy security in this country.
:28:32. > :28:36.Thank you very much. Now, there isn'ted a mainstream --
:28:37. > :28:40.isn't a mainstream politician who speaks out against social mobility
:28:41. > :28:45.even if it means for every rung of life's ladder that one person climbs
:28:46. > :28:48.so someone else must suffer a fall but for all the bluster, the
:28:49. > :28:53.Government stands accused by the very people it asks to assess its
:28:54. > :28:59.performance of willing the ends but not the means. The minimum wage is
:29:00. > :29:03.too-low. Two-thirds of children defined as in poverty are in a
:29:04. > :29:07.family that works. Jim Re, d reports.
:29:08. > :29:12.-- Reed. 46 years ago this end-of-terraced
:29:13. > :29:16.home kick-started a quiet revolution. A brick layer from
:29:17. > :29:21.Romford became the first tenant it buy his house from the Greater
:29:22. > :29:25.London Council. -- to buy. 2 million sales later and for many,
:29:26. > :29:31.home-ownership in estates like this is still a sign of aspiration, of
:29:32. > :29:36.getting ahead. This man, Jim Reagan paid just ?2,500 for his home in
:29:37. > :29:42.1967. Less than twice his annual income. Matching his father make
:29:43. > :29:47.history was son Mick, filmed here as a 20-year-old.
:29:48. > :29:54.Four decades later, we brought him back to his childhood home. London
:29:55. > :30:01.was changing and all we had was a garden with chickens in. A pub in a
:30:02. > :30:06.corner. No grass in the garden. They all came around, the media and press
:30:07. > :30:11.and had tea and sandwiches. It was embarrassing. I think, at the time,
:30:12. > :30:16.being a working man, it was a step up the ladder but it was security
:30:17. > :30:21.for me and my brother Danny. He now lives in Peterborough. For us to say
:30:22. > :30:25.-- if anything went wrong, we would be safe for the future. That's all
:30:26. > :30:29.really. By working hard, saving and buying their own council house the
:30:30. > :30:33.likes of Jim Reagan and millions of others felt they were investigating,
:30:34. > :30:38.building a better life for themselves and their families. What
:30:39. > :30:42.today's report in all it's 348 pages is saying is that those days have
:30:43. > :30:47.gone and even many working parents will struggle to pull themselves out
:30:48. > :30:51.of poverty. The transient poverty that's
:30:52. > :30:54.stalling mobility is now a big problem, not just for low income
:30:55. > :30:59.families but for middle income families. Many of those parents are
:31:00. > :31:02.feeling that for the fist time in a century, their children when they
:31:03. > :31:07.grow up, will have lowest living standards than they have enjoyed.
:31:08. > :31:12.Sadly, that prospect, may well come to pass. The message today was that
:31:13. > :31:16.hard work is no longer the clear route out of poverty it once was.
:31:17. > :31:22.Most children living in households considered to be poor now have at
:31:23. > :31:27.least one parent in a job. Over the last 15 years wages have
:31:28. > :31:31.simply not kept up with economic growth. Weekly earnings are now
:31:32. > :31:40.lower in real terms than they were back in 1996. -- 1997.
:31:41. > :31:45.Consider We have seen a flatlining of earnings and incomes, for a large
:31:46. > :31:49.part of society. The growth we saw in the pre-crisis jeers was very
:31:50. > :31:52.much skewed and concentrated in the hands of a minority at the time.
:31:53. > :31:55.That was to do with the industrial structure we had with
:31:56. > :31:59.financialisation and the dominance of the financial services industry.
:32:00. > :32:03.It is also down to global trends which means we have a growing
:32:04. > :32:08.Polarisation of the labour market. High rewards for high-skilled jobs,
:32:09. > :32:13.low rewards for low-skilled jobs and a hollowing out in the middle. The
:32:14. > :32:18.the first-ever council house sold has changed with the times. The
:32:19. > :32:23.two-bed semi seen in 1967 has been extended three times and is now a
:32:24. > :32:27.six bedroom house worth over ?300,000. Jim Reagan sold his
:32:28. > :32:32.council house own. It's now owned by Joseph and Nicola Duffield. They
:32:33. > :32:37.might live in a six-bedroom property but they sthar with elderly parents
:32:38. > :32:43.and two sons in their 20s who can't yet buy their own place. -- but they
:32:44. > :32:47.share it. For us there was jobs. You could work from one to the next. If
:32:48. > :32:51.you wanted overtime you could do it. That's what we Z it didn't matter
:32:52. > :32:55.how many hours we worked, so long as we paid everything I was willing to
:32:56. > :32:58.do that. But the youngsters today don't have that opportunity. There
:32:59. > :33:03.is not the jobs, you are right. There is not the jobs now. If they
:33:04. > :33:09.are in the opportunity where they can do more hours for al-Muntasser,
:33:10. > :33:12.that's -- more hours for more money that is how they can get on to the
:33:13. > :33:17.property ladder but they are not there. Everything has changed. It is
:33:18. > :33:21.a changed world. Social mobility can't be measured just by
:33:22. > :33:26.home-ownership, of course. Today's report recommends raising the
:33:27. > :33:29.minimum wage and shifting welfare payments from some pensioners to
:33:30. > :33:33.working families to close what the author's call the country's fairness
:33:34. > :33:37.deficit. Joining us now is the author and
:33:38. > :33:40.columnist, Bidisha and David skeleton founder of a think-tank
:33:41. > :33:44.trying to make the Tories more appealing to working-class voteders.
:33:45. > :33:50.This is a really striking finding, that work is no longer the way out
:33:51. > :33:55.of poverty, the way you can make yourself socially upwardly mobile.
:33:56. > :33:59.What has gone wrong? For me what it shows is more needs to be done to
:34:00. > :34:02.ensure that, as hasn't been the case for the past 15 years, that wages
:34:03. > :34:06.keep up with prices. But, also, it shows, over the past few decades,
:34:07. > :34:11.our education system has quite simply failed some of the poorest in
:34:12. > :34:15.society. In the long term, what we have to do is boost our skills.
:34:16. > :34:19.That's the only way to really increase earnings, over a long term
:34:20. > :34:23.and really boost social mobility. What do you think has gone wrong? I
:34:24. > :34:26.think it is an incredibly striking report. I second what you say but
:34:27. > :34:31.this is about the fundamentals, isn't it? What this reports does is
:34:32. > :34:36.look ahead to the generation who are now 10, 11, and 12. What future are
:34:37. > :34:40.we giving them? Where do we need it put the money? Education, health
:34:41. > :34:44.care, childcare, disability benefit. The classic things. What is so
:34:45. > :34:49.interesting about this report, is that it makes visible the invisible.
:34:50. > :34:55.It looks ahead to 2020 where there will be 2 million children living in
:34:56. > :35:01.poverty. 15% of working-age adults, 16% of pensioners, it is a very
:35:02. > :35:06.striking and damning prognosis. And work not being the way out
:35:07. > :35:10.Absolutely and there being all sorts of other obstacles. Work is not the
:35:11. > :35:14.way out. If you want a university education, it is expensive. You may
:35:15. > :35:17.not be able to find a job when you get to the end of it. It is also
:35:18. > :35:21.about empowering those people who aren't at the stage of thinking - I
:35:22. > :35:25.want to go to a great school and top university. It is about saying -
:35:26. > :35:30.where are the apprenticeships? If you get a job that doesn't require a
:35:31. > :35:36.degree, will you be paid a wage, even the minimum wage, that is
:35:37. > :35:39.liveable? This is a really bleak and depressing future? Which for me show
:35:40. > :35:42.the importance of education reform which is the only way out in the
:35:43. > :35:47.long term. We should think about ways of increasing the minimum wage
:35:48. > :35:50.if we can safeguard jobs by reforming the tax system but in the
:35:51. > :35:54.long term we need to make sure we reform education so that people from
:35:55. > :35:58.the poorest parts of society do get this opportunity. I'm passionate
:35:59. > :36:04.about this. I went to a school where only 10% of people were getting five
:36:05. > :36:08.good A to Cs but there were so many great people but they weren't
:36:09. > :36:12.allowed to make the most of their potential. It is important to reform
:36:13. > :36:16.education to make sure people can make the most of their potential and
:36:17. > :36:21.we build more houses so people can get on the housing ladder. What
:36:22. > :36:25.about the report saying that the cards aren't being dealt evenly, as
:36:26. > :36:34.between the old and too much that the young are getting too much and
:36:35. > :36:36.the old too little I absolutely disagree with some of the
:36:37. > :36:41.recommendation of the report which is that we look at the furthest
:36:42. > :36:46.edges of society and say to the mythical rich - OK you don't have
:36:47. > :36:49.to... But there are some. Yes but that's not the answer. If you want
:36:50. > :36:53.education reform. If you want long-term reform of all of other
:36:54. > :36:56.things we care about in society - which by the way we have been
:36:57. > :37:00.talking about for 20 years - you raise money. How do you do that? You
:37:01. > :37:04.don't penalise pensioners, regardless of whether they are rich,
:37:05. > :37:07.poor or medium. You raise money by taxing those individuals who are
:37:08. > :37:14.still working and those corporations who are making millions and you tax
:37:15. > :37:19.them by 0.5% more. I almost made a Freudian slip by saying 5% more,
:37:20. > :37:22.which is secretly what I think. But 0.5% and that will raise the money.
:37:23. > :37:26.You can't go through the rigmarole to find the rich pensioners and get
:37:27. > :37:31.their TV licence money back off them. When we talk about social
:37:32. > :37:35.mobility, assuming we fleed mobilitied upwards -- we moon
:37:36. > :37:39.mobility upwards. Presumably there are some people who are socially
:37:40. > :37:43.mobile downwards. Is that a problem? Not necessarily. I think social
:37:44. > :37:46.mobility is about making the most out of their potential. For me the
:37:47. > :37:51.problem is you have people at the age of five... If somebody goes up,
:37:52. > :37:56.somebody else has to come down. You need people to make the most out of
:37:57. > :38:01.their potential. At five the vocabulary gap between swung brought
:38:02. > :38:06.up in a poor or rich household is about one year. We need to think
:38:07. > :38:10.about that and make sure the people make the most out of their
:38:11. > :38:14.potential. But for that to happen society needs to be more flat,
:38:15. > :38:17.doesn't it? Not at all. If you look at the dynamic successful socially
:38:18. > :38:21.mobile societies in the world they are not more flat but they are
:38:22. > :38:27.prosperous. What is the model? There are various. What are they? If you
:38:28. > :38:29.look at Sweden, Sweden has done education and welfare reform over
:38:30. > :38:34.the past few years, because the flatter model wasn't working for it.
:38:35. > :38:37.So, the model which is - socially mobile and economically prosperous
:38:38. > :38:42.is what we are looking for. Can I say something - which is... Of
:38:43. > :38:46.course you can, that's why you are here. It is not bh flatness. I think
:38:47. > :38:51.the model has to be more flexible. It bothers me when I sea see reports
:38:52. > :38:54.saying two-thirds of people living under the poverty line, one parent
:38:55. > :38:57.works. What that means is they work outside the home. It means the other
:38:58. > :39:03.parent is doing the childcare which is a huge amount of work done for
:39:04. > :39:07.free. We are getting on to an entirely different subject. I am not
:39:08. > :39:11.about to do that. Of what is it that is keeping them home if they want to
:39:12. > :39:14.work? It is the lack of meaningful and worthwhile well-remunerated
:39:15. > :39:17.flexible work. They know if they work outside the home, they can't
:39:18. > :39:19.afford the childcare. Thank you both very much.
:39:20. > :39:24.Now to the bit of the programme that I certainly have been waiting for.
:39:25. > :39:26.As no-one can read knows, the American novelist, Donna Tartt is
:39:27. > :39:30.one of the most exciting perpetrators of fiction in the
:39:31. > :39:36.world. The Seek re History somehow managed to be both an international
:39:37. > :39:40.best-seller and a cult classic. -- the Secret History. It came out 20
:39:41. > :39:47.years ago and her latest, only her third novel, the Goldfifshling is
:39:48. > :39:51.published next week. She rarely gives interviews. Kirsty leapt at
:39:52. > :39:55.the chance and leapt into a plane to New York.
:39:56. > :40:02.I can write anywhere. I can write curled newspaper a corner in a spare
:40:03. > :40:09.airchair -- armchair in somebody's house. I write on the Madison Avenue
:40:10. > :40:13.bus. I write all over the place. Always have been able to. In the
:40:14. > :40:20.bathtub. I can write anywhere. In the library? I can write in the
:40:21. > :40:26.library. I wrote a lot of Goldfinch in the New York Public Library. In
:40:27. > :40:33.the Allen Room there, which was wonderful. That because there were
:40:34. > :40:38.wrenches books. What makes the -- because there were reference books
:40:39. > :40:41.there? I know a lot of writers would be horrified to be in a public
:40:42. > :40:45.space. If you need a character all you have to do is look up at people
:40:46. > :40:51.walking back and forth and it is like being an artist sketching in
:40:52. > :40:57.the a sidewalk cafe. People, walk-on characters, everybody you need is
:40:58. > :41:02.right there. Of course, books - this was a book for which I had to read a
:41:03. > :41:06.lot. If you are at home, for example, if you are in the
:41:07. > :41:10.countryside, do you a a routine? Do you write every day? Every now and
:41:11. > :41:16.then life will intervene. I write every day. If I have guests I will
:41:17. > :41:24.slip away to my little room where I work and, always, yes. You are a
:41:25. > :41:27.net-taker, then, too? I ka area anotebook wherever I go -- I carry.
:41:28. > :41:34.If I don't write it down when I think of it, I will never think of
:41:35. > :41:38.it again. Most of my notes are "bits of the mind's string too short to
:41:39. > :41:45.use" which is a phrase that has been used. So many of my notes are bits
:41:46. > :41:49.and bobs and little magpie gleamings and glintings and they won't turn up
:41:50. > :41:53.in any piece of finished work. What about at night? Are you a night
:41:54. > :41:59.writer? I do. A night writer. I like that. I do. Well t depends - if I
:42:00. > :42:04.have had a hard day I will quit, I will knock-off and go do something
:42:05. > :42:08.else. But if I'm - if I'm on a run, doing well, I'm like a gambler, I
:42:09. > :42:12.don't want to get up from the table. You have written, then, if you are
:42:13. > :42:17.saying you write every day. Yes. You have more or less written solidly
:42:18. > :42:23.for the past 21 years. I have written solidly. But I have written
:42:24. > :42:29.solidly in scraps. Not every day do I sit down and write a tremendous
:42:30. > :42:33.block of finished prose. But I'm always fiddling around and writing
:42:34. > :42:39.little bit and bobs, sometimes when I'm out and about wane my notebook
:42:40. > :42:47.in a pocket it is bits and bobs. When I say I can write on the bus, I
:42:48. > :42:50.don't imagine I'm writing pages of finished proseb things will occur to
:42:51. > :42:54.me and very often they are the germs of things that will become pages of
:42:55. > :42:59.prose. That's writing too. Do you ever think you have made too many
:43:00. > :43:04.sacrifices for this? It is not a sacrifice. I feel lucky I'm able to
:43:05. > :43:07.devote this amount of time to doing doing what I do. It is what I think
:43:08. > :43:12.about all the time. I'm obsessed. Are you really? You seem quite
:43:13. > :43:18.balanced to me? Um, well - well, I mean you are encountering me when I
:43:19. > :43:22.have just finished a book, not in the middle. Maybe I wouldn't be
:43:23. > :43:29.quite so balanced when I'm working. In the same way as you hit great
:43:30. > :43:34.streaks. How do you hit bad streaks? Of? Of thinking - the last 50 pages
:43:35. > :43:39.I have to strike. Absolutely. There was a point in this book where I
:43:40. > :43:43.realised I had taken a bad turn and it was just about eight months of
:43:44. > :43:48.work. I realised to really get to where you knead to go, sometimes you
:43:49. > :43:54.must run through the other options. There was no way that I could have
:43:55. > :43:57.gotten to that point, had I not spent those eight months. They are
:43:58. > :44:01.invisible, not in the book but I needed to spend them in order to be
:44:02. > :44:05.where - to get to where I was, yeah. Does that mean that in that way you
:44:06. > :44:10.keep your sense of balance because you know it is not in vain?
:44:11. > :44:17.Hemingway used the metaphor of - and it is very correct - of an iceberg,
:44:18. > :44:20.even if you obviously only see it. With writing sometimes you only see
:44:21. > :44:24.the tip. Everything else will be cut but there is the sense of weight
:44:25. > :44:31.underneath the water. The real world is there, even though it's not going
:44:32. > :44:36.to be in fl verbatim, which you have done -- in there.
:44:37. > :44:41.But still I was lonely. It was Borris I missed. The whole impulsive
:44:42. > :44:48.mess of him, gloomy, reckless, hot tempered, I a Paulingly thoughtless.
:44:49. > :44:56.-- appallingly. Borris, peal pale and pasty, with his gnawed down
:44:57. > :45:00.finger nails. Borris, Budding alcohol influshes f fluent curser in
:45:01. > :45:05.four languages who snatched food from my plate when he felt like it
:45:06. > :45:09.and who nodded off on the floor, face red like he had been slapped.
:45:10. > :45:14.You want people to read your books. What do you want them to read them
:45:15. > :45:18.for? Fist, I want them to have fun. Reading is no good, unless it is
:45:19. > :45:23.fun. -- first. What I wallsant is - it is the one
:45:24. > :45:28.quality I look for in books. It is hard to find but I love that
:45:29. > :45:33.childhood quality of just that gleeful, greedy reading, can't get
:45:34. > :45:37.enough of it, what is happening to these people, the breathless turning
:45:38. > :45:41.of the pages. That's what I want in a book. But I also want something
:45:42. > :45:49.that's well-constructed, too. I like to be able to drop down. Dicksens
:45:50. > :45:53.goes so fast, like lightening, but at the same time any sentence you
:45:54. > :45:58.can lift up and it is a marvel and a miracle. So, to me, I want those two
:45:59. > :46:03.qualities. The two qualities of any great art. Density and speed.
:46:04. > :46:08.Density and speed. You also bring secrets. Your books are about
:46:09. > :46:12.secrets. I guess they are. I never thought about that. But all books
:46:13. > :46:16.have miseries at their heart. Every book has some secret. There is
:46:17. > :46:20.always a secret. Donna Tartt thank you very much. Thank you. That was
:46:21. > :46:26.Donna Tartt talking to Kirsty. A longer version of that interview for
:46:27. > :46:32.the Review Show is on the iPlayer. Tomorrow's front pages, many papers
:46:33. > :46:34.are interested in a speech by the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt b
:46:35. > :46:39.grandparents and old people being neglected. On the Mail, the
:46:40. > :46:42.Independent and Telegraph front pages and the Daily Mirror is
:46:43. > :46:46.exercised still about energy bills as is the Guardian.
:46:47. > :46:56.That's all from us for tonight. Before we g as if life wasn't
:46:57. > :47:08.miserable enough, Morrissy has revealed that he was once asked to
:47:09. > :47:13.play the part of Dot Cotton's son in EastEnders.
:47:14. > :47:16.Well, heavens to Betsy, we've only gone and found the screentest.
:47:17. > :47:39.# Heavens knows I'm miserable now... # Every day is like Sunday
:47:40. > :47:49.# Every day is like... # EASTENDERS THEME TUNE
:47:50. > :47:55.hello the potential for widespread fog first thing on Friday.
:47:56. > :47:59.A lotted of low cloud, the odd spot or two of rain. More significant
:48:00. > :48:02.rain guess in the west. It will be heavy and persistent perhaps into
:48:03. > :48:05.Northern Ireland. Really we are just looking at some bits and pieces of
:48:06. > :48:09.rain through western fringes of Scotland. A fair amount of cloud and
:48:10. > :48:12.still a chilly feel with the breeze coming from a north-westerly
:48:13. > :48:17.direction. Bits and pieces of rain as kro the Lake District and to the
:48:18. > :48:23.west of the Pennines. Head further east and it'll stay predominantly
:48:24. > :48:26.dry, quite mild. The odd spot or two of rain but nothing significant.
:48:27. > :48:32.Brightness along the south coast. The rain more persistent, albeit
:48:33. > :48:37.fairly patchy, the further south and west you come. Here mild with 15 or
:48:38. > :48:42.16 the high. A similar story for Wales. Overcast with showery
:48:43. > :48:45.outbreaks of rain. Rain moves north overnight Friday into Saturday. It
:48:46. > :48:51.tends to anchor itself across Scotland. Showers easing away from
:48:52. > :48:54.the south-east corner. Blustery showers across England, Wales and
:48:55. > :48:58.Northern Ireland for the start of the weekend. Let'slike at some of
:48:59. > :49:01.our major cities. For Scotland and northern England, Saturday will be
:49:02. > :49:05.the worst day, brighter and drier on Sunday. By contrast further south,
:49:06. > :49:08.lighter showers on Saturday. The showers become more heavier and
:49:09. > :49:10.perhaps frequent on Sunday.