:00:10. > :00:14.Uh-oh. Just like any other private sector organisation they have to
:00:15. > :00:18.look at how they get a grip on their pension costs. It is the biggest
:00:19. > :00:22.pension fund in the country with the biggest black hole. Almost ?8
:00:23. > :00:26.billion of a shortfall. It is the scheme for university teachers.
:00:27. > :00:29.Balancing the books could result in higher tuition fees. We will try to
:00:30. > :00:34.find out who will end up paying the bill. The death boats that lead some
:00:35. > :00:40.of the wretched of the earth to perish on the sea in sight of
:00:41. > :00:47.Europe. We tell one family's story. We called Allah hu Akbar. They fired
:00:48. > :00:54.at the hull of the boat and left. Water began leaking into the boat.
:00:55. > :01:00.And a blow for freedom or an act of desperation, newspaper publishers
:01:01. > :01:09.apply for a judicial review, a politician's efforts to set up a new
:01:10. > :01:16.press regulator. This matter was shaping up to be something
:01:17. > :01:22.wonderful, but then... Jeremy Clarkson might not like the Tesla
:01:23. > :01:28.electric car, but does the billionare behind it care. His two
:01:29. > :01:33.pet peeves are American cars and electric cars, we are an American
:01:34. > :01:38.electric car, we are in the worse possible situation for someone like
:01:39. > :01:47.him. The death of Anthony Caro who changed the face of British
:01:48. > :01:50.sculpture. Good evening, all kinds of pension
:01:51. > :01:54.funds have been in trouble in recent years, at least in part, because
:01:55. > :02:00.poor stock market performance has seen bad returns on investments. But
:02:01. > :02:09.the problems of the university superannuation SKEERJS or USS,
:02:10. > :02:16.dwarfs the rest. It faces a -- It faces a shortfall of billions. Using
:02:17. > :02:22.the private companies used it would have been ?10. 5 billion. It
:02:23. > :02:40.requires a rise in tuition fees of up to a thousand pounds a year.
:02:41. > :02:42.Drinks and canapes to celebrate exactly 50 years since the
:02:43. > :02:48.Government accepted the recommendations of this man, Lionel
:02:49. > :02:52.Robin, before his 1963 report only 5% of people went to university.
:02:53. > :02:56.After it university places trebled. With that went a big expansion in
:02:57. > :03:01.teaching staff, and also the cost of the pensions they were promised. The
:03:02. > :03:06.university superannuation scheme is now the biggest pension fund in the
:03:07. > :03:08.country, with gaping deficit. Here is what the university pension
:03:09. > :03:32.scheme told its 30003,000 -- 300,000 It has just 83% of the money it
:03:33. > :03:35.needs. Critics of the US S, as the
:03:36. > :03:39.university scheme is known, say its managers aren't doing anything like
:03:40. > :03:46.what they must do to close that black hole. There is a whole degree
:03:47. > :03:49.of denial, USS is in denial about its real financial position.
:03:50. > :03:53.Universities are in denial about the cost of pension promise, we have
:03:54. > :03:57.seen private sector pension schemes closing to new members and existing
:03:58. > :04:03.members wholesale over the last few years. USS can't stand up and say
:04:04. > :04:07.they have a real problem, they have been making too small contributions
:04:08. > :04:11.over the last few years. They have been running a very risky investment
:04:12. > :04:15.strategy, this is where it has got us and this is what we need to do.
:04:16. > :04:19.There will be reprecussions for the university sector, if we don't have
:04:20. > :04:23.the reprecussions now or over the next year years, we are giving a
:04:24. > :04:28.very big problem to our children. The thing about FENGSs is they span
:04:29. > :04:34.deck -- pensions is they span deck cautioused you are a member from the
:04:35. > :04:40.start to the day you die. Acties act trees have to make assumptions, at
:04:41. > :04:48.the stroke of an actuary's pen you can gain or win millions. What the
:04:49. > :04:52.actuaries know is what they will pay in future and how much money they
:04:53. > :04:56.have to pay the pensions. What they have to take a guess on is what the
:04:57. > :05:00.money will be worth by the time it is needed. They wave their pen and
:05:01. > :05:09.assume a growth rate. It will be either be enough to fulfil their
:05:10. > :05:16.promises, if not they will have a black hole. Actuaries for private
:05:17. > :05:21.firms have to follow a strict formula on working out the debt, FRS
:05:22. > :05:25.17, you have to assume growth based on market rate interest rates. It
:05:26. > :05:31.seems to me completely wrong, where as private sector KRNGS even public
:05:32. > :05:40.sector schemes have to come up with their figures on an FRS 17 basis,
:05:41. > :05:48.USS doesn't do that. That figure is picked out of the air. It is the
:05:49. > :05:53.actuary's magic person. He calculates the deficit at ?10. 5
:05:54. > :06:01.billion, and employers would have to throw a lot more money at the scheme
:06:02. > :06:06.to fix it. There is ?5 00 million coming from the universities, it
:06:07. > :06:15.needs to go up to ?1. 2 billion, the fees will have to go up by ?1,000,
:06:16. > :06:19.it is a ?1 thousand each undergraduate will have to pay for
:06:20. > :06:23.the next ten years. If tuition fees are forced up by that amount every
:06:24. > :06:29.year, the minister who knows about it is the minister for education,
:06:30. > :06:33.David Willetts, he has showed up at conference. Why don't I ask hi If
:06:34. > :06:39.you use the same figures the companies have to use, the deficit
:06:40. > :06:42.is ?10 billion. How do you react? I don't recognise the figure.
:06:43. > :06:47.Universities are autonomous bodies, and one of their financial
:06:48. > :06:53.responsibility is STRAN behind pension -- stand behind pensions.
:06:54. > :06:56.This will push up tuition fees by ?1,000, would you acknowledge these
:06:57. > :07:00.pressures on pensions would make tuition fees more expensive. It
:07:01. > :07:06.would be wrong to expect TU accidents to bail out pension --
:07:07. > :07:12.students to bail out pensions that are much more generous than they
:07:13. > :07:15.will enjoy when in work. If higher contributions are needed, how will
:07:16. > :07:19.the universities recover that money? It is worrying for now and the
:07:20. > :07:25.future. It would be an added cost which we would have to cover from
:07:26. > :07:29.tuition fees or some other source, private philanthropy, earnings from
:07:30. > :07:34.consulting or other enterprises. The man just appointed by the USS to run
:07:35. > :07:39.its scheme was two months ago the man who ran the pensions regulator.
:07:40. > :07:43.Is he comfortable with the size of this deficit. Let's be blunt you
:07:44. > :07:46.will have to ask the employers sponsoring the scheme to put their
:07:47. > :07:50.hands in their pockets? It is the normal course of deciding how to
:07:51. > :07:56.fund a pension scheme. It is here for the long-term. Was that a yes?
:07:57. > :08:00.We have to look at 80 years. Is that a yes? It is a normal process. It
:08:01. > :08:04.was done in 2008 and 2011, we are looking at it again now. The members
:08:05. > :08:08.of the scheme won't like to hear that. University staff are already
:08:09. > :08:13.planning to strike next week over pay. If they are going to discuss to
:08:14. > :08:16.pay more, one, we will want to know that the long-term future of the
:08:17. > :08:19.fund is clearly one that's at risk. Two, we will want to make sure that
:08:20. > :08:25.the employers themselves are making an equal and increased contribution
:08:26. > :08:30.as well. The USS has three-quarters of its money in relatively risky
:08:31. > :08:34.investment, shares, property and alternative investments like a stake
:08:35. > :08:38.in Heathrow, unlike other funds who buy more safe Government bonds. The
:08:39. > :08:41.hope is those investments will rise in value and close up that black
:08:42. > :08:46.hole. That has been a strategy for years now. So far, at least, it
:08:47. > :08:53.hasn't worked. Earlier I spoke to the chair of the
:08:54. > :08:57.employers pension forum, and a pensions expert from Warwick
:08:58. > :09:04.University's Institute for Employment Research, and a USS
:09:05. > :09:07.pensions scheme member. I started by asking how universities ended up
:09:08. > :09:11.running the biggest pension fund deficit in the country? It is not as
:09:12. > :09:14.simple as that. A pension fund deficit can't just be measured on
:09:15. > :09:17.one point in time. It is hugely volatile. One of the things that has
:09:18. > :09:20.happened over the last couple of years, of course, is that bond
:09:21. > :09:24.yields have fallen, because of quanative easing. And the fact it is
:09:25. > :09:28.not the assets of the pension fund that have changed dramatically over
:09:29. > :09:33.the past two years, but you have almost a day-to-day volatility in
:09:34. > :09:35.the liabilities. That is true, everybody's pension fund is the
:09:36. > :09:40.same. It is the worst in Britain and it is getting worse for years on
:09:41. > :09:43.years. Those figures of ?7. 9 billion, at one point in time, we
:09:44. > :09:49.have consulted people who say if you measured it the same way the private
:09:50. > :09:52.industry did it would be ?10. 5 billion. The point is you cannot
:09:53. > :09:57.measure it at a point in time, it can change from month to month and
:09:58. > :10:01.go down as well as up. It is huge? It is large. What we are doing as
:10:02. > :10:07.part of work as employers is to work with the USS, to work with the
:10:08. > :10:11.unions in partnership to produce sustainable pensions. Are you
:10:12. > :10:16.cheered up by that? No, I'm not. I find it rather ridiculous to blame
:10:17. > :10:23.QE. OK it is true that QE has an impact upon bond yields. But QE also
:10:24. > :10:27.has an impact upon bond prices, so any bonds that one has in one's
:10:28. > :10:34.portfolio in increase in value. What do you think the problem is then? I
:10:35. > :10:41.think the problem is a poor match of assets to LANLTS in general. If --
:10:42. > :10:47.LABLTHS in liabilities in general. It is a relatively mature scheme,
:10:48. > :10:51.half of the members are either retired people or deferred
:10:52. > :10:56.pensioners, people who are no longer attributing and probably never will
:10:57. > :11:00.again. If you have those kinds of liabilities you need to match them.
:11:01. > :11:05.Do you see the force of that? Not entirely. I don't agree with all of
:11:06. > :11:10.it. Of course you have to match liabilities and your assets. But in
:11:11. > :11:15.fact what is happening with USS is it is a scheme that has done well in
:11:16. > :11:18.terms of its asset base, it actually has grown. Do you understand anybody
:11:19. > :11:22.watching this will say if I'm a student or my son or daughter is a
:11:23. > :11:26.student we will end up paying for it, because the fees will inevitably
:11:27. > :11:30.go up, because there is a huge shortfall? That is not right at all.
:11:31. > :11:33.That is not the approach we are taking. Deficits of this type have
:11:34. > :11:40.to be addressed through a recovery plan, which can take, ten, 15, 20
:11:41. > :11:43.years. The covenant the USS employees have is extremely strong.
:11:44. > :11:46.We can afford to manage it over a long period of time. It is about
:11:47. > :11:49.constructing the right financial management plan, and more
:11:50. > :11:53.importantly, it is about producing sustainable pensions that are right
:11:54. > :11:56.not only for the employers but the employees. It is about working in
:11:57. > :12:01.partnership with the employees to come up with a good plan. Do you
:12:02. > :12:03.think it will inevitably fall on the students? Income comes to
:12:04. > :12:06.universities on the basis of the number of students they have got,
:12:07. > :12:10.the kind of courses that they are teaching them and on the amount of
:12:11. > :12:16.research that they do and the excellence of their research. If you
:12:17. > :12:20.have additional costs coming along, those additional costs, which are
:12:21. > :12:23.over and above any additional costs which are to do with the fact you
:12:24. > :12:29.want to improve the quality of the teaching and your facilities, all
:12:30. > :12:33.those costs have got to come from somewhere. It is a bit like the
:12:34. > :12:38.universities having to go along to the Government and say, I'm terribly
:12:39. > :12:42.sorry but we have lost rather a lot of money because we went down to the
:12:43. > :12:45.local casino and our money disappeared, can we have something
:12:46. > :12:49.to match that hole. And the Government is likely to say, no. You
:12:50. > :12:54.get your money under this formula for those purpose, we don't pay for
:12:55. > :13:01.you to go off and engage in speculative practices. We will leave
:13:02. > :13:13.it there, thank you both very much. Coming up:
:13:14. > :13:20.Then MarineLePen, leader of the far right gets personal. As EU leaders
:13:21. > :13:23.gathered in Brussels, the might of migrants risking their lives to
:13:24. > :13:28.cross the sea is high on their agenda, the Civil War in Syria is
:13:29. > :13:34.swelling numbers trying to reach EU outpost, such as Malta and Italian
:13:35. > :13:38.islands. Attending the summit the President of Italy's Sicilian region
:13:39. > :13:43.said the EU border management agency has failed completely to solve the
:13:44. > :13:50.problem and had transformed the Mediterranean into a large cemetery.
:13:51. > :13:56.Two weeks ago a boat crowded with refugees capsized after the boat was
:13:57. > :14:03.riddled with boats. We spoke to a couple from Damascus who were thrown
:14:04. > :14:08.into the sea. The voices are actors, and there are illustrations.
:14:09. > :14:19.This is their story. I'm Palestinian, we lived in Damascus,
:14:20. > :14:23.in the camp. Me, my wife, my sons, 20-year-old Mulham and ten-year-old
:14:24. > :14:31.Mohammed. I was born there, I lived all my life there. Then the war
:14:32. > :14:39.came. A big war. By plane they attacked us. My home was hit. I had
:14:40. > :14:49.a shop, that too was damaged. Now there are no people there. No
:14:50. > :14:56.people. My family set off for Lebanon. Then Egypt, and finally
:14:57. > :15:05.Libya. I was given a telephone number, they wanted $1300 to take
:15:06. > :15:14.every one of my family on the boat. So expensive. They told us to come
:15:15. > :15:18.to a house, inside were 125 people. And one bathroom. We stayed there
:15:19. > :15:26.for ten days. The conditions were very, very bad. But we are escaping
:15:27. > :15:31.war, so what other choice is there. They told us it was a good boat, it
:15:32. > :15:37.was not a good boat. It was old, very old. They wanted us to be
:15:38. > :15:44.scared of them and not complain. They swore at us and said bad
:15:45. > :15:52.things. They pushed us on. 300 adults and 100 children. After one
:15:53. > :15:56.hour a boat caught up with us, they said they were Libyan police. But
:15:57. > :16:05.maybe they were just militia, they told us to follow them. (Gunfire) at
:16:06. > :16:12.first, they fired into the sky. Then into the water. Then they aimed at
:16:13. > :16:19.the captain. The children cried, the women cried. I pushed my wife and
:16:20. > :16:24.sons under me, to shield them. We called, Allah hu Akbar, Allah hu
:16:25. > :16:34.Akbar. They fired at the hull of the boat and left. Water began leaking
:16:35. > :16:37.into the boat. The captain told us it would be OK, I knew it wasn't
:16:38. > :16:42.true. But I didn't want my wife to worry. I told her everything would
:16:43. > :16:52.be OK. You have a life jacket, you will be safe. The waves were so big,
:16:53. > :17:00.and the boat rocked from side to side. Then came a big wave. I saw
:17:01. > :17:08.people falling into the water. My family went into the water. I could
:17:09. > :17:14.not see them. Some cannot swim. One man came to me and tried to take my
:17:15. > :17:19.life jacket. He pushed me down in the water. He was killing me. My
:17:20. > :17:28.eldest son appeared, he pushed him away. He hit him. I can hear young
:17:29. > :17:33.Mohammed, "babbab I'm here". I kissed him I took his hand. Where is
:17:34. > :17:38.mamma. I told my son to go and bring her to us. He swim away through the
:17:39. > :17:47.dead bodies, many dead bodies, he was swimming and crying. Swimming
:17:48. > :17:59.and crying. I saw bodies floating, no movement. So many bodies. Then,
:18:00. > :18:04.there is my wife. All life! She told me she never expected to survive.
:18:05. > :18:16.She thought this would be the finish for her. Finally boats arrived to
:18:17. > :18:24.rescue us. I'm lucky to have my family, everyone else lost someone.
:18:25. > :18:32.Today my son said "I have nothing, I am empty, I have no money, no
:18:33. > :19:01.clothes, nothing, no one helps us, no-one". I'm trying not to cry. The
:19:02. > :19:10.story of one family trying to come to you It was said in French that
:19:11. > :19:14.they would like to see an opposition member swinging from a tree that in
:19:15. > :19:19.parliament. You might wonder why they are seeking an alliance with
:19:20. > :19:24.UKIP in the next elections? What happened to give the National Front
:19:25. > :19:29.so decisive a victory? And whatever it was, is it also now stirring
:19:30. > :19:36.across France? Polite society has always regarded the party as,
:19:37. > :19:43.TREEMist, racist even -- extremist, racist even, appealing only to the
:19:44. > :19:46.fanatic, but the majority of the town backed them. Are they racist?
:19:47. > :20:03.The mayor thinks not. A The winning candidate is a local
:20:04. > :20:12.hero here now, he believes Marine Le Pen, who has replaced her father
:20:13. > :20:24.Jean Marie Le Pen as leader has transformed their fortunes.
:20:25. > :20:28.The light is beginning to go now, the town is tipping into evening. We
:20:29. > :20:31.have spent most of the day here, we have spoken to quite a few people
:20:32. > :20:35.who have told us they voted for the National Front and explained why,
:20:36. > :20:39.privately, not one of them could be persuaded to go on camera. Which
:20:40. > :20:45.suggests there is still a public stigma attached to it. Their reasons
:20:46. > :20:48.for voting that way can be easily distilled into a powerful
:20:49. > :20:52.combination of disaffection, immigration, people living on
:20:53. > :20:55.benefit, the fear of crime, a national political elite in both
:20:56. > :20:59.main parties that seems unresponsive to the public mood. And about power
:21:00. > :21:04.in the European Union, which seems now simply unaccountable. This is
:21:05. > :21:11.about people in a democracy who feel they have been disempowered. And so
:21:12. > :21:16.Marine Le Pen believes her time has come. She now claims to lead a
:21:17. > :21:20.party, not of the extreme right, but of patriotism, that transcends
:21:21. > :21:25.left-right politics. She says she has partners growing in strength, in
:21:26. > :21:28.the netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Finland, Sweden, as the time of
:21:29. > :21:56.anti-EU sentiment rises everywhere. Do you expect to be the biggest
:21:57. > :22:34.party in France at next year's What about the UK Independence
:22:35. > :23:13.Party, UKIP, do you see them as potential allies?
:23:14. > :23:18.Do you have natural allies in this movement, inside the British
:23:19. > :23:46.Conservative Party as well. Are you talking to them too?
:23:47. > :23:54.While her father once railed against communism, she now attacks global
:23:55. > :23:57.capitalism. And the European Union. Outflanking the left, she hopes, on
:23:58. > :24:02.social justice, and the right on the question of national sovereignty.
:24:03. > :24:05.She believes the EU and what she sees as its vast unelected
:24:06. > :24:10.bureaucracy is doomed to collapse. This is how she described Britain's
:24:11. > :24:42.Katherine Ashton. The head of the EU's foreign affairs service.
:24:43. > :24:56.You think Baroness Ashton's presence in her job helps your cause because
:24:57. > :25:07.it makes everybody more euro-sceptic?
:25:08. > :25:14.Let me ask you about immigration. That's a very powerful issue for
:25:15. > :25:20.you, but to many people who oppose you, it sounds like old fashioned
:25:21. > :25:56.European anti-Muslim zenophobia. But the Europe you want is a Europe
:25:57. > :26:01.of national fortresses, borders, barriers. Limiting trade, limiting
:26:02. > :26:31.economic activity. You want to retreat to national silos?
:26:32. > :27:07.If they succeed in building this pan-European alliance, it could have
:27:08. > :27:10.an immediate impact on the whole edifice of European Government. For
:27:11. > :27:14.one thing this institution, the parliament, always strongly
:27:15. > :27:19.pro-federalist in the past will have, for the first time in its
:27:20. > :27:23.history, at its heart, a strong and coherent group dedicated to
:27:24. > :27:26.dismantling much of the post-war European project. Second and more
:27:27. > :27:30.decisive will be the impact that group has on Governments back home.
:27:31. > :27:34.Mainstream pro-European parties will be under greater populist pressure
:27:35. > :27:40.than ever before to demonstrate that they can stand up for national
:27:41. > :27:44.interest against those of the European Union.
:27:45. > :27:49.There was a very peculiar car launch in Britain today, it is the Tesla S,
:27:50. > :27:54.electric car, which claims to be able to reach 60 miles an hour in
:27:55. > :27:58.just over four seconds. Finally putting an end to the idea that
:27:59. > :28:06.electric cars are basically milk floats without the power but of a
:28:07. > :28:11.lawn power engine. The creator made his fortune in PayPal and other
:28:12. > :28:16.ventures and is spending it on the Tesla project and sending rockets
:28:17. > :28:22.into space. What we tried to achieve with the model S was to create a
:28:23. > :28:28.compelling electric car, something really different from people's prior
:28:29. > :28:33.experience. The last time they drove an electric car was a golf cart or
:28:34. > :28:38.milk float. They are used to, their idea of an electric car is something
:28:39. > :28:42.that doesn't look good, isn't fast, doesn't have high performance and
:28:43. > :28:45.has low range. We wanted to break the MOULD of all of that. Produce
:28:46. > :28:50.something brilliant with high acceleration, incredible handling.
:28:51. > :28:54.Tonnes of capability, lots of room. And really was better than any
:28:55. > :29:03.gasoline car. That is what we sought to achieve. This is the front trunk.
:29:04. > :29:06.With nothing? With nothing in it. If somebody buys this car in the UK
:29:07. > :29:13.now, how many places are there where you can plug it in? Anywhere there's
:29:14. > :29:19.an electrical outle Anywhere, there is nothing special about the
:29:20. > :29:22.electric applicators? The charger can be plugged in wherever you go,
:29:23. > :29:28.if you are travelling somewhere, in a cottage, at a hotel. In addition
:29:29. > :29:32.to that however we are going to be KRATH supercharge locations
:29:33. > :29:37.throughout the UK. You will be able to charge anywhere at a Tesla
:29:38. > :29:40.supercharger location and one of the things that we do, with these
:29:41. > :29:45.supercharge locations is they are free. If you buy a Tesla you will be
:29:46. > :29:51.able to travel for free anywhere in children. And it is free forever.
:29:52. > :29:54.One more thing to that, we are installing solar panel at the
:29:55. > :29:58.supercharger locations intended to generate more electricity in the
:29:59. > :30:03.course of the year than the cars consume that charge there. So the
:30:04. > :30:08.net result is you will not only be able to travel for free forever but
:30:09. > :30:12.on pure sunlight. On this question of our energy bills, that is a huge
:30:13. > :30:17.political topic here and now. Have we got it wrong in terms of where
:30:18. > :30:21.we're sourcing our energy? Mark my words, solar will be the single
:30:22. > :30:24.largest producer in the UK long-term. You may say isn't it
:30:25. > :30:28.rather cloudy around here. I was going to say, have you ever been
:30:29. > :30:32.outside? Yes, even though it is cloudy, you still get 80-90% of the
:30:33. > :30:38.energy coming through the clouds. You don't have that bright point
:30:39. > :30:44.source of a sun. Way to appreciate this perhaps is to look at the fact
:30:45. > :30:49.that plants are essentially a solar-powered chemical
:30:50. > :30:54.resatisfaction and the UK is a very green country. You live in
:30:55. > :30:57.California and travel to San Francisco, you are interested in
:30:58. > :31:03.whether it is possible to travel by a hyperloop, you go at 8 HUP MIELGS
:31:04. > :31:09.an house on the ground, like a train from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
:31:10. > :31:13.Do we suffer from a low-level of ambition, should we think bigger
:31:14. > :31:21.than HS 2 and think about something like this? I think so. For reasons
:31:22. > :31:25.beyond the objective of getting there faster. You want to do
:31:26. > :31:29.projects that are inspiring and make people excited about the future.
:31:30. > :31:33.Life's got to be about more than just solving problems. When I get up
:31:34. > :31:37.in the morning and say yes, I'm looking forward to that thing
:31:38. > :31:41.happening. I guess that was my central disappointment with the
:31:42. > :31:44.California called high-speed rail. I was looking at that and think they
:31:45. > :31:49.did better things in Japan 30 years ago. They have got something way
:31:50. > :31:53.better in China, why are we doing this? And spending so much money on
:31:54. > :31:57.it? It is going to take 20 years and by that time we will be 50 years
:31:58. > :32:01.behind what they have in Japan, I mean? This just doesn't make sense.
:32:02. > :32:04.That was my reaction. That was your reaction to what is happening in
:32:05. > :32:08.California, we are behind California? Oh my good, really!
:32:09. > :32:19.Difficult though it may be to imagine? Wow! That is brutal! Most
:32:20. > :32:24.unfortunate. The other big part of his life is with his company SpaceX,
:32:25. > :32:32.which is committed to improving rocket technology and even getting
:32:33. > :32:36.the human race to other planets. Do you see really the future must be in
:32:37. > :32:43.space for the human race, you really see this, this is not science
:32:44. > :32:52.fiction this is going to be a fact? History fundamental bifucats, either
:32:53. > :32:58.this, we are either a multiplanet species, or a single species waiting
:32:59. > :33:03.for extinction. It is that I find more motivating, which is you are
:33:04. > :33:07.going and setting up a base on Mars would be the greatest adventure
:33:08. > :33:12.ever. Not everyone is a fan, back on earth Tesla sued the programme top
:33:13. > :33:21.gear, after it -- top Gear after it rubbished the Tesla roadster, it
:33:22. > :33:24.lost, what does he think about Jeremy Clarkson? Clarkson's show is
:33:25. > :33:33.much more about entertainment than truth. Most people realised that but
:33:34. > :33:37.not everyone. I have actually enjoyed a lot of his show. It is not
:33:38. > :33:45.as though I hate Top Gear or anything, he can be very funny and
:33:46. > :33:51.irref rent, but he -- irref rent, he has a problem with electric cars and
:33:52. > :33:55.Americans. His two pet peeves are American cars and electric cars, we
:33:56. > :33:59.are an American electric car, we are in the worst possible situation for
:34:00. > :34:06.someone like Clarkson. Do you see this as missionary activity, you are
:34:07. > :34:09.over here trying to convert Jeremy Clarkson? I don't think there will
:34:10. > :34:20.be any converting of Jeremy Clarkson. That seems quite unlikely.
:34:21. > :34:27.Can you swim? You al bought the James Bond Lotus? I did from Spy Who
:34:28. > :34:33.Loved Me. I can see the fun in that? That is the reason. There is no
:34:34. > :34:40.grand project. We're not going to mass produce you know cars that turn
:34:41. > :34:44.into submarines. What I'm going to try to do, it is a low priority
:34:45. > :34:48.project, I have my day jobs. We want to see if we can make it do what it
:34:49. > :34:51.appears to do in the movie for real. I don't know if it will be
:34:52. > :34:57.successful, but we will try. Thank you very much. Now there have been
:34:58. > :35:00.two big developments on attempts to regulate newspapers and magazines
:35:01. > :35:03.tonight. Some of the publishers are now applying to the High Court for a
:35:04. > :35:07.judicial review of the decision by politicians to reject the
:35:08. > :35:13.newspapers' ideas on a regulator, they call it IP sow, we have also
:35:14. > :35:18.learned a lot more about how this new newspaper-driven regulator could
:35:19. > :35:39.operate. I'm joined by my guests in a moment. This new newspaper-driven
:35:40. > :35:41.regulator could operate. I'm joined by my guests in a moment. So will
:35:42. > :35:45.this happen?. Leveson said there would be a regular traitor that
:35:46. > :35:49.could fine, and have an arbitary service, and fundamentally it would
:35:50. > :35:54.be independent of press interests, and critically politicians. However,
:35:55. > :35:58.in order to stop history PREETing itself. This had all been said
:35:59. > :36:03.before. He said we have had decades of this and there is a common
:36:04. > :36:07.pattern. There is a scandal and outrage, a commission and agreement
:36:08. > :36:13.and nothing happens. There is a crisis, commission and history
:36:14. > :36:17.repeating itself. In order to stop this happening, in order to make
:36:18. > :36:21.sure in five years time a regulator is up for the job. We will set up
:36:22. > :36:25.another body to play a policing role, give it an occasional once
:36:26. > :36:30.over to the self-regulator. This is all about how this recognition body,
:36:31. > :36:34.called, is to be established. Now, David Cameron said he didn't want it
:36:35. > :36:37.to be done by statute, nobody wanted statute, because statute means MPs,
:36:38. > :36:41.parliament, and political interference. They came up with a
:36:42. > :36:46.wheeze, which was a royal charter, it has official standing but not
:36:47. > :36:49.technically a statute. The problem with royal charters is nobody really
:36:50. > :36:54.knows very much about how they work, it is a medieval process and it is
:36:55. > :36:58.very, very unclear. Around every corner it is producing unintended
:36:59. > :37:01.consequences. So, the Government produced a cross-party charter to
:37:02. > :37:05.establish the recognition body, the press didn't like it for a variety
:37:06. > :37:10.of reasons, mainly that it could only be changed by politicians, by
:37:11. > :37:14.two thirds majorities in both Houses of Parliament. So the press put in
:37:15. > :37:18.their own royal charter, the rules of the Privy Council means you can't
:37:19. > :37:22.have two, one had to be rejected. At Privy Council committee eight
:37:23. > :37:24.current serving ministers rejected the press's version. What has
:37:25. > :37:28.happened today is the press have said they are now going to try to
:37:29. > :37:31.challenge that decision to reject their charter by the eight members
:37:32. > :37:36.of the Privy Council with a judicial review. Two things, first it is not
:37:37. > :37:42.even clear that it is legally possible to challenge, to judicially
:37:43. > :37:46.review the Privy Council. What the press is doing here and they are
:37:47. > :37:50.open about it is try to put a spanner in the works and slow down
:37:51. > :37:54.the process. Judicial review slows down the process, meanwhile their
:37:55. > :37:57.own self-regulator gets started, they hope with time their own
:37:58. > :38:03.self-regulator will see the pressure to do more reduced. There is a
:38:04. > :38:08.number of points there? I quite enjoyed that, it is quite good. The
:38:09. > :38:12.main point is, David Cameron doesn't accept what you are doing, the three
:38:13. > :38:15.parties don't accept what you are doing, the victims don't accept what
:38:16. > :38:18.you are doing. The public according to the opinion polls don't accept
:38:19. > :38:21.what you are doing. Whatever the good faith it is not acceptable? I
:38:22. > :38:26.don't think that is entirely the case. If you see the various opinion
:38:27. > :38:29.polls the public say on the one hand they want to make sure there is an
:38:30. > :38:32.independent self-regulator with proper independence built into it.
:38:33. > :38:36.The other hand they say they don't want the sticky fingers of
:38:37. > :38:40.politicians in it either. In many ways it is an exercise in
:38:41. > :38:44.pragmatisim, there is a moral imperative. Leveson has said create
:38:45. > :38:49.a self-regulator. Leveson said there should be a back stop and something
:38:50. > :38:53.to stop the circle Steve was talking about, good faith is all great for a
:38:54. > :38:56.few years then the bad old days? Even the newspapers in the version
:38:57. > :39:00.announced today the recognition part of that has a great deal of
:39:01. > :39:03.independent built into it. The Government started talking about
:39:04. > :39:06.voluntary self-regulation, the newspaper industry is saying we will
:39:07. > :39:09.try to create something that is voluntary, that is tougher than what
:39:10. > :39:14.went before, better than what went before and actual legal we will
:39:15. > :39:17.hopefully be able to command it. This is most of what you want. It
:39:18. > :39:22.will be up and running, is it really worth continuing the fight when you
:39:23. > :39:28.have got virtually everything? There are several, the main points are
:39:29. > :39:32.what Leveson wanted to put in place, was to have a structure that
:39:33. > :39:37.couldn't be changed. Otherwise the press go back to their old trick,
:39:38. > :39:41.exactly what they did in 1990. What is happening now with the press, you
:39:42. > :39:51.have three very rich people living outside the UK, don't pay tax, who
:39:52. > :39:53.run the Telegraph, the Mail and the Sun/Times group. Those people are
:39:54. > :39:56.putting two fingers up to parliament and the public in this country. And
:39:57. > :40:00.they have got no respect for democracy, they have no respect for
:40:01. > :40:03.the rule of law. They are trying now to push the whole thing into the
:40:04. > :40:09.long grass. They might have all the papers with them in the end. The
:40:10. > :40:12.Guardian the Independent and the FT have been some what sniffy about it,
:40:13. > :40:17.but there are signs they might join it. None of the papers wants what
:40:18. > :40:19.you want? I don't think that is entirely right. The fundamental
:40:20. > :40:23.thing for me is access to justice. At the moment unless you are a
:40:24. > :40:28.millionaire you can't sue for breach of briefcy or defamation. That must
:40:29. > :40:32.be wrong. You need an arbitary body. That is missing from the press
:40:33. > :40:35.prososals but very much in Leveson I think you will find that despite
:40:36. > :40:40.what the press are doing, there will be a regulator, it will appear and
:40:41. > :40:46.the respectable press, the ones who have regard to law and rule and so
:40:47. > :40:50.on, they will join it. It will happen the way he wants it is, in
:40:51. > :40:56.the end and the respectable press will join? I'm counted by that, I
:40:57. > :41:00.will be excluded from that. We could be positive for fraction of a
:41:01. > :41:03.second, there will be a new regulator with considerable powers
:41:04. > :41:07.that the previous institution the PCC didn't have. That is going to
:41:08. > :41:10.happen. But your judicial review is just a way of delaying things that
:41:11. > :41:14.the Government wants so you can get this up and running? The judicial
:41:15. > :41:19.review is a theological point. A view that the industry holds dearly,
:41:20. > :41:22.but for 300 years we have not had the politicians with the direct
:41:23. > :41:25.means of interfering. We haven't got direct means, there is no direct
:41:26. > :41:29.means for a politician to interfere under Leveson. You have first of all
:41:30. > :41:33.a supervisory body and that supervisor is a regulator also
:41:34. > :41:38.independent. Two independent bodies between you and the politicians.
:41:39. > :41:42.Ultimately two thirds majority of parliament, what is the one issue
:41:43. > :41:45.you can unite parliamentarians on and disdain and disagreement with
:41:46. > :41:53.the press, they can influence the body. You were on the PCC when Siena
:41:54. > :41:56.Miller was harassed and the McCanns, whatever the good faith the
:41:57. > :42:00.regulators of the past have all failed? If I were here arguing for
:42:01. > :42:05.the status quo that would be a powerful argument. In a pragmatic
:42:06. > :42:09.attempt to get this morning and get something created that people can
:42:10. > :42:16.rely on the industry is putting up something that could possibly work.
:42:17. > :42:23.One of the most important sculptures -- sculptors of the last century has
:42:24. > :42:27.died, Anthony Caro, studied engineering at Cambridge and then
:42:28. > :42:39.studied as part-time assistant to Moore. He used steals, lead, wood
:42:40. > :42:44.and paper. He was an inspiration for many. Anthony Gormley joins me, he
:42:45. > :42:49.was an inspiration to you? It is extraordinary, in the late 50s there
:42:50. > :42:53.was Anthony Caro trying to think how to engage with the body not as
:42:54. > :42:59.appearance, not as a narrative figure in some kind of tableau, but
:43:00. > :43:08.actually how it feels to be inside a body. And he made a series of works,
:43:09. > :43:11.Man Taking His Shirt Off, Woman Waking Up. They were completely
:43:12. > :43:17.revolutionly, and three years later he goes to America and he has this
:43:18. > :43:24.Paul line conversion, comes back with colour and GIRDers as his
:43:25. > :43:29.PROOIF primary material and -- as his primary material and liberates
:43:30. > :43:34.himself from the body, he never forgets the body, and he never
:43:35. > :43:39.forgets the way cullpure acts on the body of the viewer. Taking things
:43:40. > :43:43.off the plinth and bringing them down literally and metaphorically to
:43:44. > :43:47.our level. Does that changes obviously the way you look at t you
:43:48. > :43:53.are not looking at something the way you worship it? It is no longer a
:43:54. > :43:58.heroic or exemplary thing. Some how it comes to be a piece of mental
:43:59. > :44:04.furniture in our world. I think he liberated, he liberated cullpure
:44:05. > :44:09.into a kind of -- sculpture into a kind of freedom of making for its
:44:10. > :44:15.own sake that changed it absolutely and forever. And we all owe him an
:44:16. > :44:22.enormous debt. He owed a debt to Moore, he was critical of the late
:44:23. > :44:27.Henry Moore. He then founded his own school at St Martins and spawned a
:44:28. > :44:35.whole other generation that in a sense rejected him and started the
:44:36. > :44:40.Richard Long, bare Flanagan and other concept actual schools. The
:44:41. > :44:44.other things that are quite inspirational about him, he was 89,
:44:45. > :44:49.the last exhibition opening in the summer in Venice, he wanted to work
:44:50. > :44:54.until he was 100, he was constantly creating, he couldn't stop? He was a
:44:55. > :45:01.great and permanent sort of example and inspiration that you live to
:45:02. > :45:06.work, the work is itself intensely engaging and enjoyable. You can see
:45:07. > :45:11.it in all of these works behind us. That sense of in a way making
:45:12. > :45:20.something that didn't exist before for the sake of seeing how it felt
:45:21. > :45:25.when it was made, and that idea of change, of impermanence and yet
:45:26. > :45:33.making something like this fixed, that invites you to look around,
:45:34. > :45:40.walk around, and some how intergreat that into your mental and feeling
:45:41. > :45:46.kind of yeah extended body experience. He did another show in
:45:47. > :45:50.London, Gagosian, which wasn't his gallery, called the Park Lane
:45:51. > :45:55.Series, he was invited to do this amazing idea of a sequence of
:45:56. > :46:00.sculptures down Park Lane in New York. That didn't happen but he made
:46:01. > :46:02.them any way and he showed them in a sequence of rooms. That was
:46:03. > :46:07.absolutely fantastic. That was earlier this year, it was a tour de
:46:08. > :46:15.force. These extraordinary work that is for the first time he used
:46:16. > :46:20.circular round bar and hung on to these onsistently horizontal bars
:46:21. > :46:27.bits of old plough share. The tank of a compressor, bits of steel that
:46:28. > :46:32.had come off a rolling mill and then sort of dropped on to the floor. And
:46:33. > :46:38.some how he used these heavy objects as if they were music. We will leave
:46:39. > :46:42.it there thank you very much. We wanted to remember Karadzic through
:46:43. > :46:47.some of his work and some of his own words. I'm back tomorrow, good
:46:48. > :46:53.night. I wanted them to be special enough to be sculptures, but not to
:46:54. > :46:57.be stuck up there away from us, they had to have a real character, and if
:46:58. > :47:03.they didn't have that they would just be decoration, bits of railway
:47:04. > :47:08.equipment or something. But no, they had to carry their emotional
:47:09. > :47:16.meaning. Sculpture is food for the eyes and food for the soul. And
:47:17. > :47:22.these are just things that human beings do, they chance, they make
:47:23. > :47:26.music, they carve little pebbles or they take little bits of clay and
:47:27. > :47:29.stick them together. That is just a natural MUM thing. Animals don't do