:00:00. > :00:10.Tonight Newsnight reveals Saudi Arabia's deal with Pakistan to
:00:11. > :00:15.secure their own nuclear weapons. For years the sawed keys have warned
:00:16. > :00:21.America that if Iran went nuclear they would too. We will examine
:00:22. > :00:27.their plans. Glasgow beats Portsmouth for a contract for three
:00:28. > :00:30.Royal Navy ships, ending Portsmouth's shipbuilding days. The
:00:31. > :00:35.yard is closed, that is all we have been told. The end for shipbuilding
:00:36. > :00:40.in Portsmouth, the end for me. If Scotland votes for independence will
:00:41. > :00:46.the decision be reversed? Is this the world's least favourite airline
:00:47. > :00:50.despite carrying 81 million passengers. The shareholders are not
:00:51. > :01:12.happy, Michael passengers. The shareholders are not
:01:13. > :01:16.population, he has toilet rolls to help.
:01:17. > :01:21.Good evening. Tonight we reveal a secret Saudi Arabian plan to secure
:01:22. > :01:25.nuclear weapons. On the eve of two-day talks between Iran and six
:01:26. > :01:30.world powers in Geneva, designed to contain Iran's nuclear programme,
:01:31. > :01:35.Newsnight has learned that such is Saudi concern about Iran's nuclear
:01:36. > :01:48.position, they are taking steps to secure their own nuclear capability.
:01:49. > :01:52.Several sources have told Newsnight that Saudi Arabia has invested in
:01:53. > :01:59.Pakistani nuclear projects and believes it could obtain atomic
:02:00. > :02:16.bombs at will. While it is seen as countering
:02:17. > :02:19.bombs at will. While it is seen as that nuclear weapons made in
:02:20. > :02:25.Pakistan for Saudi Arabia were sitting, waiting for delivery. A
:02:26. > :02:29.former Pakistani intelligence official added, certainly the
:02:30. > :02:34.Pakistanis maintain a certain number of warheads on the basis that if the
:02:35. > :02:39.Saudis asked for them, they would immediately be delivered.
:02:40. > :02:44.A few years ago Saudi Arabia started signals to its closest ally its
:02:45. > :02:47.intention of having a nuclear option.
:02:48. > :02:52.When I was working in the White House the Saudis were extremely
:02:53. > :02:56.alarmed by the possibility that Iran would acquire nuclear weapons and
:02:57. > :03:01.they told every American visitor they could get their hands on that
:03:02. > :03:04.if Iran got nuclear weapons the Saudis would have to have nuclear
:03:05. > :03:08.weapons. They couldn't possibly live in the shadow of Iran having nuclear
:03:09. > :03:29.weapons. The most in the shadow of Iran having nuclear
:03:30. > :03:35.the US to rein in Iran? The Saudis speak about Iran and nuclear matters
:03:36. > :03:42.very seriously. They don't bluff on this issue. Perhaps they wished they
:03:43. > :03:47.could, but they know that unless they speak firmly and even shout
:03:48. > :03:51.they are not going to be heard in Washington DC.
:03:52. > :03:55.There have long been rumours of the deal between Saudi and Pakistan in
:03:56. > :04:02.which funding for Pakistan's bomb was linked to Saudi access to atomic
:04:03. > :04:06.weapons in an emergency. Indeed photographs have surfaced of visits
:04:07. > :04:14.more than a decade ago by the Saudi Defence Minister to Pakistan's
:04:15. > :04:18.nuclear research establishment. NawazSharif, the then and now Prime
:04:19. > :04:36.Minister sits in the centre and the nuclear scientist to
:04:37. > :04:40.Minister sits in the centre and the Arabia has become so exasperated
:04:41. > :04:46.with the United States that they probably judge that the time for
:04:47. > :04:50.ambiguity has passed. The Saudis have also shown elsewhere they can
:04:51. > :04:54.act counter to US interests and pay for the consequences. They could
:04:55. > :05:00.simply compensate Pakistan for the wider cost of delivering nuclear
:05:01. > :05:06.weapons. The Saudis have always said they could never imagine there could
:05:07. > :05:11.be only a Shi'ite bomb, as they the leaders and the guardians of the two
:05:12. > :05:16.holy sites and the champion of the Sunni Arab world. So that's kind of
:05:17. > :05:22.very much in their DNA. Secondly, there is lots of circumstantial
:05:23. > :05:26.evidence. There is evidence of recent contingency planning, for
:05:27. > :05:28.example Saudi Arabia has created additional launch pads for its
:05:29. > :05:49.example Saudi Arabia has created Israeli military intelligence argued
:05:50. > :05:53.this September that Iran just had to go nuclear for Saudi to activate its
:05:54. > :05:58.nuclear cash and carry. Because the Saudis will not wait one month, they
:05:59. > :06:04.have already paid for the bomb. They will go to Pakistan and bring what
:06:05. > :06:10.they need to bring. And then every regional superpower like Egypt,
:06:11. > :06:14.Turkey, Iraq will be nuclear. Of course the Israelis have an obvious
:06:15. > :06:19.agenda in wanting to use the possibility of a Saudi bomb to
:06:20. > :06:23.galvanise the Americans to do more about Iran's nuclear programme. But
:06:24. > :06:26.the Americans also have an agenda and it works in the opposite
:06:27. > :06:34.direction. They would rather not think too much about the possible
:06:35. > :06:37.consequences of the Saudi nuclear option. The intelligence that Saudi
:06:38. > :06:56.nuclear weapons could option. The intelligence that Saudi
:06:57. > :07:03.control, insulating Pakistan from the huge problems that might follow
:07:04. > :07:08.giving nukes to Saudi Arabian outright. From Pakistan's point of
:07:09. > :07:15.view, just giving Saudi Arabia a handful of nuclear weapons would be
:07:16. > :07:18.a very difficult action, it could jeopardise Pakistan's access to the
:07:19. > :07:24.international funds the economy needs. I have always thoughed it was
:07:25. > :07:28.much more likely, the most likely if Pakistan were to honour any
:07:29. > :07:33.agreement, would be for Pakistan to send its own forces and troops,
:07:34. > :07:39.armed with nuclear weapons and with the delivery systems to be deployed
:07:40. > :07:43.in Saudi Arabia. Many think that Iran is lurking just below the
:07:44. > :07:46.nuclear threshold, but the Saudi situation is as if NATH to me, they
:07:47. > :08:07.-- fascinating to me, they may be situation is as if NATH to me, they
:08:08. > :08:13.the US and focussed on strategic confrontation with Iran. For the
:08:14. > :08:18.time being it suits everyone for any Saudi bombs to remain sitting in
:08:19. > :08:23.Pakistan. But the allure of becoming a nuclear power may prove
:08:24. > :08:29.irresistable. Well we gave details of our story to
:08:30. > :08:32.both the Pakistani and Saudi Arabia Governments earlier today. The
:08:33. > :08:40.Pakistan Foreign Ministry has described our story as "speculative,
:08:41. > :08:46.mischievous and baseless", they add, "Pakistan is a responsible nuclear
:08:47. > :08:49.weapon state with comprehensive export controls", the royal Saudi
:08:50. > :08:53.embassy in London has issued a statement pointing out that the
:08:54. > :08:56.kingdom is a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and has
:08:57. > :09:15.worked for a nuclear-free Middle East. It says the UN
:09:16. > :09:19.worked for a nuclear-free Middle timebomb that can't be easily
:09:20. > :09:23.diffused by manoeuvring around it. The significance of both of these
:09:24. > :09:28.statements? The Pakistani one is a denial. We might as well take that
:09:29. > :09:32.on the chin. It is fascinating all the same. It highlights the fact
:09:33. > :09:35.that if there is this understanding, and we believe from the many people
:09:36. > :09:39.believe spoken to, including Pakistanis that such an
:09:40. > :09:44.understanding exists, it does depend on the good will of both parties. We
:09:45. > :09:49.do have information from people, as I say, including on the Pakistani
:09:50. > :09:53.side that would run counter to the Pakistani Government statement
:09:54. > :09:58.tonight. The Saudi one very interesting indeed, generally
:09:59. > :10:01.speaking the Saudi Arabia Government doesn't comment on press stories,
:10:02. > :10:06.and yet we have this statement tonight that is not in any sense a
:10:07. > :10:25.denial of our story. In fact it even seems to up the ante
:10:26. > :10:29.denial of our story. In fact it even is the former ambassador to Saudi
:10:30. > :10:34.Arabia, and a former members of the US defence policy board is in our
:10:35. > :10:39.Pittsburgh studio. First of all, the significance of this moment do you
:10:40. > :10:47.think? I think it is significant in that this has come out publicly, and
:10:48. > :10:51.publicly due to journalism, but interestingly one asks why at this
:10:52. > :11:03.time. It may be that the Saudis are not too unhappy at the idea that a
:11:04. > :11:10.speculation about their ability to acquire nuclear weapons via Pakistan
:11:11. > :11:15.may suit them when they are anxious about the US commitment to stop
:11:16. > :11:35.Iran's nuclear ambitions. about the US commitment to stop
:11:36. > :11:38.Absolutely. We can't blame the United States fully for what's
:11:39. > :11:45.happening in Riyadh, but we have to be able to say that the retreat that
:11:46. > :11:49.the US has demonstrated is in 2013 alone by the Obama administration,
:11:50. > :11:53.from the greater Middle East has been troubling to the Saudis, to the
:11:54. > :12:02.Israelis, to all of our major allies in the region. We stood by and
:12:03. > :12:10.watched MUB Barak fall and our inability -- Mubarack fall and our
:12:11. > :12:19.inability to step in on the Morsi ray genome and that fell. And our
:12:20. > :12:24.inability to EP gauge with Syria when asked at least two years ago.
:12:25. > :12:26.With the Iranian talks being restarted, there is a sense by the
:12:27. > :12:45.Saudis that the US is restarted, there is a sense by the
:12:46. > :12:51.UN Security Council. If they are some what pleased in looking the
:12:52. > :12:56.other way as the story floats about a possible nuclear capability in
:12:57. > :13:02.their own country, I think it is just another example of how
:13:03. > :13:05.confused, exasperated they are at the United States for not being the
:13:06. > :13:09.US it once was in the Middle East. Do you think that the Saudis feel
:13:10. > :13:13.that you know they are not as valuable to the US any more? I think
:13:14. > :13:17.some of their certainties have disappeared. I think they have been
:13:18. > :13:22.reliant on a US security guarantee for quite some time. And I think as
:13:23. > :13:29.they would see it the failure of the US to act on the red line that was
:13:30. > :13:32.crossed in Syria. Their concern that they may be doing a deal with Iran
:13:33. > :13:36.and Iran may be pulling the wool over their eyes. I don't think that
:13:37. > :13:55.is the case but you can see it from a Saudi point of view. The
:13:56. > :13:59.is the case but you can see it from can't trust Iranian s and they would
:14:00. > :14:05.be sceptical. There is an opportunity to bring the Saudise on
:14:06. > :14:12.board and Mike sure think -- Saudis on board by making sure... How? By
:14:13. > :14:17.talking, engaging and being open with them. Allaying fears, I think
:14:18. > :14:21.their fears of an absence of a western guarantee are exaggerated.
:14:22. > :14:24.But it is understandable given the sequence of events given recently
:14:25. > :14:31.that they should be in that position. We might find ourselves in
:14:32. > :14:37.a position where there is nuclear capability in Iran, in Pakistan, in
:14:38. > :14:42.Saudi Arabia and in Israel. What a position that would be in terms of
:14:43. > :14:45.proliferation? Well, you know, it is game-changer for the whole region.
:14:46. > :14:47.Because in addition to those countries that you have just
:14:48. > :15:05.mentioned, others would countries that you have just
:15:06. > :15:10.perhaps feeling a bit overconcerned about US intentions and its walking
:15:11. > :15:16.away from some security guarantees. It is interesting to me that this
:15:17. > :15:20.report has just surfaced now about a nuclear, possible nuclear capability
:15:21. > :15:29.happening even faster in Saudi Arabia than some anticipated. Given
:15:30. > :15:32.the fact that only last week it was noted by an interview done within
:15:33. > :15:38.the New York Times, with our national security adviser, where she
:15:39. > :15:43.stated that under a new Middle East doctrine the US has really narrowed
:15:44. > :15:48.and focussed its priorities in the Middle East. Those priorities are an
:15:49. > :15:53.Arab-Israeli peace deal if possible. Making sure that Syria does not have
:15:54. > :15:56.chemical weapons and trying to quell that crisis and then finally the
:15:57. > :16:21.Iranian nuclear talks. # Fly away
:16:22. > :16:25.The row over the decision by BAe systems to manage three Navy ships
:16:26. > :16:31.on the Clyde and not Portsmouth, thus end ing shipbuilding there. Has
:16:32. > :16:35.for the first time brought the Scottish referendum into sharp focus
:16:36. > :16:40.in the UK. Was it a political decision, or taken on the basis of
:16:41. > :16:43.the industrial logic as Philip Hammond claimed. No sooner had the
:16:44. > :16:47.decision been announced, the ministers, including the Scottish
:16:48. > :16:50.Secretary, made it clear that the contract will not be signed until
:16:51. > :16:55.after the referendum. So in the event of a yes vote, might
:16:56. > :17:00.shipbuilding in Portsmouth be resurrected. We spent the day there.
:17:01. > :17:06.Henry VII built the world's first dry dock for the Mary Rose, the
:17:07. > :17:26.DRAET NAUT issued a new era in naval warfare. HMS London
:17:27. > :17:31.from today a very uncertain future. Today's decision sees hundreds of
:17:32. > :17:37.jobs lost in Portsmouth, many highly-skilled and well-paid. It is
:17:38. > :17:42.a blow as the decision to build two aircraft carriers Up to Scotland.
:17:43. > :17:49.Shipbuilding may finish here after more than 500 years. At a staff
:17:50. > :17:52.meeting today BAe systems told 900 ship builders they would soon be out
:17:53. > :17:55.of work. Portsmouth will be turned into a centre for high-tech
:17:56. > :17:59.maintenance and repair, not construction. The decision will
:18:00. > :18:04.change many lives here six weeks before Christmas.
:18:05. > :18:08.I came down from the north in 2005 because I had been unemployed
:18:09. > :18:16.because they closed all the shipyards in the north-east, I have
:18:17. > :18:35.spent nine years down here. This is the second time I have been made
:18:36. > :18:41.Royal Navy and that should start to come to an end in 2016. That leaves
:18:42. > :18:45.the company with far too much spare capacity at the shipyards. The plan
:18:46. > :18:52.is now to move all remaining work up to Scotland. Hundreds of jobs will
:18:53. > :18:56.have to go there too, but shipbuilding will continue on the
:18:57. > :18:59.Clyde. That decision has many in Portsmouth crying foul ahead of a
:19:00. > :19:03.Scottish independence vote. What people are telling me locally this
:19:04. > :19:06.morning and through and I have been around my area talking to people,
:19:07. > :19:10.they believe it is politically motivated. They think this is from
:19:11. > :19:14.the top in Government with all sides kind of saying you know this is what
:19:15. > :19:19.we need to do to try to keep people in Scotland on side. But what they
:19:20. > :19:24.forget is this is the home of the Navy. For mortages mouth then this
:19:25. > :19:28.is a sharp economic blow at a time when British manufacturing as a
:19:29. > :19:45.whole is showing real signs of recovery.
:19:46. > :19:50.whole is showing real signs of I have a little daughter as well.
:19:51. > :19:56.That is going to be hard for me to supply my daughter. So I'm quite
:19:57. > :20:04.angry about this. I'm hurt, yeah. It is not just 1,000 jobs, it is 1,000
:20:05. > :20:08.homes. I just really feel sorry for young boys.
:20:09. > :20:12.The Government says this isn't a matter of English jobs versus
:20:13. > :20:16.Scottish jobs, but for workers leaving this site in Portsmouth it
:20:17. > :20:22.might feel very much like that. Either way a black day for
:20:23. > :20:26.shipbuilding in Britain. We have been following the political
:20:27. > :20:28.debate about today's decision. In Portsmouth they certainly think it
:20:29. > :20:31.is political? Despite the fact that the UK Government, the Scottish
:20:32. > :20:36.Government, the shipbuilding industry, BAe itself all insist this
:20:37. > :20:37.is a purely industrial a matter a purely commercial decision. Public
:20:38. > :20:57.opinion doesn't seem to purely commercial decision. Public
:20:58. > :21:08.dangers of a "yes" vote. Alastair car Michael said an independent
:21:09. > :21:15.Scotland , could wave goodbye to contracts like this in the future.
:21:16. > :21:22.If Scotland removed herself from the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom
:21:23. > :21:25.would still have those contracts like today within their country. If
:21:26. > :21:28.Scotland is not part of the country it is difficult to see how the work
:21:29. > :21:32.would go to Scotland. The Scottish Government argue that
:21:33. > :21:36.is typical of the "no" campaign that has used fear as the principal
:21:37. > :21:43.weapon from the beginning, scaring the Scots about the economic dangers
:21:44. > :22:12.of the yes vote. The Deputy First Minister had this reaction.
:22:13. > :22:15.of the yes vote. The Deputy First the heart of the UK political
:22:16. > :22:19.landscape. Is south of the border it is stirring passions. Before when
:22:20. > :22:24.this was argued the Government would say it is matter for the Scots to
:22:25. > :22:28.decide. But there is changing there is a growing sense of grievance
:22:29. > :22:32.elsewhere in the UK that in Scotland there are no prescription charges
:22:33. > :22:36.and university fees are waved, and -- waved and now there is this
:22:37. > :22:43.lucrative shipbuilding contract. As the referendum approaches we can
:22:44. > :22:49.expect more UK-wide political issues to acquire a Scottish referendum
:22:50. > :22:53.dimension. Rightly or wrongly there is tonight out there a view that 800
:22:54. > :22:55.years of naval shipbuilding in England is coming to an end to
:22:56. > :23:15.appease disa-affected Scots. England is coming to an end to
:23:16. > :23:18.in any of the BAe Conservativeses? This is an industrial decision that
:23:19. > :23:22.is of course a very politically sensitive one. I really feel for the
:23:23. > :23:26.hundreds of families in Portsmouth, but also those in Scotland, because
:23:27. > :23:29.there are job losses there too who have been affected over this
:23:30. > :23:32.announcement. Did the referendum come up in the conversations about
:23:33. > :23:36.BAe making a decision? Nobody can make the decisions without what is
:23:37. > :23:39.happening in Scotland being at the back of their mind. However, right
:23:40. > :23:45.back three or four years ago. So that is a yes? Three years ago when
:23:46. > :23:48.a lot of this was bes discussed under the Strategic Defence Review,
:23:49. > :23:56.BAe were making it clear at that point that they believed Government
:23:57. > :24:00.-- Scotland was the place to build ships. We have had the huge
:24:01. > :24:05.programme to build carriers and frigets all of that had to come to
:24:06. > :24:06.an end. Inevitably there would be day like this. Hundreds of jobs lost
:24:07. > :24:29.in day like this. Hundreds of jobs lost
:24:30. > :24:32.the threat being, that a yes vote would mean the contracts could be
:24:33. > :24:36.reversed whether or not it is the best place to do it, do you back
:24:37. > :24:40.that?that? 'S say you cannot sign a contract for the next generation of
:24:41. > :24:46.warshs until you have the design. The words he used was "after the
:24:47. > :24:50.referendum"? The type 26 that is the big project going beyond this, that
:24:51. > :24:53.will be decided after the design is completed, later next year.
:24:54. > :25:07.Conveniently after the referendum. The point being, would you back, as
:25:08. > :25:12.a Scottish MP, in the position of a yes vote would you back that
:25:13. > :25:15.contract not coming to Scotland. I don't want to have the idea that
:25:16. > :25:37.Scotland will separate from the country procuring the Ships. Your
:25:38. > :25:42.colleague Ian Davidson talked about this decision being reversed in the
:25:43. > :25:52.event of a yes vote in a referendum. Is that your view too? The important
:25:53. > :25:56.point is this isn't Scotland versus England, hundreds of people lost
:25:57. > :26:01.their jobs today in Scotland and the last thing we need is anyone trying
:26:02. > :26:05.to play constitutional politics with this. Do you realise the uncertainty
:26:06. > :26:08.of this? Let's have solidarity of workers right across the UK who are
:26:09. > :26:13.struggling in this really difficult time. Let's put it another way. This
:26:14. > :26:19.creates a great deal of uncertainty in Portsmouth as well. Because what
:26:20. > :26:23.I'm asking you is do you agree with yo colleague, Ian Davidson that in
:26:24. > :26:26.the event of a yes vote this decision should be reversed and
:26:27. > :26:44.these jobs, because Scotland would not be part of
:26:45. > :26:46.these jobs, because Scotland would UK. That is why I don't think we
:26:47. > :26:51.need to contemplate hopefully Scotland will leave the UK, we need
:26:52. > :26:55.to campaign to leave it in the UK. Let's not make it a constitutional
:26:56. > :27:00.issue but reflect on the hundreds of families across the UK who have lost
:27:01. > :27:04.jobs today. And what we don't need is some divide between us and them.
:27:05. > :27:09.I feel just as much for the workers in Portsmouth as I do for the
:27:10. > :27:15.workers of Glasgow today. That is what is happening. The divide has
:27:16. > :27:20.been created. Alan Little says there are more issues in the next nine
:27:21. > :27:25.months being seen through the prism of the referendum issue? As we
:27:26. > :27:30.debate it in Scotland it will spill over to the UK. On balance I hope
:27:31. > :27:34.people say there is a big debate Scots have to have and I hope they
:27:35. > :27:55.will stay as part of the UK. What does the word
:27:56. > :28:06.will stay as part of the UK. Ryanair shareholders did, O'Leary is
:28:07. > :28:10.apparently on a charm offensive. You may be among those who hate it,
:28:11. > :28:16.but does that stop you using it. In spite of comedy routine, political
:28:17. > :28:24.attack and "I Hate Ryanair" the website. It carried 80 million
:28:25. > :28:31.passengers last year. Proof of its cheapness. It gets a mention in the
:28:32. > :28:35.latest cinematic success. It is free. You have to pay for everything
:28:36. > :28:42.on Ryanair. For over 15 years Ryanair has shrugged off its
:28:43. > :28:47.controversial reputation and kept growing. Lately it has had a bit of
:28:48. > :28:47.a hard landing. In the summer shares hit
:28:48. > :29:08.a hard landing. In the summer shares nose dived, they have lost a third
:29:09. > :29:14.of its value. Ryanair has allowed others to steal a March on customer
:29:15. > :29:18.service -- march on customer service. Others have upped their
:29:19. > :29:23.levels on a customer-friendly attitude. Ryanair has stuck to the
:29:24. > :29:27.traditional formula of offering low fares. It has served well down the
:29:28. > :29:34.years. But it is not working in the same way it used to. Ryanair's
:29:35. > :29:38.profit warning came after a poll as it was voted the worst brand for
:29:39. > :29:42.customer service. Fares that end up being far more than the advertised
:29:43. > :29:47.price, a ?50 fine for failing to print a boarding card, and no chance
:29:48. > :29:50.to reserve a seat. What's striking about Ryanair's business model is
:29:51. > :29:55.there is no sense of the customer always being right, let alone the
:29:56. > :29:56.customer is king. Until now that is something that its chief executive
:29:57. > :30:15.O'Leary something that its chief executive
:30:16. > :30:20.says's happy to take the blame for a macho abrupt culture, some of which
:30:21. > :30:24.may be down, he told shareholders to his own personal character
:30:25. > :30:29.deformities. And Ryanair should, as he put it, stop unnecessarily
:30:30. > :30:32.kissing people off. So no more of this then. So in economy it will be
:30:33. > :30:40.very cheap fares, and in business class it will be beds and bludgeons?
:30:41. > :30:46.We need fewer people queueing to go to the toilet, how do you do that,
:30:47. > :30:50.charge them for it? Shareholders are undecided if Ryanair as a business
:30:51. > :30:55.is climbing or beginning its descent, exactly how Michael O'Leary
:30:56. > :30:58.plans to reform an airline so closely identified with his own
:30:59. > :31:04.robust personality, only he can answer.
:31:05. > :31:05.And Michael O'Leary is here, and much plusher seats than on Ryanair.
:31:06. > :31:25.You first of all made you only need cheap publicity to
:31:26. > :31:29.sell them. The piece missing, we have had a fairly minor profit
:31:30. > :31:34.warnings. Two profit warnings? The profits will be down 10%. Shares
:31:35. > :31:42.have halved in value? They are up year to date. Instead of us making
:31:43. > :31:45.?570 million we make half a billion. The reason on the profit warning the
:31:46. > :31:49.good news is prices are down. The bad news is your shareholders didn't
:31:50. > :31:52.like the lack of customer service, and they didn't like the image that
:31:53. > :31:56.the airline was projecting and they thought that was potentially and
:31:57. > :32:00.indeed bad for business now. You are about to take 150 Boeings, you need
:32:01. > :32:04.to get better? Absolutely. We can always improve. But we are going to
:32:05. > :32:08.improve at a time when we are lowering the cost of air travel all
:32:09. > :32:14.over Europe. We have 81 million people. It is not enough? I have one
:32:15. > :32:15.of the highest low fare airlines. 1 million people choose to fly with
:32:16. > :32:34.us. million people choose to fly with
:32:35. > :32:38.old. You learn as you get older, you mature like a fine wine, but our
:32:39. > :32:42.prices keep going down. Which is why actually in last Friday we reported
:32:43. > :32:47.a 6% growth in October traffic and our load factors are up 1%. It is
:32:48. > :32:52.enough. You spoke to the shareholders, and I think this is
:32:53. > :32:56.the perfect quote, correct me if I'm wrong of course? Never Kirsty,
:32:57. > :33:01.surely. "I'm very happy to take the blame or responsibility if we have a
:33:02. > :33:08.macho or abrupt culture, some of that may well be down to my own
:33:09. > :33:11.personal character deformities" what are they? I'm some what much
:33:12. > :33:15.understood. It is not your fault? Of course it is. If there are any
:33:16. > :33:19.problems in the Ryanair service it is my fault. But character
:33:20. > :33:24.deformities, that is an interesting expression? What you say in a kind
:33:25. > :33:26.of wry and ironic sense in a meeting doesn't translate well later on. The
:33:27. > :33:45.of wry and ironic sense in a meeting it because there is no other service
:33:46. > :33:49.to the place they want to go. That is a business offering? We have 20%
:33:50. > :33:54.of our routes we have no competitor, 80% of our routes we have a
:33:55. > :33:59.competitor, everybody has a choice. 1 million people, put that in
:34:00. > :34:05.context. Bitter air ways carries -- British Airways carries less than
:34:06. > :34:10.30% of that. I save those people in one year ?3 billion over the fares
:34:11. > :34:14.charged by easyJet and 60% over other fares. You can't talk about
:34:15. > :34:18.fares later talk about it now. That is why people choose Ryanair, low
:34:19. > :34:24.fares and great service. Tell me, your attitude to women? My what? Who
:34:25. > :34:31.adverts pulled in 2012, scantily clad women with receipt hot fares
:34:32. > :34:33.and crew! Let's look at the image of a bikini-clad women in a jet engine.
:34:34. > :34:54.Is that appropriate to a bikini-clad women in a jet engine.
:34:55. > :34:58.tone of the company is we offer you lower fares than any other airlines.
:34:59. > :35:03.And women in bikinis? That is part of the travel industry. I know of
:35:04. > :35:07.almost no airline. These are not 15-stone women in bikini, they are
:35:08. > :35:11.this idea that you are selling something? In many cases it is not
:35:12. > :35:14.as sales. We use price to tell our tickets, we are promoting a charity
:35:15. > :35:21.calendar that over the last six years has raised 700,000 euros for
:35:22. > :35:29.charity and this year it will be 100,000 euros for the teenage cancer
:35:30. > :35:32.trust. It is a joint effort by the cabin crew, nobody criticises the
:35:33. > :35:38.Women's Institute for stripping naked but if our cab Britain crew do
:35:39. > :35:42.it and raise money for charity and you condemn it as our attitude to
:35:43. > :35:45.women. Our attitude to customers is offer lower fares and great service.
:35:46. > :36:06.The add-ones? offer lower fares and great service.
:36:07. > :36:11.your choice. I have been in a rayian air clue watching people being
:36:12. > :36:16.turned away to put their luggage in the hold? All the other airlines
:36:17. > :36:21.charge forks baggage. What is changing, if doesn't seem you want
:36:22. > :36:27.to change anything? Some things PEE our customers off, the free seating
:36:28. > :36:31.is changing it is gone. When you say free seating as in the run for the
:36:32. > :36:34.plane it is known as, are you going to charge for people to actually
:36:35. > :36:39.have their seat numbers? You will have the option of paying for
:36:40. > :36:42.selecting your seat or having a seat allocated to you for free. It will
:36:43. > :36:47.be your choice. In all cases with our charges they are optional. And
:36:48. > :36:54.yet we tend to sometimes get hit over the head for charges paid by
:36:55. > :37:12.less than 0. 1% of passengers. 99. 9% of our passengers have never
:37:13. > :37:17.will you print it out, we sent you e-mails before the departure and a
:37:18. > :37:20.text. If you still show up without your boarding card... It is
:37:21. > :37:23.interesting you are making this huge defence at the moment, having
:37:24. > :37:26.already admitted to your shareholders that there is a problem
:37:27. > :37:30.with your attitude, but you seem to have said there is a problem with
:37:31. > :37:34.your attitude there and then gone away with your fingers crossed
:37:35. > :37:42.behind your back and saying it is all fine. What we have done is
:37:43. > :37:48.announced a series of customer service improvement, the recapture
:37:49. > :37:52.on the website, the free seating and rush for the plane, and not allowing
:37:53. > :37:58.ladies carry a small handbag on to the plane. We are still lowering the
:37:59. > :38:02.cost of air travel and saving our customers billions each year, not
:38:03. > :38:04.millions, billions. Let's turn to another aspect whereof there are
:38:05. > :38:23.concerns about Ryanair, another aspect whereof there are
:38:24. > :38:28.whizzle blowing in you like in Ryanair. That really does come back
:38:29. > :38:31.to the way you lead the airline? Absolute rubbish. The safety
:38:32. > :38:34.authorities of Ireland issued a statement the following day saying
:38:35. > :38:38.we have no concerns over Ryanair safety, there is an absolute and
:38:39. > :38:41.confidential safety reporting system through the airline and safety
:38:42. > :38:44.authorities, and the Dispatches programme was based on false and
:38:45. > :38:49.misleading information. You have created and built a successful
:38:50. > :38:54.airline, but maybe it is over? Europe's favourite airline. What if
:38:55. > :38:58.the shareholders remain unhappy with your own performance? Who are these
:38:59. > :39:02.shareholders you are talking to. Will you leave? I will continue to
:39:03. > :39:06.lead the company until the majority of shareholders ask me to leave.
:39:07. > :39:12.Thank you very much indeed. In the world of statistics this man is a
:39:13. > :39:14.rock 'n' roll star, in the era where there is talk of rapid population
:39:15. > :39:34.growth, he uses hard there is talk of rapid population
:39:35. > :39:38.Two called Don't Panic. It will continue up to eight and then nine
:39:39. > :39:41.and then here, it is slowing down, it is slowing down by the end of the
:39:42. > :39:48.century it is becoming more flat there. And if I do a close up on
:39:49. > :39:54.this, can you see that we are expecting a slowing down and the end
:39:55. > :40:00.of as if population growth. The professor is here with me. You are
:40:01. > :40:04.passionate about it and you have another way of explaining it to us?
:40:05. > :40:10.I'm showing the world here in 1963 each bubble is a country, the size
:40:11. > :40:14.is the population, this is China and India, and colours show the region
:40:15. > :40:19.where they are situated. America, Europe, Africa and Asia. You can see
:40:20. > :40:23.in 1963 I'm showing the countries here according to a number of babies
:40:24. > :40:45.per women down here. Small countries had high child mortality
:40:46. > :40:50.and large families. Look almost no-one inbetween. This has changed.
:40:51. > :40:56.It has changed immensely. Let me show you. I'm starting the world
:40:57. > :41:00.here. And you can see how 65, 66 they are falling down, this is China
:41:01. > :41:03.they start family planning they go to smaller families here, India is
:41:04. > :41:08.following. This is Brazil and Mexico. They don't care about the
:41:09. > :41:12.Vatican, they used the condom they got fewer and fewer children, but
:41:13. > :41:17.first lower child mortality, then smaller families and the entire
:41:18. > :41:23.world is transforming. We get less and less children per women. African
:41:24. > :41:30.companies are very successful here. The average number of children per
:41:31. > :41:34.woman today is 2. 5. Some few countries are lagging behind, they
:41:35. > :41:53.need contraceptives and more help with child
:41:54. > :42:00.nothing happened back in history and then it fell like never before. So
:42:01. > :42:04.we are down at 2. 5 today. This is why when we look at the total
:42:05. > :42:11.population, these people may be concerned about. But it is the
:42:12. > :42:15.number of adults, look here the children have stopped increasing.
:42:16. > :42:19.The implications of that for society you have something low tech to show
:42:20. > :42:22.us about that. I'm going to show you why the number of children is not
:42:23. > :42:26.increasing. Where as the number of adults, that is why you have the
:42:27. > :42:32.increase. To understand this, because this is sort of difficult
:42:33. > :42:37.and many people think if children stop growing you get population
:42:38. > :42:42.growth stopping. No, the brakingies stance is 70 years -- the braking
:42:43. > :43:04.distance is 70 years. This is the two billion children aged up to 15,
:43:05. > :43:07.distance is 70 years. This is the not missing because they died, they
:43:08. > :43:12.were never born. What will happen when the number of children will not
:43:13. > :43:19.increase, the old will die the rest will grow older, the old die the
:43:20. > :43:24.rest die and get two billion children. And look, without the
:43:25. > :43:29.longer life, without more children you get three billion more adults.
:43:30. > :43:33.Thank you very much indeed. The big Twitter launch is set to be the
:43:34. > :43:38.stock market event of the year, at least if you believe talk it may be
:43:39. > :43:42.valued as worth as much as $15 billion. It depends what people are
:43:43. > :43:52.prepared to pay. We look at what's on offer. With Twitter you get 140
:43:53. > :43:53.characters to tell your story. For the story of Twitter we need four
:43:54. > :44:16.characters. Jack Dorsey, say the least. This is the story of
:44:17. > :44:22.our average Silicon Valley start-up. After their last idea crashed and
:44:23. > :44:26.burned. They were desperate for a new multibillion dollar a year. Jack
:44:27. > :44:31.Dorsey had an idea of communicating status, what you are up to. You can
:44:32. > :44:34.see from his original one page of A 4 blueprint, it was a simple idea.
:44:35. > :44:38.You can see incidentally also he was still a student when he came up with
:44:39. > :44:44.this idea. The only status options he provides are either "in bed" or
:44:45. > :44:49."at the park". It was our friends who built this thing, they wanted to
:44:50. > :44:53.build a technology that would expect emthem to their -- connect them to
:44:54. > :44:57.their friends and ended up tearing their friendships apart. Almost from
:44:58. > :45:05.the moment that Twitter was hatched it became this thing that started to
:45:06. > :45:23.change the world. It took off instantly, as soon as
:45:24. > :45:29.change the world. It took off took the job but was persuaded to
:45:30. > :45:34.move on in 2008, Evan was relieved of the roll and like Biz shunted
:45:35. > :45:38.into a non-job just eventually stopped coming into the office. Now
:45:39. > :45:43.the company is on the cusp of its stock market float. With a price tag
:45:44. > :45:47.of somewhere like $15 billion. It is popular of course, but popularity
:45:48. > :45:53.doesn't guarantee a business model or sustainable revenues. It is still
:45:54. > :45:56.losing money. $65 million losses in the last quarter alone. We are
:45:57. > :46:00.already getting hints of what Twitter might become, you can, right
:46:01. > :46:04.now send someone a coffee on Twitter, or at least a code they can
:46:05. > :46:07.redeem at Starbucks. Maybe gift vouchers or cash payments in the
:46:08. > :46:12.future. Then of course there is advertising. All of this depends on
:46:13. > :46:15.Twitter remaining popular and making sure that the money making doesn't
:46:16. > :46:34.get in the way of sure that the money making doesn't
:46:35. > :46:41.dollars. Evan's shares could net him around a billion dollars, poor old
:46:42. > :46:45.Biz could only get $10 million. Which leaves Noah, thought to have
:46:46. > :46:51.almost no shares, he could end up with the start up equivalent of
:46:52. > :46:55.loose change. Perhaps one of the others will tweet him a coffee. That
:46:56. > :47:03.is all from us tonight, Jeremy is the pilot tomorrow. Good night.