:00:19. > :00:21.Tonight we talk to one of the rebel commanders in Syria who
:00:22. > :00:41.Tonight we talk to one of the rebel to eat them. A Conservative MP who
:00:42. > :00:46.wants to oblige his own party to hold a referendum on whether we
:00:47. > :00:51.should leave the EU next year. What's he about? And one for the
:00:52. > :00:57.geeks, Star Trek and soon to be Star Wars director JJAbrams sits down and
:00:58. > :01:03.talks science fiction in books and films. What are the rest of us
:01:04. > :01:07.missing. Do you feel visual effects have reached some realisim level.
:01:08. > :01:15.When you look at movies you start to see a kind of almost Kleined scopic
:01:16. > :01:22.effect of -- collide scopic effect and you don't know where to look,
:01:23. > :01:23.there is so much happening. It emerged today that the United States
:01:24. > :01:50.is bringing home the USSNimet, the emerged today that the United States
:01:51. > :01:54.hear less andless of the forces fighting the dictatorship, because
:01:55. > :01:58.they discourage foreign journalists through kidnapping and torture and
:01:59. > :02:02.threats. The patience with many of the rebels with the western
:02:03. > :02:11.Governments who claim to be on their side has run out. Four stories of
:02:12. > :02:16.pain and loss. As you go up the stairs in this makeshift
:02:17. > :02:21.rehabilitation centre for sick and wounded Syrians in Turkey, every
:02:22. > :02:24.door discloses a scene of broking lives. They are living now virtually
:02:25. > :02:33.without possessions in a foreign country. In London, Geneva, Is
:02:34. > :02:37.Istanbul, Syrian politicians and exiled politicians are arguing about
:02:38. > :02:40.how to end the war. But the rebellion started without them, and
:02:41. > :02:58.they won't decide when it ends. It is commanders in
:02:59. > :03:03.they won't decide when it ends. It commanders is breaking free. Colonel
:03:04. > :03:07.Abdul has resigned as head of the Free Syrian Army in Aleppo, and told
:03:08. > :03:12.Newsnight the west has betrayed his forces by doing a deal with
:03:13. > :03:21.President Assad to get rid of chemical weapons. TRANSLATION: When
:03:22. > :03:28.Mr Obama says chemical weapons are a red line, that gives Assad a green
:03:29. > :03:34.light to use conventional weapons, ballistic missile, scud missile,
:03:35. > :03:38.figers planes like MiG, helicopter, rocket launchers and tanks. All
:03:39. > :03:41.these can be used by this regime to kill the Syrian people. So the
:03:42. > :03:46.western stance has been very negative towards the Syrian
:03:47. > :03:49.revolution. As Syrians we think the west is supporting the criminal
:03:50. > :04:13.Assad regime. west is supporting the criminal
:04:14. > :04:18.head of the Islamist Talhed Brigade, to defend a town against the Assad
:04:19. > :04:23.forces, it was eventually lost because the rebels weren't united.
:04:24. > :04:27.And the regime, backed by Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon was far better
:04:28. > :04:31.armed. TRANSLATION: Of course in terms of weapons and ammunition we
:04:32. > :04:33.have not received anything at all. Some communications equipment,
:04:34. > :04:38.that's all, and some ready meals from the US. How many ready meals?
:04:39. > :04:45.TRANSLATION: I don't know, because the fighters refused to eat them. !
:04:46. > :04:49.CLAIL Now a new rebel line-up is being formed, including this senior
:04:50. > :04:55.commander who has travelled to meet me. It is a line-up of Islamist,
:04:56. > :04:56.some were in the western-approved Free Syrian Army, now they are
:04:57. > :05:22.talking of breaking away. Some Free Syrian Army, now they are
:05:23. > :05:27.powers are more worried by Islamics concerns than the dictatorship.
:05:28. > :05:30.TRANSLATION: Does the world have double standards and only interested
:05:31. > :05:34.in the length of somebody's beard. That is all they see, not the amount
:05:35. > :05:37.of blood that was spilt. Even if there is religious extremism in
:05:38. > :05:43.Syria, that is natural, we ask the world to help get rid of Assad but
:05:44. > :05:48.nobody listened, so we rely on good alone. Would you be happy to fight
:05:49. > :05:53.with the extremists if they were happy to fight with you?
:05:54. > :05:56.TRANSLATION: Yes, I'm ready to fight side-by-side with them to bring the
:05:57. > :06:02.regime down. Western policies based on the idea that there is a moderate
:06:03. > :06:07.mainstream in Syria, inbetween regime loyalists and radical
:06:08. > :06:26.Islamists. Among ordinary Syrians there certainly is, but among
:06:27. > :06:32.Islamists. Among ordinary Syrians of a successful peace conference
:06:33. > :06:36.become ever slimmer. TRANSLATION: I don't think it will succeed, while
:06:37. > :06:41.the regime continues to kill people, the air force bombs people from the
:06:42. > :06:47.air and directs artillery fire at them. I don't think under such
:06:48. > :06:55.circumstances anybody can go to negotiations or peace talks with
:06:56. > :07:00.such a criminal regime. That certainly is how the wounded at the
:07:01. > :07:03.rehab centre feel. You might think their suffering would make them want
:07:04. > :07:07.an end to the war. In fact, it has made them all the more insistent
:07:08. > :07:18.that their victory should be complete. Tim joins us now. What are
:07:19. > :07:19.the rebels up to there? Well there are endless meetings going on
:07:20. > :07:40.Army, backed politically by the West, or whether they want to
:07:41. > :07:47.break-away into a new Islamist group that might even be called the Army
:07:48. > :07:50.of Mohammed. There are many here trying to do all they can to stop
:07:51. > :07:54.that, they fear it would reduce support and sympathy for the rebels
:07:55. > :08:00.still more. Are they going to make it to the peace talks in Geneva?
:08:01. > :08:06.There are endless talks about that as well in Istanbul they will be
:08:07. > :08:10.going on all weekend among exiled Syrian politicians. Many of whom
:08:11. > :08:14.lack credibility among the fighters on the ground. And maybe it is
:08:15. > :08:19.because they lack legitimacy, they are unlikely to give any clear
:08:20. > :08:23.answers maybe for fear of stabbing in the back the people back home. At
:08:24. > :08:27.most they will say yes they will go but only in impossible conditions
:08:28. > :08:48.which President Assad agrees to but only in impossible conditions
:08:49. > :08:52.admiring it was to go and see it. He might have felt the same about the
:08:53. > :08:56.House of Commons today when one MP after another rose to talk and talk
:08:57. > :09:01.and talk for as long as possible to try to stuff the chances of a
:09:02. > :09:06.Private Members Bill passing through parliament. The subject of the
:09:07. > :09:10.proposed law was the old Conservative source of grief, what
:09:11. > :09:13.is the point of Britain belonging to the EU. This Conservative MP wanted
:09:14. > :09:20.to force the Government to hold a referendum before the next election.
:09:21. > :09:26.David Grossman watched it AUCHLT -- all. It is not the most obvious TV
:09:27. > :09:32.hit ever. A political drama about Danish politics in Danish.
:09:33. > :09:38.But Borgen is nevertheless back for another season. MPs apparently love
:09:39. > :09:39.it. It could have done with some subtitles in the Commons today, the
:09:40. > :09:58.debate subtitles in the Commons today, the
:09:59. > :10:01.following 60 years of Franco-German reconciliation and EU achievement
:10:02. > :10:05.would never have occurred. That is a matter I believe organisations
:10:06. > :10:10.particularly veterans' organisations, under new schedule 2
:10:11. > :10:16.(J) should be properly consulted on. MPs were discussing whether to have
:10:17. > :10:21.a referendum on the EU. As a certain Danish play nearly had it to be in
:10:22. > :10:25.or not to be in! In the role of Prince was James Warden, a
:10:26. > :10:30.Conservative MP who came top in the ballot of backbench MPs, his prize,
:10:31. > :10:34.precious Commons time, with which to introduce a bill. He wants to pass a
:10:35. > :10:39.law requiring the UK to have a Europe referendum by 2017. Despite
:10:40. > :10:44.having previously opposed a referendum, David Cameron now wants
:10:45. > :10:47.one. But can't give Government time to the bill because he's in a
:10:48. > :10:48.coalition with Nick Clegg who doesn't want a referendum, despite
:10:49. > :11:08.the fact doesn't want a referendum, despite
:11:09. > :11:11.the European Union. What this is... It is not? What are they talking
:11:12. > :11:15.about? They are talking about giving Conservatives a retail offer they
:11:16. > :11:20.can sell on the doorstep saying our pledges to give you referendums on
:11:21. > :11:29.the European Union are real and bona fide. And their's aren't. A further
:11:30. > :11:31.complication is one Conservative MP, Adam Afreye is trying to bring
:11:32. > :11:35.forward the referendum to this side of the general election. Some
:11:36. > :11:40.interpret this as a rather naked attempt to destablise David Cameron.
:11:41. > :11:43.It strikes me the majority of our constituents and the British people
:11:44. > :11:47.want a referendum before the next election. I have never known a time
:11:48. > :11:52.in British politics when the politic Establishment has been so
:11:53. > :11:57.dissecretaried, so remote and in opposition and -- disconnected and
:11:58. > :11:59.remote and out-of-touch and in opposition of the British public.
:12:00. > :12:16.The Prime opposition of the British public.
:12:17. > :12:22.case it proves electorally unpopular. Today we saw dozens of
:12:23. > :12:26.time-sapping interventions and amendments. We join the action as
:12:27. > :12:33.the tellers are about to report one of these nail-biting votes. The ayes
:12:34. > :12:41.to the right, 299, the noes to the left, zero. Yes, that's right, not
:12:42. > :12:46.even the person who tabled the amendment voted for it. World class
:12:47. > :12:49.time wasting? Sadly, not even close. In the mother of parliaments they
:12:50. > :12:55.insist that speeches are at least vaguely to the point. Tonight girls
:12:56. > :13:00.you are here, you girls don't get to pick the book so I got to pick green
:13:01. > :13:04.eggs and ham. No such nit-picking and fussiness in the US, if you are
:13:05. > :13:08.sitting comfortably, here is part of the recent debate on health. That
:13:09. > :13:27.Sam I am, I do not like that Sam I am.
:13:28. > :13:29.Sam I am, I do not like that Sam I Ladbrokes are giving on your
:13:30. > :13:37.amendment being passed? I don't know. I will tell you, it is 100-1,
:13:38. > :13:47.that is the same as the chances of JAB could be RRhys-Mogg being leader
:13:48. > :13:52.of the party? I know it is tough to get it tabled. But I'm trying to
:13:53. > :13:56.give it a voice this side of the election which is what people want.
:13:57. > :14:00.You know this talk about you being future leader of the party. You know
:14:01. > :14:06.all this talk? Sorry the question is? You do know all the talk? What I
:14:07. > :14:10.was trying to do today Jeremy as I was trying to make sure the British
:14:11. > :14:13.people got a say in the European Union referendum this side of the
:14:14. > :14:18.election. It occurred to us you are a unifying figure, there are not
:14:19. > :14:19.many people who could get Bill Cash and David Cameron on the same side
:14:20. > :14:39.in a and David Cameron on the same side
:14:40. > :14:44.were going to win the election there would be a certain referendum
:14:45. > :14:47.wouldn't there? I hope we will win the election and we should work very
:14:48. > :14:52.hard to do that. What I was saying in my 90 seconds in the debate, what
:14:53. > :14:55.I was saying is this, the only way to guarantee that British people
:14:56. > :14:59.have a say on Europe is to deliver it within this parliament. That was
:15:00. > :15:03.the point I was making. That is what the amendment seeks to do. Because I
:15:04. > :15:06.might lose the next election? It is better to have a bird in the hand
:15:07. > :15:09.than promise things for the future, when we don't know what the election
:15:10. > :15:12.outcome will be or the circumstances at the time. Do you think you might
:15:13. > :15:15.stand a better chance of winning the election with a different leader?
:15:16. > :15:18.David Cameron is doing a tremenduously good job in incredibly
:15:19. > :15:22.difficult circumstance, come on, he has to wake up every morning
:15:23. > :15:24.thinking about Nick Clegg. He has a challenging economic environment.
:15:25. > :15:28.There are troubles abroad and at home. He's doing a good job in
:15:29. > :15:29.difficult circumstance, he is the Prime Minister. What this is about,
:15:30. > :15:49.what this is want. But they are going to get it?
:15:50. > :15:53.If the Conservatives win the election David Cameron will
:15:54. > :15:56.certainly. If they win the next election? Can you predict the
:15:57. > :16:00.future, it is very hard. But if we win the election then of course,
:16:01. > :16:04.David, I completely trust him to deliver the referendum in 2017. The
:16:05. > :16:10.problem is we don't know what the outcome of the election will be.
:16:11. > :16:14.That is why in many ways, and the lone star of the left says this as
:16:15. > :16:17.well, in many ways you either want to have the referendum sooner to
:16:18. > :16:20.restore business certainty and confidence and be back together as a
:16:21. > :16:23.nation and have a democratic mandate for our Prime Minister to conduct
:16:24. > :16:27.the negotiations or the withdrawal, or you want to have it a long time
:16:28. > :16:31.down the road. What we need is certainty, businesses need
:16:32. > :16:36.certainty, the people want this, and they think it is better if it comes
:16:37. > :16:38.within this parliament. But you are just adding to the uncertainty? No,
:16:39. > :16:59.if my amendment passes and just adding to the uncertainty? No,
:17:00. > :17:06.crying out for a long time. How many amendments are there? I have tabled
:17:07. > :17:11.the amendment and the Labour Party have put one in. The fate of that is
:17:12. > :17:14.in the speakser's office and the MPs as to whether it is called for a
:17:15. > :17:18.vote and whether people will vote for it. Bill Cash is saying it is
:17:19. > :17:23.nuts? He doesn't say that. We get on very well indeed. Bill Cash has some
:17:24. > :17:28.concerns and rightly about specifying a precise date. That is
:17:29. > :17:36.when it comes to it, it may be we vote on a Devon bill to have a
:17:37. > :17:40.referendum in 2014. Do you he have any idea how many people support
:17:41. > :17:46.this idea in your party? There are many, it is about what people do on
:17:47. > :17:50.the day if there is a vote. I can't guarantee that. I'm fighting tooth
:17:51. > :18:08.and nail and it has been pretty hard work,
:18:09. > :18:11.and nail and it has been pretty hard guaranteed within this parliament.
:18:12. > :18:15.You are asking me can I predict the future, I don't know if the speaker
:18:16. > :18:19.will collect it to be spoken on. I'm not asking you to predict the future
:18:20. > :18:23.but you can't put a figure on it, can you, is it dozens, you can't
:18:24. > :18:28.even tell me if it is the fingers of one hand? I can tell you many MPs if
:18:29. > :18:31.it comes to a vote will support the amendment. I'm hoping that every MP
:18:32. > :18:36.will look at their constituents and listen to the public opinion, where
:18:37. > :18:40.80% want a referendum, 55% want it is this side of the election and
:18:41. > :18:44.even in the Conservative Party 57% of Conservatives want a referendum
:18:45. > :18:48.before 2017. So I'm trying to be the voice of the people, the voice of my
:18:49. > :18:53.party, to give MPs the final chance, this is the last chance to actually
:18:54. > :18:58.have a referendum within this parliament. Thank you very much. It
:18:59. > :19:17.has been a pleasure. In a moment. Oh! How
:19:18. > :19:21.has been a pleasure. In a moment. about an imminent nuclear deal with
:19:22. > :19:25.Iran. John Kerry's bucket of cold water was in remarkable contrast to
:19:26. > :19:30.suggestions that sanctions against Iran were about to be relaxed. A
:19:31. > :19:34.prospect that got the Israelis pretty livid. How realistic is a
:19:35. > :19:37.lasting deal and what would be acceptable to the hardline Iranian
:19:38. > :19:42.clerics. A spokesman for Iran's nuclear
:19:43. > :19:47.negotiators before 2005 joins us from Princen to university. What --
:19:48. > :19:54.Princen to university. What to you thi are the chances? The chances are
:19:55. > :19:58.high. I believe we have had the most serious negotiations between Iran
:19:59. > :20:05.and the world powers in the last six or seven years. Already they have
:20:06. > :20:07.agreed about the principles of the final deal. Also they have discussed
:20:08. > :20:29.the details. What is left final deal. Also they have discussed
:20:30. > :20:36.change is about the US position in 2003-2005 when I was a member of the
:20:37. > :20:43.negotiation team, the US red line was no enrichment. After President
:20:44. > :20:47.Obama was elected in 2009 the US straight line has been changed. Now
:20:48. > :20:52.the red line is no nuclear bomb, this is something which Iran can
:20:53. > :20:58.live with, this red line. That is why after the Iranian special
:20:59. > :21:02.elections the political atmosphere internationally completely changed.
:21:03. > :21:09.It opened the door for serious negotiations. Iran put a very
:21:10. > :21:13.comprehensive package on the table on October 15/16 negotiations in
:21:14. > :21:17.Geneva. In the last round of talk, just two days ago they he discussed
:21:18. > :21:19.the details. -- they discussed the details. The two parties have a very
:21:20. > :21:38.clear transparency measures. Iran would be
:21:39. > :21:45.fully co-operative on transparency measures. Also Iran would be ready
:21:46. > :21:50.to co-operate with the world powers on confidence building measures that
:21:51. > :21:56.Iranian nuclear programmes would remain peaceful forever. There would
:21:57. > :22:05.be no breakout to our weaponisation. These are two big achievements on
:22:06. > :22:11.the nuclear talks. At the same time they have understood they need to
:22:12. > :22:21.respect the rights of Iran on their non- on their NPT. You sound quite
:22:22. > :22:27.optimistic? I'm optimistic because the principles are agreed already.
:22:28. > :22:29.The framework is agreed this is for the first time they have agreed on
:22:30. > :22:52.The framework is agreed this is for the US ability to lift the sanctions
:22:53. > :22:56.in return of Iranian overtures on transparency measures and no
:22:57. > :23:04.breakout measures. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Now a date
:23:05. > :23:15.made in geek heaven, the author of Never Where, The Graveyard Book,
:23:16. > :23:19.meets JJ Abrams, the man chosen to rehabilitate the Star Wars franchise
:23:20. > :23:24.and director of Star Trek. He's coauthor of an unusual book,
:23:25. > :23:28.described as a library book, covered in scribbles with odd scraps of
:23:29. > :23:33.paper hidden inside it. We were intrigued so went to see him. Show
:23:34. > :23:38.us what somebody buying the book will experience? You open the book
:23:39. > :23:39.and you Jews cover there are wage -- you discover there
:23:40. > :24:01.and you Jews cover there are wage -- things like letters that go into
:24:02. > :24:07.more detail. How as an author do you go about building something like
:24:08. > :24:10.that? The text had been written first. As I was going along thinking
:24:11. > :24:16.about the margins story, there would be moments in the Text of Ship that
:24:17. > :24:22.would clearly offer themselves up. That would clear trigger, to me,
:24:23. > :24:27.trigger some moment between them. It wasn't calculated it was
:24:28. > :24:33.impro-advised. One of the things I loved was the feeling that you come
:24:34. > :24:36.right out at the end of the introduction and have your
:24:37. > :24:39.characters writing backwards and forwards and essentially telling the
:24:40. > :24:45.reader there is no wrong way to read the book. I think that the key to it
:24:46. > :24:47.is that we knew that everyone would approach it differently and the
:24:48. > :25:07.truth is that S approach it differently and the
:25:08. > :25:11.chunks, you have made something that demands attention. Is there
:25:12. > :25:15.something faintly counterintuitive about that at this point? Possibly.
:25:16. > :25:20.It seems to me it might be an oversimplification. I don't know
:25:21. > :25:27.actually how true that is. Get to your point! I'm kidding. You have
:25:28. > :25:33.been responsible here for the creation of a book which treats the
:25:34. > :25:37.book as object in a way, but it hasn't been treated before? The idea
:25:38. > :25:42.came out of the object. I found a book at Los Angeles International
:25:43. > :25:46.Airport, 15 or so years ago, a paper back sitting on a bench, I picked it
:25:47. > :25:50.up and opened it up and someone had written "to whom ever finds this
:25:51. > :25:55.book read it, take it somewhere else and leave it for someone to find
:25:56. > :26:00.it". It was signed "Janet" and she left it there for someone. The idea
:26:01. > :26:17.of a book having a like spoke to me for some
:26:18. > :26:22.of a book having a like spoke to me SEENGS goal, not anything else and
:26:23. > :26:26.it was a natural evolution of a notion. People are predicting the
:26:27. > :26:30.death of a book and the end of the book, the idea that all books are
:26:31. > :26:33.becoming electronic and predicting the end of libraries, and you have
:26:34. > :26:40.created something that has to be a book and it is set in a library? For
:26:41. > :26:45.some reason the analogue object there is such incredible comfort in
:26:46. > :26:48.a physical book, I know it sounds silly but there is something about
:26:49. > :26:51.holding the Boca and being able to see -- the book and being able to
:26:52. > :26:56.see how far you have gone and the book mark and the g-eared page.
:26:57. > :27:03.There is something about the experience of holding the book that
:27:04. > :27:06.is so comforting and I think in an increasingly digital world there is
:27:07. > :27:08.huge value in the tactile and analogue, that is something "S
:27:09. > :27:29."celebrates. Do you analogue, that is something "S
:27:30. > :27:33.it hadn't been written with the air and thoughtfulness -- care and
:27:34. > :27:37.thoughtfulness and skill that Doug brings to his work it would be a
:27:38. > :27:39.gimmick. I have seen it in the work of so many people I admire,
:27:40. > :27:45.including yourself where you think this is the thing. But in lesser
:27:46. > :27:49.hands it is transparent, can you see through it and you know what it is
:27:50. > :27:53.and it doesn't have any import. I think that done well it can be both.
:27:54. > :28:00.So what I would like to think is it is something that is neither high or
:28:01. > :28:03.low but it is this kind of, you know,am malMUS cocktail of an idea
:28:04. > :28:08.that is quick to understand, but an experience that is, I think, rich
:28:09. > :28:12.and deep and that is all thanks to Doug. Everything you have done to
:28:13. > :28:16.date that people know you for, first of all on the small screen and then
:28:17. > :28:19.on the large screen. How does it feel to have no screen? It is funny,
:28:20. > :28:39.somebody asked me story tellers for a film or TV
:28:40. > :28:47.actually was fairly close to this, but the process of making it was a
:28:48. > :28:54.much more intimate and far less political collaboration, which made
:28:55. > :28:58.it that much more wonderful. When a meteor struck in Russia earlier this
:28:59. > :29:04.year people commented it looked like something from a JJ Abrams film. Do
:29:05. > :29:09.you think visual effects have reached a realisim limit at this
:29:10. > :29:16.point? I think, and I'm as quilty as anyone, you start to see a
:29:17. > :29:20.kaleidoscopic effect of visual effects and it is happening now
:29:21. > :29:26.because you can do that. There is one focus and one thing. If you look
:29:27. > :29:48.at old films and the visual effects, like Matt Paintings, and Albert whit
:29:49. > :29:50.at old films and the visual effects, there was an incredible efficiency
:29:51. > :29:55.of dialogue because you knew there would be cards coming up in silent
:29:56. > :29:58.films. You had characters saying things that were essential. Once
:29:59. > :30:03.there was sound you could be loose e and there have been many, many films
:30:04. > :30:06.that have used sound and you wonder sometimes does everything need to be
:30:07. > :30:13.said that is said. I think we're past this kind of moment of hoping
:30:14. > :30:17.we can do things visually in movies. We can do anything now. The
:30:18. > :30:22.essential question now is what is essential? We hear rumours there may
:30:23. > :30:30.be British casting of stars wars, is this true? It wouldn't be Star Wars
:30:31. > :30:33.if there wasn't fantastic actors who happened to be British. I think
:30:34. > :30:37.we're doing our job and looking everywhere for the best possible
:30:38. > :30:40.actors for the roles. Nothing is more important, there are things as
:30:41. > :31:00.important, but nothing is more important than casting
:31:01. > :31:04.important, but nothing is more project. Even as I speak we're
:31:05. > :31:08.tweeting a link to an extended version of that interview on our
:31:09. > :31:14.YouTube channel. That's for another week, last week we made it on to the
:31:15. > :31:19.water cooler show of the moment, Channel 4's Gogglebox which records
:31:20. > :31:22.the reactions of people watching television shows. We didn't do so
:31:23. > :31:32.well this week, I wonder why, I guess we will never know? Good
:31:33. > :31:44.night. I'm getting bored with it now. I was bored after five minutes.