:00:09. > :00:15.On Newsnight tonight, the dark side of the internet. We visit some of
:00:16. > :00:23.the sites where money can buy you anything. Guns, drugs, even an
:00:24. > :00:30.assassination. We talk to the former Foreign Secretary, Ed Miliband about
:00:31. > :00:35.disasters and the David Miliband and about disasters and the threat they
:00:36. > :00:42.pose. Immediately at the same time after the threat of sanitation and
:00:43. > :00:45.difficulties, there is an increased threat of violence against women, to
:00:46. > :00:48.turn away from that would be wrong. The Syrians who have had to feed
:00:49. > :00:56.their country not because of war, but because parts of it are now run
:00:57. > :01:01.by Al-Qaeda. And can it really be worthwhile for
:01:02. > :01:14.supermarkets and department stores to spend a fortune on Christmas
:01:15. > :01:18.marketing like this. First tonight, who says the media
:01:19. > :01:23.don't report good news? 177,000 more people have jobs now than was the
:01:24. > :01:27.case three months ago. Employment is growing much faster than the Bank of
:01:28. > :01:31.England predicted. The governor of the bank has said he doesn't expect
:01:32. > :01:36.interest rates to rise until unemployment falls below 7%. But
:01:37. > :01:40.that now looks as if it will happen much sooner than had been predicted.
:01:41. > :01:47.As early as this time next year perhaps. Who dare raise interest
:01:48. > :01:54.rates in the current climate. It doesn't seem like a good moment to
:01:55. > :01:58.hold your breath. If you order chicken and chips at the new
:01:59. > :02:03.low-opened franchise in Streatham Hill in south London, you will serve
:02:04. > :02:07.by someone who has been through long-term unemployment. Before
:02:08. > :02:11.opening in June the new owner faced difficulties in finding staff, he
:02:12. > :02:16.went to the welfare-to-work firm A4e, which had no shortage of
:02:17. > :02:20.willing friars. All of his new staff were long-term unemployed and some
:02:21. > :02:24.hadn't worked for years. How long were you out of work for? About a
:02:25. > :02:29.year. What was that like? Getting up in the day and nothing to do really.
:02:30. > :02:33.What to do? There was only so many times can you apply for a job like
:02:34. > :02:39.that. You go out and you look for work you get a bit disheartened and
:02:40. > :02:43.you go out and the position is filled or not enough experience, or
:02:44. > :02:48.whatever reason, it weren't nice, it was horrible. How about your income,
:02:49. > :02:52.how has that changed? It is difficult, before you used to have a
:02:53. > :02:56.budget of ?70 and now I have got much bigger budget, I find it really
:02:57. > :03:02.quite difficult to know what to do with my money now. Save it? Save it
:03:03. > :03:06.and that and go to the cinema and that, Christmas coming up everybody
:03:07. > :03:12.will be very happy now, nice Christmas present each one. Youth
:03:13. > :03:15.unemployment fell by 9,000 to 965,000 in the three months to the
:03:16. > :03:21.end of September. While those without a job for more than a year
:03:22. > :03:23.fell to 890,000, overall unemployment was down 48,000 over
:03:24. > :03:27.three months and by more than a quarter of a million over a year.
:03:28. > :03:33.That is the biggest annual drop since the 1990s, the rate is now
:03:34. > :03:36.7.6%. Good news, you would have thought, and the Governor of the
:03:37. > :03:40.Bank of England thinks so. For the first time in a long time you don't
:03:41. > :03:45.have to be an optimist to see the glass is half full. The recovery has
:03:46. > :03:50.finally taken hold. The governor's glass may be half full by the City's
:03:51. > :03:54.is half empty, that is because Mark Carney has given forward guidance
:03:55. > :03:59.and said as long as unemployment is above 7% interest rates won't rise.
:04:00. > :04:02.The City has taken it the other way round saying if unemployment gets
:04:03. > :04:06.below that interest rates will rise. In this way the City takes good
:04:07. > :04:14.economic news, if it is too good in a very bad way. So when might rates
:04:15. > :04:18.rise? In August Mark Carney didn't expect unemployment to get to 7% for
:04:19. > :04:23.three years. Now the Bank of England forecast it is as likely as not to
:04:24. > :04:27.hit 7% just a year from now. That's rattled the financial markets which
:04:28. > :04:32.used to ignore unemployment numbers. Now they worry an early rate rise
:04:33. > :04:36.will cause investors to sell bond, hitting the value of hundreds of
:04:37. > :04:40.billions of investments. Who wants a Government bond paying tiny interest
:04:41. > :04:44.rates when rates are about to go up. Bonds have been very strong for 15
:04:45. > :04:47.years now, really on the back of having low interest rates for such a
:04:48. > :04:53.long time. And that can come under pressure. The likelihood of an
:04:54. > :04:59.earlier rate rise boosted the pound, but should make imports cheaper but
:05:00. > :05:04.exports more expensive for foreign customers, the markets are we aried
:05:05. > :05:10.about the recovery and share prices took a tumble. With 7,000 jobs
:05:11. > :05:15.created in three months, the economy is heating up quickly. With the Bank
:05:16. > :05:18.of England giving evens on a rate rise it is likely to be a year
:05:19. > :05:23.before the general election. Not that it will bother Mark.
:05:24. > :05:27.Here now is our guest, an external member of the Bank of England's
:05:28. > :05:31.Monetary Policy Committee, and Gillian Tett from the Financial
:05:32. > :05:36.Times. This is good news isn't it? It is pretty good news actually.
:05:37. > :05:40.Tempered by some not quite so good news. We didn't really expect this
:05:41. > :05:44.big fall in unemployment. That is good, but wages are the bad story.
:05:45. > :05:51.You think it is pretty good news? I think it is good news, it does take
:05:52. > :05:55.a chirpy north American to telling us all that the glass is half full
:05:56. > :05:59.not half empty. We Brits are used to the half empty. It is certainly
:06:00. > :06:03.encouraging. Is it sustainable, that is the big question? That is indeed
:06:04. > :06:07.the big question for two reasons, firstly, the question everybody
:06:08. > :06:14.should be asking is this increase in jobs and wealth actually leading to
:06:15. > :06:17.a broad-base feel-food factor or is it concentrated in small niches of
:06:18. > :06:22.the economy. Places like London are booming, if you get outside London
:06:23. > :06:25.it is a different picture. Secondly, unfortunately the bank is in a trap
:06:26. > :06:29.that it has indicated that interest rates may be going up much faster
:06:30. > :06:33.than people expect? I was going to come to that in a second or two, do
:06:34. > :06:37.you think it is sustainable? No I don't, if you think of the
:06:38. > :06:41.components of growth. Nice for you to be cheerful? I will tell you the
:06:42. > :06:44.truth. Components of growth are you need investment rising, that is not
:06:45. > :06:49.happening, trade rising, that is not happening. Real wages aren't rising,
:06:50. > :06:52.they are falling, and the only way we are getting consumers to spend is
:06:53. > :06:56.by taking their savings, because they think house prices are going to
:06:57. > :06:59.boom. So we have gone out of boom and bust, and we have come to a new
:07:00. > :07:03.situation where we have a boom coming which eventually will end in
:07:04. > :07:07.a bust. So the answer it is not sustainable. Especially if interest
:07:08. > :07:10.rates were to rise. Let's engage with Gillian's point that she was
:07:11. > :07:16.beginning to make there, which is what Mark Carney has said about
:07:17. > :07:20.interest rates? I'm not as gloomy as David. But I do think the question
:07:21. > :07:25.of interest rates is critical. We are starting to see house prices
:07:26. > :07:29.rising fast, it is striking this is coming not after sharp house price
:07:30. > :07:31.falls. In America you are seeing a rebound in housing prices but there
:07:32. > :07:36.has been a very sharp downturn first. So the question of whether it
:07:37. > :07:41.is sustainable in the housing market is a big one. Unfortunately the UK
:07:42. > :07:45.is much more exposed to swings of interest rates in terms of mortgage
:07:46. > :07:49.payments than other countries. So if interest rates do go up sooner than
:07:50. > :07:55.people expect the impact could really be pretty nasty. He has boxed
:07:56. > :07:58.himself in hasn't he? Both the Chancellor and the Governor of the
:07:59. > :08:02.Bank of England are boxed in. We start from a position in the housing
:08:03. > :08:07.market where house price-to-earnings ratios are about five, where at many
:08:08. > :08:11.places in the past that is the peak where the thing bursts, this doesn't
:08:12. > :08:15.look sustainable. Our problem is everybody has variable rate
:08:16. > :08:18.mortgages. I came off the plane yesterday and there was an advert
:08:19. > :08:23.saying you can get a mortgage rate base rate plus one. 49%, you take
:08:24. > :08:26.the mortgage and the bank starts to raise rates, that kills house prices
:08:27. > :08:30.people can't afford to pay their mortgages and that boom we have just
:08:31. > :08:33.seen is not sustainable. The problem is that if, despite the fact that
:08:34. > :08:38.people say interest rates are going to rise, if they rise they wipe out
:08:39. > :08:41.so many people. Listeners to this programme could suddenly think what
:08:42. > :08:46.would happen to my mortgage if interest rates went from a half per
:08:47. > :08:50.cent to two to four. The problem the bank has unless we get sustained
:08:51. > :08:53.growth they can't raise rates for a really long time. We should surely
:08:54. > :08:57.accept, and lots of people said George Osborne would never pull this
:08:58. > :09:00.sort of achievement off? I think that certainly George Osborne has
:09:01. > :09:03.some reason to feel not just relieved but also pretty pleased
:09:04. > :09:07.tonight. Whether you are going to argue whether that glass is half
:09:08. > :09:11.full or empty, it is much better or fuller than we expected a year or
:09:12. > :09:15.two ago. But unfortunately as David says the sustainability question is
:09:16. > :09:21.key. And very key given the timing of the next election. I hope that
:09:22. > :09:25.certainly this general rising in animal spirits starts to create more
:09:26. > :09:30.incentives to invest, as David says, and actually get a more sustainable
:09:31. > :09:33.pattern of growth, but it is still uncertain if we are going to see
:09:34. > :09:37.anything that will last and see interest rates go up in the future.
:09:38. > :09:42.Well, yes, in some sense we have had quite a fast lap. Unfortunately over
:09:43. > :09:45.the last three years the UK was lapped three or four times by all
:09:46. > :09:49.the other countries. So yes we have a small burst of growth, but
:09:50. > :09:53.actually the level of output that we have is about 3% lower than it
:09:54. > :09:58.should have been if we hadn't imposed this austerity. We start
:09:59. > :10:03.from a level of recession or output which is the worst recession in 100
:10:04. > :10:07.years, we still have to get two. 5% growth to get us back to the
:10:08. > :10:10.starting level of output, we are 66 months in, if you can compare it to
:10:11. > :10:14.the Great Depression. That was over in 48 months. So yes, we have a nice
:10:15. > :10:18.little burst of growth, but we should really understand that the
:10:19. > :10:21.economy is basically much lower than it should have been. What would you
:10:22. > :10:26.do if you were Mark Carney now? I think he has done pretty well. He
:10:27. > :10:29.has been probably quite lucky. He wasn't really going to be drawn on
:10:30. > :10:33.the question of when rates were going to rise. He's going to follow
:10:34. > :10:40.what the US has done and follow the data. He's not going to say to us on
:10:41. > :10:43.the #rd 3rd of January 3015 he will change rates. He will say we will
:10:44. > :10:46.watch how the economy is doing and then we will command to that. What
:10:47. > :10:50.we are hearing is people interpreting what he says. We need
:10:51. > :11:02.to watch the data, I suspect the data, this little blip may continue
:11:03. > :11:06.for a while, in the end it doesn't look sustainable. One thing he has
:11:07. > :11:10.created is this obsession with the unemployment rate. Nothing is
:11:11. > :11:16.bulletproof, there are always big questions around labour market data,
:11:17. > :11:21.but by folk cutsing so heavily on it is -- focussing so heavily on it is
:11:22. > :11:26.he has indicated that the bank cares about the pat RN of growth and has a
:11:27. > :11:29.conscious. But boxing yourself into one set of numbers means creating
:11:30. > :11:33.this trap you are in today. If unemployment falls faster than
:11:34. > :11:38.people expect, for reasons other than fundamental growth, shifts in
:11:39. > :11:42.the labour market data and the hours people are working, the bank finds
:11:43. > :11:45.itself in a position where people expect it to raise interest rates
:11:46. > :11:52.faster than it wants to. You must come back on another morale-lowering
:11:53. > :11:57.visit! The The British people have given ?13
:11:58. > :12:00.million in under 24 hours to help the victims of the storm in the
:12:01. > :12:04.Philippines. Some aid is beginning to reach survivors, those delivering
:12:05. > :12:10.it have been astonished by the extent and severity of the damage
:12:11. > :12:15.caused by the storm. The former Foreign Secretary and nearly leader
:12:16. > :12:19.of the Labour Party, David Miliband left mainstream politics here to run
:12:20. > :12:24.the International Rescue committee in New York. He was in London today
:12:25. > :12:29.dealing with the violence against women occurring during humanitarian
:12:30. > :12:34.crisis. I went to talk to him about that and talk about Sri Lanka,
:12:35. > :12:39.despite its human rights record a visit.
:12:40. > :12:44.David Miliband why is the tragedy in the Philippines any business of
:12:45. > :12:49.ours? Our common ity is stirred when you see people in desperate
:12:50. > :12:55.circumstances. Obviously the first response is for the Government of
:12:56. > :12:58.the pill even if, but for the British and western charitable
:12:59. > :13:02.response down the agencies has been born of common humanity. That is my
:13:03. > :13:06.interest. The difference with previous ages is we can see it now.
:13:07. > :13:16.Don't you think there is an argument now that says we have to learn to
:13:17. > :13:21.harden our hearts because "acts of God" are happening? I think that a
:13:22. > :13:25.hardening of heart is a miserable life. The essence of being a human
:13:26. > :13:28.being is helping other human beings not that you stand and walk away. I
:13:29. > :13:32.think there is a real issue in the world today. If you like it is a
:13:33. > :13:36.sort of double pull that is going on. One pull is parts of the world
:13:37. > :13:39.that are either undergoverned or suffering from lack of prop
:13:40. > :13:43.governance. Not really thinking about the Philippines in that
:13:44. > :13:50.circumstances, but in Syria, Somalia and elsewhere. It is problems that
:13:51. > :13:54.seem unbelievably complex and insoluable, and on the other hand a
:13:55. > :13:57.western world turning in on itself. That is a dangerous combination,
:13:58. > :14:01.allied to a hardening of heart the world will become more unstable and
:14:02. > :14:08.unequal. What is dangerous about it? About what? This insularity that is
:14:09. > :14:12.taking place in the west and the growth of inEPT or incompetent or
:14:13. > :14:17.absent governance? Precisely because we are a more connected world, there
:14:18. > :14:21.is an instrumental and moral argument there. The polio outbreak
:14:22. > :14:26.in Syria at the moment is not going to be confined within the governance
:14:27. > :14:30.of Syria that it started in. You are here to take part in a conference on
:14:31. > :14:34.proEKT itting girls -- protecting girls and women, a lot of people
:14:35. > :14:43.will be surprised that such a conference is necessary in the
:14:44. > :14:47.context of a Clamity that has taken place? I have learned this in my new
:14:48. > :14:50.job, there are enDEMic violence against women in all societies. It
:14:51. > :14:55.turns out there is a plague of violence against women in Emergency
:14:56. > :14:59.Situations. Both those worn of conflict and Civil War but also
:15:00. > :15:06.natural disaster, the evidence from Haiti, the Pakistani floods. From a
:15:07. > :15:10.range of experience that we have, the Sierra Leone conflict, places
:15:11. > :15:16.where the International Rescue committee has worked in. It has
:15:17. > :15:25.booed two or three times in emergencies. A natural calamity can
:15:26. > :15:31.unleash forces of bash BOURism latent in human society. What can an
:15:32. > :15:36.aid agency do to restrain that? Let me give you a practical example,
:15:37. > :15:41.women having torches so when they go to the toilet they are able to have
:15:42. > :15:46.light around them, that is important. When our experience both
:15:47. > :15:50.in refugee camps and outside them is those kinds of practical measures
:15:51. > :15:55.that give a bit of power to women, can make a difference. It is also
:15:56. > :16:00.extraordinary, even after a terrible act of sexual violence or other kind
:16:01. > :16:07.of violence, being able to address the trauma that women have suffered
:16:08. > :16:10.means that they might not be pregnant or becoming HIV-positive,
:16:11. > :16:14.but also they can rebuild their lives. Both on the prevention and
:16:15. > :16:18.treatment side. There is no easy answer, but you say what business is
:16:19. > :16:21.it of aid agencies, the business is it is 52% of the population, they
:16:22. > :16:26.are extra exposed in emergencies and we can make a difference. But you
:16:27. > :16:30.have your work cut out there haven't you? The feeling when you see people
:16:31. > :16:34.dying in the Philippines or going hungry or suffering in Syria or
:16:35. > :16:39.wherever it is in the world, there is a natural fellow feeling, it is
:16:40. > :16:44.there but for the grace of good go I. Very few people can imagine
:16:45. > :16:49.perpetrating sexual violence in those circumstances? It is really
:16:50. > :16:52.hard to come to terms with the fact that protecting people from sexual
:16:53. > :16:56.violence is not a luxury in an emergency, it is a necessity. But
:16:57. > :17:01.what we have learned over the years it is. The first priority in the
:17:02. > :17:04.Philippines now is undoubtedly about water and sanitation and other
:17:05. > :17:08.diseases. But immediately, at the same time, we know that there is an
:17:09. > :17:16.increase threat of violence against women. To neglect that and to turn
:17:17. > :17:20.our minds of eyes away from it, it would be wrong. If you were Prime
:17:21. > :17:23.Minister or Foreign Secretary would you be going to the Commonwealth
:17:24. > :17:29.conference in Sri Lanka? It is really hard for me, I have spoken up
:17:30. > :17:35.very powerfully on this. I'm in a difficult position, and let me
:17:36. > :17:40.explain it to you. We work with not just Governments around the world.
:17:41. > :17:43.We have an office in STLI lank KA. -- Sri Lanka, we are trying to make
:17:44. > :17:50.a difference across communal lines there. I do have very strong views
:17:51. > :17:53.about the Sri Lanka issue. With the current position and the duty of
:17:54. > :17:57.care I have to my own staff I have to be extremely careful about
:17:58. > :18:03.becoming a commentator on political affairs. If people keep taking that
:18:04. > :18:07.line and cop out, as it were, these Governments are immune? I think it
:18:08. > :18:11.is a really powerful point that in the end the humanitarian world can
:18:12. > :18:15.staunch the dying, but it takes politics to stop the killing. And
:18:16. > :18:21.that's what we face in Syria, that is what we face in civil wars around
:18:22. > :18:26.the world, and that is the fact of life. That is why politics remains,
:18:27. > :18:31.has primacy in a lot of these societies. Equally the humanitarian
:18:32. > :18:35.sector has shown how it can innovate and lead politics in various ways.
:18:36. > :18:39.What you see in the Middle East at the moment is the humanitarian
:18:40. > :18:42.catastrophe is actually affecting politics. The politics in Lebanon,
:18:43. > :18:46.where one in four of the population is now a refugee, the politics in
:18:47. > :18:52.Jordan where it is the equivalent of the whole of Poland moving to
:18:53. > :18:56.America the refugee flow into Jordan. That is humanitarian need
:18:57. > :19:02.changing local politic. It is another reason why we in the west
:19:03. > :19:08.should be engaged. With one bound he was free! As we are on politics and
:19:09. > :19:11.you still clearly have political instincts, let me ask you about the
:19:12. > :19:17.Falkirk by-election inquiry? I can't get into the Falkirk by-election
:19:18. > :19:21.inquiry Jeremy. You can't blame me for trying? I applaud you for
:19:22. > :19:26.trying, I will tweet out you tried, as long as you tweet he resisted
:19:27. > :19:33.temptation and didn't get into it. Why is it obvious you can't talk
:19:34. > :19:37.about it? Because I'm the leader of a global NGO, not a member of
:19:38. > :19:40.parliament, I'm a member of the Labour Party but one in a position
:19:41. > :19:49.where I have to foreswear any comment on. That There was once a
:19:50. > :19:56.New York cartoon showing a dog sitting up at a computer keyboard
:19:57. > :20:00.and remarking smugly that no-one on the Internet knows you are a dog. It
:20:01. > :20:06.seems nobody knows anything much, if you want to buy drugs, guns, fake
:20:07. > :20:14.currency even a HITman you can do so, you just Need to know where to
:20:15. > :20:19.go on the called dark net, covering your tracks. We have obtained a data
:20:20. > :20:36.leak showing how fast the dark net is going. G. The FBI left us in no
:20:37. > :20:42.doubt, shutting down the Silk Road was a big catch for the big guys. It
:20:43. > :20:52.had allowed people to sell and buy almost all legal couldn't TRA band,
:20:53. > :20:58.drugs and weapons - couldn't -- contraband, cloaked in the anonymity
:20:59. > :21:02.of the Internet. As one dark net site gets illuminated and shut down,
:21:03. > :21:08.others take its place, through a data leak, Newsnight has had a rare
:21:09. > :21:12.glimpse of one of these operations and the speed at which it is
:21:13. > :21:16.growing. There is such a customer demand for these types of sites,
:21:17. > :21:20.taking one or a couple down will only mean that other sites of the
:21:21. > :21:30.same kind are going to reassure very quickly. You can probably best think
:21:31. > :21:33.of the dark web as a sort of rather dingey basement underneath the
:21:34. > :21:40.familiar internet that we all know. Up there is google and Amazon and
:21:41. > :21:46.Spotify and the BBC. Down here it is a rather murky anonymous world. Only
:21:47. > :21:51.accessible through something called the Tor browser. Tor stands for the
:21:52. > :21:57.The Onion Router, because the anonymity of users is safeguarded by
:21:58. > :22:02.layers and layers of re-routing, like an onion peeling back the
:22:03. > :22:06.layers ends in tears. It is used by anyone who would rather they didn't
:22:07. > :22:12.identify themselves, from political activists to drug dealers. Messages
:22:13. > :22:18.sent between buyers and sellers are automatically encrypted, and
:22:19. > :22:22.customers are made with Bitcoin, an untraceable virtual currency.
:22:23. > :22:28.Because neither side will run out to the police if they get ripped off,
:22:29. > :22:34.the whole market place runs on establishing trustworthiness. And as
:22:35. > :22:39.for users like Paul, not his real name, the advantages are clear. I
:22:40. > :22:44.bought LSD and MDMA, ecstacy, essentially. Why would this be a
:22:45. > :22:49.better way or more attractive for you than buying face-to-face? What
:22:50. > :22:58.attracted me was the availability of certain drugs which I can't get from
:22:59. > :23:01.street dealers. Certainly knowing if I went to buy the drugs I would get
:23:02. > :23:05.what I paid for. It is off the street, you have no idea what you
:23:06. > :23:11.are going to be buying. One of the sites to pick up activity from the
:23:12. > :23:14.Silk Road is called Black Market Reloaded, we got hold of its user
:23:15. > :23:19.database for from a month ago. It those over 330,000 individual
:23:20. > :23:24.accounts, growing at 2,000 every day, set to hit the million mark by
:23:25. > :23:32.May next year. This is just one of over a dozen dark net market places.
:23:33. > :23:40.Those websites attract quite a lot of interest from customer, basically
:23:41. > :23:44.because they provide a place to conduct the illegal activities in
:23:45. > :23:50.the physical world. If you purchase drugs you won't really want to have
:23:51. > :23:54.an interaction with a drug dealer. So those websites take the physical
:23:55. > :23:59.interactions out of the equation. You click a few buttons on-line and
:24:00. > :24:05.you get your illicit drugs shipped in the mail to you. That is actually
:24:06. > :24:11.a very appealing proposition for a lot of customers. The vast majority
:24:12. > :24:16.of these hundreds of thousands of buyers and sellers seem completely
:24:17. > :24:20.untraceable. However, dark net analysts have managed to link a tiny
:24:21. > :24:29.number of black market reloaded accounts with real world identities.
:24:30. > :24:32.This is what the raw database looks like, once it has been knocked into
:24:33. > :24:36.shape by data analysts at the BBC, it now looks like a spread sheet.
:24:37. > :24:40.This reveals e-mail addresses that in a very few days have also been
:24:41. > :24:45.used on social media sites. The first step to establishing a real
:24:46. > :24:48.identity. There is a fisherman in California selling around a million
:24:49. > :24:55.dollars worth of marijuana on the site each year. There is a man in St
:24:56. > :25:00.Helen's who sold us three sets of credit card details that he says he
:25:01. > :25:05.got through phishing scam, he also offered counterfeit currency. A man
:25:06. > :25:09.in Norway claimed to provide links to provide access to child
:25:10. > :25:13.pornography websites. It is human mistakes that led us to these
:25:14. > :25:18.identities which are often the only way in for the police. The way that
:25:19. > :25:24.law enforcement have potential ins is to masquerade as legitimate users
:25:25. > :25:31.and to try to get various tools installed unbe knowns to the hosting
:25:32. > :25:36.provider on to the server. By using those tools they can compromise and
:25:37. > :25:40.find their way to the hosting provider and IP addresses. That is
:25:41. > :25:46.pretty much what a hacker would try to do who was trying to take down a
:25:47. > :25:51.big corporate website? It is that in reverse. As we have seen such
:25:52. > :25:55.victories can be short lived, the triumph in which the FBI announced
:25:56. > :26:00.the closure of Silk Road hasn't lasted long, in the past week it
:26:01. > :26:04.went back on-line, mocking the police and showing a thousand drugs
:26:05. > :26:12.listing. It seems until the demand disappears, neither will these
:26:13. > :26:16.sites. Dave Kennedy is CEO of Trusted Sec, an information security
:26:17. > :26:20.company and computer hacker himself. This is a race between law
:26:21. > :26:24.enforcement and the underworld who is winning? The expansiveness of the
:26:25. > :26:27.dark net and how they transfer information back and forth, it is
:26:28. > :26:32.hard for law enforcement to catch up on. If you look how Silk Road was
:26:33. > :26:37.taken down, it emboldened the dark net side of the house to expand
:26:38. > :26:41.larger, they caught him on his public life not on what was
:26:42. > :26:45.encrypted and secure. It is hard for law enforcement to track the folks
:26:46. > :26:49.and get hold of their on-line identities TRAK it back to the
:26:50. > :26:53.original person. Silk Road attracted a certain amount of attention, but
:26:54. > :26:57.according to the piece there it was only a small part of the market?
:26:58. > :27:00.That's right, it pales in comparison to what is actually happening behind
:27:01. > :27:04.there. This is a whole new underground market for actually
:27:05. > :27:10.transferring anything you want. Credit card data, personal
:27:11. > :27:14.identifiable identification, explosions, drugs. These are
:27:15. > :27:19.different areas you can sell in NOOKs and cranies on the Internet
:27:20. > :27:24.separate from everything else. This isn't a scare story, you could go
:27:25. > :27:28.on-line and buy drugs or explosions or guns or whatever it is? You can
:27:29. > :27:32.buy drugs, explosives are difficult to come by, but you can find them
:27:33. > :27:36.and buy them. These are things sold in the United States. Things that
:27:37. > :27:41.are being sold all across the world. It is not a scare tactic at all, it
:27:42. > :27:45.is relatively available, you don't have to worry about our identity.
:27:46. > :27:49.The whole purpose of the designed infrastructure is to keep your
:27:50. > :27:56.identity safe. Does it follow from that we should automatically
:27:57. > :28:01.distrust DMIN who down-- anybody who downloads Tor? No, Tor is all about
:28:02. > :28:05.privacy and privacy concerns and what your identity is on-line and
:28:06. > :28:09.who can track it. Looking at recent actions with the NSA and what they
:28:10. > :28:13.are able to do. There is a lot of private concerns in the security
:28:14. > :28:17.industry about what type of information Governments have access
:28:18. > :28:22.to, as long as on-line hackers. Tor was bred out of the privacy forum
:28:23. > :28:27.and for good purposes, it can be used by the bad guys as well. What
:28:28. > :28:33.is the way forward? I think there needs to be a blend, the Tor
:28:34. > :28:36.application is very good for privacy and protecting information. At the
:28:37. > :28:40.same time if you look at how law enforcement is able to do it. They
:28:41. > :28:44.used zero day attacks, the things that haven't been discovered to
:28:45. > :28:47.trace people on Tor. It is very hard for them to see what is going on
:28:48. > :28:51.inside these areas. It will be really hard for them to move
:28:52. > :28:55.forward. There has to be a ni blend between privacy and the ability to
:28:56. > :28:58.get the bad guys that are doing these types of things on the
:28:59. > :29:03.Internet. Can you see an obvious way of doing it? Right now, no. The way
:29:04. > :29:07.technology is progressing and how it is progressing, there is a big
:29:08. > :29:12.emphasis on encryption and security. That will sky rocket more with the
:29:13. > :29:16.NSA allegations and everything else. Everybody is paranoid, which means
:29:17. > :29:21.technology will expand in the next five years into something crazy we
:29:22. > :29:27.can't look at. That will be challenging for law enforcement and
:29:28. > :29:31.there is no good answer now. Now, the fond hopes of western
:29:32. > :29:37.Governments that the dictatorship in Syria might be replaced by rebels
:29:38. > :29:40.seeking a form of democracy look increasingly forlorn. Islamic
:29:41. > :29:46.fundamentalists seem to be taking a more and more prominent role in the
:29:47. > :29:50.Civil War. An organisation calling itself the Islamic state in Iraq and
:29:51. > :29:55.the Levant, an Al-Qaeda affiliate now controls the important city of
:29:56. > :29:59.Raqqa in Syria. A place of perhaps one million people, to whom they
:30:00. > :30:02.brought their own species of religious tyranny. Refugees have
:30:03. > :30:12.been telling our reporter about what it is like to live under. She has
:30:13. > :30:17.reached the relative safety of Turkey but daren't talk openly. A
:30:18. > :30:22.young Syrian activist, who fled not from the guns and the Assad regime,
:30:23. > :30:30.but a new alien force. All lack Akbar. -- Allah hu Akbar. The
:30:31. > :30:35.Islamic state of Iraq and Syria is a branch of Al-Qaeda has taking over
:30:36. > :30:40.ever more of northern rebel held Syria. This is the story of how she
:30:41. > :30:46.and other Syrians from her home city have been terrorised by the Jihadis,
:30:47. > :30:52.after they thought they were liberated. TRANSLATION: Seven or
:30:53. > :30:57.eight men with explosive belts surrounded my sister, some said
:30:58. > :31:00.knife her or shoot her. She tore down her banner that said Christians
:31:01. > :31:06.and Muslims are one, and told her she was an infidel. TRAN They are
:31:07. > :31:13.the new dictators, like Bashar Al-Assad, but dressed in black. Only
:31:14. > :31:17.the colour has changed. TRANSLATION: They bring children, and order them
:31:18. > :31:31.to chant their slogans to say down with freedom, we want a KAL fate.
:31:32. > :31:35.The Islamic state celebrated its takeover of Raqqa, exactly six
:31:36. > :31:47.months ago. Celebrated by rounding people up to watch an execution. The
:31:48. > :31:55.victims they said weren't Muslims. TRANSLATION: They didn't say their
:31:56. > :32:02.names, just that they were Alawite, they fired in the air shouting "good
:32:03. > :32:08.is greatest". An ambulance came for the bodies and they told the driver
:32:09. > :32:14.to dump them on the rubbish tip but he insisted they were buried
:32:15. > :32:18.properly. Raqqa, the population of a million, including disgraced people,
:32:19. > :32:35.may be the largest city in the world ever fully controlled by Al-Qaeda.
:32:36. > :32:39.Give me an example of how they made you behave differently and do what
:32:40. > :32:42.you didn't want to do? TRANSLATION: I was walking down the street when
:32:43. > :32:48.two masked men gave me a paper saying I must wear Islamic dress, no
:32:49. > :32:54.make-up or high heels, otherwise they would take me to the
:32:55. > :32:58.headquarters and beat me severely. TRANSLATION: They banned the sale of
:32:59. > :33:02.alcohol, they tried to close cafes where boys and girls sit together,
:33:03. > :33:08.they banned street cinema, theatre, bright colours. The men who imposed
:33:09. > :33:12.the regin of terror include Jihadis from North Africa, Saudi Arabia and
:33:13. > :33:21.Europe. Seen here training in northern Syria. The forces are
:33:22. > :33:27.thought to include as many as 100 00 Britons. I'm here to help raise the
:33:28. > :33:32.Jihad flag. The United States your time will come, we will bleed you to
:33:33. > :33:35.death and raise the flag in the White House. With aims far wider
:33:36. > :33:42.than Syria they have discredited the revolution in the eyes of the world
:33:43. > :33:48.and split rebel forces. And that's produced another wave of refugees
:33:49. > :33:52.trying to keep warm in a makeshift camp on the Turkish side of the
:33:53. > :33:57.border. These have arrived in the last month from the nearby town,
:33:58. > :34:03.where Jihadis have taken control. 12-year-old Mohammed can no longer
:34:04. > :34:08.go to school. He's desperate to keep up his English. TRANSLATION: We had
:34:09. > :34:11.to leave Damascus because Bashar Al-Assad destroyed our homes, we
:34:12. > :34:17.moved to thevilleage, but the village was destroyed. We came here
:34:18. > :34:22.to be safe. Just a few miles beyond the fence they cling to is a swathe
:34:23. > :34:26.of Jihadi-controlled territory, it is getting wider by the day. Syrians
:34:27. > :34:30.who have been under attack from their own Government for the last
:34:31. > :34:34.two years are now bewildered and horrified to find they have a
:34:35. > :34:38.second, equally ruthless enemy, they are being squeezed, sometimes
:34:39. > :34:44.literally squeezed to death, between two forces, Jihadis and the regime,
:34:45. > :34:47.who should be at opposite extremes, but who seem sometimes now to be
:34:48. > :34:51.working in one another owes interests.
:34:52. > :34:56.-- one another's interests. When the fighters attacked one of Raqqa's
:34:57. > :35:00.main churches and made it their headquarters, they confirmed
:35:01. > :35:04.Al-Assad's position that the revolution would turn sectarian.
:35:05. > :35:12.TRANSLATION: Two carloads of armed fighters went on to the roof of the
:35:13. > :35:16.church. They broke the bell with hammers and one of the crosses they
:35:17. > :35:24.threw down into the street. They tried to break it but it was iron
:35:25. > :35:28.and they threw down a crucifix too. The crucifix was seized by children.
:35:29. > :35:37.But the cross was taken up by demonstrators chanting "shame,
:35:38. > :35:41.shame" . Outside the headquarters they shouted that Muslims and
:35:42. > :35:46.Christians would fight together for freedom. But now many of those
:35:47. > :35:52.protestors and other social activists have been arrested or
:35:53. > :35:56.forced to flee. TRANSLATION: They beat me with a rifle and with their
:35:57. > :36:04.hands when they arrested me. They threw a wheel on my back so I
:36:05. > :36:10.couldn't move. When I was arrested my mother came to the headquarters
:36:11. > :36:14.and shouted at them, "you are like bats, when did you come to Syria,
:36:15. > :36:20.where were you when our children stood defenceless against Assad's
:36:21. > :36:26.bullets". Back on the border, refugees who have now escaped
:36:27. > :36:30.Assad's blitz and bombs conDM him, but -- condemn him, but they are
:36:31. > :36:35.mostly too scared to say anything against the Jihadis. The new enemy
:36:36. > :36:40.that has jumped into the chaos of Syria, may now take even longer than
:36:41. > :36:46.the regime to dislodge. Six weeks today it will be Christmas Day. So
:36:47. > :36:50.there are a mere 42 days left in which to experience the glut of
:36:51. > :36:53.advertising trying to persuade us that the only way to celebrate this
:36:54. > :36:57.event is to spend a lot of money. The retailers need to get us into
:36:58. > :37:01.the shops, apart from anything else, to recoup some of the fortune they
:37:02. > :37:13.have spent on Christmas advertising campaign, in the last year or so we
:37:14. > :37:18.have been exposed less to jingles and that but almost an arms race. We
:37:19. > :37:30.will discuss whether it has success. First we have this. Tis the season
:37:31. > :37:40.of amu mentality and nostalgia, and adverts that don't mention what they
:37:41. > :37:44.are selling. That is far too boring. For these aren't really adverts at
:37:45. > :37:53.all, apparently they are movies and the companies that make them take
:37:54. > :37:57.them very seriously. Tesco even take you on set. What we're looking at is
:37:58. > :38:02.something which is like a little slice of history. Nothing does
:38:03. > :38:06.memory better than cinema. Tesco hope this ad will tell the real
:38:07. > :38:11.story of Christmas, by following a pretend family through six decades.
:38:12. > :38:17.So you met in the 1960s and we just got matter YOED and spent our first
:38:18. > :38:23.Christm together. Spending on Christmas ads has increased
:38:24. > :38:27.dramatically in recent years. Last Christmas supermarkets spent 23%
:38:28. > :38:32.more on TV and press advertising than the year before. Tesco shelled
:38:33. > :38:38.out the most ?8. Four million. Its sales went up by 5.6%. Sainsbury's
:38:39. > :38:47.bill was ?5.7 million, their sales rose five. 1%. But Morrisons forked
:38:48. > :38:55.out ?5. Five million and only had a 1.7 rise. Waitrose got a bang for
:38:56. > :39:01.their buck, a mere ?2. Two million, translating into a nine. 3% increase
:39:02. > :39:05.in sales. Earlier this evening Sainsbury's showed this Christmas
:39:06. > :39:09.advert for the first time. It is a trailer for a documentary about
:39:10. > :39:16.Christmas Day by the acclaimed director Devon McDonald. -- Kevin
:39:17. > :39:22.McDonald. Christmas lunch is not a difficult meal to prepare. It is
:39:23. > :39:26.made up of home videos gimp to the director by more than 100 families.
:39:27. > :39:29.When we first saw the film that Kevin put together we thought it was
:39:30. > :39:34.something pretty special, we asked ourselves a question how would you
:39:35. > :39:38.launch a film, the idea is to do a preview or trailer, we thought about
:39:39. > :39:40.using that perfect analogy, we thought our customers would love
:39:41. > :39:45.seeing the full three-and-a-half minutes before moving down into
:39:46. > :39:50.shorter formats. I think some people might be really struck even by the
:39:51. > :39:55.language here, this is a film. You are selling Christmas cake, why are
:39:56. > :39:59.you referring to it as a film, it is an ad? At Christmas time people want
:40:00. > :40:03.to be entertained and engaged. Perhaps sometimes in marketing we
:40:04. > :40:07.shout a bit too much at people about prices and promotions. It is
:40:08. > :40:13.definitely a bit of a softer sell. Sainsbury's bought up the entire
:40:14. > :40:18.ad-break during tonight's Coronation Street to show it. TV isn't all they
:40:19. > :40:38.care about. Social media is at the core of their strategy. Sainsbury's
:40:39. > :40:43.will be reading -- since breeze will be reading twitter and seeing what
:40:44. > :40:52.the response will be, things have changed.
:40:53. > :40:57.It is not clear whether all this advertTANment is working, will it
:40:58. > :41:01.persuade you to walk through their doors?
:41:02. > :41:12.With us now is Neil Christie managing director of the advertising
:41:13. > :41:17.film and firm who made the advert and Isabelle Szmigin. They make it
:41:18. > :41:21.sound as if they are doing a big style patronage of the arts. But
:41:22. > :41:25.presumably these are hard commercial judgments? This is a very important
:41:26. > :41:30.time for retail. But also for customers. Will they get their money
:41:31. > :41:34.back? The one who is do a good job, will do, absolutely. What is your
:41:35. > :41:44.view of these ads? I think we are going through a phase where there is
:41:45. > :41:49.a particular kind of ad going on, going back to family values. It is a
:41:50. > :41:52.very competitive market, some do well and some don't. We have to bear
:41:53. > :41:58.that in mind, these companies are competing for the share of the
:41:59. > :42:03.consumers' Christmas pound. They are not selling products? Not in these
:42:04. > :42:06.ads, but this is just part of their overall campaign going up to
:42:07. > :42:09.Christmas, there will be a whole load of other things, like your
:42:10. > :42:15.report said, the social media is going on, there will be price
:42:16. > :42:21.discounts in the stores. It is an amalgamation of ways to interact
:42:22. > :42:25.with the consumers. It is a slightly old fashioned model, built around
:42:26. > :42:28.the idea of the family sitting around the television, watching it
:42:29. > :42:32.collectively, sharing in the narrative, as opposed to some kind
:42:33. > :42:35.of viral campaign? Television is still a very effective way of
:42:36. > :42:38.reaching a large number of people quickly. Television isn't the only
:42:39. > :42:43.channel these retailers are using, they are using social media and
:42:44. > :42:46.in-store, they are using on-line. These ways television is a great way
:42:47. > :42:50.of starting the conversation, and that can continue. What is the
:42:51. > :42:54.conversation about? It is about Christmas. People look forward to
:42:55. > :42:59.Christmas. It is a lot of home videos? You are tapping into memory
:43:00. > :43:03.which is an incredibly powerful thing. What is that to do with going
:43:04. > :43:06.shopping? What that does is part of the preparation for all the stuff
:43:07. > :43:10.you need. To have the Christmas you are looking forward to. I think your
:43:11. > :43:13.cynicism is appropriate in many ways, what you have to do is at the
:43:14. > :43:17.end of the day these companies have got to sell product and some of the
:43:18. > :43:21.stories, people are going to like, but once you have seen the story,
:43:22. > :43:25.and it comes up on the TV again and again, can you get a little bit
:43:26. > :43:29.bored with it, and probably what you are thinking about, as you get up to
:43:30. > :43:33.Christmas is how much money have I got and how much will I spend. How
:43:34. > :43:38.many more times do I have to watch this? Exactly. We know consumers
:43:39. > :43:43.attention span is quite tight. So if you have got an ad that is a minute
:43:44. > :43:47.long, that can be problematic, I think the Sainsbury's one, they are
:43:48. > :43:50.talking about a long one to start off with, then coming up with
:43:51. > :43:54.smaller clips and so on. I think you have to be very careful about losing
:43:55. > :44:02.your consumers' attention. I think it can. We have other things to do
:44:03. > :44:06.as well as watch the ads. That is why so much time and effort goes
:44:07. > :44:10.into making them engages and entertaining and as emotionally
:44:11. > :44:15.moving as they can be. When you know the story at the end that the bear
:44:16. > :44:21.has been woken up or the girl has her red shoe, the next time is it as
:44:22. > :44:25.good. There is a level of craft and story telling that goes into them
:44:26. > :44:32.that repays. How many times do you go to see a movie in a cinema? A
:44:33. > :44:38.movie is 90 minutes long not a few seconds. You sit through the ads
:44:39. > :44:42.repeatedly? Yes. And people do it. You have to be paid? People
:44:43. > :44:46.genuinely enjoy these things and look forward to them. They look
:44:47. > :44:49.forward to them? It is part of the celebration of Christmas, it is like
:44:50. > :44:53.switching the lights on and putting up the decoration, they genuinely
:44:54. > :44:57.love it. You have to bear in mind at the end of the day that people have
:44:58. > :45:00.got to remember what is the brand they are watching. One of the things
:45:01. > :45:05.I would be concerned about with some of them is, was that John Lewis or
:45:06. > :45:11.was it Marks Spencers or whatever? Do we care? You know some of us care
:45:12. > :45:16.more than others, but I think that the entertainment factor is
:45:17. > :45:20.interesting. Why shouldn't ads be entertaining, there is nothing wrong
:45:21. > :45:24.with that. What I'm concerned with is when you get so many ads like
:45:25. > :45:29.this you can't cut through the clutter, they all become similar.
:45:30. > :45:33.This is a vogue, it will pass and something else will come along?
:45:34. > :45:38.There is definitely a trend over the last few years of more and more
:45:39. > :45:41.being invested both financially and emotionally around these campaigns
:45:42. > :45:45.at Christmas. It becomes a little bit like the Superbowl in America,
:45:46. > :45:49.it becomes the place to be because there is so much at stake, and if
:45:50. > :45:53.you are not in the game your people aren't aware you are out there and
:45:54. > :45:56.you are not competing. So I think at the moment there is definitely a
:45:57. > :45:59.feeling that for the big retailers, if you are not there in the
:46:00. > :46:02.Christmas market you are really not competing and you will lose out.
:46:03. > :46:07.Thank you very much indeed. Tomorrow morning's front pages now, the FT
:46:08. > :46:11.goes with the news of the improvement in the economy: le
:46:12. > :46:46.If you are the sort of of person who loves to cuddle up with a political
:46:47. > :46:53.speech. The Conservative Party has deleted speeches David Cameron made
:46:54. > :46:57.before he came to power. We have some left, so we leave you with a
:46:58. > :47:02.reminder of those more innocent times.