:03:31. > :03:39.15% of the increase is due to green levies that David Cameron has been
:03:40. > :03:47.talking about. The other 25% is explained by higher energy costs. It
:03:48. > :03:52.would be a whole lot easier if it was all about excess profits. The
:03:53. > :03:58.average profit per bill has risen from 5% to a healthy, but not
:03:59. > :04:05.exorbitant, 6.7%. Real profit margins may be higher than those
:04:06. > :04:10.figures suggest. Generally speaking, profits have averaged around 5%.
:04:11. > :04:18.That is only the retail profit margin. There are also production
:04:19. > :04:24.profits on wholesale energy. Those are around 20, 20 5%. Are you
:04:25. > :04:34.looking for ways to save money? That seems like an argument for greater
:04:35. > :04:42.competition. The big six still controlled 98% of the market. The
:04:43. > :04:49.regulation we have is not driving competition. People assume those
:04:50. > :04:56.companies do not deserve the profits or it indicates the market is not
:04:57. > :05:00.working for consumers. It is like Blackpool illuminations here. That
:05:01. > :05:04.also helps to explain why a recent poll found two thirds of us support
:05:05. > :05:09.something that would have been unthinkable to most people a few
:05:10. > :05:15.years ago - renationalisation of the energy industry. It's just the
:05:16. > :05:23.public wants radical thinking by politicians. From two political
:05:24. > :05:29.leaders on both sides of the divide, we have had claims of green
:05:30. > :05:34.credentials. There has been populist policy-making. What does a modern
:05:35. > :05:38.energy system looks like and one which will provide jobs, warm homes
:05:39. > :05:44.and a secure energy policy and an environmentally friendly energy
:05:45. > :05:50.policy for Britain? That is not what they are doing. There is another
:05:51. > :05:55.energy crisis looming. This bike powers this giant snow globe. The
:05:56. > :06:00.National Grid has said this winter, electricity supplies will be at its
:06:01. > :06:07.tightest for six years. Its cushion spare generating capacity is down to
:06:08. > :06:14.5%. In the winter of 2011/2012, it was 15%. That margin is getting even
:06:15. > :06:25.tighter. If the are not careful, we will be debating why the lights are
:06:26. > :06:35.going out. Joss is the deputy political director of Greenpeace.
:06:36. > :06:42.Prices are up. Very little capacity of energy supply and no investment.
:06:43. > :06:45.It is a disaster, isn't it? On the day the government is cutting
:06:46. > :06:50.installation schemes, the one thing that can instantly consumers from
:06:51. > :06:53.the gas price hike Justin was talking about, the overwhelming
:06:54. > :06:58.reason the bills have gone up is because of gas price hikes. The
:06:59. > :07:04.scheme that is being cut will take hundreds of pounds of peoples bills
:07:05. > :07:08.by insulating them from international markets. Doesn't no
:07:09. > :07:15.need to be something radical like a Big Bang to break up the big six and
:07:16. > :07:21.do something different? We can do something different by rewinding the
:07:22. > :07:23.clock ten years or so and going back to a highly liberalised energy
:07:24. > :07:29.market which is very efficient and reducing prices for consumers and
:07:30. > :07:34.producing some of the cheapest energy in the developed world. Let
:07:35. > :07:39.me just interact. To go back to that liberal agenda, would that actually
:07:40. > :07:45.make sure you are cutting carbon emissions efficiently? Let's accept
:07:46. > :07:49.the argument that you do want to cut carbon emissions. If you want to cut
:07:50. > :07:53.carbon emissions, the best way to do it is to tax carbon emissions or
:07:54. > :07:57.have some kind of cap on carbon emissions and have an emissions
:07:58. > :08:01.trading scheme and allow people to find the best and cheapest way,
:08:02. > :08:05.whether it be consumers or producers of energy, to reduce the carbon
:08:06. > :08:13.intensity of electricity production. It might be in selecting homes,
:08:14. > :08:20.switching off the lights, buying fuel through renewable sources. Is
:08:21. > :08:25.that enough? If you look across to Germany, about 90% of all new
:08:26. > :08:29.generating capacity is owned by families, churches, local
:08:30. > :08:39.authorities. Where is the big innovation? Where is the investment?
:08:40. > :08:45.It is not just because it is small scale. It is not small scale at all.
:08:46. > :08:50.We are talking about half of Germany 's electricity being generated. The
:08:51. > :08:55.power is owned by the people and people have a stake in it.
:08:56. > :09:01.Stabilising prices because gas prices are driving up costs. When
:09:02. > :09:04.you look at the scale of costs, for example, in other European
:09:05. > :09:10.countries, we do not fair that badly. What is going on? We do not
:09:11. > :09:16.trust the energy companies as an industry to do the best for us. Why
:09:17. > :09:24.is that? To a large degree, it is a government failure. The government
:09:25. > :09:25.has tried to intervene in the production of electricity by
:09:26. > :09:27.determining how electricity companies should generate
:09:28. > :09:31.electricity through renewable obligations. They have two have
:09:32. > :09:39.offshore wind farms where electricity production production is
:09:40. > :09:44.3.5 times more expensive. It will allow companies to do this in the
:09:45. > :09:49.cheapest way. Regulators have started to interfere in the retail
:09:50. > :09:53.market. In 2008, the regulators stopped energy companies going into
:09:54. > :09:56.other areas and offering lower prices than they provided to their
:09:57. > :10:04.existing customers. They regarded them as predatory pricing will stop
:10:05. > :10:10.switching has fallen by 50%. We are in a cartel, aren't we? Energy
:10:11. > :10:14.companies have a complete monopoly. We have a crazy situation where the
:10:15. > :10:18.Prime Minister is so afraid of taking them on that he is not
:10:19. > :10:23.prepared to tell them and lay down some rules. Instead, what we have
:10:24. > :10:27.our levies that will insulates consumers and reduce pollution.
:10:28. > :10:33.These popular measures are being cut because he is afraid of taking on
:10:34. > :10:38.the energy companies. Do you think people want to do renationalisation
:10:39. > :10:42.people philosophically believe in nationalised industries or do they
:10:43. > :10:47.think the energy industry is a load of profiteers? I think they do feel
:10:48. > :10:51.they are getting a bad deal. Six energy companies is properly for
:10:52. > :11:00.more companies than another of supermarkets that can be visited.
:11:01. > :11:07.There is a wider issue. One problem is the regulator. If there is going
:11:08. > :11:12.to be a competition enquiry, the government and the regulator itself
:11:13. > :11:17.is part of the problem. Just talk about market failure. Was trying to
:11:18. > :11:22.think of the company you might trust in society. Who do we trust? Quite a
:11:23. > :11:26.lot of people trust John Lewis. Is it because we do not trust the
:11:27. > :11:31.energy suppliers because of the way they treat customers, hike the bills
:11:32. > :11:36.without telling you, because of the dreadful bone nines and they are
:11:37. > :11:40.unresponsive? If we had energy delivered by someone like the John
:11:41. > :11:44.Lewis partnership, would that take it did -- with that make it
:11:45. > :11:48.different is? There are small companies that people have not heard
:11:49. > :11:54.of which are greener than the big six but they are also cheaper than
:11:55. > :11:59.the big six. I use a small company and it is green and they invest in
:12:00. > :12:03.clean energy. They are very small. It is because of the broken nature
:12:04. > :12:07.of our market that those companies are really struggling because the
:12:08. > :12:11.big six have the stranglehold. I think we need to open up the market
:12:12. > :12:18.to these new companies but also local authorities and cities. Why do
:12:19. > :12:23.you think politicians do not feel they can take on the energy
:12:24. > :12:28.industry? You are assuming the energy industry needs to be taken
:12:29. > :12:30.on. I am not uncomfortable at all with the competition commission
:12:31. > :12:34.enquiry into the industry. They might find the regulator and the
:12:35. > :12:37.government is a large part of the problem. We have often had
:12:38. > :12:41.difficulties when we try to redesign industries. With the railways, we
:12:42. > :12:45.tried to redesign it to create, edition and we made it more
:12:46. > :13:00.expensive. You cannot leave this market as it is. Thank you both very
:13:01. > :13:09.much. We have robbed human life of its existential value. The savage
:13:10. > :13:15.killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby, whose death was played out in footage
:13:16. > :13:21.taken by a mobile in May, was a shocking act of violence. The trial
:13:22. > :13:28.of the two began at the Old Bailey. Graphic CCTV footage was played out
:13:29. > :13:31.in court. What happened? The jury of eight women and four men were
:13:32. > :13:38.hearing from the prosecution who was setting out their case. The case was
:13:39. > :13:45.that the two men carried out a savage attack on Fusilier really --
:13:46. > :13:54.Fusilier Lee Rigby on May 22 of this year. We can see circled in red, Lee
:13:55. > :14:01.would be walking down the street. He is about to cross the road. A couple
:14:02. > :14:07.of cars pass. This was shown to the court today. We see that he is about
:14:08. > :14:13.to cross the road. He starts to cross here. A car is approaching
:14:14. > :14:18.from behind. It accelerates and the video stops. The court was told that
:14:19. > :14:21.the car hits Lee Rigby. He was carried on to the bonnet, the
:14:22. > :14:27.windscreen until the car hit a road sign.
:14:28. > :14:31.The jury were told that the drivers of the car got out. He started
:14:32. > :14:37.attacking Lee Rigby with a meat cleaver. The jury were told that it
:14:38. > :14:40.was a horrific and frenzied attack, and the driver of the car was using
:14:41. > :14:44.considerable force with the meat cleaver. The prosecution say the, as
:14:45. > :14:48.were like a butcher attacking a joint of meat. Witnesses reported
:14:49. > :14:52.that Lee Rigby was unconscious at the time.
:14:53. > :14:57.The court heard that the attackers said that this was an eye for an eye
:14:58. > :15:01.in retaliation from Britain's war against what they said was a war
:15:02. > :15:03.against Muslims. Both men, however, deny the charge of murder against
:15:04. > :15:09.them. Richard, thank you very much indeed.
:15:10. > :15:13.Tonight, around 20,000 Ukrainians have turned out in Kiev's
:15:14. > :15:17.Independence Square, scene of the Orange Revolution almost a decade
:15:18. > :15:23.ago. Tonight, they're protesting against their president's
:15:24. > :15:28.spectacular U-turn, turning his back on a planned deal with EU in favour
:15:29. > :15:31.of Russia. After Victor Yanukovych's sudden and controversial
:15:32. > :15:36.announcement, which many believe is triggered by pressure from Vladimir
:15:37. > :15:41.Putin, the country's jailed former Prime Minister, Yulia Tymoshenko,
:15:42. > :15:46.went on hunger strike. Now she has been refused access to her lawyer.
:15:47. > :15:53.With temperatures plummeting, pro-tempt settle in for a hard night
:15:54. > :15:56.in Kiev's independence square. Their message to their president,
:15:57. > :16:04.Victor Yanukovych, our future is with Europe, and you must go.
:16:05. > :16:11.Their hopes were dealt a new blow today when Mr Yanukovych turned his
:16:12. > :16:16.back on a deal to the Ukraine to move closer to the EU. EU leaders
:16:17. > :16:22.accuse Russia of pressuring him into the change. We may not give in to
:16:23. > :16:27.external pressure, not the least from Russia.
:16:28. > :16:30.The deal also dashed the hopes of jailed former Prime Minister Yulia
:16:31. > :16:35.Tymoshenko, imprisoned for abuse of power. She was to be released as
:16:36. > :16:40.part of the EU deal. She is now on hunger strike until the deal is
:16:41. > :16:46.signed. No-one knows when or if that will happen. A little earlier this
:16:47. > :16:52.evening, I spoke to her daughter in Independence Square in Kiev.
:16:53. > :16:59.Your mother has apparently been refused the opportunity to see her
:17:00. > :17:02.lawyer today. What reason was given? When the penitentiary system doesn't
:17:03. > :17:07.let a lawyer in to see her, they don't give a reason, they just break
:17:08. > :17:10.the law. Today, there was no legal reason given not to see her, and we
:17:11. > :17:13.of course are worried for her because she's on her fifth day of
:17:14. > :17:15.hunger strike, and we're not sure what her state of health is right
:17:16. > :17:22.now. When did you last see her? I saw her
:17:23. > :17:25.on her birthday, actually, on 27 November, just before the the
:17:26. > :17:29.villainous summit, and we were able to see her also after a lot of
:17:30. > :17:33.fights with penitentiary system. Do you think there's a chance that she
:17:34. > :17:37.is being force-fed already? We're not sure, becau we haven't seen her
:17:38. > :17:41.yet. You know, at the moment, after the failure of the signature, we see
:17:42. > :17:47.the new wave of repressions towards her, towards us, the defence team,
:17:48. > :17:52.and we are not sure how far they can go in aggression against her.
:17:53. > :17:57.When you spoke to your mother, when you saw her, do you think that she
:17:58. > :18:00.is resolute about this hunger strike? Did you discuss how far she
:18:01. > :18:05.is prepared to go, if she is prepared to go to death? She is
:18:06. > :18:09.already made very difficult decisions for the sake of the
:18:10. > :18:14.signature, and the final of the way that what she can do physically, or
:18:15. > :18:17.being in isolation now, is to protest in this way. From the one
:18:18. > :18:21.hand, I understand her, that that is her way of showing her position, how
:18:22. > :18:24.strong she feels about signing the agreement and its failure, but, on
:18:25. > :18:30.the other hand, I am very worried about her health. Ukraine is in a
:18:31. > :18:35.hard place. If President Putin puts pressure on over trade and jobs,
:18:36. > :18:43.what is Ukraine to do? Well, first of all, the reasons that Yanukovych
:18:44. > :18:47.gave of losses of a cessation agreement are really false reasons,
:18:48. > :18:52.they're just a facade covering his real intention not to sign
:18:53. > :18:56.agreement, not to fulfil European criteria, and my mother in her
:18:57. > :19:00.appeal stated that if Yanukovych doesn't sign today, and he didn't,
:19:01. > :19:05.that he will never sign it as a president of Ukraine. The new hope
:19:06. > :19:10.is for the new democratic forces and that a president that can win 2015
:19:11. > :19:13.elections. Under the EU deal, she would have been able to leave for
:19:14. > :19:18.Germany to have back surgery, and she made an open letter today to the
:19:19. > :19:22.president to waive that part of the deal.
:19:23. > :19:26.Was that a hard thing for her to do? Of course, it is been very hard
:19:27. > :19:31.thing to do for her because in the beginning, from the start, and she
:19:32. > :19:34.is continuing to fight, and we all with her, for her political
:19:35. > :19:39.rehabilitation, the whole world now acknowledges that she is really
:19:40. > :19:42.political prisoner, that her trial was politically motivated, she is
:19:43. > :19:46.really an innocent person, so, of course, it was a hard decision for
:19:47. > :19:53.her. Does the Orange Revolution seem a very long way away now? She
:19:54. > :19:58.mentioned in her appeal at the square on Sunday, 24 November, that
:19:59. > :20:04.Yanukovych, like nine years ago, after falsifying election, rose up
:20:05. > :20:09.Orange Revolution. Now we see the same upheaval of people after his
:20:10. > :20:13.denial to the Ukraine people of hopes for re-integration. Do you
:20:14. > :20:17.feel that had the EU been clearer about the financial support it was
:20:18. > :20:22.going to give Ukraine, then this would not have happened? Do you feel
:20:23. > :20:27.let down by the EU? Well, I am sure, and I know that the EU - the
:20:28. > :20:34.European leaders were very clear, and also US leaders about their
:20:35. > :20:38.support for the IMF funding, and other monetary help and support for
:20:39. > :20:44.Ukraine, but what the European Union is proposing is much more than just
:20:45. > :20:52.monetary help, it is political civilisation change for Ukraine,
:20:53. > :20:55.whilst other agents of pressure for Ukraine or - offer a short-term
:20:56. > :20:59.bailout which would mean we would, Yanukovych would have to trade away
:21:00. > :21:02.Ukraine's independence bit by bit, and that is what these people are
:21:03. > :21:07.against. There is no sense there of any betrayal by the EU for not
:21:08. > :21:15.coming up with more support and help? I think that the European
:21:16. > :21:19.leaders have done in this last five years since their movement towards a
:21:20. > :21:24.cessation agreement, since this has started, they have done everything
:21:25. > :21:29.they could, plus they proposed humanitarian and, well, rescue for
:21:30. > :21:32.my mother's illegal situation illegal incarceration, and we're
:21:33. > :21:42.very thankful to them for this support. Thank you very much indeed.
:21:43. > :21:49.The Chapman Brothers, Jake and Dinos, were the most provocative
:21:50. > :21:53.pair of of or lumped together under the banner Young British Artists in
:21:54. > :21:58.the early 1990s making a splash with Disasters of War. Then, charms
:21:59. > :22:02.Saatchi was a patron. After the last 20 years, their endeavours have
:22:03. > :22:08.interrogated ways of seeing the world, questioning ideas of
:22:09. > :22:14.mortality, evil, and consumer I did, often -- consumerism, often with
:22:15. > :22:16.tinges of humour. I went to see it, and met Jake, and there was some
:22:17. > :22:32.strong language. In here, is this the most complete
:22:33. > :22:37.world of Jake and Dinos there is It is a fragment of our world. This is
:22:38. > :22:45.a two per cent. You're perfecting hell and a world that is getting
:22:46. > :22:47.more hellish. We have Ronald, and we have Hamburglal, these different
:22:48. > :22:50.characters, so some of the characters have started to change.
:22:51. > :22:54.The script is pretty much set in terms of the actors, in terms of the
:22:55. > :22:59.mewants, and the skeletons, and the Nazis, because, in our eyes, the
:23:00. > :23:02.Nazis are absolute evil, and no-one else really deserves to be in hell.
:23:03. > :23:09.So you go back to the Nazis all the time? They are just kind of like a
:23:10. > :23:13.generic euphemism for utter evil. And in a sense, what we are
:23:14. > :23:17.interested in is how impoverished that is as a proposition, the idea
:23:18. > :23:22.suggesting that if you make a work of art supposed to be horrific and
:23:23. > :23:26.horrible you use Nazis, whereas if you make something funny, you use
:23:27. > :23:29.smiley face. You've introduced this idea when the first thing you see is
:23:30. > :23:34.the hilarity of the vision, and then you look at it, and it becomes
:23:35. > :23:41.darker? Yes, I mean, I think isn't pathos something to do with
:23:42. > :23:45.relationship between pain and time? There's something funny, there is
:23:46. > :23:49.something, we learn from other people's pain, and we have - our
:23:50. > :23:54.concept of compassion, empathy, is based upon the notion that we
:23:55. > :23:58.identify with someone else's pain of easier than we can with our own, or
:23:59. > :24:03.at least we prefer it. Another recurring theme is taking mainly
:24:04. > :24:07.children, changes in genitalia, mewants, and so forth, and
:24:08. > :24:11.sensation, all those years ago, it was locked in a room, now it's not.
:24:12. > :24:15.Things changed? In a sense, you know, the point about this is this
:24:16. > :24:19.begs the question, what is you mutation? What is adaptation? If
:24:20. > :24:23.this thing is the only thing in the world that looks like this, then
:24:24. > :24:26.this thing is an ideal version of itself. It is not a mutation or it's
:24:27. > :24:34.not an abysmal version of something that's not a perversion. So in a
:24:35. > :24:37.sense, this is a model of self-adaptation rather than it is a
:24:38. > :24:43.model of mutation. The world that we live in now, as opposed to when
:24:44. > :24:45.Sensation came out, is a highly sexualised world for children.
:24:46. > :24:49.Someone will look at this and say it is a girl because it's got long
:24:50. > :24:52.hair. It is fantastic how then it goes back to the idea, if you want
:24:53. > :24:57.to make a happy painting, what do you do? Make a smiley face. If you
:24:58. > :25:01.want to make something evil, you use Nazis. I guess we're interested in
:25:02. > :25:08.how these generic terms are loaded, but also amazingly superficial. This
:25:09. > :25:15.is laugh out loud, right? Yes, this is locking with nature. Did you sit
:25:16. > :25:20.and come up with it? The animals are great? I think, yes, it is to
:25:21. > :25:25.describe the kind of Genesis of a particular idea from the mass of
:25:26. > :25:31.crap that we talk about incessantly all day and every day. These things
:25:32. > :25:36.emerge from the morass of dialogue, actually. When viewers come to your
:25:37. > :25:40.exhibition, there is a state of moral panic induced because they're
:25:41. > :25:44.not sure what to think. The point about it is to actually present the
:25:45. > :25:48.idea that there are real obvious codes being presented, the notion of
:25:49. > :25:52.what a child looks like, the notion of adult genitalia, these things put
:25:53. > :25:55.into a thing which don't seem to deserve each other. Then your
:25:56. > :25:59.problem is your tendency as a moralising subject or an - is to try
:26:00. > :26:02.and form something which is coherent, and it is to try and
:26:03. > :26:06.stabilise the instability of the work. Has the internet kind of
:26:07. > :26:12.stolen a bit of your thunder? Yes, because it is bigger!
:26:13. > :26:17.Even in the Chapman Brothers - Yes, almost. In ego maybe. ! Then you've
:26:18. > :26:23.got the clan in hippy slippers. Yes. But the clan again, is the -
:26:24. > :26:27.Somewhere probably, in Devon someone is knitting these things because
:26:28. > :26:31.they have had such a like a hit on the internet, like we want 60 pairs.
:26:32. > :26:35.They think there is a new rise in hippies. The idea of taking 19th
:26:36. > :26:42.century portraits and we doing the faces, why do you like doing these
:26:43. > :26:46.ones? Because there is something very cruel about tampering with what
:26:47. > :26:55.is a relic of someone's bid for immortality. Here is this kind of
:26:56. > :27:06.bourgeois wealthy patron who has paid to had his - then, to add
:27:07. > :27:13.insult to injury, we get it, and we inject the entropy he is avoiding. ,
:27:14. > :27:21.the reason we decided to make these things in bronze is because bronze
:27:22. > :27:25.is by its very nature glacial, it is hard. You're talking about something
:27:26. > :27:29.which implies kin nettic movement, seems to imply motion that's been
:27:30. > :27:34.petrified in the instant of its production, so it has no chance of
:27:35. > :27:37.doing what it does. We like the idea of bronze because that's third place
:27:38. > :27:41.in a race. Now we have some breaking news
:27:42. > :27:48.tonight: a helicopter has reportedly crashed into a pub in Glasgow.
:27:49. > :27:50.Located along the river Clyde. The shadow development secretary has
:27:51. > :27:53.told the BBC that he was informed about the crash by the local fire
:27:54. > :27:56.brigade, and that he had been told there were multiple casualties. He
:27:57. > :28:01.said it's not clear how many people are injured, he said a lot. He
:28:02. > :28:04.described a pile of people clambering out of the wreckage and
:28:05. > :28:08.if you follow on the news channel, there will be more news on that as
:28:09. > :28:14.it comes in. We finished with tomorrow's morning front pages:
:28:15. > :28:17.energy bills are to be cut by ?50. Prices could be cut as early as
:28:18. > :28:25.tomorrow, as Osborne prepares to announce a cut in green levies. The
:28:26. > :28:31.Guardian, the very private murder, the killing of Private Lee Rigby.
:28:32. > :28:35.Can you afford the mortgage? Turning the times there, I did it for God,
:28:36. > :28:40.said the killer and question mark, in quotation marks of Lee Rigby,
:28:41. > :28:45.that's what he told the medics, then on the right hand side, the
:28:46. > :28:50.wonderful smile of Joshua Cater who became the poster boys of aid
:28:51. > :28:55.efforts. Yesterday he raised a smile when he was told he was world
:28:56. > :29:00.famous. The daily Mirror, their headline,
:29:01. > :29:04.unspeakable, the moment drummer Lee Rigby is moan down. Unbearable, his
:29:05. > :29:10.mum and widow flee the court in tears as the jury is shown CCTV.
:29:11. > :29:14.Then on the eye on Saturday go, again, a cowardly and callous murder
:29:15. > :29:19.as the trial opens into the barbarous killing of drummer Lee
:29:20. > :29:25.Rigby. Just to remind you, any more news that the BBC can bring you on
:29:26. > :29:28.the story of the helicopter crash in Glasgow, we will be over on the news
:29:29. > :29:32.channel all night. We've already heard from one of the local MPs that
:29:33. > :29:35.there are a number of casualties, and there is a substantial amount of
:29:36. > :29:39.wreckage. The BBC will have as much as they can bring you as quickly as
:29:40. > :29:42.possible. From Newsnight tonight, that's all
:29:43. > :29:46.for tonight. Have a very good night.