:00:09. > :00:13.Protest, punch-ups and now the Government of Ukraine says
:00:14. > :00:19.demonstrators are trying to stage a coup. What has happened to a
:00:20. > :00:27.campaign which began as an attempt to embrace European democracy. I met
:00:28. > :00:36.someone and they make me feel so happy, so safe and everything just
:00:37. > :00:42.feels great. A British sporting hero comes out on YouTube. Why do so many
:00:43. > :00:46.sports stars choose to stay in the closet.
:00:47. > :00:50.Have smartphones turned us all into idiots. We talk to Randi Zuckerberg
:00:51. > :00:59.about the state of being together alone, or alone together.
:01:00. > :01:06.Before all that, yet another problem tonight for the Royal Bank of
:01:07. > :01:10.Scotland. This evening it became the bank that likes to say... Sorry we
:01:11. > :01:14.cannot process your transaction. As if it wasn't enough to have played
:01:15. > :01:17.such a role in bankrupting the country and just a week or so to
:01:18. > :01:22.have been accused of running businesses into the ground. Tonight,
:01:23. > :01:26.part of its IT system went into meltdown on what is said to be the
:01:27. > :01:31.busiest internet shopping day of the year, great numbers of customers
:01:32. > :01:39.were unable to use their cards. Our own Andrew Verity is here, along
:01:40. > :01:43.with Paul Lewis, presenter of Radio 4's MoneyBox. What happened? Around
:01:44. > :01:47.of 6. 30 you had reports of transactions being declined. Just at
:01:48. > :01:50.the time when people are looking to buy groceries after work. Then you
:01:51. > :01:55.had a report of a supermarket in Kent where NatWest cards had been
:01:56. > :01:58.declined en masse. Was it an isolated example, have a look at
:01:59. > :02:01.Twitter it turned out not. There were hundreds and hundreds of
:02:02. > :02:05.examples coming in from Twitter of people who had transactions
:02:06. > :02:11.declined. To give you a flavour of those, "there goes my plan to get
:02:12. > :02:14.Christmas shopping bargains tonight, daughter stuck in Leeds with no
:02:15. > :02:21.money for the bus, thanks NatWest your system failure means I can't
:02:22. > :02:25.pay for it". To avoid confusion, NatWest belongs to Lloyd's? We
:02:26. > :02:29.bailed them both out after the crisis yes. The customers of NatWest
:02:30. > :02:35.reporting great difficulties all over. This happened between 6. 30
:02:36. > :02:40.and 9. 30 and 10.00. It was affecting on-line banking and debit
:02:41. > :02:45.transactions, on-line banking came up about 10.00, and it looked like
:02:46. > :02:50.debit card transactions are back. The chaoses causing, one tweet today
:02:51. > :02:55.my colleague Paul. My autistic son is stressed as card not working in
:02:56. > :03:01.shops or machines, doing my best to help him by phones. You are the
:03:02. > :03:09.Messiah in these circumstances if people start tweeting your account
:03:10. > :03:13.for grumbles. How bad is this? In 18 months in June last year they had a
:03:14. > :03:17.real problem where systems went out for a week in the case of RBS
:03:18. > :03:21.customer, slightly for more NatWest. For Ulster Bank, part of the same
:03:22. > :03:25.group, they were without any access to their bank accounts for a month.
:03:26. > :03:28.And that often meant that their employer couldn't pay them because
:03:29. > :03:34.they couldn't get the money into the bank. It was an absolutely major
:03:35. > :03:38.catastrophe then. What I have been told by RBS tonight is they will
:03:39. > :03:43.compensate people for any losses, if your car is stuck at the carriage
:03:44. > :03:48.full of petrol and you can't pay for it. I have had several tweets along
:03:49. > :03:53.those lines, how do you get home, taxi and hope somebody at home has
:03:54. > :03:57.the money. They will reimburse the expenses. Even last time with the
:03:58. > :04:01.really big problems they had, they didn't pay compensation. There was
:04:02. > :04:04.another minor event that lasted a few hours in March this year. People
:04:05. > :04:08.with that banking group have really suffered from these IT problems.
:04:09. > :04:13.This is not banking group that is in robust good health, is it? Well, no,
:04:14. > :04:20.in many ways it is not. Though I did notice the other day they were
:04:21. > :04:23.discussing making ?500 million worth of bonus payments, whether that will
:04:24. > :04:27.happen we will have to see. Last year Ulster Bank directors didn't
:04:28. > :04:31.take their bonus, I don't know if you recall that. We spent a lot of
:04:32. > :04:36.money bailing Ulster Bank out too. It is part of the same group, they
:04:37. > :04:39.didn't take their bonuses but RBS and NatWest did. There are all sorts
:04:40. > :04:42.of allegations about small businesses and how one bit of the
:04:43. > :04:45.bank has tried to put them out of business so the other bank bit could
:04:46. > :04:50.take their property over. Completely denied, of course. And of course the
:04:51. > :04:54.mis-selling of payment protection insurance, not unique to RBS but
:04:55. > :05:00.affecting a lot of people too. It is the human side too, people
:05:01. > :05:06.humiliated at restaurants and turned down for their cards. A lot of
:05:07. > :05:12.embarrassing dates and early nights! There was an almost plainive tone to
:05:13. > :05:17.the President of Ukraine today as he appealed to citizens to calm down
:05:18. > :05:20.and not protesting about his Government. The fact that much of
:05:21. > :05:23.his Government couldn't function because of the protest had something
:05:24. > :05:26.to do it. The anger is triggered because he seemed to have decided
:05:27. > :05:30.that the country lies less in a closer relationship with the
:05:31. > :05:38.European Union, than keeping sweet with President Putin. The Russian's
:05:39. > :05:42.ideal leader is a ventriloquist's dummy of course. There are now calls
:05:43. > :05:48.for a general strike to bring down the Government. In the battle for
:05:49. > :05:57.Ukraine, protest is becoming increasingly violent, and the stakes
:05:58. > :06:00.undoubtedly are being raised. What started with demos about the
:06:01. > :06:05.President's rejection of partnership agreement with the EU is turning
:06:06. > :06:11.into a struggle about power and how it is wielded. The police made a
:06:12. > :06:16.mistake when they dispersed the crowd. Lots of people who previously
:06:17. > :06:19.did not support European integration, or were not ready to go
:06:20. > :06:25.on to the streets to show their views, if they supported the
:06:26. > :06:30.European integration, felt angry on Saturday and on Sunday and today, of
:06:31. > :06:35.course, and more and more people have gone out into the streets and
:06:36. > :06:39.some people are becoming very anxious about it. This has become a
:06:40. > :06:47.conflict about Ukraine's true colours. Most Ukrainians say they
:06:48. > :06:53.feel European, but last month pedestrianian put closer ties to
:06:54. > :06:56.Russia ahead of the EU deal. It is a curious mismatch that when the
:06:57. > :07:00.Ukrainians were prepared for integration the rest of Europe was
:07:01. > :07:05.not, when the rest of Europe is offering that integration, the
:07:06. > :07:08.leadership in the Ukraine is incapable of accepting the offer. It
:07:09. > :07:13.is difficult to know what the population itself thinks. But
:07:14. > :07:17.clearly there is a feeling, certainly among intellectuals and
:07:18. > :07:23.almost any professional person in Ukraine that this is going back in
:07:24. > :07:27.history rather than going forward. Today the President, responding to
:07:28. > :07:34.four days of protest insisted they must be carried on peacefully. Other
:07:35. > :07:44.Government figures accuse ultras, professional agitators of hijacking
:07:45. > :07:51.them and trying to mount a coup. Tran People are told to capture all
:07:52. > :07:58.the administrative buildings. To block the functioning of an
:07:59. > :08:04.administrative institution, to put forward ultimatums and this is the
:08:05. > :08:10.way which will lead them nowhere. Now open revolt is spreading in the
:08:11. > :08:14.west of the country, it is traditionally pro-western half. A
:08:15. > :08:18.fragile economy is tottering. There is no-one size fits all easy win
:08:19. > :08:21.outcome here for either side, because I think the current
:08:22. > :08:26.President doesn't particularly want to give in to becoming a province of
:08:27. > :08:30.Russia. And I think the protesters must know there isn't an easy way to
:08:31. > :08:35.become part of the European Union space. The deal the European Union
:08:36. > :08:40.offered was full of, it was a real package of reforms aimed at helping
:08:41. > :08:44.Ukraine slowly but steadily move away from its current state. And
:08:45. > :08:47.some of those reforms will probably end up being adopted, even by the
:08:48. > :08:54.current Government f it stays in power as part of a deal. With
:08:55. > :08:59.opposition loaders uniting to try a no-confidence motion in parliament,
:09:00. > :09:02.President Putin accused them of turning the EU issue to their
:09:03. > :09:07.advantage, jockeying for a presidential election that is
:09:08. > :09:11.planned for three months time. TRANSLATION: In my opinion, all that
:09:12. > :09:15.is happening has no direct connection with the Ukraine-EU
:09:16. > :09:20.relationship, it is a domestic political process, an attempt by the
:09:21. > :09:23.opposition to shake the acting and legitimate, I would like to stress
:09:24. > :09:32.that, authorities. More than that what is happening now shows it is
:09:33. > :09:37.not at all a revolution but well planned actions. Ukraine opinion
:09:38. > :09:41.itself has been divided on the question of EU partnership, and
:09:42. > :09:44.pedestrianian was elected. But the harsher the measures -- the
:09:45. > :09:49.President was elected, but the harsher the measures taken the more
:09:50. > :09:54.he reminds the country of the old Soviet leaders and thus loses
:09:55. > :09:57.support to the opposition. For the past decade Ukraine has been pushed
:09:58. > :10:02.and pulled between east and west. The battle now taking place on
:10:03. > :10:07.Kiev's streets may decide the fate of Prime Minister and President, but
:10:08. > :10:13.that tension between its own people, as much as outsiders, will take far
:10:14. > :10:19.longer to resolve. Just before we came on air I spoke to the Russian
:10:20. > :10:24.activist and husband of one of the Pussy Riot members, I asked him how
:10:25. > :10:29.long these protests were going to continue. It is really hard to see
:10:30. > :10:34.right now since they have basically started for the first time a week
:10:35. > :10:39.ago, and at this scale they have been going on for the last three
:10:40. > :10:45.days and to the maximum point since Sunday, and I think everything will
:10:46. > :10:47.depend on the results of the negotiations between the opposition
:10:48. > :10:53.parliament members and the Government. Because for example for
:10:54. > :10:57.tomorrow morning it is a very important vote scheduled which will
:10:58. > :11:11.give the answer to the question, will the parliaments be able to make
:11:12. > :11:21.pedestrianian to pedestrianian resign. You know -- President
:11:22. > :11:25.Yanukovych resign. People are talking about this like a coup, is
:11:26. > :11:31.that what it looks like? It is not a coup for the Ukrainian people down
:11:32. > :11:36.here, to them it was simply an act of taking to the streets and trying
:11:37. > :11:39.to defend what they think is their rights to live in a civilised
:11:40. > :11:44.country, to be a part of the European community and this is what
:11:45. > :11:47.is what they do. This is democratically elected Government
:11:48. > :11:50.isn't it? At the same time these people really did not, when they
:11:51. > :11:55.elected President Yanukovych they did not sign to the fact that they
:11:56. > :11:58.will be basically dealing with the situation when President Yanukovych
:11:59. > :12:03.will be coming under the influence of President Putin. And making
:12:04. > :12:06.decisions that most Ukrainians definitely do not agree with. This
:12:07. > :12:10.is why there is so many people on the street. This is why the protests
:12:11. > :12:16.have reached a scale they have reached right now. But the protests
:12:17. > :12:20.seem to an outsider hardly to be politically coherent, there are
:12:21. > :12:26.extreme nationalists among the protesters aren't there? I wouldn't
:12:27. > :12:30.say the extreme nationalists were playing an important political role
:12:31. > :12:37.here. Obviously from a purely political side the protests are
:12:38. > :12:40.headed by three members of the three opposition factions inside the
:12:41. > :12:45.parliament and two of those members are not nationalists at all. You
:12:46. > :12:49.really think that President Yanukovych is going to resign, do
:12:50. > :12:54.you? It is hard to see what the Government will choose as their
:12:55. > :13:01.response to the protests right now. But definitely President Yanukovych
:13:02. > :13:05.and his Government will start making very important negotiation offers to
:13:06. > :14:45.the opposition right now, it is clear these protests
:14:46. > :14:53.a Greg Louganis won a medal in the Olympics and came out publicly in
:14:54. > :14:56.the mid-90s he joins us from San Francisco, what did you make of the
:14:57. > :15:01.announcement today? I think it is wonderful that Tom. I have observed
:15:02. > :15:05.him at various competitions and I had the luxury of seeing him at a
:15:06. > :15:10.lot of the competitions and the thing that impressed me most about
:15:11. > :15:15.Tom Daley, it is not so much how talented he is, he is Anne credibly
:15:16. > :15:25.talented diver, but the way in which he treated his friends and his fans
:15:26. > :15:29.and -- he is an incredibly talented diver, it was the way he treated his
:15:30. > :15:34.friends and fans, he always had a smile on his face. We all want to fe
:15:35. > :15:40.loved and safe, and those were the words in his message, I just really
:15:41. > :15:43.wish the best for him. Were you slightly envious of the times we
:15:44. > :15:53.live in now compared to the times when you came out? It is interesting
:15:54. > :15:57.when I look back at career and a lot of the homophobic comments that were
:15:58. > :16:01.made through my career, you know I have been back to a lot of those
:16:02. > :16:10.people, who have actually become friends. It was more jealousy than
:16:11. > :16:11.it was homophobia. Although there was some homophobia around there. We
:16:12. > :16:31.have come to age What strikes me is the honesty,
:16:32. > :16:35.that these young people feel, in order for them to be all that they
:16:36. > :16:41.can be, they have to be honest with themselves and they need to be
:16:42. > :16:52.honest with the public. It is striking, this is a top-level
:16:53. > :16:56.competitor in team sports it is much more unusual? In team sports it is a
:16:57. > :17:03.little different, because That is why it is a team sport. Unless you
:17:04. > :17:08.are a Michael Jordan, and you carry the team, you know, then it is
:17:09. > :17:14.pretty safe. You need to have the safety and security. That is the
:17:15. > :17:20.thing that Tom said, that he feels safe in a team situation, you have
:17:21. > :17:24.to have that support Of the rest of your team. I think that many players
:17:25. > :17:29.might find it very surprising that they actually might have that
:17:30. > :17:37.support, you know. If they were to Be a little bit more open about who
:17:38. > :17:43.they are. It is hard, it is hard to be the first one to be out there.
:17:44. > :17:49.You know we're inundated with these ideals and what's right and what's
:17:50. > :17:54.wrong and you know, I was born this way. I was born gay, I didn't choose
:17:55. > :18:01.to be gay. It is like me asking somebody who is straight, when did
:18:02. > :18:07.you choose to be straight? You may be a reticent fellow in this sort of
:18:08. > :18:12.matter, do you but have any advice for anyone who is gay and not yet
:18:13. > :18:20.out who is sports man or women? Each individual has their own personal
:18:21. > :18:23.journey, and that journey is you know you first start with people who
:18:24. > :18:33.you feel safe with, and that is actually usually your family and it
:18:34. > :18:39.opens the doors to those that are open and you see the acceptance and
:18:40. > :18:44.the appreciation of your honesty and how well respected that is, then you
:18:45. > :18:53.realise you know it gives you more confidence to come out to other
:18:54. > :18:56.people. Just to share who you are. People on daily basis, they are
:18:57. > :19:01.taking out pictures of their kids and their weddings and all that. You
:19:02. > :19:09.know what, it was just this year that I was able to legally marry my
:19:10. > :19:18.husband. In the state of California, you know. That privilege, that is
:19:19. > :19:23.denied to many people. It is marriage equality, you know, that
:19:24. > :19:34.love is love. It doesn't matter if it is gay or straight, you know. We
:19:35. > :19:40.just want to be loved and love. The Prime Minister and a hoard of 100
:19:41. > :19:43.capitist big wigs are in China tonight, enjoying the kind
:19:44. > :19:48.hospitality of the people's Republic. Arguments about human
:19:49. > :19:53.rights, the situation in Tibet and so on have been laid aside in much
:19:54. > :19:57.talk about jam tomorrow in a new commercial relationship between the
:19:58. > :20:12.two countries. Sasauges, bicycle, architect, museums all harked about
:20:13. > :20:17.in order to encourage trade. Last year Britain sent ?9 billion of
:20:18. > :20:21.goods to China and the Chinese sent ?30 billion to this country. Britain
:20:22. > :20:24.wants China to realise its dream and I believe we can help each other
:20:25. > :20:29.succeed in the global race. Some in Europe and elsewhere see the world
:20:30. > :20:34.changing and want to shut China off behind a bamboo curtain of trade
:20:35. > :20:39.barriers. Britain wants to tear those trade barriers down. This trip
:20:40. > :20:43.has been a while in the planning, after Beijing declared itself hurt
:20:44. > :20:51.that David Cameron had met the Dalai Lama last year. This time any
:20:52. > :20:56.protests were soto V oce. The full range of challenges should be in the
:20:57. > :20:59.full range of discussion, including our differences. We should approach
:21:00. > :21:02.with mutual respect and understanding, as we did today. I
:21:03. > :21:09.welcome the agreement to hold the next human rights dialogue early
:21:10. > :21:14.next year. Increasing exports to China is an important part of the
:21:15. > :21:19.Treasury strategy to high to rebuild the UK economy. The trade-off is
:21:20. > :21:24.between moral self-image and self-interest. This promised new
:21:25. > :21:28.relationship with China is based on an urge to get a share of the
:21:29. > :21:34.action. Humam rights activists worry that greed or ambition is elbowing
:21:35. > :21:41.out humanitarian concerns. But how much is China really changing. Our
:21:42. > :21:45.world affairs correspondent has been pondering the subject in some of his
:21:46. > :21:51.favourite haunts in Beijing. Tiananmen Square, the centre piece
:21:52. > :21:54.of modern Beijing. Old stagers like me can never forget the
:21:55. > :22:00.demonstrations here which ended in the massacre of 1989. But like China
:22:01. > :22:12.itself, the square has changed a lot over the years, it is far more
:22:13. > :22:18.people friendly now than it used to be. Over there are the Great Hall,
:22:19. > :22:24.where David Cameron has been having talks with leaders, the visit has
:22:25. > :22:28.been a great success, and unexpected honours has been showered on him.
:22:29. > :22:39.Why? Because China doesn't trust America to be a reliable partner
:22:40. > :22:45.sheet more in -- is parter in -- partner any more. And the British
:22:46. > :22:49.are more than happy to oblige. On the one hand China is closing labour
:22:50. > :22:53.camps and relaxing the one-child rule, on the other it is silencing
:22:54. > :23:02.and looking up its critics with renewed energy. Why? What's going on
:23:03. > :23:10.here? I have really come to love this area. It is called District
:23:11. > :23:13.798. It used to be an entire suburb composed of weapons factories. Then
:23:14. > :23:18.the Government closed it down and handed it over to, of all things,
:23:19. > :23:23.artists, to use as galleries and workshops. For me it is a parable of
:23:24. > :23:30.the way China could become in the future. When you are here, the old
:23:31. > :23:35.Chinese Marxist, Leninist state just seems to evaporate. Being here
:23:36. > :23:41.reminds me forcibly of the artists I used to hang out with in the old
:23:42. > :23:46.Eastern Bloc countries in the 1980s. Czechoslovakia, Hungary, east German
:23:47. > :23:52.and the Soviet Union. For them, the old communist system started to
:23:53. > :23:58.vanish long before the Berlin wall came down. But is the same process
:23:59. > :24:10.happening here? I'm not really sure yet. This is Lydia Jaing, a woman
:24:11. > :24:14.with a remarkable background. In the 1980s she was a worker in an arments
:24:15. > :24:20.factory. Much like this one was before being turned into an art
:24:21. > :24:34.gallery. Nowadays she's a well known social commentator. I used to think
:24:35. > :24:39.a year or so ago that he was the man who tried to open up the system but
:24:40. > :24:44.he couldn't keep control over it, but he's much tougher than that,
:24:45. > :24:48.isn't he? He's much tougher, I don't think many people will see him as
:24:49. > :24:52.China's Gorbachev. He mentioned Russia, I think he's haunted by the
:24:53. > :25:00.collapse of the Soviet Union. He wants to make sure, going out of his
:25:01. > :25:05.way to make sure it doesn't happen to China. How will it happen? I
:25:06. > :25:11.think the authorities will have to let people, the way people, allow
:25:12. > :25:17.people to express their grievances, to express their views, to have a
:25:18. > :25:23.say in how they are governed. Allow them space to shape the future.
:25:24. > :25:30.Otherwise I don't think possibly we can last with this model. Whenever I
:25:31. > :25:41.come to Beijing I like to visit this traditional street, and sample the
:25:42. > :25:52.street food which is on sale. Locusts, actually rather nice! There
:25:53. > :25:58.you go! I recommend them. So, what's really going on in the China that
:25:59. > :26:05.David Cameron has come to visit. My guess, for what it's worth, is that
:26:06. > :26:08.the leader is an instinctive liberaliser, who understands that
:26:09. > :26:12.you can't really open up business and manufacturing here,
:26:13. > :26:18.satisfactorily without giving people much more personal freedom. But, the
:26:19. > :26:22.Chinese leadership as a whole is still obsessed with what happened
:26:23. > :26:28.back in 1989, both at Tiananmen Square, and with the fall of
:26:29. > :26:33.communism in Eastern Europe. Hence the juggling act. There is more
:26:34. > :26:37.personal freedom here, certainly. But people aren't allowed to go as
:26:38. > :26:42.far as many of them would like, can it work? Certainly, but only for a
:26:43. > :26:46.while. The time will come when the old rules will have to be relaxed,
:26:47. > :26:56.and that will be the point of maximum danger for the old Marxist,
:26:57. > :27:00.Leninist system. Just sending an e-mail there, you surely can't be
:27:01. > :27:05.surprised, because this phenomenon of being physically present and
:27:06. > :27:08.mentally absent of virtual conversations rather than actual
:27:09. > :27:14.ones is all around us. Couples who go out for dinner and spend the meal
:27:15. > :27:18.talking to others. Teenagers at home part there part Facebooking. It is
:27:19. > :27:21.not just the rudeness and superficiality, it is that
:27:22. > :27:25.technology has broken down the distinction between public and
:27:26. > :27:28.private. The personal aside that is retweeted across the land, or the
:27:29. > :27:37.personal photo that some how anyone can see. We report. For millennia
:27:38. > :27:46.people have struggled with the question, what does it mean to be
:27:47. > :27:49.human? For the last few years we have been struggling with a
:27:50. > :27:53.variation on that question, what does it mean to be human with all
:27:54. > :27:58.this technology! It is unhealthy, because we have let boundaries go.
:27:59. > :28:03.We are now creatures of this thing that we have created without much
:28:04. > :28:07.control over it. I really do think it is important that we look at the
:28:08. > :28:13.social effects of technology a lot more, not just the glitz, glamour
:28:14. > :28:16.and bling of a new thing. The scene on any street in the modern world,
:28:17. > :28:22.so familiar as to be mundane, and yet to anyone from two decades ago,
:28:23. > :28:26.this would all seem utterly bizarre. How bizarre, look at these famous
:28:27. > :28:35.paintings, reimagined with modern technology, by the Korean artist,
:28:36. > :28:40.Kim DongYU. We have wandered into this world without any idea of how
:28:41. > :28:49.and when it is appropriate to use the technology. The Americans have a
:28:50. > :28:55.phrase FOMO, "fear of missing out". It is this idea that what I'm doing
:28:56. > :28:59.now is not the best thing I could be doing, maybe someone has messaged or
:29:00. > :29:04.Facebooked me and I need to check it all the time. It is a kind of mild
:29:05. > :29:08.paranoia that leaves us dissatisfied and not present here in the now with
:29:09. > :29:13.somebody talking as we are right now. So what to do about all this?
:29:14. > :29:17.Well you could make a game out of it, phone stacking, if you are out
:29:18. > :29:24.for dinner with a group of friends, everyone stacks their phone face
:29:25. > :29:27.down on the table. Whoever touches their's first gets to pay for
:29:28. > :29:30.everybody. Most people don't realise our brains are wired to want that
:29:31. > :29:33.information, to gain more knowledge and to seek out what is going on in
:29:34. > :29:37.the world. We can't be blamed or feel guilty for wanting to pull our
:29:38. > :29:40.phones out every five or ten minutes. We need to become more
:29:41. > :29:44.aware and gain knowledge about why we are doing that. And in turn
:29:45. > :29:49.create better habits and social norms where we aren't expected to
:29:50. > :29:55.always be available. Various writers and bloggers are attempting to
:29:56. > :30:06.evolve a new tech the the question. Including the -- etiquette.
:30:07. > :30:14.Including the the sister of Mark Zuckerberg. Her blogs are turned
:30:15. > :30:19.into a book. It is about how to turn things all around us rather than
:30:20. > :30:27.getting stuck in a virtual world. Turn off all the beeps that keep us.
:30:28. > :30:31.It is a des to go, turn off cellphones, computers or cameras.
:30:32. > :30:34.Off the grid. You could try digital des to go, like this American
:30:35. > :30:38.retreat that demands phones and computers are handed over. Everyone
:30:39. > :30:48.could benefit from taking, whether a digital des to be retreat, or just a
:30:49. > :30:54.few -- des to go retreat d detox or digital retreat. Some call it a day
:30:55. > :30:56.of digital rest. And I think everyone can benefit from taking,
:30:57. > :31:00.whether it is a few minutes, few hours or days off line. Perhaps
:31:01. > :31:06.though technology will bring us its own solution. The inspiration behind
:31:07. > :31:11.the Google Glass device, currently in development is to get our heads
:31:12. > :31:15.up and hands free, not everyone, it is fair to say that strap ago
:31:16. > :31:20.computer to our head is the answer. One change that may help is the move
:31:21. > :31:25.away from text-based to voice-based computer interaction. In the
:31:26. > :31:33.meantime, are we in danger of becoming robot, the i-diots of this
:31:34. > :31:37.wonderful Spanish animation. Disconnected by the technology we're
:31:38. > :31:44.supposed to have to connect us, always on but never present. Randi
:31:45. > :31:49.Zuckerberg is here, because Facebook has been the subject of a feature
:31:50. > :31:52.film and much hyped public float and endless legal battles it seems. She
:31:53. > :31:56.was responsible for Facebook's public image for six years. She's
:31:57. > :32:02.the sister of the social media site's founder Mark. Now, you seem
:32:03. > :32:05.to be having a bit of a change of mind about whether this is a
:32:06. > :32:12.desirable state of affairs or not. We're all living with it any way? It
:32:13. > :32:17.is definitely a dotcom-plicated world. I think it was having a child
:32:18. > :32:21.of my own that made me revisit my look on technology and become much
:32:22. > :32:25.more aware of just how attached we are to our mobile devices. You have
:32:26. > :32:30.got a sentence in this book about how important it is to acquire a
:32:31. > :32:35.digital identity in the womb! Could you explain that? Well, gosh, our
:32:36. > :32:42.digital identity becomes now even before we're born. I know it sounds
:32:43. > :32:48.crazy but as parents that first time that you post that you are expecting
:32:49. > :32:55.on-line, that first oversharing son know gram photo -- sonogram photo,
:32:56. > :32:58.suddenly you have created a digital footprint for your child on-line. I
:32:59. > :33:02.talked to parents about the really big responsibility we have to our
:33:03. > :33:05.children that way. What is this responsibility. Well you have the
:33:06. > :33:09.responsibility as parents to make sure that if you are sharing
:33:10. > :33:12.information about your children on-line, that you are not doing
:33:13. > :33:17.anything that will damage them in the future. You also have the
:33:18. > :33:21.responsibility, a lot of parents now are turning to Google, to search
:33:22. > :33:26.engines, to make sure that they are carving out the best real estate
:33:27. > :33:29.on-line for their children, they are reserving e-mail address, they are
:33:30. > :33:42.making sure that their child doesn't share a name with someone with very
:33:43. > :33:45.unsavory search results. You are not serious? The first thing anyone will
:33:46. > :33:49.do when they meet your child is search for them on-line. I think it
:33:50. > :33:54.is important for parents to make sure they are putting a child's best
:33:55. > :33:57.foot forward if that is the first thing anyone will do. Do you think
:33:58. > :34:01.there is a distinction any more between private and public? I think
:34:02. > :34:05.it is getting very blurry. Now I think in our real lives we have
:34:06. > :34:10.private, we have public, but most of our lives we live in the personal
:34:11. > :34:13.area inbetween. I share things, I wouldn't really want on the cover of
:34:14. > :34:19.the newspaper, but it wouldn't crush me if it wound up there.
:34:20. > :34:21.Unfortunately on-line don't have that luxury. Everything on-line is
:34:22. > :34:28.very public or private and that's it. Best not to go on-line, wouldn't
:34:29. > :34:32.you say? Well, I would think that a few billion people might disagree
:34:33. > :34:39.with that statement. They choose to do it, they have chosen to succumb
:34:40. > :34:43.to a created need? I think there are amazing benefits to all of these
:34:44. > :34:47.on-line sites, obviously I'm a bit biased I worked for six years on the
:34:48. > :34:51.forefront of one, but I think when you look at a lot of the political
:34:52. > :34:56.events in the world, people now have a voice that used to be voiceless,
:34:57. > :35:01.you look at even the disabled community, people can now
:35:02. > :35:04.communicate in far and away different ways, children now there
:35:05. > :35:07.is so many more tools for education and creativity. Of course you can
:35:08. > :35:13.always look at the dark side of anything. But do you have any sense
:35:14. > :35:17.of a guilty conscience, because you marketed Facebook? No, definitely
:35:18. > :35:22.not. I definitely believe that the glass is very half full when it
:35:23. > :35:27.comes to using Facebook. But what I do think is that especially as a
:35:28. > :35:31.mom, it is easy when you are in Silicon Valley to have your head
:35:32. > :35:35.down and think about what you are innovating right now, it was not
:35:36. > :35:38.until I left and started speaking to other moms, other people around the
:35:39. > :35:42.world that I realised for every opportunity we have created with
:35:43. > :35:46.social media we have also created challenges in people's lives that
:35:47. > :35:54.definitely need to be addressed. Interesting you used the word
:35:55. > :35:58."challenges" as opposed to problems? Problem infers that there is not an
:35:59. > :36:01.easy solution, I think they are challenges because it is a website.
:36:02. > :36:05.It is a phone, it is just a tool. The website isn't bad, the phone
:36:06. > :36:10.isn't bad it is how we use it. Overall people are niave though?
:36:11. > :36:14.People are, no, I don't think people are niave, in fact young people
:36:15. > :36:18.today when you talk to them they are much more savvy about anything
:36:19. > :36:23.on-line than you would even guess or imagine. They are very savvy about
:36:24. > :36:26.their privacy settings, they are savvy about what they share. I don't
:36:27. > :36:30.think people are niave at all, it is a human desire to connect. I think
:36:31. > :36:36.we have taken it a bit too far. Thank you very much. In case you
:36:37. > :36:41.missed it this weekend saw people from 30 countries gather in Croydon,
:36:42. > :36:45.of all place, to take part in the World Memory Championships, today
:36:46. > :36:50.the winner was crowned. Jonas Von Essen triumphed in a series of
:36:51. > :36:53.tasks, including memorising playing cards and historic dates. Tonight we
:36:54. > :36:59.thought we would give him another challenge. You have seven minutes to
:37:00. > :37:04.commit our end credits to memory, starting now. By the age of 77, most
:37:05. > :37:10.people would expect to be able to put their feet up, but the actor
:37:11. > :37:18.Robert Redford is still at it in JC Khanneder's new movie All Is Lost.
:37:19. > :37:23.He plays a man alone fighting the elements when his boat is struck by
:37:24. > :37:29.a cargo container. He's the ship's only speaking role and not that much
:37:30. > :37:39.at all. He met the film critics while he was here. This is the
:37:40. > :37:44.Virginia Jane, SOS call, over. You are sitting at home and the script
:37:45. > :37:47.comes through the door, it is 31 pages long, your character doesn't
:37:48. > :37:50.get a name and barely any dialogue, why do you take the part? I guess
:37:51. > :37:54.you could say that this was evidence of pure cinema. There are no
:37:55. > :38:00.barriers of dialogue, there are no barriers of too much information. It
:38:01. > :38:04.was pretty much existential in that you just had to be there and it
:38:05. > :38:09.would give the viewer a chance to come closer to you as a character.
:38:10. > :38:13.For all those reasons it could easily have gone so wrong, did you
:38:14. > :38:20.and the director ever look at each other and say what are we doing? I
:38:21. > :38:25.used to say that to him! Yeah, I think probably there is always that,
:38:26. > :38:30.there is always that shadow around the film, what are we doing here?
:38:31. > :38:40.This is the Virginia Jane, an SOS call, over. Did you find it a
:38:41. > :38:46.challenge acting without a costar to act opposite? Well I love co--star,
:38:47. > :38:49.I love the interaction between you and another person, I like the
:38:50. > :38:55.dynamic and exchange. But on the other hand I felt totally
:38:56. > :39:00.comfortable with this character. His co-star was the water and the boat.
:39:01. > :39:08.And I had to be comfortable with that and I was. Until it got really
:39:09. > :39:12.stormy. Is that what reminded you of Jeramiah Johnson, which you have
:39:13. > :39:15.compared it to, he's acting opposite the land, here it is the sea, there
:39:16. > :39:23.the American west? It did. But only after. I was too busy getting
:39:24. > :39:26.through it. I was too occupied with the character and what we were going
:39:27. > :39:29.through because it was so intense. But after the film was over and I
:39:30. > :39:34.could think back on it, I realised it had a common theme in the sense
:39:35. > :39:39.that Jeramiah Johnson, in 1970, that was a man going through incredible
:39:40. > :39:42.obstacles that seemed impossible to overcome, but he just kept going.
:39:43. > :39:47.And that was on land. This same thing happens here. And I realise
:39:48. > :39:52.that there was something thematic about that point when things seemed
:39:53. > :39:56.so impossible when all seems to be lost. You are 77 now and obviously
:39:57. > :40:00.in great shape, were you prepared for all that he put you through in
:40:01. > :40:04.the course of the films? I was offered doubles, when we talked
:40:05. > :40:14.originally I said it is pretty intense stuff here physically. When
:40:15. > :40:18.we get down there I will see I will do what I can and we will see where
:40:19. > :40:21.that goes. And one thing led to another, and as I got more into it I
:40:22. > :40:40.got more into it. Do you still find it uncomfortable
:40:41. > :40:44.seeing yourself on the screen when you watch yourself? Yeah. I can't
:40:45. > :40:48.explain it, I just never really liked it much. I have only seen this
:40:49. > :40:55.film once. I didn't see Dailies, I didn't go to the monitor like
:40:56. > :41:01.happens quite a bit now. I'm not a fan of the monitor either as a
:41:02. > :41:07.director or actor. It has become de rigueur for actors and directors to
:41:08. > :41:12.hover around the monitor. Not for me. When I'm in the role I'm in the
:41:13. > :41:16.role I don't want to be distracted by critically looking at myself.
:41:17. > :41:20.Aside from the fact I have never enjoyed seeing myself. To me it is a
:41:21. > :41:23.distraction. You came into the industry first written about as a
:41:24. > :41:27.sex symbol, that must have been a distracting thing, did you find it
:41:28. > :41:32.difficult to pivot out of that to the more politically engaged films
:41:33. > :41:35.you wanted to make? I did, I was surprised when it came and then I
:41:36. > :41:39.was flattered. I enjoyed it for a while. Then I realised that I
:41:40. > :41:43.couldn't slide out of it, that it was being attached to me in a way
:41:44. > :41:49.that began to feel uncomfortable, because I felt it became a very
:41:50. > :41:56.strikes in terms of the performances I would give it would be how I
:41:57. > :42:00.looked rather than the subtle things within the character. I realised it
:42:01. > :42:06.was a bit of a cage and it was really hard to get out of. You have
:42:07. > :42:11.been very passionately engaged with America throughout your career, one
:42:12. > :42:17.thinks of films from You will The President's Men through to Quiz
:42:18. > :42:22.Show, she's your most constant co-star, how has America changed in
:42:23. > :42:26.your lifetime? Nothing has changed from my interests. I felt early on
:42:27. > :42:30.when I had the chance to tell my story as an acting producer and then
:42:31. > :42:36.director, what fascinated me was my own country, but not the country
:42:37. > :42:40.that was propagandaised. Not the country that was overpromoted like
:42:41. > :42:44.it was at the end of the Second World War when I was a kid growing
:42:45. > :42:51.up. I remember hearing all the slogans about "doing your bit",
:42:52. > :42:55.happiness and doing your best", and "it doesn't matter how you play the
:42:56. > :43:01.game as long as you do your best". I realised that was a lie in my 20s,
:43:02. > :43:06.there was a grey zone inbetween. I got interested in that, that was
:43:07. > :43:09.were things were more complex. I didn't see it as black and white,
:43:10. > :43:13.because of my own live ex-peerences I saw a different America. Still an
:43:14. > :43:17.America I loved. There were stories I wanted to tell about the grey part
:43:18. > :43:21.where things were more complex and not so easily determined. And then
:43:22. > :43:26.so that led me to be more interested in making a film where you end it by
:43:27. > :43:30.asking a question. And let the audience play a role in
:43:31. > :43:34.interpretation. It is one of many films this fall with the theme of
:43:35. > :43:38.survival at the centre. I wondered if this speaks to anything in
:43:39. > :43:42.America at the moment, these films that focus on a sort of life or
:43:43. > :43:48.death existential struggle and all is lost as one of those. Does that
:43:49. > :43:52.connect with anything going on? Since we made this film I didn't
:43:53. > :43:58.think you could draw a parallel with where the country is, and now you
:43:59. > :44:01.can. You can. Is all lost? We certainly need to be and seem to be
:44:02. > :44:05.teetering on the edge. It is embarrassing for me as a person who
:44:06. > :44:12.loves my country to see the leaders of my country behaving so
:44:13. > :44:17.ridiculously. So stupidly. In such a narrow-minded way. And seeing how we
:44:18. > :44:23.must be perceived by other countries like yours. What must you think of
:44:24. > :44:26.us? So we had pretty poor representation right now with the
:44:27. > :44:30.breakdown. Particularly you think the motivation on the one side is
:44:31. > :44:39.just one thing, and that is to go against the President. What a rotten
:44:40. > :44:44.situation. Robert Redford talking to us. Alongside me is the world memory
:44:45. > :44:49.champion, Jonas Von Essen, still putting the final names into his
:44:50. > :44:52.head. He's going to recite them all from memory in a moment or two. In
:44:53. > :45:24.the meantime the front I will take that now, right Jonas,
:45:25. > :45:34.nice trophy. I think you can play us out by telling us what the credits
:45:35. > :45:46.were tonight. Yes, the presenter is of course Jeremy emPaxman. The
:45:47. > :46:01.production team consists of it's, em, in order it is... I will give
:46:02. > :46:09.awe clue clue, the first one is James Fray. Gemma Parks, and then
:46:10. > :46:22.Jake Morris, and then it is let's see now. Max? It is Max... Davidson.
:46:23. > :46:26.And then Hannah Razak, and then we have also Sam Ha CLSHGS k. Correct,
:46:27. > :46:39.do you remember any more after that? I think so. We will be here all
:46:40. > :46:45.night. We also have Lorraine Iganis. And Toby Keely. Shall we cut to the
:46:46. > :46:54.chase the editor, the editor at the end? The editor that is of course as
:46:55. > :46:56.usual Ian Katz.