:00:09. > :00:13.The men appointed to decide what America's electronic eavesdroppers
:00:14. > :00:18.should be allowed to do says it is time to put them on a timer leash.
:00:19. > :00:22.But they don't recommend stopping the enormous surveillance programme.
:00:23. > :00:27.The national security agency and its allies, like GCHQ, have details of
:00:28. > :00:30.billions of phone calls and messages. Now the White House has to
:00:31. > :00:37.decide whether they should be allowed to keep them. We will speak
:00:38. > :00:40.to the journalist who exposed NSA snooping.
:00:41. > :00:44.Three months on from the attack on the Nairobi shopping mall and no-one
:00:45. > :00:50.even seems to know what became of the attackers. The brutality of the
:00:51. > :00:53.strike was shocking but now Newsnight has heard increasing
:00:54. > :00:57.suggestions of British-trained police unit is carrying out summary
:00:58. > :01:05.executions. The British Government is helping the ATPO in Kenya kill
:01:06. > :01:09.Muslims by training them and providing them with logistical
:01:10. > :01:12.support and giving them money. This man is only the second professional
:01:13. > :01:15.footballer in this country to come out about his sexuality, is it
:01:16. > :01:21.harder to be gay in the beautiful game. Computer says no. We see how
:01:22. > :01:25.the filthers meant to keep our children safe from pornography are
:01:26. > :01:30.also denying them access to sites which could help them. To find that
:01:31. > :01:34.a major ISP is blocking a really popular sex-education website is
:01:35. > :01:49.really, really frustrating. I feel like they should be helping rather
:01:50. > :01:53.than hindering us in this way. The White House wasn't going to make the
:01:54. > :01:56.recommendations public yet. But tonight it was forced as a result of
:01:57. > :01:58.a leak, funnily enough, to make public what the panel appointed by
:01:59. > :02:03.President Obama thinks should be done to restore faith in America's
:02:04. > :02:07.electronic intelligence-gathering system. Once the sheer scale of
:02:08. > :02:11.National Security Agency snooping had been exposed by newspapers like
:02:12. > :02:15.the Guardian, the pressure of opinion forced the President to look
:02:16. > :02:19.at issuing new rules. Apart from anything else, a couple of days ago
:02:20. > :02:23.federal judge ruled that the surveillance vie lated the American
:02:24. > :02:26.institution -- violated the American constitution. We have been reading
:02:27. > :02:31.the report, it is quite a big deal this, isn't it? T a big deal in the
:02:32. > :02:38.little sense. More than 300-pages I have had to plough through in the
:02:39. > :02:41.last hour-and-a-half, it is 36 recommendation, a lot of it dealing
:02:42. > :02:46.with the Americans. This is a touchy issue, the collection of this met at
:02:47. > :02:50.that data in the case of phone call, the number called, the number that
:02:51. > :02:55.made the call, how long it lasted, that kind of detail. The panel
:02:56. > :03:00.recommend that is this trove of stored phone met at that data on US
:03:01. > :03:07.citizen, one trillion records be junked. They also recommend
:03:08. > :03:12.tightening the rules on the certain court granting surveillance in the
:03:13. > :03:15.US. Introducing a public interest or civil liberties advocate into the
:03:16. > :03:20.court process to make it a more rigorous and argumentative process,
:03:21. > :03:25.so they don't sign off on so many parents. Also there is stuff
:03:26. > :03:28.clipping the wings of the NSA, something recommending that. Perhaps
:03:29. > :03:31.a civilian director, make sure the director is confirmed by the Senate,
:03:32. > :03:35.that is not the case currently to extend control on the agency.
:03:36. > :03:40.Finally some recommendation about spying on foreigner, things like the
:03:41. > :03:44.Angela Merkel phone calls we were hearing about, saying is that
:03:45. > :03:48.necessary, a question the President himself had asked him to consider.
:03:49. > :03:51.These are, as you stress, just recommendations aren't they? The
:03:52. > :03:55.President will have to decide whether he's going to act on them?
:03:56. > :04:01.They are recommendations. That said, it is a panel that includes a good
:04:02. > :04:05.many Washington insiders, including Richard Clarke, counter terrorism
:04:06. > :04:10.adviser to Republican and Democratic Presidents. We know that for example
:04:11. > :04:15.on this collection met at that data, following that -- met at that data
:04:16. > :04:20.following the ruling on Monday, it is already going against them in the
:04:21. > :04:28.courts, it is highly likely they will have to move on the bulk
:04:29. > :04:34.members metadata, but ultimately the President could rule it is against
:04:35. > :04:38.the national interest to gather data on a bulk of topics and they will
:04:39. > :04:44.continue to do so despite the regulation. What is meta-data? In
:04:45. > :04:49.phone call terms, it is the number you have called, for how long and
:04:50. > :04:53.your number, in internet terms it can be the page you looked at. What
:04:54. > :04:57.it doesn't include, particularly in the sense of phone calls, and we
:04:58. > :05:03.hear 60 million details were taken in Spain or whatever, it is what
:05:04. > :05:09.actually people were saying. Glenn Greenwald is the former
:05:10. > :05:20.Guardian columnist who helped bring the files taken by global leaker
:05:21. > :05:26.Edward snoweden out. This report does suggest, doesn't it that the
:05:27. > :05:30.NSA was in need of reform? It is one way to read it, with respect it is
:05:31. > :05:35.the wrong way to read it. All this report does it suggest there is a
:05:36. > :05:41.feeding frenzy in Washington, aided by promiscuous Snowden disclosures
:05:42. > :05:46.by the media turning, if you will against this administration, which
:05:47. > :05:51.up until now has been a media dearlying. And extreme opinions from
:05:52. > :05:55.left and right. The marching orders for this commission this board has
:05:56. > :06:00.been let as come up with a bunch of changes. It is really not a serious
:06:01. > :06:04.dispassionate look at what is necessary for national security and
:06:05. > :06:08.also whether or not there are any abuses. It is remarkable unlike all
:06:09. > :06:12.the other episodes involving intelligence and reforms in this
:06:13. > :06:16.country and others, there has been zero abuses. Nobody has done
:06:17. > :06:25.anything wrong. Nobody has demonstrated that this level of
:06:26. > :06:31.collection, meta-data or otherwise, this is a very unfortunate exercise.
:06:32. > :06:36.This is a bipartisan inquiry, which has come up with conclusion about
:06:37. > :06:41.the need for change? But what I'm trying to say I wouldn't get too
:06:42. > :06:46.hung up on the question of who is bipartisan, Richard Glock, who used
:06:47. > :06:50.to work for the administration is a technocrat. The pressure for change
:06:51. > :06:54.is bipartisan, you have extreme right in the Republican Party,
:06:55. > :06:57.particularly the TEA Party, and extreme left in the Democratic
:06:58. > :07:01.party, and they are clamouring for it. Just because both sides are
:07:02. > :07:05.clamouring doesn't make it right. My point is there is no seriously
:07:06. > :07:09.well-conceived explanation of why the change is necessary. Either from
:07:10. > :07:14.a standpoint of the operational needs of the intelligence community
:07:15. > :07:17.in the age of global terror or the standpoint of abuses. What abuses
:07:18. > :07:22.have been demonstrated. Weren't you surprised by the scale of it? By the
:07:23. > :07:27.recommendations not at all. I'm so sorry I was unclear, I apologise,
:07:28. > :07:33.weren't you surprised by the scale of surveillance that was disclosed
:07:34. > :07:38.in these reports and leaks? No, quite frankly the biggest problem of
:07:39. > :07:44.the disclosures is the level of sensationalism it brings. Most
:07:45. > :07:47.people would understood that meta-data collection as we are
:07:48. > :07:51.correspondent detailed about its collection. If you are looking for a
:07:52. > :07:55.needle in a haystack, what sense does it make to have one half or one
:07:56. > :08:00.third of a stack. You need to collect all of the meta-data, and
:08:01. > :08:04.drill down on t and only do it in a limited fashion. I want to make sure
:08:05. > :08:08.your viewers understand that, you are only looking for conversation on
:08:09. > :08:12.which phone numbers were called or received called from a magic list of
:08:13. > :08:15.phone numbers associated with foreign terrorist entities. That is
:08:16. > :08:19.the only thing that is done as far as data analysis. You start with a
:08:20. > :08:23.tremendous data set and you drill it down to maybe a list of a few
:08:24. > :08:27.hundreds, or a couple of thousand. But any mathematician, any serious
:08:28. > :08:33.scientist will tell you there is no other way to do that. You have to
:08:34. > :08:41.start with the complete data set. I might get back to you in a minute or
:08:42. > :08:44.two, I hope. Glenn Greenwald was the person who brought it to the public
:08:45. > :08:49.attention on receiving the files. Do you think you have had a victory
:08:50. > :08:53.here? It has been a huge victory, it is the whole week has been an
:08:54. > :09:01.amazing victory. First a federal court, and not a liberal judge, one
:09:02. > :09:05.appointed by George W Bush, a conservative judge said it violates
:09:06. > :09:09.core privacy rights and said there was zero evidence that the NSA can
:09:10. > :09:18.present saying these things were helpful in stopping terrorist plots.
:09:19. > :09:21.And a group set up by President Obama and they said the name thing
:09:22. > :09:24.that this pose as threat to liberty and it is not necessary to stopping
:09:25. > :09:29.even a single terrorist plot. It is a complete vindication of everything
:09:30. > :09:35.Mr Snowden said early on and we have been reporting for the last six
:09:36. > :09:38.months. If it is acted upon will it meet your concerns? Well, there are
:09:39. > :09:43.still a lot of details to be worked out f it is acted upon in full it
:09:44. > :09:47.will be a very significant step to restoring individual privacy and
:09:48. > :09:51.some meaningful controls on the NSA which are currently lacking,
:09:52. > :09:57.absolutely. At that point your campaign ends, does it? No, remember
:09:58. > :10:02.there are still a lot of other abuses that the NSA is engaged n
:10:03. > :10:07.when it comes to spying on foreign national, not talking about
:10:08. > :10:11.meta-data, but the content of their e-mails, telephone calls, browsing
:10:12. > :10:17.histories, on-line chats. There are important regulatory constraints
:10:18. > :10:22.that need to be imposed on the NSA that means they are abiding by the
:10:23. > :10:26.rules. It is abusing its power the NSA, this is one important step to
:10:27. > :10:30.curbing the domestic part of those abuses. This is a mechanism for
:10:31. > :10:34.bringing the NSA under the control of the White House and other
:10:35. > :10:42.regulatory authorities. What is wrong with that? The NSA is already
:10:43. > :10:46.under the control of the White House because it is part of the defence
:10:47. > :10:50.department. The way it reports to the President as Commander-in-Chief.
:10:51. > :10:54.I'm not really sure what you are asking. It is already part of the
:10:55. > :10:59.executive branch under the authority of the White House. For example, on
:11:00. > :11:04.the question of the surveillance of foreign leaders, a particularly
:11:05. > :11:10.contentious issue, the proposal here is such authorisation has to come
:11:11. > :11:14.directly in the explicitly, in a particular case from the White
:11:15. > :11:18.House? Right, well first of all I think most insiders and there has
:11:19. > :11:21.been lots of people who have gone to reporters and said this, the White
:11:22. > :11:24.House was already ware of the targeting of these leaders. Although
:11:25. > :11:30.they deny it. Secondly the mere fact that the President approves of it
:11:31. > :11:35.doesn't make it right, the President approves of all sorts of things like
:11:36. > :11:40.imprisoning people at Guantanamo with no charges, and the current NSA
:11:41. > :11:44.programme. And there is a consensus that people believe these are wrong.
:11:45. > :11:48.More constraints is better, and they are heading in the right direction
:11:49. > :11:51.clearly as a result of what Mr Snowden did. On the basis of these
:11:52. > :11:57.recommendations would you be prepared to return to their rightful
:11:58. > :12:00.owners such files as are currently in your possession? The rightful
:12:01. > :12:04.owners of the information in these documents are the American people.
:12:05. > :12:07.Who paid for them and whose Government should not have been
:12:08. > :12:10.hiding these programmes from them. As a journalist I'm not going to
:12:11. > :12:13.return anything to the Government until we are done with our
:12:14. > :12:17.reporting, which means disclosing all of the news worthy item that is
:12:18. > :12:20.are contained in these documents precisely because as we have seen
:12:21. > :12:24.this week it brings about great debate, a strengthening of democracy
:12:25. > :12:32.and serious reforms. I will continue to do that because I'm a journalist.
:12:33. > :12:37.How long are you prepared to hang on to them for? I just gone done
:12:38. > :12:41.telling you I will hangen to them, as are the New York sometimes, and
:12:42. > :12:44.the Washington Post and other media organisations that have tens of
:12:45. > :12:48.thousands of documents aside from me for as long as it takes to continue
:12:49. > :12:52.to report on all of the news worthy items in them. Meaning things that
:12:53. > :12:56.the people of the United States and around the world have a right to
:12:57. > :13:03.know in terms of what is being done to their privacy and internet
:13:04. > :13:06.freedom. Are there any items among these newsworthy items as you put
:13:07. > :13:11.it, that you are not prepared to put it? As evidenced by the fact that we
:13:12. > :13:14.have only published a very small portion of the documents we
:13:15. > :13:17.received, despite having them for six months, of course there are
:13:18. > :13:20.things that as a responsible journalist I would not publish,
:13:21. > :13:26.including things that might help other states augment their
:13:27. > :13:34.surveillance capabilities. I would not publish things the NSA has about
:13:35. > :13:38.public privacy. I think it is clear my heself and the other newspapers
:13:39. > :13:41.have been extremely judicious with the material we have been given
:13:42. > :13:47.while reporting on them. Thank you for joining us. I hope that my guest
:13:48. > :13:55.is still able to talk to us. Did you hear that? Yes, I'm frankly struck
:13:56. > :14:00.by the hubris and arrogance of our guest, and NSA far from being a
:14:01. > :14:07.rogue agency, it is one agency in the world most subject to political
:14:08. > :14:14.controls, but fulsome judicial and congressional oversight. I would
:14:15. > :14:18.tell your viewers that not a single agency is that much subject to
:14:19. > :14:21.congressional and judicial oversight, but that is not enough
:14:22. > :14:25.for the likes of your guest. Think for a second that one of the reasons
:14:26. > :14:31.we suffered over 3,000 dead Americans in 9/11 is because we
:14:32. > :14:36.didn't have meta-data collection programmes. We didn't know that
:14:37. > :14:40.known terrorists from overseas were calling people, their confederates
:14:41. > :14:48.in the United States. That is why the whole programme was institutes,
:14:49. > :14:53.it is not a moshed a morbid desire to learn aboutth -- a morbid desire
:14:54. > :14:57.to learn about things. What do you say about that accusation, you are a
:14:58. > :15:02.menace? It is not an accusation, it is a fact. I think, I want to make a
:15:03. > :15:09.very important point about this, ever since 9/11 the US and UK
:15:10. > :15:12.Governments scream terrorism to justify everything they do, they
:15:13. > :15:16.scream 9/11. And yet what we have had in the last few weeks is
:15:17. > :15:20.senators on the Intelligence Committee who have said there is
:15:21. > :15:23.zero evidence that the NSA can point to that these programmes help stop
:15:24. > :15:27.terrorist plots. We had a court that said it just three days ago, a
:15:28. > :15:30.George W Bush apppointee, federal judge, who said there is no evidence
:15:31. > :15:34.the programme does that. Now we have an advisory board within the
:15:35. > :15:37.executive round who just said the same thing that they can't prove and
:15:38. > :15:42.there is no evidence that it helps to stop terrorism. All three
:15:43. > :15:45.branches said what was just said is pure fear mongering, there is no
:15:46. > :15:49.evidence for it. Screaming 9/11 no longer works to scare people and
:15:50. > :15:56.justify Government programmes. We will cut across you. Thank you very
:15:57. > :16:00.much indeed. Thank you. Thanks. In a moment we speak to the
:16:01. > :16:10.professional footballer who felt he couldn't play before British crowds
:16:11. > :16:16.as an openly gay man. You may recall our coverage a few
:16:17. > :16:21.weeks of the Bitcoin phenomenon. It is a virtual currency that seduced
:16:22. > :16:35.many who don't trust Government. Early last year a Bitcoin was worth
:16:36. > :16:41.$5, and they went up. Now we are worth a lot less. The bank
:16:42. > :16:48.responsible is the bank in China. It has no physical existence and can be
:16:49. > :16:54.carried on a memory stick, it is the antithesis of what the Communist
:16:55. > :16:58.Party stands for. They are banning the buying of goods with Bitcoin.
:16:59. > :17:04.The vision behind it is remarkable. Lots of uses are some what shady. It
:17:05. > :17:09.is symbolic of the concern China has about losing their grip on capital
:17:10. > :17:13.controls. Currencies are all about confidence, if enough people accept
:17:14. > :17:17.them as payment you know you can buy what you want and accept them too.
:17:18. > :17:21.In a prison it might be cigarette, on the Internet it is encrypted
:17:22. > :17:27.message that is you buy and send to other users to pay for your beer or
:17:28. > :17:31.cake. Bitcoin, today confidence in Bitcoin collapsed. Today has been an
:17:32. > :17:35.amazing day in the Bitcoin world. With interesting but concerning news
:17:36. > :17:39.from China. The issue is the Chinese Government has stopped the payment
:17:40. > :17:48.processor from allowing the normal Chinese population to deposit money
:17:49. > :17:52.into the biggest exchange in the world. Chinese people will find it
:17:53. > :17:58.difficult to buy Bitcoin in future. If it went in too easily it would
:17:59. > :18:02.become worth nothing. Its supply is controlled. Not by a Central Bank,
:18:03. > :18:06.users accept a protocol which restricts the supply of new Bitcoins
:18:07. > :18:10.to 150 of them per hour. While supply is restricted demand for
:18:11. > :18:13.Bitcoin has rocketed. Fed by the growing belief that it is credible
:18:14. > :18:23.and legal. At the start of the year one Bitcoin would cost you $13. 28.
:18:24. > :18:29.The price rose as traders guessed that the US would accept it as a
:18:30. > :18:32.legitimate exchange. And that happened.
:18:33. > :18:39.By the end of today it was worth less than half that. Imagine the
:18:40. > :18:43.pound rose by 40% one day and next month fell by 30%. Either of those
:18:44. > :18:46.events would be big enough to be regarded as a currency crisis to
:18:47. > :18:52.throw any Government into panic. That has what led critics of Bitcoin
:18:53. > :18:56.say it is too volatile to be seen as a currency, more like a get rich
:18:57. > :19:00.quick scheme. Bitcoin is no in no ready to be called a currency, given
:19:01. > :19:06.the volatility we have seen over the past few weeks, it has halved in
:19:07. > :19:10.value. Merchants can't use it as a medium of exchange, because they
:19:11. > :19:19.don't know the value of T we saw a guy buy a car in the United States
:19:20. > :19:24.for $103,000, and paid for it with Bitcoin, the value of Bitcoin halved
:19:25. > :19:29.and the dealership is down 50%. A month ago the much followed
:19:30. > :19:32.financial blogger was asked the financial question. Can you explain
:19:33. > :19:40.in an entirely understandable way what a Bitcoin. It is a electronic
:19:41. > :19:45.currency just like money without any state interference. He believes that
:19:46. > :19:51.the Bitcoin supply means it will be stronger in the long run than normal
:19:52. > :19:57.currencies where central banks create billions from midair? Bitcoin
:19:58. > :20:01.would say this the British pound, clearly the British pound supplies
:20:02. > :20:06.infinate, the Bank of England can print any number if they want. Any
:20:07. > :20:13.time they make a mistake they print more, that is a debasement of the
:20:14. > :20:24.currency. So Bitcoin is capped at 21,000. These pounds are backed by
:20:25. > :20:30.nothing. Don't do that! Today Bernat the US said it was slowing down its
:20:31. > :20:34.production of the dollar. The dollar only moved slightly, that is how the
:20:35. > :20:37.Fed like its currency nice and steady.
:20:38. > :20:41.It is three months since the world was transfixed by a terrorist attack
:20:42. > :20:48.on that symbol of western capitalism a shopping mall in Nairobi, nearly 0
:20:49. > :20:53.people died. Much of the attack was filmed on CCTV and the world's media
:20:54. > :20:57.awaited outside. All this time later the authorities in Kenya don't even
:20:58. > :21:03.know for certain how many people were involved in the attack on the
:21:04. > :21:06.west gate Mal -- Westgate Mal, or if any of the takers are still alive.
:21:07. > :21:13.There are increasing voices raised to suggest that in the aftermath
:21:14. > :21:19.parts of the Kenyan place are meting out summary justice to those they
:21:20. > :21:32.suspect of being involved in Islamic terrorism.
:21:33. > :21:36.A coastal paradise and gateway for terrorists. We're on the trail of
:21:37. > :21:41.the Westgate attackers. We have travelled to the lawless no man's
:21:42. > :21:45.land where their journey began. People are running away from
:21:46. > :21:52.Somalia, even the Al-Shabab and they are now escaping. ??FORCEDWHI It is
:21:53. > :21:55.a journey that would end in a four-day siege that would car a
:21:56. > :22:00.nation, what happened to the attackers? Could they have escaped
:22:01. > :22:04.during a bungled security operation. The intell begins officers told me
:22:05. > :22:09.they slipped out of Westgate and left the country. Insiders and
:22:10. > :22:13.radicals paint a picture of a dysfuntional, inept Security
:22:14. > :22:19.Service, funded by the west and lashing out at those they see as a
:22:20. > :22:24.threat. The British Government is helping the ATPO in Kenya kill
:22:25. > :22:30.Muslims by training them and providing them with logistical
:22:31. > :22:39.support and giving them money. Is Britain complicit in extra judicial
:22:40. > :22:44.killings in Kenya. We set off from Lamu on Kenya's coast, we are
:22:45. > :22:48.heading north towards the border with Somalia, it was somewhere here
:22:49. > :22:54.towards the end of June four men slipped quietly into Kenya. Those
:22:55. > :23:02.men would go on to carry out one of the deadliest attacks ever seen in
:23:03. > :23:07.the region. Al-Shabab and Al-Qaeda affiliates said it planned and
:23:08. > :23:13.executed the Westgate take in retaliation for Kenya's invasion of
:23:14. > :23:21.Somalia two years ago. That invasion was supposed to secure the country's
:23:22. > :23:24.borders. But the Border Force is overstreched, and the Westgate
:23:25. > :23:31.attackers took advantage of that fact to enter Kenya through this
:23:32. > :23:37.area. This block of concrete here marks the end of Kenya. Beyond this
:23:38. > :23:41.a little bit of no man's land and then Somalia. And standing here, it
:23:42. > :23:48.is easy to imagine what a challenge it must be to secure this border.
:23:49. > :23:54.Both the kilometres of shoreline and the cakers -- acres upon acres of
:23:55. > :24:00.bush and scrubland. No fence separates the two countries. Police
:24:01. > :24:07.are underequipped and understaffed. And yet the local police chief says
:24:08. > :24:11.he's received no reinforcements since Westgate. People are running
:24:12. > :24:15.away from Somalia, even the Al-Shababs, they are now escaping
:24:16. > :24:20.from Somalia, trying to penetrate into Kenya and to go in other
:24:21. > :24:24.directions. How often do you catch people? Let's say five, six people
:24:25. > :24:34.per week. How many do you think you are not watching? -- catching? For
:24:35. > :24:38.us the border is I'm sure people penetrating without us catching
:24:39. > :24:42.them. We now know that once inside Kenya the Westgate attackers made
:24:43. > :24:47.their way to Nairobi, where they spent three months planning the
:24:48. > :24:51.attack with the help of local Al-Shabab operatives, in an area
:24:52. > :24:56.known as Eastleigh, or little Mogadishu. On the day of the attack
:24:57. > :24:59.itself there was chaos. It took the security forces more than an
:25:00. > :25:03.hour-and-a-half to reach the scene. By the mid-afternoon the
:25:04. > :25:09.paramilitary police seemed to have the militants pinned down. CCTV only
:25:10. > :25:14.ever shows four likely armed attacker, not 15, as the Kenyans had
:25:15. > :25:19.initially claimed. But then the army came in and that's when things
:25:20. > :25:23.started to go wrong. What happened is there was a lack of co-ordination
:25:24. > :25:29.and each unit was coming in with its own command and you see the way the
:25:30. > :25:33.operation was bungled. When the army in everyone else was kicked out,
:25:34. > :25:44.this is where the operation started going badly. Three months after the
:25:45. > :25:49.attack, outside Westgate, young men shift sift through a mountain of
:25:50. > :25:55.rubble. They are still finding bullet cartridges in the rubble
:25:56. > :25:59.three months later. They are looking for stuff bigger than that to sell.
:26:00. > :26:05.But somewhere in. United States the FBI is still analysing that they
:26:06. > :26:08.found inside Westgate, they think they have the remains of three,
:26:09. > :26:11.possibly four individuals. They are testing them for DNA, at the moment
:26:12. > :26:17.they don't really know if they belong to the attackers.
:26:18. > :26:21.They may have been killed, but it is possible that they got away, escaped
:26:22. > :26:28.during the confusion of the siege. The truth is, at the moment even the
:26:29. > :26:33.investigators don't know. Less than two weeks after Westgate, young
:26:34. > :26:37.Muslim men clashed with police on the streets of Mombasa, Kenya's
:26:38. > :26:41.second city. The night before a radical preacher by the same of
:26:42. > :26:47.Ibrahim Rogo had been gunned down in his car as he travelled on the
:26:48. > :26:51.outskirts of the city. His supporters believe he was mud bird
:26:52. > :26:57.the Kenyan Security Services, specifically by an outfit known as
:26:58. > :27:08.the Anti- Terror Police Unit, or the ATPU. Officially members of the
:27:09. > :27:11.Kenyan Antit-Terror Police Unit deny any invest -- any involvement in
:27:12. > :27:16.these murders. One was prepared to talk off the record. He told me the
:27:17. > :27:21.justice system in Kenya is not favourable to the work of the police
:27:22. > :27:24.so we opted to eliminate them. We identify you, we gun you down in
:27:25. > :27:35.front of your family and we begin with the leaders. The aterror police
:27:36. > :27:42.United knit gets equipment and training from the UK. A report has
:27:43. > :27:47.been compiled detailing dozens of cases of terror, torture and
:27:48. > :27:55.rendition carried out by the ATPU. I was following this, I wept to the
:27:56. > :28:02.morgue, and attended post mortems, ATPU, they are confirming this. That
:28:03. > :28:06.is the reality, they can't disclose things, but the reality is they want
:28:07. > :28:09.to impress British, Americans and the world. Because they are getting
:28:10. > :28:17.funding from the Americans, because they are getting training from the
:28:18. > :28:22.British, no. The international community should go back to the
:28:23. > :28:30.drawing board. Few doubt that Kenya does have a
:28:31. > :28:34.problem with radicalisation. Abubakar Shariff Ahmed appears on UN
:28:35. > :28:39.and US sanctions lists. He's accused of being a leading facilitator and
:28:40. > :28:44.recruiter of young Kenyan Muslims for violent militant activity in
:28:45. > :28:47.Somalia. It is the same thing as telling a young man go, to the
:28:48. > :28:52.mosque and pray. It is the same thing as telling a young man, fast
:28:53. > :28:58.in Ramadan. It is the same thing to tell a young man your Muslim brother
:28:59. > :29:03.has been invaded in Somalia, go and help him. That is Islam. He denies
:29:04. > :29:09.recruiting for salt Shabab, but he says the Kenyan Security Services
:29:10. > :29:15.are systematically targeting those they perceive as a threat. They are
:29:16. > :29:20.precementing attacks by -- pre-empting attacks by those they
:29:21. > :29:24.think is a potential attacker or those who have who is potentially an
:29:25. > :29:29.instigator of attack. Are they picking up the right people? Mostly
:29:30. > :29:35.question, but also no. Do you fear for your safety? I don't fear for my
:29:36. > :29:39.safety, I know they are going to kill me. I'm a true Muslim, I
:29:40. > :29:48.believe my life and death is in the hand of lamb. I will try dye -- of
:29:49. > :29:53.Allah. I will die the day Allah decides. Some involved in counter
:29:54. > :29:58.terrorism in Kenya say the country's legal system is hampering their
:29:59. > :30:01.effos. If the police are involved in this it is out of frustration,
:30:02. > :30:05.because they have specific facts. They have done collectively their
:30:06. > :30:09.own intelligence. Probably they know this person is actually involved in
:30:10. > :30:14.terrorism. But you take him to court, tomorrow he is out on bond
:30:15. > :30:20.doing the same things. Estimates for youth unemployment in
:30:21. > :30:25.Kenya are as high as 80%. In mom bassia you don't have to -- Mombasa,
:30:26. > :30:31.you don't have to look hard for young Muslim men who believe the
:30:32. > :30:38.state has little to offer them, and the attempts to stem radicalisation
:30:39. > :30:43.has having the reverse effect. The Antit-Terror Police Unit they are
:30:44. > :30:46.killing us, as Muslims. They are killing our mothers. I'm not a
:30:47. > :30:53.Kenyan, I have no citizenship of this country. As Muslims we are
:30:54. > :31:00.being squeezed. I have no problem if they join Al-Shabab or Al-Qaeda, it
:31:01. > :31:06.is part of Jihad. That is Jihad, everyone should and can go and meet
:31:07. > :31:12.his brothers there. It is about his beliefs only. In a statement the
:31:13. > :31:15.Foreign Office said it took allegations of human rights abuse
:31:16. > :31:19.very seriously. But that the British Government was working with the
:31:20. > :31:28.Kenyan authorities to tackle threats to UK interests. When the Olympic
:31:29. > :31:33.diver Tom Daley announced that he was dating a man, he wondered
:31:34. > :31:35.whether it was easier to make such a declaration if you were an
:31:36. > :31:39.individual sportsman than if you were part of a team. Shortly we will
:31:40. > :31:43.find out. Because we're about to hear from the footballer, Robbie
:31:44. > :31:48.Rogers. It was only after he left Leeds
:31:49. > :31:52.United that the US-born Rogers announced in February his retirement
:31:53. > :31:58.as a professional footballer, and the fact that he was gay. He became
:31:59. > :32:04.the first man to do so in Britain since Justin Fashanu came out in
:32:05. > :32:18.1990. Writing in his blog he said. D..
:32:19. > :32:25.But within a couple of months he was back on the field, this time on home
:32:26. > :32:29.territory as a soccer player for LA Galaxy, citing the fact he had a
:32:30. > :32:33.platform to be a role model. He felt it would be cowardly not to play
:32:34. > :32:41.again. But there was sufficient homophobia still about that the
:32:42. > :32:43.fight was far from over. The campaign BEYOND It, has been very
:32:44. > :32:51.successful in the United States. This week he has joined up with his
:32:52. > :33:01.old club, Leeds United to launch the campaign here. Why are you the only
:33:02. > :33:04., second person to come out? It is the atmosphere in the locker room
:33:05. > :33:07.and stadiums. It was growing up as a footballer and hearing things in
:33:08. > :33:15.locker rooms that really scarred me and made me believe it wasn't
:33:16. > :33:20.possible. Homophobic comments? Yeah. Was this because they were directed
:33:21. > :33:25.at you or just general talk? General talk. General talk for example like
:33:26. > :33:30.how someone could even be gay, that would be a discussion in a football
:33:31. > :33:35.locker room. How did you feel when you heard that? I felt awful, of
:33:36. > :33:39.course, but I would avoid the conversation, I would go more into
:33:40. > :33:44.myself and repress that kind of stuff. It got to a point when I was
:33:45. > :33:51.24, 25, I was like all right I can't live this way. You came out just
:33:52. > :33:56.after you announced your retirement at the same time? I came tout my
:33:57. > :34:00.family in October -- I came out to my family in October/November and
:34:01. > :34:04.planned to stop football, I didn't know what the reaction would be.
:34:05. > :34:07.What was the reaction? Very, very supportive. Which was the exact
:34:08. > :34:11.opposite that I thought would happen. My family from the first
:34:12. > :34:16.second I told them was very supportive, and that's in the end
:34:17. > :34:20.why I went back to football. Do you worry about how the fans would have
:34:21. > :34:23.taken it if you were still playing? In England, yeah. It is great
:34:24. > :34:29.question. No-one has done it, so that was my fears. I had no-one to
:34:30. > :34:35.look up to test those waters for me before I went out there. I did it
:34:36. > :34:39.back in the US because it is not as big a spotlight on football. My
:34:40. > :34:44.family is in LA, if I was really struggling I could always just go
:34:45. > :34:48.home. But I mean eventually someone will do it and footballers will do
:34:49. > :35:01.it, that will be interesting to see. By the law of averages there must be
:35:02. > :35:06.a lot of gay men playing football? I haven't had one text or phone calls
:35:07. > :35:09.about it. I have spoken to friends here and around the UK who have
:35:10. > :35:14.supported me, but not one message from a footballer. What do you
:35:15. > :35:19.deduce from that? It reminds me of the fear that I had and I'm,
:35:20. > :35:24.sometimes you forget when you are on the other side, but you remember
:35:25. > :35:29.that atmosphere and how it made you feel. By the law of averages there
:35:30. > :35:33.are lots of gay footballers? Yeah I know, that shows you there is a huge
:35:34. > :35:37.problem. What do you do to change that, you try to support them and
:35:38. > :35:41.create an environment that is, that would support them to come out and
:35:42. > :35:46.that they would feel comfortable in. But it is really tough. Do you in
:35:47. > :35:54.any sense wish you had done it while you were still an active player? I'm
:35:55. > :35:58.an active player now. But at the end you said you were quitting? No, I am
:35:59. > :36:02.happeny the way I did it, goat to step away and take time for myself,
:36:03. > :36:05.I didn't have people dragging me to do interviews or anything like that.
:36:06. > :36:10.I was in total control and say what I wanted to say. You feel now you
:36:11. > :36:17.have some sort of duty? No, yeah I do. I know when I realised I'm the
:36:18. > :36:19.only one that's doing this. So you know after months of taking some
:36:20. > :36:23.time for myself and receiving letters from people I realised I was
:36:24. > :36:27.being a coward by not going back to football. And I missed it, and it
:36:28. > :36:31.was something I have done my whole life, so I did feel the
:36:32. > :36:35.responsibility. And what was it like when you discovered that your
:36:36. > :36:40.anxiety about how people would react had been misplaced? Yeah, there was
:36:41. > :36:44.two sides of it, sometimes people say do you think footballers make a
:36:45. > :36:49.bigger deal out of it than it is, or athletes. I say nor, no, definite --
:36:50. > :36:53.no, definitely not, they are not coming out because they hear so many
:36:54. > :36:57.things that scare them. My mom said to me I think have you learned that
:36:58. > :37:01.you should give people a chance as well. Give people a chance to get to
:37:02. > :37:05.know you and to see that, yes you are a footballer, you are gay, but
:37:06. > :37:10.there are more sides to you. I did learn that lesson from this, to be
:37:11. > :37:14.open with people and give people a chance. Were your parents surprised?
:37:15. > :37:20.Yes and no, they say sometimes they were, and then they said you dated
:37:21. > :37:23.girls and you threw us off. I'm like OK. That is what I have heard from
:37:24. > :37:28.everybody, I guess I was a good actor. Do you think it is harder to
:37:29. > :37:32.come out if you are playing a team sport as opposed to an individual
:37:33. > :37:35.sport? I haven't played any individual sport, I can speak from
:37:36. > :37:40.my experience and my biggest fear was going back into a locker room
:37:41. > :37:44.and the thought of being treated as an outcast, that was the one thing I
:37:45. > :37:47.didn't want to do. Playing a team sport obviously you are dealing with
:37:48. > :37:52.all those permties and people from all around the world. Is it to do
:37:53. > :38:01.with being naked in the locker room together? No, it is sitting there
:38:02. > :38:07.with all the guys, the banter and talking and trying to fit in all
:38:08. > :38:10.that stuff. It is the team and you are brothers and you fight every
:38:11. > :38:15.week to win a game together. To be outcasted from a group like that and
:38:16. > :38:20.you are there every day is awful. I felt inside that way, but I wasn't
:38:21. > :38:24.treated, no-one knew I was gay. No-one accused me or pointed a
:38:25. > :38:29.finger at me. They didn't know. Do you think it was an unfounded fear?
:38:30. > :38:35.No, because it was the things that I heard my whole life that scared me.
:38:36. > :38:39.From a very conservative Catholic family I'm, from in calm foreignia,
:38:40. > :38:43.I have been playing football my whole life, the things I heard in
:38:44. > :38:47.stadiums and locker rooms made me think I could not play soccer and
:38:48. > :38:52.come out. They are not talking about you? But they are talking about
:38:53. > :38:57.people on the streets, and how could you even be gay man or fall in love
:38:58. > :39:01.with a man. I'm hearing these conversations and riding the bike
:39:02. > :39:06.and thinking this is not the atmosphere for me. In retrospect it
:39:07. > :39:12.was not something you needed to fear? If hi come out and said
:39:13. > :39:16.actually wait, it would have been awkward, but after a few days or a
:39:17. > :39:21.week they would have gotten over it. I'm hoping other athletes will do
:39:22. > :39:24.it. Thank you. As we all know one of the main functions of the internet
:39:25. > :39:28.is to facilitate masturbation, or worse, the Prime Minister has made
:39:29. > :39:33.it his mission to protect children from the called adult material
:39:34. > :39:37.that's there and has encouraged the broadband companies and search
:39:38. > :39:43.engines to install room felters. But news -- felters, but Newsnight has
:39:44. > :39:50.found rather than stopping teenagers clicking through to pornography,
:39:51. > :39:54.some are preventing access to sexual health and rape advice sites.
:39:55. > :39:55.Companies say they still have serious concerns about the whole
:39:56. > :40:19.idea. Politicians are worried about the
:40:20. > :40:22.massive internet traffic to porn sites. There are things that are
:40:23. > :40:26.direct danger to the children that must be stamped out. 82% of British
:40:27. > :40:30.people are really worried about how easy it is to access porn, it is
:40:31. > :40:35.unique that people feel so helpless about this. Porn is the most
:40:36. > :40:39.frequent search term on Google, we cannot allow an industry that make
:40:40. > :40:44.millions out of porn month on month to dictate the pace of change. We
:40:45. > :40:50.have come a long way from the old familiar face of the industry. Soho
:40:51. > :40:53.in London. After pressure from newspapers and child safety
:40:54. > :40:58.campaigners, the Government had little choice but to act. The big
:40:59. > :41:02.internet firms were told to block porn by default to watch any
:41:03. > :41:08.restricted content a customer will have to change his or her broadband
:41:09. > :41:11.settings. Basic parental controls have of course been around for
:41:12. > :41:14.years, but in general you have to go to the trouble of installing
:41:15. > :41:23.software on your computer itself, which then blocks certain websites.
:41:24. > :41:26.These new network-level filteres are much more sophisticated. BT is
:41:27. > :41:32.letting me log on and block sites not from my laptop but the Internet
:41:33. > :41:39.connection itself. Any gadgets from games consoles to phones should be
:41:40. > :41:47.covered by the filter in the same way. TalkTalk was the first big
:41:48. > :41:59.company to do this, the others have caught up, with Sky and BT launching
:42:00. > :42:03.their porn F ilters with their children. Lots of parents find it
:42:04. > :42:07.difficult to talk to their children about sex and porn. I hope that will
:42:08. > :42:10.change, and through the initiatives some of the conversations will take
:42:11. > :42:14.place. We still have a responsibility to do what we can at
:42:15. > :42:18.a technical level, not perfect, not enough, but we still have a
:42:19. > :42:25.responsibility to try to help with technical solutions, wherever we
:42:26. > :42:31.can. As you can see here, this is your site, this is now not running
:42:32. > :42:38.on the TalkTalk network. But critics say internet filters are a blunt
:42:39. > :42:44.instrument, Justin Hancock runs one of the most popular sex education
:42:45. > :42:47.sites on the Internet for under-18s, nothing pornographic here. On the
:42:48. > :42:53.system click on that you will see it is blocked straight away.? When you
:42:54. > :42:59.switch to the TalkTalk network his site is suddenly unavailable. It is
:43:00. > :43:03.coming up as a porn site. Broadband companies will say this was probably
:43:04. > :43:06.just an oversight, if you contact them they will get the block removed
:43:07. > :43:09.and everything will be fine again? They might fix my site in the
:43:10. > :43:13.short-term, what about all the other sites out there for young people.
:43:14. > :43:16.Not just sex education websites but support forums for young people
:43:17. > :43:25.around sex and relationship, the young people who are lesbian, gay,
:43:26. > :43:32.bisexual or trans, who are TalkTalk to say what is allowed or not. When
:43:33. > :43:36.we looked their porn filter also blocks other sex education sites and
:43:37. > :43:41.Labour party crisis centre. And BT banned a connection to a number of
:43:42. > :43:46.domestic violence charities. In its advertising BT boasts its new filter
:43:47. > :43:54.gives peace of mind anywhere in the home, Talk Talk says it protests you
:43:55. > :43:58.on-line. All the filteres perform reasonably
:43:59. > :44:07.well in a test. BT and Sky let through one of 68 popular adult
:44:08. > :44:11.sites, TalkTalk let through more. Scratch beneath the surface and
:44:12. > :44:19.plenty of ex-police the material is easily available. The Internet chat
:44:20. > :44:24.board, Read It, hosts adult content. This is one of the tamest pictures,
:44:25. > :44:29.none blocked. The industry may support this idea,
:44:30. > :44:33.in private it is another matter. One major broadband company told us it
:44:34. > :44:40.has deep reservations about the entire exercise, which it says is
:44:41. > :44:49.just pandering to the daily Mail, others say it is a result of lobby
:44:50. > :44:51.by Christian groups. Not one of the four large internet service
:44:52. > :44:55.providers would talk on camera. So we came to the offices of one of
:44:56. > :45:00.their smaller competitors, the boss here is a father of five and he's
:45:01. > :45:05.far from convinced porn filteres are the answer. How do the systems, the
:45:06. > :45:08.blocking system, how do he they know what to block and what to let
:45:09. > :45:13.through? This is the challenge, you can't have a roomful of people
:45:14. > :45:17.trying to find dodgy website, you have to start with looking for key
:45:18. > :45:20.words. It is an arms industry. The porn industry is a legitimate
:45:21. > :45:24.commercial industry they will fight back. They will find ways to move
:45:25. > :45:28.their websites around to bypass the blocks to make them encrypted this.
:45:29. > :45:33.Will allow people to get to them whether they are kids or not. The
:45:34. > :45:39.official line from all the big broadband companies is there is no
:45:40. > :45:43.single solution and any filtering system won't work perfectly to begin
:45:44. > :45:46.with. There are systems in place to correct any mistakes. Even one of
:45:47. > :45:49.the Government's own advisers on internet safety thinks all this is
:45:50. > :45:56.making it harder, not easier for parents. I think there is a huge
:45:57. > :45:59.risk at the moment and I think it is, it comes out of a desire to do
:46:00. > :46:08.the right thing, but there is a very big risk that we are focussing so
:46:09. > :46:12.heavily on filters and all of the ISPs having them and public Wi-Fi
:46:13. > :46:18.having them, the message is getting through to parents that the filteres
:46:19. > :46:22.will do the job, but no filter will be perfect, even if they were
:46:23. > :46:28.perfect there is still a job for parents to do. The Government has
:46:29. > :46:35.told Newsnight it has now asked its advisers to check that sex advice
:46:36. > :46:41.sites are not being sensored. -- censored. Any quick fix won't be the
:46:42. > :46:44.answer, it might be possible to control a red light district, but
:46:45. > :46:47.can authorities hope to control something like the Internet in the
:46:48. > :46:52.first place. That's about it for tonight. The
:46:53. > :46:56.Bank of England announced a major plastic monetary innovation today.
:46:57. > :47:26.One of our producers stress tested it. Good night.
:47:27. > :47:34.# You took my by surprise I must say # When I found out yesterday
:47:35. > :47:44.# Don't you know # I heard it through the grapevine
:47:45. > :47:45.# Not much longer will you be mine # I heard it through