:00:21. > :01:17.the well What the well dressed man should be wearing about town. Don't
:01:18. > :01:22.worry what they say, ignore them. When a man from Tottenham was shot
:01:23. > :01:25.dead by the police in August 2011, it set off serious rioting which
:01:26. > :01:30.caused the whole nation to ask serious questions about itself. The
:01:31. > :01:34.conclusion of the jury at his infest today that he was lawfully killed
:01:35. > :01:40.has infuriated his family. The jury's finding wasn't unanimous, but
:01:41. > :01:44.its decision that the police acted lawfully, despite the fact that
:01:45. > :01:48.Duggan had thrown away a gun he was carrying before the police opened
:01:49. > :01:58.fire set off fury in court, which has also been vented on the streets
:01:59. > :02:02.of Tottenham. What's the mood there? There is certainly anger and real
:02:03. > :02:06.shock in Tottenham, but actually things are quite calm, that is
:02:07. > :02:09.partly to do with the weather, the terrible rain here has driven people
:02:10. > :02:15.inside. But also that Mark Duggan's family want things to stay calm.
:02:16. > :02:18.There was a scuffle a couple of hours ago between a journalist and
:02:19. > :02:25.one of the supporters of Mark Duggan's family. I overheard Mark
:02:26. > :02:32.Duggan's mother this really aren't isn't helping, making clear she
:02:33. > :02:37.wanted things to stay calm. Signs that the anger is not yet going to
:02:38. > :02:40.boil over. There is a lot of anger is there? In terms of what people
:02:41. > :02:43.have been saying, in terms of young people they have been expressing a
:02:44. > :02:47.lot of anger. But you don't get the sense that they really know what to
:02:48. > :02:51.do with that anger. Parents of children that live locally have also
:02:52. > :02:56.been expressing their fear because of the conclusion of the jury. One
:02:57. > :03:00.of the mothers of one of the children here said to me, what does
:03:01. > :03:05.this mean for our children's rights now. They already feel, many of
:03:06. > :03:08.these parents, that their children are already being victimised by the
:03:09. > :03:13.police through stop and search. There is a fear here that this could
:03:14. > :03:16.further undermine their children's rights here locally. That was
:03:17. > :03:19.expressed. In terms of what the family want to do now, they have
:03:20. > :03:23.been talking about how they want to meet with the Independent Police
:03:24. > :03:27.Complaints Commisssion. They are calling for a vigorous review of the
:03:28. > :03:31.case and they want to meet with MPs. But they have rejected an invitation
:03:32. > :03:35.by the Police to meet. You get the sense that the family are exhausted
:03:36. > :03:41.and they want to regroup and work out what to do next. Jim Reid has
:03:42. > :03:47.been following today's developments, his report contains flash
:03:48. > :03:53.photography. A police assassination, or a tragic but justified shooting.
:03:54. > :03:57.Today by a majority of 8-2 a jury delivered its verdict. Mark Duggan
:03:58. > :04:02.was lawfully killed by armed officers in the summer of 2011.
:04:03. > :04:10.Crucially they decided the 29-year-old was carrying a gun, but
:04:11. > :04:14.threw it away before he was shot. The reaction was furious. His mother
:04:15. > :04:29.was led out of court in tears. On the streets her supporters shouted
:04:30. > :04:35."murderers" drowning out a police statemen
:04:36. > :04:42.Mark Duggan has travelling through Tottenham in a minicab on August 4th
:04:43. > :04:48.2011. Police were convinced he had picked up a gun and was planning to
:04:49. > :04:52.use it. They performed a hard stop, pulling alongside and drawing their
:04:53. > :04:53.weapons. The jury they inquest had to decide what happened next. They
:04:54. > :05:32.were asked a series of questions. Well the jury would have been
:05:33. > :05:36.looking at whether the use of force by the officer was reasonable and
:05:37. > :05:40.proportionate to the threat posed by Duggan. To decide that they had to
:05:41. > :05:43.look at whether at the time the police officer shot Duggan he had an
:05:44. > :05:48.honestly held belief that Duggan was armed. Now the question of whether
:05:49. > :05:51.he was in fact armed relevant but separate to that question. That is
:05:52. > :05:55.really what the jury was looking at. That is why we get the slightly
:05:56. > :05:59.unusual version of lawful killing when the jury still found that he,
:06:00. > :06:08.on the balance of probeabilities was not armed at the time he was shot.
:06:09. > :06:12.The family have always breastled -- bristled at the suggestion that Mark
:06:13. > :06:15.Duggan was a known gangster or a direct threat to officers that day.
:06:16. > :06:20.Speaking outside court they said the family would continue to fight for
:06:21. > :06:24.justice. The majority of people in this country know Mark was executed,
:06:25. > :06:30.he was executed, we will fight until we have no breath in our body for
:06:31. > :06:35.justice for Mark, his children and all of those other deaths in custody
:06:36. > :06:43.that have nothing for. We are not giving up, no justice, no peace. But
:06:44. > :06:47.despite today's verdict the inquest itself still raised some tough
:06:48. > :06:50.questions for the authorities, in particular, in the days after the
:06:51. > :06:54.shooting, how did the story come out that Duggan was killed in a
:06:55. > :07:00.firefight with police when it is now clear he never fired a weapon? That
:07:01. > :07:05.accusation helps trigger a protest march to Tottenham Police Station,
:07:06. > :07:12.which later led to violence. Evidence given in court suggest the
:07:13. > :07:17.police watchdog, the IPCC wrongly briefed journalists, and let the
:07:18. > :07:22.story run uncorrected for days. To put out all this misinformation, to
:07:23. > :07:26.put out the idea that there was a shootout, when they absolutely knew
:07:27. > :07:30.there wasn't a shootout. To refusing to to the family home to inform
:07:31. > :07:34.them, these are the only reasons, the sole reasons we went to
:07:35. > :07:37.Tottenham Police Station. Had they done the things they were supposed
:07:38. > :07:41.to have done we wouldn't have gone to Tottenham Police Station.
:07:42. > :07:44.Tottenham, there wouldn't have been a riot there. I would imagine there
:07:45. > :07:50.wouldn't have been riots in all those other areas of London where
:07:51. > :07:53.there were riots. Mark Duggan's aunt arrived at Tottenham Police Station
:07:54. > :07:59.this evening to speak to the media gathered there. It is 888 days since
:08:00. > :08:02.a shooting which triggered the worst riots in a generation, 115 days
:08:03. > :08:06.since the start of the inquest, it will take many more until some of
:08:07. > :08:11.the residents of this part of London will accept today's verdict.
:08:12. > :08:16.Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley of the Metropolitan Police is here,
:08:17. > :08:21.you saw him in that report. A police officer has to make a spur of the
:08:22. > :08:26.moment judgment. Do you think it is fair that he subsequently, or she
:08:27. > :08:29.subsequently has to go through a judicial process of the kind we saw
:08:30. > :08:34.today? It has to be fair doesn't it. Police use force, that has to be
:08:35. > :08:39.scrutinised, if it is lethal process a judicial process has to be right.
:08:40. > :08:44.Now that process has determined that at the time he was shot he wasn't
:08:45. > :08:46.holding a gun? That process was assessing those split second
:08:47. > :08:53.decisions you have mentioned. So in a few moments, split seconds, Mark
:08:54. > :08:56.Duggan leaves the car, the jury have concluded, threw the weapon and was
:08:57. > :08:59.shot. They haven't given the detailed gaps in that sequence. They
:09:00. > :09:05.have concluded the speed of those events that the officer's judgment
:09:06. > :09:11.was reasonable. When people look at the Woolich incident, through the
:09:12. > :09:15.CCTV, the speed of the events is very clear, and ten ordinary women
:09:16. > :09:19.and men from London have come to the conclusion it was reasonable. The
:09:20. > :09:23.police shot an unarmed man? The jury concluded he PCed up a firearm, got
:09:24. > :09:27.out of the car with the firearm, and the officer reasonably concluded he
:09:28. > :09:31.needed to fire. But they did shoot, they shot an unarmed man? Unarmed
:09:32. > :09:35.man suggest he never had a weapon or any suggestion of it, he was getting
:09:36. > :09:39.out of the car with a weapon. He didn't have a weapon at the time he
:09:40. > :09:43.was shot? He had thrown it just before, clearly. The jury concluded
:09:44. > :09:47.that the police did not make the best use of the intelligence
:09:48. > :09:50.veilable to them, that was an overwhelming thing? That wasn't
:09:51. > :09:56.exactly what they said. One of the things here we should respect the
:09:57. > :10:00.decision of the ten men and women on the jury, they said they wished
:10:01. > :10:03.there was more intelligence work done in advance that might have
:10:04. > :10:07.changed the course of the events. They had no suggestions what that
:10:08. > :10:10.could be. I wish we could have had more intelligence to change that
:10:11. > :10:14.picture. I'm not sure what that would have been. You say you want to
:10:15. > :10:18.talk to the family? Yes. What do you want to say to them? I want to meet
:10:19. > :10:22.with them, they are very upset with the police and very angry, there is
:10:23. > :10:26.a whole range of obvious reasons for that. If it would help I would like
:10:27. > :10:29.to meet with them, they don't want to meet with us and I understand
:10:30. > :10:35.that. You must have some message the rest of us can share that you want
:10:36. > :10:40.to convey to them? It is all very well expressing condolences on
:10:41. > :10:44.television, but if they want to meet face-to-face I will meet with them.
:10:45. > :10:48.When you read the statement today and you were spat at and shouted
:10:49. > :10:53.down, there is a lot of anger out there? It is a massively symbolic
:10:54. > :10:56.event, when we look back at 2011, that is not surprising. Your report
:10:57. > :11:01.overstates that. Over the last two years the confidence of Londoners in
:11:02. > :11:04.the Metropolitan Police has grown. The proportion is not as bad as you
:11:05. > :11:08.present it in your picture. Of course there are communities where
:11:09. > :11:12.there are tensions and difficulties, we are keen to improve, that we have
:11:13. > :11:15.done a lot of work on stop and search in recent years. One of the
:11:16. > :11:20.messages for me is about confidence in how we take on gang and gun
:11:21. > :11:24.crime. We run thousands of firearm operations a year and very few shots
:11:25. > :11:29.are fired, our officers are cautious. That chant you heard "no
:11:30. > :11:33.justice no peace" that is rather chilling isn't it? It is impossible
:11:34. > :11:39.not to have imthough with a family who have lost a loved one. That is
:11:40. > :11:42.completely understandable. That is why I want to meet with them. A jury
:11:43. > :11:46.have looked at the facts and concluded this was lawful killing
:11:47. > :12:04.and the police firearms operation was professional. My guests are with
:12:05. > :12:09.me, Diane abbot and a family friend of the Duggans. How worried are you
:12:10. > :12:12.tonight? I'm not worried, I don't think we will see disorder. First of
:12:13. > :12:15.all, our sympathy to the Duggan family who have lost a loved one, we
:12:16. > :12:22.can't forget that. We have to remember one of the reasons why the
:12:23. > :12:25.Duggan shooting was like a blue touch paper was because of the
:12:26. > :12:28.underlying tensions between police and members of the community. You
:12:29. > :12:32.have to address those issues. Do you share the Assistant Commissioner's
:12:33. > :12:37.view that relations actually have got bette On a very low base they
:12:38. > :12:40.have got better. I do not share. Even though they have done work
:12:41. > :12:43.around stop and search as they have said they might have reduced the
:12:44. > :12:50.number of stop and search they are doing. They are still targeting
:12:51. > :12:55.young black men aged between 15-40 based on nothing other than their
:12:56. > :13:00.colour. I got stopped today going to the Sky studio, I was held up for 45
:13:01. > :13:05.minutes, I was stopped and searched and they took my car away. I was
:13:06. > :13:11.there with my nephew who got angry. As a consequence they then gave me
:13:12. > :13:15.back my key and allowed me to go on my way, 45 minutes it took. Things
:13:16. > :13:19.may have got better, it is a low base, there is still a huge amount
:13:20. > :13:23.of tension around issues like stop and search, deaths in custody and
:13:24. > :13:27.the way the police talk to people. Unless we address these issues we
:13:28. > :13:33.can't say we have learned the lesson of Mark Duggan's shooting. Going
:13:34. > :13:40.back to scentia Jared, Joy Gardener, and the latest one in Brixton, these
:13:41. > :13:45.are cases of black men, and black men and women dying at the hands of
:13:46. > :13:49.the police. Unfortunate circumstances, but we still don't
:13:50. > :13:54.see justice coming, and now Mark is in a long line of this. We must be
:13:55. > :13:59.straight here. The people weren't rioting because of what happened to
:14:00. > :14:02.mark, but because it was a systematic thing they were seeing
:14:03. > :14:06.happening, here we go, another one happening, what will happen here?
:14:07. > :14:13.People will be saying I told you so. I'm calling for people to stay calm,
:14:14. > :14:19.and say to people you may still rightly have an angry head, and I
:14:20. > :14:22.have one. Ten ordinary Londoners came to a conclusion today that he
:14:23. > :14:31.was lawfully killed? I don't think that politicians should second-guess
:14:32. > :14:35.juries, I'm not doing that. I say the underlying issues remain and the
:14:36. > :14:40.police have to deal with them. There is progress, my borough commander in
:14:41. > :14:43.Hackney has brought down stop and search. But there is a long way to
:14:44. > :14:48.go for black and Muslim kids on the street. How do you go about
:14:49. > :14:58.improving relations? Give him a word claim --! The commander in Haringey
:14:59. > :15:03.is a very good policeman, and I believe with people like him in
:15:04. > :15:08.charge, he's going to make, he will make a difference. Unfortunately's
:15:09. > :15:14.not going to reap the reward of his success because 40, 50 years of
:15:15. > :15:18.being the victims of stop and search will take many more years for us to
:15:19. > :15:24.gain any sort of confidence in any police, no matter how good they are.
:15:25. > :15:29.As good as Victor is, he will not reap the benefit until he's some way
:15:30. > :15:33.away. Stop him being promoted? There has been improvements, in order to
:15:34. > :15:37.mend the relationship people have to see the police behaving more fairly,
:15:38. > :15:40.currently they don't believe the police behave fairly to all
:15:41. > :15:43.communities. A charm offensive, they have to be out there meeting the
:15:44. > :15:48.community, in the community, not for us to come into your ivory tower at
:15:49. > :15:53.our choosing and our own expense, we need to turn things around and see
:15:54. > :15:56.our police in our communities, not being afraid to walk the streets and
:15:57. > :16:01.engage and interact with local people. You heard that chant today
:16:02. > :16:06."no justice no peace" is that a widespread feeling? It is a
:16:07. > :16:10.widespread feeling. This isn't going to turn to any violence, we will
:16:11. > :16:13.leave no stone unturned, that is what it means. It means we will not
:16:14. > :16:17.sit back here and accept something, we will see what, taking all the
:16:18. > :16:24.intelligence and information and see what we can do from here legally. I
:16:25. > :16:28.do not foresee another 2011 tension happening here. People have now
:16:29. > :16:33.moved on from that even though this is still a backlash from those
:16:34. > :16:37.times. I still believe that we have got good intentioned people, good
:16:38. > :16:42.senior officers in Haringey, at least I can speak for Haringey that
:16:43. > :16:46.could possibly make a difference. No justice no peace is not a new chant.
:16:47. > :16:50.It is a chant of 20 years old and more. Because these are not new
:16:51. > :16:55.issues, and they still need to be resolved. Do you want to give your
:16:56. > :16:59.response to those? I would like to make a couple of quick points. The
:17:00. > :17:04.positive things about the local borough commander is a very good
:17:05. > :17:08.man, he's inviting young people to set his diary for a day and see the
:17:09. > :17:12.world from their perspective. There is a real commitment to working and
:17:13. > :17:16.seeing communities in their way. The second thing is confronting gun
:17:17. > :17:19.crime in London, 50 people have been shot dead in three-and-a-half years
:17:20. > :17:23.requires us to confront armed criminal, we do, that we try to put
:17:24. > :17:26.them in prison for long periods and take the weapons off the streets. We
:17:27. > :17:30.are running 3,000 firearms operations a year, my officers,
:17:31. > :17:33.professional and careful fire shots once or twice, that sort of
:17:34. > :17:37.information needs to be more public so people can have confidence. Let
:17:38. > :17:41.me finish. In the end... So people can have confidence in what we. Do
:17:42. > :17:45.the last point about stop and search, we are doing 25% less stop
:17:46. > :17:49.and search than a couple of years ago. It is more targeted against
:17:50. > :17:53.criminal, and more effective because we are arresting for people. People
:17:54. > :18:00.like Ken are involved in stop and search who vet the forms we were
:18:01. > :18:08.doing. I think the incident earlier was about a person being prosecuted
:18:09. > :18:11.over lack of insurance. You can only confront gang crime and gun crime
:18:12. > :18:16.with the consent of the community, that is why you have to learn the
:18:17. > :18:23.lessons of Mark Duggan, it is community consent.
:18:24. > :18:32.It is a nice sexy outfit for Men's Fashion Week. I love T I -- it, I
:18:33. > :18:37.would like tips on it myself. The people at the Bank of England who
:18:38. > :18:40.decide how much it is to borrow money and how much we can earn on
:18:41. > :18:45.savings we have will announce tomorrow on altering interest rates.
:18:46. > :18:50.Recent history has been a story of "steady as you go". The Governor of
:18:51. > :18:53.the Bank of England has already said that interest rates shouldn't go up
:18:54. > :18:58.from their current low levels until unemployment is below 7%. The gossip
:18:59. > :19:16.is now he will drop the target to 6. 5% so money stays cheap. But is he
:19:17. > :19:19.right? For more than five years now we have been living with the fear.
:19:20. > :19:28.The fear is that the economy's totering on the brink -- teetering
:19:29. > :19:37.on the brink, one false move and we could plunge into the abyss. When
:19:38. > :19:42.the Bank of England first cut official rates they weren't meant to
:19:43. > :19:45.stay there for long. I want to get back to a situation where interest
:19:46. > :19:50.rates return to levels where savers can earn healthy returns on their
:19:51. > :19:54.savings' accounts. Now, amid a surge in business orders, house prices and
:19:55. > :19:58.investment, no rate rise in sight. For the first time in a long time
:19:59. > :20:04.you don't have to be an optimist to see the glass is half full. The
:20:05. > :20:08.recovery has finally taken hold. The bank's been anxious to reassure City
:20:09. > :20:12.investors it won't raise rates as long as unemployment is above 7%.
:20:13. > :20:17.But unemployment has fallen so fast it is now expected to cut that
:20:18. > :20:21.threshold to 6. 5. Here is why the City fears a rise in interest rates,
:20:22. > :20:27.institutions there hold Government bonds worth hundreds of billions of
:20:28. > :20:31.pounds, who wants a Government bond paying a tiny fixed rate of interest
:20:32. > :20:35.when rates are about to go up, not as many as before. With fewer buyers
:20:36. > :20:39.that can pull prices down, costing city institutions that hold the
:20:40. > :20:44.bonds billions. Should the rest of us share the City's fear, or could
:20:45. > :20:50.the rise help more people than it harms? If official rates rise by 2.
:20:51. > :20:52.5% then the number of mortgage borrowers spending over a third of
:20:53. > :20:56.their income on the mortgage would double to 16%. To cover the higher
:20:57. > :21:00.repayments half of all mortgage holders would have to earn more or
:21:01. > :21:04.cut their spending. But hang on, if you are a glass half full person
:21:05. > :21:08.that means half of all mortgage holders could withstand a 2. 5% rise
:21:09. > :21:12.in interest rates without even cutting their spending. It ignores
:21:13. > :21:17.the many on fixed rate mortgages who would be protected from rising rates
:21:18. > :21:22.and assumes no rise in incomes. If incomes do rise it will look a lot
:21:23. > :21:26.less scary down there. The Bank of England, the politicians are all
:21:27. > :21:29.focussing on the minority of the population who have got massive
:21:30. > :21:35.mortgages. That is undoubted, the amount of mortgages in the system is
:21:36. > :21:41.huge. However, three-quarters of the population either have no mortgage
:21:42. > :21:45.or a very small one. What's often forgotten is fewer than a third of
:21:46. > :21:53.households actually have a mortgage. Most of us don't worry about rate
:21:54. > :21:55.rises. A poll last month showed nearly a third believe an interest
:21:56. > :21:59.rate hike would leave them better off. Another third say the change
:22:00. > :22:03.will make little differences to their finances. Everyone in the
:22:04. > :22:07.country will benefit directly because higher interest rates will
:22:08. > :22:11.raise the value of our currency, it will reduce the cost of imports,
:22:12. > :22:16.therefore the cost of living will plummet, everyone will benefit from
:22:17. > :22:19.that and over half the population who have very little debt or no debt
:22:20. > :22:25.at all will actually directly benefit as well because they will
:22:26. > :22:30.get more bangs for their buck from their deposit accounts. Right now
:22:31. > :22:33.the markets are betting the Bank of England won't plunge and raise
:22:34. > :22:37.interest rates any time this year, but with every bit of positive
:22:38. > :22:44.economic data, the case for raising them gets stronger and the case for
:22:45. > :22:48.lowering gets weaker. Maybe the Bank of England will realise that the
:22:49. > :22:59.fear of economic doom is just an illusion. Ever since Otto von
:23:00. > :23:03.Bismarck predicted over 30 years before the First World War began
:23:04. > :23:07.that the next war in Europe would be set off by some damn fool dispute in
:23:08. > :23:11.the Balkan, statesmen have been careful not to consider any
:23:12. > :23:17.territorial dispute insignificant. Right now Japan and China are in
:23:18. > :23:22.fierce conflict over a group of un inhabited islands in the Pacific.
:23:23. > :23:27.Tension is rising with much name-calling and the like. Is it
:23:28. > :23:35.really possible that hostilities could break out over such an
:23:36. > :23:38.apparently pifling disPUCHLT we have ambassadors from both countries and
:23:39. > :23:42.they have agreed to talk to us separately. Firstly we look at the
:23:43. > :23:49.score. The private act of a Chinese citizen
:23:50. > :23:55.or blatant act of military. When the shrine was visited last month, where
:23:56. > :23:57.a handful of war criminals is commemorated among hundreds of other
:23:58. > :24:19.veteran, China was furious. If halfy potter was good enough for
:24:20. > :24:31.him, it was good enough for the Japanese counterpart!
:24:32. > :24:39.If the Horcrux is a powerful dangerous object, then the shrine is
:24:40. > :24:44.hardly the only one in the battle of alleged good and evil. Far from
:24:45. > :24:51.Japan's southern tip, a scattering of uninhabited rocks juts out of the
:24:52. > :24:57.east China sea. Japan calls them Senkaku, in China they are known as
:24:58. > :25:00.Diaoyu, they are a few square miles in total but loaded with strategic
:25:01. > :25:04.significance, close to shipping lanes and shipping grounds, and
:25:05. > :25:10.offering the tantalising promise of oil and gas. Japan controls them,
:25:11. > :25:15.both sides claim them, they shadow each other with evident mistrust. In
:25:16. > :25:20.November China added a new potentionally dimension, an air
:25:21. > :25:26.identification zone over most of the east China sea, overlapping Japan's
:25:27. > :25:31.own similar zone. Chinese and Japanese jets have been flying in
:25:32. > :25:34.and out ever since. Japan is sweeping forward, with more and more
:25:35. > :25:38.troops landing at Sianing coy pushing into the interior. There is
:25:39. > :25:44.nothing particularly new about this naked hostility, Japan's invasion in
:25:45. > :25:49.the 1930s left deep scars in the Chinese psyche. The Prime Minister
:25:50. > :26:01.says he wants dialogue not confrontation. But he wants to amend
:26:02. > :26:07.Japan's post-war pacification. He's sure they can gain understanding if
:26:08. > :26:16.they explain the administration's proactive passism. -- pacifism. It
:26:17. > :26:24.is the kind of talk guaranteed to fuel Beijing's fears. China, of
:26:25. > :26:29.course, has its own naval ambition, its first aircraft carrier has
:26:30. > :26:35.completed its first maiden voyage. TRANSLATION: If Japan doesn't take
:26:36. > :26:39.it as a guide and stick to peaceful development, they will lead Japan in
:26:40. > :26:43.a dangerous and wrong way. This is a disaster rather than blessing to
:26:44. > :26:48.regional peace. The irony is that all this takes place against a
:26:49. > :26:54.backdrop of growing economic interdependence. Quite simply the
:26:55. > :26:59.two countries need each other. But in 2012 Japanese businesses were
:27:00. > :27:02.attacked across China after the Japanese Government bought three of
:27:03. > :27:07.the disputed islands from their private owner. For all their ties,
:27:08. > :27:12.it seems history and geography keep getting in the way. We will talk to
:27:13. > :27:19.the Chinese Ambassador in a moment. First his Japanese counterpart,
:27:20. > :27:23.Keiichi Hayashi. These islands aren't inhabited, why not give them
:27:24. > :27:30.to the Chinese? It is a matter of principle. It is a matter of
:27:31. > :27:41.sovereignty. I know the British also have the sovereignty issue we
:27:42. > :27:52.acquired these islands peacefully and lawfully. In the late 19th
:27:53. > :27:59.century. Since then we have held the sovereignty for 120 years. China
:28:00. > :28:02.never challenged it until 1970. But is it really worth jeopardising the
:28:03. > :28:06.security of the whole of that part of the world, and possibly the world
:28:07. > :28:10.itself. I think the question should be directed to the Chinese. We have
:28:11. > :28:15.held the effective control over the islands very peacefully and in
:28:16. > :28:23.accordance with the international law. They are challenging the status
:28:24. > :28:27.quo by force and coercion. It is completely against the international
:28:28. > :28:33.order. Isn't what's really happening here that Japan is seeking to
:28:34. > :28:40.re-establish a military identity? No, that's not quite true. It is
:28:41. > :28:47.true you are seeking constitutional reform in your country? The track
:28:48. > :28:56.record of the Japanese commitment to peace has been very strong and the
:28:57. > :29:04.Prime Minister himself has made is it very clear that he has no
:29:05. > :29:13.intention of changing the core tenets of pacifism. Why change the
:29:14. > :29:19.constitution by changing it in the use of force and changing arms? We
:29:20. > :29:23.are not looking at using force. He wants to change the constitution? As
:29:24. > :29:27.I said, there could be some debate over the constitution, but the Prime
:29:28. > :29:35.Minister, as I said, made it very clear that he has no intention of
:29:36. > :29:40.changing the core tenets of pacifism. Over the islands what has
:29:41. > :29:49.been happening is the utmost self-restraint on the part of the
:29:50. > :29:56.Japanese, while the Chinese have continuously been trying to change
:29:57. > :29:59.the status quo by force and coercion, they are very much
:30:00. > :30:07.concerned about it, it is a dangerous provocation, but as has
:30:08. > :30:12.been mentioned, I think they have to abide by the rule of law, rather
:30:13. > :30:18.than resorting to the use of force and coercion. Do you think it helps
:30:19. > :30:32.things to use childish abuse, comparing people to to Voldemort for
:30:33. > :30:39.example? I don't want to refer to "he who must not be named"! I only
:30:40. > :30:47.responded to the Chinese groundless and baseless accusation. The major
:30:48. > :30:54.thrust of my message earlier is so call for dialogue at the top level.
:30:55. > :30:58.Simply because we have some differences in our views. You say
:30:59. > :31:01.there is nothing to talk about? How can there be dialogue if you think
:31:02. > :31:07.there is nothing to discuss? There is a difference of view, so we ought
:31:08. > :31:15.to sit down and talk and the problem is not our sovereignty. But the
:31:16. > :31:20.problem is more to do with the continuous Chinese provocation. We
:31:21. > :31:28.need to sit down and talk. To sort it out. Thank you very much. We can
:31:29. > :31:32.pick up on some of those points with the Chinese Ambassador, Liu Xiao
:31:33. > :31:38.Ming. How are you? Fine Jeremy. Thank you very much for coming in.
:31:39. > :31:44.So good to see you again. Sorry! Now how serious do you think this is?
:31:45. > :31:50.Very serious. This is a very serious issue. The Japanese Prime Minister's
:31:51. > :31:56.visit to the shrine in our view is not a small matter. It concerns how
:31:57. > :32:03.the Japanese face up to their history of aggression. But we care
:32:04. > :32:07.more about how, I would quote Winston Churchill's words, those who
:32:08. > :32:13.fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So we're
:32:14. > :32:17.concerned that they do not face up to their disgraceful record of
:32:18. > :32:21.aggression. What will happen for the future? You raised this question of
:32:22. > :32:32.the visit to the shrine. There have been over prime ministerial visits
:32:33. > :32:37.to that since the war, and to 20-something of them the Chinese
:32:38. > :32:47.raised no question at all? That is not right, it was not until 1978
:32:48. > :32:52.when 14 A-class war criminals moved in, and in 1985 the Japanese Prime
:32:53. > :32:59.Minister you know together with the whole cabinet, with the shrine,
:33:00. > :33:03.launched a protest. Since then we have launched countless protests to
:33:04. > :33:08.it. Let's look at the islands, why have you suddenly asserted control
:33:09. > :33:13.of the air for example above them. Why have you suddenly done that?
:33:14. > :33:18.That was a good question. Why this matter crops up so suddenly, it has
:33:19. > :33:23.been very peaceful for the past 40 years. First of all I would say this
:33:24. > :33:29.island has been, to China, has been part of Chinese territory since
:33:30. > :33:36.ancient times. It was not until 1895 when China lost a war with Japan.
:33:37. > :33:41.They seized illegally, but according to Cairo Declaration, the
:33:42. > :33:47.proclaimation, it was ordered territory seized illegally by Japan
:33:48. > :33:52.should be returned to China. That was agreed by British leaders,
:33:53. > :33:58.American leaders and other leaders. When was the Cairo Declaration?
:33:59. > :34:02.1945. It is nothing to do, you say, with natural resources which may be
:34:03. > :34:06.connected to these islands, or may be available from these islands? It
:34:07. > :34:14.was about sovereignty. It is about, you know, territory. Let me finish
:34:15. > :34:18.about why it has come up. When we normalised relations in 1972 both
:34:19. > :34:26.leaders agreed you know there is a dispute over the islands. We should
:34:27. > :34:32.shelf the difference, in 1978 when there was a visit to Japan and asked
:34:33. > :34:36.the question about the islands, the Prime Minister said there was a
:34:37. > :34:41.dispute with Japan, but I think we can shelf it for the time being. The
:34:42. > :34:46.future generations will be wiser than us. We agreed to put it on the
:34:47. > :34:51.shelf. But the Japanese want to change the status quo. In the past
:34:52. > :34:54.few years what did they do? They tried to nationalise this island,
:34:55. > :34:58.they want to you know purchase this island by their Government. How far
:34:59. > :35:05.are you prepared to take this dispute? How First of all we asked
:35:06. > :35:11.them, they have to face facts that we have a dispute over this island.
:35:12. > :35:14.They even refuse to recognise there is a dispute between the two
:35:15. > :35:18.countries. Implicitly the ambassador over there a second or two ago was
:35:19. > :35:27.talking about the need for dialogue, that is an implicit recognition that
:35:28. > :35:31.there is a disagreement over it? In fact it was the Japanese Prime
:35:32. > :35:36.Minister who shut the door of dialogue between China and Japan. He
:35:37. > :35:41.overturned the fundamental foundations of our two countries.
:35:42. > :35:47.How would you expect China to agree to talk to him when he refused to
:35:48. > :35:53.repent on the war crimes that the Japanese did to Chinese people. This
:35:54. > :35:58.is not only the case for China. Korean President has also refused to
:35:59. > :36:04.meet the Japanese Prime Minister because of his behaviour on history
:36:05. > :36:09.issues. Thank you very much indeed. Now, doubtless it won't have escaped
:36:10. > :36:13.your notice that this is Men's Fashion Week in London. All sorts of
:36:14. > :36:16.figures and various degrees of beliefs are tossed around to
:36:17. > :36:20.demonstrate how important the fashion business is to the British
:36:21. > :36:29.economy. For the rest it is an opportunity to ask in tones of "who
:36:30. > :36:32.on earth would wear this stuff"! Someone who would is Nimrod Kamer,
:36:33. > :36:37.we asked him to tell us what he found interesting this year.
:36:38. > :36:44.I'm a fashionable man because my socks are yellow, my socks are
:36:45. > :36:51.knitted and my tie is pink. This is Men's Fashion Week, my guide! When
:36:52. > :36:57.you meet a fashionista always compliment them and say you look
:36:58. > :37:01.ridiculously fab and "fabosh. You look ridiculously fab, any
:37:02. > :37:12.interesting socks, all black? All black, my underwear is white. Got to
:37:13. > :37:21.keep it a little spicy. Live long and proper. FOMO Fear of missing
:37:22. > :37:30.out. YOLT You only live twist, James Bond. In this magazine, Zachary
:37:31. > :37:33.Ching. Selfridges. The only way to get on in life is come early and sit
:37:34. > :37:38.next to the celebrities you know will be sitting right here! Do you
:37:39. > :37:45.mind if I just pick a card out and sit instead of them to sit next to
:37:46. > :37:59.celebrity friends. During the show? Yeah Not exactly. Are you going on
:38:00. > :38:07.the catwalk in a few minutes? Is this like a nice sexy outfit for
:38:08. > :38:15.Men's Fashion Week? Love it! That's lovely Thank you. It is the same as
:38:16. > :38:39.the thing, the theme, this is the theme. Yes it is. #mensfashionweek.
:38:40. > :38:43.I'm going to get inside. After the show ended I went down to see the
:38:44. > :38:59.next collection, when disaster struck. There is an accident, an
:39:00. > :39:04.accident. What happened is during Oliver Spencer show a pipe broke
:39:05. > :39:09.lose so all the water. The delay gave me a chance to accidentally
:39:10. > :39:16.bump into fashion heavyweights. What do you do day-to-day? I model and
:39:17. > :39:22.I'm an ambassador for LCM. Oh yeah, I think they mentioned you as one of
:39:23. > :39:33.the top models, you are not Gandhi. I am David Gandy, yes! . The show
:39:34. > :39:41.got back on track, and garish socks were on display, "ridic". Can I see
:39:42. > :39:45.your socks? A Christmas present from my wife, all I wanted was socks and
:39:46. > :39:57.a wallet, nice clothes that fit, that is all you want. Shall we do a
:39:58. > :40:03.quick selfie and a humble selfie! Any tips for myself, I'm not
:40:04. > :40:08.sexually defined, a-sexual. Tidy this bit, I like that you have tried
:40:09. > :40:11.to accessorise, if I was you, I would get the bottom half, change
:40:12. > :40:18.the tie, this is nice but I would probably change that. The jacket is
:40:19. > :40:25.nice as well. You look great, man. My final piece of advice f you see
:40:26. > :40:29.designer gloats unattended YOLT! The man has great future on this
:40:30. > :40:36.programme. A court in Cairo adjourned the trial of the ousted
:40:37. > :40:44.President Mohammed Morsi until February. He's facing murder
:40:45. > :40:49.charges. The event that people hoped would change a huge country in the
:40:50. > :40:56.in the rob world to democracy has not brought. A heart surgeon saw the
:40:57. > :41:02.need and opportunity for satire, he began broadcasting a show from his
:41:03. > :41:07.back room on YouTube, it soon had an enormous audience and broadcast on
:41:08. > :41:12.mainstream TV. He has won awards and been on shows like the Daily Show
:41:13. > :41:17.with Jon Stewart. I spoke to him from Cairo, I asked him if he
:41:18. > :41:22.thought it was harder to do satire? It is harder to do satire for the
:41:23. > :41:29.sole reason that it is a little bit sentence out there. There have been
:41:30. > :41:35.families that have, there have been family feuds and people, and
:41:36. > :41:40.divorces and even families disowning their own children because of
:41:41. > :41:44.political differences. So it is no wonder that maybe comedy will not be
:41:45. > :41:48.welcomed right now. I think it is more social than anything else.
:41:49. > :41:54.There are people who say sometimes things get too serious for satire.
:41:55. > :41:58.Well yes, it is very difficult to carry on your show and make people
:41:59. > :42:05.smile when there is too much tension, too much violence and too
:42:06. > :42:09.much panic in the air. I think people, to accept satire they need
:42:10. > :42:15.to be relaxed. If there is a mood of panic and anger it makes you
:42:16. > :42:20.accepting logically, let alone satire, a very difficult task. Was
:42:21. > :42:26.it easier to do satire when you had President Morsi in power, would it
:42:27. > :42:35.have been easier under Mubarak or someone? I think under Mubarak that
:42:36. > :42:42.door was not even there. Under the Military Council and after it with
:42:43. > :42:47.Morsi that door was open and ajar, it was still difficult under the
:42:48. > :42:52.Muslim Brotherhood with different kind of difficulties, or different
:42:53. > :42:58.levels of difficulties. Now, you know, there is a lot of powers at
:42:59. > :43:02.hand, and I think people are going more and more restless and tense
:43:03. > :43:06.about what is happening. That is the main difficulty, the main challenge
:43:07. > :43:15.we are facing is how to make people laugh and smile. What do you think
:43:16. > :43:21.your job is? My job is to make people accept criticism with a more
:43:22. > :43:27.relaxed mood. To hopefully tell people that it is OK to make fun of
:43:28. > :43:31.ourselves, it is not a bad thing to make fun of the Government even if
:43:32. > :43:38.we are on the same side, because it is a much nicer way for freedom of
:43:39. > :43:42.expression than throwing Molotov cocktails at each other. It could,
:43:43. > :43:45.couldn't it, encourage a very bleak view of what is happening
:43:46. > :43:51.politically in your country or any other country where a satirist is at
:43:52. > :43:57.work. You know, first of all, I have to say that things in Cairo is not
:43:58. > :44:01.that bad. You know in the news they bring only the clashes, people still
:44:02. > :44:05.go to work, we still go to cafes and restaurants and cinemas. Of course
:44:06. > :44:15.there is some turmoil in the streets, but you know life goes on
:44:16. > :44:19.and again I think the challenge that we have is bringing the smile to
:44:20. > :44:24.people. Because it is very difficult to tell people to smile and laugh
:44:25. > :44:28.about yourself and make money of yourself when they just want -- make
:44:29. > :44:33.fun of yourself when they just want you to be on their side
:44:34. > :44:38.unconditionally. Is it a smile based on base pair or jaundice or
:44:39. > :44:45.optimisim about the future? Well, it is a little bit of both, because if
:44:46. > :44:49.you can make people laugh about what they go through, that in itself is
:44:50. > :44:54.optimisim. It is reason enough to be an optimist, you know. But if there
:44:55. > :45:01.are certain people in the media, or certain people in the political
:45:02. > :45:06.scene that don't even want that to happen, that doesn't give a good
:45:07. > :45:10.outlook. So I think you need to continue to pound and press on that
:45:11. > :45:14.point that we need to make fun of everything. Even the things that we
:45:15. > :45:20.are worried about, that is a step forward. You are an optimist are
:45:21. > :45:25.you? Ha ha, I have to be an optimist, and you know, or else I
:45:26. > :45:31.couldn't, I would be a very sad soul in front of TV when the cameras
:45:32. > :45:37.roll. So I have to. Politically what do you think will happen in your
:45:38. > :45:41.country? This is a question for the ages, because for the last three
:45:42. > :45:44.years anything I have learned in my country is Egypt is quite
:45:45. > :45:48.unpredictable. I always say that we have been the soap opera of the
:45:49. > :45:52.world. There is always something dramatic happening in this country,
:45:53. > :45:55.you have a President, now you don't have a President, you have a
:45:56. > :46:00.political power, now it is gone. I mean we are very impressive. So I
:46:01. > :46:06.think we are going to continue to surprise the world and provide
:46:07. > :46:15.really good material for the news bulletins all over the world. Thank
:46:16. > :46:21.you very much. Thank you. Tomorrow morning's front pages now, the Times
:46:22. > :47:03.goes with the verdict in the Duggan case.
:47:04. > :47:32.That's all for tonight, Kirsty is here tomorrow, until then good
:47:33. > :47:33.night. Hello there, pretty wet end to