:00:08. > :00:14.A mood of "it seemed like a good idea at the time" has overtaken much
:00:15. > :00:18.of the Labour Party tonight on its plans to reform the British
:00:19. > :00:23.financial system by forcing the big banks to shed branches. It seemed
:00:24. > :00:28.such an easy target, yet tonight the party's come over all coy. Was this
:00:29. > :00:36.an idea which should really have stayed on the drawing board?
:00:37. > :00:38.We will explore how common relationships are between teachers
:00:39. > :00:43.and pupils. I had a crush on this guy so I was
:00:44. > :00:50.really flattered by the attention. And do you remember this? Dawn and
:00:51. > :00:55.as the sun breaks through the piercing chill of night outside, it
:00:56. > :01:00.lights up a biblical familiar anyone this place, say workers here, is the
:01:01. > :01:06.closest thing to hell on earth. Reports of the familiar anyone in
:01:07. > :01:11.Ethiopia certainly had an effect, is it possible that most of the time we
:01:12. > :01:22.are indifferent to television news reports of disasters abroad.
:01:23. > :01:27.No-one ever lost popularity by laying into bankers. Afters had
:01:28. > :01:31.attack on energy companies, Ed Miliband's latest Aunt Sally is said
:01:32. > :01:36.to be the five big banks whom he wants to cut down to size and expose
:01:37. > :01:40.to competition. True to form some of the bankers helped him out by
:01:41. > :01:44.apparently planning to give themselves big bonuses at the
:01:45. > :01:50.tax-payers' expense today. The circle that has to be squared is
:01:51. > :01:55.whether a bit of populisim can some how be reconciled to a well-run
:01:56. > :02:02.economy. Emily Maitlis told us a bit of this last night and is back with
:02:03. > :02:05.more now. Not a superhero but the Ed Miliband muscle is being flexed now,
:02:06. > :02:10.he has tried his hand with energy companies and parts of the press.
:02:11. > :02:15.This week the leader of the opposition will use anies new year's
:02:16. > :02:20.speech to talk about radical reform for the banks. Last night we heard
:02:21. > :02:25.about plans to break them up, by maybe capping their market share. It
:02:26. > :02:29.is to stop the domination of the big five names and let more competition
:02:30. > :02:34.in. It is a test of Ed Miliband, he's showing courage to take on
:02:35. > :02:37.entrenched interests, this being the latest one. I think there is
:02:38. > :02:42.considerable political support among the broad population who don't have
:02:43. > :02:45.much that is good to say about their banks. I think there is a political
:02:46. > :02:51.opportunity here which is linked to an economic need. We need a less
:02:52. > :02:59.concentrated banking industry. The five leading banks, Lloyd's, RBS,
:03:00. > :03:03.HSBC, Barclays and Santander, have an 85% share of the personal current
:03:04. > :03:07.account market. Four of them, everyone but Santander, have 78% of
:03:08. > :03:12.the business market. In the savings, however, it is different. The five
:03:13. > :03:15.largest firms account for 63%. In other words it is quite easy for
:03:16. > :03:19.banks to argue that their market share is not always consistent, but
:03:20. > :03:23.a cap would necessarily be pretty arbitary. Even before his speech is
:03:24. > :03:28.out the proposal is already met with, shall we call it scepticisim.
:03:29. > :03:33.The opposition are proposing specific market shares on specific
:03:34. > :03:42.banks, has that ever been tried in any other country? Just breaking up
:03:43. > :03:49.an institution doesn't necessarily create a viable or a more intensive
:03:50. > :03:51.competitive structure, so relevant competition authorities need to look
:03:52. > :03:55.at that. I make the general point that it is not just about one
:03:56. > :04:00.aspect, you need to look at the entire business model. On Friday Ed
:04:01. > :04:03.Miliband will tell us the brand-new competition and markets authority
:04:04. > :04:08.will investigate whether there is inadequate competition between banks
:04:09. > :04:14.and hint at a selling off of some parts of each bank, that is the plan
:04:15. > :04:17.at least. The idea of bank being told to sell off branches may be
:04:18. > :04:20.ringing alarm bells in some quarters. Don't forget under the
:04:21. > :04:25.last Labour Government, when Lloyd's took over HBOS, it was told by the
:04:26. > :04:31.EU to shed some 630 branches. There were very few takers. The buyer
:04:32. > :04:36.Lloyd's chose was the Co-Op, a bank we now know had a massive financial
:04:37. > :04:41.black hole. It is incredibly difficult, as we have seen, to force
:04:42. > :04:45.banks to divest, even when they want to. We have seen in the case of
:04:46. > :04:50.Lloyd's and RBS. The process of actually spinning off part of your
:04:51. > :04:55.banking operations is incredibly difficult, incredibly complex, and
:04:56. > :05:00.if you take branch, for example, in particular, if you want to slice out
:05:01. > :05:05.a portion of your branch operation, that technologically is incredibly
:05:06. > :05:09.difficult. One of Britain's most high-profile bankers told me it was
:05:10. > :05:14.a very bad idea for politicians to step in and try to dictate market
:05:15. > :05:19.share. They point to success stories, newcomers like Santander,
:05:20. > :05:24.who have managed to increase competition, and they say the aim
:05:25. > :05:31.should be to get down the barriers, rather than imposing dictate from
:05:32. > :05:34.unhigh. It is not just coming from the corners you would expect, the
:05:35. > :05:38.bankers themselves. Some of it seems to be coming from within. The
:05:39. > :05:41.interesting dynamic emerging here is not so much the one between Labour
:05:42. > :05:46.and the Conservatives, but the one between new Labour and whatever we
:05:47. > :05:50.might call this. One figure from the Blair era told me "I'm sick and
:05:51. > :05:54.tired of this populist nonsense, we should just let the banks with
:05:55. > :06:00.banks". Clearly picking fights with business is dangerous territory, but
:06:01. > :06:05.perhaps Ed Miliband has calculated if you pick the fights with the bits
:06:06. > :06:09.of business he might call "predators", then the public don't
:06:10. > :06:14.really mind. One area to strike a chord, the perennial problem of the
:06:15. > :06:20.bankers' bonus. It is something that won't happen until 2015. Ed Miliband
:06:21. > :06:26.asked the PM if he would block any attempt by the Royal Bank of
:06:27. > :06:31.Scotland of paying bonuses double the average of bankers' salary. If
:06:32. > :06:38.there is any attempt to pay a bonus bill, any proposals for that we will
:06:39. > :06:42.veto it. I'm not asking about increases in pay and bonus, I'm
:06:43. > :06:45.asking a very simple question, I'm asking a simple question about the
:06:46. > :06:52.proposal that is expected to come forward from RBS which is to pay
:06:53. > :06:59.more than 100% bonuses on pay. If he's not asking me about the overall
:07:00. > :07:03.pay and bonuses at RBS, why on earth isn't he, he should be. Listen
:07:04. > :07:07.carefully, a bullet dodge there, the Prime Minister commit to an overall
:07:08. > :07:12.cap at RBS, but ignores one fact, the number of bankers at RBS has
:07:13. > :07:16.fallen by some 40,000, could it be that those who are left are actually
:07:17. > :07:21.getting paid more? Perhaps Ed won the bonus round in PMQs today, but
:07:22. > :07:25.his big test still lies ahead on Friday. Who knows what last-minute
:07:26. > :07:29.readjustments to the speech are going on now. Don't forget all
:07:30. > :07:34.politicians know how perilous it is to be quoted on what you have said
:07:35. > :07:37.in the past. The leader in the opposition has said what Hollande is
:07:38. > :07:49.doing in France I want do in Britain! Tricky one that, afterall,
:07:50. > :07:55.Ed, breaking up is hard to do. Ge Now the Labour peer, Lord McFall,
:07:56. > :08:00.was a member of the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards,
:08:01. > :08:04.Wheeler is a bank analyst at Mediobanca. How would the
:08:05. > :08:09.realignment doing? Meaning disinvestment. Realignment of the
:08:10. > :08:13.banking system so you strip big banks of branches? When this
:08:14. > :08:22.Government came into power in 2010, it was charged with divesting 632
:08:23. > :08:26.branches of Lloyd's, and 316 branches of royal bank of Scotland.
:08:27. > :08:29.Five years later nothing has happened, therefore there is less
:08:30. > :08:33.competition in the sector. One of the issues that the parliamentary
:08:34. > :08:37.commission focussed on very much was the size of banks. And we were
:08:38. > :08:42.convinced that too big to fail is still to be solved. But more
:08:43. > :08:46.importantly too big to manage has still to be resolved. Therefore,
:08:47. > :08:54.size is really important in banks. So we have to find a way of reducing
:08:55. > :08:59.size of banks. What happened with the coalition with the banking is
:09:00. > :09:03.they took their foot off the accelerator, left it to Lloyd's,
:09:04. > :09:07.RBS, cosy discussions at the EU and nothing happened at all. If we are
:09:08. > :09:11.going to disinvest, and going to continue that process, we need to
:09:12. > :09:16.have an implementation strategy for that to happen. Could that work?
:09:17. > :09:20.Well it is very difficult, as Lord McFall said about getting the
:09:21. > :09:26.branches sold. But I think the point he has missed is TSB, the Lloyd's
:09:27. > :09:29.branch, will be floated this year, Williams and Glynns, the Lloyd's
:09:30. > :09:33.branches will be floated next year. There was no buyers except the Co-Op
:09:34. > :09:39.and we know that story. We have virgin money coming to the market.
:09:40. > :09:43.We have Metro bank increasing its network, Tesco's and Sainsbury's and
:09:44. > :09:49.Marks Spencers, this is just in the retail sector, not talking about
:09:50. > :09:52.the specialist SME lenders. Competition is coming to the market?
:09:53. > :09:56.Competition is coming to the market. You can't say they haven't sold
:09:57. > :10:02.branches. You are still going to have bank concentration. Listen to
:10:03. > :10:06.people like Andy Halden and Adair Turner, a chairman of the Financial
:10:07. > :10:13.Services Authority, listen to the former governor, Lord King. We have
:10:14. > :10:15.got to ensure that we have diversification in banking. That is
:10:16. > :10:21.the big issue. He has just told you though will happen? You have still
:10:22. > :10:24.got the banking there. It is scheduled to happen this year. It
:10:25. > :10:28.was scheduled to happen five years ago and it hasn't happened. The
:10:29. > :10:34.market has changed and the economy is better. I took the comments very
:10:35. > :10:39.seriously, the now chief economist at Goldman Sachs, or whatever. When
:10:40. > :10:41.he was freelancing and on the Monetary Policy Committee, he said
:10:42. > :10:44.remember the half-life in banking is three years. We have to have a
:10:45. > :10:49.policy and the politicians have to have a policy to ensure that we get
:10:50. > :10:55.change. That's why the issues that have been raised so far with the
:10:56. > :10:58.leaks with the Ed Miliband report are quite good. This is a
:10:59. > :11:03.generational issue and we need to ensure we get the change. You said
:11:04. > :11:08.it is a generational issue, it harks back to the generation in the 1960s
:11:09. > :11:12.in many people's eyes? In what way? The idea that some how a Labour
:11:13. > :11:18.Party can start coming into power and mucking around in a markets in a
:11:19. > :11:23.way it believes? With how are we mucking about, the coalition coming
:11:24. > :11:27.in 2010 and it wasn't mucking about. Give us a break! I would like to say
:11:28. > :11:33.something if it is possible, I know I have a politician, as an analyst
:11:34. > :11:37.I... Stop special pleading, get on with it! These branches were not
:11:38. > :11:41.sold because the economy was not looking as an economy you wanted to
:11:42. > :11:44.invest in bank branches. The good news is people think it is more
:11:45. > :11:47.attractive, the stock markets are stronger and we can get the
:11:48. > :11:51.businesses into the market. We need more competition but it is coming to
:11:52. > :11:55.the market. I think going through, let's just take one other statistic,
:11:56. > :12:00.if we add Nationwide into the five big banks you will see since 2009
:12:01. > :12:06.their share of deposit, a very important number, of those big banks
:12:07. > :12:09.has gone up to 73%. People feel comfortable putting money with big
:12:10. > :12:13.banks and they have shown that in the way the deposits have shifted.
:12:14. > :12:19.Ed Miliband has become rather boy about this plan, we will see how
:12:20. > :12:31.intact it is on Friday. Do you get the impression this is making the
:12:32. > :12:36.Labour Party look it is an anti-business party. Someone who is
:12:37. > :12:40.sitting in the equity markets that is a yes, we want parties committed
:12:41. > :12:44.to business and growing business. Something I would like Mr Ed
:12:45. > :12:48.Miliband to answer on Friday, we are expecting the Government to sell
:12:49. > :12:51.another possibly ?7 billion of Lloyd share in March or April this year,
:12:52. > :12:58.and he's just going to possibly come out with a competition inquiry which
:12:59. > :13:02.will undoubtedly hang over the share price, which means we the tax-payers
:13:03. > :13:08.may get less for our shares. The timing I'm concerned about it, it
:13:09. > :13:11.seems unnecessary. This is an extension of the parliamentary
:13:12. > :13:14.committee. We were saying it there had to be change and we were charged
:13:15. > :13:19.with looking at the standards and culture in the banking industry.
:13:20. > :13:23.Unanimously we agreed, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Nigel
:13:24. > :13:26.Lawson, Labour Party people, we said it was a culture that was rotten and
:13:27. > :13:30.standards that were low. We have to change that and for the long-term.
:13:31. > :13:34.This is just what the parliamentary commission has been asking for. What
:13:35. > :13:39.we have to do, Chris, is to ensure that there is a coming together of
:13:40. > :13:46.the politicians and people in the financial services industry. And if
:13:47. > :13:50.they were alert and up to it, instead of its here you would have
:13:51. > :13:54.chief executives of banks. If you phoned for them it would be a
:13:55. > :13:58.returned call. I'm sorry to say when you phone the Labour Party you can't
:13:59. > :14:03.get a party spokesman on the policy? That is the speech on Friday. You
:14:04. > :14:07.wouldn't talk to you when you got the leak last night. I wonder where
:14:08. > :14:13.that could have come from! I was in the cinema when I get a text from
:14:14. > :14:22.Newsnight and wisely I kept looking at the film! I hope it was The Wolf
:14:23. > :14:26.of Wall Street. Dawn and as the sun breaks through the chill of night on
:14:27. > :14:31.the plane, it lights up a biblical familiar anyone, now in the 20th
:14:32. > :14:37.century. Has the news made us indifferent to suffering in other
:14:38. > :14:41.countries. In the last five years at least 950 teachers and other school
:14:42. > :14:45.staff have been accused of having a relationship with a pupil. That
:14:46. > :14:51.figure comes from the Freedom of Information request made by Radio
:14:52. > :14:57.1's Newsbeat Programme to local authorities. One children's group
:14:58. > :15:04.says it is not surprised. But some teachers' unions say the claims are
:15:05. > :15:12.unsubstantiated. A teacher arrived when I was in year nine. So I was
:15:13. > :15:19.about 13 at that time. He was very dynamic, you know. Interesting
:15:20. > :15:24.teacher, who took a lot of interest in me. Ella was groomed by her
:15:25. > :15:30.teacher who changed her name and her voice to protect her identity. You
:15:31. > :15:37.know I had a crush on this guy, so I was really flattered by the
:15:38. > :15:45.attention and you know I was really excited that someone was singling me
:15:46. > :15:50.out and thinking I was special and stuff. She says it was when she
:15:51. > :15:54.began taking the teacher's subject at GCSE that he would often ask her
:15:55. > :15:59.to stay behind, and on one occasion he kissed her. Very quickly it
:16:00. > :16:09.turned into something that wasn't what I wanted, it wasn't comfortable
:16:10. > :16:15.with and things. And I ju remember thinking, I don't want to have sex
:16:16. > :16:21.with you. I don't want to do this. I said to him I'm not ready, I don't
:16:22. > :16:29.want to. I'm not comfortable and he just sort of ignored it and that was
:16:30. > :16:35.it, basically. And I remember after we had sex for the first time I
:16:36. > :16:43.remember walking home and just feeling so incredibly alone. Because
:16:44. > :16:47.I was in pain internally from what he had done. Ella says it took years
:16:48. > :16:57.before she found the confidence to go to the police. He was in charges
:16:58. > :17:01.related to me, he was found guilty of indecent assault, buggery and
:17:02. > :17:04.rape. When it comes to sexual misconduct between teachers and
:17:05. > :17:09.pupils there are no reliable figures. But new information
:17:10. > :17:13.obtained by Radio 1's Newsbeat Programme suggests at least around
:17:14. > :17:16.1,000 members of school staff have been accused in the last five years.
:17:17. > :17:19.Local authorities were asked how many staff were suspended,
:17:20. > :17:23.disciplined or dismissed after being accused of having a sexual
:17:24. > :17:28.relationship with a student. More than half of councils in the UK
:17:29. > :17:33.returned figures showing there had been at least 959 cases in state
:17:34. > :17:39.schools. Teaching unions say while cases like Ella's do happen, only a
:17:40. > :17:43.small number of sexual misconduct claims are substantiated. Those
:17:44. > :17:47.preparing to go into the profession here at Roehampton University in
:17:48. > :17:53.south-west London say the risk of false claims is a concern. There is
:17:54. > :17:58.lots of sort of hints and tips that we're given for things such as when
:17:59. > :18:02.you're supporting a child, or they are distressed, don't hug them from
:18:03. > :18:05.the front, make sure you are protected from the front, always
:18:06. > :18:09.from the side so there is nothing sexual about it, if anyone were to
:18:10. > :18:15.see it to observe it. There is lots of things like that. But it is such
:18:16. > :18:19.a shame. Is there a reason why you decided to go into primary school
:18:20. > :18:23.rather than secondary school? I just want to teach, at secondary I feel
:18:24. > :18:27.there are more barriers to education, kids being sexualised and
:18:28. > :18:31.drugs and hormones and puberty and all that, they get in the way.
:18:32. > :18:36.Primary they are little sponges, it is so much, it is easier, I
:18:37. > :18:41.consider, to teach children of that age than it would be children of
:18:42. > :18:45.secondary school ages. Is it fair to say you have thought about the risks
:18:46. > :18:50.of false claims against you? Absolutely. Like you say, rightly or
:18:51. > :18:58.wrongly again, I thought as a male it might be more, I might be more in
:18:59. > :19:03.danger of it than a female might. We have spoken to one teacher who was
:19:04. > :19:07.accused of groping schoolgirls. He says after confronting a pupil with
:19:08. > :19:11.an offensive weapon in a classroom, the group of girls made up the
:19:12. > :19:16.claims. It became apparent during a court case that they had colluded.
:19:17. > :19:23.He was found not guilty of all charges but still lost his job. I'm
:19:24. > :19:31.pretty sure there was an element of revenge in the malillusionious
:19:32. > :19:35.aspect of the all -- malicious allegations they made. I was
:19:36. > :19:37.straight away and the school was supposed to undertaken a
:19:38. > :19:41.investigation. They didn't, they left the majority of it to the
:19:42. > :19:46.police. Psychologically it is a huge impact. Them a pact, it makes you
:19:47. > :19:55.want to stay indoors, it makes you want to hide away from society. I
:19:56. > :19:59.have had suicidal thoughts. But the medication I was put on by the
:20:00. > :20:03.doctor eventually took some of those away. Luckily I'm still here.
:20:04. > :20:06.Financially I have lost my home. I have been homeless for a while and I
:20:07. > :20:15.have been virtually ruined by the process. He says he struggled for
:20:16. > :20:19.ten years to get back into the profession. Since 2001 it has been
:20:20. > :20:23.illegal for an adult in a position of trust to have sex for an
:20:24. > :20:26.under-18-year-old they are responsible for, even though the age
:20:27. > :20:29.of consent is 16. Child abuse experts say there is no grey area
:20:30. > :20:35.when it comes to a relationship between a teacher and a pupil.
:20:36. > :20:39.Children develop infatuations and crutches on staff members, that is
:20:40. > :20:42.how it has ever been. Staff members need to be prepared for that and
:20:43. > :20:47.equipped for dealing with that. They need to know who they should talk to
:20:48. > :20:50.and how to conduct themselves appropriately. Bottom line the staff
:20:51. > :20:55.member has a professional boundary to maintain. For Ella, she says she
:20:56. > :21:01.still struggles to sleep because of the abuse she suffered. It meant
:21:02. > :21:09.that I had an incredibly lonely addless sense, and Earl -- addless
:21:10. > :21:13.sense, and early adulthood, I didn't have the experiences other people
:21:14. > :21:18.had, and it felt like it poured guilt and shame inside me that
:21:19. > :21:28.stayed for an incredibly long time and stuff I still badle with on a
:21:29. > :21:34.daily basis. John Brown is from the NSPCC, and Mary Bousted head the
:21:35. > :21:37.Association of Teachers and Lecturers. Two very different cases
:21:38. > :21:45.there. Do you think the balance is roughly in the right place? It very
:21:46. > :21:57.much depends on the school and whether the school has a good policy
:21:58. > :22:02.for dealing with allegations of sexual abuse. And whether the head
:22:03. > :22:07.can go a good investigation and see if -- can do a good investigation
:22:08. > :22:11.and see if the evidence can add up. Or whether the police are called, if
:22:12. > :22:15.the police are called that is very damaging for the teacher. Many head
:22:16. > :22:19.teachers would run away from making that kind of judgment and refer it
:22:20. > :22:24.immediately to the police? The Government guidelines says the
:22:25. > :22:28.school loose to do an investigation and see if the case stacks up. Many
:22:29. > :22:33.head teachers are afraid of doing that and getting it wrong. We don't
:22:34. > :22:35.believe there is enough training or support for schools on this. How
:22:36. > :22:38.does it look from your side of the offence? We think there is still
:22:39. > :22:43.some way to go before the balance is right. Too many children are still
:22:44. > :22:47.not listened to, too many children are still not believed. We only need
:22:48. > :22:52.to look at the research undertaken at the NSPCC, underattracten
:22:53. > :23:00.worldwide in terms of the huge gap between the actual prevalence of
:23:01. > :23:13.child sexual abuse and those who talk about it and those identified
:23:14. > :23:15.and prosecuted a huge gaprms of the huge gap between the actual
:23:16. > :23:18.prevalence of child sexual abuse and those who talk about it and those
:23:19. > :23:20.identified and prosecuted a huge gap. These figures from the local
:23:21. > :23:29.authorities, difficult figures to deal with, but you reckon it is an
:23:30. > :23:36.underestimate? Given Given we know that there are few witnesses only
:23:37. > :23:39.the abuser and the child, it is about power, it is an estimate.
:23:40. > :23:44.There is a lot to do to understand it. Both of these outcomes are
:23:45. > :23:49.undesirable, a child being abused and a teacher being unjustly
:23:50. > :23:57.accused. You two talk to each other and decide. How do you make progress
:23:58. > :24:01.on something like this? It is incredibly difficult, the nature of
:24:02. > :24:07.sexual abuse is it is basically one person's story against another. If a
:24:08. > :24:12.child suffers sexual abuse and it is not believed that is terrible.
:24:13. > :24:17.Equally it is terrible if a teacher was accused. And is innocent. It is
:24:18. > :24:21.quite interesting, the cases which they say 950 case, it would be
:24:22. > :24:26.interesting to know how many of those went to court and where
:24:27. > :24:31.teachers were found guilty of what they had been alleged to have
:24:32. > :24:35.happened. The figures are difficult to obtain. It is very difficult to
:24:36. > :24:39.deal with. It is a very sensitive subject, but we can't have teachers
:24:40. > :24:43.afraid of teaching and being in the classroom. You must agree it is a
:24:44. > :24:47.very bad state of affair where male teachers are put off the profession
:24:48. > :24:50.or going into certain kinds of schools because of this fear? No-one
:24:51. > :24:58.wants that to happen, absolutely not. It is really important that we
:24:59. > :25:03.encourage men to come into teaching, to come to teach in primary school
:25:04. > :25:07.and secondary school as well. It is incredibly important. There is a lot
:25:08. > :25:11.that has been done and a lot more than we can do in terms of getting
:25:12. > :25:15.the culture right in schools, in terms of making sure safeguarding is
:25:16. > :25:18.right in schools, so teachers know what to do, if they are in a
:25:19. > :25:22.situation where an allegation is made. That the fabric of schools,
:25:23. > :25:28.the situational prevention is in place as well. Classrooms and
:25:29. > :25:32.schools for designs, the chances of teachers being in situations with
:25:33. > :25:38.children where allegations are being made and not monitored are minimised
:25:39. > :25:41.as much as possible. Those things are key. For children it is
:25:42. > :25:45.important that an early age, from the age of five upwards through
:25:46. > :25:48.personal, social and health education, and sex and relationship
:25:49. > :25:54.education in school and that sort of thing, children are encouraged to
:25:55. > :25:58.understand about the sexual abuse, about understanding what the impacts
:25:59. > :26:01.of that could be, and importantly who they can talk to if something
:26:02. > :26:05.has happened to them. Whatever precautions are in place, you a
:26:06. > :26:16.always going to have schoolgirl crutches or the reverse? -- --
:26:17. > :26:22.crushes and the rest of it? It is, and that is why we need training at
:26:23. > :26:26.prequalification and post-qualifications, and teachers do
:26:27. > :26:30.get into situations where there is a lot of hormones going around, and
:26:31. > :26:37.pupils will develop a crush on teachers. I have worked in schools
:26:38. > :26:40.and seen young men, good looking young men hounded by young girls.
:26:41. > :26:44.They are in a difficult position and it is difficult to deal with that,
:26:45. > :26:50.schools need good policies and teachers need better training in how
:26:51. > :26:54.to conduct themselves. How to, when that happens to them how to deal
:26:55. > :26:57.with that, and also what to do. They would often need support and help
:26:58. > :27:01.when that happens. I don't think there is enough of that at the
:27:02. > :27:03.moment really for both in terms of continuing professional development
:27:04. > :27:07.for teachers and pre-training for teachers. The other thing that is
:27:08. > :27:11.important is the ChildLine school service that can come in and work
:27:12. > :27:14.with children from a young age to encourage them to recognise the
:27:15. > :27:21.signs, and who they can talk to if they have worries and concerns.
:27:22. > :27:24.Aid agencies have talked about something called "compassion
:27:25. > :27:28.fatigue". The idea that people cannot feel sympathy for the victims
:27:29. > :27:32.of war or natural disaster indefinitely. But it is still an
:27:33. > :27:35.article of faith among news reporters if they can only find way
:27:36. > :27:40.of bringing the reality of suffering home to television audiences here,
:27:41. > :27:45.then those audiences may feel sufficiently moved to demand that
:27:46. > :27:49.something be done. Yet an academic report released tomorrow suggests
:27:50. > :27:54.that is not true. That people who are told in the news about awful
:27:55. > :27:58.things happening abroad, actually often remain unmoved. In a moment
:27:59. > :28:03.I'm going to ask the award-winning Sky News frontline reporter, Alex
:28:04. > :28:13.Crawford, what she feels about that discovery. First we report. Iconic
:28:14. > :28:17.images of conflict and disaster. These simple shots help shape public
:28:18. > :28:25.opinion. Maybe even changing the course of the war or forcing a
:28:26. > :28:30.Government to act. We begin with the growing desperation and devastation
:28:31. > :28:34.following the supertyphoon in the Philippines... Today we live in a
:28:35. > :28:38.world of 24-hour news, breaking from any part of the world. Good
:28:39. > :28:42.afternoon, welcome to BBC News, we start with the breaking news from
:28:43. > :28:47.Syria... How hard is it to feel empathy with and sympathy for people
:28:48. > :28:50.thousands of miles away. The research suggests it is getting more
:28:51. > :28:54.difficult. The viewing patterns of 100 people were studied over three
:28:55. > :28:58.months, those who watched short news items were found to be particularly
:28:59. > :29:03.indifferent to suffering in other countries. News items only ever
:29:04. > :29:07.offer us a particular kind of story about suffering in other countries.
:29:08. > :29:10.About who is suffering, why they are suffering and what people are doing
:29:11. > :29:14.to resolve it. That's the story you get. You will get it for a few days
:29:15. > :29:18.and then it will leave the news bulletin. If you want to understand
:29:19. > :29:22.more about the long-term consequence, the wider implications
:29:23. > :29:25.about how it has affected people's lives. Then you need to move outside
:29:26. > :29:30.the news. Younger male viewers in the study were less likely to care.
:29:31. > :29:35.After watching footage of the terror takes in Mumbai, one said "do you
:29:36. > :29:39.remember the image of that hotel? I saw it and thought I'd love to stay
:29:40. > :29:44.there, it looked so amazing". Another said "it's so far away that
:29:45. > :29:51.you tend to distance yourself from it, I do any way". Dawn and as the
:29:52. > :29:55.sun breaks through the chill of night, it lights up a biblical
:29:56. > :29:58.familiar anyone That is not to say television news can't make a
:29:59. > :30:02.difference. Michael Burke's reports from Ethiopia were rebroadcast by
:30:03. > :30:11.400 stations worldwide, going viral before the term even existed. We can
:30:12. > :30:16.see the celebrations you were talking about a short time ago. And
:30:17. > :30:21.more recently Sky's Alex Crawford brought TV viewers the first live
:30:22. > :30:26.pictures of rebels heading victoriously into Tripoli. The
:30:27. > :30:30.authors of the study claim international news coverage
:30:31. > :30:34.struggles to draw an emotional response. On the street she drew
:30:35. > :30:37.more pictures... . Longer documentaries do better, they can
:30:38. > :30:44.paint a more complex picture and have more time to hear from those
:30:45. > :30:50.affected. We have the right to live in freedom. As this graph shows, the
:30:51. > :30:54.amount of coverage given over to international affairs on the main
:30:55. > :30:59.networks fell sharply between 2005 and 2010, partly as factual
:31:00. > :31:05.programmes were shifted to digital stations. It matters on all sorts of
:31:06. > :31:08.levels. Most obvious is the basis for intervening in countries like
:31:09. > :31:10.Afghanistan and Syria has been made on the fact that people are
:31:11. > :31:15.suffering and we should do something about it. We almost fired missiles
:31:16. > :31:19.into Syria a few months ago because of the suffering of other people.
:31:20. > :31:23.And unless we have a full, rich understanding of what's going on and
:31:24. > :31:27.why it is going on and what can be done about it, then we may be making
:31:28. > :31:31.the wrong decisions. But those who have worked in the news industry say
:31:32. > :31:35.the shift to digital doesn't necessarily mean dumbing down. I
:31:36. > :31:42.don't think you can dismiss the other channels. I have just judged
:31:43. > :31:47.some awards, Al-Jazeera, and that is in every home, and it is
:31:48. > :31:50.high-quality documentaries. This is in addition to what the main
:31:51. > :31:53.channels are doing. I know viewers have to try harder to find the
:31:54. > :31:59.channels but it is worth the effort in my opinion. The question is will
:32:00. > :32:04.most viewers make the effort, or has digital technology made it easier
:32:05. > :32:08.for some people to switch off. Here to discuss that research is Kelvin
:32:09. > :32:13.MacKenzie, best known for editing The Sun. And Sky News's Africa-based
:32:14. > :32:18.special correspondent, Alex Crawford. This research rather
:32:19. > :32:21.suggests you are wasting your time, doesn't it? I'm not sure that
:32:22. > :32:26.research is absolutely accurate, to be honest. Certainly my own evidence
:32:27. > :32:29.is that people do engage, they do connect and they are very, very
:32:30. > :32:35.interested in what is going on around the world. You are not going
:32:36. > :32:39.to have life-changing scenarios like Michael Burke's report of Ethiopia
:32:40. > :32:45.every day. But he is a perfect example of how people were
:32:46. > :32:50.absolutely engaged in hundreds of thousands around the world. I think
:32:51. > :32:55.foreign correspondents, that is the challenge around the world. To get
:32:56. > :32:59.people to respond to get people to understand and to get people to
:33:00. > :33:07.engage in it. What are you some sort of social worker? No, no. Not at
:33:08. > :33:09.all. But these have implications on our daily lives in Britain.
:33:10. > :33:13.Everything that is happening around the world will come back to our
:33:14. > :33:17.doorstep. So what is happening in Libya and Syria and Afghanistan and
:33:18. > :33:21.Pakistan does and is having an impact on our daily lives in
:33:22. > :33:26.Britain. And surely we need to know more about what is happening there.
:33:27. > :33:29.A good CV for your company to send you to exotic places around the
:33:30. > :33:42.world. But the reality of it all is that most people actually even in --
:33:43. > :33:46.erodite audience for Newsnight have no idea where south Sudan is and
:33:47. > :33:54.whether it split from north sudden sap, and yet two days ago the ten.00
:33:55. > :33:59.news was leading on it -- 10.00 news was leading on it. Look at the
:34:00. > :34:04.fighting between the Sunnis and Shias, they have been fighting for
:34:05. > :34:10.1,000 years, what is the point of covering it. Look at Channel 4's
:34:11. > :34:17.fantastic documentary about Benefits Street, why not look into our own
:34:18. > :34:21.back yard where they are getting audiences of seven million for what
:34:22. > :34:24.is happening in our own country and looking at the overseas coverage,
:34:25. > :34:30.costing various news organisations a fortune and you could count the
:34:31. > :34:46.audience on one hand. People don't want, they understand eat --
:34:47. > :34:53.Ethiopia and the rest is many years ago. They won't send people out to
:34:54. > :35:00.local places to get the stories it is overseas. Justify your existence?
:35:01. > :35:06.I don't think "stick it up your junta" is really covering news. Good
:35:07. > :35:10.headline though. Your coverage of Hillsborough is very representative
:35:11. > :35:15.of good home coverage. With all due respect I'm not sure whether you are
:35:16. > :35:19.particularly qualified to talk about foreign news. I don't know what
:35:20. > :35:24.Hillsborough has do with it. There is a serious point here, you and I
:35:25. > :35:28.both know why some news editors choose to put certain kinds of
:35:29. > :35:33.foreign coverage on television. And it is to do with the fact that it
:35:34. > :35:38.appears to be exciting, there is lots of "bang, bang", there are a
:35:39. > :35:42.few dead bodies around, they think that is a lot more exciting than
:35:43. > :35:50.anything filmed in this country? Well that's not true. It is. I think
:35:51. > :35:56.certainly male editors maybe seduced by "bang, bang" but that is very, it
:35:57. > :35:59.is becoming history now. There are many more females who are making
:36:00. > :36:03.these decisions and times are changing. I just came back from
:36:04. > :36:07.Central African Republic this morning, that is a country which
:36:08. > :36:12.most people would find difficult to pinpoint on a map. Yet I did one
:36:13. > :36:16.report, what I try to do, and what many foreign correspondents try to
:36:17. > :36:20.do is try to empathise with the local people, they are right on the
:36:21. > :36:25.ground, and they try to pick stories which will resonate with people who
:36:26. > :36:30.are a long way away. I did a story about a pregnant woman giving birth
:36:31. > :36:36.in horrific circumstances and bearing in mind we don't get any
:36:37. > :36:42.response on most stories, home or foreign, I'm saying, I got a lot of
:36:43. > :36:48.response on that one where they saw this poor woman. The central
:36:49. > :36:52.African, what on earth has the Central African Republic got to do
:36:53. > :36:56.with our lives? What is it that you are going to reveal that people from
:36:57. > :37:00.different tribes hate each other and they are trying to kill each other
:37:01. > :37:04.and in some case, bizarrely trying to eat each other, that hasn't
:37:05. > :37:08.changed now. Are you trying to tell me you reporting it in some rather
:37:09. > :37:12.curious way is bringing it to a wider audience in which we can solve
:37:13. > :37:16.this more easily. There is no sign of that, they have been at each
:37:17. > :37:22.other's throats now for as long as I can remember. Alex go on? First of
:37:23. > :37:26.all Mr Kensington Palace Gardens McKenzie where do you draw the line,
:37:27. > :37:30.is north of England foreign, Scotland, Ireland? I do think it is
:37:31. > :37:35.not your fault, you will accept going there, I quite understand it,
:37:36. > :37:39.it is up to editors to say actually the audience don't want this stuff,
:37:40. > :37:42.we will stick it at the end, rather than leaving it off and boring
:37:43. > :37:48.everyone to death and leading to enormously small audiences. In
:37:49. > :37:54.essence your coverage is killing TV news? But everything that is
:37:55. > :37:58.happening around the world has an impact. For instance the killing of
:37:59. > :38:03.the soldier, Lee Rigby in Britain started in Kenya, a long way away.
:38:04. > :38:09.Don't you think people want to know a bit about that. A woman giving
:38:10. > :38:14.birth in the Central African Republic, what has that to do with
:38:15. > :38:17.anything? I think that is about being empathetic human beings, are
:38:18. > :38:23.we just going to turn the other cheek when there is a type of
:38:24. > :38:26.genocide going on? Listen you know I don't think people are happy with
:38:27. > :38:32.hearing that there are hundreds of thousands of people being killed in
:38:33. > :38:36.a small poverty-striken country and they just want to turn away and turn
:38:37. > :38:43.the other cheek and not know about that. They engage with Ethiopia.
:38:44. > :38:48.This research argues against you, ordinary people are saying we think
:38:49. > :38:58.there is propaganda, and actually we can't take any more. In a sense they
:38:59. > :39:00.have got sort of war fatigue and deprivation fatigue. I don't believe
:39:01. > :39:05.just by doing yards and yards of television, because you happen to be
:39:06. > :39:13.in some place that nobody could find in a light mist is a reason to keep
:39:14. > :39:19.you in work. That is very unfair and also not true. Everyone in this
:39:20. > :39:22.economic state that we are in around the world is having to cut their
:39:23. > :39:29.cloths according to what they have got. And that means deciding very,
:39:30. > :39:32.certainly in most companies and most television channels, around the
:39:33. > :39:36.world, they are having to cut back. And that makes them decide very,
:39:37. > :39:40.very carefully where to go and what to do. Good news for the audience,
:39:41. > :39:43.bad news for journalists in South Africa. I think we have had quite
:39:44. > :39:49.enough from you. Thanks Alex, see you. We can't make a case against
:39:50. > :39:52.you, but we're satisfied there's no smoke without fire. The leadership
:39:53. > :40:01.of the Liberal Democrats found itself in a right muddle today as it
:40:02. > :40:12.prepared to welcome back into its inner counsels a man who was said to
:40:13. > :40:17.have groped activists. The women who complained by the politician Chris
:40:18. > :40:21.Rennard think the party is being pathetic. Until last year you might
:40:22. > :40:27.have been forgiven for not knowing the name of Lord Rennard, chief
:40:28. > :40:30.executive of the Lib Dem party until 2009, he was the brains behind the
:40:31. > :40:36.election strategy. He was propelled into the headlines last February
:40:37. > :40:39.when four women made allegations of sexual harassment against him. The
:40:40. > :40:43.police launched an investigation, which ultimately concluded that he
:40:44. > :40:49.would face no criminal charges. Today which got the conclusion of a
:40:50. > :40:53.Lib Dem inquiry into Lord Rennard's behaviour, conducted by Alastair
:40:54. > :40:58.Webster QC, Mr Webster found there was a less than 50% chance the
:40:59. > :41:01.allegations could be sufficiently proven and therefore that Lord
:41:02. > :41:12.Rennard would face no disciplinary action. Evidently feeling vindicated
:41:13. > :41:17.Lord Rennard said in a statement. Nick Clegg didn't seem to see it in
:41:18. > :41:20.the same way. I want everyone to be treated with respect in the Liberal
:41:21. > :41:24.Democrats, that is why it is right that Chris Rennard has been asked in
:41:25. > :41:28.this report to apologise, to reflect on his behaviour and why he won't be
:41:29. > :41:34.playing any role in my general election plans for the campaign in
:41:35. > :41:38.2015. With us now is Bridget Harris, a former special adviser to Nick
:41:39. > :41:42.Clegg, and one of the women who has made the allegations against Lord
:41:43. > :41:47.Rennard. What did you feel when you heard what Nick Clegg had to say? I
:41:48. > :41:52.spoke to Nick earlier on this evening personally. He called me. He
:41:53. > :41:57.apologised. I take that completely sincerely. He apologised for what?
:41:58. > :42:00.He apologised for the fact that the party has found itself in a
:42:01. > :42:13.situation where its rules have been found to be completely over the top
:42:14. > :42:17.and by Byzantine and unable to deal with the allegations against Lord
:42:18. > :42:23.Rennard. When he says he would like Lord Rennard to apologise, would you
:42:24. > :42:27.accept such an apology? Absolutely. I have been living, if you like,
:42:28. > :42:32.with my knowledge about this man for the last ten years. So you know I
:42:33. > :42:36.have made my peace with the fact that he was allowed to get away with
:42:37. > :42:40.it over a number of years. Can I just say, the reason why I came out
:42:41. > :42:44.and joined the other women in the original Channel 4 investigation was
:42:45. > :42:49.because Rennard was basically creeping his way back into all of
:42:50. > :42:53.the offices and the groups of power. For example he was being invited to
:42:54. > :43:00.mentor young candidates in the party. It was at that point that a
:43:01. > :43:10.year ago my colleagues Alison Smith and Allie Goldsworthy. Clearly
:43:11. > :43:15.internal procedures have failed, we need to blow the whistle. Now the
:43:16. > :43:21.guy is being invited back into the inner circles of the party? It is
:43:22. > :43:24.ludicrous. I heard Tim Farron speak earlier, they are flabbergasted and
:43:25. > :43:27.Nick Clegg said this as well, they are in a situation where the
:43:28. > :43:31.allegations and evidence have now been thoroughly tested and have
:43:32. > :43:34.actually found on credible. Nobody is suggesting that they think they
:43:35. > :43:39.are lying. An opinion has been expressed that some people find them
:43:40. > :43:43.plausible but the balance of judgment on the part first of all of
:43:44. > :43:46.the prosecuting authorities, and secondly of the internal party
:43:47. > :43:52.investigation was that the burden of proof was inadequate? The burden of
:43:53. > :43:56.proof in a criminal case is it has to go beyond a reasonable doubt. I
:43:57. > :43:59.think that is perfectly acceptable when you are about to take away
:44:00. > :44:03.somebody's liberty, we know in a civil liberty argument, it would
:44:04. > :44:06.suggest, if you are going to put somebody in prison you have to be
:44:07. > :44:10.beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty. We are talking about
:44:11. > :44:13.this man's membership card of a voluntary political party. You are
:44:14. > :44:18.talking about blackening a man's name? I think he has blackened his
:44:19. > :44:21.own name. It is not me and the other women's responsibility for how he
:44:22. > :44:25.chose to behave over the last ten years. It is his decision. But your
:44:26. > :44:29.own party didn't demonstrate that he did behave as you say he behaved?
:44:30. > :44:34.What the party is saying is that in order for an ordinary member to be
:44:35. > :44:39.kicked out of the party, for them to take away their membership, you need
:44:40. > :44:44.to be able to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that he has taken
:44:45. > :44:47.the party into dis. This is an absurd level of proof that is
:44:48. > :44:50.required. That may be, but those are the rules of your party? And Nick
:44:51. > :44:56.Clegg today has said that he will seek to change those rules. To make
:44:57. > :44:59.it easier to have some sort of kangaroo court? There is no kangaroo
:45:00. > :45:05.court, there is no reason why you can't have a civil burden of proof
:45:06. > :45:09.in the circumstances. A QC reviewed all the same evidence as the police
:45:10. > :45:12.reviewed, and the QC recommended to the party today that he thought the
:45:13. > :45:16.evidence was credible and he believed us and he thought Lord
:45:17. > :45:19.Rennard owed us all an apology. Lord Rennard at the moment is claiming
:45:20. > :45:22.that he is not going to give us an apology. Supposing you don't get it
:45:23. > :45:27.and supposing that he's not ejected from the party. He won't be,
:45:28. > :45:31.according to their rules. Will you eject yourself from the party? I
:45:32. > :45:34.have absolutely said today, if Lord Rennard isn't going to leave the
:45:35. > :45:40.party I will. I don't want to be part of a party that adheres to
:45:41. > :45:45.tribal truckures that protects its -- structures that protects its own
:45:46. > :45:49.offenders. I want to be part of a political movement and not this
:45:50. > :45:53.party. I have said today I will leave the Liberal Democrats. That is
:45:54. > :45:57.all for now you may have seen some unexpected footage we showed a few
:45:58. > :46:02.weeks ago, curtesy of the BFI, predicting London in colour and
:46:03. > :46:05.filmed in 1927. A contemporary film maker, Simon Smith, has now
:46:06. > :46:09.replicated the shots in modern London. The remarkable thing is how
:46:10. > :46:11.little has changed, apart, of course, from the curse of traffic.
:46:12. > :47:14.Good night. Hello, another spell of rain is
:47:15. > :47:16.spreading east