:00:09. > :00:14.He certainly is not a household name, but the Liberal Democrats
:00:15. > :00:18.failure to deal effectively with allegations against the party's
:00:19. > :00:22.former chief executive are making it a laughing stock.
:00:23. > :00:27.Here is a quick reminder of how the party's organised. Is it any
:00:28. > :00:33.surprise it is in such a mess? Better to have a party of democrats
:00:34. > :00:37.than dictators the Lib Dems tell me. When your entire leadership
:00:38. > :00:41.structure looks like spaghetti, perhaps it is time for change.
:00:42. > :00:47.First Iran was invited to the UN peace talks, then it got disinvited.
:00:48. > :00:52.If he's so crucial to peace in Syria, where the clumsy
:00:53. > :00:56.backpeddling. And... Ladies and gentlemen it looks
:00:57. > :01:01.like we have a signal, looks like Rosetta has indeed woken up.
:01:02. > :01:07.So the 500 million miles wake-up call works. Will Rosetta's space
:01:08. > :01:17.mission tell us anything useful? The presenter of the Sky At Night
:01:18. > :01:23.believes so, at least. Well, unless you have the misfortune
:01:24. > :01:28.to be a Liberal Democrat, the sorry saga of Lord Rennard, the party
:01:29. > :01:33.inquiry and the unissued apology is the gift that goes on giving. Sleazy
:01:34. > :01:37.behaviour in an organisation built on piety, inept procedures, confused
:01:38. > :01:44.leadership, embarrassment and bad feeling within the party.
:01:45. > :01:48.Shaweden fraud everywhere else, Lord Rennard issued a very long statement
:01:49. > :01:51.saying among other things that he hadn't even been allowed to see the
:01:52. > :01:55.report into accusations that he sexually harassed fellow party
:01:56. > :02:01.members. Is it any way to run a party. When I meet people around the
:02:02. > :02:06.country it is obvious that many of you have strong and mixed
:02:07. > :02:11.reactions... . Nick Clegg did know how to say sorry, he did it in a
:02:12. > :02:17.video which some kind soul set to music lest anyone forget the lyrics.
:02:18. > :02:20.# I'm sorry # I'm sorry
:02:21. > :02:25.This morning he called on the party's former chief executive, Lord
:02:26. > :02:32.Rennard, to do the same, not for failing on promises, but of claims
:02:33. > :02:36.several activists have made of unwanted sexual advances.
:02:37. > :02:40.Today we looked everywhere for Lord Rennard, to no avail. As the day
:02:41. > :02:44.progressed it appeared an apology was not forth coming. Earlier this
:02:45. > :02:48.afternoon his suspension from the party was announced, spending a
:02:49. > :02:53.further inquiry into his -- pending a further inquiry into his past
:02:54. > :03:01.actions. He released a lengthy statement. He repeated his denial of
:03:02. > :03:06.the distress for the women. And said he regretted any embarrassment or
:03:07. > :03:11.hurt or upset he caused. But he did not want to apologise fearing future
:03:12. > :03:15.civil action. Plus he said he didn't believe people should be forced to
:03:16. > :03:26.say things they do not mean. Support from that from friends in
:03:27. > :03:33.the Lords at the weekend. Comparing Nick Clegg of this. The North Korean
:03:34. > :03:37.judicial system looking benign. Some have spotted a problem with the
:03:38. > :03:43.analogy. The North Korean hierarchy looks like this and the structure of
:03:44. > :03:47.the Lib Dems' hierarchy looks like this. Nick Clegg, curiously up here
:03:48. > :03:51.in the left top corner has said it is unacceptable for Lord Rennard to
:03:52. > :03:55.carry on in the Lords you without a fulsome apology. Lord Rennard who
:03:56. > :03:58.sits on the Lords and place on the Federal Policy Committee, has made
:03:59. > :04:02.it clear he won't. Under the Lib Dem party structure Nick Clegg can't
:04:03. > :04:06.remove the whip, only the Lib Dem leader of the Lords can. Even then
:04:07. > :04:11.he can be overturned by a vote from peers. Now Lord Rennard's suspension
:04:12. > :04:15.today was at the hands of the regional parties commission which
:04:16. > :04:20.doesn't seem to be on here. Everyone got that? Shaun Kemp, the Deputy
:04:21. > :04:24.Prime Minister's former special adviser, tells me the slightly
:04:25. > :04:30.arcane structure has served them well in the past, on coalition
:04:31. > :04:33.negotiations for example. But... It strikes me there is another side to
:04:34. > :04:36.the coin, that is the good thing of the level of accountability and
:04:37. > :04:39.democracy. Where you have a situation where the
:04:40. > :04:42.democratically-elected leader of the party can't even remove the whip
:04:43. > :04:45.from a member of his own party in the House of Lords without
:04:46. > :04:47.potentionally facing a vote in the House of Lords from the unelected
:04:48. > :04:50.colleagues of that person, then I think we do have to ask some
:04:51. > :04:55.questions about is that structure set up in the right way? Is it set
:04:56. > :05:02.up in a way that is good practice or politics? Would the answer to that
:05:03. > :05:06.question be, questionings definitely not"? I think there has to be a way
:05:07. > :05:11.that a party can preserve what is good about the checks and balances
:05:12. > :05:15.and democracy. But we have to let the party leader, elected by all
:05:16. > :05:19.members, to owe cruellyly take quick decisions when in the best interests
:05:20. > :05:24.of the party. Close friends of Lord Rennard say he sees himself as a
:05:25. > :05:29.hero of the party, and feels persecuted by what he would call "an
:05:30. > :05:32.unfair line of attack". He talks in his statement of a smear campaign
:05:33. > :05:37.against him. Interestingly he thanks his friends in the Lords for their
:05:38. > :05:41.support, he suggests they should let the matter rest. An indication that
:05:42. > :05:46.their swords have not always been helpful to him? I'm not sure anyone
:05:47. > :05:50.has done the process any favour over the weekend. We should have had a
:05:51. > :05:52.period of calm reflection. The disciplinary procedure had been gone
:05:53. > :05:55.through, recommendations had been made. And time should have been
:05:56. > :06:02.taken to allow those recommendations to be implemented. Rather than trial
:06:03. > :06:06.by media. There is, of course, a very human
:06:07. > :06:09.face to this strategy, the man who brought the Liberal Democrats
:06:10. > :06:13.victory after victory for decade, now says he's considering legal
:06:14. > :06:17.action against his own party. In North Korea they faced down that
:06:18. > :06:23.behaviour with wild dogs. The Liberal Democrats, well as you have
:06:24. > :06:27.heard, they prefer another inquiry. With us now from Norwich is Bridget
:06:28. > :06:31.hare risks one of the women who complained about Lord Rennard, also
:06:32. > :06:35.here is Lord Greaves, a senior Lib Dem member of the House of Lords. We
:06:36. > :06:39.asked for someone to speak on behalf of the Lib Dem leadership, but it
:06:40. > :06:47.took them nine hours and at the end of that time they were unable to
:06:48. > :06:51.offer us anyone Bridge Bridget Harris, Lord Rennard
:06:52. > :06:55.says he can't issue an apology for fear of you and others might sue?
:06:56. > :06:58.Obviously I can't answer that question, it clearly depends on all
:06:59. > :07:02.the circumstances. Yes you can, if he said sorry would you sue? What I
:07:03. > :07:06.could say is I'm happy to accept on a personal level his apology. If
:07:07. > :07:10.he's willing to take responsibility for his actions. But the real
:07:11. > :07:14.absent. He can't say sorry because it is admitting something for which
:07:15. > :07:19.you, you say, or imply, clearly might sue him? Well of course, there
:07:20. > :07:23.we are. That is the conundrum that we face. We have never had a proper
:07:24. > :07:27.disciplinary procedure or investigation that has been able to
:07:28. > :07:30.question or investigate or indeed even cross-examine the evidence that
:07:31. > :07:34.both myself and the other women and also Lord Rennard has put forward.
:07:35. > :07:37.All we have had is investigations to have found them to be credible, that
:07:38. > :07:42.what myself and the other women have said is believable. Nobody over the
:07:43. > :07:46.last 11 months has questioned anything we have said. The problem
:07:47. > :07:50.is the Liberal Democrats manifestly failed over a period of ten years to
:07:51. > :07:53.investigate these allegations and complaints, in the way that any
:07:54. > :07:58.other normal organisation or work place discrimination procedure would
:07:59. > :08:01.have done. Lord Greaves, how much damage is this doing to the party?
:08:02. > :08:07.It is doing a lot of damage. It is getting worse by the day. It was bad
:08:08. > :08:12.enough yesterday, it last got worse with everything that's happened
:08:13. > :08:17.today. Quite frankly, the party has got to take action to stop it
:08:18. > :08:22.getting worse and then start getting better. It has tried to do that by
:08:23. > :08:26.telling Lord Rennard he should apologise? The problem is, I don't
:08:27. > :08:29.want to go into the details of all of that, which have been analysed
:08:30. > :08:35.hugely in the media. But the real problem, I think, is that the
:08:36. > :08:42.leadership of the party, broadly defined, not just Nick Clegg, have
:08:43. > :08:46.taken action which actually has rebounded and made matters worse.
:08:47. > :08:50.That's incompetent leadership. I think the advice that they have been
:08:51. > :08:55.getting, for example, when the report was first issued it was
:08:56. > :08:58.obviously that there had to be a news management strategy by people
:08:59. > :09:01.in the party. It was a difficult issue. That should have been a joint
:09:02. > :09:05.strategy between the leadership and Lord Rennard. They failed hopelessly
:09:06. > :09:10.to do that. Everything that has happened has created more stress in
:09:11. > :09:14.the party, more uproar in different parts of the party. So what we have
:09:15. > :09:18.now got is two different factions, if you like in the party, two groups
:09:19. > :09:21.of people who are approaching this from completely different angles and
:09:22. > :09:25.who increasingly are falling out with each other. They are simply
:09:26. > :09:32.chucking missiles at each other and now we're being told that Lord
:09:33. > :09:35.Rennard may be taking legal action, bridge get Harris says she may be
:09:36. > :09:42.taking legal action. This is a nightmare. The decision today to
:09:43. > :09:47.suspend Lord Rennard and have a new disciplinary procedure is likely
:09:48. > :09:54.take several months. There is a whole series of timebombs being laid
:09:55. > :09:59.for the future where legal action, legal action, a new inquiry that
:10:00. > :10:02.will report perhaps a few weeks, or very soon before the next round of
:10:03. > :10:08.elections. It is nonsense. What the party really has to do now is to get
:10:09. > :10:13.a grip on this and set up a reconciliation and mediation system
:10:14. > :10:22.to bring the two sides together, start them talking and work towards
:10:23. > :10:25.whatever levels of agreement that can be reached. That is a very
:10:26. > :10:41.Liberal Democrat solution? It is not, on a much grander scale it
:10:42. > :10:44.happened in South Africa. It got Ian Paisley sitting down with people he
:10:45. > :10:48.would never have. That is the process that now should take place.
:10:49. > :10:53.Bridget do you worry about the damage this is doing to your party?
:10:54. > :10:56.Yes, obviously in many ways. But I think that is one of the core
:10:57. > :11:00.problems. The way that Lord Greaves described it, I think the colloquial
:11:01. > :11:06.expression would be "we don't wash our dirty linen in public". As he
:11:07. > :11:09.has rightly said it causes a lot of damage, it is horrible to see all
:11:10. > :11:13.the infighting, why not all shut up and deal with it behind closed
:11:14. > :11:17.doors. That is the very tactic they took over ten years to try to deal
:11:18. > :11:21.with. If they tried to deal with the allegations the women were making
:11:22. > :11:24.behind closed doors, through informal processes, trying to get
:11:25. > :11:28.everyone to informally and quietly and privately say sorry and work it
:11:29. > :11:32.all out between them and find some redress. The consequence of that was
:11:33. > :11:36.nobody in the party actually in recent times were aware of the fact
:11:37. > :11:40.that these galeses surrounded Lord Rennard. He was becoming --
:11:41. > :11:45.allegations surrounded Lord Rennard, and he was becoming more and more
:11:46. > :11:49.involved in the party and being invited to gender-balanced weekends
:11:50. > :11:54.for the party. That was worrying the women. When you don't deal with the
:11:55. > :11:57.process according to fair and straight forward rules. This is all
:11:58. > :12:00.in the past, we can argue about the past over ten years and over the
:12:01. > :12:05.past year, we can argue about the last few days. The problem is we are
:12:06. > :12:09.where we are now, and the party is in a dreadful state. Therefore we
:12:10. > :12:14.have to take it from where we are now and set up a process, which
:12:15. > :12:17.would be inclusive, which would be completely inclusive, but where the
:12:18. > :12:21.different people and the different sides of the party start to work
:12:22. > :12:26.together again. We are all supposed to be liberal, Liberal Democrats. At
:12:27. > :12:29.the moment increasingly we are all falling out with the people who are
:12:30. > :12:35.supposed to be our colleagues and our comrades in arms. Just engage
:12:36. > :12:38.with that Bridget Harris? I would like to, directly. We are not all
:12:39. > :12:42.friends and colleagues when actually one of us is accused of sexual
:12:43. > :12:45.harassment, that is something where myself and other women are perfectly
:12:46. > :12:50.entitled to take forward a complaint. I don't see why party
:12:51. > :12:52.loyalty should come into it. I'm perfectly loyal to Liberal Democrats
:12:53. > :12:56.and the policies and the coalition and the Government. I'm perfectly
:12:57. > :13:01.loyal to the liberal cause. Why what I don't see why I'm responsible for
:13:02. > :13:05.or loyal to is when somebody absolutely inappropriately tries to
:13:06. > :13:12.take advantage of their power position or nor do I believe it is
:13:13. > :13:16.very fair for other people. We have heard you saying this over again and
:13:17. > :13:19.we are where we are, we understand the arguments. I'm not talking about
:13:20. > :13:25.Lord Rennard in particular, I'm talking about the fact that people I
:13:26. > :13:31.have worked with and campaigned with thought well up the 50 years are
:13:32. > :13:36.falling out in droves and are getting very angry with each other
:13:37. > :13:40.in a way which unless it is solved and sorted out, which will take some
:13:41. > :13:46.time, but unless it is sorted out it is going to produce fault lines and
:13:47. > :13:51.schisms in the party which will last for years. Thank you both very much.
:13:52. > :14:09.I will have to cut you off there. Thank you very much. Coming up:
:14:10. > :14:15.Last night the UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-Moon, invited Iran to talks
:14:16. > :14:19.supposed to move Syria towards an end of its Civil War. When some of
:14:20. > :14:23.the Syrian opposition discovered that he had failed to get Iran's
:14:24. > :14:27.agreement to what's already been determined, they developed cold
:14:28. > :14:31.feet. So the world's most senior public servant spent much of the day
:14:32. > :14:34.ducking and diving to avoid explaining how he had managed to
:14:35. > :14:39.make such a Horlicks of what is supposed to be such an important and
:14:40. > :14:42.carefully thought-through peace conference. Tonight? Tonight a
:14:43. > :14:48.little over an hour ago he withdrew the invitation to Iran.
:14:49. > :14:52.This is a real shambles isn't it? It looks like diplomatic attempt to
:14:53. > :14:58.bounce Iran into these talks, it has gone horribly wrong. When Ki-Moon
:14:59. > :15:01.announced this unexpectedly on Sunday night, there was an immediate
:15:02. > :15:05.reaction from the sane Syrian opposition group, and the Syrian
:15:06. > :15:09.national opposition, who said hang on, this wasn't what we agreed. Iran
:15:10. > :15:12.one of President Assad's Mainz backers. The same came out of the
:15:13. > :15:17.state department the following morning. What followed, as you said,
:15:18. > :15:23.was ducking and diving, and then this uninvited. At issue was the
:15:24. > :15:29.Geneva communique of 2012, which was the basis for these talks on Friday.
:15:30. > :15:33.Which essentially calls for a negotiated transition of power in
:15:34. > :15:39.Sirria. To western powers, US and Britain included, means without
:15:40. > :15:42.President Assad. It seems that Ban Ki-Moon thought he had an agreement
:15:43. > :15:47.from the Iranians that they would recognise that basis. It seems he
:15:48. > :15:50.was wrong. That led to this uninvite. The question is how many
:15:51. > :15:54.people were on board? I have spoken tonight to a senior US official who
:15:55. > :16:00.said the Americans were on board all the way until the Iranians did what
:16:01. > :16:04.seems to be an about-face. The talk seemed to be saved, the Syrian
:16:05. > :16:08.National Coalition which had to be strong armed into going say they are
:16:09. > :16:12.going now and it is a huge who blah to the United Nations -- blow to the
:16:13. > :16:15.United Nations. What next? The talks will happen but it is questionable
:16:16. > :16:20.whether we are closer or better off this evening after this Iranian
:16:21. > :16:26.invite and uninvite than we were before we happened. The man
:16:27. > :16:30.conducting the negotiations will be sitting in a room with one group of
:16:31. > :16:35.people who don't accept the premise of a negotiated transfer without
:16:36. > :16:39.President Assad, that is the Syrian Government. The other group of
:16:40. > :16:42.people who are the Syrian National Coalition who don't represent the
:16:43. > :16:45.fighters doing the war on the ground. Diplomats have been playing
:16:46. > :16:49.down expectations of what can come out of this. They are saying it is a
:16:50. > :16:56.start, the beginning of a process, what we might see best case
:16:57. > :17:02.scenario, some very small negotiated solutions to local ceasefires to get
:17:03. > :17:07.aid in. In a war that has produced much horror, there was further
:17:08. > :17:11.horror this evening? Yes, we saw a cachet of pictures. We can show you
:17:12. > :17:15.one of them now that you will almost certainly find disturbing. It is one
:17:16. > :17:21.of more than 50,000 images that have come out in a report tonight. The
:17:22. > :17:25.authors of the report say show systematic abuse and killing of
:17:26. > :17:30.detainees in Syria's jails. I should say the report was commissioned by
:17:31. > :17:33.Qatar, which is participant in the war, it is supporting some of the
:17:34. > :17:37.Syrian opposition groups. It has been put together by a London firm
:17:38. > :17:41.of lawyers. But it has also been showed to some very eminent
:17:42. > :17:47.international lawyers and some forensic experts. It shows mostly
:17:48. > :17:52.pictures of young men, emaciated, apparently starved to death, many of
:17:53. > :17:59.them, their bodies showing signs of torture, strangulation and the like.
:18:00. > :18:04.The report says they were taken by a military policeman working for the
:18:05. > :18:07.Syrian regime between March 2011, and right at the beginning of the
:18:08. > :18:10.protest and last August. The report's author said they have made
:18:11. > :18:14.them available to the United Nations and human rights groups and the
:18:15. > :18:18.lawyers who examined them say this brings up the possibility of human
:18:19. > :18:24.rights charges. But I think the emotional impact these pictures have
:18:25. > :18:30.make it possible, they might become a totemic emotional rallying cry for
:18:31. > :18:35.international opinion. Joining us from Washington is PJ Crawley,
:18:36. > :18:43.former US Secretary of State, with us is the former Editor in Chief of
:18:44. > :18:48.for Foreign Followcy Magazine. Let's talk a little bit about this
:18:49. > :18:54.invitation and withdrawal of invitation. It does look
:18:55. > :19:01.extraordinarily inept, doesn't it? I think what Ban Ki-Moon ultimately
:19:02. > :19:08.faced was two unresolvable situations under the current set of
:19:09. > :19:11.circumstances. I think it is any diplomatic process involving Syria,
:19:12. > :19:15.Iran has to be part of the process other it will try to undermine the
:19:16. > :19:20.process from outside. What he was forced to do today is avoid void the
:19:21. > :19:24.total collapse of the process before it began. He probably faced the
:19:25. > :19:27.Syrian opposition not showing up on Wednesday and not being prepared to
:19:28. > :19:35.sit down with the Syrian Government on Friday. Is this what happens when
:19:36. > :19:39.you try to incorporate a country like Iran in a process like this
:19:40. > :19:44.Geneva business, of trying to get a settlement in Syria? It is that, but
:19:45. > :19:47.more importantly it is another man festation of a trend where power is
:19:48. > :19:52.fragments and diffused, everybody has a little power, but nobody has
:19:53. > :19:56.the power to create a structure and the levers that makes things happen.
:19:57. > :20:01.The UN, we just saw what happened, the United States doesn't have all
:20:02. > :20:04.the power, not even the Saudi, Iran, no-one seems to have the power.
:20:05. > :20:11.Everyone has a little bit of power, no-one has the power to create the
:20:12. > :20:14.possibility of progress. Yet, presumably on the other hand, if you
:20:15. > :20:20.don't involve players like Iran, which has a very complicated agenda.
:20:21. > :20:23.A complicated role in that part of the world and elsewhere. If you
:20:24. > :20:28.don't engage them, you can't make any progress, can you? It is hard to
:20:29. > :20:32.imagine that you have a solution to the Syria situation without Iran
:20:33. > :20:38.being part of the conversation. And agreeing to some of the some of the
:20:39. > :20:42.terms. That is impossible. Statement the centre of these negotiations in
:20:43. > :20:45.Geneva is the idea of creating a transitional Government. That it is
:20:46. > :20:53.unacceptable to the Government and to the Iranians. Do you think it was
:20:54. > :21:04.wise to involve the Iranians overtly in these talks? That has been a
:21:05. > :21:07.source of disagreement for the United Nations, who wants Iran in at
:21:08. > :21:11.the start, and the United States who wants Iran in but only in certain
:21:12. > :21:16.circumstances. It just underscores as was said, the complex politics
:21:17. > :21:25.behind this. Everyone has a negative card, no-one has a solid hand that
:21:26. > :21:29.actually can make progress. Ultimately we don't have the
:21:30. > :21:34.conditions. Getting the process started is useful. Ultimately there
:21:35. > :21:40.has to be diplomatic solution, there can't be a military solution. It
:21:41. > :21:43.reminds me of Bosnia, we may well see years before the conditions come
:21:44. > :21:47.together that lead to diplomatic breakthrough. And getting this
:21:48. > :21:53.process started and trying to deal with some interim steps. How can you
:21:54. > :21:57.narrow the conflict? How can you create safe areas where you can
:21:58. > :22:02.deliver humanitarian assistance, then work the politics and ultimate
:22:03. > :22:05.diplomatic solution down the road, extraordinarily complex. In the end
:22:06. > :22:09.there are an awful lot of unshowns in all of this, aren't there? Yes,
:22:10. > :22:15.will the's not forget these negotiations and the role of Iran in
:22:16. > :22:22.these negotiations is going on at the same time where there is a
:22:23. > :22:25.larger negotiation concerning Iran's nuclear problem at this point for
:22:26. > :22:29.Iran the Mainz point is to get the economy back on stack. You know it
:22:30. > :22:33.has been devastated by sanctions, they are willing, they are making
:22:34. > :22:40.concessions, the Iranians have promised that they are going to move
:22:41. > :22:45.forward. As long as they get the sanctions lowered.
:22:46. > :22:48.But that was a process, the negotiations with Iran about their
:22:49. > :22:53.nuclear programme. It was conducted pretty quietly. From which suddenly
:22:54. > :22:58.a conclusion is declared to the world. It is unlike participation in
:22:59. > :23:02.a highly visited conference like the one in Geneva? We don't know if
:23:03. > :23:12.something like that w going on in the case of Syria. The problem with
:23:13. > :23:18.Syria is you have many more players. It is not just the two Mainz players
:23:19. > :23:22.and Iran the nuclear problem, the United States senior officers
:23:23. > :23:26.meeting with the Ukrainian. There is all sorts of players having a say
:23:27. > :23:31.son the matter. The problem is the situation is so fragments, power is
:23:32. > :23:35.so diffused and distressed it is hard to know who they are. Even who
:23:36. > :23:39.you talk to, even the members of the opposition in Syria who have been
:23:40. > :23:43.invited do not represent the whole spectrum of players in the
:23:44. > :23:46.opposition. There are some fighters there that are significant, that
:23:47. > :23:55.have power and fire power that are not part of the conversation. Is the
:23:56. > :24:01.United Nations the appropriate vehicle to be conducted these sorts
:24:02. > :24:08.of talks? I think it is the only vehicle that all the players can at
:24:09. > :24:12.least pay some attention to, or not dismiss lightly. Following up on
:24:13. > :24:21.what was said, I also think that the politics are not necessarily clear
:24:22. > :24:24.in Iran. Foreign ministers may well have given Ban Ki-Moon some
:24:25. > :24:29.assurance in private that it accepted the Geneva principle,
:24:30. > :24:32.including at least the idea of a muttal acceptable Government of
:24:33. > :24:36.transition. But reap today was unwilling to say that publicly, and
:24:37. > :24:42.there are all kinds of hardliners, from a public standpoint if Iran is
:24:43. > :24:47.unwilling to say it is at least open to an idea that Al-Assad has to step
:24:48. > :24:52.aside. That became a bridge too far not just for the UN or the United
:24:53. > :25:00.States. It puts it above the Syria issue in terms of importance, but a
:25:01. > :25:04.bridge too far for Iran itself. The distressing aspect of the
:25:05. > :25:08.diplomatic shenanigans, is upon them and a conclusion of a successful
:25:09. > :25:12.arangment to end the war, hang the lives of thousands of men, women and
:25:13. > :25:16.children. The Syrian Civil War has been a big test of President Obama's
:25:17. > :25:20.ability to act as international policeman. He hasn't emerged from
:25:21. > :25:28.that test covered in glory. We have been covering the Syrian Civil War
:25:29. > :25:31.against it began, this is the assessment.
:25:32. > :25:41.It is time for Al-Assad to get out of the way. The only way to bring
:25:42. > :25:48.stability and peace to Syria is for Al-Assad to step down. We We condemn
:25:49. > :25:56.this indiscriminate killing, it is further evidence that Al-Assad has
:25:57. > :26:00.to go. We sat by and did relatively nothing, despite what the
:26:01. > :26:04.administration may claim. The President for a perfectly
:26:05. > :26:09.understandable reason, really has wanted to keep this problem at arm's
:26:10. > :26:14.length. He really has wanted it to disappear.
:26:15. > :26:19.I have been crossing over this border into Syria for two-and-a-half
:26:20. > :26:24.years, and seen hundreds of refugee camps. What began as a largely
:26:25. > :26:29.peaceful process, has descended into an appalling stifle war. Killing
:26:30. > :26:34.more than 100,000 people and displacing millions. On the eve of
:26:35. > :26:38.the latest attempt to strike a peace deal, diplomacy is giving it another
:26:39. > :26:47.shot. There is little chance for optimisim. Despite their rhetoric,
:26:48. > :26:51.the US and others have failed to dislodge President Assad.
:26:52. > :27:01.August 2011, the uprising is five months old, under pressure to
:27:02. > :27:06.respond to Syria's crackdown on protestors, it is said Bashar
:27:07. > :27:10.Al-Assad must go. He draws a line on chemical weapons, June 201, the
:27:11. > :27:17.White House says the red line has been breached but no major response.
:27:18. > :27:22.Two months later a chemical attack in Damascus kills hundreds. Obama
:27:23. > :27:27.calls for parliament to vote for military action? The following month
:27:28. > :27:37.Syria agrees to decommissioning the weapons.
:27:38. > :27:45.When Barack Obama took office he wanted to reset the US relationship
:27:46. > :27:51.with the Islamic nations. He promised a new beginning, democratic
:27:52. > :27:59.change to the east. Syria broke the mould, its ethnic and regional
:28:00. > :28:02.aspects made things difficult. He had powerful allies and friends on
:28:03. > :28:08.the UN Security Council. Critics described a divided administration,
:28:09. > :28:16.led by a President whose focus was elsewhere. I don't think it was ever
:28:17. > :28:21.his intention that Syria would be in a humanitarian cat it is a
:28:22. > :28:29.troughity. -- catastrophe. It was never his intention that Al-Qaeda,
:28:30. > :28:34.of all things, should arise in the eastern part of the country. It was
:28:35. > :28:39.never his intention that Syria would be sliding inexorably into a
:28:40. > :28:46.peculiar form of state failure. But all of these are cons sequence,
:28:47. > :28:53.unintended as they may be of the policy that's been pursued for the
:28:54. > :28:58.last 33 months. What began as a peaceful protest
:28:59. > :29:01.movement was met with an iron fist. President Obama, Cameron and the
:29:02. > :29:07.French and German leaders all said Al-Assad must step aside. Sanctions
:29:08. > :29:11.were imposed, embassies closed, and limited aid for rebel fighters.
:29:12. > :29:15.Efforts to support the opposition pressure the Syrian regime and hold
:29:16. > :29:26.the violence, and produce few results on the ground. The rebels
:29:27. > :29:28.have now moved up because the Government's (gunfire) has been
:29:29. > :29:34.trying to push into this area. It is a very confused situation, we know
:29:35. > :29:40.there are snipers all around here. Because it is an urban area the
:29:41. > :29:42.sounds ring out, but you can't tell which direction they are actually
:29:43. > :29:47.coming from. When some in the administration
:29:48. > :29:51.wanted to give weapons to the rebels, President Obama was said to
:29:52. > :29:54.be disengaged. Worried that Ameri would become embroilled in the
:29:55. > :29:59.region again. The President, I do not believe
:30:00. > :30:02.understands the importance of American exceptionalism. I don't
:30:03. > :30:07.think he appreciates that if there is a vacuum, because of a withdrawal
:30:08. > :30:11.of American troops, and lack of leadership, that vacuum can be
:30:12. > :30:23.filled by very, very bad people who do not hold the standards and values
:30:24. > :30:26.of international conduct that we do. In foreign affairs he is persuaded
:30:27. > :30:30.that the United States needs to spend more sustained attention to
:30:31. > :30:40.Asia and China. Syria has not figured in his sense
:30:41. > :30:46.of priority, so he's really trying to keep the problem at arm's length
:30:47. > :30:49.and hopefully it would solve itself. Opposition groups supported by the
:30:50. > :30:53.west had little power on the ground, as the conflict intensified,
:30:54. > :30:59.increasingly radical fighters filled the vacuum, and the bloodshed
:31:00. > :31:02.escalated. This is a simply appalling situation, the doctors
:31:03. > :31:06.have tried to revive this young man and failed. He has just been
:31:07. > :31:15.pronounced dead. The situation inside here is one of unbelievable
:31:16. > :31:19.chaos. When hundreds were killed in a chemical take last August,
:31:20. > :31:27.President Obama blamed the Syrian Government and authorised military
:31:28. > :31:33.force. We had a long meeting with the President in the Oval office,
:31:34. > :31:36.and this was after the latest chemical and weapons attack by
:31:37. > :31:43.Bashar Al-Assad. He said he wanted to do three things, one degrade
:31:44. > :31:48.Bashar Al-Assad's chemical weapons capability. Increase support to the
:31:49. > :31:54.opposition and reverse the moment um on the battlefield -- the momentum
:31:55. > :32:00.on the battlefield against Bashar Al-Assad. We went and told the press
:32:01. > :32:04.what the President said. Never again did he mention those latter two. Did
:32:05. > :32:08.you detect the President was looking for a way out or alternative. Not
:32:09. > :32:13.just in the words he was using but the way he presented the arguments
:32:14. > :32:18.to you and senator Graham? I may not have thought he was looking for a
:32:19. > :32:25.way out. But I certainly detected a lack of enthusiasm. The President
:32:26. > :32:30.changed tack, asking a reluctant Congress to vote on military action.
:32:31. > :32:33.When Syria agreed to decommission its chemical weapons, strikes were
:32:34. > :32:38.put on hold and the vote called off. The President had to contend with a
:32:39. > :32:44.war-weary public and the White House believed it successfully contained
:32:45. > :32:48.President Assad and brought Damascus to the negotiating table. I spent
:32:49. > :32:53.the last two years travelling inside northern Syria and witnessed its
:32:54. > :32:58.dissent into chaos. What is in effect a failed state. Now critics
:32:59. > :33:11.of the administration would say that is partly result of the The the lack
:33:12. > :33:15.of engagment. We want to keep institutions intact and prevent a
:33:16. > :33:20.vacuum that is filled by forces in their own way could be as bad Assad
:33:21. > :33:23.Al-Assad. It is through negotiated transition. One interesting
:33:24. > :33:29.development that has a good side and a very bad side. The bad side is
:33:30. > :33:34.what you alluded to, which is the increasing prominence of extremist
:33:35. > :33:42.groups inside Sirria. They pose a danger today and a greater one in
:33:43. > :33:46.the future. Once What that has done is concentrate the minds outside of
:33:47. > :33:49.Syria. If the talks happened and America
:33:50. > :33:52.and Russia will have brought parts of the opposition and the Government
:33:53. > :33:56.of Syria together for the first time. That will be an achievement.
:33:57. > :34:00.For those fighting on the other side of the border, they won't be
:34:01. > :34:06.represented, and unlikely to be persuade by any deal. In effect the
:34:07. > :34:10.lack of a cohesive policy and the interference of outside powers has
:34:11. > :34:13.allowed the war and extremism to flourish, some fear it has
:34:14. > :34:19.diminished America's standing in the region. Crucially the bloodshed and
:34:20. > :34:25.chaos inside Syria are unlikely to abate.
:34:26. > :34:29.That was my guests, let's return to the pictures allegedly showing
:34:30. > :34:37.porture in Syria. We now have via Skype the barrister Jeffrey Knight,
:34:38. > :34:42.who prosecuted Slobodan Milosevic for the European war crimes tribal.
:34:43. > :34:47.What do you -- tribunal. What do you make of the pictures? The same as
:34:48. > :34:52.what I make of the evidence as a whole. The inquiry team presided
:34:53. > :35:05.over by Sir Desmond was asked to reconsider. We were asked to look at
:35:06. > :35:10.the reliability liability or owe reliability of -- the reliability of
:35:11. > :35:14.the evidence as if in court. We were asked if it might be acceptable in a
:35:15. > :35:24.court in support of certain kinds of allegations. The images which are a
:35:25. > :35:28.small selection of some 23,000 images that have already been
:35:29. > :35:35.reviewed by the scientists on the inquiry team and of themselves
:35:36. > :35:43.partly we understand of a similar 20,000 images, show some what
:35:44. > :35:49.systematic treatment of dead bodies that have about them recurring
:35:50. > :35:54.features of apparent starvation. Of being beaten, of being subject to
:35:55. > :36:04.ligatures, not hanging, but ligatures around the neck. Also some
:36:05. > :36:09.evidence of elect cushion. Electrocution. The patterns of
:36:10. > :36:14.markings on the body have been removed because of security and
:36:15. > :36:17.sensitivity to the family of the person who has died, show the
:36:18. > :36:25.particular Security Service that it has been said by the witness, who we
:36:26. > :36:31.found no reason to disbelieve, showed the Security Service of the
:36:32. > :36:34.concern that dealt with the execution of the person. Other
:36:35. > :36:39.markings on the body had been obscured for the same security and
:36:40. > :36:43.sensitivity reasons and might give the identity of the person. And of
:36:44. > :36:47.the faces of course that have been blanked out for reasons of the
:36:48. > :36:53.family sensitivity. Those features of bodies coming from
:36:54. > :37:05.detention centres and photographed in hospitals and according to the
:37:06. > :37:12.witness there after buried in some rural location. They are the sorts
:37:13. > :37:17.of systematic behaviour that point to not any local criminality but
:37:18. > :37:24.towards the systematic, and the widespread and systematic conduct of
:37:25. > :37:28.the officers of the state that would constitute a jury or panel of
:37:29. > :37:32.judges, to accept the evidence of crimes against humanity. Thank you
:37:33. > :37:38.very much indeed. Anyone who has ever had a teenager is familiar with
:37:39. > :37:41.the troublesome 11.00am wake-up call. It doesn't usually follow
:37:42. > :37:47.two-and-a-half years of sleep. On the other hand the resipant of the
:37:48. > :37:54.alarm call isn't usually 500 million miles away. More's the pity you
:37:55. > :37:59.might say. Officials at the space station were not sure that it would
:38:00. > :38:11.wake up after getting his alarm, but the shuttle, Rosetta, did wake up.
:38:12. > :38:18.All it needs to do is meet an as significant nation named 67 P, later
:38:19. > :38:32.this year. Earlier I spoke to Professor mark -- mark McCockrin.
:38:33. > :38:35.What was the feeling when you saw Rosetta switched on again? It is
:38:36. > :38:41.hard to describe the attention in the room at that time. There is not
:38:42. > :38:46.enou cliches, I don't think. The signal came a bit late, later than
:38:47. > :38:49.we anticipated. It was coming out, I was going to say a bolt out of the
:38:50. > :38:53.blue, it was more like a bolt out of the black. It was no context, it
:38:54. > :38:56.wasn't like we were handing somewhere or docking with a
:38:57. > :39:00.spacecraft. We were waiting, when the signal started building up on
:39:01. > :39:03.the screen. The sense of rebelief was astonishing. We are slightly
:39:04. > :39:08.reserved European, we looked around, do we hug and shout. We thought,
:39:09. > :39:15.yes, 20 years after the mission started we will have some release
:39:16. > :39:20.here. I don't want to rain on your parade, it implies you don't have
:39:21. > :39:25.confidence in your technology? We had actually tried it out before we
:39:26. > :39:30.went into hibernation. Where he We tried it out 31 months ago and a bit
:39:31. > :39:35.before that. We had a good idea how this was going to play out. But, it
:39:36. > :39:39.is the first time we have ever taken a spacecraft like this and cold
:39:40. > :39:43.soaked it out in the Solar System by Jupiter. There were some elements we
:39:44. > :39:48.are uncertain about, it could have come an hour or two hours later. And
:39:49. > :39:53.we wouldn't have been technically worried, but would have been biting
:39:54. > :40:02.our nails. I think we were probably 95% certain. I can say that in the
:40:03. > :40:10.full confidence of hindsight. Here now is Dr Chris Lintott, a
:40:11. > :40:15.cosmologyist and presenter of Sky At Night. It would have been
:40:16. > :40:20.embarrassing if it didn't wake up? It is, it is working, and it is good
:40:21. > :40:25.it is accepting back data about how he's doing. Didn't that look like a
:40:26. > :40:28.staged celebration? It is a very European celebration, this is how
:40:29. > :40:34.you tell it is not a NASA mission. You know the feeling of setting an
:40:35. > :40:37.alarm and waking up in the middle of the night and not certain it is
:40:38. > :40:42.going to go off. That is what I felt earlier today. For those working on
:40:43. > :40:46.the mission for 20 years that was a big moment. You mentioned 20 years,
:40:47. > :40:53.when the project was authorised, 1993. At that time it seemed a
:40:54. > :40:57.sensible mission, 20 years on is it still a sensible mission? It is rare
:40:58. > :41:04.in space science to do something never done before. This probe will
:41:05. > :41:09.ride alongside a comet, after it sling shots around and gives off
:41:10. > :41:13.water, gas and dust. We have never seen it happen before. We have flown
:41:14. > :41:18.past comments but never alongside one. The chance to see things that
:41:19. > :41:23.one hasn't before is very exciting. Let me put a penny-pinching
:41:24. > :41:29.question, of course you are very excited, how much money is spend on
:41:30. > :41:40.this? About are a billion euros, about the same of the # 80s as an
:41:41. > :41:44.information metaphor. Anyone will be glad to have that kind of money to
:41:45. > :41:50.blow on an enthusiasm? The money doesn't go to the comet, it is spent
:41:51. > :41:54.here on earth and goes to people and technology and industries throughout
:41:55. > :41:58.Europe, this is money well spent and we will get a fabulous ride out of
:41:59. > :42:02.it as a bonus. What is so exciting about going to a comet, we know it
:42:03. > :42:08.has water on it, we already know that? We do, but not whoa what type
:42:09. > :42:13.of water. There is a Serie that all the water of the earth, including
:42:14. > :42:17.this cup, came from comets. It will have come, we think, from comets
:42:18. > :42:24.just like the one Rosetta will chase. Rosetta will put a land on
:42:25. > :42:28.the comet and take a fresh sample left over from the Solar System and
:42:29. > :42:38.tell us whether earth's water did really come from space in this way.
:42:39. > :42:43.Isn't that common sense? We know it was volatile and hot, it had water
:42:44. > :42:47.in the early days, we think it evaporated. We are learning the
:42:48. > :42:57.story of our own planet and learning a history lesson for years. The
:42:58. > :43:02.Oxford Dictionary defines a cafe as a small restaurant selling light
:43:03. > :43:09.meals and drinks. If a new chain of coffee shops takes off, that
:43:10. > :43:16.definition will have to be big changes. There is no charge for
:43:17. > :43:21.coffee tea and biscuits, just the time you spend there.
:43:22. > :43:26.To a part of Shoreditch, where Greeks come after buying up other
:43:27. > :43:36.parts of London. You have to pass a fashion exam to get past the
:43:37. > :43:40.borders. Up two flights of stairs in East
:43:41. > :43:48.London. This is the happening new "joint" for your daily hit of Joe.
:43:49. > :43:55.First collect your carefully-coursed alarm clock. I'm no Fiona Bruce, but
:43:56. > :43:59.it is late 20th century, if I'm not mistake. The idea is you pay for the
:44:00. > :44:09.time you spend here, not what you eat or drink. This discreet visual
:44:10. > :44:13.aid will monitor how much of your license fee we are ploughing into
:44:14. > :44:29.the cap. In a moment we will get a review of Scott Bentley from the
:44:30. > :44:37.coffee-lovers magazine. That is not amazing. But first, good
:44:38. > :44:45.old Scott is making us coffee. Good action. It is not BYO here, but it
:44:46. > :44:50.is DIY. WTF? When people come to cafe, they buy things and they feel
:44:51. > :44:57.some how the pressure. They have to buy new cups, every half an hour or
:44:58. > :45:01.wise the waiter won't be happy with you. You feel guilty because you sit
:45:02. > :45:10.too long. Here the place is so cheap and you can drink as much coffee as
:45:11. > :45:17.you want. Ivan is the young Russian entrepeneur behind the Black Cafe.
:45:18. > :45:21.There is several in his homeland? The consumption system puts you in a
:45:22. > :45:27.position of someone like a servant and someone as consumers. In fact we
:45:28. > :45:34.are all equal, we would love to speak to each other like we are.
:45:35. > :45:42.Like John and sellia or someone. Sylvia.
:45:43. > :45:49.What is to stop one naveling all of s -- snaffleing it all. We read the
:45:50. > :45:54.tea loaves. If I do something for you I want you to do it back to me.
:45:55. > :45:59.In fairness, fairness trumping everything else, it trumps money. I
:46:00. > :46:03.guess in this case the act of giving people an environment where they can
:46:04. > :46:06.be free and help themselves, means there is an onus on those to respect
:46:07. > :46:12.that, therefore they return the favour and it is fair. We have run
:46:13. > :46:18.up a tab of 6p in the cafe that charges by the minute.
:46:19. > :46:24.It is like you have gone round to yourian's for a cup of tea. It is
:46:25. > :46:30.great, we don't have a lot, instead of renting a studio and something, I
:46:31. > :46:34.would come here. It is a niche market, it is great to see creative
:46:35. > :46:44.people around. It is for people like us, young and cool and yeah, that
:46:45. > :46:50.has stunned you! What about the man from caffeine magazine, can he see
:46:51. > :46:54.this pay per minute coffee shop being something that will catch off?
:46:55. > :46:58.It is a place to meet, friends, family, business aGanttances, that
:46:59. > :47:02.happens everywhere, I don't think there is too much of a problem. I
:47:03. > :47:09.think the coolness of it is definitely working here. Here Here
:47:10. > :47:17.in Shoreditch, but a lot is down to the deck cor as well. As the --
:47:18. > :47:20.decor as well. As many say, been there done that.
:47:21. > :47:23.Steve Smith living near the edge there. That is all we have time for