:00:11. > :00:16.Lord Rennard fights back, threatening legal action against his
:00:17. > :00:20.party over sexual harassment claims. Is this the biggest crisis ever to
:00:21. > :00:24.engulf the Liberal Democrats. One senior figure in the party tells
:00:25. > :00:29.me a court case would be like Lord Rennard pulling the Pina out of the
:00:30. > :00:32.grenade he's holding. He will hurt others but do more damage to
:00:33. > :00:40.himself. Nicolas Anelka is charged by the FA
:00:41. > :00:43.over his infamous Quennelle gesture, David Baddiel says when it comes to
:00:44. > :00:47.racism in football there is a double standard in play. If I had made some
:00:48. > :00:51.kind of anti-immigration gesture and said that was in support of my
:00:52. > :00:58.friend Nick Griffin, people would say that doesn't make it OK. Nigel
:00:59. > :01:02.Farage has been haunt bid his members insulting women, talking
:01:03. > :01:07.about gay marriage and floods and talking about bongo bongo land. Can
:01:08. > :01:12.he clean up his party's act without wiping it out. Here is the man with
:01:13. > :01:20.the job, Neil Hamilton, the deputy chair of UKIP.
:01:21. > :01:23.God evening, it is hard to believe -- good evening, it is hard to
:01:24. > :01:27.believe that the Liberal Democrats are party of Government when their
:01:28. > :01:35.handling of the Rennard row is so buy Sandt time. In the latest
:01:36. > :01:39.episode -- byzantine, Lord Rennard is threatening to start legal
:01:40. > :01:46.proceedings against his party. Our political editor is here with us,
:01:47. > :01:51.Emily, it just keeps giving? Only the Lib Dems, one put it, could have
:01:52. > :02:02.a sex scandal that didn't involve sex, but culminated in what feels
:02:03. > :02:06.like a leadership cry crisis. They are worried about how bloody this is
:02:07. > :02:11.getting. Lord Rennard announced he was a step closer to legal action
:02:12. > :02:16.against his own party, applying for an injunction to stop internal
:02:17. > :02:20.proceedings against him. This is from yesterday when he refused to
:02:21. > :02:23.apologise to the women who claimed sexual harassment. One key figure in
:02:24. > :02:28.the party put it like this, a court case, they said, would be like Chris
:02:29. > :02:35.Rennard pulling the Pina out of a grenade he -- the Pina pin out of a
:02:36. > :02:39.grenade's holding he would hurt others but do more damage to
:02:40. > :02:43.himself. We don't know the direction it will go in, but it has gone too
:02:44. > :02:50.far to know how to stop it. Earlier we heard from the former party
:02:51. > :02:54.leader, the liberals Lord Steel, he told us the only way out of the
:02:55. > :02:58.situation was to reverse yesterday's decision. Until the party withdraws
:02:59. > :03:02.its suspension it really is impossible to get the sides
:03:03. > :03:07.together, whether around table or not to dream up some form of
:03:08. > :03:10.apology. But I'm sure that it is possible, given goodwill, and
:03:11. > :03:13.frankly it should have been done years ago. The idea that we now have
:03:14. > :03:18.a third inquiry is simply ridiculous. And where is Nick Clegg
:03:19. > :03:22.in all this today? I get the sense the leadership are slightly baffled
:03:23. > :03:27.by all of this. Those close to Nick Clegg say it is not him demanding
:03:28. > :03:30.the apology, it is not a leadership thing. He's sticking to the
:03:31. > :03:34.recommendation that was made, don't forget, by the judicial findings, by
:03:35. > :03:38.Alastair Webster, in that report that came out at the end of last
:03:39. > :03:45.week. Lord Rennard was told to, and these are quotes "reflect on his
:03:46. > :03:49.behaviour and apology guise". Nick Clegg -- reflect on his behaviour
:03:50. > :03:54.and apologise", and Nick Clegg believes that should be publicly
:03:55. > :03:58.made. We heard the leader had learned of Lord Rennard's action
:03:59. > :04:02.through the media. There hadn't been contact between them, we know there
:04:03. > :04:08.hasn't been contact for a year, and people in the party have been acting
:04:09. > :04:11.as go-betweens. There is a story in the Telegraph, without citing any
:04:12. > :04:14.words it suggests that Nick Clegg's wife, Miriam, is understood to have
:04:15. > :04:19.raised concerns with her husband that the party had let down female
:04:20. > :04:22.activists by failing to take their concerns seriously. She is not
:04:23. > :04:25.quoted. That is an understanding of whether she had an involvement.
:04:26. > :04:29.There is a sense not necessarily of a generational one, I wouldn't want
:04:30. > :04:33.to say there is an ageist divide going on, but there is some sense
:04:34. > :04:39.that those in the party that have moved forward, that are taking this
:04:40. > :04:43.seriously, the women's concerns seriously are keen to hear that
:04:44. > :04:47.apology, and no other sense of mediation can condition until that
:04:48. > :04:52.comes. It all hinges on Lord Rennard himself. I'm joined by Evan Harris,
:04:53. > :04:55.a former front bench MP for the Liberal Democrats, and now a vice
:04:56. > :05:00.chair of their Federal Policy Committee and party activist,
:05:01. > :05:09.Katherine Bavage, who started a Twitter campaign called Hashimotono
:05:10. > :05:14.apologynowhip. Nobody from the Liberal Democrat leadership came to
:05:15. > :05:19.talk to Newsnight. It is the second night they have refused to talk.
:05:20. > :05:23.Lord Rennard appears ready to push this to the brink, no matter how
:05:24. > :05:28.much damage he does? It would appear so, as party member of eight years
:05:29. > :05:36.myself, I think it is matter of great regret he hasn't lisencen't
:05:37. > :05:40.listened to calls from members like -- he hasn't listened to calls from
:05:41. > :05:47.members like myself. We feel the request for the apology was
:05:48. > :05:54.reasonable and he should have made the concession. There are calls for
:05:55. > :06:01.the suspension to be lifted? I'm not sure it can. It is looking at
:06:02. > :06:06.whether or not he hud looks a if he had brought the party into dis
:06:07. > :06:12.should go ahead I think. Nobody is prepared to talk about it,s to
:06:13. > :06:16.byzantine nobody has a handle about what is going on? Certain aspects
:06:17. > :06:21.have been blown out of proportion. What is agreed is what was said to
:06:22. > :06:26.be said by Miriam Nick Clegg's wife and presumably the Telegraph have
:06:27. > :06:31.got sources inside the house. It is accepted by the Liberal Democrats
:06:32. > :06:33.that the failure to act on these complaints at the time they were
:06:34. > :06:37.made was a failure. It was a scandal. The leader, the President,
:06:38. > :06:42.everyone has said that, and there was a report... Until Katherine
:06:43. > :06:56.started last Friday, pushing for it... . This was accepted in
:06:57. > :07:02.February, last year. That was where the report was made so never before
:07:03. > :07:06.would this happen. If I could explain, so, on Thursday we waited
:07:07. > :07:09.to see what sort of announcements were coming from the party
:07:10. > :07:13.leadership. They were, you know, not particularly strong low-worded so we
:07:14. > :07:17.decided the best thing we could do is write we really felt he had to
:07:18. > :07:23.make that commitment to the apology. It was only after our letter went
:07:24. > :07:26.on-line that Nick's statement came out and it was stronger. The
:07:27. > :07:29.activists were ahead of the leadership on this. I think Nick
:07:30. > :07:33.Clegg's position is no apology to whip. He has made that clear. We are
:07:34. > :07:40.glad with that. There is very few people, David Steel is one, there
:07:41. > :07:44.are few who disagree with that provision, but there is a process.
:07:45. > :07:49.Why not come on and tell us about it? Because there is a process.
:07:50. > :07:52.Please! If legal action is threatened, because of a poor
:07:53. > :07:56.process. He wouldn't come on last night and there was no legal action
:07:57. > :08:01.threatened last night. It has always been threatened. It has been made
:08:02. > :08:05.quite clear by Lord Rennard's legal advisers that there is a legal
:08:06. > :08:09.threat. It is very sad that there is this stand-off, the outcome of this
:08:10. > :08:14.will either be a senior member of the Liberal Democrats expelled from
:08:15. > :08:17.the party or he is not. Let me just, that may be, we don't know. That
:08:18. > :08:21.That is not headline news five days running it is a serious matter. It
:08:22. > :08:24.says something about the Liberal Democrats, I wonder had it not been
:08:25. > :08:27.for what happened last week, what do you think would have been the
:08:28. > :08:32.outcome? Well, the concern was that the whole Marmite get brushed into
:08:33. > :08:36.the carpet. There was an independent report, do you accept, Katherine, we
:08:37. > :08:40.need to have this debate. Do you accept there was, I'm on your side I
:08:41. > :08:43.agree with you. There was an independent report that said that
:08:44. > :08:46.while there was not sufficient evidence to meet the standard of
:08:47. > :08:50.proof to make a finding, there was a need for him to apologise and to
:08:51. > :08:53.reflect on his behaviour. And he didn't? Indeed, and that's why he
:08:54. > :08:57.has been suspended pending an inquiry now as to whether that
:08:58. > :09:01.refusal is bringing the party into disrepute. That process must take
:09:02. > :09:06.its course. You can't judge it now. You say the process has to take its
:09:07. > :09:10.course. I'm asking a broader, more general question, that his decision
:09:11. > :09:13.to pursue legal action is devastating for the party, isn't it?
:09:14. > :09:18.If he takes legal action, if he takes legal action. And wins? What
:09:19. > :09:23.will the women in the party think, Katherine? This is a hypothetical. I
:09:24. > :09:27.don't think he's likely to prevent a due process going ahead. And this is
:09:28. > :09:31.just my opinion, it is extremely unlikely that an injunction to
:09:32. > :09:35.prevent due process, following a QC's report. It is regrettable. I
:09:36. > :09:38.just want to put a question to Katherine? We have to look at the
:09:39. > :09:43.other part of that independent report that said the full
:09:44. > :09:46.omplainants' description of the events was broadly credible. I don't
:09:47. > :09:53.think the process has given enough weight to how that might make party
:09:54. > :09:58.members feel, and not just women, a lot of my members are men, everyone
:09:59. > :10:02.needs to be respected. Do you think if this is not resolved for the four
:10:03. > :10:06.women concerned and all the women activists in the party, that women
:10:07. > :10:09.will not want to be within the Liberal Democrats, they will not see
:10:10. > :10:12.it as the place they thought it was? We have heard some people talk about
:10:13. > :10:16.resignations and cutting up their membership. I don't want to do that,
:10:17. > :10:19.I want to stay in the party and fight to make it safer. Would you
:10:20. > :10:23.feel if Lord Rennard came back without a resolution you would be
:10:24. > :10:27.welcome in that party? It would be really dis fitting, and the
:10:28. > :10:31.leadership need to work with members. They couldn't do any more.
:10:32. > :10:37.They have done the inquiry and now a second inquiry. We have to stop now.
:10:38. > :10:47.In a moment, we take a race car legend to Britain's first motorway
:10:48. > :10:49.pub. The West Brom football player,
:10:50. > :10:54.Nicolas Anelka, has been charged by the FA for making a salute widely
:10:55. > :10:58.regarded as being anti-semetic, after scoring against West Ham
:10:59. > :11:02.United last month. Accusations of anti-semitism are not restricted to
:11:03. > :11:07.players on the field. Today three fans have been charged with using
:11:08. > :11:12.the word "yid" at Spurs matches. Zoopla, the property website has
:11:13. > :11:16.already announced it won't renew a ?3 million sponsorship of the club.
:11:17. > :11:19.Newsnight has found at least two other sponsors are considering
:11:20. > :11:24.pulling their support too. Both Holler Watches and Jack Wolfskin
:11:25. > :11:26.told us that ending their relationship with West Brom is now a
:11:27. > :11:32.real possibility. We have been talking to a comedian
:11:33. > :11:35.with a keen interest in Anelka's arm gesture.
:11:36. > :11:39.Nicolas Anelka, waiting for kick-off in last night's home game against
:11:40. > :11:43.Everton. The striker wore the colours of West Brom and their
:11:44. > :11:48.sponsor Zoopla. He could be banned for a minimum of five games after
:11:49. > :11:54.the FA charged him with making an improper gesture, aggravated by a
:11:55. > :12:02.reference to race or religion. That follows this infamous "Quennelle" as
:12:03. > :12:06.it is known, said to be some by an inveted Nazi salute, during a match
:12:07. > :12:12.last month. Anelka said he was merely showing support for a friend,
:12:13. > :12:17.a controversial French comedian, whose shows have been banned over
:12:18. > :12:20.alleged anti-semitism. Newsnight discussed the case with David
:12:21. > :12:25.Baddiel, comedian turned novelist and film maker, who is a Chelsea
:12:26. > :12:28.supporter and has campaigned against anti-semitism in football. I didn't
:12:29. > :12:33.know what the gesture was when he made it, as I'm sure most people
:12:34. > :12:38.didn't know. I had never seen it before, I had to be told it is a
:12:39. > :12:43.Quennelle, and that is an inveted Nazi salute. So I didn't
:12:44. > :12:48.particularly have a thought about it at all. But then I think where I
:12:49. > :12:54.became more interested in it was in the fact that Anelka defended
:12:55. > :13:03.himself by saying he was only trying to show for more his friend Judon.
:13:04. > :13:08.He is, I'm aware of is an anti-semetic person. What is odd
:13:09. > :13:13.about it, because it became an acceptable defence, Anelka seemed to
:13:14. > :13:20.be saying it is not anti-semitism it is in support of my friend the
:13:21. > :13:25.enormous antisemite. I thought that is not right here. I thought if I
:13:26. > :13:29.had made some kind of anti-immigration gesture and said it
:13:30. > :13:35.was in support of my friend Nick Griffin, people would say it is not
:13:36. > :13:42.OK. But, I think, to be fair to Nicolas Anelka, I think probably the
:13:43. > :13:49.greater resonance of what someone like Dudon is doing is not something
:13:50. > :13:53.there is much support for. In France, as far as I can make out,
:13:54. > :13:58.anti-establishment behaviour from people like Dudon has become very
:13:59. > :14:02.mixed up with anti-semetic behaviour, such that when I tweeted
:14:03. > :14:06.about this I tweeted about how it seems if you are supporting Dudon
:14:07. > :14:11.then you are anti-semetic in some way. A French person tweeted me back
:14:12. > :14:15.saying you don't understand, it is just anti-Government, anti-French
:14:16. > :14:22.Government and anti-the Zionist cab balance. I thought -- kabal. In my
:14:23. > :14:26.sense you are getting close to anti-semitism in my understanding of
:14:27. > :14:33.the Zionist kabal. Is it for complicated and nuanced because
:14:34. > :14:43.Dudon is a comedian and it is a matter of free speech censorship
:14:44. > :14:48.rather than a rabble rousing thing. I haven't seen him, he's not a
:14:49. > :14:53.comedian like Michael McIntyre is a comitteedia. 's a provoke -- a
:14:54. > :14:58.comedian. He's provocative in France, and he should totally be
:14:59. > :15:06.fine to do that. What is complicated is he has done a film called The
:15:07. > :15:10.Anti--Semite, it is not ironic, it is very anti-semetic. His targets
:15:11. > :15:15.are the French establishment and Jews. It is not like he attacks
:15:16. > :15:20.everyone equally, and as I say, there is an alignment in his mind
:15:21. > :15:23.and his supporters' mind between the French establishment and the Jews. I
:15:24. > :15:27.don't know if he should be banned or not, I'm not that interested in
:15:28. > :15:30.whether things should be banned. Although I think one of the see
:15:31. > :15:34.things, and this is often missed out, is once you start banning
:15:35. > :15:38.things, so if you are banning people for using racist language towards
:15:39. > :15:43.black people, or racist language towards Asian people, then you also
:15:44. > :15:48.have to ban them for using racist language towards Jewish people.
:15:49. > :15:52.For the FA there are two problems, they have to balance the fact that
:15:53. > :15:58.the player is saying I didn't intend it to be anti-semetic. I have no
:15:59. > :16:03.reason to disbelieve him. And then there is another issue, which I
:16:04. > :16:09.think is going on here, which is I think people, I think the guardians
:16:10. > :16:14.of antiracism do feel that it is more complex when the person who
:16:15. > :16:17.might be being racist is themselves from an ethnic minority,
:16:18. > :16:21.particularly a black person. It is more complicated for them, they
:16:22. > :16:28.think we don't want to be seen to be attacking a black person when our
:16:29. > :16:32.job is to protect ethnic minorities. Zoopla won't renew their sponsorship
:16:33. > :16:35.of Anelka's club, West Bromwich Albion. One thing I think is weird
:16:36. > :16:42.is all the papers are really telling you that the head of Zoopla is a
:16:43. > :16:45.Jewish businessman. I haven't read about this story without the papers
:16:46. > :16:50.talking about this Jewish businessman. I would like to think
:16:51. > :16:55.that you could be of any race or religion and object to someone doing
:16:56. > :17:00.a Nazi salute as a celebration. A lot of people shout this word, it
:17:01. > :17:05.begins with "Y". David Baddiel made a film for the football authorities
:17:06. > :17:11.urging fans not to chant the word "yid" it is often heard at White
:17:12. > :17:16.Hart Lane, why there is Jewish support. Some home fans use the "Y"
:17:17. > :17:20.word themselves saying they are reclaiming it. Spurs fans are
:17:21. > :17:25.correct in saying they think they do it in a different way to the way
:17:26. > :17:31.Chelsea fans do it, that is right. All that has to go in the mix where
:17:32. > :17:35.you are trying to get into the place where anti-semitism isn't on the
:17:36. > :17:38.terraces any more. It is nuanced and you have to think the best way round
:17:39. > :17:45.it. Hopefully it is all heading in the right direction, but there are
:17:46. > :17:49.bumps along the way. Nigel Farage likes to lead UKIP from the front,
:17:50. > :17:54.to set the tone as it were. Think of his speech to the City, apining that
:17:55. > :17:58.women taking time off to have children are less valuable to
:17:59. > :18:03.employers. Others have distinguished themselves talking about Bongo Bongo
:18:04. > :18:07.Land, and one councillor distinguished himself saying the
:18:08. > :18:12.floods were due to the decision to legalise gay marriage. This week
:18:13. > :18:18.their Scottish interim chairman is leading an anti-sectarian charity,
:18:19. > :18:24.after decribing a local authority for gays, and communists. All this
:18:25. > :18:28.after Nigel Farage said he wanted to professionalise the party. I will
:18:29. > :18:34.ask the chairman if you can change the DNA of UKIP. First Emily Maitlis
:18:35. > :18:39.again. Gay anthem like this doesn't just
:18:40. > :18:41.become a chart crusade for no reason.
:18:42. > :18:47.# I'm gonna go out # I'm gonna let myself
:18:48. > :18:53.# Get absolutely soaking wet And the reason it could be set to climb is
:18:54. > :18:58.this. What? Well not this exactly, but this man, David Sylvester,
:18:59. > :19:02.formerly of the Conservatives, now UKIP. He said at the weekend the
:19:03. > :19:05.country had been beset by storms since gay marriage was passed into
:19:06. > :19:11.law. Public outcry, certainly on Twitter was palpable. Mr Sylvester
:19:12. > :19:15.looked as if he would survive the day. He didn't, he was suspended by
:19:16. > :19:20.UKIP after defying a request not to do further interviews. And the
:19:21. > :19:24.curious thing here is not, dare I say, an unusual view expressed by a
:19:25. > :19:28.UKIP member. No the curious thing here is the swift action at the top
:19:29. > :19:33.of the party. UKIP is proud of its man on the
:19:34. > :19:39.streets, or man in the pub image, but an insider understands that a
:19:40. > :19:43.campaign is quietly under foot to professionalise the party, driven by
:19:44. > :19:47.the fact that its membership has widened and changed. You sir are a
:19:48. > :19:52.racist. Why? It is a big leap for a party that has, up until now, dare
:19:53. > :19:56.today say and do the unsayable. Disgraceful, you are disgraceful.
:19:57. > :20:01.Who could forget the larger than life, Godfrey Bloom, seen whacking
:20:02. > :20:06.my colleague, Michael Crick in happier times. He called countries
:20:07. > :20:11.that received Government aid Bongo Bongo Land, Godfrey, not Michael. He
:20:12. > :20:16.survived many of his outbursts but eventually lost the whip in
:20:17. > :20:21.September. Earlier today I spoke to the North West ME P candidate who
:20:22. > :20:25.said it was imperative that people could be allowed to speak their
:20:26. > :20:31.mind. Our democracy is suffering from a deficit of the truth. If you
:20:32. > :20:36.nail people down and the media nail every difference you damage
:20:37. > :20:38.democracy. Last week Mr Slaughter suspended his own Twitter and
:20:39. > :20:42.Facebook accounts, I asked was it anything he said or regretted. The
:20:43. > :20:51.tweet where he referred to the US President as "Islam-Obama". Why call
:20:52. > :20:56.him Islam-Obama, what did you mean? We seem to be going down a route we
:20:57. > :21:02.should move off, it is out of context again. It is a tweet, it is
:21:03. > :21:07.irrelevant, in effect. What we are talking about is policy. And we're
:21:08. > :21:11.talking about the macro view of the world and what is going on. UKIP
:21:12. > :21:13.will tell you that the media concentrates disproportionally on
:21:14. > :21:18.their crazies, when they can be found in every party. But the fact
:21:19. > :21:24.there does seem to be some attempt at a January des to go is not
:21:25. > :21:27.insignificant. Climate change is an area they have been told to approach
:21:28. > :21:35.with more nuance rather than flat denials. One senior UKIP member told
:21:36. > :21:39.me we don't need to be the party of pub bores who think they know better
:21:40. > :21:44.than the scientists. He said he can't see UKIP becoming an ultra
:21:45. > :21:50.politically correct party, but it is about limiting self- ndulgence. It
:21:51. > :21:55.may sound like a strategy any party needs to implement. That is becoming
:21:56. > :22:00.serious about power. But for some of the UKIP old guard it is deep
:22:01. > :22:06.disappointment. They point to the top of the party and say it is
:22:07. > :22:21.detatched from the base it first stood
:22:22. > :22:33.If more power beckons, the dichotomy is this, how to maintain their
:22:34. > :22:39.position as outsiders in UK politics without letting candidates lose the
:22:40. > :22:46.plot. UKIP members love their smoke filled rooms, they just want to be
:22:47. > :22:51.on the inside of them. Neil Hamilton was a Tory minister who fell from
:22:52. > :22:57.grace now he's UKIP's deputy chair, how does the new UKIP differ from
:22:58. > :22:59.the old UKIP? It doesn't, what we have heard this evening is a few
:23:00. > :23:02.individuals who couldn't discipline themselves, knowing how the media
:23:03. > :23:09.are going to report them. They get in the way of the party's message,
:23:10. > :23:15.I'm afraid they have to go. So in effect Mr Slaughter will go, he is
:23:16. > :23:19.the gentleman who said "Islam-Obama's real legacy". What
:23:20. > :23:23.does that mean? First I have heard this evening. Should he go, you have
:23:24. > :23:27.just said people who flout the rules should go? If they get in the way of
:23:28. > :23:33.the party's message, by behaving in a way which is undisciplined, then
:23:34. > :23:37.they must expect to be taken off the air. We are now a mainstream
:23:38. > :23:41.political party, not a fringe political grouping. The bookies are
:23:42. > :23:44.make us favourites to win the European elections. We have a
:23:45. > :23:49.by-election now in Manchester, we are serious contenders in
:23:50. > :23:57.constituencies up and down the country. He's not just an MEP
:23:58. > :24:02.candidate. He also said that the EU floods the UK with immigrants, as a
:24:03. > :24:06.tool of choice to break the UK and force integration, saying that
:24:07. > :24:09.should he go? I won't get into defending or attacking people for
:24:10. > :24:13.their tweets. It is not exactly Lord Rennard is it? Who knows, aren't you
:24:14. > :24:18.meant to be cleaning up the party? David Cameron tweeted the other day
:24:19. > :24:25.that he was part of Nigella's team and almost undermined a legal
:24:26. > :24:31.action. Let's just be clear, you are saying "Islam-Obama" is the same as
:24:32. > :24:35."team Nigella"? I don't know what that is. Nigel Farage, going to the
:24:36. > :24:39.top, mainstream party, he wants to set the tone, he makes a speech in
:24:40. > :24:44.the City in which he says that women who have children are therefore for
:24:45. > :24:48.less valuable. He didn't say that. He said it is understandable they
:24:49. > :24:52.are paid less, if they go and break their careers having children? What
:24:53. > :24:56.he was talking about was brokerage firms in the City who take on women
:24:57. > :25:00.because of their client list, if they take three or four years off to
:25:01. > :25:04.bring up children, they lose a lot of their clients, so they are less
:25:05. > :25:08.valuable when they come back. Because it is the client list. That
:25:09. > :25:12.is the message that UKIP wants to send out. There is no message. That
:25:13. > :25:17.is just stating a fact. So they should be less valuable? That is a
:25:18. > :25:22.fact. You don't think. The client list is worth what the clients on it
:25:23. > :25:26.are worth. If you have fewer clients, the client list is worth
:25:27. > :25:29.less, that is a simple point he was making. It is acceptable to give
:25:30. > :25:33.them lower salaries? It is not whether it is right or wrong, it is
:25:34. > :25:37.a fact of life. Does your wife agree with that in the party? I always
:25:38. > :25:41.agree with my wife, whether she agrees with me is another matter.
:25:42. > :25:48.Nigel Farage was simply stating a fact, that when a City brokerage
:25:49. > :25:52.firm is taking on a woman or a man, their value to the firm is the value
:25:53. > :25:56.of the client list. If the clients that the woman had at the beginning
:25:57. > :26:01.of her pregnancy are much less valuable at the end of her period
:26:02. > :26:07.she has taken off to bring up children, they will pay her less,
:26:08. > :26:12.that is a fact of life. He wasn't making any equalive judgment about t
:26:13. > :26:19.I read the transcript. There is meant to be a weeding out process of
:26:20. > :26:25.problem candidates. That weeding outprocess is a couple of interns --
:26:26. > :26:32.weeding out process is a couple of interns weeding out on the Internet.
:26:33. > :26:37.We have a tweet, "the Searlely miserable UK staff of immigration
:26:38. > :26:40.are a sign of ruined UK, sack them all". He was probably frustrated by
:26:41. > :26:44.the queue he was. I haven't come across it. You must understand that
:26:45. > :26:47.there is an army of people paid by the mainstream parties, Tories and
:26:48. > :26:52.liberals in particular who are frightened to death at the impact
:26:53. > :26:57.that UKIP is having upon them are being paid to mine into Twitter
:26:58. > :27:04.accounts, into Facebook Major Generals to find -- pages, to find
:27:05. > :27:10.any remark to pervert and put in the headlights to bring down UKIP. They
:27:11. > :27:15.will fail, they can't do it on policy so they are going for the
:27:16. > :27:21.individual. There are grassroots who won't be talked down? We have 33,000
:27:22. > :27:23.members, what is the size of the backlash from those members.
:27:24. > :27:26.Anything from the party putting anything on Twitter is fine. You
:27:27. > :27:32.seem to be suggesting it is just a tweet, it matters not a jot s that
:27:33. > :27:36.the case? If it is emparsing, or breaks the party's -- embarrassing
:27:37. > :27:39.or breaks the party's rules they will face disciplinary action. It is
:27:40. > :27:42.up to individuals to make a complaint in an individual case. I'm
:27:43. > :27:45.not going to talk in general terms because you can't divorce the
:27:46. > :27:53.individual and the remarks he makes from the factual context in which
:27:54. > :27:58.they are made. Thank you. When the going gets rough in A departments
:27:59. > :28:04.through the winter, operations can be farmed out to private health
:28:05. > :28:08.firms. That is what the NHS Medical Director told MPs today in the light
:28:09. > :28:13.of increased pressure and cancelled operations and Accident and
:28:14. > :28:17.Emergency units. The Queen Elizabeth hospital in Birmingham is one of the
:28:18. > :28:25.biggest and busiest in the country. Its catchment has increased 300,000
:28:26. > :28:30.since it open. Right now staff are Atajic SFUL stretch because it has
:28:31. > :28:38.to deal with social issues and it can't turn anyone away. Is SGLFRNLT
:28:39. > :28:46.we are firefighting on the shop floor, we are managing patient flow
:28:47. > :28:49.at crisis level. We have got a really good nor rail and strong
:28:50. > :29:02.team, we do pull together really well. There are times when there is
:29:03. > :29:17.nowhere else to go. Sometimes I want to walk out the door and not come
:29:18. > :29:19.back. Trong team, we do pull together really well. There are
:29:20. > :29:22.times when there is nowhere else to go. Sometimes I want to walk out the
:29:23. > :29:25.door and not come back. So the GP has sent you in today, you have been
:29:26. > :29:32.to see the GP earlier, thank you, if you take a seat you will be called.
:29:33. > :29:38.One was sent by the GP for suicidal talk, the crew didn't tell me she
:29:39. > :29:46.had taken tenantity depressants yesterday -- taken ten
:29:47. > :29:50.antidepressants yesterday. We have an increase in winter, this year we
:29:51. > :30:18.have seen a huge increase in the patient flowing through the
:30:19. > :30:20.department. , this year we have seen a huge increase in the patient
:30:21. > :30:24.flowing through the department. I'm in charge of making sure we meet the
:30:25. > :30:30.guidelines. Then you have people not getting a GP appointment and also
:30:31. > :30:33.feeling that A might serve them better at that time. We have only
:30:34. > :30:39.one cubicle left haven't we, is that right? So one cubicle, one
:30:40. > :30:42.resuscitation bay. We do see a lot of patients come in through to us
:30:43. > :30:52.that may not necessarily need to come to this hospital. What has
:30:53. > :30:57.happened to you? I sort of just, my finger is just misshapen, I was just
:30:58. > :31:02.putting my throw over my sofa and it just went actually, yeah, I just
:31:03. > :31:08.want to make sure I haven't broken it really. I think I just need a
:31:09. > :31:12.splint for it I was told. Let's get you booked in, what is your date of
:31:13. > :31:21.birth. Do you get a lot of people coming in that don't need to come
:31:22. > :31:29.in? Yes. A lot. A lot! Our best one was the few months ago someone
:31:30. > :31:34.coming in with a love bite! Strange. How do you deal with that then?
:31:35. > :31:39.Shocked, take a seat! Wait two hours, to be told off you go. But
:31:40. > :31:54.you can't, you have to book them in, we can't send them away from here.
:31:55. > :32:03.Take him off the scoop while on the scan. As a trauma centre we get a
:32:04. > :32:07.letter to all major traumas, this is a major trauma call. The gentleman
:32:08. > :32:11.was brought in by the ambulance crew, we took handover of this
:32:12. > :32:17.gentleman who was supposed to have fallen top to bottom of the stairs.
:32:18. > :32:23.He had multiple injuries, including to his skull, to his spine, to his
:32:24. > :32:30.best, and to his arm at the time. When I started in emergency medicine
:32:31. > :32:35.as a doctor in 13 years ago, what A is like then is completely
:32:36. > :32:37.different to now. Nowadays we are instigating more treatment in the
:32:38. > :32:43.departments, we are doing for more the patient. It is not a see,
:32:44. > :32:48.assess, admit and Paston the relevant specialties, we are
:32:49. > :32:58.treating more and doing more. You can't remember the name of it? Don't
:32:59. > :33:03.worry darling. Phyllis came to us having been in touch with the GP
:33:04. > :33:07.with pains in her arms which she had an extensive cardiac history and had
:33:08. > :33:13.a pacemaker. The GP wanted her to be checked out thoroughly to see if it
:33:14. > :33:20.was related to her pacemaker. Do you want a sandwich as well? Yes, if you
:33:21. > :33:26.are right. I might as well might I. Make a pig's party of it! When she
:33:27. > :33:32.came in we did all the routine stuff, ECG, blood and various other
:33:33. > :33:40.things. And her pacemaker wasn't working as it should. And it was a
:33:41. > :33:46.good call. There are more demands, I think to some extent the NHS is a
:33:47. > :33:50.victim of its own success. And we regularly hear from people that they
:33:51. > :33:55.hear that the Queen Elizabeth is the place to go. So they travel long
:33:56. > :34:02.distances to come here specifically. So it does add extra pressure, it
:34:03. > :34:12.is, it does put everybody under more pressure. Hello, nice to meet you,
:34:13. > :34:16.I'm a doctor. I work to set up the front door geriatric team here at
:34:17. > :34:18.the Queen Elizabeth. Our aim is to recognise potentially vulnerable
:34:19. > :34:23.older people at the point they arrive at hospital. I have an
:34:24. > :34:27.infection. He was worried about your chest. I never dreamed I would come
:34:28. > :34:32.in today. What we will do, I think you are going out to West Heath, to
:34:33. > :34:36.ward 14. Either myself or a team member will
:34:37. > :34:39.see them at a first opportunity. We look to see why they have attended
:34:40. > :34:43.to hospital. Where we get bottlenecks in the system is the
:34:44. > :34:52.border, the transfer of care between health and social care. As the
:34:53. > :34:57.population has aged, diversified, but living an awful lot longer, it
:34:58. > :35:00.is actually impossible to separate out health and social care, so that
:35:01. > :35:03.model that was put in place when the NHS was founded actually needs to be
:35:04. > :35:10.adjusted to deal with what we have now. We seem to be constantly
:35:11. > :35:13.firefighting on the shop floor, we are managing the patient flow at
:35:14. > :35:16.crisis level. And I think really that has problems in getting them
:35:17. > :35:21.admitted through the hospital system, and getting them discharged
:35:22. > :35:25.into the community services. She has a history of left arm pain.
:35:26. > :35:30.It is incredibly difficult when there is nowhere else for anybody to
:35:31. > :35:38.go. We have used every possible bed in the hospital. It is very
:35:39. > :35:41.frustrating. It is very hard. It is very disheartening as well, because
:35:42. > :35:47.that's not what you want to be doing. You want to give the best you
:35:48. > :35:58.possibly can and more. There are times when you are not able to do
:35:59. > :36:03.that. Every day I actually feel I'm working to my absolute top capacity.
:36:04. > :36:09.That we never have any slack within the system to be able to take a step
:36:10. > :36:13.back and look where we are. Sometimes it actually makes me want
:36:14. > :36:17.to feel as if I want to walk out the door and not bother coming back. But
:36:18. > :36:21.then you go and see some of the patients and you sit down and have a
:36:22. > :36:25.chat to a lady who has been struggling at home but didn't
:36:26. > :36:30.realise she was unwell and we have done something and made her better
:36:31. > :36:34.and got her walking again, and put in bits and pieces at home and
:36:35. > :36:37.someone is going to bring in meals to microwave, and somebody will pop
:36:38. > :36:41.in the morning that make sure she's OK. She's pleased with the plan and
:36:42. > :36:44.we have managed to sort that out quickly and she goes home feeling
:36:45. > :36:55.well again. It is the patients and the good outcomes that keep us
:36:56. > :36:59.going. Professor Keith Willetts is responsible for acute care in the
:37:00. > :37:04.NHS, you were at the Select Committee, you will have heard and
:37:05. > :37:08.know the statistics across England, between 140 and 450 planned
:37:09. > :37:14.operations a day, since the second of January have been cancelled
:37:15. > :37:21.because of the pressure on A Disstress, debilitating? --
:37:22. > :37:27.distressing and debt bill Tating? We are sure that the NHS is under
:37:28. > :37:32.pressure. That is the best and worse of the NHS. Dedicated, caring staff
:37:33. > :37:35.in those circumstances, clearly there is too much pressure in the
:37:36. > :37:39.system. In the short-term we are doing a variety of things to get us
:37:40. > :37:43.through this while we look in the long-term and actually review the
:37:44. > :37:46.whole system to actually decompress the A departments and the
:37:47. > :37:51.hospitals. But in, for example, the Queen Elizabeth hospital, they had
:37:52. > :37:55.to reopen the old 1930s hospital to extend their A to deal with all
:37:56. > :37:59.the patients. But you saw there, and they can't turn anyone away? No.
:38:00. > :38:06.They are dealing with somebody TWHA actually had -- that actual lie had
:38:07. > :38:10.a love bite, and a lady that needed complex social care. It is not that
:38:11. > :38:15.it is fit for purpose, it is not the purpose for which it was intended?
:38:16. > :38:21.Things have changed over time, and you saw two different issues, two
:38:22. > :38:28.people attending A and had the advice and Conservatives that
:38:29. > :38:32.conversation possible outside the hospital they wouldn't have come. We
:38:33. > :38:36.have the urgency care review that I'm leading with Sir Bruce Keogh,
:38:37. > :38:40.the components are how to have self-care and how to do much better
:38:41. > :38:43.on telephone advice for patients and give them the information they need.
:38:44. > :38:47.To be able to put them in touch with clinicians, nurses or dentists,
:38:48. > :38:53.whatever is their problem, so those sorts of issues don't go near A
:38:54. > :38:59.Complex social care? The other half, is the much bigger problem in the
:39:00. > :39:03.winter, it is not people turning up, that is a summer problem. It is
:39:04. > :39:07.complex problems in older people, 40% have dementia now, the issues
:39:08. > :39:10.are all those patients arrive by ambulance, they all need a trolley
:39:11. > :39:13.and ultimately a bed, therefore the hospital is under a very different
:39:14. > :39:17.sort of pressure in the winter. We have to build in a resilience. In
:39:18. > :39:21.the short-term it is the sort of things you saw described there. In
:39:22. > :39:24.the longer term we have to be able to, and many of the older patients
:39:25. > :39:29.as well would be much better managed in the community. So for an elderly
:39:30. > :39:33.patient with dementia, bringing them into the hospital particularly when
:39:34. > :39:37.they need care rather than treatment is worse for them. Even on the Queen
:39:38. > :39:41.Elizabeth Hospital that was built with a kind of capacity to grow in
:39:42. > :39:50.the next 20 years, and it was out of capacity within two years.
:39:51. > :39:55.8,000 peopl -- 78,000 people since Christmas have not been seen within
:39:56. > :39:59.the prescribed time of four hours. That is seen, treated and
:40:00. > :40:03.discharged. Nationally we are into week 41 of the year, it is very
:40:04. > :40:09.difficult, the figures are about comparable with last year, overall
:40:10. > :40:19.this year the 95% target has been met. Let me show you a quick graphic
:40:20. > :40:23.in 2003/04 the capacity in the NHS for A was 16 million, it is now 22
:40:24. > :40:28.million. It was never envisaged to be such a rise. Where has the
:40:29. > :40:31.failure come? Part of that, that is attendances, that is people
:40:32. > :40:34.arriving. Only about 20-25% of those are admitted. So there is a lot we
:40:35. > :40:40.can do about those who arrive, who have the sort of things that perhaps
:40:41. > :40:44.we could manage elsewhere. Some of those we could do better In the
:40:45. > :40:49.short-term, we are running out of time and I want to ask about this.
:40:50. > :40:53.In the Select Committee it was said that you will use private hospitals
:40:54. > :40:58.to push operations, is this the beginning of the privatisation of
:40:59. > :41:01.the NHS? That was brought up at the Health Select Committee, we were
:41:02. > :41:05.asked what we were doing to plan for winter this year. One thing was
:41:06. > :41:09.putting in more money, which we dealt with. The other was to set up
:41:10. > :41:13.the urgent care groups locally, we had urgent care, the local
:41:14. > :41:16.authority, the GPs, hospital and all discussing how we would manage it.
:41:17. > :41:20.One of the things we would look for at resilience, is the deputy chief
:41:21. > :41:25.executive of the NHS actually met with the voluntary sector and the
:41:26. > :41:28.independent sector to look at resilience, where was the spare
:41:29. > :41:31.capacity, the independent sector provides most of the care home beds,
:41:32. > :41:34.they have capacity in the private hospitals, so in the event of
:41:35. > :41:38.needing it we could call on it. That is good resilience planning. Thank
:41:39. > :41:43.you very much, if you want to find out how any major E unit in
:41:44. > :41:56.England and Wales is performing, get all the details on the BBC website.
:41:57. > :42:02.An extraordinary ash Kay of leaked -- cache has been found today of
:42:03. > :42:05.leaked documents. This is an extraordinary story, the
:42:06. > :42:10.investigative journalists have got hold of the hard drives of two
:42:11. > :42:16.companies specialising in setting up offshore companies for clients. The
:42:17. > :42:25.offshore world is almost always opaque, but this document gives us a
:42:26. > :42:30.peek behind the veil of secrecy. There is companies set up for 21,000
:42:31. > :42:35.Chinese clients. It goes to the top, they claim the brother-in-law of the
:42:36. > :42:39.President of China, he set up a company in the British Virgin
:42:40. > :42:43.Islands, they are also naming one of the son-in-laws of China's former
:42:44. > :42:48.premier as owning offshore companies. Here is the man
:42:49. > :42:54.overseeing the investigation for the last two years. What they show are
:42:55. > :42:58.the secret offshore accounts of some of the relatives of the leaders of
:42:59. > :43:03.China. They also show some of the richest people in China. And some
:43:04. > :43:08.individuals there are actually people from state-owned companies
:43:09. > :43:11.that have become embroiled in corruption scandals. What it really
:43:12. > :43:16.tells us is the Chinese are using offshore entities the same as people
:43:17. > :43:19.in the west. It is the western companies, the banks, the big
:43:20. > :43:24.accountany firms that are helping them do this. They are heading
:43:25. > :43:28.towards being the biggest users of offshore.
:43:29. > :43:32.What it tells us is the Chinese are using offshore bank accounts, it
:43:33. > :43:35.doesn't say what they are doing wrong? The answer is we can't tell
:43:36. > :43:40.that from the files. Because the companies set up are in the
:43:41. > :43:43.supersecretive offshore Vivarins, we have no idea what they have done.
:43:44. > :43:48.What we can do is ask the question of why might somebody want to set a
:43:49. > :43:51.company up in one of these havens, that is what I asked the chartered
:43:52. > :43:56.accountant, Richard Murphy who was an expert on tax havens. There are
:43:57. > :44:01.reasons why people need companies outside China. Clearly some
:44:02. > :44:05.companies will use an offshore company to be their trading point
:44:06. > :44:08.with the rest of the world. But actually, if you wanted that, the
:44:09. > :44:12.easiest place to form a company is here in the UK. You could do that,
:44:13. > :44:16.but the information would be on public record, it would be cheaper
:44:17. > :44:20.for you, the regulatory burden is in some ways lower, technically, but in
:44:21. > :44:24.practice of course you would be on the record. And so the reason why
:44:25. > :44:28.people will use the British Virgin Islands is because they want the
:44:29. > :44:33.secrecy. What kind of secrecy are we talking about here? All sorts of
:44:34. > :44:35.things, avoiding tax is one, but economists have been saying for
:44:36. > :44:39.years that vast amounts of money have been leaving China. Here is
:44:40. > :44:42.Richard Murphy again. Of course I would be worried if I was the
:44:43. > :44:47.Chinese Government about this amount of money leaving China. There is 100
:44:48. > :44:53.billion or so a year leaving. We know 60 billion is coming back. That
:44:54. > :44:56.money coming back is illicit money, black money, inside the Chinese
:44:57. > :45:00.economy. It is fuelling its house price increase, which is
:45:01. > :45:05.destablising the Chinese economy. There is an enormous shadow economy
:45:06. > :45:09.as a result, untaxed. It is creating a shadow economy and a big problem
:45:10. > :45:12.inside the UK housing market. Lots of this black money going through
:45:13. > :45:17.the British Virgin Islands is also turning up in our economy and
:45:18. > :45:22.fuelling house prices. Let's not forget who is ultimately responsible
:45:23. > :45:25.for, that the British Virgin island are British territory. Ultimately we
:45:26. > :45:34.should say we are responsible and maybe we should look to clean up the
:45:35. > :46:08.offshore haven. Tomorrow morning's front
:46:09. > :46:14.Doctors fear brain-damage is permanent for Schumacher. Before we
:46:15. > :46:20.go we asked Britain's best known motorist to drop in to the country's
:46:21. > :47:17.first motorway pub, which opened at junction two of the M 40 today. Here
:47:18. > :47:19.is the review. It was fog last night but rain