:00:10. > :00:15.On the day unemployment fell faster than in any quarter since 1997, we
:00:16. > :00:18.take you to a street in Birmingham, not Benefits Street, but Working
:00:19. > :00:29.Street, to hear what jobs mean there. Employed, employed, two
:00:30. > :00:32.people employed. With unemployment dropping so dramatically, could an
:00:33. > :00:37.interest rate rise be on the way? More than 40 countries gather in
:00:38. > :00:41.Montreux to try to bring peace to Syria. With both sides hurling
:00:42. > :00:48.accusations and insults across the room, what chance talks on Friday,
:00:49. > :00:53.we talk live to the regime. Independence Square in Kiev is still
:00:54. > :00:55.alight after three protestors are killed.
:00:56. > :01:00.There aren't just sex pests in politics, they may well be in a work
:01:01. > :01:03.place near you. Anne Robinson, Joan Bakewell and
:01:04. > :01:13.Stella Creasey share their own stories and their very different
:01:14. > :01:17.remedies. Good evening the Chancellor claimed
:01:18. > :01:22.success for Plan A, announcing that the sharp rise in unemployment was
:01:23. > :01:26.evidence that the long-term coalition plan for the economy is
:01:27. > :01:30.working and a claim that people in Britain are better off.
:01:31. > :01:33.Ed Miliband parried with inflation rising faster than wages many people
:01:34. > :01:36.are worse off. What is the truth? You may know
:01:37. > :01:47.about Benefits Street in Birmingham, we bring you Working Street in the
:01:48. > :01:59.same city. Employment, employed, two people
:02:00. > :02:03.employed. My son has just been born, two or three days a at the moment
:02:04. > :02:08.times are good, we have plenty of work on. Two people employed here,
:02:09. > :02:17.employed, and they didn't answer, they were out, so maybe they are
:02:18. > :02:21.work? Lazell Street in Birmingham, less than two miles for a street
:02:22. > :02:25.made famous on Channel four, may not be that far from your average
:02:26. > :02:30.street, most of the residents are working. Today unemployment fell far
:02:31. > :02:33.faster than most economists had expected. The Governor of the Bank
:02:34. > :02:36.of England had thought it would take two years to get this low. And
:02:37. > :02:41.nowhere in the UK is it falling faster than here in the West
:02:42. > :02:44.Midlands. This is the biggest fall in unemployment in 15 years, what
:02:45. > :02:50.sort of work is being created and how well does it pay?
:02:51. > :02:54.It is lunchtime and Asif is back from work as a postal worker where
:02:55. > :02:57.he gets ?8 an hour. You work for the Royal Mail through
:02:58. > :03:02.an agency, what sort of a contract have you got? It is like a zero
:03:03. > :03:06.hours contract. Zero hours? It is not fixed. So it is through an
:03:07. > :03:11.agency and you only get what you work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do your
:03:12. > :03:15.hours vary, do they go up and down? They could give me four hours one
:03:16. > :03:19.day and six the next. He has had the job for two months after being made
:03:20. > :03:25.redundant six months ago. So part-time, what are you paid per
:03:26. > :03:30.hour? ?8 an hour. About ?100 a week or there abouts. Around about that
:03:31. > :03:33.much. Can you get other work while doing this, part-time work? I could,
:03:34. > :03:37.I have been applying other place, no luck at the moment. I'm stuck with
:03:38. > :03:40.this job at the moment. Underemployment, where people want
:03:41. > :03:44.more work than they can get is falling. More than 300,000 jobs were
:03:45. > :03:48.created in the three months to the end of November. There are now more
:03:49. > :03:52.than 30 million in work. What is driving that here? The good news is
:03:53. > :03:56.we have large businesses who are thriving locally, big manufacturing
:03:57. > :04:01.organisations, Jaguar, Land Rover, JCB, who are growing and have
:04:02. > :04:07.vacancies. Great, it is falling, but it is still over 9%, in parts of
:04:08. > :04:10.Birmingham it is 20% plus, that is not acceptable. The issue we have
:04:11. > :04:14.got is we haven't skilled up the people in those parts of the city
:04:15. > :04:21.fast enough to celebrate the jobs that are coming along, to take the
:04:22. > :04:26.jobs that are available. Lozell Street has visible signs of the
:04:27. > :04:30.recovery we are hearing about, including the housing market. This
:04:31. > :04:34.man is benefitting now. What do you get paid, do you mind me asking? I'm
:04:35. > :04:42.doing it as a labour charge. So what, ?10 an hour? No, no, it is ?6,
:04:43. > :04:46.?7 an hour. And is there more business now do you find, is
:04:47. > :04:50.business picking up? Just nothing else. Nothing else after that? Just
:04:51. > :04:55.the building, nothing else. What will you do when this is finished?
:04:56. > :04:59.Going home. He may be working, but on wages like that he would be
:05:00. > :05:02.classed as being in poverty. And he may not be working next week. In
:05:03. > :05:07.fact, there are now more people in the UK in poverty with jobs than
:05:08. > :05:11.without. We saw again in the wage data today very, very slow growth,
:05:12. > :05:14.and wages still rising below # %, which is much low -- 1%, which is
:05:15. > :05:20.much lower than the rate of inflation. People getting poorer in
:05:21. > :05:24.terms of pay packets. One uncertainty in the labour market is
:05:25. > :05:29.why are wages so low, it didn't happen in any other recession and it
:05:30. > :05:34.didn't happen in the 80s and it is happening this time round, how much
:05:35. > :05:39.of this is a cyclical downturn and will turn around, or how much is
:05:40. > :05:46.structural and the jobs we are creating in our employment market.
:05:47. > :05:50.The thought is when wages can go up, we have to wait longer and longer
:05:51. > :05:54.for that to happen. The prediction from the Government was last year,
:05:55. > :05:57.after the eurocrisis the prediction was next year. And now the
:05:58. > :06:01.prediction is real wage growth will have to wait until 2017. In the
:06:02. > :06:10.street the price of a job can be shrinking wages. But you can also
:06:11. > :06:15.pay it by taking on the risks an employer by going self-employed. 48%
:06:16. > :06:18.of jobs were self-employed of the jobs created. Far more than
:06:19. > :06:22.previously. Craig is a plumber who has done well from the Government's
:06:23. > :06:27.free boiler scheme. I'm not worried it won't last, but I have done well.
:06:28. > :06:31.It is a Government-funded scheme, if they say no more funding it stops.
:06:32. > :06:35.In this street and the economy people are accepting the risks of
:06:36. > :06:38.self-employment, hours that fluctuate and pay that shrinks. The
:06:39. > :06:45.insecurity of work is a price people are showing they are prepared to pay
:06:46. > :06:49.just to have it. I'm joined to discuss what today's figures mean
:06:50. > :06:55.for the economy and those who work in it by the Treasury Minister,
:06:56. > :06:59.David Gauke and Labour's shadow Employment Minister, Stephen Timms.
:07:00. > :07:02.By any measure of employment these are dramatically good figures today
:07:03. > :07:05.aren't they? They are very encouraging figures, we have had to
:07:06. > :07:08.wait a very long time for them. We were told after the election the
:07:09. > :07:11.consequence of the Government's policies would be steady growth and
:07:12. > :07:14.falling unemployment. We have had to wait nearly four years for the
:07:15. > :07:18.figures. They are very encouraging. What I hope will happen now is the
:07:19. > :07:21.Government will seriously tackle the very large number of people who have
:07:22. > :07:26.been out of work for a long time. Over a quarter of million young
:07:27. > :07:32.people out of work for over a year, they need help to get back into work
:07:33. > :07:38.now. They need to be skilled up. And Lozell Street's example, Jahid
:07:39. > :07:42.working for ?6 and ?7, actually classed as in poverty. And you have
:07:43. > :07:46.someone working in the Royal Mail on a zero hours contract who can't get
:07:47. > :07:49.other work. People are in work but it is not high-skilled work or the
:07:50. > :08:01.work that is permanent and that you can rely? On? The first point is
:08:02. > :08:07.good news, the last quarter, 280,000 more people in work, since the last
:08:08. > :08:10.general election one. Three million people in work. It is worth pointing
:08:11. > :08:15.out that the vast majority of the new jobs created are full-time.
:08:16. > :08:20.Something like 80%. It is also worth pointing out that the average number
:08:21. > :08:26.of hours that workers are working now is 32. Two hours. That's exactly
:08:27. > :08:29.what the level was before the recession. So it is not the case
:08:30. > :08:33.that the labour market has moved over the last six years to lots of
:08:34. > :08:36.part-time work and so on, that hasn't changed fundamentally. When
:08:37. > :08:40.you hear what is happening in Birmingham, when you have got Land
:08:41. > :08:42.Rover, for example, who are doing incredibly well at the moment, and
:08:43. > :08:46.there are vacancies, particularly talking about young people, they
:08:47. > :08:49.just don't have the skills? It is an important point on skills, we do
:08:50. > :08:53.have a problem in this country, which is long standing and that's
:08:54. > :08:58.why there is a lot of work that's going on into for example improving
:08:59. > :09:01.the apprenticeship system, far more people going into apprenticeships
:09:02. > :09:06.than was the case before. It is why there is a focus on ensuring that
:09:07. > :09:10.our vocational training is up to standard and ensuring that employers
:09:11. > :09:13.have greater powers to ensure that apprenticeships are delivering what
:09:14. > :09:16.they need to do. Yes, there is a challenge on skills, that is part of
:09:17. > :09:22.the long-term economic plan to ensure that we get a wealthy
:09:23. > :09:25.prosperous country with a wealthy prosperous work force. I think there
:09:26. > :09:28.is a real problem here, there is a lack of co-ordination between skills
:09:29. > :09:32.support on the one hand and employment support on the other.
:09:33. > :09:35.People on the Work Programme, the flagship back to work scheme, hardly
:09:36. > :09:38.ever get on to the aweren't at thisesship, the two systems are
:09:39. > :09:41.managed separately and don't work together. That is one of the reasons
:09:42. > :09:48.why we are seeing the skills problem among people who ought to be skilled
:09:49. > :09:55.up for work now. Ed Miliband's point about cost of living, inflation is
:09:56. > :09:59.down and actually wages are rising at zero. Nine, inflation is coming
:10:00. > :10:03.down to 2%, you have lost that argument as well? I don't think that
:10:04. > :10:07.is the case. You are right, inflation is two. 1%, but prices,
:10:08. > :10:13.but wages are only going up at less than half of that, so the cost of
:10:14. > :10:16.living crisis is continuing. The average household ?1600 worse off
:10:17. > :10:19.since the election. If they keep travelling in that direction, which
:10:20. > :10:23.indications are they will keep travel anything that direction, then
:10:24. > :10:27.you run out of road. Ed Miliband has completely run out of road on his
:10:28. > :10:31.opposition to Government's economic policies? People in your film were
:10:32. > :10:35.clear this feels an uncertain and insecure recovery. People feel worse
:10:36. > :10:39.off, they are worse off. David Cameron says they are better off?
:10:40. > :10:43.The statistics say otherwise. There is a very large number of people who
:10:44. > :10:46.have been out of work for a long time. They need to be invested in to
:10:47. > :10:53.get them back into work to support the economy in the future. On the
:10:54. > :10:57.question of the 7% unemployment that we had heard once that it was
:10:58. > :11:01.changed, that Mark Carney said when we got to 7% unemployment then
:11:02. > :11:05.interest rates would be revisited. It is seven. 1%, he has revised
:11:06. > :11:11.that. Would you like to see that revised down to six. 5% or are we in
:11:12. > :11:14.a position ready to put up interest rates now you are the Exchequer to
:11:15. > :11:17.the Treasury? I think it is really important that we have an
:11:18. > :11:20.independent Monetary Policy Committee of the Bank of England,
:11:21. > :11:24.and the Bank of England makes these decisions. I don't think it is
:11:25. > :11:29.helpful for Treasury ministers to kind of give a running commentary on
:11:30. > :11:33.that. A simple answer would suffice? There is a reason why I'm not giving
:11:34. > :11:38.an answer, because I don't think that we as Treasury ministers should
:11:39. > :11:40.do the job of the Governor of the Bank of England. It is important
:11:41. > :11:45.that the Governor of the Bank of England and the Monday three --
:11:46. > :11:48.Monetary Policy Committee set out interest rate policy. It is their
:11:49. > :11:53.job to do, that and if ministers go and comment on all of that you
:11:54. > :11:57.undermine that independence. I don't think that would be helpful. Can the
:11:58. > :12:01.Employment Minister comment on it, would you like Mark Carney to revise
:12:02. > :12:06.looking at raising interest rates at six. 5%? I would leave that to the
:12:07. > :12:08.Monetary Policy Committee. What I would say, if there was a
:12:09. > :12:11.significant rise in interest rates there would be serious problems in
:12:12. > :12:15.the economy and around the country. Those would need to be weighed in
:12:16. > :12:18.the Monetary Policy Committee's deliberations.
:12:19. > :12:25.Such was the hostility between the two sides in the talks over Syria
:12:26. > :12:28.that US and UN fficials in Montreux said merely getting them in the same
:12:29. > :12:36.room was a victory. John Kerry stated from the outset that Casado's
:12:37. > :12:39.departure would only suffice in any sense. The two sides sit down
:12:40. > :12:44.together in Geneva. In a moment I will talk live to the Syrian regime,
:12:45. > :12:52.first here is our security correspondent. Syria, the worst most
:12:53. > :12:59.enduring conflict of our time. At least 100,000 dead and counting.
:13:00. > :13:04.Atrocities on both sides. So, can it be stopped? Today on the shores of
:13:05. > :13:08.Lake Geneva, the warring parties were brought bickering to the table.
:13:09. > :13:12.Trading accusation and counter accusation. TRANSLATION: All the
:13:13. > :13:18.victims in Syria are just to allow one man to remain on his throne. No
:13:19. > :13:26.throne has the value of one single innocent life. TRANSLATION: The
:13:27. > :13:30.media lawed these -- Laued these people, these terrorists by claiming
:13:31. > :13:35.they are moderates, they know full well they are extremists and
:13:36. > :13:38.terrorists. Even the UN Secretary-General struggled to keep
:13:39. > :13:58.things on track. Yourself, you live in New York, I live in Syria, I have
:13:59. > :14:03.the right to give the Syrian version, this is my right. We have
:14:04. > :14:05.to refrain from inflammatory remarks. This is my right. The
:14:06. > :14:32.quotes from today's say The expectations for these peace
:14:33. > :14:35.talks were always low, the two sides absolutely hate each other. Now over
:14:36. > :14:40.the next few days they may be able to find some kind of compromise,
:14:41. > :14:44.confidence-building measures like prisoner exchanges, better access
:14:45. > :14:50.for aid, even localised cease-fires. But the fundamental gap remains
:14:51. > :14:54.this, the Syrian Government says Mr Assad is not going. The opposition,
:14:55. > :14:59.especially the rebels doing the fighting say he has to go. And at
:15:00. > :15:04.the moment no amount of talking can bridge that gap.
:15:05. > :15:08.Then there is Iran, its President arrived in Davos today for the World
:15:09. > :15:14.Economic Forum. It is a key player in the Syrian STLIEG supplying arms
:15:15. > :15:17.and money to the Assad regime. The Iranian President said the peace
:15:18. > :15:21.talks are doom today fail, because, he said, some countries sponsoring
:15:22. > :15:27.terrorism were taking part. Iran is furious not to be invited. Its media
:15:28. > :15:31.joined in today calling it a fruitless summit, a failure before
:15:32. > :15:33.it started and slamming the UN Secretary-General for withdrawing
:15:34. > :15:37.Iran's invitation at the last minute. If the purpose is a
:15:38. > :15:41.cease-fire and a political settlement then all combatants and
:15:42. > :15:45.their external backers, countries like Saudi Arabia for the rebels and
:15:46. > :15:49.Iran for the regime will have to be at the table. But the problems is
:15:50. > :15:53.Iran refused to accept the agenda of the talks. It refused to accept that
:15:54. > :15:59.these peace talks were really about forming a transitional Government
:16:00. > :16:02.between the regime and the rebels. Nor are Syria's Jihadists present at
:16:03. > :16:07.the peace talks. They have accused opposition figures who have gone to
:16:08. > :16:11.Switzerland of being traitors. Internationally prescribed Al-Qaeda
:16:12. > :16:16.linked groups like Isis and others have emerged as the most capable
:16:17. > :16:27.forces fighting the Syrian regime. But their tactics are Barrious, but
:16:28. > :16:30.some may be importing their anti-western hatred back here. The
:16:31. > :16:34.importance for the UK for the conflict in Syria is to resolve it
:16:35. > :16:39.as quickly as possible, so any security risk to the UK from foreign
:16:40. > :16:44.fighters, going over there with perhaps good intentions and they
:16:45. > :16:48.will come back having been exposed to radical and extreme information.
:16:49. > :16:54.And believing that terrorism is a good way of carrying on the struggle
:16:55. > :16:58.here. Meanwhile Syria's human trage continues to multiply with millions
:16:59. > :17:02.displaced as refugees. We are desperately calling on Geneva to
:17:03. > :17:05.provide the humanitarian access, protection and system that will
:17:06. > :17:09.enable us to reach the people who are in desperate need. There is
:17:10. > :17:13.nine. Three million people waiting for that assistance.
:17:14. > :17:18.In Syria today there was no let up in the fighting. No victory in sight
:17:19. > :17:27.for either side. No political solution on the horizon. Syria's war
:17:28. > :17:33.looks set to continue. Earlier I asked Monzer Akbik Chief
:17:34. > :17:41.of Staff to the leader of the Syrian National Coalition that if despite
:17:42. > :17:45.today will there be a sit down with Assad and the negotiating team on
:17:46. > :17:50.Friday? Any way the negotiations will be mediated. The parties are
:17:51. > :17:56.not going to speak to each Other directly, we will speak to the
:17:57. > :18:00.representative and visa versa. The Friday session will take place. We
:18:01. > :18:06.will sit there but insist that the Assad regime should admit to the
:18:07. > :18:11.process platform which is the Geneva communique. They have to accept it.
:18:12. > :18:14.Today his Foreign Minister's speech did not mention Geneva at all. He's
:18:15. > :18:18.still in a state of denial. So we will insist that we should put the
:18:19. > :18:22.document in place and should be implemented. If they continue to you
:18:23. > :18:30.know not to adhere to that document then there will be big problems.
:18:31. > :18:34.Would you be prepared to see a Government of National Unity in
:18:35. > :18:39.Syria, which also had members of the Assad regime within it. Not
:18:40. > :18:44.President Assad, but the Assad regime working with all other
:18:45. > :18:49.Syrians. The process, the Geneva communique
:18:50. > :18:55.sa that there should be formation of transitional governs body with full
:18:56. > :18:59.authority. Now this governing body means that all the authorities of
:19:00. > :19:06.Assad should be transferred to that transitional governing body. In
:19:07. > :19:10.terms of the people from the regime there are people there, we have a
:19:11. > :19:14.white list of people who did not commit crimes against humanity and
:19:15. > :19:17.war crimes. They are employees of the regime. They cannot show that
:19:18. > :19:22.they are against the regime, because they are afraid for their lives and
:19:23. > :19:25.the lives of the families. We can work with those people. But Assad
:19:26. > :19:29.himself and his associates and officers, who have blood on their
:19:30. > :19:33.hands, they should be out of that process. This is exactly what the
:19:34. > :19:40.Geneva communique says. Thank you very much indeed. Joining
:19:41. > :19:45.me live now from Montreux is Montreux Bouthaina Shaaban, the
:19:46. > :19:53.political adviser to President Assad. Good evening. People around
:19:54. > :20:00.the world, countries present in Montreux, and people in Syria want
:20:01. > :20:05.peace. Do you want peace? Of course I want peace, everybody in Syria
:20:06. > :20:10.wants peace. That's why we are here. We're here north to stop these
:20:11. > :20:16.horrors that are being perpetrated against our people. We're here
:20:17. > :20:22.because we want Syria to get back to its secure, peaceful and beautiful
:20:23. > :20:27.life that we used to live before this horrid war has started. You
:20:28. > :20:31.will have heard Monzer Akbik saying, from the Syrian National Council
:20:32. > :20:41.side that he is ready to talk on Friday, are you ready to talk on
:20:42. > :20:51.Friday too? Well, we are going to talk through the United Nations but
:20:52. > :20:54.what I heard in the report with our interviewee, the Geneva one is
:20:55. > :20:59.subject to different interpretations. I think the basic
:21:00. > :21:06.point should be how to save Syria and how to save the Syrian people.
:21:07. > :21:08.It is not about power, it is about not authority, it is not about
:21:09. > :21:15.Government, it is about Syria and the lives of millions of Syrian
:21:16. > :21:26.people. If we, if everybody puts that into account then solutions can
:21:27. > :21:31.be found. And would that solution, as we were told, one possible
:21:32. > :21:35.solution, he said, was that in any future settlement it was perfectly
:21:36. > :21:39.possible that in a Government of National Unity you would have people
:21:40. > :21:43.that had been in President Assad's regime but not President Assad. Do
:21:44. > :21:46.you think for the good of the country there would ever be a
:21:47. > :21:49.situation where President Assad would leave other people in place
:21:50. > :21:53.but realise it was the right time for him to go? I really believe who
:21:54. > :21:58.is going to be in Government and who is not going to be in Government
:21:59. > :22:03.should be the decision of the Syrian people. After all they are saying
:22:04. > :22:07.that they want democracy in Syria, and I think democracy everywhere in
:22:08. > :22:11.the world comes through the ballot box, not through a Foreign Secretary
:22:12. > :22:19.of a foreign country saying who should be in Government and who
:22:20. > :22:26.should not be in Government it is --. It is unfortunate that Syrian
:22:27. > :22:32.groups are all lining with forces that are not seeking the good of the
:22:33. > :22:37.Syrian people. It would be fair to say that the Syrian National
:22:38. > :22:40.Council, although they would admit that they are not the only
:22:41. > :22:45.opposition force that happens to be fighting in Syria, it would be fair
:22:46. > :22:53.to say that the Syrian National Council wants to have a negotiated
:22:54. > :22:59.settlement. I would like to know who these people represent. We have a
:23:00. > :23:04.wide spectrum of national opposition in Syria, over 20 political parties
:23:05. > :23:10.and all these people were not invited to the conference. I would
:23:11. > :23:13.like to know who niece people represent in Syria. Do they
:23:14. > :23:17.represent the terrorists who are killing and kidnapping. Or do they
:23:18. > :23:22.represent other forces that we don't know of. I think the test for
:23:23. > :23:28.everybody is elections. They should go through the ballot box, they
:23:29. > :23:31.should not, Syrian Governments are not formed in Geneva or Montreux, it
:23:32. > :23:36.should be formed by the Syrian people in Syria, for the benefit of
:23:37. > :23:42.Syria and the Syrian people. So to be quite clear that the ballot box
:23:43. > :23:46.is king in Syria? That actually you would have a free and fair election
:23:47. > :23:55.in a country that is widely regarded as being a dictatorship Well Geneva
:23:56. > :24:00.is the one that speak about it. It says there should be no political
:24:01. > :24:03.vacuum and we should keep our institutions or whatever it is left
:24:04. > :24:06.of it, because the terrorists have destroyed our institutions. Then it
:24:07. > :24:12.says a political process should be put in place. Everyone is reading
:24:13. > :24:20.the document of Geneva and it has been subjected to many different
:24:21. > :24:24.interpretations. But I think the basic... Go on. You heard John Kerry
:24:25. > :24:30.say there can be no settlement, there is no legitimacy for Mr Assad.
:24:31. > :24:39.If there is an absolute insistence that he goes, is there no basis for
:24:40. > :24:43.any negotiation at all? I would like to ask you what do you think as a
:24:44. > :24:52.western woman of John Kerry saying that about a President of another
:24:53. > :24:55.country. Do you think it is acceptable for a Secretary of State
:24:56. > :24:58.from anywhere to decide that a President of a different country
:24:59. > :25:03.should go or stay. Do you think this is democratic or colonial. It is not
:25:04. > :25:07.for me to say. I'm simply asking a question, if for the good of the
:25:08. > :25:10.country, and if for the good of Syria, President Assad stepped
:25:11. > :25:13.aside, would that not be for the good of the country. Which would
:25:14. > :25:20.allow nine million people to return to their homes? We heard stories
:25:21. > :25:25.before, look what they did in Iraq look what they did in Libya. Total
:25:26. > :25:29.bay I don'ts and destruction, we have to question what they are
:25:30. > :25:35.saying and why they are saying it. Any way this is not helpable for
:25:36. > :25:41.Syrians, for more Syrians. If it is acceptable for these people who are
:25:42. > :25:45.saying paid to stay in five-star hotel, th don't represent the Syrian
:25:46. > :25:54.people, it is the people who should decide. January 22nd is celebrated
:25:55. > :25:57.in the Ukraine as the country's day of national unity, overnight three
:25:58. > :26:03.people died in the first fatalities since the anti-Government protests
:26:04. > :26:08.over membership of the European Union began two months ago. Two died
:26:09. > :26:13.in gunshot wounds, and another plunged from the top of the football
:26:14. > :26:17.stadium after fighting with police. It jolted opposition leaders and the
:26:18. > :26:24.President into talks. Tonight fires are still rages in Kiev, and the
:26:25. > :26:27.protesters are back in Independence Square.
:26:28. > :26:31.I'm on Independence Square, it is coming up to 1.00 in the morning, it
:26:32. > :26:35.is cold and knowing. But there are still a few00 protesters out here on
:26:36. > :26:39.the square listening to speeches. The place where the clashes have
:26:40. > :26:44.been going on is a few hundred yards down the road. As you said two,
:26:45. > :26:47.possibly three people were killed in the early hours of the morning. The
:26:48. > :26:50.official figure is two but it is almost certainly more than that,
:26:51. > :26:54.more than three. A colleague of mine saw another dead body being dragged
:26:55. > :26:59.out by police earlier this afternoon. We don't really know what
:27:00. > :27:02.the real figure is. Both sides are blaming each other for these deaths.
:27:03. > :27:06.The Government says they haven't been firing with live ammunition, so
:27:07. > :27:09.if people have been shot it must have been the protestors. The
:27:10. > :27:13.protestors are saying it is Government snipers. The protest
:27:14. > :27:19.leaders have been coming out today demanding that the President call
:27:20. > :27:23.snap elections. Without some kind of giving way on somebody's side it is
:27:24. > :27:28.very difficult to see how this situation is going to be calmed down
:27:29. > :27:32.just at the moment. After three hours of talk there was
:27:33. > :27:34.talk that the opposition would come back to Independence Square and
:27:35. > :27:40.relay the conversation that was had. Are you saying that all that was
:27:41. > :27:46.relaid was their redemand for snap election -- relayed was their demand
:27:47. > :27:52.for snap elections? They have given the President an ultimatum of 24
:27:53. > :27:55.hours, and the leader of the disparate group of protestors has
:27:56. > :27:59.said that if doesn't announce these snap elections then he will
:28:00. > :28:03.personally lead what he called "the attack" on the square. We don't know
:28:04. > :28:06.exactly what that means. I should say also there are far right groups
:28:07. > :28:10.involved in the protesters, but many, many of them, the majority of
:28:11. > :28:18.the protesters have been peaceful. This really is a stand-off now of
:28:19. > :28:22.which there is no end in sight. The maelstrom surrounding the behaviour
:28:23. > :28:25.of the Liberal Democrat peer Lord Rennard has resulted in a media
:28:26. > :28:28.conversation across newspapers and social media, about the way to
:28:29. > :28:32.respond to unwelcome advances in the work place and the ability or lack
:28:33. > :28:38.of it to speak out about it. Nick Clegg met Liberal Democrat peers
:28:39. > :28:41.this afternoon to discuss the Lord Rennard case, he was adamant he
:28:42. > :28:45.wouldn't back down over his demand that the peer should apologise to
:28:46. > :28:48.the four women activists who lodged complaints against him. Lord Rennard
:28:49. > :28:53.strongly denies the allegations against him. For his part, today
:28:54. > :28:58.Nick Clegg, speaking on LBC accepted that his party had mishandled the
:28:59. > :29:03.affair. Let me about be open I think the way we handled it last year was
:29:04. > :29:07.not great or ideal. On your watch? Yes. And more than that, much more
:29:08. > :29:11.seriously than that, looking much further back it is quite clear that
:29:12. > :29:15.when the women were first caused this distress, many, many years ago,
:29:16. > :29:22.and I think in many cases well before I was an MP the party did not
:29:23. > :29:25.react, the alarm bells didn't go off and there weren't procedures. That
:29:26. > :29:30.is why I have apologised to them in person and publicly. So has the Lord
:29:31. > :29:34.Rennard case served to raise questions about how to act when
:29:35. > :29:37.faced with a sex pest. Who better to ask than three women across the
:29:38. > :29:41.generations have seen a thing or two. They are the journalist and
:29:42. > :29:48.broadcaster and much else besides, Bakewell, the Labour MP, Stella
:29:49. > :29:53.Creasey, and television journalist and presenter Anne Robinson.
:29:54. > :29:56.Joan Bakewell is some of this a generational issue? It is quite
:29:57. > :30:00.clear that older people are taking the view it is not much harm, what
:30:01. > :30:04.is hand on a knee between friends, it doesn't matter much. They are
:30:05. > :30:07.making a fuss and it is unnecessary. And the young women who are the part
:30:08. > :30:11.of the completely liberated generation are saying, I'm sorry,
:30:12. > :30:14.absolutely it is against the rules, we not having it. They are being
:30:15. > :30:18.adamant in the way that both sides are being adamant and they are
:30:19. > :30:21.failing to see. Is that because older women there was no recourse?
:30:22. > :30:26.There was no recourse because the entire culture was behaving in this
:30:27. > :30:31.way. When I was younger. Did you ever face that kind of you know,
:30:32. > :30:38.what was it Michael White called it the "clammy hand"? All the time, of
:30:39. > :30:42.course. As a young woman without power or when you were older? When I
:30:43. > :30:47.was in my early 30s I was working on television and it was quite common,
:30:48. > :30:53.both guests and on the programme, would give you a quick grope, other
:30:54. > :30:56.colleagues would give you a grope, report to the editor, the editor was
:30:57. > :31:01.doing it. It was part of the culture. And I mean, this is the
:31:02. > :31:05.response, and I'm really interested to know if Anne Robinson faced the
:31:06. > :31:09.same thing. What was your response? Your response was well you grew up
:31:10. > :31:15.knowing that this is what men did, some of them, not all of them
:31:16. > :31:19.obviously. You learned social behaviours that pre-empted what was
:31:20. > :31:24.going to happen. You got used to anticipating. You mentally
:31:25. > :31:29.pre-empted it? You anticipated it happening, you could take steps,
:31:30. > :31:33.move away, ask to stop, whatever. Deal with it. Which is in a sense
:31:34. > :31:39.what they are still asking today, and it is too late. Is it acceptable
:31:40. > :31:41.to still ask to deal with it? I think Joan's right, I think it was
:31:42. > :31:45.slightly better when my generation, which was the next one came along,
:31:46. > :31:50.but I can't ever remember it happening to me. Maybe I wasn't
:31:51. > :31:54.attractive enough. But when I think that since the 60s such fabulous
:31:55. > :31:59.things have happened for women, the glass ceilings have disappeared, you
:32:00. > :32:03.know. For some women? Clever girls become clever engineers and get the
:32:04. > :32:07.jobs they deserve. What astonishes me in all that progress that no-one
:32:08. > :32:13.has thought that women have to learn how to deal with treachery. I'm not
:32:14. > :32:16.Chris sizing women -- criticising women, learn how to deal with
:32:17. > :32:21.treachery in the work place. It is sad that really clever women like
:32:22. > :32:24.these Lib Dem women, clever educated never felt that they could deal with
:32:25. > :32:29.it at the time or that they could deal with it and were frightened to
:32:30. > :32:32.have their names mentioned so many years later.
:32:33. > :32:36.As a younger woman in this mix, what do you make of that, we must say
:32:37. > :32:40.these are allegations which Lord Rennard strenuously denies, four
:32:41. > :32:44.younger women, why do you younger women not feel that the law is
:32:45. > :32:49.there, the civil law, the criminal law there to help them? Because and
:32:50. > :32:53.I think this discussion sums up precisely the problem, why is it
:32:54. > :32:56.four women sitting around talking about how can we cope with
:32:57. > :32:59.behaviours rather than a mix of both. Men are concerned about this
:33:00. > :33:03.behaviour as well. We're not making the progress that we think we are
:33:04. > :33:08.making, Anne, and part of it is these kinds of problemsment we are
:33:09. > :33:13.are 100 years on with women being called rabbits for being given a
:33:14. > :33:17.vote. We are only a 80-20 society, four out of five of my colleagues
:33:18. > :33:21.are men. It is not any different in society, it is the same in media and
:33:22. > :33:25.universities, we are a minority. I think one of the reasons why is
:33:26. > :33:29.because we are asking women to cope with these kinds of behaviours, we
:33:30. > :33:32.are sort of saying it is up to us to adapt to the world as it is, rather
:33:33. > :33:36.than men and women to come together and say how can we have equality.
:33:37. > :33:41.That is not strictly true, I am what I'm saying if women could be
:33:42. > :33:50.encouraged to learn how to cope and not be bullied. How about we tell
:33:51. > :34:00.men to stop doing it? Why do we have to cope? No-one has made Lord
:34:01. > :34:04.Rennard think or make it inconvenient to for him to behave
:34:05. > :34:09.that way. It is not fair fight. We are not talking about a clumsy pass,
:34:10. > :34:13.we are talking about somebody in a position of authority who is alleged
:34:14. > :34:16.to have abused that position of authority. Do you think anybody
:34:17. > :34:21.would come up to any of us women sitting here and attempt to put a,
:34:22. > :34:28.man put their hand up our skirt, of course not because we are formidable
:34:29. > :34:33.women. Hang on 20 something starting out. Do you think men have any
:34:34. > :34:36.responsibility in this debate. Let's stop finding ways of focussing on
:34:37. > :34:40.women's behaviour and say what is the behaviour everyone should
:34:41. > :34:43.accept, and what does equality start. It starts with women not
:34:44. > :34:46.putting up with it. We have to start with men stopping. Some of the
:34:47. > :34:50.response in the papers has been that a swift knee to the groin would do.
:34:51. > :34:54.But actually is this not what Stella is saying, which is why should women
:34:55. > :34:58.have to respond? I quite agree with her. We have come a long way, it is
:34:59. > :35:01.a long journey this. It is a long journey and we have already got law
:35:02. > :35:06.on board. And we want to see that. Do you think a lot of young women
:35:07. > :35:09.who are harassed at the work place would even think that they could go
:35:10. > :35:12.to the law. Because would they really, really think that it would
:35:13. > :35:15.do them any good, either with their colleagues or actually with their
:35:16. > :35:19.careers, isn't this the problem that it is still not taken seriously
:35:20. > :35:23.enough? That is why it is a watershed moment. Women have to feel
:35:24. > :35:27.they can do that. The reason they don't is that there are various
:35:28. > :35:31.social reasons, we are living through an absolute inuna decision
:35:32. > :35:34.of highly sexualised, advertising, pop music, culture, fashion and so
:35:35. > :35:38.on. They are part of that view as well. And they lack the confidence
:35:39. > :35:43.to do it because one they could lose out socially, two they could be
:35:44. > :35:47.losing out professionally, they don't feel able to act, which is why
:35:48. > :35:52.we have got to give them the confidence to know that the law is
:35:53. > :35:55.on their side and so are half the population. Do you think the
:35:56. > :35:59.majority of young women know that unwanted sexual touching is a
:36:00. > :36:03.criminal offence? And harassment in the work place is a civil offence?
:36:04. > :36:07.Even if you know that, until you are in that position yourself. I don't
:36:08. > :36:11.want bomb to feel they have -- women to feel they have to be formidable
:36:12. > :36:13.to deal with these situations, I want them to know they will be
:36:14. > :36:17.believed and it will be taken seriously. That isn't about the
:36:18. > :36:20.person themselves. We have to stop focussing on the person would making
:36:21. > :36:22.the accusation, and why not a culture saying we have these laws
:36:23. > :36:27.for a reason, because actually nobody should have to put up with
:36:28. > :36:30.this, male or female. Thank you very much indeed.
:36:31. > :36:39.The UK is the biggest western importer of a leaf called
:36:40. > :36:42.Chhattisgarh, a stimulant Khat, the Home Secretary has banned t in the
:36:43. > :36:46.next few months it will be classified as a Class C drug. We
:36:47. > :37:01.asked the magazine and TV channel, Vice to look at the superintendant
:37:02. > :37:07.for us. Khat grows on trees across South
:37:08. > :37:12.Africa. For most drinkers and drug users the effects are so minor they
:37:13. > :37:18.barely registered, but for the Somali community it is a way of
:37:19. > :37:27.life. Every day Somali men head to their chewing cafe to chew KHAT and
:37:28. > :37:40.talk. Theresa May has announced plans to ban the stuff so it all
:37:41. > :37:49.might end. The talk of banning Khat has brought shivers. It is banned in
:37:50. > :37:54.most countries across Europe. Anti-Chait Khat campaigners say it
:37:55. > :38:01.ruins families, and encourages Somali groups. People who grow
:38:02. > :38:06.insist it should be talked of more like coffee and less like the end of
:38:07. > :38:10.the world. We went to meet the largest Khat importer in the UK. We
:38:11. > :38:17.are importing from Kenya and Nairobi. We have 5,128 kilos. The
:38:18. > :38:20.ban on Khat will be disastrous for your business? Most of the people
:38:21. > :38:26.who are employed will go jobless. This is the biggest Khat warehouse
:38:27. > :38:30.in Europe, the delivery of the week has been coming in. It will be
:38:31. > :38:39.driven as far as Devon, Britain's Khat goes far and wide. Amazingly
:38:40. > :38:44.every piece of Khat shifted from the warehouse in Heathrow was sitting on
:38:45. > :38:48.a tree in Kenya 24 hours ago. Kenya supplies so much Khat to the UK,
:38:49. > :38:54.that whole regions are economically relianten to. One such place is in
:38:55. > :38:59.Nairobi, a huge suburb of the Kenyan capital, most recently known for
:39:00. > :39:07.being the home of the Malattack in September. This is the repackaging
:39:08. > :39:11.plant, this is one of ten hangers around the place.
:39:12. > :39:16.How much of this whole business, all of this stuff is for the UK market?
:39:17. > :39:21.Everything here is for the UK market. All of it? And how much
:39:22. > :39:26.money comes from the UK here? On a conservative estimate I think it is
:39:27. > :39:31.about two billion Kenyan money. You are a billionare? Not yet, we are
:39:32. > :39:35.trying before Theresa May interferes. Some people claim that
:39:36. > :39:40.the money that comes from Khat funds terrorism? That is the most
:39:41. > :39:46.unsubstantiated statement I have ever heard. The extremists guys are
:39:47. > :39:50.against mirra, they say if you are chewing it is an abomination to God.
:39:51. > :39:54.How is something that they don't allow in their description of Islam
:39:55. > :39:57.then take the money and fund the terror, I think that is a misnomer.
:39:58. > :40:02.It is not there. Clearly people in the UK do have something of a big
:40:03. > :40:08.Khat habit, four times a week this amount of Khat is flown to London.
:40:09. > :40:14.We're about half way through a five-hour journey from Nairobi to a
:40:15. > :40:19.place where 90% of all the Khat is grown that ends up in the mouths of
:40:20. > :40:24.the UK citizens. When the UK ban kicks in, the region will go to from
:40:25. > :40:31.being one of the richest in Kenya to being broke. This is the mirra tree.
:40:32. > :40:36.Funny to know those dried up bitter roots that end up being chewed in
:40:37. > :40:41.Kentish Town in London come from trees like this and guys picking it
:40:42. > :40:48.like this. This whole place is run through Khat. How long have you been
:40:49. > :40:56.growing mirra? All my life. That one is the oldest one, the oldest the
:40:57. > :41:03.mirra the sweeter it is. These guys are bunkedling it up and stuck it in
:41:04. > :41:06.a struck to be sorted and sent around Kenya. Every day mirra is
:41:07. > :41:11.going all over the world. If it is banned in the UK it will affect
:41:12. > :41:15.every sector of economy in the Meru community. Do you think that many
:41:16. > :41:22.people around here will lose their jobs? A lot of people will lose
:41:23. > :41:26.their jobs, thousands, we are giving money and we want to fundraise 13
:41:27. > :41:32.million shillings. If Arabs don't sell petrol can they survive? They
:41:33. > :41:35.can't. One of the biggest weapons of the anti-Khat movement has been the
:41:36. > :41:39.supposed link between the trade and terrorism. US and British counter
:41:40. > :41:44.terror officials have claimed the trade is linked to Al-Shabaab. The
:41:45. > :41:47.studies by the UK's advisory council on the misuse of drugs, and experts
:41:48. > :41:52.from the UN, have found little or nothing to support this. When we
:41:53. > :41:58.asked local guys who packaged the drug about Al-Shabaab, they claimed
:41:59. > :42:02.it would have the opposite effect. If they ban mirra we don't have
:42:03. > :42:06.anything to find, and the people come and brainwash us and say we can
:42:07. > :42:10.give you money to turn you become Al-Shabaab. We will become
:42:11. > :42:19.Al-Shabaab because we don't have anything, this mirra it helps us. It
:42:20. > :42:25.is bringing food on the table. A We have some people here in this tiny
:42:26. > :42:30.little building, smuggling it to the states on a daily basis. If it is
:42:31. > :42:48.banned in the UK will you traffic it illegally? Will it be more
:42:49. > :42:51.profitable? This is a box of Khat being easily transported to the
:42:52. > :42:55.United States, where it has been illegal for 20 years. You stuck it
:42:56. > :42:57.in a box and you write a name on it and post it to the person who wants
:42:58. > :43:43.it. The most famous of all the anti-Khat
:43:44. > :43:49.campaigners is this man. A UK Somali who said he once struggled with his
:43:50. > :43:55.own Khat addiction. Now he broadcasts a weekly TV show where he
:43:56. > :43:59.preaches his anti-Khat message. Welcome to the show. Why do you
:44:00. > :44:04.believe it should be banned? It is a drug and should be banned across the
:44:05. > :44:10.globe. And GoSave the Queen, finally the UK will ban it and we welcome
:44:11. > :44:15.that. A huge majority of the Somali community are upset and angry? I
:44:16. > :44:30.don't agree, that is not accurate, the Somali community is praying for
:44:31. > :44:50.The places where people chew Khat are like this. Is this where you
:44:51. > :44:55.come and hang out? This is it, whole bunch of people hanging out chatting
:44:56. > :44:59.to each other, it is really friendly and chilled out, a bit buzzy. It is
:45:00. > :45:09.a good vibe. We are having a nice time.
:45:10. > :45:11.Just the daily Mail tomorrow morning, and more on the Liberal
:45:12. > :45:32.Democrats. That's all for tonight, tomorrow
:45:33. > :45:38.Jeremy will be in Davos where he will be talking to amongst others
:45:39. > :45:43.Bill Gates. We leave you with a celebration of the beauty of the
:45:44. > :45:47.male form in motion. Two special ballet performances next week. Here
:45:48. > :45:49.is the former Royal Ballet principal, Ivan Putrov, dancing to
:45:50. > :46:11.Johnny Cash's Hurt. # What have I become?
:46:12. > :46:15.# My sweetest friend # Everyone I know
:46:16. > :46:26.# Goes away # In the end
:46:27. > :46:34.# And you could have it all # My empire of birth
:46:35. > :46:46.# I will let you down # I will make you hurt
:46:47. > :46:56.# If I could start again # A million miles away
:46:57. > :47:19.# I would keep myself # I would
:47:20. > :47:27.A line of showers will be rattling across the country first thing in
:47:28. > :47:28.the morning. A bit of snow above the high ground in the north. It won't