:00:08. > :00:12.Hello from the backroom of the George pub in the village of
:00:13. > :00:15.Wraysbury on the not so lovely banks of the River Thames, or where the
:00:16. > :00:19.banks used to be. The boxer Henry Cooper used to train in this room,
:00:20. > :00:22.apparently. Tonight, we've filled it with some of the people who've felt
:00:23. > :00:25.the consequences of the wettest bit of weather for a couple of hundred
:00:26. > :00:32.years. Facing them, the Cabinet Minister, Philip Hammond. People
:00:33. > :00:36.here have discovered to their cost what living on a flood plain can
:00:37. > :00:40.mean and how very fragile are many of the assumptions on which modern
:00:41. > :00:44.life is based. What you really notice is how some houses have
:00:45. > :00:50.escaped almost unscathed and others are perhaps less well designed and
:00:51. > :00:54.have seen the floodwater warning in. -- pouring in. The Prime Minister
:00:55. > :00:56.has chosen to make this a test of his government, although he
:00:57. > :00:59.discovered today that putting flesh on bones is much more complicated
:01:00. > :01:02.than merely making promises. When you say money is no object, are you
:01:03. > :01:09.setting yourself up as a hostage to fortune? At what stage do you save
:01:10. > :01:20.the tap has to be turned off? -- say. This is the highest point in
:01:21. > :01:24.the village, an island of dryness surrounded by wetness. Apart from a
:01:25. > :01:27.bit of aircraft noise, which you might hear a little of, it's
:01:28. > :01:30.normally a quiet enough place. Lots of people work at Heathrow so it's
:01:31. > :01:34.an occupational hazard. It's not stockbroker belt but is part of a
:01:35. > :01:39.constituency which has sent a Conservative MP to Westminster since
:01:40. > :01:42.Benjamin Disraeli was Tory leader. David Cameron has made helping those
:01:43. > :01:47.afflicted by what in earlier times was considered an act of God a test
:01:48. > :01:54.of his government. Here in the bar, a few of the locals. With me are two
:01:55. > :02:01.of the flood wardens. What is a moot? We are elated we have got the
:02:02. > :02:07.military in, it was very emotional and frustrating. This sounds like
:02:08. > :02:12.the contradiction. We are elated we have the military. And frustrated at
:02:13. > :02:16.the flooding. I saw the flood warnings on the ground but we have
:02:17. > :02:23.the military and the police in and everybody else to help. We have
:02:24. > :02:27.always been on our own. 2003, totally on our own with no support
:02:28. > :02:33.or back-up. We had a little bit of help. You are quite impressed by the
:02:34. > :02:41.government? They are great, aren't they? Not! Thank you very much. We
:02:42. > :02:45.are here because David Cameron has made this an issue on which his
:02:46. > :02:49.government will be judged. His words were that money would be no object.
:02:50. > :02:55.As Emily Maitlis reports, easier said than done. It has been called
:02:56. > :03:00.an almost on map -- unparalleled crisis. Not the kind of language we
:03:01. > :03:05.normally used to describe Britain. When you add the hundreds rescued
:03:06. > :03:09.from home county Surrey, many more have been told not to step outside
:03:10. > :03:16.and you realise this is uncharted water and that means throwing
:03:17. > :03:24.whatever you can at it to make it. -- make it better. The first
:03:25. > :03:32.question tonight is, the Prime Minister announced that what would
:03:33. > :03:39.be no object? Money is no object in this relief effort. That is right,
:03:40. > :03:43.money. OK, this time, when asked about future spending, the transport
:03:44. > :03:52.Secretary says he does not think it is a blank cheque? That is right,
:03:53. > :03:56.the word is blank. Today, a certain degree of confusion about what Terry
:03:57. > :04:02.Wogan might once have called the cheque-book and ten. Something
:04:03. > :04:06.exploited by the Labour leader in the Commons as he forged the PM to
:04:07. > :04:11.address forthcoming redundancies of the Environment Agency. Giving
:04:12. > :04:14.yesterday 's promise to make sure we have a resilient country for the
:04:15. > :04:20.future and spend whatever it takes, busy committing to reconsidering
:04:21. > :04:25.these redundancies and the amount of money we invest in flood defences?
:04:26. > :04:28.No clarity on that one from David Cameron but then Labour stands
:04:29. > :04:33.accused of making cuts to flood investment when it was in power. No
:04:34. > :04:37.political party will pick a fight about money for flood victims at a
:04:38. > :04:43.time when the country is in a national emergency to do so -- to do
:04:44. > :04:47.so would be suicide. But the heart of these exchanges asks a bigger
:04:48. > :04:51.question is how much will political priorities change going forward when
:04:52. > :04:54.the watcher receives and the sun comes out? Will still be the same
:04:55. > :05:01.financial commitment to making Britain more resilient for the next
:05:02. > :05:05.time around? -- watcher receives. These scenes are to familiar in our
:05:06. > :05:10.homes. Communities already feeling they could not take any more have
:05:11. > :05:15.been tipped over the edge by more rain. There are ways around this but
:05:16. > :05:22.at what cost? The Environment Agency talks of a lower tens strategy,
:05:23. > :05:28.prevention to cover 21,000 homes. But this option is expensive and
:05:29. > :05:31.some ?500 million, a plan for the next century and a relatively short
:05:32. > :05:37.span of actual river. That is just the money. We need conviction. Six
:05:38. > :05:40.months ago the Conservative Environment Secretary claimed they
:05:41. > :05:44.could even be benefits to global warming. He suggested fewer people
:05:45. > :05:49.would die of cold in winter, more crops would grow in the North. Food
:05:50. > :05:55.for thought for David Cameron, whose slogan once boasted of old blue and
:05:56. > :05:59.go green. This represents a strand of the community -- Conservative
:06:00. > :06:03.Party which has been to deny that climate change has had a big impact
:06:04. > :06:08.on Britain and this will make a lot of people in the Conservative Party
:06:09. > :06:12.and others think again. And I think for people like the Lib Dems, who
:06:13. > :06:16.have been more consistent in standing up and talking about how we
:06:17. > :06:21.must take action. The relief measures or a solid start. If
:06:22. > :06:24.?500,000 repair grant for all affected homeowners and businesses.
:06:25. > :06:31.100 present business rate relief for three months and three months longer
:06:32. > :06:35.to pick as Ms taxes. ?10 million for farmers suffering from waterlogged
:06:36. > :06:38.fields and more than ?750 million from major banks to lend financial
:06:39. > :06:42.support to businesses and customers affected. But there are still plenty
:06:43. > :06:47.of confusion surrounding the future protection of homes and who gets it.
:06:48. > :06:51.The legislation currently going through the Lords would take away
:06:52. > :06:54.the safety blanket currently offered to small businesses. That is the
:06:55. > :07:02.automatic renewal of insurance policies if they are on flood
:07:03. > :07:05.events. The new system, it would not extend to anything deemed a
:07:06. > :07:08.commercial interest. That means a village pub or a bed and breakfast
:07:09. > :07:14.would not get cover. Even if it was your home. Every lifeline thrown
:07:15. > :07:18.there are other voices, inevitably complaining that money is not going
:07:19. > :07:21.to them. Last week it was historically, this week we are being
:07:22. > :07:25.told the country is wealthy again. National optimism might be in short
:07:26. > :07:29.supply right now but talk of prosperity can make people bold and
:07:30. > :07:32.bold people ask for more. Herbs the PM or at least as Chancellor might
:07:33. > :07:48.be wishing he had kept the cheque-book under wraps. With us to
:07:49. > :07:51.discuss this is an audience of locals, experts, voices from here
:07:52. > :07:57.and beyond and the Defence Secretary. Just before we talk, can
:07:58. > :08:05.we hear a couple of voices from the audience. What do you think of the
:08:06. > :08:08.way this has been handled so far? It has been handled reasonably well by
:08:09. > :08:16.the government, the Environment Agency have handled this very badly.
:08:17. > :08:21.In the village, they brought in 200 soldiers and sailors and build a
:08:22. > :08:26.sandbag wall up to the wire fence so the water ran around. I do not think
:08:27. > :08:31.the Environment Agency has been at all confident. Leaving aside the
:08:32. > :08:36.question of the army coming in, which was a recent intervention, up
:08:37. > :08:43.to that point, who he was impressed by the way this has been handled?
:08:44. > :08:50.Nobody? Hannah, where you impressed? You are not local but you are under
:08:51. > :08:52.30? I was impressed with the way the event was forecasted and the
:08:53. > :08:58.Environment Agency did an excellent job. That is important, being
:08:59. > :09:03.prepared. There are things that need to be adjusted, should this happen
:09:04. > :09:06.again. Some people are unhappy here. Phillip Hammond, are you proud of
:09:07. > :09:11.the way this has been handled? We can always learn lessons. I think my
:09:12. > :09:15.observation is what people in this particular community feel
:09:16. > :09:19.particularly aggrieved about is that other communities along the river
:09:20. > :09:22.appear to have been treated in a different way and that is something
:09:23. > :09:29.we have to understand the reasons for. Is that true? And gentleman
:09:30. > :09:34.talked about sandbagging that took place and I am no expert but I am
:09:35. > :09:36.told there are a difference is around the topography that make it
:09:37. > :09:42.work in some places and not in others. What were the mistakes? In
:09:43. > :09:45.the fullness of time we will want to look at how things were done and
:09:46. > :09:50.where they could have been done better so we can learn. I cannot sit
:09:51. > :09:57.here in the middle of a crisis and say... Yes, you can. You have got
:09:58. > :10:02.things in mind. In the fullness of time, we should look at what was
:10:03. > :10:07.done, where and we should analyse those decisions. I am being told
:10:08. > :10:11.that the reason the work was done in Dachett on Monday and not here was
:10:12. > :10:17.simply due to the topography and the practical effect that could be
:10:18. > :10:22.delivered. I am not an expert, I cannot validate that statement but
:10:23. > :10:26.in time, people who are experts will want to look at these assessments
:10:27. > :10:31.and decide if they were right or wrong. Can you help us with some
:10:32. > :10:36.other things? Eric Pickles. One day he says that he got bad advice from
:10:37. > :10:43.the Environment Agency and the next he says he is full of confidence? Is
:10:44. > :10:48.he just forgetting things? The time right now is not the time for
:10:49. > :10:53.stirring up fights in different agencies and organisations. We all
:10:54. > :10:57.have to pull together. I am worried about Eric Pickles. In due course
:10:58. > :11:02.will be a proper time for analysing the advice given and indeed the
:11:03. > :11:06.policy positions that were adopted. For example, around dredging. We
:11:07. > :11:13.will want to look at those and form a view about whether the advice and
:11:14. > :11:18.the policies were right or wrong. I am worried about his recollection,
:11:19. > :11:22.that is all. You might be but what I say is that I do not think this is
:11:23. > :11:27.the right time to be stirring up disputes in different agencies. He
:11:28. > :11:31.is the one who said he got bad advice. The strong message I got
:11:32. > :11:36.here was that people wanted all of the agencies to pull together any
:11:37. > :11:40.same direction and get things done. Let's look at the question of money.
:11:41. > :11:45.The Prime Minister says it is not a problem. Does that mean there is new
:11:46. > :11:50.money? It means that in responding to this crisis, we will not allow
:11:51. > :11:53.ourselves to be constrained by resources. So the manpower is
:11:54. > :11:58.available and the money is available. There will not be any
:11:59. > :12:03.thing that is needed that cannot be provided because of money or
:12:04. > :12:09.manpower. Where is it coming from? Local authorities will have access
:12:10. > :12:13.to 100 present compensation, paid from the Treasury reserve. The
:12:14. > :12:17.military forces that have been made available are available to
:12:18. > :12:22.commanders and local authorities and the Treasury reserve will pick up
:12:23. > :12:27.these costs. We do not want anybody saying we cannot deal with this
:12:28. > :12:33.problem, we cannot respond because we do not have enough money or
:12:34. > :12:39.manpower. There is enough money? And manpower, to respond to the crisis.
:12:40. > :12:44.Clearly, Ed Miliband talking about this in prime ministers questions,
:12:45. > :12:47.that does not mean that forever the government will spend any amount of
:12:48. > :12:54.money watch in this crisis and in responding... Resources will not be
:12:55. > :13:01.the constrained. But this is after the event? The event is very much
:13:02. > :13:08.going on now. You will spend this money clearing up an event that in
:13:09. > :13:11.many cases could have been... It is important that local authorities and
:13:12. > :13:18.the emergency services know that whatever they spend on whether it is
:13:19. > :13:21.mature real and equipment or on overtime or whatever they spend,
:13:22. > :13:26.they will get reimbursed by the government. They can forget that
:13:27. > :13:33.particular issue. Lots of people would like to have a say. Philip,
:13:34. > :13:38.let us start with you. I am grateful that Philip came to the village
:13:39. > :13:43.yesterday. It seems a very long time ago. And we were lucky that a group
:13:44. > :13:50.of concerned residents told us we needed the army. We have been told
:13:51. > :13:56.on Sunday that we were going to have floods similar to 1947 and luckily,
:13:57. > :14:02.the Flood warden had told us that they had a meeting and we could tell
:14:03. > :14:07.residents they had to evacuate houses and for 48 hours, this
:14:08. > :14:11.village was on its own and luckily they told us the problem and we have
:14:12. > :14:19.the army within three hours. Up to that point, the first rescue service
:14:20. > :14:28.we had was the RSPCA! Are you serious? Yes. They were the first
:14:29. > :14:38.people here. And they rescued people, as well as animals. But
:14:39. > :14:43.since then, the army has turned up en masse. And the Fire Brigade. And
:14:44. > :14:47.we have got 100 soldiers in the village. Why are you laughing at the
:14:48. > :14:56.mention that the EA turned up? In mass. We had seen one the day
:14:57. > :15:03.before. The intervention was too late? Yes. Far too late. Tell us,
:15:04. > :15:07.what do you mean? Five weeks' ago, we started our campaign. I was on
:15:08. > :15:11.the BBC News five weeks' ago saying we have a problem here, we need
:15:12. > :15:15.help. What was the problem you were identifying? We started off with our
:15:16. > :15:19.drains filling up which we knew then that the water level in the ground
:15:20. > :15:25.was rising and after that happened, four days later the floods came in.
:15:26. > :15:29.We've had no main drainage for five-and-a-half weeks now. What's it
:15:30. > :15:37.been like trying to live through that? Difficult. Hell. Hell? Why,
:15:38. > :15:42.tell me why? Go on? We started off on our own, a small team of six of
:15:43. > :15:48.us. Whilst we were picking up on your point about defences in
:15:49. > :15:52.Datchit, whilst six to eight volunteers were risking their lives
:15:53. > :15:56.because there was no-one supporting our village, you are building a
:15:57. > :16:01.sandbag bank with half the military on a dry grass verge in Datchit half
:16:02. > :16:05.a mile away. We had no resource whatsoever in our village. That was
:16:06. > :16:14.even after we went on to severe flood warning. We had to boar retwo
:16:15. > :16:20.-- borrow two boats. Who supplied these plastic boats? Residents. No,
:16:21. > :16:26.but... Residents here have done so much. So much. Dave - well, I pass
:16:27. > :16:34.over to you - but you have been brilliant. Sue is... These people
:16:35. > :16:38.are jolly cross? Yes, there are a couple of things that have come out
:16:39. > :16:42.of this. My constituency is in the opposite side of the riverbank, so
:16:43. > :16:47.all the problems being talked about here are being experienced on the
:16:48. > :16:52.other side of the river. This is not just happened in February. This has
:16:53. > :16:56.been going on since January. People who live along the river know and
:16:57. > :17:01.understand the way the river works and the way the ground water systems
:17:02. > :17:05.work better than anybody. So, yeah, people - we need to listen more
:17:06. > :17:10.clearly to the people who live along the river. That's one of the
:17:11. > :17:13.mistakes you made? That's one of the consistent messages that comes
:17:14. > :17:17.through. The people... The Environment Agency are funding the
:17:18. > :17:22.Jubilee River on to a gravel rail embankment and that is the reason
:17:23. > :17:25.Datchit floods? People know how the river works. I have known that for
:17:26. > :17:29.the 17 years that I have represented the constituency on the other bank.
:17:30. > :17:33.That's the first thing. The second thing - I must say this - when I
:17:34. > :17:40.came into the village yesterday morning, there were a significant
:17:41. > :17:43.number of police in the village, there was a Bronze Command operating
:17:44. > :17:49.in the school. It isn't quite true to say that at 8.00am yesterday
:17:50. > :17:55.there was nothing here. It may not have been as much as you would like,
:17:56. > :18:02.but there were things here yesterday morning, there were police vehicles,
:18:03. > :18:07.there were officers, there were Fire Brigade vehicles. Do you not think
:18:08. > :18:14.they were here because they knew you were coming here? You cynic! I wish
:18:15. > :18:22.I had that power. Go on? One police officer had wellingtons. They are
:18:23. > :18:29.not equipped. I have worn these for five weeks and they are very sexy!
:18:30. > :18:35.They are! Why am I leading a team for four days without any resources
:18:36. > :18:40.waist-deep rescuing pensioners in stupid dinghies, whilst you are
:18:41. > :18:45.building a sandbag bank? You shouldn't be. Let me be quite clear
:18:46. > :18:49.about this. The military response to requests from the local authorities
:18:50. > :18:54.and the emergency services. They are in the lead. That's the way we work
:18:55. > :18:57.in this country. We've made military personnel available, military
:18:58. > :19:02.equipment available, but we colonel make it available. The civilian lead
:19:03. > :19:06.authorities have to ask for it. And have to direct it with the tasks
:19:07. > :19:10.that they want. I find it strange that you can predict now what is
:19:11. > :19:14.going to happen in seven days' time? Whilst our guys are three-foot deep
:19:15. > :19:19.in water rescuing, there was no predictions at all. You should have
:19:20. > :19:23.known what was going to happen as our leaders and got the military in
:19:24. > :19:30.prior to, instead of risking our lives? We did know what was going to
:19:31. > :19:34.happen. So why didn't you respond? We did know. On Saturday morning, I
:19:35. > :19:43.was at a residents' meeting talking to people who knew, as you knew, how
:19:44. > :19:48.the river was coming up. 32 tonnes, the residents filled. We knew it was
:19:49. > :19:55.going to happen. Dave told us. We transported on Saturday morning
:19:56. > :19:59.32,000 kilos of sand from a trading estate in Transit vans to a margin
:20:00. > :20:05.point and we had volunteers with cones and shovels making sandbags
:20:06. > :20:10.for a whole day. The point I want to make - please don't point the finger
:20:11. > :20:16.at the military. They were there and ready to go. I have not heard a
:20:17. > :20:21.single person criticise the military. They have to be asked for
:20:22. > :20:26.by the civil authorities. I'm pointing the finger at the lady
:20:27. > :20:31.three rows back. Off you go. Thank you. I live on the opposite side of
:20:32. > :20:35.the river. Wraysbury have been brilliant. The flood wardens in
:20:36. > :20:40.Wraysbury have rung me every day because I am volunteer flood warden
:20:41. > :20:44.on the island and I have been volunteer flood warden with my
:20:45. > :20:50.husband, who is in hospital, during the whole of this operation. We have
:20:51. > :20:58.not received the help, Mr Hammond, I'm afraid to say. We need the help.
:20:59. > :21:04.We had the Secretary of State for the Environment visit us today. By
:21:05. > :21:10.the end of today, I was promised the military, I was promised sandbags, I
:21:11. > :21:15.was promised portaloos. We have had nothing! I was promised those by the
:21:16. > :21:21.end of the day. Why have we not received what I was promised earlier
:21:22. > :21:26.on today? OK. I have had to evacuate myself from my house. Everybody has
:21:27. > :21:31.been brilliant on the island, they have worked very well. Please could
:21:32. > :21:35.you answer? Let him answer the question. I can't answer a specific
:21:36. > :21:40.question. We have a command structure, there is a Bronze
:21:41. > :21:43.Commander, a Silver Commander, a Gold Commander. If you have been
:21:44. > :21:47.promised something, it should have been delivered. As I did yesterday,
:21:48. > :21:52.I can take down your individual concern, I can look at it, but I
:21:53. > :21:55.can't answer the question here because that's for the local
:21:56. > :22:00.commanders to answer. Let's broaden this now into another area. No-one
:22:01. > :22:09.with a bit of humanity would fail to sympathise with people whose houses
:22:10. > :22:14.have been inundated. But there is another perspective. Among
:22:15. > :22:18.harder-hearted observers of this week's events the question remains:
:22:19. > :22:20.why be surprised if you live on a floodplain and it floods? Jim Reed
:22:21. > :22:23.reports. March 1947 and a reminder this is
:22:24. > :22:27.not the first time this has happened. Thousands lost their homes
:22:28. > :22:32.in the great Thames flood. There were calls back then for the
:22:33. > :22:37.Government to stop this ever happening again. 65 years on,
:22:38. > :22:42.hundreds have again been moved out of houses in the Thames valley.
:22:43. > :22:45.Troops are now on the ground in significant numbers. Thoughts are
:22:46. > :22:51.now turning to the future and once again, questions are being asked
:22:52. > :22:57.about building on floodplains like this. Priory Road, to the west of
:22:58. > :23:01.Wraysbury, has seen some of the worst flooding. Sue and her husband
:23:02. > :23:07.live at the end of the street. Here, 4X4s and fire engines are still
:23:08. > :23:10.being turned back. It is waist height. If you are trying to get to
:23:11. > :23:22.Priory Road, you will probably be alright in this. That vehicle there
:23:23. > :23:27.is absolutely no good to people where we are further down on the
:23:28. > :23:32.island. So, the people living here are having to make do to get around.
:23:33. > :23:36.Boats and canoes are the main form of transport in some parts of
:23:37. > :23:40.Wraysbury. The floodwater here is at least three or four feet deep. In
:23:41. > :23:45.some places, even deeper. What you notice here when you travel past is
:23:46. > :23:49.how some houses have escaped almost unscathed, others that are perhaps
:23:50. > :23:54.less well designed have seen the floodwaters pour in. The head of the
:23:55. > :23:58.organisation which monitors flood levels called today for more homes
:23:59. > :24:02.to be built like this one, on stilts with the ground floor used as a
:24:03. > :24:06.garage. Often, though, in areas like this, that hasn't happened. That's
:24:07. > :24:11.flooded. It looks like steps there. At the back, they are not as high.
:24:12. > :24:15.You will be able to see how a river house is and how dry we are inside.
:24:16. > :24:19.You wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Sue's home was lifted from the
:24:20. > :24:23.water on stilts with specialised concrete foundations to prevent
:24:24. > :24:28.subsidence. You can't complain about that. No water here at all. This
:24:29. > :24:32.house is completely dry? This house will never be flooded. I can't see a
:24:33. > :24:40.time when we would have water into the house. It's built so high. It's
:24:41. > :24:44.built a metre-and-a-half higher than the '47 flood. She walked us outside
:24:45. > :24:48.to see how her neighbours were getting on. That's - the lady has
:24:49. > :24:57.had to move out. She lives on her own. Although the water is not in,
:24:58. > :25:00.the electric meter is very low down. We have to build on floodplains.
:25:01. > :25:05.There is a shortage of housing in this area. If they built them like a
:25:06. > :25:09.river house, like this, there is not a great problem because it's not
:25:10. > :25:14.taking up much space. It is built on stilts, it is only taking up a few
:25:15. > :25:18.square yards of space. You don't concrete underneath, gravel
:25:19. > :25:22.underneath, don't concrete your drives, gravel them and that
:25:23. > :25:27.minimises the environmental effect. Why then is it still easy to find
:25:28. > :25:32.new-build houses in this area with no real protection from the river?
:25:33. > :25:36.This evening, there are still 14 severe flood warnings along the
:25:37. > :25:40.Thames alone. With more bad weather forecast, the Environment Agency is
:25:41. > :25:46.warning levels could rise again, possibly rivalling these scenes from
:25:47. > :25:56.1947, the worst British floods of the 20th Century. Colin, you are an
:25:57. > :26:01.academic authority on this subject. What do we need to learn about
:26:02. > :26:05.living on floodplains? Well, I agree with the earlier speaker,
:26:06. > :26:11.floodplains are quite good places to live, 90%, or 99% of the time. There
:26:12. > :26:15.is a risk that you will be flooded if you live there. That is why we
:26:16. > :26:20.need the things that only Government can do and local authorities can do
:26:21. > :26:24.and even flood wardens can do. But there are some things that only
:26:25. > :26:29.individual homeowners can do as well to reduce their own risk. This is
:26:30. > :26:35.quite a Tory theme, isn't it, people taking responsibility for their own
:26:36. > :26:38.lives? There are layers here, as the gentleman said. There are some
:26:39. > :26:43.things that only Government can do, the delivery of major flood
:26:44. > :26:48.alleviation schemes and on this part of the Thames, we are waiting for a
:26:49. > :26:52.big flood alleviation scheme which has been in many years in the
:26:53. > :26:56.planning and we hope will be delivered over the next few years.
:26:57. > :27:02.There are also things that individuals can do around their own
:27:03. > :27:06.properties and when it comes to responding to the inevitability of
:27:07. > :27:13.there being from time to time flood events, it is a mixture of community
:27:14. > :27:16.- communities working together, statutory authorities, central
:27:17. > :27:20.government, all of these things have to work together and one of the
:27:21. > :27:23.things we have to do from this experience is analyse where we have
:27:24. > :27:26.done that well and where we haven't done it so well and make sure we
:27:27. > :27:29.make the system more resilient. These things do seem to be happening
:27:30. > :27:32.more often. We do have somebody here with very particular experience of
:27:33. > :27:39.living in a very wet environment. You are the Vice Mayor of Rotterdam.
:27:40. > :27:46.90% of Rotterdam is below sea-level. What is your advice? Well,
:27:47. > :27:49.basically, we have seen that we experience worst weather in the last
:27:50. > :27:53.few times, so climate change is really happening to our cities
:27:54. > :27:57.and... We will come to climate change in a minute or two. But
:27:58. > :28:00.specifically the engineering and property ideas that you have put
:28:01. > :28:04.into place there to protect yourselves against flooding?
:28:05. > :28:08.Basically, we are trying to learn to live more with water than to fight
:28:09. > :28:12.it and the things that we do is - for instance, we create more green
:28:13. > :28:17.areas into cities so the city can work more as a sponge, it can take
:28:18. > :28:21.on the rain and it can keep it longer so it don't flood into the
:28:22. > :28:28.sewage system or into the river. We build floating buildings and
:28:29. > :28:32.buildings that are based on poles... This sounds pretty costly? It
:28:33. > :28:38.doesn't have to be costly. We try to mix and combine functions. We have a
:28:39. > :28:42.large storage facility that is a rowing course, or we have storage
:28:43. > :28:47.facilities inside the cities that are also squares. We have buildings
:28:48. > :28:52.with green roofs so we combine functions and we try to capture
:28:53. > :28:56.water in green roofs, in storage facilities and we create room for
:28:57. > :29:01.the river. And that means that in some areas, you have to be very
:29:02. > :29:05.specific about urban planning and not build there or only build there
:29:06. > :29:09.when you have the specific measurements that we talked about
:29:10. > :29:14.earlier on. And make sure the house is going to float, or stand on poles
:29:15. > :29:19.and if you do that into the planning system, if you do that early on, it
:29:20. > :29:25.doesn't need to be very costly. You need to plan ahead and do that for
:29:26. > :29:33.50, 100 years ahead to make sure that you take the right decision.
:29:34. > :29:37.This community has existed for hundreds of years and frankly has
:29:38. > :29:43.got accustomed to flooding over hundreds of years. That is fair
:29:44. > :29:48.enough? Your grandfather and father were both flood wardens? This is not
:29:49. > :29:54.a new experience? How much does anybody who lives here except this
:29:55. > :30:01.is a matter of personal responsibility if you choose to live
:30:02. > :30:05.on a flood plain? The EA used to dredge the river, which therefore
:30:06. > :30:11.gives the river more capacity to take more water and you have not
:30:12. > :30:21.done that. As far as I am aware, the dredging was sold in 2002 and we
:30:22. > :30:25.flooded in 2003. Human incompetence, the Environment Agency stopped that
:30:26. > :30:35.system working. Someone else's fault again? I have been advised that you
:30:36. > :30:39.tried to hire the dredger back in 2003 to find it had been sold for
:30:40. > :30:47.scrap. You have done nothing since, you have not fired another dredger
:30:48. > :30:54.for the river. We have gone from 2003 and we have flooded in January
:30:55. > :31:00.last month and again this month. It has not in dredge in 12 years. I do
:31:01. > :31:06.not attend to be an expert but over the years I have represented... It
:31:07. > :31:11.is clear that different solutions are different for -- right for a
:31:12. > :31:15.different environments so what is right for the Somerset Levels is not
:31:16. > :31:21.necessarily right here. Does dredging always work? No, it is not
:31:22. > :31:25.necessarily the solution we need in most cases. It can speed up the
:31:26. > :31:34.river flow and cause banks to collapse. My understanding is that
:31:35. > :31:38.on this part of the Thames, because we have engineered structures, the
:31:39. > :31:43.rate of the river is determined more by them than the bottom topography
:31:44. > :31:48.so dredging would create more storage capacity because you are
:31:49. > :31:51.taking the cherry from the river but it would not create a faster flow
:31:52. > :31:57.and we must remember what we are talking about. In full flow, this is
:31:58. > :32:02.400 tonnes of water every second coming down. You could dig a very
:32:03. > :32:10.big hole but it will not take long to fill. Dredging cannot be the
:32:11. > :32:13.whole solution because you were destroyed the ambience and beauty of
:32:14. > :32:19.the river, one of the most attractive reasons for living here.
:32:20. > :32:24.You have to do this carefully. Another area is what happens when is
:32:25. > :32:31.a flood and all of the insurance implications of her? Currently,
:32:32. > :32:33.there is an agreement with government covering small businesses
:32:34. > :32:39.for flood insurance but that is going and in the Lords there is new
:32:40. > :32:42.legislation which excludes small businesses so this pub would have no
:32:43. > :32:49.guarantees. We think this is a retrograde step. The British
:32:50. > :32:51.insurance brokers and the Federation of Small Businesses and the property
:32:52. > :32:55.Federation and the national flood forum, we are concerned and we want
:32:56. > :33:00.to know that the government will look to a solution in place for
:33:01. > :33:06.small businesses as well. But let us be clear why we are in this
:33:07. > :33:10.position. Insurers are not prepared to continue with the scheme that has
:33:11. > :33:13.existed which is why the government had to negotiate a new solution with
:33:14. > :33:19.insurers and the reason they were not prepared to continue is because
:33:20. > :33:24.of what they saw as cherry picking with some insurers being prepared to
:33:25. > :33:29.ensure high risk properties and other, typically newer, entrants to
:33:30. > :33:33.the market only picking lower risk. So the solution that the government
:33:34. > :33:39.has come up with in conjunction with insurers is a levy system that will
:33:40. > :33:44.allow property owners to get access to reasonably priced flood
:33:45. > :33:52.insurance, which is effectively supported by a small levy on the
:33:53. > :33:56.insurance premiums on lower risk properties. That is a process that
:33:57. > :34:00.is underway but it has not happened because the government decided one
:34:01. > :34:04.morning to do things differently, it was because the insurance companies
:34:05. > :34:08.decided there were not prepared to carry on with the system that had
:34:09. > :34:14.operated in the past. When you have got massive wadis saying, one in
:34:15. > :34:17.five businesses are in danger, there does need to be more conversations
:34:18. > :34:25.with the industry about getting a solution in place. This is entirely
:34:26. > :34:29.your fault? We are talking with insurers to get specialist schemes
:34:30. > :34:35.in place but when they guarantee is taken away, but as our concern. You
:34:36. > :34:41.want to be feather-bedded by the government? At the moment, to create
:34:42. > :34:48.a solution for homes, you have to charge a levy and we think they
:34:49. > :34:51.should be a similar system for small businesses where they will make
:34:52. > :34:56.small contributions to help those few that cannot access affordable
:34:57. > :35:02.cover. I want to move onto another that has been mentioned by our guest
:35:03. > :35:04.from Rotterdam. As we saw earlier, this is not the first time this
:35:05. > :35:08.village has been flooded, even in living memory. But the rainfall the
:35:09. > :35:13.last few weeks has been extraordinarily high. The suggestion
:35:14. > :35:17.is it may be to do with climate change. If that's so, we'd better
:35:18. > :35:20.get used to this sort of event. Nick Milller is a meteorologist and so
:35:21. > :35:25.ought to know what he's talking about. We will start to see the rain
:35:26. > :35:32.intensified. The wind will ease down. Lots of showers. Wetter
:35:33. > :35:37.conditions... If it seems the forecast from the Weather Centre is
:35:38. > :35:43.stuck on repeat, it is because the weather so far has been singing one
:35:44. > :35:46.train - wet and windy. The product of a very active jet stream driving
:35:47. > :35:52.deeper areas of low pressure across the Atlantic. One after another.
:35:53. > :35:55.Here comes another. If it seems hard to remember a time when the weather
:35:56. > :36:00.was not like this, it shows how quickly we forget. This time last
:36:01. > :36:05.year a prolonged spell of easterly winds were about to produce our
:36:06. > :36:09.coldest is bring in 50 years and at the start of 2012 the displaced jet
:36:10. > :36:13.stream was blamed as we stared down the barrel of the worst drought
:36:14. > :36:19.since 1976. All very different weather patterns with a common link
:36:20. > :36:23.- each persisted for many months. The Met Office has published an
:36:24. > :36:25.analysis of our stormy winter and says it raises the possibility that
:36:26. > :36:32.disruption of the usual weather pattern might be how climate change
:36:33. > :36:36.may manifest itself, an area that it is actively researching. And it is
:36:37. > :36:39.not just the frequency of storms that is notable but how much rain
:36:40. > :36:46.they have produced and the Met Office says there is emerging
:36:47. > :36:52.evidence that over the year, events might be more frequent. This graph
:36:53. > :36:58.shows that what in the 1960s and 1970s might have been a one in every
:36:59. > :37:02.125 day event is more likely one in 85 days. It is basic physics of warm
:37:03. > :37:08.air contains more water, translating into more rain. What confuses this
:37:09. > :37:12.is something we all know deep down - the Great British weather is
:37:13. > :37:16.incredibly variable. The same weather records were used to compare
:37:17. > :37:20.wet winters will show as many dry winters also. Our weather can and
:37:21. > :37:26.often does go from one extreme to another. Conclusions for the long
:37:27. > :37:30.term from one season of storms are, the Met Office says, impossible to
:37:31. > :37:34.make and even if the weather is changing, attributing that to
:37:35. > :37:41.man-made climate change is even more challenging.
:37:42. > :37:45.To discuss the role of climate change in all this and how we tackle
:37:46. > :37:47.it, I'm joined by the former Government Chief Scientist, who
:37:48. > :37:51.advises the Government on climate change, Sir David King. And the Vice
:37:52. > :37:58.Mayor of Rotterdam, Alexandra van Huffelen. Are you surprised by these
:37:59. > :38:03.floods? I am surprised, it has happened earlier than I would have
:38:04. > :38:08.expected. In the sense that we put in a report to the government in
:38:09. > :38:15.2004 on flood and coastal defence and in that report we used the best
:38:16. > :38:18.that science could reduce to anticipate what the challenges would
:38:19. > :38:24.be for the British Isles. The biggest challenge from climate
:38:25. > :38:30.change is flooding. So we set out in some detail, this was an enormous
:38:31. > :38:33.piece of work, and the net result was that we said that within 20
:38:34. > :38:40.years, this sort of thing would be happening. Yes, it is all happening
:38:41. > :38:44.more frequently. It was predicted that the timescale has collapsed? So
:38:45. > :38:49.we're going to have to get used to more of this? As far as we can tell?
:38:50. > :38:55.I believe there is going to be more of this, that is right. And what
:38:56. > :39:01.this means is that the flood defences plan, which became an act
:39:02. > :39:08.in 2010, needs to be continued to be rolled out. Have government 's this
:39:09. > :39:14.and to this research? -- governments. Yes. And while it is
:39:15. > :39:19.very important to listen to people suffering from flooding, what we are
:39:20. > :39:27.not hearing from is the people who have not suffered from flooding. For
:39:28. > :39:37.example, in the last ten weeks, the Thames Barrier has been closed 29 is
:39:38. > :39:42.-- times. This is exceptional. That is one fifth of the usage of the
:39:43. > :39:48.barrier since 1983. This is a very exceptional time. London has not
:39:49. > :39:54.suffered in the way that these villages are suffering. We must not
:39:55. > :39:58.forget that there are areas of Britain that have been managed
:39:59. > :40:04.through this crisis. What lessons should be learned if the environment
:40:05. > :40:09.is changing in the way that authorities suggest? We have seen
:40:10. > :40:17.this and other parts of Europe, we have seen at last in Germany and so
:40:18. > :40:22.on. What is coming from four sides, down the river, because of higher
:40:23. > :40:27.sea levels, more extreme rainfall and ground water issues. What you
:40:28. > :40:32.need to do is really find alternative ways to tackle these
:40:33. > :40:38.issues. We used to build dams and dikes to protect ourselves but we
:40:39. > :40:42.are seeing more novel ways. We need to live with water rather than fight
:40:43. > :40:47.it and one of those things is getting rivers more room and you can
:40:48. > :40:51.do that with dredging but you can literally give them more room. You
:40:52. > :40:55.need to find more ways to store watcher and you need more green
:40:56. > :41:00.areas outside cities but also inside cities where we can store water.
:41:01. > :41:11.What does this sound like to you, who has been suffering? I looked to
:41:12. > :41:15.the Norfolk area and irrelevance is that the sea defences programme
:41:16. > :41:22.there in certain areas along the coastline, areas are allowed to
:41:23. > :41:27.flood and houses have been lost. Are we saying that certain areas of
:41:28. > :41:32.Berkshire will be allowed to flood along the River? Because at the
:41:33. > :41:34.moment, the way the government has reacted, information from these
:41:35. > :41:41.experts means nothing is happening -- happening in Datchit or in
:41:42. > :41:49.Wraysbury. We knew that the flood was coming and on Tuesday the army
:41:50. > :41:54.arrived and they build one wall with cameras rolling. Was this a PR
:41:55. > :42:02.exercise? Why did they not just dump trailers into the residents and say,
:42:03. > :42:10.lock up your area? We have had do this for ourselves and we will do
:42:11. > :42:14.that. These two guys are making a bigger point about national and
:42:15. > :42:20.international management. There are going to be places that will come
:42:21. > :42:26.out of that less well than others. It is joined up thinking, I
:42:27. > :42:30.represent Marlow and we had this if you days before Wraysbury but we
:42:31. > :42:36.were able to predict the search coming down that would hit us three
:42:37. > :42:41.days later and we were quite prepared and when the army turned up
:42:42. > :42:45.today, we hadn't use for them. If we add a local level can predict those
:42:46. > :42:48.floods coming and take our own defences, then why can the
:42:49. > :42:53.government not take advice from a report and from locals, they know
:42:54. > :42:58.that this is not a shock to anybody, it seems to be a shock to the
:42:59. > :43:08.government. We know it is coming, your experts know, everybody knows
:43:09. > :43:14.it is coming, except the government. To be fair... You said the
:43:15. > :43:21.government did take your report seriously? Did they spend the money
:43:22. > :43:25.you anticipated? The amount of money spent depends on the amount of money
:43:26. > :43:30.that can be apportioned to this particular problem. By which I mean,
:43:31. > :43:35.I am not the person sitting in the Treasury saying this amount on the
:43:36. > :43:40.health service... That is a rather the logical argument. You have
:43:41. > :43:43.investigated this matter at some length and in some detail and you
:43:44. > :43:47.conclude that action needs to be taken. My question was, how they
:43:48. > :44:01.spent the money they should have? Our report said in 2004... Yes or
:44:02. > :44:03.no? ! Our report said that we must spend an additional sum of money
:44:04. > :44:09.each year, adding to that sum of money. Has that happened? It
:44:10. > :44:20.happened until the financial crisis. So it is not happening as Mac it has
:44:21. > :44:28.stopped? -- it is not happening, it has stopped? We are the sacrificial
:44:29. > :44:33.lambs for the likes of London and Maidenhead. We are all very
:44:34. > :44:41.concerned about a very particular part of Britain. John, you had
:44:42. > :44:49.flooding quite recently? Yes, that was a tidal surge, not rainfall. The
:44:50. > :44:55.point is? It was a different type of flooding. It was a tidal surge up
:44:56. > :44:57.the River Humber. That caused it. Did you see the Prime Minister and
:44:58. > :45:04.the leader of the opposition tramping around in the middle of
:45:05. > :45:07.this? We did not but this is an ever-growing event. And therefore,
:45:08. > :45:12.it is becoming quite a national disaster. And quite naturally,
:45:13. > :45:19.politicians have come along, as the disaster has grown. As a matter of
:45:20. > :45:27.interest... The local MPs were there. They were there on site and
:45:28. > :45:32.they would be giving the reports to the Government. Just so we know
:45:33. > :45:37.where we all are, are we going to see this event happening again and
:45:38. > :45:44.again with increasing frequency? You have heard some doom-laden things.
:45:45. > :45:50.Put your hand up, come on. You are all very fatalistic then! Yes.
:45:51. > :45:57.Anyone going to move house and leave the area? Who is going to buy our
:45:58. > :46:02.houses? Jeremy, can I say that the Minister did say we are going to
:46:03. > :46:08.listen to the local people. I don't wish to be unkind - seriously, I
:46:09. > :46:13.don't wish to be unkind - but I don't believe him. We will see. We
:46:14. > :46:18.have written to every Minister that's been involved with flooding
:46:19. > :46:21.pleading, "Please come and see us because we are not satisfied with
:46:22. > :46:26.what is happening. If you won't come, will you send a drainage
:46:27. > :46:36.engineer to come?" Has he turned up yet? No. Thank you all very much.
:46:37. > :46:40.OK. In 2003, we flooded. Our sewers were under water. Our substations
:46:41. > :46:46.went under water. They said they would build them above water. He
:46:47. > :46:52.said only 20 minutes ago we will learn. They had 2003 to learn from.
:46:53. > :46:55.They had not lifted the substations or the sewers for the last four
:46:56. > :46:59.weeks. We have been walking... I'm going to have to cut you off. We are
:47:00. > :47:02.out of time now. That's it for tonight from Wraysbury. Until
:47:03. > :47:05.tomorrow night, good night.