:00:00. > :00:13.America warns it will isolate Russia, if it doesn't back out of
:00:14. > :00:18.Crimea. But here the UK Government inadvertently shows its hand and
:00:19. > :00:21.lets slip it has ruled out military action and tough financial sanction.
:00:22. > :00:28.No wonder he looks confident and in command as he watches the Russian
:00:29. > :00:32.army flexing their muscles. Here in Sevastopol Ukraine says Russian
:00:33. > :00:38.forces have surrounded all of its bases on the peninsula, Russia
:00:39. > :00:42.denies giving the Ukrainians an ultimatum to surrender by morning or
:00:43. > :00:45.else. We will be live in Kiev asking the new Ukrainian Government what
:00:46. > :00:51.they are going to do. We will hear from John McCain and voices from
:00:52. > :00:55.around the world about where the crisis goes next.
:00:56. > :00:58.The he had case secretary says he doesn't care how posh his cabinet
:00:59. > :01:04.colleagues are, even if the voters do. It is an English disease to pay
:01:05. > :01:10.too much attention to where someone went to school. From Benefits
:01:11. > :01:18.Street, white White Dee, has the show changed her life and what does
:01:19. > :01:25.the fame mean for her benefits? Good evening, reports tonight that Russia
:01:26. > :01:28.has issued an ultimatum to the new Government in Ukraine to surrender
:01:29. > :01:32.or face full military assault. In five hours that ultimate, then
:01:33. > :01:37.denied by Russia, runs out. Tonight we will ask the interim Government
:01:38. > :01:40.how it intends to respond. President Obama warned Russia it was on the
:01:41. > :01:46.wrong side of history and threatened to isolate the superpower. Here a
:01:47. > :01:49.document that has revealed the UK Government's hand and shows it is
:01:50. > :01:52.unwilling to contemplate any military action or take tough
:01:53. > :01:56.financial sanction. We have ask if the west has any power in this
:01:57. > :02:01.conflict. First, Gabriel Gatehouse has been monitoring events in
:02:02. > :02:06.Crimea, he joins us live. It is less than five hours now until
:02:07. > :02:11.this supposed ultimatum runs out. The Ukrainians say they have heard
:02:12. > :02:16.from Russians and they have been told their bases, now surrounded,
:02:17. > :02:19.will be stormed if they don't vacate them by 5.00am local time. The
:02:20. > :02:23.Russians say it is nonsense and they have no intention of doing any such
:02:24. > :02:28.thing. Whatever the case this has perhaps the desired affect of making
:02:29. > :02:31.everyone jittery, especially inside the bases. Interestingly, talking to
:02:32. > :02:36.ordinary people here, despite all of this going on, many people genuinely
:02:37. > :02:40.do feel pleased towards the presence of Russian forces here. But, they
:02:41. > :02:43.know this is very, very tense and they know that any park could ignite
:02:44. > :02:48.something and nobody here wants a war. We also heard today, again from
:02:49. > :02:57.the Ukrainian authorities, about a supposed build up of Russian troops
:02:58. > :03:03.on the east of the peninsula, just across Into Russia and many more
:03:04. > :03:07.Russian troops coming over here, whatever the case we will see that
:03:08. > :03:11.tomorrow. We have been travelling around the peninsula and seen that
:03:12. > :03:16.the Russians have many of their own forces here, and many seem to have
:03:17. > :03:20.come from the Black Sea base here in Sevastopol. Not a shot has been
:03:21. > :03:27.fired. But in years to come historians may well write that this
:03:28. > :03:32.was how Russia took back Crimea. What would once have been normal
:03:33. > :03:38.every day scenes have now taken on a more frightening aspect. Russia's
:03:39. > :03:42.Black Sea fleet leases its base here in Sevastopol from the Ukrainian
:03:43. > :03:49.Government. Or at least it did. Now its forces aren't guests any more,
:03:50. > :03:54.they have become the masters. On the road out of Sevastopol checkpoints
:03:55. > :04:01.have appeared. These apparently manned by civilians, but they are
:04:02. > :04:06.flying the Russian flag. Moscow's control now extends across the
:04:07. > :04:12.peninsula. Ukraine says all of its military bases have been surrounded.
:04:13. > :04:17.We were south of the capital shortly after the troops arrived. The
:04:18. > :04:25.Ukrainian commander emerged from negotiations with his unseen Russian
:04:26. > :04:33.counterpart. I asked him whether any of his men were prepared to
:04:34. > :04:43.surrender? He told me no-one was surrendering, and it was a Ukrainian
:04:44. > :04:48.brigade and that's that. And so, the stand-off began. The Russians have
:04:49. > :04:52.called on the Ukrainians to vacate their bases. For now they are
:04:53. > :04:58.holding out. Essentially they are prisoners behind their own gates.
:04:59. > :05:03.The Russian troops are well armed and clearly well disciplined. Their
:05:04. > :05:10.uniforms hold no clue as to their identity. But no-one is in any doubt
:05:11. > :05:16.who they are. And many are glad they are here. TRANSLATION: We don't want
:05:17. > :05:23.people to come here with their Molotov cocktails and create chaos
:05:24. > :05:30.like they did in the capital. These troops are here to keep us safe. Not
:05:31. > :05:34.everyone is in agreement. An argument broke out when one man
:05:35. > :05:43.suggested the Russian soldiers were an occupying force. He was quickly
:05:44. > :05:47.shouted down. As more Russian supporters arrived, Ukrainian
:05:48. > :05:54.soldiers watched nervously from the top of the buildings. When we
:05:55. > :05:58.returned today reinforcements seemed to have arrived, and yet more
:05:59. > :06:05.flag-waving supporters blocking movement on and off the base. And
:06:06. > :06:13.so, the Ukrainian troops are relying on locals to rePlehnish their
:06:14. > :06:18.supplies. We watched a Lada deliver shopping to the besieged Ukrainians
:06:19. > :06:23.with the tacit agreement of the Russians, every soldier understands
:06:24. > :06:29.the need to eat. TRANSLATION: Everyone knows perfectly well whom
:06:30. > :06:34.Crimea belongs to, says I can't imagine these guys are pleased to be
:06:35. > :06:41.here es. He added that pointing to the Russians. These men are Crimeas
:06:42. > :06:49.tartares, they fear a Russian takeover. To understand why you have
:06:50. > :06:54.to come to this place. The capital of the Crimea area when the Tartas
:06:55. > :06:59.ruled the peninsula from the 16th century, all of that came to the end
:07:00. > :07:07.with Russia's southward expansion under the Tsars. For many crimian
:07:08. > :07:13.people this is still their home and repositry of their history.
:07:14. > :07:18.Katherine the great's conquests is celebrated here as a great
:07:19. > :07:25.historical event, one that puts Crimea within the Russian umpire for
:07:26. > :07:32.more than two centuries. But for the cry mean -- the people here, this
:07:33. > :07:39.was just one in a series of tragedies that be fell them under
:07:40. > :07:44.Russian rule. This woman is 84 years old, she was 11 when Stalin ordered
:07:45. > :07:49.the whole population to be deported, he suspected them of collaborating
:07:50. > :07:52.with the Nazis. They were herded on to freight trains bound for
:07:53. > :07:59.Uzbekistan. The memory is still painful. The people only returned
:08:00. > :08:02.after Ukraine gained its independence from the Soviet Union.
:08:03. > :08:07.She says the thought of another conflict with the Russians is simply
:08:08. > :08:17.unbearable. She wouldn't wish it on her worst enemy, just let there not
:08:18. > :08:21.be war, she says. This evening Ukrainian naval officers began
:08:22. > :08:26.barricading themselves inside their head quarters in anticipation of a
:08:27. > :08:31.possible Russian assault. Earlier they gathered in the parade ground,
:08:32. > :08:37.to hear an appeal from their new Admiral, not to heed Russian calls
:08:38. > :08:45.to abandon their posts. They tried to break our lines of communication,
:08:46. > :08:50.to break our lines of supply and to, they do a severe psychological
:08:51. > :08:54.pressure on our personnel to betray our motherland. Many people here are
:08:55. > :08:57.deeply suspicious of the new Government in Kiev, and the way in
:08:58. > :09:02.which the previous one was overthrown. Russia may have lost an
:09:03. > :09:05.ally when Viktor Yanukovych was toppled in Kiev, but in a sense they
:09:06. > :09:09.got what they really needed out of him. One of the first things
:09:10. > :09:13.Yanukovych did when he came into office in 2010 was to extend
:09:14. > :09:21.Moscow's lease on this base, right into the middle of this century.
:09:22. > :09:25.There were those Ukrainian politicians on the nationalist side
:09:26. > :09:30.who argued against it and said this base was a Trojan horse, and so
:09:31. > :09:35.indeed it has turned out to be. Not for the first time in history,
:09:36. > :09:40.Crimea finds itself at an epicentre of conflict with great global
:09:41. > :09:46.powers. While the west scrambles to calibrate a response, Russia is busy
:09:47. > :09:51.creating facts on the ground. In Washington tonight, could we be
:09:52. > :09:55.seeing signals of a tougher stance. President Obama's ambassador to the
:09:56. > :09:58.UN promised to stand strongly and proudly with the people of Ukraine
:09:59. > :10:04.at the UN Security Council meeting tonight. We will pass to Washington
:10:05. > :10:07.and speak to John McCain, the former Republican Presidential Candidate
:10:08. > :10:10.who sits on the Senate foreign relations committee. Thank you very
:10:11. > :10:17.much for joining us. Are you hearing tough words from America tonight?
:10:18. > :10:23.I'm hearing a lot of rhetoric, so far the only action to be taken is
:10:24. > :10:28.to boycott the preparatory meeting to take place of the G8. There is a
:10:29. > :10:32.lot of rhetoric, but I frankly don't see a lot of action. What do you
:10:33. > :10:43.think should happen? I think we should do a lot of things, beginning
:10:44. > :10:48.with a fundamental revamping of our policy towards Mr Putin. Our
:10:49. > :10:59.President has been incredibly niave in his dealings with him. The reset,
:11:00. > :11:05.the overheard conversation with him and Medevev, saying tell him he
:11:06. > :11:09.would be more flexible. This is not east-west or Cold War, Mr Putin said
:11:10. > :11:13.the greatest disaster of the 20th century was the fall of the Soviet
:11:14. > :11:20.Union. He believes this is east-west, he believes it is Cold
:11:21. > :11:24.War and he believes that Crimea and particularly the base is essential
:11:25. > :11:28.to the old Russian empire which he continues to seek. How do you
:11:29. > :11:37.respond to western powers who will rule out military I engagment, or
:11:38. > :11:45.indeed tough financial sanctions? I rule out military action, it is just
:11:46. > :11:53.not an option that would be viable. This is the result of five years
:11:54. > :12:00.niave relations with Russia. If the Europeans decide that the economic
:12:01. > :12:07.considerations are too important to then impose severe sanctions on
:12:08. > :12:13.Vladimir Putin, which you get from the statement from Angela Merkel
:12:14. > :12:20.today, then they are ignoring the lessons of history. If Vladimir
:12:21. > :12:25.Putin is allowed to take this Crimea, because of protecting
:12:26. > :12:31."Russian population", do you remember back in the 1930s when
:12:32. > :12:35.Hitler took Czechoslovakia and other places because of the German
:12:36. > :12:38.population, and finally could I say there are significant Russian
:12:39. > :12:46.populations in the Baltic countries and Poland and Romania. Russia will
:12:47. > :12:49.say at this point that the west stood by whilst a democratically
:12:50. > :12:54.elected Government in Ukraine was overthrown, not even stood by, but
:12:55. > :13:00.supported that coup? I think that when you see what Yanukovych did
:13:01. > :13:05.with his corruption and his repression and killing of people, he
:13:06. > :13:10.forfeited all legitimacy in the eyes of anybody who has been objective
:13:11. > :13:15.view. They can say that pigs fly, but the fact that Yanukovych
:13:16. > :13:19.forfeited any claim he may have it to governing the country. Tonight we
:13:20. > :13:22.saw developments from the UK Government, inadvertently, that
:13:23. > :13:26.showed they were not for now supporting trade sanctions or
:13:27. > :13:30.closing the financial centre to Russians, is that the right
:13:31. > :13:39.approach? Of course not. Of course not. I'm not astonished, to be frank
:13:40. > :13:43.with you. Disappointed but not astonished. Here in the United
:13:44. > :13:50.States we have a bill which targets people with sanctions and with
:13:51. > :13:55.penalties who are responsible. We can renew the missile defence
:13:56. > :14:01.systems that we abandoned in an attempt to appease Putin and in the
:14:02. > :14:04.Czech Republic and Poland. I think we can do a lot of things, if
:14:05. > :14:08.necessary, unilaterally. Thank you very much indeed for your time for
:14:09. > :14:13.joining us this evening. Our diplomatic editor joins me now,
:14:14. > :14:18.and we have also been looking at the market implications. There is
:14:19. > :14:23.diplomatic embarrassment here, certainly for the Government from
:14:24. > :14:27.those documents that were spied, that essentially, removed some key
:14:28. > :14:33.tools? Well, you have a situation and let as face it, it is not a new
:14:34. > :14:36.one, where the members of the EU in particular, there was a foreign
:14:37. > :14:40.ministers meeting today in Brussels of the EU not agreeing on the way
:14:41. > :14:44.forward. You have Poland in particular in both EU and NATO
:14:45. > :14:47.insitsing that people address this -- insisting that people address
:14:48. > :14:53.this question and in a resolute American. On the other side of the
:14:54. > :14:59.equation we know in this meeting, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands
:15:00. > :15:02.were all against taking sanctions against Russia. Having heard all
:15:03. > :15:05.that we see the documents, glimpsed on the way into Downing Street for a
:15:06. > :15:09.National Security Council meeting, excluding on the one hand anything
:15:10. > :15:13.that would have a negative effect on trade relations between the two
:15:14. > :15:19.countries, and then, with regard to what NATO might do, ruling out even
:15:20. > :15:23.planning for some sort of military preparation. Even the window
:15:24. > :15:26.dressing, if you like, was ruled out by the British Government. In this
:15:27. > :15:30.situation, once again, we look at precedents like the Balkan wars,
:15:31. > :15:34.people will look to the Americans, and judging from the language being
:15:35. > :15:38.used in the UN tonight by their ambassador and by President Obama
:15:39. > :15:45.today, there is more likely to be some substantive American movement
:15:46. > :15:49.on this issue, perhaps Magnitski act or clauses, perhaps something that
:15:50. > :15:54.goes the G8 issue. I think we should look to Washington in the next day
:15:55. > :15:58.or two on this. Laura, I'm wondering how relevant any of these threened
:15:59. > :16:03.sanctions are from bodies and Governments when the facts on the
:16:04. > :16:08.ground in terms of the markets are so stark? As the diplomacy grinds
:16:09. > :16:12.away ineffectively, the markets are different, they are live beasts. We
:16:13. > :16:18.have seen a harsher verdict on what is going on and Putin's credibility.
:16:19. > :16:23.The rouble fell to record lose, Russian stocks had huge amounts of
:16:24. > :16:29.money wiped off them. On the streets of Russian cities there were stories
:16:30. > :16:34.of exchange booths running out of dollars, as some Russians themselves
:16:35. > :16:37.sought to get their roubles out and turn them into a safe currency. We
:16:38. > :16:40.are kidding ourselves if we think this is some how happening in
:16:41. > :16:45.isolation. One former director of the Bank of England says he thinks
:16:46. > :16:51.it is certain Ukraine will default. One of our biggest companies, BP,
:16:52. > :16:56.huge stakeholder in the biggest oil company in the world. It lost huge
:16:57. > :17:00.amounts of value from its company today. The biggest thing is oil
:17:01. > :17:06.prices, already in the last couple of weeks they have been shoved up.
:17:07. > :17:11.That has been impact on almost everything, our FTSE, the French,
:17:12. > :17:16.the German markets. The markets are nervy and they don't like it. This
:17:17. > :17:22.is hurting Russia too, what does Putin's end game become. We have
:17:23. > :17:26.heard several things where is it going? The whole question is so
:17:27. > :17:29.repleat with history. We saw in Gabriel Gatehouse's report, the
:17:30. > :17:34.sense in which Ukraine and Crimea are part of Russia's history. There
:17:35. > :17:37.are people in Russia who want to reabsorb the country, that is
:17:38. > :17:40.clearly not on the cards in the near future. I think the key things that
:17:41. > :17:44.Russia wants in the near future is to have an important influence in
:17:45. > :17:48.the shaping of this country and of the Government that follows. Some
:17:49. > :17:53.people think they are trying to get the constitution turned into a more
:17:54. > :17:57.federal one, where Russian speak he is in the east of the country have
:17:58. > :18:01.far more -- speakers in the east of the country have far more influence
:18:02. > :18:06.and can influence decision making in the Ukraine. With Crimea with
:18:07. > :18:10.separate status within Ukraine, the question has to be open whether that
:18:11. > :18:15.will be in some sense absorbed by Russia. That's the theory, what do
:18:16. > :18:21.those on the front line make of it. Joining me down the line from Kiev
:18:22. > :18:30.is Ukraine's interim economics minister. Was there an ultimatum,
:18:31. > :18:35.what did you understand by it earlier today? Can you repeat the
:18:36. > :18:40.question once again? We understood there was an ultimatum issued from
:18:41. > :18:46.Russia? It seems like the ultimatum has expired and nothing serious has
:18:47. > :18:50.happened. We survived the first ultimatum, it is not the first and
:18:51. > :19:00.won't be the last one. How do you read what Russia has done so far? We
:19:01. > :19:08.read if that is not an intervention, then what is? How will you respond?
:19:09. > :19:15.We respond like during the last week, keeping calm, we believe that
:19:16. > :19:19.this escalation has to be deescalated. Exclusively and only
:19:20. > :19:22.through the peaceful means. Through negotiations, through the
:19:23. > :19:31.discussions, we want to figure out what is the reason of this
:19:32. > :19:35.escalation. The Ukraine is governing itself. Like any other nation it
:19:36. > :19:41.discusses in a democratic way, we don't really understand why Russia
:19:42. > :19:49.is so concerned. Russia is on your military base, do you call that
:19:50. > :19:54.negotiation? Well we do not particularly like that Russia is at
:19:55. > :20:04.our military bases, it should be at its own military base. How far will
:20:05. > :20:10.you let Russia go before you take action we really hope that Russia
:20:11. > :20:17.will seize these actions. These unfriendly actions. Come on, we live
:20:18. > :20:28.together, virtually peacefully almost through the whole history
:20:29. > :20:32.that we had. We are brotherly and orthodox nations, so I think that it
:20:33. > :20:42.is some kind of you know, we treat it as some kind of misunderstanding
:20:43. > :20:47.maybe Russia did not read properly the signals and events happening in
:20:48. > :20:52.Kiev. For some reason they took it as the offence against them as if
:20:53. > :20:57.they were moving completely westward, against Russia, which is
:20:58. > :21:01.absolutely not true. What was happening in the main square in
:21:02. > :21:09.Midan is our absolutely internal issue, we were just protesting
:21:10. > :21:13.against the corruption and against the violation of human rights and
:21:14. > :21:17.actually killing human lives. That is what we are protesting against.
:21:18. > :21:23.Let me just clarify then, it sounds from what you are saying that you
:21:24. > :21:28.are ruling out any kind of military response to what is going that there
:21:29. > :21:36.now, is that right? The Ukrainian Government does not plan to use any
:21:37. > :21:40.kind of military response because we do not believe it is the right way
:21:41. > :21:43.to solve the issue. This issue should be solved only through
:21:44. > :21:51.peaceful means. We are being provoked already for five or six
:21:52. > :21:58.days, and I really command the calm and the strength of the Ukrainian
:21:59. > :22:04.forces that did not allow to be provoked.
:22:05. > :22:11.Let's hear now from the Kremlin former adviser, and Ming Campbell.
:22:12. > :22:15.We did have the former US Ambassador but he has sadly just left our
:22:16. > :22:21.studio without an explanation, perhaps we can shed a bit more light
:22:22. > :22:27.on that. You have heard the charge against you, five or six days of
:22:28. > :22:32.provokation on sovereign Ukraine land. What is Russia doing there?
:22:33. > :22:40.First of all you are forgetting that we have had a coup in Kiev. Which
:22:41. > :22:44.was financed and encouraged and senator McCain was there during the
:22:45. > :22:48.protests, encouraging those protesters to continue. With
:22:49. > :22:52.protesters killed on the streets? And protestors shooting at police,
:22:53. > :22:59.and by the way 20 police dead means protesters were armed. We have to
:23:00. > :23:03.stop and count the dead people. I think the problem here is this,
:23:04. > :23:15.everyone is asking what is President Putin's end game, I would like to
:23:16. > :23:18.ask in return what is the west's end gam What is the end game of the
:23:19. > :23:23.Government in now in Ukraine because it was waiting for billions to come
:23:24. > :23:29.from the west. And now it doesn't know what to do. All day the
:23:30. > :23:33.ultimatum the western press was banging on about, it was denied by
:23:34. > :23:37.the minister of defence in Russia and said it was nonsense, yet it was
:23:38. > :23:40.reported all day. You are showing the Security Council of the UN
:23:41. > :23:45.gathering, who called for that meeting? Russia, not a word
:23:46. > :23:49.anywhere. Let me set something straight, Yanukovych wrote to Russia
:23:50. > :23:54.saying military action is visible in the Ukraine in Crimea, is this is
:23:55. > :23:58.what happened? Yanukovych it doesn't matter what he wrote. He was the
:23:59. > :24:03.legitimate President and Joan thrown by a coup. What he wrote, if he was
:24:04. > :24:07.a legitimate President what he wrote was obviously of significance. What
:24:08. > :24:11.do we want? We want the people of Ukraine to have the opportunity to
:24:12. > :24:17.determine their own future without the influence of Russia. And of
:24:18. > :24:30.course we know, last time round, it was south Ossetia, there is always
:24:31. > :24:35.an excuse for intervention for political reasons. I think it is
:24:36. > :24:37.inexcusable in the UK that a document is photographed going into
:24:38. > :24:42.Downing Street. It is particularly significant in this case, since
:24:43. > :24:45.military options are ruled out and there are not many shots in the
:24:46. > :24:49.locker but economic sanctions would be one of those. That was foolish on
:24:50. > :24:53.two counts? You show your hand in a democratic exchange of this kind
:24:54. > :24:59.uncertainty is enormously important and significant. Particularly when
:25:00. > :25:02.we hear that the Moscow Stock Exchange has collapsed and the
:25:03. > :25:06.rouble is under severe pressure, the economy is the soft underbelly of
:25:07. > :25:11.Russia in this matter. I wonder how you think this is going for Putin
:25:12. > :25:16.now, when you look at the state of Gazprom shares or the rouble, is
:25:17. > :25:21.this going according to plan? Putin had to respond. It would have been
:25:22. > :25:27.political suicide for Putin not to respond. It could be economic
:25:28. > :25:32.suicide the way he's going? That would be a disaster. A
:25:33. > :25:40.western-backed coup would have been a disaster. A western-backed
:25:41. > :25:43.disaster? The credibility of the country is not based on President
:25:44. > :25:46.Putin. There is a breach of the United Nations charter, they are
:25:47. > :25:52.talking about regime change. These are the very people when it came to
:25:53. > :25:58.President Assad's regime in Syria, allow me to finish. What about Libya
:25:59. > :26:02.and Syria. Let him finish his point. You can't talk about that on Ukraine
:26:03. > :26:06.on your conscience there is Iraq, Libya and Syria, I'm sorry. I have a
:26:07. > :26:10.conscience about Iraq and I will not take any challenge to the contrary
:26:11. > :26:15.from you. But these are the people who when it came to trying to deal
:26:16. > :26:22.with President Assad's regime said they, went out of their way to veto
:26:23. > :26:25.or said they would veto any suitable UN resolution. Why? Because they
:26:26. > :26:29.said it would amount to regime change, they are practising regime
:26:30. > :26:33.change at the moment. There is me moral authority with Putin's actions
:26:34. > :26:36.it looked like bare-chested thuggery? No it doesn't, nobody is
:26:37. > :26:41.planning to invade. They have invaded. So this is not invasion? Of
:26:42. > :26:46.course it is not an invasion. What do you call this when you occupy or
:26:47. > :26:52.stand on the edge of every single military installation? I would call
:26:53. > :26:57.an invasion is Kiev when armed thugs were killing policemen and troops.
:26:58. > :27:01.Did you hear any shot fired in Crimea, or anyone hurt or anything.
:27:02. > :27:05.The reason the bases are surrounded because in other cities in the
:27:06. > :27:11.Ukraine they stole arms from those bases. This is a very strange set of
:27:12. > :27:15.affairs, we have not had one shot? That's a good thing. We shouldn't be
:27:16. > :27:19.surprised by that. Of course I'm responding to this here? Because in
:27:20. > :27:23.circumstances like those we are talking about, provokation or
:27:24. > :27:28.miscalculation can result in a shot. If we have one shot we will probably
:27:29. > :27:32.have a conflag grace. Does it tell you that Putin's approach is a
:27:33. > :27:38.benign one if he doesn't want to make sure of the people of Crimea? I
:27:39. > :27:44.must say the use of the word "benign" in these circumstances does
:27:45. > :27:48.take me aback. The garrisons are being surrounded, people are being
:27:49. > :27:54.told by their commanding officer they have to give up their loyalty
:27:55. > :27:58.to Kiev, give up their loyalty to Ukraine and subordinate that loyalty
:27:59. > :28:02.to Putin and those acting on his behalf. That is not benign in any
:28:03. > :28:07.circumstance. Where is safe, if Crimea is not safe from this kind of
:28:08. > :28:12.approach, where else in the Ukraine is safe, are there any borders?
:28:13. > :28:15.Crimea is part of the country. Because not a single time in the
:28:16. > :28:23.past the people of Crimea were given a chance for a referendum,
:28:24. > :28:28.Khrushchev, a murderous thug, hold on, threw away Crimea to the
:28:29. > :28:33.Ukraine, you know why? Because he killed and presided over the MRDers
:28:34. > :28:39.of so many Ukrainians, he had to give them a President. Nobody asked
:28:40. > :28:43.the people in Crimea where theyn't wanted to be, they were given them
:28:44. > :28:48.away. Nobody asked the people of Georgia, or South Ossetia, they
:28:49. > :28:54.should have been the subject of a Russian takeover. I'm sorry. They
:28:55. > :28:57.were provoked. It was with American money and weapons. They were
:28:58. > :29:00.provoked into doing it, you know that.
:29:01. > :29:04.We will leave it there, thank you very much we understand that John
:29:05. > :29:09.Bolton had a prior engagment he had to hurry away to.
:29:10. > :29:12.The English are obsessed with their old school, suggested the Education
:29:13. > :29:17.Secretary today, calling the habit an English disease. Michael Gove
:29:18. > :29:21.defended the number of old Eatonians in the cabinet, and said it was
:29:22. > :29:24.indefensible that so many actors and board members were privately
:29:25. > :29:29.educated. He dismissed his critics of state schools as being a bit di
:29:30. > :29:34.As far as higher education is going on the visit to Formula One
:29:35. > :29:39.manufacturers, McLaren, he told us that middle-class parents should
:29:40. > :29:42.aspire for their children to be apprentices and insists businesses
:29:43. > :29:46.provided more places. You have said this morning there is no excuse for
:29:47. > :29:49.businesses not to take on apprentices, what happens if they
:29:50. > :29:54.don't? Business has said in the past, apprenticeships have been too
:29:55. > :29:56.bureaucratic and the method of funding apprenticeships hasn't
:29:57. > :30:00.necessarily suited us. We have removed that. There is no excuse.
:30:01. > :30:04.And if businesses choose not to engage they will have to justify
:30:05. > :30:09.themselves in the public square. Should there be any comeback. You
:30:10. > :30:12.say they ought to justify themselves in the public square, what do you
:30:13. > :30:15.mean, should there be comeback for those who want to engage? It
:30:16. > :30:21.shouldn't be that we penalise them, it is in the self-interest of any
:30:22. > :30:24.company to engage with the apprenticeship programme. We should
:30:25. > :30:28.ask business what they are doing to play a bigger part in the education
:30:29. > :30:34.system. In policy terms I would say it is a nudge rather than a direct
:30:35. > :30:42.intervention. If you look at a Rolls-Royce or British air he row
:30:43. > :30:47.space apprenticeships, it is better to go there than a university. It is
:30:48. > :30:50.a superior option to university, it provides not just an experience of
:30:51. > :30:53.the work place and income, but also with the level of intellectual
:30:54. > :30:58.challenge greater than some universities. Many apprenticeships
:30:59. > :31:05.are noin that sphere. Today advertised on the Internet swathes
:31:06. > :31:10.of apprenticeships, they were jobs but are now apprenticeships paying
:31:11. > :31:13.?2. 90. Are you saying you want parents to aspire to that for their
:31:14. > :31:18.children in the same way as they would aspire to universities?
:31:19. > :31:21.Absolutely situate rite that parents should want their children to have
:31:22. > :31:24.the option certainly to go to university, at the same time I don't
:31:25. > :31:27.think there is anything wrong and there is a lot that's admirable
:31:28. > :31:32.about saying you want to experience the world of work. You are in a
:31:33. > :31:37.sense trying to change aspiration. You in your speech made a link
:31:38. > :31:40.between vocational and academic education and working and
:31:41. > :31:46.middle-class children. It is a class issue isn't it? We have had, I
:31:47. > :31:50.think, a damaging view in this country that success, narrowly
:31:51. > :31:55.designed as academic success, is only available to a limited number.
:31:56. > :31:59.As you know, that view doesn't hold and hasn't held in other countries
:32:00. > :32:04.from Scotland to Singapore. It is not a class issue, it is an England
:32:05. > :32:08.issue. It is one we have to overcome if we're going to make sure that
:32:09. > :32:13.every child achieves their full potential. Specifically an English
:32:14. > :32:16.issue in your view? It is an English problem that we have not valued the
:32:17. > :32:23.practical and technical in the same way as we value the academic. I
:32:24. > :32:26.think it is an English issue that we have an unequal education system,
:32:27. > :32:30.with opportunity distributed in such a way as to mean that children who
:32:31. > :32:33.go to independent fee-paying schools and the best state schools have many
:32:34. > :32:36.more opportunities than children who have gone to other state schools,
:32:37. > :32:41.but that is changing. Some people might suggest that the picture has
:32:42. > :32:46.gone into reverse around the cabinet table, even many of your own MPs
:32:47. > :32:49.believe that the very top bracket of politics, the cabinet table and the
:32:50. > :32:53.Prime Minister's team is far too dominated by those who have been
:32:54. > :32:55.privately educated? It is a consequence, isn't t of the
:32:56. > :32:58.education system that we have inherited. David Cameron isn't
:32:59. > :33:04.responsible for the school to which he went, neither is George Osborne.
:33:05. > :33:07.The fact that we had social mobility go backwards in this country was a
:33:08. > :33:13.consequence of some mistic it is a we made in the education system in
:33:14. > :33:17.the 1960s and 1970s. Are you suggesting there aren't people with
:33:18. > :33:19.equivalent abilities in the rest of the Conservative Party. There are
:33:20. > :33:24.many Conservative backbenchers who argue this is a problem? There are
:33:25. > :33:28.certainly people, it is an English disease to pay too close attention
:33:29. > :33:34.to where someone went to school, but, since we are, if you are
:33:35. > :33:38.sitting round the cabinet stable, then some of the voices who are most
:33:39. > :33:44.influential come from those people who have not come from guilded and
:33:45. > :33:48.privileged backgrounds. It is defensible to have so many private
:33:49. > :33:54.companies run by public schoolgirls and boys. Is it defensible that so
:33:55. > :33:59.many actors, sports stars to whom our children are encouraged to
:34:00. > :34:03.aspire come from private schools. It is not defensible, of course, so we
:34:04. > :34:07.need to change. Does it disappoint you that the warm-up for the next
:34:08. > :34:11.Conservative leadership contest, which is evidenced all over the
:34:12. > :34:16.place now also seems to be playing out between two public school boys?
:34:17. > :34:19.I'm not aware of any speculation about leadership other than the
:34:20. > :34:24.choice between David Cameron and Ed Miliband in the next election.
:34:25. > :34:29.Haven't you been reading the papers? You will have to quote me the
:34:30. > :34:32.speculation, the only leadership question that counts is whether or
:34:33. > :34:35.not we want David Cameron or Ed Miliband leading this country after
:34:36. > :34:40.the next election. You described in this speech this extraordinary place
:34:41. > :34:44.as being like a Bond villain's layer. Do you care that quite
:34:45. > :34:47.significant swathes of the educational establishment,
:34:48. > :34:52.professional people, see you as a bit of a villain in terms of what
:34:53. > :34:57.you are doing, does it bother you? I don't go out of my way to solicit or
:34:58. > :35:01.invite opposition, you will never get unanimity about any set of
:35:02. > :35:07.political changes until after the politician driving them through has
:35:08. > :35:11.long left the field. The argument I find is that some people say
:35:12. > :35:15.sometimes your changes are too great in scope and introduced too rapidly.
:35:16. > :35:18.But no-one, that I'm a ware of, has been -- aware of has been able to
:35:19. > :35:26.argue against higher standards in schools, more autonomy for head
:35:27. > :35:32.teachers, and or rigorous exams. The opposition you allude to tend to be
:35:33. > :35:39.the inertia of defenders of the status quo, rather than a desection
:35:40. > :35:43.of anything we are doing. -- desection of anything we are doing.
:35:44. > :35:48.She was the biggest thing to come out of Benefits Street, a Channel
:35:49. > :35:53.four reality show that showed one street in Birmingham that rocked to
:35:54. > :35:56.infamy. Today we ask White Dee, the self-styled mother of the street
:35:57. > :36:07.what she made of the show and how it has changed her life and community.
:36:08. > :36:12.She has been described as the Queen of Benefits Street, the one-woman
:36:13. > :36:17.citizens advice bureau, and the patron saint of drug addicts and
:36:18. > :36:20.dropouts. White Dee became the star of Benefits Street with their fourth
:36:21. > :36:25.right advice on everything, from staying sober to dealing with the
:36:26. > :36:28.benefits office. Suspending your claim because there is a change in
:36:29. > :36:32.your income. Don't worry about it. The self-pro-claimed mother of
:36:33. > :36:36.Benefits Street, a convicted street who has been out of work for seven
:36:37. > :36:41.years, has divided opinion and generated headlines almost as much
:36:42. > :36:45.as the series itself. Since it has broadcast, the show has triggered
:36:46. > :36:49.impassions debate, about the exploitation of poor people for
:36:50. > :36:54.entertainment, the rights and wrongs of the benefit system in its
:36:55. > :36:58.entirety. And whether or not the show's protaganists were misled
:36:59. > :37:03.about the show. It was clear about the nature of the programme, why
:37:04. > :37:07.they were and the end product. What does the unlikely celebrity at the
:37:08. > :37:13.heart of it, now with a PR manager, calling her a "working-class hero",
:37:14. > :37:17.really feel about how they were portrayed. With news of a music
:37:18. > :37:25.deal, a plus size modelling opportunity and Big Brother house,
:37:26. > :37:33.and a chance to become an MP, what now for White Dee and her benefits.
:37:34. > :37:37.How has your life changed over the last couple of months? It hasn't
:37:38. > :37:42.personally changed in the way that I'm still, you know, I'm still a mum
:37:43. > :37:46.of two children. But it is like being thrown into the limelight when
:37:47. > :37:54.you are just not completely, you are not used to it at all, is just a
:37:55. > :38:01.real shock. Does it feel like -- Does it feel like things are better
:38:02. > :38:05.or worse? Busier, I wouldn't say better. Everyone knows you, the
:38:06. > :38:09.street has turned into a bit of a tourist attraction. You cannot drive
:38:10. > :38:17.up and down that road on a Saturday or a Sunday. So this is the poverty
:38:18. > :38:22.porn in action is it, do you understand why that phrase came
:38:23. > :38:28.about? Not particularly. We still dispute the fact and we would argue
:38:29. > :38:36.to Channel four that at no time whatsoever did they tell us it was
:38:37. > :38:41.in any way related to benefits. With regards to "poverty porn", we don't
:38:42. > :38:45.class ourselves as in poverty. We are fine we survive with the help
:38:46. > :38:49.and support of each other. So they never told you it was about
:38:50. > :38:53.benefits? No they did not. When did they tell you it was going to be
:38:54. > :38:59.called Benefits Street? About two weeks before the show aired. It
:39:00. > :39:02.wasn't done officially. Somebody just let slip that it was called
:39:03. > :39:08.Benefits Street and that's when we all went absolutely mad. We went...
:39:09. > :39:12.What did you think it would be called? They asked us for
:39:13. > :39:18.suggestions as to what maybe we think the show would be called. Some
:39:19. > :39:25.said Friends With Benefits, others said We Will Survive. The kids made
:39:26. > :39:28.their Ghetto This, the teenagers. Why bother asking us if they knew
:39:29. > :39:31.what they were going to call it. When you found out it was going to
:39:32. > :39:37.be called Benefits Street, you said you went mad. Did anyone try to
:39:38. > :39:43.change that or pull the show or step in? Obviously we hadn't viewed the
:39:44. > :39:47.episodes by the time, when we actually found out it was going to
:39:48. > :39:52.be called benefits street. We did make calls to Channel four and Love
:39:53. > :39:55.Production. Not just me a few of the residents. At the end of the day
:39:56. > :39:59.they had named the show what they wanted to name the show. So no
:40:00. > :40:04.matter what we did, they had no intentions of pulling it or renaming
:40:05. > :40:07.it. They told us that this was a fair and balanced reflection of life
:40:08. > :40:14.on the street, would you go with that? No. What would you call it?
:40:15. > :40:19.How could it be fair and balanced when basically all they are doing is
:40:20. > :40:23.focussing on four or five people. Most of the people they have
:40:24. > :40:31.focussed on don't actually live on the street. They spent time with
:40:32. > :40:36.many a working couple, pensioners. So they didn't live on the street?
:40:37. > :40:41.No, they did, but quite a few people that were shown in the programme
:40:42. > :40:51.don't live on the street. They told us that contributors were briefed
:40:52. > :40:56.extensively before the show was aired. And they had been in regular
:40:57. > :40:59.contact since? They didn't brief us extensively about the name of the
:41:00. > :41:04.show. They briefed you about the show? No, basically we have a local
:41:05. > :41:09.councillor who has written confirmation saying the show is
:41:10. > :41:13.about community spirit. There are quite a few people who have it in
:41:14. > :41:18.writing what the show was supposedly about and it wasn't benefits. At the
:41:19. > :41:27.end of this experience, how do you view Channel 4 and the show itself
:41:28. > :41:32.then? They were very clever. Obviously we can't regret. We have
:41:33. > :41:36.done it, it has happened. People are talking about it. But basically I
:41:37. > :41:45.think it is just the fact that it is sort of them against us. You know.
:41:46. > :41:50.We have no reason to lie, you never said it to us. Did they lie to you?
:41:51. > :41:54.Yes they did. People will be watching this and saying you, many
:41:55. > :41:59.on your street have done pretty well from this, you have rocketed to
:42:00. > :42:05.fame, you must be making money from this now aren't you? Not
:42:06. > :42:09.necessarily. It is, a lot of people do presume, they presume that the
:42:10. > :42:14.second you appear on the telly, all of a sudden you are getting money.
:42:15. > :42:17.It doesn't work like that. Am I getting paid for sitting here
:42:18. > :42:22.tonight? Your agent said that you have had a lot of offers as a result
:42:23. > :42:26.of this? I have had a lot of offers, yeah. Are those offers that you are
:42:27. > :42:32.getting paid for? Not all of them, no. But you are getting paid now? If
:42:33. > :42:36.I accepted the offers then yes I would, I haven't accepted anything
:42:37. > :42:43.at all at the moment. So you haven't made any money yet from this? As of
:42:44. > :42:51.this precise moment in time, no. Why not? Because I don't know, it is
:42:52. > :42:55.like if someone offers me to go on a radio station, basically I will go
:42:56. > :43:02.on the radio station. I'm having to justify myself. And say what you
:43:03. > :43:11.have seen is a little bit of my life. You are still on benefits now,
:43:12. > :43:15.do you intend to stay on benefits? Not if I start getting an income. Is
:43:16. > :43:20.that the direction you would like to go in now, you would like to earn
:43:21. > :43:23.money from this now and come off benefits? Not necessarily from this.
:43:24. > :43:29.But obviously I would like to get a job, yeah. A lot of people will be
:43:30. > :43:35.watching and saying hang on a second, you are on ?214 a week, why
:43:36. > :43:39.carry on claiming those when you, offers have been coming in, we know,
:43:40. > :43:43.we have spoken to your agent that says there are offers on the table
:43:44. > :43:48.now which could mean you could leave the life behind, why wouldn't you
:43:49. > :43:51.take that? I don't want to leave my life behind. Your life on benefits
:43:52. > :43:55.though? That is a different kettle of fish. Just because there are
:43:56. > :43:59.offers on the table it doesn't mean I'm going to get money today,
:44:00. > :44:03.tomorrow or next week. But you are still getting money from the
:44:04. > :44:06.taxpayer then as things stand? I'm still on benefits because I'm not
:44:07. > :44:10.receiving any other income at the moment. You have been asked to be on
:44:11. > :44:15.Big Brother, is that something you will take up? Not necessarily. I
:44:16. > :44:20.have a lot to think about, it is like they have approached, they
:44:21. > :44:24.haven't made any offer. I don't know any figures involved. I haven't
:44:25. > :44:28.signed anything. What about other jobs, the doors must be open to you
:44:29. > :44:34.to do a lot of other things now. Are you applying for other jobs now? I'm
:44:35. > :44:44.not applying for jobs at the moment. I still have my down days and up
:44:45. > :44:49.days. I have just been thrown into the public and I just I'm not 100%
:44:50. > :44:54.sure how to cope with it, I have never been in this situation before
:44:55. > :45:03.with people wanting to talk to you and interview you and I have just
:45:04. > :45:07.never, you know, it at thes completely new to me -- it's
:45:08. > :45:11.completely new to me. Thank you for coming and talking to
:45:12. > :45:18.us. We're going to take you through a look at some of the papers before
:45:19. > :45:24.we da tonight. There is one which has taken the front page of the
:45:25. > :45:28.Daily Mail. Child porn Number Ten aide arrested. They are saying one
:45:29. > :45:33.of David Cameron's closest aides has resigned after being arrested on
:45:34. > :45:38.child pornography allegations. Perhaps we can go to Laura. You have
:45:39. > :45:45.been looking at this, can you shed any more light? Number Ten has
:45:46. > :45:49.confirmed that one of David Cameron's advisers, Patrick Rock,
:45:50. > :45:54.the deputy director of policy was arrested in the middle of last month
:45:55. > :45:59.over allegations of child pornography and potential abuses
:46:00. > :46:03.relating to child abuse imagery. He resigned immediately and not in his
:46:04. > :46:07.post, Number Ten has arranged for police officers to go in and look at
:46:08. > :46:12.files or IT that they see as being appropriate. From what we understand
:46:13. > :46:15.there were previous allegations of harassment made against Mr Rock
:46:16. > :46:21.while he was working in Downing Street where he has been since 2011.
:46:22. > :46:26.Not associated to these potential charges, but interesting
:46:27. > :46:30.nonetheless. This is tricky, embarrassing loss for Number Ten.
:46:31. > :46:35.Not just because of the humiliation of the police having to go into
:46:36. > :46:39.Downing Street over such kinds of allegations and also because when he
:46:40. > :46:42.went into Downing Street he was seen as someone well trusted. He had been
:46:43. > :46:47.in the Conservative Party for a long time and had been close to David
:46:48. > :46:51.Cameron for a long time. They were special advisers together back in
:46:52. > :46:56.the late 1990s. This is an embarrassment and blow for the Prime
:46:57. > :47:03.Minister. , the I arrest of his -- the arrest of his fixer, Patrick
:47:04. > :47:07.Rock. Any word from him th evening? No official statement. One of the
:47:08. > :47:12.things that makes it doubly awkward is he was involved in advising the
:47:13. > :47:15.Prime Minister on child internet pornography. Anything awkward but
:47:16. > :47:20.right to point out we have no official statement from Mr Rock
:47:21. > :47:26.himself. That is all for tonight, but Kirsty is here with much more
:47:27. > :47:30.tomorrow. From all of us here good night.