:00:08. > :00:13.With a victim of domestic violence, what are the chances of your
:00:14. > :00:17.attacker ending up in court. The truth is, it depends where you live.
:00:18. > :00:21.When I didn't do anything about it, it gave him a green light to come
:00:22. > :00:25.back the following weekend and the next weekend. The crime prevention
:00:26. > :00:31.minister faces the shadow Home Secretary? In an age when they say
:00:32. > :00:36.we are all under surveillance, how can an enormous airliner with 200
:00:37. > :00:41.people on board simply vanish. The ex-wife of the king of Saudi Arabia,
:00:42. > :00:52.tells us her daughters are being kept prisoner in the gulf.
:00:53. > :00:55.To be attacked is one thing, to be attacked within your home is
:00:56. > :00:59.another. To be attacked, often repeatedly in your own home, by
:01:00. > :01:03.someone with whom you have been in an intimate relationship is a
:01:04. > :01:08.special class of crime. The police forces of England and Wales say they
:01:09. > :01:12.have been making a conscientious effort to improve wait they deal
:01:13. > :01:21.with these cases, yet some seem to be trying harder than others. It
:01:22. > :01:27.wasn't home to me. It wasn't a home, to me it was a prison. It was a
:01:28. > :01:36.place I was being kept, I was being assaulted. Home should be where the
:01:37. > :01:41.heart is, not the hurt. But for too many women and some men violence
:01:42. > :01:45.behind closed doors is the norm. Claire Baker was terroristised by
:01:46. > :01:52.her partner, then she says the police let her down. I locked myself
:01:53. > :01:57.in the bathroom and called the police and waited for them to turn
:01:58. > :02:03.up. I was staying in the bathroom and screaming, just come, just
:02:04. > :02:08.somebody help me. Because he was so bad to me I always had it in my mind
:02:09. > :02:13.that he was going to go too far and he perhaps was going to kill me. How
:02:14. > :02:19.did the police help you or not? It was just luck of the draw on the
:02:20. > :02:23.day. If an officer turned up who knew anything about domestic
:02:24. > :02:27.violence they were really good to me. Some of the officers were
:02:28. > :02:35.absolutely brilliant to me. And then other officers they just treated it
:02:36. > :02:41.really as it was nothing. In Warwickshire, nearby where eventual
:02:42. > :02:44.conviction rights for domestic violence are high. Only a fraction
:02:45. > :02:52.of reported incidents get to court in the first place. There are
:02:53. > :02:55.significant differences, the darker colours where fewer cases are
:02:56. > :03:18.referred to prosecutors. This is about so much more than
:03:19. > :03:21.numbers. This is about what happens to women who are brave enough to
:03:22. > :03:29.come forward when they have been hurt. And what happens next is all
:03:30. > :03:32.too often dictated by where they live This isn't to do with the
:03:33. > :03:37.profile of the case but the issue in that local area. Whether the Chief
:03:38. > :03:44.Constable says it is important, whether all of the Sergeants that
:03:45. > :03:49.they are responsible for. Whether it is the constables feeling it is
:03:50. > :03:53.their responsibility to deliver access to justice to women. They
:03:54. > :04:00.make a difference. How do police forces like Warwickshire, who refer
:04:01. > :04:04.such a small portion of cases to prosecutors explain themselves. We
:04:05. > :04:08.have strongly encouraged senior detectives, professional experienced
:04:09. > :04:12.people, to really look at each individual case, work with the
:04:13. > :04:15.officer investigating that case. As I said, arrive at the right outcome
:04:16. > :04:21.for the victim. Doesn't that mean though that crimes are going
:04:22. > :04:25.unpunished? Not at all. The thing is that a court appearance for a victim
:04:26. > :04:29.is a painful and traumatic experience. We need to have a
:04:30. > :04:33.realistic prospect that if we go to court that we are going to have that
:04:34. > :04:38.criminal justice outcome and the perpetrator does receive justice.
:04:39. > :04:42.What though can justify you referring 3% of domestic violence
:04:43. > :04:47.cases and a force like Cheshire referring more than 30%? If a case
:04:48. > :04:54.is right to take to court, and the CPS support that, we will do that. I
:04:55. > :05:00.don't want give any impression that we are going soft on people who
:05:01. > :05:04.commit such horrendous crimes. One insider told me resources at the CPS
:05:05. > :05:07.are part of the problem. Every agency is suffering, they said, and
:05:08. > :05:11.cuts mean they have to go after cases where there is a higher chance
:05:12. > :05:16.of conviction, inevitably that means others get left by the way side. The
:05:17. > :05:21.Association of Chief Police Officers admits there are variations. They
:05:22. > :05:23.told us we have substantially improved with investment in
:05:24. > :05:42.specialist officers... Claire has rebuilt her life now,
:05:43. > :05:47.with the help of the local Women's Aid. Her ex-partner was eventually
:05:48. > :05:51.convicted. Me believes she suffered longer than she had to. I felt like
:05:52. > :05:54.he had come back time after time because when they didn't do anything
:05:55. > :06:00.about it, it gave him a green light to come back the following weekend,
:06:01. > :06:03.and the next weekend. With an uneven patchwork of police approaches
:06:04. > :06:09.around the country, she may not be the only one. We speak to Norman
:06:10. > :06:13.Baker the Home Office Minister shortly first I'm joined by Yvette
:06:14. > :06:18.Cooper, the shadow Home Secretary. These figures are based on a lot of
:06:19. > :06:22.work by the Labour Party. What do you conclude is the reason the
:06:23. > :06:26.picture is so patchy. I think there is two problems, first is the wide
:06:27. > :06:31.variation between forces, the second is that the picture has been getting
:06:32. > :06:35.worse across the country. So you have got a drop in the level of
:06:36. > :06:39.convictions and the level of referrals, in six out of seven
:06:40. > :06:43.forces, as well as this wide variation. And I think there is just
:06:44. > :06:48.not national standards in place for dealing with such a serious crime
:06:49. > :06:52.and there needs to be. Were there national standards in place when you
:06:53. > :06:57.were in office? I think we had done a lot of work to make improvements,
:06:58. > :06:59.for example around introducing specialist domestic violence courts.
:07:00. > :07:02.I don't think there were national standards in place, that is why this
:07:03. > :07:05.is the next step we need to have those national standards in place.
:07:06. > :07:08.We have been calling for them for several years now. As you know it
:07:09. > :07:13.was almost impossible to get this sort of information when you were in
:07:14. > :07:17.office, wasn't it? No, that's not true actually. If you look at
:07:18. > :07:20.particularly the issues around referrals and convictions, those
:07:21. > :07:26.were increasing as a result of a lot of hard work that was done between
:07:27. > :07:30.the police, the CPS, and leadership by a Labour Government introducing
:07:31. > :07:34.specialist prosecutors, introducing specialist teams and stronger
:07:35. > :07:40.training. The big problem is it has gone backwards. The problems when
:07:41. > :07:43.you were in office were more difficult? We have done it with
:07:44. > :07:48.Freedom of Information requests, and identified this information exactly
:07:49. > :07:51.because we think there is a serious problem. And the Government is not
:07:52. > :07:56.doing enough. If you had this level of violence at football matches, and
:07:57. > :07:59.there would be national outcry, there isn't because it takes place
:08:00. > :08:03.behind the net curtains. This Government brought in publication of
:08:04. > :08:06.the rape statistics wasn't it? No, in fact they haven't. The Government
:08:07. > :08:10.hasn't produced a lot of this information. So look it is important
:08:11. > :08:14.to have it, and we think you ought to provide more of this information
:08:15. > :08:16.on a consistent basis because that would help improve standards across
:08:17. > :08:20.the country. There is a real problem here, as your report said, that
:08:21. > :08:25.people don't feel they are getting the support they need. Victims are
:08:26. > :08:27.not getting the support they need in such a horrible crime and it is
:08:28. > :08:35.getting worse. Since the election you have had an 11 pest increase %
:08:36. > :08:40.increase in domestic violence cases being reported, and an 11% drop in
:08:41. > :08:44.the number of convictions for domestic violence. You have
:08:45. > :08:48.perpetrators of abuse getting away with it. Is it better that police
:08:49. > :08:51.officers exercise their judgment? Of course police officers have to
:08:52. > :08:55.exercise judgment every day of the week. But at the moment you are
:08:56. > :08:59.seeing such wide variations, I think we need national standards in place
:09:00. > :09:03.about support for victims, about the way in which the police need to
:09:04. > :09:06.respond, and the Government so far refused to do that. We also think we
:09:07. > :09:10.should have a national commissioner in place to deal with domestic and
:09:11. > :09:13.sexual violence because there are similar problems around rape cases.
:09:14. > :09:17.And you can give a guarantee, can you, that under a Labour Government
:09:18. > :09:21.there would be no more of the pattern of the closure of Rape
:09:22. > :09:26.Crisis centres that we saw when Labour was last in power? If you
:09:27. > :09:30.think about all of the work that the Labour Government did. On both rape
:09:31. > :09:34.and domestic violence, we had for example a 45% increase in rape
:09:35. > :09:39.convictions, there was a lot of work that was very good, was it enough?
:09:40. > :09:44.No of course it wasn't. Because you had serious crimes like this. And
:09:45. > :09:49.Rape Crisis Centres closed on your woke didn't they? There was a lot of
:09:50. > :09:52.support for victims, the independent advisers on domestic violence and
:09:53. > :09:55.rape as well. You want to do more, and in fact the clock has been
:09:56. > :09:59.turning back instead of going further. You can give that
:10:00. > :10:04.guarantee? You know I'm not going to set out funding for things in the
:10:05. > :10:08.next parliament at this stage. At this stage. It is a test of your
:10:09. > :10:11.commitment? We have said our commitment is to have national
:10:12. > :10:15.standards for domestic violence, sexual violence, dealing with rape
:10:16. > :10:18.cases and a national commissioner in place who could make sure that those
:10:19. > :10:23.standards are enforced. Because I do think that you need national
:10:24. > :10:29.leadership on this. And Teresa May hasn't done anything to spot this
:10:30. > :10:32.deterioration in action against such serious crimes, particularly against
:10:33. > :10:37.women. Although domestic violence includes women as well. Thank you
:10:38. > :10:40.very much. Now Norman Baker who is the crime prevention minister is
:10:41. > :10:45.with us. What is your explanation for the fact that picture are so
:10:46. > :10:50.patchy? They are, and that is one of the reasons why the Home Secretary
:10:51. > :10:53.and I have asked the Inspector of Constabulary to look at all 43
:10:54. > :10:56.forces in England and Wales to examine why it is patchy and why the
:10:57. > :11:01.domestic violence rates are different. That work is on going, it
:11:02. > :11:06.is completely produced soon with a proper comment from HMRC. You were
:11:07. > :11:08.unaware of it before today? Of course not. That is why the Home
:11:09. > :11:12.Secretary and I commissioned the work. We recognised there was an
:11:13. > :11:15.issue of disparity across the country. There are a number of
:11:16. > :11:18.possible explanations, it is possible different forces are
:11:19. > :11:22.looking at it in different ways, and crimes are being recorded under a
:11:23. > :11:28.different heading, violence and not domestic violence. HMRC is looking
:11:29. > :11:32.into that and referral process. When did you commission the research?
:11:33. > :11:35.Last year. How many years did it take to realise there was a patchy
:11:36. > :11:38.picture? That is not fair, there is a huge amount of work going on in
:11:39. > :11:41.the Home Office since 2010. The Home Secretary has been very good on
:11:42. > :11:48.these issues, I have to say. We have seen the roll out of Claire's Law,
:11:49. > :11:51.the disclosure orders to protect women from potentially violent
:11:52. > :11:55.partners and the protection orders to allow the sort of person in your
:11:56. > :11:59.film to be able to stay in your house and the perpetrator be removed
:12:00. > :12:04.from it rather than her leaving it. There is an action plan we published
:12:05. > :12:09.an updated version on Saturdayed, for International Women's Day. Why
:12:10. > :12:12.does it take the Labour Party or the House of Commons library to go
:12:13. > :12:16.through a Freedom of Information exercise to find out much of the
:12:17. > :12:22.information? It doesn't. It has done? No, it will be published hash
:12:23. > :12:26.on this -- later on this month with a commentary per force, so people
:12:27. > :12:31.can look at individual forces and see what they are doing, rather than
:12:32. > :12:35.taking figures, I'm not blaming Yvette and her team. That is patchy,
:12:36. > :12:39.we want a full proper analysis, and that will be coming forward. What do
:12:40. > :12:43.you make then of the argument that police forces and the Crown
:12:44. > :12:46.Prosecution Service are under pressure that wasn't previously
:12:47. > :12:49.there before you took office? They are under pressure from ministers to
:12:50. > :12:53.deal with domestic violence properly, they are under pressure
:12:54. > :12:58.from us to deal with rape properly. That is a pressure I accept. It has
:12:59. > :13:01.nothing to do with resources? If you are asking about resources, crime
:13:02. > :13:04.has gone down 10% under this Government. We have seen violent
:13:05. > :13:09.crime go down as well. That is measured not simply by police
:13:10. > :13:13.recorded crime but also the official independent crime survey of England
:13:14. > :13:17.and Wales. And the police have fewer crimes to deal with. There is the
:13:18. > :13:20.digitalisation of the police force, so less paperwork to do. I don't
:13:21. > :13:26.think resources is the issue here. The issue is perhaps a culture thing
:13:27. > :13:30.in each force, which HMRC will get to the bottom of. You are in favour
:13:31. > :13:35.of policemen exercising judgment aren't you? Of course. When they
:13:36. > :13:39.exercise judgment you are going to get discrepancies? You will get
:13:40. > :13:41.differences. But if the difference is significant it is perfectly
:13:42. > :13:46.proper and right for the Government to ask the proper body n this case
:13:47. > :13:49.the Inspector of Constabulary to look at the differences and find out
:13:50. > :13:53.the reason. And whether or not some women and indeed men for that matter
:13:54. > :13:59.are not being given the support they have been given by the system. The
:14:00. > :14:02.rescuers searching for the traces of the malaisian airliner which
:14:03. > :14:06.disappeared are still criss-crossing the sea south of Vietnam, it is now
:14:07. > :14:13.three days since the aircraft disappeared. Three days since 239
:14:14. > :14:19.hum beings vanished. In an age we are all subject to surveillance and
:14:20. > :14:24.personal phones emit GPS signals, how can such a thing happen. It is
:14:25. > :14:36.not unprecedented but it is highly unusual.
:14:37. > :14:40.The hours pass and still no sign of Malaysian Airlines flight. Hours of
:14:41. > :14:45.anger and uncertainty for families with nowhere to go. Couped up in a
:14:46. > :14:49.Beijing hotel until they and we know what happened to the 239 passengers
:14:50. > :14:54.and crew. At the moment there are just questions. In many cases what
:14:55. > :15:01.sounds like heart-breakingly defiant optimisim. TRANSLATION: Our hearts
:15:02. > :15:04.are hanging in the air. We hope our Government can put some pressure on
:15:05. > :15:09.them to increase their efforts to save them. Meanwhile the Chinese
:15:10. > :15:13.Government is sending out increasingly impatient criticism of
:15:14. > :15:19.the search effort by both Malaysia and Vietnam. How is it possible that
:15:20. > :15:26.we don't know what happened to this plane? If it exploded in midair US
:15:27. > :15:29.spy satellites, that notice the smallest flare of a missile launch,
:15:30. > :15:32.would have expected to see a flash. Sources have confirmed they have
:15:33. > :15:36.gone back over the images and found nothing. If the aircraft came down
:15:37. > :15:40.in one piece it should have been visible to radar, and the crew,
:15:41. > :15:45.should, in theory would have had time to issue a distress call. To
:15:46. > :15:51.add to the riddle the plane was fitted with the next generation of
:15:52. > :15:59.satellite tracking systems. Called ADSB, the plane gets its position
:16:00. > :16:03.from a GPs a GPS satellite, it broadcasts this speed and altitude
:16:04. > :16:08.and other data to anyone with the right receiver. In time air traffic
:16:09. > :16:13.control authorities will move from ground-based radar systems to ADSB.
:16:14. > :16:16.At the moment it is used by flight tracking websites who admit they
:16:17. > :16:21.don't have enough ground stations in the area to give a complete picture.
:16:22. > :16:33.We have one receiver close to Malaysia, and we have one receiver
:16:34. > :16:39.in hoe cheat Ho Chi Min, and in the best conditions we would like to
:16:40. > :16:45.have a receiver every 50-100kms to get really good coverage. What of
:16:46. > :16:51.the flight data recorders? If the plane crashed into the sea the boxes
:16:52. > :16:57.should be sending out sonar pings to guide recovery. But the right
:16:58. > :17:02.receiver are needed to hear them. It may take days to get vessels on to
:17:03. > :17:06.the research grid. In the case of the Air France flight that crashed
:17:07. > :17:11.in the Atlantic on route from Rio to Paris in 2009, the recorders weren't
:17:12. > :17:20.found for nearly two years, and then only found using mathematical
:17:21. > :17:24.modelling. We used something bald basing search theory, it was
:17:25. > :17:29.developed during World War II to search for German submarines. This
:17:30. > :17:33.pulls together information, each piece of information has
:17:34. > :17:38.uncertainties and some conflicts in it. And there is a mathematical
:17:39. > :17:40.theory for a way to account for the uncertainties properly, combine all
:17:41. > :17:47.this information to get the best estimate for the location of the
:17:48. > :17:54.wreck. Meanwhile there are just uncertainties, families with nothing
:17:55. > :18:07.to do but hope and pray. With us now is Professor Grahamrate Braithwaite
:18:08. > :18:10.from Cranfield University. It is not normal? It is incredibly unusual,
:18:11. > :18:14.there have been aircraft that have been difficult to find. It will be
:18:15. > :18:18.found eventually? That is essential. An aircraft like the 777 is used
:18:19. > :18:22.across the world, a very popular aircraft type and there is no way we
:18:23. > :18:27.would accept not finding this aircraft. Even if it takes years it
:18:28. > :18:31.will be done. Could it take years? It is conceivable it could take that
:18:32. > :18:36.time to recover wreckage, we saw that in the Air France 447 accident
:18:37. > :18:42.a few years ago. It is unlikely. If it is sound something will be found
:18:43. > :18:46.relatively quickly. Have you got a theory about how it could suddenly
:18:47. > :18:49.disappear? There is a few explanations for it. But in my
:18:50. > :18:53.discipline of accident investigation you have to be very careful about
:18:54. > :18:57.coming up with theories so early on, because that easily turns into
:18:58. > :19:02.speculation. So it is essential to keep an open find about what may
:19:03. > :19:07.have happened here. Clearly it lost contact and clearly it did so in a
:19:08. > :19:12.way that didn't give many clues as it lost contact. It tells you
:19:13. > :19:15.something about there are lots of possibilities at this stage. I was
:19:16. > :19:19.under the impression that modern planes constantly emitted a signal,
:19:20. > :19:22.is that correct? There is a lot of data leaving an aircraft. Not all of
:19:23. > :19:25.it is there leaving it the whole time to tell you where it is.
:19:26. > :19:28.Particularly if you are flying over an ocean where there are not the
:19:29. > :19:33.ground stations to receive that data. If you multiply that by how
:19:34. > :19:37.many aircraft flying at any one time, that is a huge amount of data.
:19:38. > :19:42.It is not transmitting location all of the time. Can pilots switch it
:19:43. > :19:45.off? It is possible to disable some of that information on t aircraft.
:19:46. > :19:49.Whether you would lose everything that might come down to some very
:19:50. > :19:54.bad luck or a more determined action. So for example one of the
:19:55. > :19:57.things if the aircraft had crashed that they might look for is a
:19:58. > :20:01.locator beacon that should be activated by the crash or entry to
:20:02. > :20:05.water. That beacon can be damaged by an accident. It could be unlucky
:20:06. > :20:12.there and lose the signal before it can be picked up. People always talk
:20:13. > :20:15.in these circumstances about the black box flight recorder as being
:20:16. > :20:19.the thing that would explain to you, although after the event. We saw in
:20:20. > :20:24.the piece there that it took a couple of years or something before
:20:25. > :20:30.they found those off, they are not plaque of course, -- black or
:20:31. > :20:33.anything, off the France flight? I would anticipate they would be
:20:34. > :20:37.found. They emit a signal that should last for 30 days, maybe as
:20:38. > :20:45.long as 90 days. You have to get close to it to pick it up, depending
:20:46. > :20:50.on the depth, defending on the temperature of the ocean, it might
:20:51. > :21:00.be an area close to five miles. You need to know where to look before
:21:01. > :21:04.picking the beacon up. What happens then? Depending on the depth of the
:21:05. > :21:08.water they are likely to send down a remote low-operated vehicle which
:21:09. > :21:13.can recover the recorder and pull it out of the wreckage of the aircraft
:21:14. > :21:16.if it is not separated. Assuming the recorders are working and assuming
:21:17. > :21:20.nobody tried to disable them, that should tell you about what happened
:21:21. > :21:26.on the flight. It isn't the panaseer, it doesn't all tell you
:21:27. > :21:30.the answer. Have you come across cases where they weren't working or
:21:31. > :21:34.had been disabled? There were cases where some of the perameters weren't
:21:35. > :21:38.working. Modern flight data recorders could record hundreds if
:21:39. > :21:41.not thousands of perameters, it is possible some perameters aren't
:21:42. > :21:46.working. Usually there is enough of a picture to tell you the answer.
:21:47. > :21:50.There was a previous case involving Silk Air a few years ago, where the
:21:51. > :21:54.circuit breaker was pulled in flight to disable the flight data recorder
:21:55. > :21:58.before the aircraft crashed. That told us what was going Onyango the
:21:59. > :22:02.aircraft. This is kind of modern nightmare, isn't it, that you get on
:22:03. > :22:07.a plane and you may never be seen again and nobody knows what happened
:22:08. > :22:13.to you, it is extremely rare isn't it? It is, after the Air France
:22:14. > :22:15.accident there was an analysis of how likely an event, where the
:22:16. > :22:26.aircraft that was difficult to find would be, and the demand -- estimate
:22:27. > :22:30.of that was ten years, and we have another one in two or three years.
:22:31. > :22:35.Perhaps there won't be another for 15 years? Let's hope that is the
:22:36. > :22:38.case. It is hardly news to say that Saudi Arabia is one of the most
:22:39. > :22:43.male-dominated societies in the world. Women aren't even supposed to
:22:44. > :22:46.drive cars there. King Abdullah has promised women will be allowed a
:22:47. > :22:50.vote of sorts next year. But his former wife has now claimed that her
:22:51. > :22:57.daughters are being kept under a form of house arrest there. She told
:22:58. > :23:01.the Sunday Times that her daughters are under constant surveillance and
:23:02. > :23:04.appeal for their release. She has agreed to speak us to about the
:23:05. > :23:12.allegations earlier this evening, but she didn't want her identity to
:23:13. > :23:20.be revealed. What do you know about the conditions your daughters are
:23:21. > :23:28.kept in? Very bad conditions, two of them I don't know if you read about
:23:29. > :23:35.that, they are in a terrible state of health. Hala is completely
:23:36. > :23:41.destroyed, anorexic, she needs help, she lives alone and in that villa.
:23:42. > :23:50.The last time she called me a few weeks ago she told me, mummy, I
:23:51. > :23:58.don't have anyone, I'm hungry. No-one is preparing. She said no,
:23:59. > :24:03.no, I have food but I don't want to eat. It is like ready food, junk
:24:04. > :24:11.food or whatever it is. I don't know really what it is. But I know the
:24:12. > :24:16.situation for a woman nobody is helping, if they don't buy you food,
:24:17. > :24:27.bring you food, you can never eat even that. They are not able to go
:24:28. > :24:33.out shopping? I know very well about two of them can go shopping. They
:24:34. > :24:37.can go shopping, but they are not really imprisoned are they? It
:24:38. > :24:45.depends how you look at it. If you only allowed this and then going out
:24:46. > :24:51.so that they will make your trip unbearable so that's it. Basically
:24:52. > :24:59.even a doctor they cannot have the choice to go to. They can't travel,
:25:00. > :25:05.they can't move, if they decide that they will do a trip, they can't do
:25:06. > :25:11.it. Those people who follow them they are not for the safety. And
:25:12. > :25:18.they are just to make the situation terrible for them. Do you know why
:25:19. > :25:22.they are being treated like this? Yeah, yeah. As I have told you, you
:25:23. > :25:29.are owned. For me I was divorced and I didn't go back. Plus he didn't
:25:30. > :25:38.find, I was always obeying his orders. Don't trouble, I was
:25:39. > :25:45.divorced. But he still insisted that if he doesn't want me to travel, he
:25:46. > :25:56.says no, and that means no. Basically I... Have they tried to
:25:57. > :25:59.leave the country? No, how? I suppose they would ask for
:26:00. > :26:08.passports? They asked many times to come and see me, they were refused.
:26:09. > :26:13.The King told them either you marry or die? His other daughters are free
:26:14. > :26:19.to go wherever they want without escorts I know this, I used to come
:26:20. > :26:26.here, travel, go anywhere without anyone. Is it true they are actually
:26:27. > :26:32.imprisoned or held in a palace? Yes. I call it this, when you are locked,
:26:33. > :26:41.your gate is locked from the outside, that means you are
:26:42. > :26:45.imprisoned. You will understand it doesn't sound very grim this prison?
:26:46. > :26:55.It doesn't. For a woman to be not allowed to live normally day and
:26:56. > :26:58.night, watched, I don't know, what do you mean by that, you can't
:26:59. > :27:04.travel, you can't go to see your mother. You make it sound as if they
:27:05. > :27:09.are being held hostage They are. If you return they will be freed? If
:27:10. > :27:16.that is true I will go now. If you can go with me I will go to it and
:27:17. > :27:27.get them. What is the physical condition of your daughters? You
:27:28. > :27:33.mean health wise? Very bad, one is anorexic, complaining from many,
:27:34. > :27:38.many things. I would like not to air what I know of her situation.
:27:39. > :27:43.Because I don't want to harm my own daughter. But she is in a bad
:27:44. > :27:51.health. And the other one is in bad health. The third, the second. And
:27:52. > :28:05.their mental condition? This is what psychologically they are not well.
:28:06. > :28:19.They are left out any treament He's the king, he has all the money to
:28:20. > :28:28.get the best doctors for those two girls. I don't know. We contacted
:28:29. > :28:32.the Saudi embassy about the allegations you just heard and we
:28:33. > :28:37.are extending an invitation for someone to appear on the programme
:28:38. > :28:39.or supply a statement. We were told the embassy doesn't comment on
:28:40. > :28:43.private matters and this is a private matter. There will be yet
:28:44. > :28:46.another meeting tomorrow as much of the western world bonders what it
:28:47. > :28:51.can do about the growing tensions between Russia and Ukraine. There is
:28:52. > :28:58.to be a referendum this weekend to determine whether the crime ma
:28:59. > :29:02.Crimea should stay in the Ukraine for go back to Russia. And David
:29:03. > :29:07.Cameron called it farcical. The Polish Foreign Minister was in the
:29:08. > :29:11.UK to meet William Hague to discuss their response to rising tensions
:29:12. > :29:16.today. Afterwards I asked him why Europe refuses to recognise the
:29:17. > :29:22.referendum? It is under gun point with the presence of foreign troops
:29:23. > :29:26.on Crimea's soil and without the regular electoral rolls, and without
:29:27. > :29:31.the supervision of international bodies. And in violation of
:29:32. > :29:36.Ukraine's constitution. But the definition of nationality is surely
:29:37. > :29:40.the wishes of the people, isn't it? Yes, but we all have constitutions.
:29:41. > :29:45.You are going to have a referendum in Scotland, but it is done by
:29:46. > :29:51.consensus, not by breaking existing law. Wouldn't you allow the
:29:52. > :29:58.possibility that there comes a point when national borders become
:29:59. > :30:07.incoherent? Well, that is exactly the principle at stake. I think
:30:08. > :30:13.after World War ll and the Cold War we have agreed in the international
:30:14. > :30:16.community that when there are ethnic disputes across national boundaries,
:30:17. > :30:21.we try to overcome the boundaries and fulfil the rights of citizens
:30:22. > :30:25.without changing boundaries by force. Which is how the Second World
:30:26. > :30:31.War started. You have done it in Ulster, it has been done all over
:30:32. > :30:41.Europe, and it can be done, provided you use institutions that we have
:30:42. > :30:46.created for those purposes. But it is -- but its international position
:30:47. > :30:52.has changed since the Second World War, but there is no reason it
:30:53. > :30:54.should change again? Ukraine has voluntarily given up nuclear
:30:55. > :31:01.weapons, and received guaranteed from the United States, UK and
:31:02. > :31:06.Russia of her independence. T viability of her borders and
:31:07. > :31:13.freedoms from pressures, for example trade boycotts. Think of what signal
:31:14. > :31:21.would be sent to places like North Korea and Iran of the value of our
:31:22. > :31:25.guarantees in return for dropping nuclear ambitions if we don't
:31:26. > :31:31.protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine. If the majority of people
:31:32. > :31:37.in Crimea say they wish to be part of Russia, who are we to deny that?
:31:38. > :31:45.If the majority of Crimea have an issue with the Ukrainian Government
:31:46. > :31:49.there are ways by the Ukrainian constitutions to do that. If they
:31:50. > :31:53.wanted more autonomy in Ukraine, I think that is something that the
:31:54. > :31:57.Ukrainian Government would consider. We are not talking about autonomy
:31:58. > :32:04.within Ukraine, we are talking about the wish to belong to another
:32:05. > :32:07.country? Well Britain has had those dilemmas before. And you have to be
:32:08. > :32:12.very careful how to handle it. If the majority of people in the
:32:13. > :32:19.Falkland Islands, for example, expressed a wish to become begin
:32:20. > :32:22.Argentinian, we should respect that? The Argentinians invaded and you
:32:23. > :32:27.sent a task force to take the islands back. Pause there are ways
:32:28. > :32:31.-- because there are ways of doing it by law and there are completely
:32:32. > :32:35.unacceptable ways. Because the majority of the people in the
:32:36. > :32:40.Falkland Islands resisted the invasion? We have no idea what the
:32:41. > :32:43.majority of the people of Crimea want, they have not been asked and
:32:44. > :32:47.it is unlikely they will be democratically asked. There is
:32:48. > :32:53.clearly a demand among some people in Crimea not to be part of Ukraine?
:32:54. > :32:57.There may be some, but there are ways that you can express that
:32:58. > :33:02.constitutionally. What better way of judging that than by holding a
:33:03. > :33:08.referendum? It can be done provided it is legal. Not at the point of a
:33:09. > :33:11.foreign gun. Supposing this referendum goes ahead, and it gives,
:33:12. > :33:21.you say it would be unfairly conducted and it gives a result you
:33:22. > :33:26.don't like. What then? Well, I think Russia will, the European Council
:33:27. > :33:29.has decided that there will be consequences, and we are all very
:33:30. > :33:35.reluctant about it. Because we all have commercial relationships with
:33:36. > :33:42.Russia, but the principle of not changing borders by force is an
:33:43. > :33:47.important one. And the European Council has decided that just like
:33:48. > :33:53.the United States Europe will impose a visa ban and asset freezes. Will
:33:54. > :33:59.they go any further than that? I think if Russia invaded mainland
:34:00. > :34:03.Ukraine they would go further. You would accept the invasion of Crimea?
:34:04. > :34:07.No the whole conversation is you trying to accept the invasion of
:34:08. > :34:14.Crimea. I don't understand why it is any business of our's in this
:34:15. > :34:17.country? Because you had leaders who said that these are far way
:34:18. > :34:24.countries of which we know little and we know how it ended. Thank you
:34:25. > :34:29.very much. Paul Brinkley served as the United States deputy under
:34:30. > :34:32.secretary of defence under both the Bush and Obama administrations and
:34:33. > :34:36.is here now. During the time when you were at the Department of
:34:37. > :34:41.Defence, did you ever envisage this sort of situation? In a way you know
:34:42. > :34:47.one of the things we are not talking very much about is what motivates
:34:48. > :34:51.perhaps people in Crimea to seek an alternative governing structure.
:34:52. > :34:56.What motivates people in the Ukraine who recently underwent these events
:34:57. > :34:59.in Kiev to seek an alternati governing structure. What I was
:35:00. > :35:02.personally involved with during those two administrations had to do
:35:03. > :35:06.with the economic underpinnings that lead to conditions that because
:35:07. > :35:10.these rifts to form in the first place. It is interesting if you look
:35:11. > :35:17.at Ukraine's economy, since the fall of the Iron Curtain, it has lagged
:35:18. > :35:21.every other post-Soviet era economy. 06% of the G -- 60% of the
:35:22. > :35:26.neighbouring countries per capita compared to other countries. And if
:35:27. > :35:31.you look at Crimea in the Ukraine you have the same statistical
:35:32. > :35:36.phenomenon. The average cry mean has relative income, 60% of the citizens
:35:37. > :35:41.of the Ukraine. It is interesting to me how the economic disparity in an
:35:42. > :35:44.age of information, when people see neighbouring countries and
:35:45. > :35:48.prosperity emerging in neighbouring countries, it creates a level of
:35:49. > :35:53.frustration that leads n my opinion, to these rifts. The rifts can be
:35:54. > :35:58.sectarian, as we see in the Middle East and central Asia, they can be
:35:59. > :36:02.ethnic, as we are seeing emerge in a place like Ukraine. At the root of
:36:03. > :36:07.them is an absence of economic development, and an access to
:36:08. > :36:11.opportunity, that a population feel seems fair relative to what its
:36:12. > :36:14.neighbours, or its international partners are experiencing. When you
:36:15. > :36:19.look at how the west is struggling to make sense of this and to
:36:20. > :36:24.determine how to respond and you look at the way in which President
:36:25. > :36:30.Obama was wrong-footed over Syria, then sites he has had here about
:36:31. > :36:32.what to d about Ukraine, what do you conclude about American power? I
:36:33. > :36:38.don't know that you conclude anything about American power, but I
:36:39. > :36:42.do think we are going through a period that I think will get more
:36:43. > :36:45.intense in the next few years. We spent a trillion dollars on the
:36:46. > :36:50.effort in Iraq, and the blood of thousands of our young men and
:36:51. > :36:58.women, and thousands and hundreds of British young men and women. A $700
:36:59. > :37:02.billion exercise in Afghanistan, not ending as well as we thought it
:37:03. > :37:06.would be. For us to be intropective on how we engage in foreign policy
:37:07. > :37:11.conflicts perhaps is not to be unexpected of our country. I think
:37:12. > :37:16.it is rational. And I think you also have to look at how we positioned
:37:17. > :37:19.ourselves as "the west", not just the United States but Europeans. In
:37:20. > :37:23.terms of strategic levers the Russians have significant strategic
:37:24. > :37:27.levers that are at play here. Whether they are energy plies
:37:28. > :37:30.supplies to Europe, and -- energy supplies to Europe and financial
:37:31. > :37:34.integration that has taken place and risks to both western and Russian
:37:35. > :37:40.economy that make it much, much more complex to react in the way we might
:37:41. > :37:44.have in years past. You raise Iraq and Afghanistan, what went wrong
:37:45. > :37:47.there? I think for us in Afghanistan, and we are seeing this
:37:48. > :37:51.play out. We have lost sight of something very important in the
:37:52. > :37:55.west. We believed that if we created democratic institutions that all
:37:56. > :38:01.good things would follow. I find this a loss of understanding of our
:38:02. > :38:04.own history in the rest. Democratic institutions were built on economic
:38:05. > :38:09.foundations, they created middle-class prosperity and gave
:38:10. > :38:13.citizenry a stake in those institutions. Afghan GDP today is
:38:14. > :38:17.minimal. The institutions we have worked so hard to establish are
:38:18. > :38:22.almost completely dependant on foreign aid today. I'm very
:38:23. > :38:27.concerned that as we draw down our presence in Afghanistan, and the
:38:28. > :38:31.international community disengaged, we have created a house of cards in
:38:32. > :38:35.Afghanistan because we have lost sight of the economic foundations
:38:36. > :38:40.that are so important. If we believe democratic institutions are
:38:41. > :38:43.desirable, we need to be equally as passionate about creating economic
:38:44. > :38:48.opportunity and a basis for the institutions to rest upon. I wonder
:38:49. > :38:51.what conclusion you draw about the par be a spring and American support
:38:52. > :38:54.for that? I think there is significant American support, but it
:38:55. > :38:58.is also struggling for all the reasons we have said, if you look at
:38:59. > :39:05.Egypt today. The number one problem is economic. You hear it across the
:39:06. > :39:08.piece. It is 80 million people, half very young, frustrated, no
:39:09. > :39:13.opportunity. What do you have that when you have that mix? You have
:39:14. > :39:16.unrest, you have civil discord, and democratic institutions are not
:39:17. > :39:20.sustainable in those circumstances. Those are complicated problems to
:39:21. > :39:25.solve and we struggle to solve them because they are not easy and they
:39:26. > :39:29.are country-specific. Every country has a set of human assets and
:39:30. > :39:34.natural resources that have to be assessed. To approach the problem as
:39:35. > :39:38.we have from the last deck taped, strictly militarily and in terms of
:39:39. > :39:44.the US engagments in the region, the jury is in. We can look at the
:39:45. > :39:57.results and see that adjustment to our foreign policy is overdue.
:39:58. > :40:00.Litarily and in terms of the US engagments in the region, the jury
:40:01. > :40:02.is in. We can look at the results and see that adjustment to our
:40:03. > :40:05.foreign policy is overdue. Do you think the foreign policy you were
:40:06. > :40:08.involved in was wrong? The roles replayed, businessmen who worked in
:40:09. > :40:12.Iraq, Pakistan, to begin to create economic opportunity. That was a
:40:13. > :40:18.very difficult slog, because within my Government institutionally those
:40:19. > :40:23.economic development activities are viewed as emerging from structural
:40:24. > :40:27.implementation of rule of law, democratic institutions. I think
:40:28. > :40:34.that's upside down. And I think we have learned painful lessons from
:40:35. > :40:37.this. Thank you. It is a serious and embarrassing condition which could
:40:38. > :40:40.affect any woman who gives birth. You may not have heard of it,
:40:41. > :40:45.because in a healthy country like our's, it can be avoided or treated
:40:46. > :40:52.quickly and effectively. Yet in the developing world an estimated two
:40:53. > :40:58.million people suffer from T it is called obstetric fistula, it leaves
:40:59. > :41:04.women constantly leaking urine or worse. The BBC's global health
:41:05. > :41:08.correspondent has been to central Uganda. You won't be surprised to
:41:09. > :41:23.learn that her report contains graphic images and details.
:41:24. > :41:30.Crowds are gathering to see local celebrities coming to town. These
:41:31. > :41:37.radio DJs broadcasting throughout the region are just the warm-up act
:41:38. > :41:42.though. The headliners are missionaries from the hospital, here
:41:43. > :41:46.to talk about a condition called obstetric fistula, it is where often
:41:47. > :41:50.younger, smaller mothers develop a hole in their bladder caused by
:41:51. > :41:55.their baby getting stuck in the birth canal during delivery. The
:41:56. > :42:00.woman is left leaking urine constantly. If they gave birth in a
:42:01. > :42:07.hospital rather than at home these problems could be avoided. Most
:42:08. > :42:11.women can't afford to. This community is being told there is a
:42:12. > :42:16.solution for a lucky few who have the condition. For the next two
:42:17. > :42:23.weeks doctors from the UK are offering free fistula repair
:42:24. > :42:28.surgery. Selina and her mum heard the radio show and have arrived at
:42:29. > :42:32.the hospital. She's 17 and in constant discomfort, her underwear
:42:33. > :42:37.stuffed with rags to avoid urine dripping down her legs. Whenever she
:42:38. > :42:41.leaves the house she takes plastic sheets with her. Her story is a
:42:42. > :42:47.particular one. She fell pregnant last year. TRANSLATION: I was at
:42:48. > :42:52.school when I met my boyfriend. He would come and buy me chicken and
:42:53. > :42:59.chips, I didn't know he wanted to get me pregnant. I loved him. She
:43:00. > :43:04.was in labour at home for three days before going to hospital, Sheehy
:43:05. > :43:14.vently delivered a baby girl, who died soon afterwards. TRANSLATION: I
:43:15. > :43:18.didn't even get to hold my baby or Herrera before she died. When I see
:43:19. > :43:26.other women carrying their babies I feel so sad. Her boyfriend left her
:43:27. > :43:36.after the birth, leaving her facing a bleak futureeir babies I feel so
:43:37. > :43:39.sad. Her boyfriend left her after the birth, leaving her facing a
:43:40. > :43:43.bleak future. Before her operation she wanted to show me where she
:43:44. > :43:47.lives. We made the 60km journey. When she arrived there was an
:43:48. > :43:50.unwelcome surprise. She thinks she has seen the man who got her
:43:51. > :43:55.pregnant. She's not sure if she wants to speak to him. I think she's
:43:56. > :44:09.feeling a bit shy. She's not sure what his reaction to her will be.
:44:10. > :44:18.Let's follow her and see what happens. Is he there. Are you
:44:19. > :44:26.feeling shy? Do you want to see him? That's him? Is that him in the white
:44:27. > :44:30.shirt? OK. Reluctantly her sheepish looking ex-boyfriend is dragged out
:44:31. > :44:34.of the house by one of the missionaries. She was very young
:44:35. > :44:41.wasn't she when you got her pregnant? Because you are 23, you
:44:42. > :44:55.are a lot older than her? TRANSLATION: He wasn't aware she was
:44:56. > :45:01.so young. You didn't know she was 16? John said he did his duty by
:45:02. > :45:11.paying for her hospital bills but the relationship is over. He's now
:45:12. > :45:14.one of the lads again. Selena is offered support by some of her
:45:15. > :45:19.neighbours, but she tells me later it is all a show for the cameras,
:45:20. > :45:28.and some of these girls actually usually torment her over her
:45:29. > :45:34.condition. She says her friends treat her so badly, when they see
:45:35. > :45:39.her they tell her she stinks, she's like rubbish to them, mostly she
:45:40. > :45:49.says at home. Back at her home, watching all of this unfold is
:45:50. > :45:54.Selena's mother and she's livid. TRANSLATION: She was so healthy. She
:45:55. > :45:58.would dress so smartly and whenever she walked in the village she was
:45:59. > :46:03.the envy of everyone. Now when I see her in this condition, and the man
:46:04. > :46:07.who did this to her is stood right there. Not even asking for my
:46:08. > :46:21.forgiveness, I feel so sad and angry. It is the first day of the
:46:22. > :46:26.free fistula repair camp at the hospital. An anxious Selena is first
:46:27. > :46:31.on the list. Here it is important to find creative ways of getting the
:46:32. > :46:43.job done. Like using a surgical glove as a town the question.
:46:44. > :46:46.Tourniquet. This is complex surgeries but they have found the
:46:47. > :46:51.problem here quickly. It is just at the edge, it is about a 4cm hole,
:46:52. > :46:55.you can actually see right into the bladder there. Can you see that.
:46:56. > :46:59.Shane Duffy and his team from Chelsea and Westminster hospital in
:47:00. > :47:04.London are training Ugandan doctors here so they can eventually take
:47:05. > :47:10.over. It is important to have it tension-free. The surgery has been a
:47:11. > :47:14.success, her mother hopes she will go back to school and get her life
:47:15. > :47:20.back. Selena is looking forward to hanging out with her friends again
:47:21. > :47:27.and one day having another baby. But there are 200,000 other women living
:47:28. > :47:31.in Uganda with this condition, with only a fraction lucky enough to get
:47:32. > :47:34.treatment. These women are hoping they will be seen by the UK team
:47:35. > :47:42.before they have to leave. But there are too many to treat everyone. Many
:47:43. > :47:50.more will be left waiting, facing a lifetime of rejection, shame and
:47:51. > :47:56.humiliation. That's all for tonight. The decision of the Globe Theatre to
:47:57. > :47:59.perform Hamlet in North Korea hasn't been greeted with universal approval
:48:00. > :48:03.by human rights campaigners today. Not that the vast majority of the
:48:04. > :48:10.population will be able to see it, let alone understand western actors
:48:11. > :48:19.performing in English. We have an actor here to show us how Korean
:48:20. > :49:22.Hamlet should be done. With act two, seen two. (She speaks in Korean) #6
:49:23. > :49:23.Our weather has taken a turner dryer. A touch of frost, patchy fog