:00:09. > :00:14.precious little about it. Three years on from the start of the
:00:15. > :00:20.Syrian Civil War, the greatest humanitarian crisis on earth just
:00:21. > :00:26.gets worse. Listen to the former Foreign Secretary. What I think this
:00:27. > :00:31.has become is the defining collective failure of this century
:00:32. > :00:37.so far. Also tonight, we talk to the former England defender, Sol
:00:38. > :00:43.Campbell about whether today's footballers are vain, overpaid
:00:44. > :00:49.pre-Madonnas. We return to Baghdad to see if there is a chance of peace
:00:50. > :00:53.breaking out. This is where Al-Qaeda flooded into the city in 2006 and
:00:54. > :00:58.declared it a liberated zone. That sparked a huge fight. They may look
:00:59. > :01:15.noble and grazeful, but is the life of a horse really so precious. Three
:01:16. > :01:19.years ago this week a group of citizens in Syria decided they
:01:20. > :01:23.weren't prepared to put up with a dictator any longer. They had seen
:01:24. > :01:29.other regimes topple to the Arab Spring, but the Syrians weren't so
:01:30. > :01:34.fortunate. President Assad unleashed his army and soon there was full
:01:35. > :01:38.scale Civil War. The dead numbing to many thousands and displaced into
:01:39. > :01:46.millions, and diplomatic pressure for Russia to abandon its nasty
:01:47. > :01:49.little ally has failed. David Miliband now runs the International
:01:50. > :01:53.Rescue committee, we have been talking to him about the lessons to
:01:54. > :02:01.be learned. How did this become this? Syria is
:02:02. > :02:04.the crisis of our generation. Over 100,000 dead, half the country
:02:05. > :02:11.forced from its home, and hardest to believe, a crisis now entering its
:02:12. > :02:16.fourth year. Did you ever think that we would be in something this bad
:02:17. > :02:19.for this long? No. If I had been here with you three years ago and
:02:20. > :02:25.have said nine million people displaced from their homes, three
:02:26. > :02:31.million in neighbouring countries, 130,000 dead, 1500 kids assassinated
:02:32. > :02:42.by snipers and victims of Government prisons, you would have said there
:02:43. > :02:47.will be an overwhelming outcry and it wouldn't be acceptable in the
:02:48. > :02:52.21st century. I think it is terrible we have reached this stage,
:02:53. > :02:56.seemingly a war without limit and end and law. Every day, as we are
:02:57. > :03:00.doing this interview international humanitarian law is being broken and
:03:01. > :03:04.the progress of certainly the last 60 years since the Second World War,
:03:05. > :03:08.in establishing norms of war that protect civilians is being rolled
:03:09. > :03:14.back. Why do you think it has been, in your words "acceptable"? I think
:03:15. > :03:17.what has happened is the political divisions between the great powers
:03:18. > :03:22.and the regional powers, between Russia and the US and Iran and Saudi
:03:23. > :03:25.Arabia, those political divisions have infected the humanitarian
:03:26. > :03:30.dialogue. I have to be very, very careful about the extent to which I
:03:31. > :03:34.can speculate about the wisdom or otherwise of military engagment.
:03:35. > :03:40.What I think this has become is the defining collective failure of this
:03:41. > :03:47.century so far. We all remember Rwanda over the 1990s, we remember
:03:48. > :03:52.Bosnia, the cities of Syria, the Aleppos, the Homs, will go down
:03:53. > :03:56.against the Sarajevos in a terrible litany. One of the greatest blocks
:03:57. > :03:59.to intervention has been Russia, in the form of a leader who has not
:04:00. > :04:04.relinquished power for nearly 15 years, indeed has been exerting it
:04:05. > :04:10.in the Ukraine as we speak. Looking back, did they have too strong a
:04:11. > :04:15.hand? I think they made a bet that has proved to be correct, which is
:04:16. > :04:22.that President Assad had more going for him than many thought. They bet
:04:23. > :04:32.that he wouldn't fall in the way that President Mubarak did and they
:04:33. > :04:36.proved to be right. Has the USA others -- and others been too supine
:04:37. > :04:39.on this? The attack and narrative in America is that President Obama has
:04:40. > :04:45.been too weak. I see something different. There isn't a military
:04:46. > :04:49.response in the Crimea, and if you mean by "strong" he should have had
:04:50. > :04:52.a military response in crime ma, no-one would seriously say that.
:04:53. > :05:00.What I see is something different, not a strong-week speck -- a
:05:01. > :05:03.strong-weak spectrum, but a fragmented international community.
:05:04. > :05:08.Future generations might not take this idea of fragmentation, they
:05:09. > :05:12.will say why was Russia so readily indulged for so long? I don't think
:05:13. > :05:18.it is indulgence is the right thing, there is a lot of fury, the question
:05:19. > :05:21.is, the point about the fragmentation is it is only economic
:05:22. > :05:24.unity that actually is the root to pressure. The thing about dealing
:05:25. > :05:29.with and working with the Russian Government is that they want
:05:30. > :05:33.respect, but they respect strength. If it is all about the economy
:05:34. > :05:38.stupid, and hitting Russia where it hurts, how are we doing on sanctions
:05:39. > :05:41.here? He offers a stark warning to this Government? There is a danger
:05:42. > :05:47.that people want a quick fix. And there isn't a quick fix. This is a
:05:48. > :05:50.long game. One of my reflections on being in the states, looking back
:05:51. > :05:55.here, and thinking about American politics is that the premium on
:05:56. > :05:58.short-term economics can drive out the long-term political strategy.
:05:59. > :06:01.Where as actually what you need is a long-term economic strategy to back
:06:02. > :06:06.the long-term political strategy. When it was made clear that David
:06:07. > :06:12.Cameron said he wouldn't hit Russians, for example, in the City
:06:13. > :06:15.of London? Well it is not my place to say, when I talked about
:06:16. > :06:19.fragmentation of the international response, if every country is just
:06:20. > :06:23.thinking how do we defend our own patch, not how are we going to unify
:06:24. > :06:27.so that we're presenting a common front, then obviously it is much
:06:28. > :06:30.more difficult to be taken seriously. Should military
:06:31. > :06:34.intervention happen in Syria, as it did in Iraq under the Government in
:06:35. > :06:40.which he served? He's loathe to say. But when I ask him why he thinks it
:06:41. > :06:45.never happened, the answer is stark. It is obvious there is a post-Iraq,
:06:46. > :06:48.post-Afghanistan, and post-financial crisis situation in western
:06:49. > :06:53.countries, where the limits of military power have been widely
:06:54. > :06:58.demonstrated. The economic constraints, the economic austerity
:06:59. > :07:03.is very clear and, look, the phrase that is used in America is "nation
:07:04. > :07:06.building at home". Limits of military power means Iraq and
:07:07. > :07:13.Afghanistan didn't work? I see all of this now through the lens of the
:07:14. > :07:16.work we do. We work in 3,800 Afghan villages and we have just done a
:07:17. > :07:20.survey of our staff and the people who they work with. What they tell
:07:21. > :07:24.me is they are worried that the gains they have made won't be
:07:25. > :07:28.preserved. I'm being told to wrap, but on the day the leader of the
:07:29. > :07:32.opposition, yes his brother, is making a speech on Europe, ruling
:07:33. > :07:35.out a referendum in 2017 it seems rude to go without asking what he
:07:36. > :07:39.thinks of it? I think it is sensible. Because Britain has a
:07:40. > :07:43.recovery to build and the central task for the next Government is
:07:44. > :07:48.obviously to build that recovery and the idea that half way through the
:07:49. > :07:54.parliament there would be a referendum, I don't think that many
:07:55. > :07:58.people 2017, when you have a German and French election, I think what he
:07:59. > :08:04.has done is sensible and statesman-like and really right.
:08:05. > :08:09.Let's talk about Syria now, Baroness Amos is in charge of humanitarian
:08:10. > :08:13.affairs at the UN. She has taken an active role in the European
:08:14. > :08:17.humanitarian response to the crisis. The world looks to you for hope, I
:08:18. > :08:23.suppose, why can't you deliver it? For a whole variety of reasons. It
:08:24. > :08:28.is something that I think about every day. Because I think the world
:08:29. > :08:32.looks to the U and expects the United Nations to solve problems.
:08:33. > :08:36.But we also forget that the United Nations is made up of all the
:08:37. > :08:41.different countries of the world, so all the differences that those
:08:42. > :08:45.countries have, they bring to the United Nations and the table. We see
:08:46. > :08:49.it being played out in Syria. If you are trying to formulate a
:08:50. > :08:55.humanitarian response though, it must be incredibly frustrating to
:08:56. > :08:58.find that the wheels of diplomacy grind so incredibly slowly. It was
:08:59. > :09:03.three years this has been going on? I think what's really frustrating
:09:04. > :09:07.for us on the humanitarian side is of course we know that the wheels of
:09:08. > :09:12.diplomacy, trying to find a political solution can be slow. But
:09:13. > :09:18.on the humanitarian side where you have people dying every day, we have
:09:19. > :09:21.seen those terrible pictures coming out of Yamouk and other parts of
:09:22. > :09:27.Syria. You have got millions of people displaced, it is almost as if
:09:28. > :09:33.people have become numb by the numbers. Over nine million people
:09:34. > :09:38.inside Syria needing help. It is the size of a small country in Europe.
:09:39. > :09:43.So the frustrating thing is that should not be political, that should
:09:44. > :09:47.not be politicised, helping people, getting aid in, there are rules that
:09:48. > :09:54.we have which should be applied when there is a conflict. You know,
:09:55. > :09:58.ordinary children, women, men, shouldn't be used in a conflict like
:09:59. > :10:02.this to make sure that it is sustained and it goes on and that's
:10:03. > :10:08.the thing we find most frustrating that we can't get to the people who
:10:09. > :10:12.need help. That it's over a year that over two million people have
:10:13. > :10:21.not had medical aid, food, things like that. I think it is an absolute
:10:22. > :10:25.scandal. Are both sides using this humanitarian aid question to
:10:26. > :10:29.political ends, or can you apportion blame? Well yes, the different sides
:10:30. > :10:33.are, but I do think you have to look at the numbers. When I say that you
:10:34. > :10:38.have got two-and-a-half million people in what we call
:10:39. > :10:45.hard-to-reach-place, we may have got to those places once. But there are
:10:46. > :10:47.about 240,000 people in places we called "besieged", for example we
:10:48. > :10:51.have not been able to get in with aid and they have not been able to
:10:52. > :10:54.get out. The majority of those people are in areas controlled by
:10:55. > :10:59.Government. So it is very hard to say that there is an equivalence
:11:00. > :11:04.when you look at the numbers, but all of the different sides, the
:11:05. > :11:10.different opposition groups as well as the Government use this tactic,
:11:11. > :11:19.sieging communities as a kind of weapon of war. How long could it go
:11:20. > :11:23.on? Well, it has gone on for three years, we're no nearer finding a
:11:24. > :11:28.political solution, the numbers have grown and grown and grown. I first
:11:29. > :11:36.went to Syria two years ago. I went to Homs, I saw the destruction in an
:11:37. > :11:39.area called Baba Ama, it has been repeated many times since. Then we
:11:40. > :11:46.were talking about a million people needing help. Now it is over nine
:11:47. > :11:51.million. I suppose we can watch collectively the destruction of an
:11:52. > :11:55.entire country over many more years, unless we get more courage from the
:11:56. > :11:59.international community and unless we find a way of finding a political
:12:00. > :12:06.solution. But both sides are just callous in this matter? Oh, if you
:12:07. > :12:16.look at the human rights abuses that you are seeing, spread across the
:12:17. > :12:21.country, absolutely. Now in a fit of large guess, Vince Cable
:12:22. > :12:25.conenvironmneted today that the national minimum wage will rise
:12:26. > :12:30.above the rate of inflation. It adds up to 19p extra an hour. Mind you
:12:31. > :12:33.people have been getting poorer for the last several years as the wage
:12:34. > :12:37.went up by less than the rate of inflation. Valuable ammunition for
:12:38. > :12:41.the Labour Party in its cost of living campaign. Hard to recall now
:12:42. > :12:45.that when it was proposed the minimum wage was a controversial
:12:46. > :12:48.idea. Tomorrow the Resolution Foundation releases a report
:12:49. > :12:59.authored by the minimum wage's architect, which examines whether it
:13:00. > :13:05.is still fit for purpose. People, production and pay, cogs in
:13:06. > :13:09.our economic machine. 15 years ago a new component, a minimum wage was
:13:10. > :13:21.plumbed in, now it is not running as smoothly as it should. From October
:13:22. > :13:24.it is ?6. 50 an hour, a 40-hour week means ?13,000 a year, after tax and
:13:25. > :13:31.national insurance that is take home of ?231 a week. Katie gets up at
:13:32. > :13:38.four. 45am to go to work cleaning Government offices. After rent,
:13:39. > :13:47.bills and transport, just living, ?6. 54 is not enough to make ends
:13:48. > :13:52.meet. It is impossible, we spend the money in three or four days, you
:13:53. > :13:56.work hard and you can have a good life, always you need to think about
:13:57. > :14:00.what you are going to do with every penny. And the rate was designed to
:14:01. > :14:06.be the bare minimum, not the benchmark for millions. 1. 2 million
:14:07. > :14:11.are on the actual wage. Another 1. 4 within 50p. But there are five
:14:12. > :14:18.million on low pay under the international definition around ?7.
:14:19. > :14:23.70. Look at this, that spike shows more and more of our wages clustered
:14:24. > :14:26.around the minimum level. When the minimum wage was introduced, it was
:14:27. > :14:29.intended very much as a red line that would never be crossed. What
:14:30. > :14:33.has happened is the ripple effects have been smaller than everyone
:14:34. > :14:38.thought and employers have treated it as going rate, and they take it
:14:39. > :14:42.as a guide to what they should be paying. Why should business fix
:14:43. > :14:47.that? Pay any more than they have to? The inventor of the minimum wage
:14:48. > :14:52.wants firms to cough up a higher rate for London. And a new
:14:53. > :14:58.Government target to pull more workers out of low pay. Most
:14:59. > :15:02.controversially the architect of the minimum wage wants the authorities
:15:03. > :15:09.to point the finger at employers who could afford to pay more but choose
:15:10. > :15:16.not to. The idea to name and shame business into raising wages, but is
:15:17. > :15:22.that realistic or even fair. Like thousands of businesses, this food
:15:23. > :15:26.distributor doesn't just have spare cash lying around. More rules, more
:15:27. > :15:32.complication, there is very tight margins in the profit we make. It is
:15:33. > :15:36.very big competition. Obviously the more wages are going up, the margin
:15:37. > :15:43.goes lower and the customer always wants to pay less. Ministers want
:15:44. > :15:46.the minimum wage eventually to regain the value it lost in the
:15:47. > :15:50.downturn, the idea that started as temporary has survived and become a
:15:51. > :15:54.permanent part of our economy. But it hasn't removed the trap of low
:15:55. > :16:02.pay for millions. It may be broke, but it is not straight forward how
:16:03. > :16:06.to fix it. Well Sir Jamie Bain, the architect of the minimum wage when
:16:07. > :16:11.it was introduced is in the Belfast studio now. Did you expect it to
:16:12. > :16:17.last this long Sir George? I don't think I did, when it came in 1998 we
:16:18. > :16:22.made a recommendation, it was simply set up for a year, and I'm quite
:16:23. > :16:27.surprised but delighted that 15 years later it is there. Even more
:16:28. > :16:37.delighted that all political parties now accept it and indeed want it
:16:38. > :16:42.increased. Has it achieved what you hoped? It has achieved a good deal
:16:43. > :16:46.what I hoped. It has abolished extreme low pay. Usually that is
:16:47. > :16:57.defined as being half the median. Something below about ?5. 75 an
:16:58. > :17:02.hour. When it came in about a third of labour force was in this
:17:03. > :17:08.position. Today it is about 7%. So it has abolished extreme low pay but
:17:09. > :17:14.not low pay. The problem now is the people as your commentary suggested
:17:15. > :17:18.who are on the minimum wage and as the commentary suggested there is a
:17:19. > :17:24.spike there. But who are way below the two thirds median, ?7. 7.71 an
:17:25. > :17:28.hour, which is Antarth national definition of low pay. It is that
:17:29. > :17:33.group which we failed to do anything for. The medium low paid, if you
:17:34. > :17:39.like, not the extreme low paid. And indeed inequality has got worse
:17:40. > :17:43.since it came? Inequality has got worse. Anybody who is concerned
:17:44. > :17:47.about the stability of society, of course this is not just true in the
:17:48. > :17:53.UK, it is true pretty much across the western world. Those at the top
:17:54. > :17:57.of the income distribution, one always mentions bankers, of course,
:17:58. > :18:00.but there is lots of others. They have done very much better. The
:18:01. > :18:08.rewards of globalisation seem to be going to them. But penalising those
:18:09. > :18:16.at the bottom. I think it is pretty clear from evidence that societies
:18:17. > :18:20.that are more egalitarian tend to do more than those who have quite
:18:21. > :18:25.marked and in some ways these days quite obscene differences in the
:18:26. > :18:30.ratio of high pay to low pay. These consequences that you are talking
:18:31. > :18:33.about, maybe they are collateral consequences of what happened. They
:18:34. > :18:39.don't make you think maybe this minimum wage is just too much of a
:18:40. > :18:44.blunt instrument? It is too much of a blunt instrument, that's exactly
:18:45. > :18:48.the problem. I mean the metaphor I like to use is that of a garment, in
:18:49. > :18:52.fact the metaphor is quite a good one, because the tailoring trade is
:18:53. > :19:00.one of the low paid areas. And since it is a single rate and you have to
:19:01. > :19:06.set it, so that it doesn't cause mass unemployment. A hence it has to
:19:07. > :19:13.be set relatively low. If you set it say at the living wage, which some
:19:14. > :19:18.people argue, which is you know about ?7. 65 an hour, you would
:19:19. > :19:23.cause massive unemployment in areas like retail, clothing, social care
:19:24. > :19:28.for elderly people, and so on. Yet, on the other hand, there is a whole
:19:29. > :19:31.range of sectors, there is only about five sectors where this is
:19:32. > :19:37.true. There is a whole range of sectors where you could actually
:19:38. > :19:40.easily afford to pay more than the minimum wage as it is set. There is
:19:41. > :19:44.something to be said, and that is what we are saying, for having it
:19:45. > :19:48.varied. First of all, not by region, but we have a long tradition in the
:19:49. > :19:52.UK as treating London as a special case. We think there is a special
:19:53. > :19:56.case for London to have a higher national minimum. We also think
:19:57. > :20:01.there is a special case for publishing after the low-pay
:20:02. > :20:05.commission has done its research and homework a right that particular
:20:06. > :20:10.sector, other than those at the very bottom, could afford to pay. An
:20:11. > :20:19.indication of that rate. Thank you very much for joining us. The former
:20:20. > :20:25.England footballer Sol Campbell is standing by his claim of racial
:20:26. > :20:28.discrimination. He said if he hadn't been black he might have been
:20:29. > :20:33.captain of England. Far more than the three occasions in a teyear
:20:34. > :20:38.career that it did occur. Other players, including black players are
:20:39. > :20:48.saying he's talking nonsense to sell his autobuy off fee. Is he? --
:20:49. > :20:54.biography. Let's look back at some of the career highs and lows. In a
:20:55. > :21:01.sport that has cheapened hatred like no other, few players have sparked
:21:02. > :21:08.such extreme emotion as Sol Campbell. Football knows no transfer
:21:09. > :21:13.than a sensational one, but when in 2001, Campbell, then captain of
:21:14. > :21:22.Spurs, defected four miles down the road to play for Arsenal, the sport
:21:23. > :21:26.held its breath. In And with good reason, Campbell's return to his old
:21:27. > :21:31.ground yielded almost unparalleled abuse from those who had once adored
:21:32. > :21:38.him. For no other reason and deciding to change jobs, Sol
:21:39. > :21:42.Campbell had become one of the game's most controversial players.
:21:43. > :21:48.If the abuse was hurting, it didn't appear to show. Campbell was to star
:21:49. > :21:57.as his new club won repeated trophies. For the England national
:21:58. > :22:04.side he was a could loss giant, playing in six major tournamentings.
:22:05. > :22:07.He was a complex character. It was at half time in this game that he
:22:08. > :22:11.asked to be substituted before driving away from the ground while
:22:12. > :22:16.the game continued, and heading for Brussels. What was going on in his
:22:17. > :22:24.mind? In retirement his focus has turned to the racism he sees in the
:22:25. > :22:29.sport. Sol Campbell is here now. If this sport was institutionally
:22:30. > :22:33.racist you wouldn't have done as well as you have done, would you?
:22:34. > :22:41.I'm not saying that, all I'm saying is when my book is a reflection of
:22:42. > :22:58.what I have been through and how I see football. It is my side of the
:22:59. > :23:01.storyCEDYELLOW I'm not saying that, all I'm saying is when my book is a
:23:02. > :23:04.reflection of what I have been through and how I see football. It
:23:05. > :23:07.is my side of the story. It is how I see football. When you see Paul Ince
:23:08. > :23:10.and others occupying the role of captain, it doesn't seem to be true
:23:11. > :23:14.this allegation against black players? For me personally, if I
:23:15. > :23:25.look at it, if I was say white, I would have captained my country more
:23:26. > :23:30.than three times for sure. There are extracts, the ten-year thing, that
:23:31. > :23:35.was blown out. I'm saying I would have captained more times over ten
:23:36. > :23:38.years. But it is, that is my take on it. It is possible, of course, they
:23:39. > :23:44.just didn't make you captain more often because they judged you were
:23:45. > :23:52.not psychologically best-suited to that job? I disagree on that because
:23:53. > :23:58.I have captained my club at a young age at Tottenham. I have easily
:23:59. > :24:02.captained Arsenal. I captained Portsmouth to FA Cup victory. All
:24:03. > :24:09.those problems which happened later on, that was when I was 31, I'm
:24:10. > :24:13.talking about mid-20s. You are absolutely convinced of this are
:24:14. > :24:18.you? I think it is not as blatant, and not institutional, but for me it
:24:19. > :24:24.is almost like a subconscious kind of thing. If I give you examples
:24:25. > :24:29.there was a sports committee set up by the FA I was saying well the BBC
:24:30. > :24:34.actually came to me and said who is on here. I have looked on there,
:24:35. > :24:38.there is one thing which sticks out to me, there was no-one of black
:24:39. > :24:42.origin on there, that is why the BBC came to me and asked me to say
:24:43. > :24:47.something about it. Then the committee is already set, I have
:24:48. > :24:52.said something on TV, obviously it is retracted and Rio Ferdinand is on
:24:53. > :24:56.there saying it was not really completed. But for me it is almost
:24:57. > :25:00.why would you want to do that if you want to make a statement. You would
:25:01. > :25:03.actually put someone, if you want a forward-thinking kind of FA you
:25:04. > :25:07.would put something black in the beginning and put the rest of the
:25:08. > :25:11.committee on there. It is almost like backtracking, it is a very
:25:12. > :25:16.delayed reaction. Can we talk a little bit about the world of the
:25:17. > :25:22.professional football player. Jose Mourinho said the other day they
:25:23. > :25:29.were vain, overpaid celebrity-obsessed, is that a
:25:30. > :25:32.picture you recognise? I don't think they are all vain and overpaid, I
:25:33. > :25:37.think it is horses for courses. Every club has their level. There
:25:38. > :25:40.will only be certain clubs able to pay the vast sums, and those players
:25:41. > :25:45.some of them are worth it, because it is a ten-year career. But,
:25:46. > :25:51.footballers are, they work hard, they are under pressure, it is a
:25:52. > :25:59.business, it is an entertainment business. As I said every club has
:26:00. > :26:03.their level. You would advise a young man with the talent to go into
:26:04. > :26:07.the world? The beautiful thing about football is talent always comes
:26:08. > :26:11.through. You also have to deal with the sort of publish that the fans
:26:12. > :26:19.will sometimes shout at you, if, as in your case, they get the wrong
:26:20. > :26:23.idea? I don't mean the wrong idea do I, who cares what your sexual
:26:24. > :26:29.orientation is, why is that a cause for abuse? My abuse was many things,
:26:30. > :26:33.it was homophobic, it was racial, I have had everything as a black man
:26:34. > :26:39.growing up. And a young black man growing up in football. I always
:26:40. > :26:43.looked beyond that and I said to myself football is going to be the
:26:44. > :26:47.number one for me. And I will not allow those kinds of comments or
:26:48. > :26:54.that type of attitude towards me or abuse as I had as an early young boy
:26:55. > :27:00.starting out in Tottenham stopped me from living my dream.
:27:01. > :27:05.Would you give different advice to a young black man as to a youngs white
:27:06. > :27:09.man? No. As I said before talent will always take you through into
:27:10. > :27:13.football. That is the beautiful thing about football and most
:27:14. > :27:21.sports. All lent will always shine through and take you as far as you
:27:22. > :27:25.want to go. Thank you very much. As we saw earlier the west's
:27:26. > :27:31.inability or unwillingness to get involved in Syria reflects a mood in
:27:32. > :27:35.western capitals that is itself greatly influenced by other foreign
:27:36. > :27:40.adventures, most obviously is the intervention in Iraq, for by 179
:27:41. > :27:43.British servicemen and women gave their lives, along with thousands of
:27:44. > :27:46.Americans and others. It is now nearly three years since that
:27:47. > :27:49.operation finished. But if it was supposed to bring peace and
:27:50. > :27:53.prosperity, it wasn't a great success, at least 1500 people have
:27:54. > :28:02.already been killed in violence there this year. We have been in and
:28:03. > :28:09.out of troubled areas for Iraq, our correspondent has just been back to
:28:10. > :28:19.Durra, once dubbed the most dangerous place in Iraq. Let's see
:28:20. > :28:23.what has been achieved? In Baghdad these days several neighbourhoods
:28:24. > :28:29.are particularly tense, the police patrol with caution. They are
:28:30. > :28:33.enclaves where Sunnis live, in a city that not long ago lived through
:28:34. > :28:40.a nightmare of sectarian violence. And now the fear is it could happen
:28:41. > :28:46.again. We didn't get into Fallujah because they are in state of open
:28:47. > :28:49.revolt. This part of Baghdad, Durra, it is a particularly interesting
:28:50. > :28:52.place now to look at the tension between the Sunni community. This is
:28:53. > :28:58.where Al-Qaeda flooded into the outskirts of the city in 2006 and
:28:59. > :29:06.declared it a liberated zone. That sparked a huge fight. The first
:29:07. > :29:12.Newsnight film in Dura was made seven years ago. When violence was
:29:13. > :29:15.at its height. The Americans sent troops into the market to turn the
:29:16. > :29:31.situation round and they came under constant attack. It's time to rock
:29:32. > :29:34.'n' roll. To reach Dura you cross the Tigris, south of central
:29:35. > :29:44.Baghdad. These days the Americans are long gone. And the area is
:29:45. > :29:48.surrounded by police checkpoints. Since Shi'ites dominate the force
:29:49. > :29:52.that means many Sunnis feel besieged. The atmosphere of
:29:53. > :30:02.normality that took years to achieve is now threatened. Dura is famous
:30:03. > :30:08.for its sprawling markets, you can buy everything, from river carp to
:30:09. > :30:13.spices, dresses or even televisions. The great metric here for the
:30:14. > :30:17.Americans of their success always was how many shops were opening. In
:30:18. > :30:21.the darkest moment of what was happening in 2006 it went down to a
:30:22. > :30:27.couple of dozen. Then they got it up to a few hundred, then a year ago
:30:28. > :30:31.there was said to be 20,000 stall holders this market. It really is
:30:32. > :30:34.one of the biggest in Baghdad. But now, as a result of what has
:30:35. > :30:37.happened in the last few months, some of them have started getting
:30:38. > :30:44.into financial trouble again and some of the stalls have closed. It
:30:45. > :30:50.was here on Christmas Day that a series of bombs killed 26 people and
:30:51. > :30:58.shattered the peace. Were the bombs aimed at local Christians or the
:30:59. > :31:08.Sunnis who are Dura's majority, or simply that nobody knew. They
:31:09. > :31:12.traumatised this community. Is TRANSLATION: There were wounded and
:31:13. > :31:17.injured people, I don't remember how many wounded and lots of martyrs.
:31:18. > :31:25.There were dead shopkeepers, there was happen. Hasim and his son,
:31:26. > :31:31.Gasham and his mother passing by, God have mercy on them. I cam across
:31:32. > :31:36.bodies from my area, ten of them. We really hope it will get better, the
:31:37. > :31:41.situation generally in Baghdad is now getting worse, because these
:31:42. > :31:51.incidents, carried out by gangs in Anbar province and others are felt
:31:52. > :31:59.by Baghdad. We're able to drop in on old friends, people we met making
:32:00. > :32:05.our three previous Dura films. This is an architect Tariq. I would not
:32:06. > :32:12.go to a very congested area with people. Because I don't know when
:32:13. > :32:20.the bombing will start. You can pay $100 to somebody to plant one of
:32:21. > :32:25.these bombs. He would be pleased to spend it on drinks or other things,
:32:26. > :32:31.they don't care. They are Iraqi citizens or Iraqi people and they
:32:32. > :32:44.have no value. If he lives or dies. They lost their value. We don't have
:32:45. > :32:48.the sense of citizenship as you have in the UK and Europe. Dura today is
:32:49. > :32:53.a more prosperous place than when the Americans were here. They
:32:54. > :33:01.started the turn around, and the Iraqi Government consolidated it. So
:33:02. > :33:07.why are things going wrong now. Measures that brought peace have
:33:08. > :33:13.been reversed. Tell him soon the SOI will be paid by the national police
:33:14. > :33:21.and not the US at all. On previous visits we saw how the Americans
:33:22. > :33:26.formed a Sunni militia, the awakening forces, hundreds signed up
:33:27. > :33:31.for it, many former insurgents. They put walls in to separate Dura from
:33:32. > :33:38.neighboing Shi'ite communities. They got on top of Al-Qaeda but never
:33:39. > :33:43.fully killed it off. Is Al-Qaeda finished here or could they come
:33:44. > :33:58.back? Come back, no, no, no. No turning back, no. Finished 100%? No,
:33:59. > :34:01.maybe 90% he said. For the Sheikh, leading a Sunni militia, paid by the
:34:02. > :34:08.Americans, it was bound to be dangerous work. What happened to
:34:09. > :34:12.Sheikh Ali is a couple of years after we spoke to him he was
:34:13. > :34:19.murdered as he left the mosque here where he was Iman. By people from
:34:20. > :34:24.Al-Qaeda. And the Awakening Forces were gradually ground down. And on
:34:25. > :34:27.the one side they were attacked by Al-Qaeda extremists within their own
:34:28. > :34:31.Sunni community t on the other hand the Government turned its back on
:34:32. > :34:35.them, paid off most of them and let them go. Putting in their place
:34:36. > :34:42.uniformed police forces from outside the area to try to ensure security
:34:43. > :34:46.instead. But that link with the community had been broken. Today the
:34:47. > :34:52.walls remain around mosques, police stations and in a couple of other
:34:53. > :34:57.places. Elsewhere they are gone. And critically Iraq's Shi'ite-dominated
:34:58. > :35:02.Government want theed Sunni approximately ligsia to wither. Once
:35:03. > :35:10.several hundred in Dura, it is now a few dozen. We called in on the
:35:11. > :35:17.commander, when we met him in 2 OK 00 -- in 2008, he predicted the
:35:18. > :35:24.forces would be squeezed and the police would suffer and now says I
:35:25. > :35:27.told you so. TRANSLATION: We were hoping they could become police in
:35:28. > :35:31.their neighbourhoods, that would have been best, they could have
:35:32. > :35:36.controlled the areas and no incidents could have occurred. These
:35:37. > :35:46.days Iraqis are gearing up for election, the Prime Minister's pitch
:35:47. > :35:54.for relax rests on security. Major General Catum admits there are
:35:55. > :36:05.problems in provinces like Anbar, he insists insurgency does not return
:36:06. > :36:08.to Baghdad. TRANSLATION: No, the information we have is that people
:36:09. > :36:12.have started to look towards the elections and absolutely won't
:36:13. > :36:17.accept such acts. The state has begun to strengthen and people also
:36:18. > :36:27.have more self-confidence after experiencing explosions and harm
:36:28. > :36:31.from Al-Qaeda and criminals. But today combat has broken out in
:36:32. > :36:36.western Iraqi cities like Fallujah. Groups linked to Al-Qaeda battle the
:36:37. > :36:40.army there. In Baghdad Sunni opposition is underground, but
:36:41. > :36:50.recent bombings have stoked public fear. It is felt in Dura, in places
:36:51. > :37:00.like the central kindergarten school. We filmed Leyla, McMahon
:37:01. > :37:04.Leyla, as the kids call her, back to times when pupils had to talk past
:37:05. > :37:08.bodies to get to school. Things have got better, but now she worries not
:37:09. > :37:17.only will elections do nothing to help her community, but they will
:37:18. > :37:19.trigger more violence. TRANSLATION: Security is the most
:37:20. > :37:23.important thing for people, in the period of security we did have, you
:37:24. > :37:26.saw for yourself that development took place, people felt safe and
:37:27. > :37:37.went out in the street, they went to work. Now many are leaving their
:37:38. > :37:40.homes in dangerous a a -- areas, in Fallujah they have left, people are
:37:41. > :37:44.afraid in our neighbourhood, they don't know what will happen. As the
:37:45. > :37:51.day's trading end, Dura's famous market empties. To be guarded by the
:37:52. > :38:00.only member of the local militia we saw in days here. The deserted
:38:01. > :38:05.market remind us what things used to be like in darker times Knowing the
:38:06. > :38:12.potential for violence of these people here, the way it is policed
:38:13. > :38:17.and the strong sense of kinship between the people in Dura and the
:38:18. > :38:22.west, which is in open revolt. They are lucky not to have more trouble
:38:23. > :38:28.here already. Already Baghdad is facing a new wave of bombings and
:38:29. > :38:33.assassinations. As April's elections approach, the city is braced for the
:38:34. > :38:39.train of sectarian and political violence to gather pace. Animal
:38:40. > :38:45.rights activists have had steam coming out of their ears all day,
:38:46. > :38:49.after a comment by Ruby Walsh about the death of a horse at Cheltenham.
:38:50. > :38:55.The Daily Mail reported him saying you can replace a horse but not a
:38:56. > :39:04.human being. They claim it shows callousness. Famously there are more
:39:05. > :39:08.horses' ars th horses. Maybe Ruby Walsh is one of them. Can there be
:39:09. > :39:14.equivalence between a human and animal. With us to discuss is the
:39:15. > :39:21.editor of horse and hound, and a problem horse trainer. ? That is
:39:22. > :39:26.very badly written, you are trainer of problem horses? Yes. Do you
:39:27. > :39:31.understand why there is all this kerfuffle about what Ruby Walsh
:39:32. > :39:36.said? I can understand, and I would like to see the whole interview and
:39:37. > :39:39.speak to him about what was actually said. I know from my experience
:39:40. > :39:43.jockies have to have a relationship with a horse in order to get that
:39:44. > :39:49.last little per cent that takes them across the line first. So you know
:39:50. > :39:54.AP McCoy, I read a piece in the Times last Sunday cried when
:39:55. > :40:02.Synchronised got killed at Aintree. They do have a huge connection with
:40:03. > :40:05.their horses. Are you surprised by the Kerr roughly? I think he was
:40:06. > :40:10.responding that whenever it is Aintree or Cheltenham, these animal
:40:11. > :40:15.rights activists and types of organisations come out waiting for
:40:16. > :40:23.any event, any ill-advised comment, any horse fatality that they can go
:40:24. > :40:26.from that, responding to that for racing. He will have a huge
:40:27. > :40:30.relationship with the horses he rides, we don't just get another one
:40:31. > :40:33.out of the drawer, that is not what he meant. There is clearly a
:40:34. > :40:38.difference between a horse and human being? Absolutely. Horses are
:40:39. > :40:41.wonderfully intelligent and emotional teachers. They do have
:40:42. > :40:46.emotions, they recognise patterns and learn to do incredibly clever
:40:47. > :40:51.things. I don't think they have a sense of their mortality like a
:40:52. > :40:56.human being. They are not as intelligent as us but wonderful
:40:57. > :41:05.creatures. In shorthand people talk about you as a "horse whisperer" do
:41:06. > :41:08.horses have their own mentality? They are much greater than people
:41:09. > :41:13.think they are. In my work I tap into the fact that they do
:41:14. > :41:17.understand our emotions and... They understand our emotions? Yeah they
:41:18. > :41:23.do, I think they are constantly scanning us to see if we are friend
:41:24. > :41:27.or foe, and they are really good at seeing what our intention is from
:41:28. > :41:33.our heart. It sounds whacky, I'm not. You sound a bit whacky to me!
:41:34. > :41:39.The thing with it is if you go into work with a horse with the wrong
:41:40. > :41:52.intention, they know you are not absolutely there 1% 00% there to
:41:53. > :41:56.help them. I have had -- I have to think about my approach to them in
:41:57. > :42:01.certain circumstances and make sure it's picked up on. If I look like
:42:02. > :42:04.any other trainer or appear to approach in way that any other
:42:05. > :42:08.trainer who has given them grief in the past, it won't work. I have to
:42:09. > :42:12.be really sensitive to them and they open up and are sensitive to me.
:42:13. > :42:22.Clearly we regard horses differently to the way we regard the vast
:42:23. > :42:25.majority of animals. Yes, the Englishman particularly always had a
:42:26. > :42:30.wonderful relationship with the horse. We have farmed with them,
:42:31. > :42:34.fought with them, had fun with them and idolised them. We invest crazy
:42:35. > :42:39.amounts of money. We are the only magazine in Europe, I think, we are
:42:40. > :42:46.the only country that can sustain a weekly horse magazine. So we do
:42:47. > :42:49.regard them differently to other animals, but they are not quite pets
:42:50. > :42:53.or livestock, they are somewhere inbetween. They are to some people
:42:54. > :43:00.pets. That is why they are special, when Jonathan Swift is looking for a
:43:01. > :43:05.dignified, thoughtful, wise animal, he thinks of the horse. It is
:43:06. > :43:10.interesting this, isn't it. I see them, they have a job to do, and we
:43:11. > :43:14.have a job to do. My thing is meeting in the middle. They have
:43:15. > :43:18.their part of the job to do and I have my part and together, we are
:43:19. > :43:22.the jockeys, together they win the race. The better the horse does the
:43:23. > :43:27.more the jockey gets out of the horse, the better it is for his
:43:28. > :43:35.career. It is a collaboration. Given your sympathy, what do you
:43:36. > :43:39.make of an accident of the kind that killed this horse, and two today
:43:40. > :43:42.were killed? When I drive along the road to go and visit a horse
:43:43. > :43:48.somewhere in the country there might be a fatality on the road. Somebody
:43:49. > :43:55.driving to go and do their job. In part it is par for the course.
:43:56. > :44:00.People get killed and on the way to work and stuff happens. We have to
:44:01. > :44:03.get out there and do it. A horse doesn't have to get out there and
:44:04. > :44:09.race? Horses get a good deal, I work eight or nine hours a day to pay my
:44:10. > :44:16.bills. Horses work an hour-and-a-half to pay its way. The
:44:17. > :44:20.horses in Cheltenham have elected to do it, horses that don't like
:44:21. > :44:24.chasing or jumping don't get there. They are to some degree
:44:25. > :44:28.self-selecting, you can't make a horse do anything. Some horses like
:44:29. > :44:33.to do it and excel. What do you think when you get a tragedy like
:44:34. > :44:47.this? It is awful and sad and horrible. I accept it is a risk and
:44:48. > :44:57.not a cruel sport, just skiing down -- going down that straight. Thank
:44:58. > :45:01.you. Some of the front pages, the Mirror has a photograph from a
:45:02. > :45:07.Chinese satellite with what may be wreckage from the missing Malaysian
:45:08. > :45:12.plane. The Times alleges that the particular type of aircraft
:45:13. > :45:15.involved, this particular model of the 777 had been said to have some
:45:16. > :45:28.cracks reported earlier. That's all from us tonight, if you
:45:29. > :45:33.are desperate for some more escapism before you go to bed, you might want
:45:34. > :45:38.to take a look at some of the winners of the Gaming BAFTAs, the
:45:39. > :45:42.strategy award went to Nigel Farage's favourite game that puts
:45:43. > :45:44.you in the shoes of an immigration inspector, deciding who to let
:45:45. > :46:42.through. Good night. A cold night out there, fog around.
:46:43. > :46:45.It could be an issue by morning time across England and Wales,
:46:46. > :46:47.particularly low-lying areas, watch out for