:00:00. > :00:35.The diplomatic talk gets tough as Ukraine appeals to the UN, Russia is
:00:36. > :00:38.told to call off the referendum in Crimea. This man was sentenced to
:00:39. > :00:43.three years in prison, spending eight mind bars, indeterminate
:00:44. > :00:52.sentences were David Blunkett's big idea. Ten years on he tells us how
:00:53. > :01:02.it went so long. As the search for the Malaysian plane disappeared. We
:01:03. > :01:09.talk to a pilot who knows the fear of the crash. A man who thinks that
:01:10. > :01:12.ADHD doesn't exist, a mother who is not impressed. Perhaps he could
:01:13. > :01:19.raise a child with the condition, it is easy to sit on the outside and
:01:20. > :01:24.judge. Hello good evening. Russia has
:01:25. > :01:29.confirmed it has begun military exercises involving more than 8,000
:01:30. > :01:33.troops close to the Ukraine border. The omission will do nothing to calm
:01:34. > :01:38.tensions ahead of the Crimea referendum on whether to join Russia
:01:39. > :01:43.at the weekend. Today William Hague called on Russia to abandon the
:01:44. > :01:47.referendum, and said that Britain would freeze travel on Russians and
:01:48. > :01:53.assets. We're going across now to Crimea and
:01:54. > :02:02.our diplomatic editor. Tell us the sense you are getting on the ground
:02:03. > :02:06.of how worried people are. You get a strong sense this vote is going to
:02:07. > :02:11.happen on Sunday and the result is a foregone conclusion. Among some
:02:12. > :02:14.Ukrainians here, and the minority here, there is a feeling that the
:02:15. > :02:19.Kiev Government has almost given up, despite the pleas today of the
:02:20. > :02:22.acting Prime Minister in the UN in New York that it's not too late to
:02:23. > :02:27.talk, but something can still be done. Despite the fact that European
:02:28. > :02:31.leaders are increasingly explicitly saying sanctions will come in on
:02:32. > :02:37.Monday against Russia if this vote goes ahead. What you find here is
:02:38. > :02:41.people looking to the next stage, a Ukrainian man on the train down said
:02:42. > :02:46.to me, if they intervene somewhere else he will go and fight them. And
:02:47. > :02:49.a commander of the Russian self-defence groups I was talking to
:02:50. > :02:55.here earlier today said much the same thing. He predicts that could
:02:56. > :02:59.get very violent if there are indeed incursions in the east of the
:03:00. > :03:05.Ukraine. And briefly, we talked about troops, what's happening there
:03:06. > :03:08.in the east? Well, there are more Russian military exercises,
:03:09. > :03:12.something like 10,000 troops on Ukraine's eastern border. That has
:03:13. > :03:20.created tensions, also violent clashes tonight in the eastern city
:03:21. > :03:24.of Donetsk, and people have died. Could this be the spark that
:03:25. > :03:27.triggers further western invention. Western leaders are gambling no it
:03:28. > :03:31.is not, that the mood is still there in Moscow to talk and try to contain
:03:32. > :03:37.the damage of what has been done in Crimea. It has to be said with those
:03:38. > :03:41.troops in jumping off positions and violence on the streets, we have
:03:42. > :03:45.entered an unpredictable and tense phase in the crisis. As the troops
:03:46. > :03:52.amass and the threat of invasion hangs in the air, what is it like to
:03:53. > :03:57.live on the new eastern front? The town of Milove sits right in the
:03:58. > :04:02.middle, Ukraine on run side, Russia on the other side of the street. We
:04:03. > :10:29.speak to Olga, whose living room looks out on another country.
:10:30. > :10:36.The voice of Olga in that report in Milove on the Ukraine-Russia border.
:10:37. > :10:41.It was the brainchild of the Blair Government, a custodial sentence
:10:42. > :10:45.labelled "indeterminate", the idea was to ensure criminals stayed
:10:46. > :10:49.behind bars until they were certain not to reoffend. A fine theory, in
:10:50. > :10:54.practice it meant some people were sent to prison for relatively minor
:10:55. > :10:59.offences and never released. The policy has now been abolished, as we
:11:00. > :11:04.have discovered for Newsnight, the backlog is so great that some 5,500
:11:05. > :11:10.people are still languishing in prison with no release date. Every
:11:11. > :11:14.few months Wendy makes it journey from her home in Ellesmere Port near
:11:15. > :11:22.Liverpool, to see her son Richard. Who is in prison in Lancashire. When
:11:23. > :11:26.he was 18 Richard was given a 17-month minimum sentence for
:11:27. > :11:35.assault and attempted robbery. Eight years later he's still in prison. He
:11:36. > :11:38.has lost so many years of his life. It's silly, it is wrong he's in
:11:39. > :11:46.there and forgotten about, basically. Richard is serving what
:11:47. > :11:49.is known as an indeterminate sentence for public protection, or
:11:50. > :11:55.an IPP, which means throughout his time in prison he's never been given
:11:56. > :11:59.a release date. In order to get released IPP prisoners must prove to
:12:00. > :12:02.a parole board that they are no longer a danger to the public. If
:12:03. > :12:07.they are unsuccessful they could wait two years before they get
:12:08. > :12:10.another hearing. In Richard's case he hasn't always been perfect. Three
:12:11. > :12:15.years ago he failed a drugsest it, but his family and lawyers argue
:12:16. > :12:25.that in eight years he's never been violent. So why is he still in this
:12:26. > :12:27.prison. David Blunkett introduced IPPs ten years ago when he was Home
:12:28. > :12:32.Secretary. They were meant to be applied to serious, violent and
:12:33. > :12:37.sexual offences. People are being let out of prison when everybody
:12:38. > :12:43.concerns knows that this is going to happen again. He had in mind people
:12:44. > :12:50.like Roy Whiting, who murdered eight years old Sarah Payne, he had been
:12:51. > :12:55.in prison before for a serious sexual crime. The Government
:12:56. > :13:01.estimated that IPPs would be given to 900 offenders, but it was applied
:13:02. > :13:08.far more widely. By 2012 there were 6,000 IPP prisoners. I would stand
:13:09. > :13:13.in that window whenever I was out on the wing and just watch freedom.
:13:14. > :13:18.Shaun Lloyd was released from prison three weeks ago. He spent some of
:13:19. > :13:23.his sentence at Cardiff Prison, just a few hundred yards from where he
:13:24. > :13:28.grew up. At the age of 18 he was given a tarrif of two years and nine
:13:29. > :13:35.months after committing two street robberies. He ended up serving more
:13:36. > :13:41.than eight years. Do you you deserved to go to prison? Yeah. I
:13:42. > :13:47.think I deserved to go to prison obviously but not for the length of
:13:48. > :13:52.time that I have done because it is just messed me up, like. Is that all
:13:53. > :13:57.the stuff from your cell? Yeah, everything. Like all IPP prisoners,
:13:58. > :14:01.Shaun was required to take offender behaviour courses to prove to the
:14:02. > :14:06.Parole Board that he was no longer a risk. The problem is, they are in
:14:07. > :14:11.short supply. Prisoners can wait months to get on them. As an IPP
:14:12. > :14:17.prisoner, with no release date, seven years over tarrif, my head was
:14:18. > :14:24.battered, my head was gone. I was suicidal. Donna comes to this
:14:25. > :14:28.graveyard in Surrey every week, so that she can feel close to her
:14:29. > :14:32.brother, Shaun, who committed suicide after three years in prison.
:14:33. > :14:36.He had serious mental health problems and was a recovering drug
:14:37. > :14:40.addict. He had been given an IPP sentence of two years and five
:14:41. > :14:45.months for forcing someone to take money out of a cash machine. Donna
:14:46. > :14:57.was the last person to speak to him alive. He rang me in the morning and
:14:58. > :15:05.he just said that you know I love you all and that look after my mum
:15:06. > :15:10.and I just can't take no more Donna. I can't, I don't know what's
:15:11. > :15:18.happening with my life. I just can't take no more. And that was it, he
:15:19. > :15:22.just said I love you and goodbye. Shaun had been told he needed to do
:15:23. > :15:26.a drug rehabilitation course and transferred to another prison to do
:15:27. > :15:34.it. But the course wasn't available. It was this, Donna says, that tipped
:15:35. > :15:42.him over the edge. For people like Shaun that are very vulnerable not
:15:43. > :15:48.having that deadline of saying, OK I know Shaun done bad things, I know
:15:49. > :15:52.people in prison do bad things, but if he had a date when he could have
:15:53. > :16:01.been coming out, I think he would have still lived with a little bit
:16:02. > :16:04.of hope. The IPP sentence was abolished by the then Justice
:16:05. > :16:08.Secretary, Keneth Clarke, two years ago. He called it a stain on the
:16:09. > :16:15.criminal justice system. But it was not retrospective. There remains
:16:16. > :16:18.within the system 5,500 IPP prisoners, nearly two thirds are
:16:19. > :16:24.over tarrif. At the current release rate it will take nine years to
:16:25. > :16:29.clear the backlog of over-tarrif prisoners. We told the former Home
:16:30. > :16:33.Secretary, David Blunkett, about Wendy's son Richard and his eight
:16:34. > :16:37.years in prison. I would say that this is an injustice, I would say
:16:38. > :16:43.that the original intention had nothing to do with circumstances
:16:44. > :16:48.where people would be held way beyond the normal tarrif in a
:16:49. > :16:54.situation wherein some instances they have not been able to take the
:16:55. > :16:58.necessary course and demonstrate the ion necessary, the change in their
:16:59. > :17:03.behaviour. In terms of the families that are watching, what would you
:17:04. > :17:09.say to them about your role in this? Well I would say that I implemented
:17:10. > :17:17.what I believed was necessary to safeguard the public. But you get it
:17:18. > :17:20.wrong? I regret very much that we were not clearer in terms of the
:17:21. > :17:24.criteria laid down, and tougher in saying what the judges should and
:17:25. > :17:28.shouldn't do. And we were not effective enough in putting in the
:17:29. > :17:33.necessary resources to ensure that the rehabilitation courses were ail
:17:34. > :17:37.available. So you got it wrong? We certainly got the implementation
:17:38. > :17:42.wrong, but the intention, in my view, was correct. Wendy has just
:17:43. > :17:46.finished a two-hour visit with her son Richard. They talked about his
:17:47. > :17:52.next parole hearing, which is in two weeks time. He's anxious, just wants
:17:53. > :17:56.it over and done with to find out what is happening either way.
:17:57. > :18:03.Doesn't want to build his hopes up too high unless he gets another
:18:04. > :18:07.knockback. For someone who only got an 18-month sentence, he has done a
:18:08. > :18:11.heck of a long time. If Richard is moved to an open prison, he's likely
:18:12. > :18:20.to stay there for a year to 18 months, which means he will have
:18:21. > :18:29.spent ten years inside. I'm joined now by Crispen Blunt who worked with
:18:30. > :18:35.Keneth Clarke to abolish these sentenced. What do you think when
:18:36. > :18:41.you hear these stories? I know we did precisely the right thing. These
:18:42. > :18:47.sentences were both unjust and stupid. The effect was, as we heard
:18:48. > :18:52.from David Blunkett, they were not administered properly, so the
:18:53. > :18:56.system, there were 6,500 of these prisoners in prison when I became
:18:57. > :19:00.Prisons Minister, with P,000 beyond tarrif. The Parole Board were
:19:01. > :19:04.releasing one in 20 of those who applied for release. The system was
:19:05. > :19:08.just filling up. There was a stage in the process where we would end up
:19:09. > :19:12.with 25,000 of these people in the prison system if something hadn't
:19:13. > :19:17.been done. It began to be addressed in 200le 8, we managed to get it
:19:18. > :19:22.abolished in the first piece of legislation in 2012. When you hear
:19:23. > :19:26.how big the backlog is, and it would take nine years at the current rate
:19:27. > :19:37.to clear this, what do you think the Government should do. It will
:19:38. > :19:41.accelerated and a very defensive parole board shouted at by John
:19:42. > :19:45.Reid, and they were releasing too many people, their reaction was to
:19:46. > :19:48.be defensive and not release many people, and not make sensible
:19:49. > :19:53.judgments about when people should be released. So you had a low
:19:54. > :19:57.release rate. All of these things get dealt with when people have more
:19:58. > :20:00.programmes and get themselves to place where the Parole Board can
:20:01. > :20:04.have more confidence about being released. I think under Keneth
:20:05. > :20:07.Clarke and I the Parole Board would have had more confidence that they
:20:08. > :20:10.will be supported by ministers in take sensible decision, I believe
:20:11. > :20:13.that still to be the case. We had statement from the Government
:20:14. > :20:19.tonight saying the release of prisoners serving indeterminate
:20:20. > :20:24.sentences is entirely a matter of the Parole Board, and we have no
:20:25. > :20:29.intention of retrospectively withdrawing IPP sentences. Is that
:20:30. > :20:34.the right response? The normal, when you change sentences you do not
:20:35. > :20:37.normally make it retrospective. Sentencing regimes exist at the time
:20:38. > :20:40.you are accept tenseited. There are people under particular release
:20:41. > :20:44.programmes because that was the law when they were sentenced, and that
:20:45. > :20:50.is the general principle. You say that is general, but could it be
:20:51. > :20:53.applied retrospective? It could have done, but there wouldn't be
:20:54. > :20:57.collective agreement to do it. How I wanted to address that was making
:20:58. > :21:00.absolutely crystal clear to the national offender management service
:21:01. > :21:05.that every day someone spent in prison, beyond their tarrif, when
:21:06. > :21:09.they hadn't completed the appropriate programmes, was then a
:21:10. > :21:14.self-inflicted injury. It meant we were keeping them in prison at the
:21:15. > :21:18.tax-payers' expense longer than they needed to be, without putting them
:21:19. > :21:21.in the best place to make the best presentation to the Parole Board. We
:21:22. > :21:30.have seen what it has done to some families, completely destroyed them,
:21:31. > :21:36.what is your message to Chris Grayling, given the numbers on
:21:37. > :21:40.outstanding indeterminate sentencing. The figures have gone
:21:41. > :21:44.down by 1,000 since I left in 2012. There has continued to be progress
:21:45. > :21:48.here, so gradually, and because now the tap has been turned off, because
:21:49. > :21:53.the sentences are no longer being imposed. That allows the system to
:21:54. > :21:56.focus more resources in terms of their sentence planning to make sure
:21:57. > :21:58.they complete their programmes whilst they are doing their
:21:59. > :22:01.punishment tarrif, and therefore they can have a better chance of
:22:02. > :22:04.being released at the first application to the Parole Board.
:22:05. > :22:08.That can't be sped up, there are some people, you know, you heard
:22:09. > :22:13.from Shaun, who was in there for eight years on a sentence that was
:22:14. > :22:17.fewer than three to beginning? I entirely agree with you. There must
:22:18. > :22:21.be plenty more like that. You must be thinking we can seriously
:22:22. > :22:27.accelerate this? Certainly the point I was putting rather strongly to the
:22:28. > :22:30.senior officials of the national offender management services is they
:22:31. > :22:33.had to focus resources in this area. I was having reports made regularly
:22:34. > :22:36.to me about the progress we were making and making sure that
:22:37. > :22:39.resources were being properly focussed. If people weren't getting
:22:40. > :22:43.to the Parole Board having at least had the chance to complete their
:22:44. > :22:49.programmes and address their offending behaviour, then it was
:22:50. > :22:53.both unjust and administratively stupid. Thank you very much for
:22:54. > :22:57.coming in. In the confusion of an unprecedented event, like a missing
:22:58. > :23:02.airliner, there is always claim and counter claim. Tonight an earlier
:23:03. > :23:07.suggestion has resurfaced that the Malaysian airlines plane was sending
:23:08. > :23:10.signals to a satellite for four hours after the aircraft went
:23:11. > :23:16.missing, an indication it was still flying. One pilot who knows what
:23:17. > :23:22.mid-flight emergency feels like is Chelsea Sullenberger, the hero of
:23:23. > :23:27.the landing that came to be known as "The Miracle on the Hudson". I spoke
:23:28. > :23:31.to him before we went on air and talked to him about how rare it is
:23:32. > :23:36.to have a plane simply vanish? It is very rare, it has happened over the
:23:37. > :23:41.60-year history of jet travel. In almost every case, with very few
:23:42. > :23:45.exceptions wreckage or the aeroplane itself is found. In almost every
:23:46. > :23:50.case the recorders are eventually found or recovered. Could a plane
:23:51. > :23:55.just disappear from radar, could plane have flown undetected for
:23:56. > :24:00.another four hours? Ground-based air traffic control radar only extends
:24:01. > :24:05.200 miles beyond the shoreline. Over open water where there is no radar
:24:06. > :24:09.coverage it could fly for an extended period of time. Is it your
:24:10. > :24:13.sense it might have happened in this case? It is very early. We have
:24:14. > :24:19.hardly any information or real hard evidence or data. But there is some
:24:20. > :24:24.indication that there are some primary or basic radar returns that
:24:25. > :24:28.might be correlated with this flight that indicate it headed to the south
:24:29. > :24:33.west, and perhaps continued in that direction. They are talking about
:24:34. > :24:37.the Indian Ocean now as a search ground, is it possible that the
:24:38. > :24:43.plane landed somewhere else undetected? Again, absent data we
:24:44. > :24:47.would simply be speculating. But that is theoretically possible. What
:24:48. > :24:52.is the first response of a pilot, would you contact somebody, would
:24:53. > :24:56.you try and connect with the ground? In spite of what many think, that
:24:57. > :25:00.actually is not the first thing, or even the second thing or sometimes
:25:01. > :25:05.even the third thing that a pilot would normally do. We have a very
:25:06. > :25:10.clear set of priorities, in fact we call them simple simply I have aate,
:25:11. > :25:15.navigate, communicate, in that order. That makes sense when you
:25:16. > :25:19.realise that somebody from outside the aeroplane is calling for rescue
:25:20. > :25:23.forces of where you are if you are uncertain of it and they couldn't
:25:24. > :25:27.provide much more assistance to you, it is up to the pilots in the
:25:28. > :25:35.cockpit to solve the problems they are facing. During the miracle on
:25:36. > :25:40.the Hudson, aviate came first, and navigate, how long before you
:25:41. > :25:45.communicated your position to those on the ground? It was probably 35
:25:46. > :25:52.seconds after the bird strike and Jins were lost. A lot happened in
:25:53. > :25:57.those 30 seconds. The entire time for the thrust loss to the time we
:25:58. > :26:01.went down was 230 seconds. The work rate was so high that my first
:26:02. > :26:06.officer and I didn't have time to have a conversation about what had
:26:07. > :26:12.just happened. Tell me of the way this investigation is being handled
:26:13. > :26:16.so far, by the Malaysian authorities? It is complicated in a
:26:17. > :26:20.number of ways. The aircraft was manufactured in the United States.
:26:21. > :26:25.The engines were manufactured in Great Britain, I think. The airline
:26:26. > :26:29.is based in Malaysia, air traffic controllers were involved from
:26:30. > :26:35.Malaysia and Vietnam. It is an international effort. I'm not
:26:36. > :26:39.terribly surprised that there is some confusion or disagreement about
:26:40. > :26:44.facts when there are so few facts. We know that Americans are now
:26:45. > :26:55.involved in the investigation warships we are told are involved
:26:56. > :26:59.and sent to the straits. If you were leading the the in -- the
:27:00. > :27:04.investigation, what would you do? One of the most promising avenues is
:27:05. > :27:08.to look at the primary radar communications recorded by the
:27:09. > :27:12.Malaysian side and see if there was in fact a turn to the south west and
:27:13. > :27:16.see what direction it went and begin look anything that direction. Which
:27:17. > :27:19.I believe some of the search pattern indicates the Malaysians have
:27:20. > :27:27.already done. Thank you very much indeed. The 40p tax rate used to be
:27:28. > :27:31.the rate that Conservative Governments of the past thought the
:27:32. > :27:35.rich should pay, increasingly those on more moderate salaries are also
:27:36. > :27:39.being dragged into the 40p bracket. Now there is growing unease amongst
:27:40. > :27:42.today's Conservatives that it is a failure to adjust the rate is
:27:43. > :27:46.penalising many who are far from wealthy. In a moment we will debate
:27:47. > :27:52.the political argument behind the figures. This is our policy editor
:27:53. > :27:57.first. The Chancellor's reforming budget cuts the basic rate of tax by
:27:58. > :28:04.2p, but the highest earners see their top rate slashed by 20p and
:28:05. > :28:15.the opposition erupts in fury. Shame slam shame shame Back in the day the
:28:16. > :28:23.40p tax rate even made it on to Newsnight. Nigel Lawson had just cut
:28:24. > :28:25.it from 60p. The 40p band is no longer the highest rate of income
:28:26. > :28:31.tax reserved for the very richest. It is now causing trouble for a new
:28:32. > :28:38.reason. Lots of people now earn more than about ?40,000 a year, the
:28:39. > :28:42.threshold for the 40p rate. In 1990, under 7% of tax-payers earned more
:28:43. > :28:52.than the 40p threshold. That was about 1. 7 million people. But that
:28:53. > :28:57.has risen to 16% of tax-payers. That is 4. 7 million. Many of whom you
:28:58. > :29:03.wouldn't regard as big earners. Back in 1990 it would have taken a 50%
:29:04. > :29:11.pay rise to get the average teachers into the 40p tax bracket. Nowadays a
:29:12. > :29:15.lot of them are there. The average London secondary school teacher
:29:16. > :29:20.earns ?40,000. The police are there, male officers ranked Sergeant or
:29:21. > :29:23.below, they average more than ?40,000 a year. Nurses are much
:29:24. > :29:30.worse paid than policemen or teachers, but even so, 15% of nurses
:29:31. > :29:35.are higher rate tax-payers. How did that happen? Paul Johnson, director
:29:36. > :29:39.of the Institute for Fiscal Studies explains. This has been happening
:29:40. > :29:43.for a long time, 30 years at least. Earnings have risen a bit faster
:29:44. > :29:48.than prices on the whole. But the point at which you start to pay
:29:49. > :29:53.higher rate tax has only gone up in prices, it drags more people in.
:29:54. > :29:57.That happened since 2010. Since 2010 the coalition has drawn more people
:29:58. > :30:01.into the 40p band deliberately as a way of making it a bit cheaper to
:30:02. > :30:05.increase the personal allowance and increase the point at which people
:30:06. > :30:10.start paying income tax at all. To get the proportion of the work force
:30:11. > :30:15.in the 40p bracket, back down to 1990 levels, the threshold would
:30:16. > :30:22.need to rise from just over ?40,000 to around ?67,000. A big jump like
:30:23. > :30:26.that just isn't easily affordable. But some Conservative MPs think that
:30:27. > :30:33.the threshold needs to start moving in that direction. If we want to
:30:34. > :30:37.look after middle Britain. , you know a certainly think an area where
:30:38. > :30:42.a lot of people have been saying the Chancellor should look hard at is
:30:43. > :30:46.this concept of fiscal drag, where more middle-class earners are forced
:30:47. > :30:49.to pay 40% rate. Has the Conservative Party lost the ability
:30:50. > :30:53.and right to campaign as a tax cutting party? We have cut taxes. We
:30:54. > :30:58.have cut taxes for 26 million people. We have cut taxes to the
:30:59. > :31:02.extend, at the lowest threshold, so there are two-and-a-half million
:31:03. > :31:07.more people who aren't saying tax. So we have been tax cutting, but the
:31:08. > :31:13.emphasis has been focussed much more at the lower end not the higher end.
:31:14. > :31:16.It is hard to offer much assistance to higher rate tax-payers.
:31:17. > :31:22.Politically they are a hard sell. They are well off. Economically they
:31:23. > :31:26.are big payers, they contribute two thirds of all income tax receipts,
:31:27. > :31:30.being generous to them is very expensive.
:31:31. > :31:34.George Osborne, the current Chancellor has helped out higher
:31:35. > :31:39.rate payers with the rise in the personal tax allowance to nearly
:31:40. > :31:44.?10,000. But that policy is associated with the Liberal
:31:45. > :31:49.Democrats. No wonder some Conservatives now long for a little
:31:50. > :31:57.bit of Lawsonian tax cutting that they can campaign on. Chris Cook
:31:58. > :32:01.discussed that, and Lord Lamont a former Chancellor of the Exchequer,
:32:02. > :32:05.and Lord Oakeshott a Lib Dem peer. Do you have any sympathy with those
:32:06. > :32:10.who don't consider themselves to be amongst the wealthy and yet have
:32:11. > :32:15.been dragged into the 40p bracket? Obviously life is hard for many
:32:16. > :32:18.people, including people on middle incomes, but it is even harder for
:32:19. > :32:25.the people at the bottom of the scale, particularly people
:32:26. > :32:27.struggling on ?8,000 or ?10,000 a year, they are the people the
:32:28. > :32:32.Liberal Democrats have been determined to help and concentrate
:32:33. > :32:39.on the help on in jacking up the tax threshold so fast. But the people in
:32:40. > :32:43.the middle are not wealthy, they are secondary school teachers living in
:32:44. > :32:47.London, facing the cost of living, seeing 52p in their pound going to
:32:48. > :32:51.the Treasury? They may not be stinking rich, but by the standards
:32:52. > :32:54.of the country as a whole, they are middling rich. Remember as it just
:32:55. > :32:58.pointed out, we are talking about the top sixth of people. There are
:32:59. > :33:03.30 million tax-payers. Less than five million of them are paying this
:33:04. > :33:09.rate. To an awful lot of people certainly outside London and the
:33:10. > :33:14.south-east, earning ?800, ?900 a week is pretty well off. We mustn't
:33:15. > :33:18.be Londoncentric here. It still sounds quite a lot of money and
:33:19. > :33:23.quite a nice bracket to be in? It may be quite a lot of money, but
:33:24. > :33:26.emphasis on the "quite". We are talking about balance, of course
:33:27. > :33:31.there is an argument for giving relief at the bottom, but will that
:33:32. > :33:35.be at the price of really squeezing the centre, people who are teachers,
:33:36. > :33:39.nurses, tube drivers, or Staff Sergeant in the army, people just
:33:40. > :33:44.earning ?40,000, it is not a lot of money. Those people have been
:33:45. > :33:51.dragged into this 40% ban. This has gone up 36% since 2010, it is
:33:52. > :33:56.thought by 2015 there will be six million people in this band. When
:33:57. > :34:02.Nigel Lawson first introduced it, it was one in twenty, today it is one
:34:03. > :34:05.in six. The Government has actually stopped those people being worse
:34:06. > :34:10.off, actually because of the affect of the raising of the tax threshold
:34:11. > :34:15.at the bottom. Since 2010, and Monday is desperately tight, we have
:34:16. > :34:20.been through an economic crisis with real wages squeezed, these people on
:34:21. > :34:24.the 40p rate are slightly better off than they would have been, they gain
:34:25. > :34:27.more by getting a tax threshold than any other. The Government has
:34:28. > :34:31.protected that, and I don't think they are the priority. Lord
:34:32. > :34:35.Oakeshott is right, but it is only the half story, they are better off
:34:36. > :34:42.than they would have otherwise been, that is true. But they are dragged
:34:43. > :34:51.into the 42% because they have to pay a diminished rate of national
:34:52. > :34:55.insurance as well. That is moderate incomes that is on. If it goes on as
:34:56. > :35:01.a policy it will be dead. We are raising more and more tax from the
:35:02. > :35:06.higher, from fewer and fewer people. The people paying 40% who he is
:35:07. > :35:11.saying are a small group are giving as much tax revenue as all the basic
:35:12. > :35:17.rate people put together. Now that can't be right. I think you are
:35:18. > :35:21.going to hit a buffer if you go on squeezing and squeezing and
:35:22. > :35:24.squeezing. In a few years time when things are easier it could be looked
:35:25. > :35:29.at again. We are still recovering from a desperate economic crash, and
:35:30. > :35:32.real wages and earnings are well below than at the peak. Average
:35:33. > :35:37.earnings for most people in work are going up at 1% a year. Public
:35:38. > :35:43.services are being under enormous pressure. It is not the priority to
:35:44. > :35:49.give a tax cut to the relatively well off. Where do you put the
:35:50. > :35:53.limit, we have heard ?67,000, that would cost a lot of money. Where
:35:54. > :35:59.would you put it now? I think there ought to be rise in the threshold of
:36:00. > :36:07.40% maybe to ?44,000 or something like that as a first step. But long
:36:08. > :36:10.run you can't go on and on not increasing this commensurate with
:36:11. > :36:14.earnings, because you will end up dragging more people. You will end
:36:15. > :36:17.with a situation where the 40% becomes a basic rate. That is
:36:18. > :36:21.complete nonsense. Do you agree with the question that Chris put, that
:36:22. > :36:25.the Conservatives have, at present, lost the ability to call themselves
:36:26. > :36:31.the party of tax cutting? No, I don't agree with that. Obviously
:36:32. > :36:36.everyone has benefitted, all but a few people, from the personal
:36:37. > :36:40.allowance, but that is very limited. If we go on and on with the policy
:36:41. > :36:44.we will lose the ability to call ourselves the tax cutting party.
:36:45. > :36:49.Because more and more people will be paying a rate of tax which when it
:36:50. > :36:53.was introduced by Nigel Lawson was intended to be the tax rate of the
:36:54. > :36:59.very rich. The Liberal Democrats will only concentrate on the bottom
:37:00. > :37:06.percentile. We still think that people who are struggling with major
:37:07. > :37:10.problems, and people in work trying to have the benefit of going to
:37:11. > :37:15.work. That should be concentrated down there. Let me just say, we have
:37:16. > :37:19.enormous pressure on public services and spending. I'm proud tonight, I
:37:20. > :37:23.have just been to see my first grandchild at St Thomas's Hospital,
:37:24. > :37:27.I'm delighted the National Health Service is there and I'm happy to
:37:28. > :37:32.pay the tax to keep it going. Would you advise in the suggest measure on
:37:33. > :37:36.this one to David Cameron? They have to do something at some point that
:37:37. > :37:41.everybody is being squeezed, but the people in the middle more than
:37:42. > :37:48.anyone else. Not so long ago the OACD warned that Britain was relying
:37:49. > :37:54.on too narrow a base for incomes tax. We don't think we are all in it
:37:55. > :37:59.together if you cut the tax rate for the rich now.
:38:00. > :38:03.If you have a child or you have been diagnosed with Attention Deficit
:38:04. > :38:11.Disorder, chances are you think it exists. But a Dr Richard Sal says it
:38:12. > :38:13.doesn't. He thinks it is the symptoms of other conditions, and
:38:14. > :38:19.thousands of children are treated with drugs they don't need as a
:38:20. > :38:23.result. His theory has kicked off a controversy.
:38:24. > :38:29.Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks. Avoids or doesn't want to
:38:30. > :38:37.do things that... . It is the most common condition in the UK, these
:38:38. > :38:43.were helped to point out what ADHD is. 11-year-old Kye was identified
:38:44. > :38:49.with the disorder when I was six. Like most people with ADHD, he has a
:38:50. > :38:54.secondary condition, in his case mild autism. You can handle it and
:38:55. > :39:01.have pretty severe cases where you can have talking difficulties, you
:39:02. > :39:09.can get angry, a bit too easily. Just lash out at people. You don't
:39:10. > :39:13.think before you do anything. I go through phases of running away from
:39:14. > :39:17.home. The number of children like Kye, recognised as suffering from
:39:18. > :39:20.ADHD has more than doubled in a decade. But rates in this country
:39:21. > :39:26.are still a fraction of what they are in the US where 8. 8% of
:39:27. > :39:32.children are now diagnosed with the condition. Some British doctors
:39:33. > :39:36.believe many ADHD cases are often missed. There is now a broad
:39:37. > :39:40.scientific consensus that a complex mix of genetic and environmental
:39:41. > :39:45.factors are responsible for the condition. Everyone can get bored
:39:46. > :39:49.and fail to pay attention, and lots of people do daft things. But this
:39:50. > :39:53.is part of human variation, it is when it is extreme, and, most
:39:54. > :39:56.importantly, when it is impairing. The fact that it is messing up their
:39:57. > :40:03.lives and they can't help it. That is when you have an ADHD diagnosis?
:40:04. > :40:07.It is, it must be ADHD in its own right, not because of some other
:40:08. > :40:15.undetected condition. A new book creating a lot of controversy... The
:40:16. > :40:22.title of the book "ADHD Does Not Exist". One doctor disagrees with
:40:23. > :40:25.the main consensus, he argues those symptoms can be caused by something
:40:26. > :40:30.as simple as poor eyesight or diet. That is raising a lot of eyebrows?
:40:31. > :40:35.It is just an excuse according to one American scientist. Ky, he's
:40:36. > :40:41.mother takes issue with it, and she says her son has worked hard to
:40:42. > :40:46.control the condition and crucial have controlled his aggressive and
:40:47. > :40:51.disruptive behaviour. Let him raise a child with the condition, it is
:40:52. > :41:01.easy to sit outside and judge.? You feel it is real? Yes, nobody thinks
:41:02. > :41:06.otherwise. If you need the support, there isn't enough support out there
:41:07. > :41:21.for them. I'm not excusing bad behaviour in any way. Kye is getting
:41:22. > :41:26.the help needs, and more children need this kind of support. Sceptics
:41:27. > :41:31.think too many are misdiagnosed with a disorder that simply doesn't
:41:32. > :41:34.exist. We had hoped that Dr Richard Sol would be joining us tonight, but
:41:35. > :41:40.we have had problems getting him into the right studio in Chicago.
:41:41. > :41:43.We're joined by Andrea, who founded the national Attention Deficit
:41:44. > :41:47.Disorder information and support service. We are grateful you have
:41:48. > :41:52.come in. Is it conceivable that it has been misdiagnosed so widely that
:41:53. > :41:57.it has been symptoms that have been mistaken for ADHD when it was
:41:58. > :42:01.something else? You know this is a condition that has been so widely
:42:02. > :42:07.researched. 10,000 research papers over many years. Research conducted
:42:08. > :42:12.by the top academic researchers in the world. It is the most researches
:42:13. > :42:15.condition it is. You say that as if that is the end of the research, if
:42:16. > :42:20.somebody is producing a new understanding that suggests maybe
:42:21. > :42:23.that children have been drugged needlessly. Put on medicines
:42:24. > :42:31.needlessly, are you not considered in considering that? I have read his
:42:32. > :42:35.book and it seems to me this is an 80-year-old man living in the 1950s,
:42:36. > :42:38.the information in his book is outdated. There is a chapter in his
:42:39. > :42:44.book where he talk about a child who displays all the symptoms of ADHD,
:42:45. > :42:50.very impulsive, hyperactive, distractible, runs around. And he
:42:51. > :42:53.says this boy has something I called neurochemical distractibility
:42:54. > :42:58.impulse disorder. That is exactly the same thing. He streets with
:42:59. > :43:03.Ritalin. He also talks about finding children who have had an eyesight
:43:04. > :43:07.problem or diet street problem and working out by solving the
:43:08. > :43:12.fundamental, the real, as he would say, issue, you get rid of the
:43:13. > :43:17.symptoms that had been understood as ADHD? He's talking about something
:43:18. > :43:22.different. When you make a diagnosis of ADHD, the first thing is rule out
:43:23. > :43:25.all of those things. You also have to understand that America and the
:43:26. > :43:33.UK are very different in the way they approach and diagnose and treat
:43:34. > :43:37.ADHD. We are very ruling out any Tory condition that might mimic
:43:38. > :43:41.ADHD. That is not the case in the US. Will this have ramifications
:43:42. > :43:47.here? What the book has done, it is a very good publicity stunt, he has
:43:48. > :43:51.called his book ADHD Does Not Exist, that is not what he says in the
:43:52. > :43:55.book. The title is to mislead you, he says in the book he has given the
:43:56. > :43:59.provocative title to get the publicity and sell his book. I wish
:44:00. > :44:02.you were here to give us the response for that, thank you very
:44:03. > :45:08.much for coming in. Before we go I will take you through the papers:
:45:09. > :45:21.Now, on what instrument did Bach compose his cello suites. You might
:45:22. > :45:28.think the cello, but research by a conductor suggests that the genius
:45:29. > :45:32.wrote it on a cello, but an extricked instrument. He will bring
:45:33. > :45:37.the instrument alive at the Queen Elizabeth Hall playing with the
:45:38. > :45:39.orchestra in the age of enlightenment. Here we have the
:45:40. > :47:11.third cello suite. Good night. No doubt you have plans for the
:47:12. > :47:15.weekend, looking OK for most of us. We are not there yet, a foggy start
:47:16. > :47:16.to the day across England and