:00:09. > :00:13.They are hailing it as the most important cosmic discovery in a
:00:14. > :00:17.generation. It doesn't the big bang, that happened years ago, but it
:00:18. > :00:23.shows what happened to make our universe. Gravity waves were
:00:24. > :00:28.predicted by Einstein, it has taken a century to find them. Now that we
:00:29. > :00:34.have, what have we proved? We will ask two happy scientists, and from
:00:35. > :00:44.Boston, we talk to the man from the team who made the discovery. Flight
:00:45. > :00:49.MH370, was it hijacked? Where is it? How can we have not the faintest
:00:50. > :00:53.idea a week after the event? Emily has hints about the budget. They are
:00:54. > :00:59.looking for help for all those hard working families. Will ?2,000
:01:00. > :01:03.tax-free childcare do it? It has come to this, Noel Edmonds thinks
:01:04. > :01:19.the license fee is dead and the BBC should effectively be privatised.
:01:20. > :01:23.He's here to lay out his manifesto. As regular viewers will be more than
:01:24. > :01:27.aware Newsnight isn't ashamed to reguerring Tate or more commonly
:01:28. > :01:32.revisit ancient news, if it is news it is news to us. Tonight we surpass
:01:33. > :01:37.ourselves with analysis of events at the very dawn of time, before even
:01:38. > :01:40.the An teaks road show had been invented. American scientists
:01:41. > :01:44.believed they discovered something that happened a fraction of a second
:01:45. > :01:48.after the big bang, some several billion years ago. In the world of
:01:49. > :01:55.cosmology, it is a very big deal indeed. Chris Lintot of the Sky At
:01:56. > :02:02.Night fame reports for Newsnight. The universe began 13. Eight billion
:02:03. > :02:10.years ago in a big bang, and scientists' imaginations can take us
:02:11. > :02:15.almost to that point. Until now proving it has been impossible. In
:02:16. > :02:20.an unspectacular setting remarkable news n a day that these scientists
:02:21. > :02:24.thought would never come. A chance to test out theories in extreme
:02:25. > :02:27.conditions. I'm at the Royal Observatory Greenwich, the
:02:28. > :02:31.historical home of British astronomy and place renowned for time keeping.
:02:32. > :02:35.Even the astronomers here would be impressed if I told them we had
:02:36. > :02:40.evidence something happened a ten million, billion, billionth of a
:02:41. > :02:47.second after the big bang. Today's discovery comes from a radio
:02:48. > :02:51.telescope at the South Pole, known as BicepII. It is great place to do
:02:52. > :02:56.astronomy, it is desert dry, which allows it to see the oldest light in
:02:57. > :03:02.the universe, the cosmic microwave background. This is this cosmic
:03:03. > :03:06.microwave background. A picture of the universe as it was 400,000 years
:03:07. > :03:09.after the big bang. You can see it is lumpy, there are dark bits cooler
:03:10. > :03:13.than the average, and bright bits hotter than the average. And all of
:03:14. > :03:17.that structure goes on to form the galaxies that we see around us
:03:18. > :03:22.today. To begin with the universe was filled with a soup of particle,
:03:23. > :03:27.mainly electron, and light scattered from one electron to another, but as
:03:28. > :03:35.the universe expanded the electrons lost energy, and they are suddenly
:03:36. > :03:40.captured by atomic nuclei. They scatter across the universe reaching
:03:41. > :03:45.us on earth 13. 8 billion years later. That light contains the
:03:46. > :03:50.distinctive imprint of a violent time in the universe's history, just
:03:51. > :03:53.after the big bang, it seems the universe expanded almost
:03:54. > :03:58.instantaneously, in a cosmic inflation. Space itself would ha
:03:59. > :04:02.rippled, sending gravitational waves spreading out across the universe.
:04:03. > :04:07.It is the affect of those waves that Bicep has seen today. Inflation is
:04:08. > :04:14.an idea which has really solves a lot of problems. But finding
:04:15. > :04:18.evidence for it is hard. And this is really the first, not direct
:04:19. > :04:22.evidence, but it is indirect evidence which looks on the face of
:04:23. > :04:27.it quite powerful. Inflation changed our universe forever, it created the
:04:28. > :04:30.seeds from which the galaxies we see around us formed, it guaranteed that
:04:31. > :04:37.the part of the universe we can see is only a tiny, and some would say,
:04:38. > :04:41.insignificant part of all there is. What What we have seen today might
:04:42. > :04:45.well be the first signal of an event that happened a tiny fraction of a
:04:46. > :04:49.second after the big bang, but shaped the universe around us. If
:04:50. > :04:54.this result stands up, it will be a red letter day in the history of if
:04:55. > :05:00.Is sicks and win many people many Nobel Prizes in the years to come.
:05:01. > :05:17.We have the co-leader of the Bicep operation, and we have our guests in
:05:18. > :05:27.the studio. SMI First to Boston, were you surprised by what you
:05:28. > :05:31.found? We were some what surprised. So previously indications were that
:05:32. > :05:34.the signal was smaller than what we found. That was surprising, from a
:05:35. > :05:38.theoretical perspective the signal is about the size it would be
:05:39. > :05:44.expected to be. Of course it is very surprising to go on a, on what some
:05:45. > :05:48.people might have characterised as a wild goose chase and find the goose.
:05:49. > :06:01.Yes, we were very surprised. It must be amazing, you are looking evidence
:06:02. > :06:05.of something that happened 14 billion years ago, what is that
:06:06. > :06:09.like? We have been studying the microwave background for many years,
:06:10. > :06:12.we have been looking back to the 400,000 year, that has been my
:06:13. > :06:17.career. Today's discovery is special, because it is looking at an
:06:18. > :06:22.imprint at that 400,000 year epoch, which comes from the first tiny,
:06:23. > :06:26.tiny fraction of a second after the beginning. We are essentially seeing
:06:27. > :06:33.gravitational waves from that first moment of creation, written on the
:06:34. > :06:38.sky at 400,000 years. Were you following a hunch here. Did you find
:06:39. > :06:44.that there was opposition to your pursuing this line of research? It
:06:45. > :06:47.must have been phenomenally expensive? Actually our experiment
:06:48. > :06:55.is not terribly expensive by the standards of modern physics
:06:56. > :06:58.research. We are talking maybe $10-$20 million. It is a small
:06:59. > :07:03.telescope and highly targeted experiment. We built it to look
:07:04. > :07:08.specifically for this observational signature and nothing else. That
:07:09. > :07:14.allowed it to be only modestly expensive. Did you find it difficult
:07:15. > :07:20.to get backing? Well, you know, we are funded by the US National
:07:21. > :07:24.Science Foundation, they fund a number of telescopes, after the same
:07:25. > :07:28.goal as us. They differ in details but basically after the same goal.
:07:29. > :07:34.So that is the way that they have decided to go. You know funding a
:07:35. > :07:39.number of smaller experiments. The European Space Agency has right now
:07:40. > :07:42.the Plunk Space Mission, which is a very expensive mission, which is
:07:43. > :07:44.going after the same thing amongst other things. That is a more
:07:45. > :07:49.generalised experiment. We have a couple of your colleagues here in
:07:50. > :07:53.the studio in London, one is involved, you are both involved in
:07:54. > :07:57.the Plank Project. Just you, you are involved in it. Exciting day isn't
:07:58. > :08:01.it? It is an amazing day. This buzz has been building for a few days,
:08:02. > :08:05.all these rumours on the Internet, and people were discussing what
:08:06. > :08:10.could come. But I think the news that they got today exceeded
:08:11. > :08:19.certainly my expectations, the level of the significantle thats was very
:08:20. > :08:24.high. This was unexpected. The Plank had set a slightly lower limit, that
:08:25. > :08:33.is very interesting. The way the experiment actually worked and the
:08:34. > :08:51.level of the low noise they were able to achieve with the signal is
:08:52. > :08:54.an incredible achievementnt actually worked and the level of the low
:08:55. > :08:56.noise they were able to achieve with the signal is an incredible
:08:57. > :08:59.achievement. Is there anything you want to ask him to make sure he got
:09:00. > :09:02.it right? How long have you gathered this data for. I wasn't expecting
:09:03. > :09:04.that. Is it recent or is it quite a bit of data. Before people publish
:09:05. > :09:09.anything, you want to have robustness behind you. How much are
:09:10. > :09:14.you holding in reserve and how much data do you have? The data we
:09:15. > :09:18.announced today was taken between 2010-2012, the last of the data was
:09:19. > :09:25.taken more than a year ago. The reason it has taken a time to
:09:26. > :09:29.finalise the result and put it out is it was so unexpected, we needed
:09:30. > :09:34.to test everything and drill into and slice and dice the data to try
:09:35. > :09:36.to make sure we weren't making a mistake, that there wasn't
:09:37. > :09:42.contamination from the experiment or sources on the ground, or even from
:09:43. > :09:45.foreground mission on our own galaxy. We were pretty sure. We set
:09:46. > :09:48.everything out in the papers we submitted today, and people can
:09:49. > :09:53.judge for themselves. Supposing he's right, what's the significance?
:09:54. > :09:57.Let's assume he's right. I will be the last to know, and so will many
:09:58. > :10:01.other people, apart from some of our viewers, I suppose. Let's assume
:10:02. > :10:06.that it is all as it appears, this is a sense sayingal discovery, why
:10:07. > :10:12.does it matter? What we're looking at, there are two discoveries here,
:10:13. > :10:18.the first I'm talking about gravitational waves, the elusive
:10:19. > :10:25.gravitational waves. Einstein predicted them in 1916, and other
:10:26. > :10:30.things he predicted, gravitational lens, have been proved and verified.
:10:31. > :10:33.But gravitational waves was one of the elusive things we didn't have
:10:34. > :10:49.evidence to support. Just the fact we have got that is another tick in
:10:50. > :10:53.the box for that theory. This cosmic expansion has now been evidenced. We
:10:54. > :10:57.have known about the big bang for many, many years, when you think
:10:58. > :11:01.about the universe as the size of the marble, there are glitches with
:11:02. > :11:06.that, things that didn't stand up with the theory. People made
:11:07. > :11:10.suggestions in the 80s, they call up with -- came up with suggestions,
:11:11. > :11:14.they came up with cosmic expansion, so in a tiny amount of time there
:11:15. > :11:19.was massive expansion and you get the gravitational waves produced and
:11:20. > :11:22.we are looking at the remnants now. That expansion was the blueprint for
:11:23. > :11:24.the universe we live in today. So the terms and conditions at that
:11:25. > :11:28.point dictate the universe we live in today. There are some people
:11:29. > :11:34.talking about how this provides the hint to the theory of everything?
:11:35. > :11:37.That's right. Can you explain in layman's terms what that means? So
:11:38. > :11:42.this process of inflation that has been discussed here, tuly acted as
:11:43. > :11:47.the origin of all the stuff that we see in the universe today. All the
:11:48. > :11:51.galaxies, clusters of galaxies, planets, everything came from tiny
:11:52. > :11:56.ripples in space in the early times. This is a direct hint of that time
:11:57. > :12:03.and of that physics. So we have two theories, one is the Einstien's
:12:04. > :12:08.general relatively, the theory of gravity. There is another pillar of
:12:09. > :12:11.modern physics, quantum mechanics. These two theories by themselves are
:12:12. > :12:16.inconsistent. They have to be unified in a broader theory. A
:12:17. > :12:20.theory of quantum gravity. String theory is a candidate for that. If
:12:21. > :12:26.we have gravitational waves at the level they have detected today, it
:12:27. > :12:32.makes the physics really, really early and sensitive to quantum
:12:33. > :12:37.gravity. I think this could be a tremendous leap in physics, not just
:12:38. > :12:47.cosmology, if it pans out it could point to a significant breakthrough
:12:48. > :12:56.in physics. Funny for of us in the taughtry tawedry business of news.
:12:57. > :13:07.This is what it is all about. Do you hope for a Nobel Prize for this? We
:13:08. > :13:10.have been deliberatelyRCEDYELLOW This is what it is all about. Do you
:13:11. > :13:13.hope for a Nobel Prize for this? We have been deliberately not talking
:13:14. > :13:16.about that, others have mentioned it! We are still no closer to the
:13:17. > :13:19.solution of the mystery of how an airliner with 239 human beings on
:13:20. > :13:30.board could suddenly vanish. The clues are minuscule or non-existent,
:13:31. > :13:36.the mallakes -- Malaysian Government are looking
:13:37. > :13:52.inept. We report from qualm had a loam per. -- Kuala Lumpur. One of
:13:53. > :14:03.the capital's largest mosques. There is a presidential call for the
:14:04. > :14:08.passengers who boarded the flight. In all the twists and turns of this
:14:09. > :14:15.incredible story, one fact hasn't changed. 239 people are still
:14:16. > :14:20.missing, seven of those children. These grainy CCTV pictures of the
:14:21. > :14:24.pilots passing through security are another reminder how routine this
:14:25. > :14:29.trip appeared to be. The possibility that a crew member was involved in
:14:30. > :14:36.the plane's disappearance is still a major and inevitable line of
:14:37. > :14:41.inquiry. It is in this wealthy gated suburb of Kuala Lumpur that the
:14:42. > :14:45.captain, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, lives, he has a wife and three children.
:14:46. > :14:48.Security is tight here, any photographers caught inside risk
:14:49. > :14:54.having their memory cards wiped and the police called. We now know that
:14:55. > :14:57.flight MH370 was deliberately steered off course, and put through
:14:58. > :15:01.a series of complex manoeuvres, perhaps designed to avoid military
:15:02. > :15:05.radar. It appears someone with advanced flying skills must have
:15:06. > :15:08.been responsible. The key question is who was at the controls at that
:15:09. > :15:14.time, and where were they acting alone or under duress. Over the
:15:15. > :15:20.weekend attention was on the 53-year-old chief pilot. Hi
:15:21. > :15:26.everyone, this is YouTube video... Zaharie Ahmad Shah had built his own
:15:27. > :15:30.high-tech Boeing 777 simulator. The police have seized the system and
:15:31. > :15:34.rebuilt it to test the routes he was flying. Their newspapers brought up
:15:35. > :15:40.his support for Malaysia's opposition party, headed by their
:15:41. > :15:44.imprisoned leader words like "fanatic" and "obsessed" were used.
:15:45. > :15:47.Today a senior politician confirmed to Newsnight he was personal friends
:15:48. > :15:55.to the pilot, but said any attempt to bring in domestic politics was
:15:56. > :15:58.part of a crude campaign for smear. What I know of him he's not anyone
:15:59. > :16:04.who would put his passengers or plane in danger. The Daily Mail also
:16:05. > :16:07.suggested that he was a vocal political activist or social
:16:08. > :16:14.activist and went on to describe him as a political fanatic. I think
:16:15. > :16:18.that's really completely wrong. From what I know of him, you can't
:16:19. > :16:23.describe him as that. He was a member, he was a quiet member. You
:16:24. > :16:27.know he was just an ordinary member of the party. He did some social
:16:28. > :16:33.work for underprivileged kids, and that's it. Today we also learned
:16:34. > :16:39.more about the movements of flight MH370, a modern Boeing 777. It took
:16:40. > :16:43.off bound for Beijing in the early hours of March 8th. As it left the
:16:44. > :16:49.country it passed an automated message giving details of its
:16:50. > :16:53.position to a system known as ACARSs, times in the minutes after
:16:54. > :17:01.that, it is not clear when, that system was switched off. By 1. 19am,
:17:02. > :17:06.someone in the cockpit calmly spoke to staff saying "all right, good
:17:07. > :17:10.night". We heard those words crucially came from the second pilot
:17:11. > :17:15.not the captain. Two minutes after the good night message the plane's
:17:16. > :17:22.transponder was switched off, hiding its position from air traffic
:17:23. > :17:25.control. And Mr Hamid's family home this afternoon, there was no-one in,
:17:26. > :17:29.a strong padlock on the door and police circulating outside. We still
:17:30. > :17:33.don't know if he was involved in the plane's disappearance or possibly
:17:34. > :17:38.acting under duress. But today's news means once again officials are
:17:39. > :17:44.appearing to backtrack on earlier statements adding to the confusion
:17:45. > :17:48.around this crisis. By 2. 15am on March 8th military radar have picked
:17:49. > :17:55.up the plane hundreds of miles west, well off course. It then appeared to
:17:56. > :17:59.vanish. But MH370 was still sending a crude signal to a satellite high
:18:00. > :18:03.above earth, own by a British company. That tells us that six
:18:04. > :18:08.hours later, with 30 minutes of fuel left in its tank it was somewhere on
:18:09. > :18:14.one of these two vast flight corridors, stretching from the
:18:15. > :18:18.southern Indian Ocean to Kazakhstan in Asia. At a packed news
:18:19. > :18:23.conference, Malaysia's Transport Minister said he had now asked 26
:18:24. > :18:27.countries to join in the search and rescue effort, based on new data,
:18:28. > :18:32.that search started today. The fact that there are no distress signals
:18:33. > :18:40.or Rand some notes, there are no parties claiming to be responsible,
:18:41. > :18:44.there is always hope. Hope or no hope, for friends and family of the
:18:45. > :18:48.missing the waiting as soon as. At the airport where their loved ones
:18:49. > :19:00.set off ten days a the temporary shrine to those on boardpe, for
:19:01. > :19:02.friends and family of the missing the waiting as soon as. At the
:19:03. > :19:05.airport where their loved ones set off ten days a the temporary shrine
:19:06. > :19:07.to those on board. The "hard working families" phrase has been pretty
:19:08. > :19:10.much part of every speech the Chancellor has made over the past
:19:11. > :19:12.few weeks. Tonight the first signs of what this might mean in practice
:19:13. > :19:16.for Wednesday's budget. He is to unveil a package which includes
:19:17. > :19:21.tax-free childcare for children up to 12, as well as more money for
:19:22. > :19:25.nurseries and families on benefits. What have you heard? This is, we
:19:26. > :19:29.think, a pretty big childcare announcement that should help most
:19:30. > :19:35.families with children under 12. The Government is you evering to put --
:19:36. > :19:40.offering to put up to ?2,000 per child per year for tax relief, that
:19:41. > :19:44.would affect every family where each working parent earns below ?150,000.
:19:45. > :19:52.That is a pretty high threshold. The Tory side to this is a nod towards
:19:53. > :19:56.universalism, perhaps to appease those affected by child benefit. It
:19:57. > :19:59.will be for nurseries and disadvantaged children. This is
:20:00. > :20:04.something the Liberal Democrats would want to see included. They do
:20:05. > :20:17.this before every budget selectively releasing things they think will
:20:18. > :20:19.make them look good. What is new ind want to see included. They do this
:20:20. > :20:22.before every budget selectively releasing things they think will
:20:23. > :20:25.make them look good. What is new in it? It is being rolled out and a lot
:20:26. > :20:28.of it not until 2017. The overall structure we have heard before. It
:20:29. > :20:29.is much more money, it is ?2,000, more people will find themselves
:20:30. > :20:33.eligible, including those self-employed, and it moves the
:20:34. > :20:37.Tories crucially for them on to this cost of living territory and it
:20:38. > :20:41.responds to those previous cuts in child benefit. What is the
:20:42. > :20:45.anticipated response? Well, the Liberal Democrats are saying this is
:20:46. > :20:50.a perfect example of the coalition working side-by-side. They each give
:20:51. > :20:54.the other side credit. Labour has already come forward and said that
:20:55. > :20:57.this is only help after the next election, so it is too little too
:20:58. > :21:03.late. They say David Cameron has already shown has true colours by
:21:04. > :21:06.cutting support for children and families by ?15 billion since he
:21:07. > :21:10.came to office. Crucially though it will be quite controversial for stay
:21:11. > :21:16.at home mums, that rather terrible phrase, but this doesn't come into
:21:17. > :21:21.play if one side of the family, one parent works from home, doesn't go
:21:22. > :21:24.out to work or only helps lone working parents. It won't help them.
:21:25. > :21:28.The Conservatives of course would say they are covered in the married
:21:29. > :21:38.tax allowance, which comes into play in April of 2015. The good news over
:21:39. > :21:41.the confrontation about Crimea is hasn't become a military clash
:21:42. > :21:44.between east and west. That is as far as it goes. The European Union
:21:45. > :21:49.and the United States have imposed sanctions, travel bans and asset
:21:50. > :21:52.freezes on both Russians and Ukrainians sympathetic to the
:21:53. > :21:56.Russian intervention. The Russians say the sanctions reflect an
:21:57. > :22:00.inability to see reality as expressed in the referendum they
:22:01. > :22:05.organised. President Putin has signed a degree recognising Crimea
:22:06. > :22:15.as an independent and sovereign state. We're in the capital of
:22:16. > :22:21.Crimea. Tell me about these sanctions? The EU have put them in
:22:22. > :22:26.place on several individuals, mostly officials here in this newly
:22:27. > :22:30.independent Republic of Crimea. The ones from the United States, more
:22:31. > :22:35.interesting perhaps, seven people close to President Putin. His inner
:22:36. > :22:38.circle, if you like, of advisers on foreign policy and legal aspects of
:22:39. > :22:43.what has been done. And while I think it is fair to say that the
:22:44. > :22:47.European ones aren't going to cause too many sleepless nights here and
:22:48. > :22:52.many of these local officials don't have much money, the asset seizures
:22:53. > :22:59.and other measures are definitely sending a signal from the US to
:23:00. > :23:07.President Putin. Won't Putin though have seen these coming rather? I
:23:08. > :23:10.think he has. If you look at this, each side seems to have thought a
:23:11. > :23:13.couple of steps ahead. We have had the threats for example of military
:23:14. > :23:18.intervention in eastern Ukraine. I don't think he wants to do that at
:23:19. > :23:22.the moment. And it seems to have been designed to make people accept
:23:23. > :23:28.the loss of Crimea, if you like, as the lesser problem. He's also talked
:23:29. > :23:33.about, hinted that he realised Russia may be forced out of the G8
:23:34. > :23:36.organisation. He's definitely done that. Interestingly hints from
:23:37. > :23:41.President Obama that he too has done that, talking about further steps in
:23:42. > :23:47.prospect, the Americans ultimately if this got worse and worse could go
:23:48. > :23:54.to Iran-style sanctions. But at the moment nobody here in Crimea is
:23:55. > :24:06.losing sleep about that, they are ebb bullent, they feel they are
:24:07. > :24:11.winning. NSMIT Here they believe might is right. Security was stepped
:24:12. > :24:16.up and a message sent to foreigners who said their referendum was
:24:17. > :24:21.illegal. Inside the thumping majority for union with Russia
:24:22. > :24:29.brought the deputies to rapture. Then they voted through a series of
:24:30. > :24:34.dramatic laws to adopt the rouble, even to switch to Russian time zone,
:24:35. > :24:41.and of course for union with Russia. They did no more than answer the
:24:42. > :24:46.call of so many Crimeans to escape the ineptitude of Ukrainian rule and
:24:47. > :24:52.enter the powerful embrace of Mother Russia. TRANSLATION: The Ukraine
:24:53. > :25:00.will not be able to unite us and so give us a better life. Russia is a
:25:01. > :25:06.stronger country, I'm Russian myself, I'm from St Petersburg, and
:25:07. > :25:11.I know that life will be better now. But it was done so crudely, a false
:25:12. > :25:16.choice of ballot that made what would naturally have been a majority
:25:17. > :25:24.for Russia into something spurn bid the wider world and creating so many
:25:25. > :25:30.new problems. Another law voted through this morning called for the
:25:31. > :25:35.disbandment of all the blockaded Ukrainian army units in Crimea. This
:25:36. > :25:40.is the airfield where early on Russian troops seized it and fired
:25:41. > :25:45.over the heads of Ukrainians who tried to take their base back. But
:25:46. > :25:57.we found signs that the spirit of resistance has flagged and that each
:25:58. > :26:02.man must take his own decisions. Like this officer who wanted his
:26:03. > :26:07.identity concealed. All my colleagues will decide which side we
:26:08. > :26:14.want to serve. Do you think perhaps the politicians in Kiev have given
:26:15. > :26:18.up that they don't think it is possible to hold the bases? For them
:26:19. > :26:23.it would be hard to leave us here in Crimea, it would be very hard to
:26:24. > :26:27.leave us on this base. What sort of decision do you think you will make?
:26:28. > :26:34.I will serve the Ukrainian nation and people. You will have to leave?
:26:35. > :26:43.Yes. I have to leave my own city, my natural city, I was porn born here.
:26:44. > :26:48.Unfortunately I have to do this. Here too is evidence of a deal to
:26:49. > :26:52.keep tensions under control. The Russians have pulled back on to the
:26:53. > :27:02.ridge out of view, while the personnel make up their minds to
:27:03. > :27:07.stay or go. ATR, an independent TV channel today relayed parliament's
:27:08. > :27:13.latest decisions. The station's owned by Crimean Tatas, many of whom
:27:14. > :27:18.refused to vote yesterday, and who feel they too will lose from this
:27:19. > :27:22.rapid move towards Russia. TRANSLATION: This is really an
:27:23. > :27:25.anxious time for us, we have been through a lot of difficulties. So it
:27:26. > :27:31.isn't easy to say whether things are going to get better now. But the
:27:32. > :27:42.thing is, we are worried, and judging by Russian policy today, our
:27:43. > :27:48.worst fears may come through. For Crimean Tatas, a memory of this man,
:27:49. > :27:52.who deported their entire people after the war haunts them. And
:27:53. > :27:58.Stalin's grand design has its timely reminder for Europe too. For it was
:27:59. > :28:03.here in 1945 at the Crimean resort that there was an earlier
:28:04. > :28:07.acquiscence to Moscow that had far-reaching consequences. Britain
:28:08. > :28:11.and America went along here with the idea that each great power should
:28:12. > :28:16.have its sphere of influence. And many people saw that as consigning
:28:17. > :28:23.millions in Eastern Europe to the mercy of the Kremlin. And that's why
:28:24. > :28:28.Yalta has some concomfortable resonances today. It is this concept
:28:29. > :28:33.that Russia can pretty much do what it wants in its own back yard. But
:28:34. > :28:39.history has a more positive meaning for Russians, so much so it is used
:28:40. > :28:46.and abused in today's messages to the Crimean people. Can it inform
:28:47. > :28:52.the future and carry them through the crisis, we asked some students?
:28:53. > :28:55.I love the Ukrainian language, the Ukrainian poets and music. But I
:28:56. > :28:59.don't like the Government at the moment. I don't like what they do. I
:29:00. > :29:02.think this is really pretty good idea to go, it is joining Russia at
:29:03. > :29:21.the moment. Most of may've friends are not happy at all, Crimea must be
:29:22. > :29:26.with the People divide on whether Russia has flouted its power here.
:29:27. > :29:30.But in the actions of the past day the Kremlin has shown it will
:29:31. > :29:36.weather the storm and drive over the opposition to the annexation of
:29:37. > :29:39.Crimea. The organisation which is supposed to keep an eye on the
:29:40. > :29:42.police has looked at itself and found itself rather wanting. In
:29:43. > :29:47.particular it notices that the families of people who have died
:29:48. > :29:54.while in police custody consider it hard hearted and lacking in
:29:55. > :29:56.compassion. The Independent Police Complaints Commisssion, acknowledges
:29:57. > :30:00.a raft of faults but doesn't call for itself to be abolished. Others
:30:01. > :30:05.are saying that is absolutely what ought to happen. The strongest
:30:06. > :30:10.criticism in today's report is how the IPCC engage with bereaved
:30:11. > :30:14.families in its investigations. Families complained that
:30:15. > :30:18.communication lacked empathy, sensitively and compassion, some
:30:19. > :30:23.felt they and those who had died were wrongly characterised or
:30:24. > :30:30.unfairly judged. There were also questions about how independent the
:30:31. > :30:35.IPCC actually is? The family of Sean Rigg have been the most vocal in
:30:36. > :30:39.their criticism. In 2008 Sean Rigg died after a cardiac arrest while
:30:40. > :30:44.being held at Brixton Police Station. Unusually the IPCC had to
:30:45. > :30:49.set up a review into its own investigation after an inquest into
:30:50. > :30:56.Mr Rigg's death found that police officers had used unsuitable force.
:30:57. > :31:00.Something the first report failed to recognise. There is no trust in the
:31:01. > :31:04.police. At all within the community and particularly within the black
:31:05. > :31:10.community. Because they are corrupt, they are racist and they don't care.
:31:11. > :31:17.They are killing us. They are killing us. This self-scrutiny by
:31:18. > :31:22.the IPCC follows criticism of the police itself over the undercover
:31:23. > :31:26.infiltration of political groups. The same force is still recovering
:31:27. > :31:32.from the damage to its reputation caused by the plebgate scandal. The
:31:33. > :31:37.IPCC itself had to apologise to the family of Mark Duggan, whose death
:31:38. > :31:43.in 2011 led to riots in London and other cities. The IPCC had wrongly
:31:44. > :31:48.told the media that he had fired at police before he was shot. Earlier
:31:49. > :31:52.this month the shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper called for the body to
:31:53. > :31:57.be abolished saying the system wasn't working and the IPCC has
:31:58. > :32:03.failed or proved irrelevant too many times, and lacks the powers and
:32:04. > :32:08.authorities it needs. We have the chair of the Independent
:32:09. > :32:13.Police Complaints Commisssion, the IPCC and she is here. We will come
:32:14. > :32:17.to Yvette Cooper's point in a moment. You took over in 2012. Were
:32:18. > :32:22.you surprised at how bad the situation was that you found there?
:32:23. > :32:25.No I wasn't actually. I was immediately struck by how
:32:26. > :32:30.demoralised people were. People felt battered by criticism and often when
:32:31. > :32:35.people feel battered by criticism they retreat into being quite
:32:36. > :32:39.defensive. But you can't deny the things the IPCC has achieved and
:32:40. > :32:44.will continue to achieve. We don't always get it right. By no means do
:32:45. > :32:55.we get it wrong. There have been some pretty aggrieguos error,
:32:56. > :33:04.particularly that Mark Duggan had fired at the police when he hadn't?
:33:05. > :33:08.How does It happens, it was not in the news release and it led to
:33:09. > :33:11.changes. You did ask around how it happened? It was a comment who
:33:12. > :33:15.thought that was what happened when asked by a journalist. But it wasn't
:33:16. > :33:19.in the official press release. It was completely wrong. It wasn't
:33:20. > :33:23.right, absolutely. It is a classic example of when these things happen,
:33:24. > :33:26.these crises, of only saying those things that you absolutely know to
:33:27. > :33:33.be the case. It couldn't happen again. I would hope it wouldn't. We
:33:34. > :33:36.have made huge steps to make sure it wouldn't happen again. You look at
:33:37. > :33:40.this report it is pretty scathing, it talks about a lack of
:33:41. > :33:47.thoroughness, a lack of robust analysis of evidence, a lack of
:33:48. > :33:52.sufficient challenge to police accounts. These are serious points?
:33:53. > :33:56.This is our review of ourselves. You are looking yourself in the face and
:33:57. > :33:58.not liking what you see? We are acknowledging the times we haven't
:33:59. > :34:05.got it right. That doesn't mean that is always the case. For example
:34:06. > :34:08.there are 20 metropolitan police officers dismissed as a result of
:34:09. > :34:13.IPCC investigations. There are fewer than half the deaths in custody. We
:34:14. > :34:16.need to look at when we don't get it right, why is that? We have
:34:17. > :34:19.identified some of the areas we need to look at. You do accept there is a
:34:20. > :34:25.perception among some people that the job of your organisation is to
:34:26. > :34:30.explain away the behaviour of the police rather than to investigate
:34:31. > :34:34.it? I don't think that is true. Of course you would say that? That's
:34:35. > :34:39.not the kind of organisation I would lead or want to lead. That is not
:34:40. > :34:41.where I'm coming from. I think sometimes we haven't been
:34:42. > :34:45.sufficiently probing, that is absolutely right. I think sometimes
:34:46. > :34:47.the first account and the most coherent account you get is the
:34:48. > :34:50.account from the police. That doesn't make it wrong but it doesn't
:34:51. > :34:56.make it right. Investigating the police is a really hard job. And
:34:57. > :35:02.mainly carried out by ex-policemen? Not mainly at all. Around a quarter
:35:03. > :35:08.of our investigators are ex-police officers, and about 40% all together
:35:09. > :35:10.have worked for the police. But we have independent commissioners who
:35:11. > :35:12.have never worked for the police sitting on top of every
:35:13. > :35:16.investigation. We have strengthened their role. We are building a
:35:17. > :35:20.culture of challenge and a culture where we can challenge each other
:35:21. > :35:24.internally to challenge others and challenge externally. How much do
:35:25. > :35:29.you cost a year? At the moment our core putting is about ?32 million
:35:30. > :35:32.and money for Hillsborough. How much is that spent investigating? A lot
:35:33. > :35:36.of it is spent investigating and dealing with appeals against the
:35:37. > :35:40.police. We deal with 6,000 appeals every year against police
:35:41. > :35:45.investigations, we uphold the appellant half the times. In 47% of
:35:46. > :35:49.cases the police have got it wrong in investigations and we tell them
:35:50. > :35:55.so. It is the case, isn't it, that the majority of cases that are
:35:56. > :35:59.recommended to you can't investigate? We haven't got the
:36:00. > :36:03.resources to do it, no. We will be giving more resources. It is an
:36:04. > :36:07.enormous chasam too isn't it? It is something that really troubles us,
:36:08. > :36:13.every week we get 70 cases referred by the police. We can't deal with as
:36:14. > :36:17.many as we want to. How many of that 70 do you reckon you can deal with?
:36:18. > :36:21.Perhaps one or two, we are dealing with 130 all together. That is all
:36:22. > :36:26.we can do. But we are getting more resources to do more. Would you not
:36:27. > :36:30.conclude that from that Yvette Cooper is probably righ that it is
:36:31. > :36:33.about time you were wound up and replaced with something a bit more
:36:34. > :36:37.efficient? It is not efficiency it is time we were given more resources
:36:38. > :36:41.to do the job the public want us to. If you get 2,000 cases referred to
:36:42. > :36:46.you a year and you can investigate a few hundred. It may be a case of
:36:47. > :36:50.efficiency or lack of eCirbedcy? We are also doing 6 thousand appeals
:36:51. > :36:54.every year from investigations -- 6,000 appeals every year where the
:36:55. > :36:59.local police have got it wrong. We don't just do investigations we do
:37:00. > :37:02.the appeals also. We were never sufficiently resourced and now we
:37:03. > :37:07.are getting them. When do you reckon you will be able to do 100% of the
:37:08. > :37:11.cases you are asked to do? I would hope as more resources come in the
:37:12. > :37:16.next three years we will be able to do the serious and sensitive cases
:37:17. > :37:19.the public expects an independent body to look at. That will take
:37:20. > :37:24.three years to get to what you think you would like to get to let alone
:37:25. > :37:29.100%? It will take more resource and more resource means you have to
:37:30. > :37:34.recruit more staff. Even when I get more money I can't send pound notes
:37:35. > :37:38.to interview, we have to employ the right staff in the right place. No
:37:39. > :37:41.business in the world will say it can expand massively within a year.
:37:42. > :37:46.You have to do it properly and you have to get the right people in the
:37:47. > :37:50.right place. I do not want to be doing investigations to the poor
:37:51. > :37:52.quality that the police are doing many investigations just now I want
:37:53. > :37:57.to be able to do them properly and well. Otherwise we will get exactly
:37:58. > :38:01.the same kind of reports that we are having. How many poor-quality
:38:02. > :38:05.investigations by the police do you come across then? As I say 47% of
:38:06. > :38:10.those cases appealed to us, we uphold the appeal on the ground the
:38:11. > :38:15.police haven't done it well enough. How was it then that things got so
:38:16. > :38:21.bad in the police, and so demoralised in your organisation
:38:22. > :38:25.that we got to this mess? I think again when the IPCC was set up, it
:38:26. > :38:27.was doing something that had never been done before, independently
:38:28. > :38:32.investigating the police. Nobody had tried doing that before. It faced
:38:33. > :38:36.considerable resistance from the police, and from the beginning it
:38:37. > :38:39.was underresourced for the job it the public expected. That is a
:38:40. > :38:44.triple whammy. In the face of that to have done what the IPCC has done.
:38:45. > :38:46.To have a lot of people not walking the streets of police uniform
:38:47. > :38:51.because of investigations, to have the number of deaths in custody more
:38:52. > :38:55.than halved. To have considerable changes in police practice. Those
:38:56. > :39:00.are real results. But we have to get it right consistently and across the
:39:01. > :39:04.board. This is the last gasp, if you don't get it right now you will be
:39:05. > :39:07.wound up? Absolutely, we have a huge challenge and opportunity. More
:39:08. > :39:11.resores but more expected. I know that and all our staff know that.
:39:12. > :39:15.When we ask our staff, what do you want to do, what gets them out of
:39:16. > :39:27.bed in the morning, they say trust today hold the police to accountice
:39:28. > :39:32.to account. That is an organisation worth working for. At last someone
:39:33. > :39:35.has come up with a scheme to save the BBC, an organisation everyone
:39:36. > :39:43.says they love in principle, but which fewer and fewer of us seem
:39:44. > :39:48.keen to put into practice. Comeeth the hour cometh the man. Noel
:39:49. > :39:54.Edmonds has talked about buying it with investors. He has denied that
:39:55. > :40:00.Keith keg win will become controller of BBC Four and says he's entirely
:40:01. > :40:14.serious. What do you reckon is the notional value of the BBC if it can
:40:15. > :40:16.be boughtC Four and says he's entirely serious. What do you reckon
:40:17. > :40:19.is the notional value of the BBC if it can be bought? I have no idea,
:40:20. > :40:22.because the components are changing every week. I have no idea and we
:40:23. > :40:25.have run models on what the BBC would be worth today and at the end
:40:26. > :40:28.of the next round of cuts and what it could be worth on the open
:40:29. > :40:32.market. And those figures are roughly what? I'm not going to say
:40:33. > :40:36.at this particular time, for obvious business reasons. So you have got,
:40:37. > :40:44.when you say "we", you have got a consortium of people together have
:40:45. > :40:48.you? Yes. Project Rieth, predates everything that has recently
:40:49. > :40:56.happened for the BBC, by that I mean the Jimmy Savile scandal, and the
:40:57. > :41:02.George Enthwhistle in for 60 days. The matter of executive pay and what
:41:03. > :41:06.people were entitled to. Attacks by eminent broadcasters on the BBC. And
:41:07. > :41:12.of course the announcement that BBC will be cut. The project actually
:41:13. > :41:16.started about 18 months ago. Who are these people? Like-minded people,
:41:17. > :41:22.people who don't want to see Britain lose the BBC and that is how serious
:41:23. > :41:29.it is. Who are they? Like-minded people, what, with the greatest of
:41:30. > :41:34.respect, lots of blokes with beards presenting afternoon television
:41:35. > :41:38.series, what is the like-minded people? I won't talk about the
:41:39. > :41:42.components of this project in that kind of detail. There will be the
:41:43. > :41:48.right time to do that. We believe that the BBC is sleepwalking its way
:41:49. > :41:53.to destruction, and the BBC will be lost to Britain. We do not think
:41:54. > :41:58.that is right. Mr Blobby is the man to save it? Well, Jeremy, I like the
:41:59. > :42:04.little extras that you are throwing into this but the situation is very,
:42:05. > :42:09.very serious. You yourself has said, John Humphreys has said in the last
:42:10. > :42:12.48 hours. This is a really serious situation, where the BBC because of
:42:13. > :42:17.its triple problems and the way it is funded, historic baggage and the
:42:18. > :42:21.way in which it is used as a political football. Its future, its
:42:22. > :42:26.very future is in doubt. What would it be like under your consortium,
:42:27. > :42:32.what would the BBC do that it doesn't do now or not do that it
:42:33. > :42:36.does do now? I doubt it you have the time for me to go into the kind of
:42:37. > :42:41.detail that clearly you want. But you have got to look at where the
:42:42. > :42:45.BBC is currently going to try to imagine how you would make it fit
:42:46. > :42:49.for purpose. It is not fit for purpose in the Apple age and
:42:50. > :42:54.Microsoft. The age very large businesses that would love to pick
:42:55. > :43:02.over the carcass of the BBC. As quite clearly the BBC is recognising
:43:03. > :43:06.it is the wrong shape. What would you cut? I'm not going to say what
:43:07. > :43:11.we will cut. Because we don't know what will be left. Is BBC Four going
:43:12. > :43:16.to go in a moment, will we lose the two children's channels. What I
:43:17. > :43:20.would say is because of the historic baggage, we have got a ridiculous
:43:21. > :43:23.situation where the license fee now covers the World Service. Most
:43:24. > :43:28.people in Britain don't know how to get the World Service. There are
:43:29. > :43:33.50,000 people speaking gaelic, Welsh language has been declining over ten
:43:34. > :43:37.years and the BBC spends ?48 million on that. Clearly you have to look at
:43:38. > :43:47.making the BBC relevant to the Internet age. Bad news for the
:43:48. > :43:50.Welsh. What about orchestras? That is not true, because they would
:43:51. > :43:54.still have Welsh services as Scotland would. It is the extra
:43:55. > :43:59.things that most people these days can get on-line. And the BBC,
:44:00. > :44:03.frankly, if it owned up to it, is lumbered with it. They don't want to
:44:04. > :44:07.be paying for the World Service, I have massive love and respect for
:44:08. > :44:13.the BBC, but the problem is it doesn't have enough control over its
:44:14. > :44:18.over future. It is a patient that is terminally ill and it needs another
:44:19. > :44:23.force from outside to cure it and make it fit for a world that we
:44:24. > :44:30.couldn't have envisaged ten years ago. Ten years ago we haven't have
:44:31. > :44:35.YouTube or Netflix, we didn't have iPads or these kinds of things. The
:44:36. > :44:39.way to get the BBC in ten years' time if it was, and it does get an
:44:40. > :44:43.extension of the royal charter. We will be getting our entertainment,
:44:44. > :44:48.manufactures and education in a totally different way. The BBC has
:44:49. > :44:53.to be configured to do that. Clearly that has to happen. There has to be
:44:54. > :44:56.a huge change. But please don't be as secretive about this as you have
:44:57. > :45:00.been about investors and promming plans and the rest -- programme
:45:01. > :45:04.plans and the rest of it. Are you currently paying the TV license fee?
:45:05. > :45:17.I don't have a TV license. Is that because you don't have a television?
:45:18. > :45:19.I don't watch, except on catch-up. On't have a TV license. Is that
:45:20. > :45:22.because you don't have a television? I don't watch, except on catch-up.
:45:23. > :45:29.That's it for tonight, if you were hoping for the film on FGM it will
:45:30. > :45:34.be on later on in the week. Clarissa Dixon Wright died today,
:45:35. > :45:38.she was well known for the show Two Fat Ladies, but around our office
:45:39. > :45:42.she's most fondly recalled for keeping hungry hacks going through
:45:43. > :46:10.some long winter evenings a few years ago. Good night. Right you
:46:11. > :46:12.lot, here you are. You were