:00:21. > :00:24.accused of delate. While the batteries on the flight black box
:00:25. > :00:32.recorder are running out. Could this be the wreckage of the missing
:00:33. > :00:36.plane, as we are looking at the search area. The man who provided
:00:37. > :00:40.the crucial information is here. Would you like to cash in your
:00:41. > :00:45.pension, buy one of these? The Government's new rules say no
:00:46. > :00:48.problem. If people do buy a Lambourghini but know they will live
:00:49. > :00:52.on the state pension, that becomes their choice and the state is much
:00:53. > :00:59.less concerned about that. But surely no-one would be that daft.
:01:00. > :01:03.I'm going to spend, spend, spend. The Pensions Minister will be here
:01:04. > :01:07.to clarify. A what happens when you write about your every emotion?
:01:08. > :01:15.Answer, you might get a best seller, but half your family stops talking
:01:16. > :01:19.to you. . "I had long wished him dead, but from the very second I
:01:20. > :01:30.realised his life could soon be over, I began to hope for it". It's
:01:31. > :01:35.morning in Malaysia, and for the families still waiting to learn the
:01:36. > :01:42.fate of the 239 passengers and crew of flight MH-370, more importantly
:01:43. > :01:46.searches are about to resume 2,000 miles off the Australian coast. That
:01:47. > :01:50.is where grainy images were captured, that appear to be the
:01:51. > :01:53.first genuine clues of the plane's where abouts. The first
:01:54. > :01:57.investigations of that area turned up nothing. But it is still the
:01:58. > :02:00.centre of the search. Yet tonight there is pressure on the Malaysian
:02:01. > :02:09.Government over whether they have acted fast enough. Jim Reid is in
:02:10. > :02:13.Kuala Lumpur for us this evening. It is around six. 30 in the morning
:02:14. > :02:17.here, and this building behind me is where many of the family members of
:02:18. > :02:21.people who boarded the plane are staying here in Kuala Lumpur. In
:02:22. > :02:25.around half an hour's time the sun here will come up, it will also rise
:02:26. > :02:30.in western Australia. That will mean that flights once again, search
:02:31. > :02:34.flights, can resume to this area identified yesterday round about
:02:35. > :02:38.4,000 miles from here. As you said, satellite imagery, commercial
:02:39. > :02:43.satellite imagery appeared to show large pieces of debris beneath the
:02:44. > :02:47.surface there, which could or could not be related, we don't know yet,
:02:48. > :02:51.to this missing plane. Also overnight we learned that data which
:02:52. > :02:55.could have helped identify and pinpoint that area was passed to the
:02:56. > :03:01.Malaysian authorities ten days ago. But wasn't used straightaway. That's
:03:02. > :03:05.clearly important, if this plane did ditch into the sea, then the longer
:03:06. > :03:09.that debris is held under water the more chance there is that it is
:03:10. > :03:14.moved by currents and tides and therefore just not found at all over
:03:15. > :03:20.time. Overalthough, what this tells us is that at the end of all this
:03:21. > :03:26.this is the best lead yet in this long-running saga. A lead which, an
:03:27. > :03:32.investigation which has been criticised by many from the start. A
:03:33. > :03:37.warning that this report contains some flash photography.
:03:38. > :03:42.Two tiny specks on a grainy photograph, now the centre of a huge
:03:43. > :03:47.international search. 29 aircraft, 18 ships, and six helicopters are
:03:48. > :03:54.now looking for one missing plane and the 269 people on board.
:03:55. > :03:59.Military aircraft sent out from the Australian coast west, deep into the
:04:00. > :04:03.Indian Ocean. Their job is to find the pleases of debris on the
:04:04. > :04:09.satellite images. The largest is 24ms long, the lead is said to be
:04:10. > :04:12.credible. At a news conference, Malaysia's Defence Minister had
:04:13. > :04:15.something solid to report for the first time in days. REPORTER:
:04:16. > :04:19.Minister you keep using the word "credible", can you explain what
:04:20. > :04:25.makes it so different? Right now the information that we have received
:04:26. > :04:28.from the Australian authorities was actually coroborated to a certain
:04:29. > :04:35.extent from other satellites, this is something that we can bring our
:04:36. > :04:44.ships acrosses? This is something the two prime ministers spoke to,
:04:45. > :04:48.that makes it different from the earlier leads. From the naval base
:04:49. > :04:53.they are sent down to the southern corridor, the swathe where satellite
:04:54. > :04:57.readers show the plane may have been heading. A military radar station up
:04:58. > :05:02.the coast from here picks up one of the last signals from the plane, as
:05:03. > :05:06.it left Malaysian airspace and flew west across the strait. Two weeks
:05:07. > :05:10.after that plane went missing this country is still looking for
:05:11. > :05:15.answers. Malaysia's ruling party in power without a break since 1955 is
:05:16. > :05:22.not used to this kind of pressure, this kind of scrutiny, both from the
:05:23. > :05:29.international community and from its own citizens.
:05:30. > :05:32.It is in large cities with a tech friendly population that the
:05:33. > :05:35.Government is being tested. Newspapers and TV stations are
:05:36. > :05:41.heavily regulated or controlled by allies of the Government. But
:05:42. > :05:45.millions of young Malaysians are getting their news in other ways
:05:46. > :05:48.these days, on blogs and on Twitter people are free to report what they
:05:49. > :05:51.want. Because there is a general distrust I think there is a lot of
:05:52. > :05:55.media coverage about how inefficient the Government has been, how slow it
:05:56. > :06:01.has been and things, people have latched on to that rhetoric as well,
:06:02. > :06:06.to use it and go, they might be lying, are they hiding stuff. That
:06:07. > :06:09.kind of thing on top of speculation, the lying accusations are coming
:06:10. > :06:13.out. It is everywhere on the Internet. That all came to a head
:06:14. > :06:17.this week when Chinese relatives of missing passengers tried to storm
:06:18. > :06:21.the daily news conference and were dragged away by security. The
:06:22. > :06:26.Malaysian Government has been repeatedly accused of wasting
:06:27. > :06:31.valuable time and announcing crucial details only to U-turn completely
:06:32. > :06:36.the next day. Just this evening British satellite operators said
:06:37. > :06:40.there were strong indications ten days ago that the Boeing 777 would
:06:41. > :06:44.be found either in the southern part of the Indian Ocean or central Asia
:06:45. > :06:48.and not in the seas around Malaysia where a wild goose chase continued
:06:49. > :06:53.for at least two days after that information was passed on. Ministers
:06:54. > :06:57.here in Malaysia say no other country has had to deal with the
:06:58. > :07:01.situation like this before. A source close to the Government told us th
:07:02. > :07:05.western media is simply biased against the developing world and the
:07:06. > :07:12.level of criticism is, in his words, below the belt. The most influential
:07:13. > :07:17.opposition figure in Malaysian politics is currently facing a
:07:18. > :07:24.five-year jail term, he claims long-standing charges of sod me,
:07:25. > :07:33.still technically -- sodomy, still technically illegal here are false.
:07:34. > :07:39.It episode confirms what we have been saying for decade, which is
:07:40. > :07:43.that this poor governance, authoritarian, they will use
:07:44. > :07:47.anything just to stifle the opposition. Is there a danger that
:07:48. > :07:52.many people in Malaysia are going to look at this and think you are
:07:53. > :07:56.exploiting this tragedy for political gains? I'm sharing
:07:57. > :08:01.information to help. What else do you expect me to do, to say it is OK
:08:02. > :08:07.they are handling it brilliantly? But you know the facts prove
:08:08. > :08:13.otherwise, things have to change. I strongly urge the Government last
:08:14. > :08:17.week in parliament to say, please, acknowledge your faults and move on.
:08:18. > :08:21.Release the information, apologise for the shortcomings. But this
:08:22. > :08:28.situation also offers an insight into the nuances of diplomacy and
:08:29. > :08:38.power in modern south-east Asia. 153 of the passengers on board the
:08:39. > :08:42.flight are from mainland China. Kuala Lumpur's peddling district,
:08:43. > :08:47.the threat by the relatives to go on hunger strikes is big news. The
:08:48. > :08:54.links between Malaysia and China are strong, a quarter of all Malaysians
:08:55. > :08:57.are ethnic Chinese. What might have united the two countries, that
:08:58. > :09:04.relationship has become more and more trained as time as gone on. The
:09:05. > :09:07.Chinese Ambassador was using very undiplomatic language this week,
:09:08. > :09:12.complaining of chaos and rumours making it impossible to think. The
:09:13. > :09:15.Chinese Government was under tremendous pressure, especially in
:09:16. > :09:19.the Chinese social media space. The young Chinese people nowadays they
:09:20. > :09:24.realised that China is a growing power, what they couldn't understand
:09:25. > :09:27.is why the Chinese Government put more pressure, couldn't they put
:09:28. > :09:32.more pressure being a regional power on a small country like Malaysia to
:09:33. > :09:36.do more in terms of search and rescue operations. Search planes
:09:37. > :09:39.will make a new attempt to reach the suspicious debris, floating
:09:40. > :09:43.somewhere in the Indian Ocean. If and when the objects do turn out to
:09:44. > :09:47.be the missing airliner, the attention turns to another, bigger
:09:48. > :10:06.question, what exactly happened to the flight. With us now are my
:10:07. > :10:11.guests. Chris, briefly, explain what your satellite company does? It is a
:10:12. > :10:16.global satellite operator, we concentrate with data and voice, we
:10:17. > :10:19.operate the global maritime distress service and operate safety services
:10:20. > :10:23.for the aircraft and your reporter was using our equipment. What
:10:24. > :10:28.precisely did you give to the Malaysians in terms of information
:10:29. > :10:31.and crucially, when? When you mean the Malaysians that is the Malaysian
:10:32. > :10:35.investigation, on Tuesday we gave a plot that our engineers thought
:10:36. > :10:40.might be of use to the inquiry which had a north and south run to it.
:10:41. > :10:46.Because of the nature of the information just a sim ping with no
:10:47. > :10:51.GPS data we could give no more than a suggested route. When did they act
:10:52. > :10:55.on that information, we are on Thursday? We gave it on Tuesday, and
:10:56. > :11:00.we can't say when they decided to act on it, I would note that the US
:11:01. > :11:03.sent ships down to the south on Thursday morning. There was a delay,
:11:04. > :11:07.a time during which they could have been searching in a more precise
:11:08. > :11:10.area than the vast corridors we have been talking about over the last
:11:11. > :11:13.couple of days? Clearly we are not here to criticise the Malaysian
:11:14. > :11:17.Government, far from it, it has been a difficult time for them. What we
:11:18. > :11:21.would say is we provided broad data for people to look at. As far as you
:11:22. > :11:25.know, did they pass that kind of information on to other countries,
:11:26. > :11:29.particularly China, and would it have been helpful for them to do so
:11:30. > :11:32.as far as you know? Well the investigation itself is something
:11:33. > :11:36.that I can't comment on, as far as I know China would have been an
:11:37. > :11:39.interested party and we would have been clearly expecting that to have
:11:40. > :11:43.been passed on. David you know how these things work, it does appear
:11:44. > :11:49.that there has been a delay. How would that delay have had an effect
:11:50. > :11:55.on ever finding the plane? Every day is absolutely crucial, and in a
:11:56. > :12:02.search like this, with time, information degrades. Looking at the
:12:03. > :12:06.surface wreckage, even at a very minimal current, ocean current of
:12:07. > :12:12.one nautical mile it spreads out each day 24 nautical miles. So after
:12:13. > :12:16.eight days that wreckage could be 200 nautical miles away from where
:12:17. > :12:24.the plane actually plunged into the ocean. In terms of layman's miles,
:12:25. > :12:29.200 nautical miles? Nautical miles are 15% bigger than a statute mile,
:12:30. > :12:33.about 230 miles. Very significant distances in terms of this kind of
:12:34. > :12:37.search. The crucial piece of evidence, the black box, it stops
:12:38. > :12:42.working after some time, 30 days doesn't it? It is a pinger attached
:12:43. > :12:45.to the black box which can you can use to locate T that is the key
:12:46. > :12:50.window of opportunity that is closing very fast. As soon as the
:12:51. > :12:54.black box and the pinger is submerged into sea water it starts
:12:55. > :12:59.pinging, once a second, it will do that for approximately 30 days then
:13:00. > :13:03.the batteries won't last after that. Sometimes actually they don't even
:13:04. > :13:08.last 30 days. So by the time they can actually get the equipment out
:13:09. > :13:15.into this area of the world to start listening for the pinger you are
:13:16. > :13:19.probably looking at something in the order of 22 days. There is probably
:13:20. > :13:24.only a handful of days left. Even if they start mobilising this equipment
:13:25. > :13:27.virtually overnight. We are in an absolutely critical time window
:13:28. > :13:32.here, that as you suggest is closing very fast. If they do, in the search
:13:33. > :13:36.tomorrow, manage to confirm that this is debris from the plane, what
:13:37. > :13:40.happens next then, that is, in a sense, the start of the next phase?
:13:41. > :13:43.Then they remobilise all the assets that have been searching everywhere
:13:44. > :13:47.else in the world, the planes, the aircraft, bring them all into this
:13:48. > :13:52.one zone and then they have to start looking for multiple pieces of
:13:53. > :13:55.wreckage, because tracking this back to the plunge point, based on one
:13:56. > :14:00.piece is very difficult. There will be a lot more wreckage in the water
:14:01. > :14:04.that they will be able to use to help do that back tracking. You are
:14:05. > :14:08.very experienced in having done this. Just describe the scale of
:14:09. > :14:13.what they are trying to achieve here, the difficulty? This is
:14:14. > :14:18.unprecedented in terms of searching for an aircraft that has been lost,
:14:19. > :14:21.it is almost a search within a search within a search and another
:14:22. > :14:28.search on top of that. The first thing they have to do is locate this
:14:29. > :14:31.potential wreckage that was seen on eight days after the plane crash,
:14:32. > :14:36.four days ago, five days ago tomorrow. That alone could have
:14:37. > :14:41.drifted over 100 nautical miles away. They need to find that and use
:14:42. > :14:44.that to back track them to where the other wreckage is, and then to back
:14:45. > :14:48.track it to the plunge point and then you start with the sub-sea
:14:49. > :14:51.search. That is just the surface search. Then you have to try to
:14:52. > :14:55.listen to the pinger, time is running out, if you don't hear the
:14:56. > :14:59.pinger you are dealing with an enormous search box. Much larger
:15:00. > :15:02.than anything we saw with Air France. So this step would be the
:15:03. > :15:06.first of many if it is indeed the correct one to take. We are sadly on
:15:07. > :15:10.day 13 now, briefly to both of you with experience in this, do you
:15:11. > :15:15.think it is viable that we will find the plane? I think the window is
:15:16. > :15:18.closing and even a couple of days ago I thought it was very, very
:15:19. > :15:24.difficult and they really have to get lucky, they have to find
:15:25. > :15:29.wreckage quickly, they have to find maybe, listen, hear something from
:15:30. > :15:33.the pinger but it is really getting very tight now. To you Chris, do you
:15:34. > :15:39.think this will be found? It is more a case of isn't it time to mandate
:15:40. > :15:42.all aircraft having tracking devices on board, it is done for the North
:15:43. > :15:46.Atlantic why not the rest of the world. Thank you very much for
:15:47. > :15:50.joining us tonight. Money doesn't quite make the world go round, but
:15:51. > :15:55.it is probably what preoccupies politicians more than anything else.
:15:56. > :16:01.At least these days. But should it? Sir gust O'Donnell who rose to the
:16:02. > :16:04.top of the Civil Service as an expert bean counter believes with
:16:05. > :16:07.the benefit of hindsight believes there should be much more to
:16:08. > :16:10.Westminster, mandarins and ministers should focus on our well being
:16:11. > :16:14.instead. That sounds rather nice, what does it mean in terms of
:16:15. > :16:20.concrete policies? Well, that was my first question. Why don't we have
:16:21. > :16:24.three manifestos that say how we are going in the five years we will have
:16:25. > :16:27.in the next fixed-term parliament to improve the well being of you. We
:16:28. > :16:31.have measures now, we know that actually in the last couple of years
:16:32. > :16:35.well-being has been going up in the UK. What would you put in those
:16:36. > :16:40.manifestos then? I would say we really need to care about
:16:41. > :16:43.unemployment, I would be very tough love, I think just giving people
:16:44. > :16:47.benefits and not getting them engaged with the Labour market is a
:16:48. > :16:52.mistake. We need to get people into work that improves their
:16:53. > :16:56.self-esteem. I would be much fiercer on the conditionality tests. I would
:16:57. > :17:01.be saying people at the moment I think they need to engage in three
:17:02. > :17:05.attempts to get jobs to get benefits, I would increase that
:17:06. > :17:11.dramatically. A tougher approach on unemployment? A tougher approach on
:17:12. > :17:13.unemployment. I would definitely be reallocating resources towards
:17:14. > :17:16.mental health, that is hugely important. I would change the
:17:17. > :17:20.treatments, far too many of the treatments are giving people
:17:21. > :17:23.antidepressants. I think building stronger communities. It is quite
:17:24. > :17:27.interesting, and I agree this is a long-term thing, but if you look at
:17:28. > :17:31.those countries that are really getting it right, in the
:17:32. > :17:34.Scandinavians, they have 60% of people who trust each other. You
:17:35. > :17:40.look at the Anglo-Saxon countries that goes down to 30-40%, southern
:17:41. > :17:44.Europe 20%, Africa a lot of them less than 10%. We need to do things
:17:45. > :17:48.to encourage trust, build communities, encourage volunteering.
:17:49. > :17:52.Look at the Olympics, we had a quarter of a million applicants to
:17:53. > :17:56.volunteer in the Olympics, 70,000 did it. The volunteers felt good
:17:57. > :18:00.about it, but we the public just seeing them felt good. It improved
:18:01. > :18:03.our well being. If politicians don't already have our well being at the
:18:04. > :18:10.forefront of their minds what do they have at the forefront of their
:18:11. > :18:15.minds? I think quite often they get kind of dragged away to things like
:18:16. > :18:18.saying let's think about GDP per capita, all of these measures that
:18:19. > :18:23.are given so much coverage, dare I say it, on the media. When GDP has
:18:24. > :18:28.gone up 0. 1 it is a triumph, and down the same it is a disaster.
:18:29. > :18:32.Those sorts of things do buy us our national debate. I think it is
:18:33. > :18:37.really important that we should be saying actually those kinds of
:18:38. > :18:40.things, they will be revised substantially and they are not that
:18:41. > :18:44.important. I care much more about the unemployment statistics than the
:18:45. > :18:48.GDP statistics. With that in mind then, even as a former Treasury
:18:49. > :18:53.economist, you are basically saying there is an element to which things
:18:54. > :19:00.like yesterday's budget are a bit of a charade, they don't matter that
:19:01. > :19:05.much? This is painful for me to say, having lived through decades worth
:19:06. > :19:09.of budgets, but I think yes they are far less important than I think we
:19:10. > :19:14.tend to say. You know the economy is driven by lots of long-run forces
:19:15. > :19:17.and short-term corrections on the tiller is what they are, and yeah,
:19:18. > :19:21.shouldn't be taken all that seriously. I think that this week's
:19:22. > :19:25.statistics that really matter were the overall life satisfaction for
:19:26. > :19:29.the UK going up. Why do we have then not just a budget but also an Autumn
:19:30. > :19:33.Statement now. Would you like to see that swept away or at least going
:19:34. > :19:36.back to one big financial statement a year? I would like to see
:19:37. > :19:41.Government move to a longer term plan, yes, like I say, now we have
:19:42. > :19:44.fixed term parliaments I don't think people have responded to this
:19:45. > :19:48.enough. I would have a Spending Review which is a five-year Spending
:19:49. > :19:51.Review for the whole of the next parliament, I would have that
:19:52. > :19:55.conditional on economic growth figures, I would then have my budget
:19:56. > :20:01.would be kind of interim reports on how we are doing along that and
:20:02. > :20:06.tacking things as they inevitably will turn out different than you
:20:07. > :20:10.expected. You would get rid of some of the circus, the annual date where
:20:11. > :20:14.you know it will happen, you wouldn't have it any more? I think
:20:15. > :20:22.it is a bit of a relic of a bygone era. Yes. He might think it is a
:20:23. > :20:26.relic but budgets can still do pretty dramatic things, yesterday it
:20:27. > :20:30.is proposed that pensioners should be allowed to get their mites on
:20:31. > :20:36.their own -- mitts on their own money when they want it. Rather than
:20:37. > :20:41.being tied into a dusty old annuity that will pay out in a miserly way.
:20:42. > :20:47.Steve Webb, the Pensions Minister, said he was relaxed if retirees blew
:20:48. > :20:52.it all on a Lambourghini and then lived on the state pension. We will
:20:53. > :20:56.talk to him in a moment. Now we see some lucky pensioners' spending
:20:57. > :21:01.plans. Some people are saying that the changes to pensions are as
:21:02. > :21:04.revolutionary as Margaret Thatcher's right to buy policy. So where better
:21:05. > :21:11.to find out what the grey vote makes of it all than a golf course in her
:21:12. > :21:14.old constituency in Finchley. Do you think the pension change is a good
:21:15. > :21:18.idea? It is a brilliant idea because it gives people the freedom to do
:21:19. > :21:23.what they want with their own money. What if they go crazy? They won't.
:21:24. > :21:28.People who have been in business all their lives and why should they
:21:29. > :21:32.waste the money? You don't think some people might be attempted to
:21:33. > :21:39.buy a sports car and go on a cruise, get a floozey? That's great idea,
:21:40. > :21:45.they might, I might take that up. The cruise or the flooze? The
:21:46. > :21:50.floozey. Are you going to go crazy? I'm going to spend, spend, spend. On
:21:51. > :21:57.what, cars, women, cruises, where is it going? All of those. All of the
:21:58. > :22:01.above! I won't spend, spend, spend. Why not? Because you have got to
:22:02. > :22:06.hopefully I have got another 30, 40 years to live. You never know! The
:22:07. > :22:11.Chancellor has been given credit today for delivering a politically
:22:12. > :22:18.clever budget that will win over older voters, but has it really
:22:19. > :22:26.worked? Has he bought your vote? No. He hasn't bought my vote and he's
:22:27. > :22:33.never actually had my vote. No that's not going to sway it for me.
:22:34. > :22:36.Do you think there is something rather horribly cynical about this
:22:37. > :22:40.that George Osborne is buying people's votes? No. Why? Because
:22:41. > :22:50.he's only doing what they should have done years ago. It's the grey
:22:51. > :22:58.vote isn't it. Even though I'm auburn. Steve Webb the Lib Dem MP
:22:59. > :23:04.and Pensions Minister is with me now. In you're splashed on the front
:23:05. > :23:08.page of tomorrow's Sun with you pictured in said Lambourghini.
:23:09. > :23:12.Whether by accident or design you have rather put your finger on the
:23:13. > :23:16.problem with the policy. Some people will cash in their chips, blow their
:23:17. > :23:21.cash and then end up reliant on the state won't they? With an average
:23:22. > :23:25.pension pot of ?25,000 I don't think many people will be buying sports
:23:26. > :23:30.cars. When your colleague said to me what about the Lambourghini set I
:23:31. > :23:33.fell into my own bad habit of answering the question I was asked.
:23:34. > :23:37.That is how I get on the front page of the Sun. The serious question is
:23:38. > :23:42.it is people's own money. We won't cast them adrift, we will guarantee
:23:43. > :23:45.them guidance, information, but ultimately making sure they have a
:23:46. > :23:47.decent state pension and if they want to spend the money sooner
:23:48. > :23:53.rather than later we are treating them as adults, I don't think it is
:23:54. > :23:56.among. It might be a Mondeo rather than Lambourghini, do you
:23:57. > :24:02.acknowledge there may be people who PLO it all very -- blow it all very
:24:03. > :24:07.publicly -- quickly, even though they might get advice? We have
:24:08. > :24:11.talked about people who have saved, put money by when they are working,
:24:12. > :24:15.they tend to be the more frugal and careful. If you blow the lot you do
:24:16. > :24:18.pay tax on it potentially at a higher rate. There are structures in
:24:19. > :24:22.place that encourage you to take the money for slowly. At the end of the
:24:23. > :24:25.day now we have put in place the state pension reform that I have
:24:26. > :24:32.driven through that make sure people have enough to live on. It won't be
:24:33. > :24:37.a king's ran some, but a bare minimum. Then they can answer
:24:38. > :24:41.questions about spending money early in the retirement and less later on,
:24:42. > :24:45.we should give them the choice. These are big changes starting
:24:46. > :24:53.almost immediately. Do you accept it is a massive experiment with
:24:54. > :24:56.people's financial security, you are guarnteeing the pension but it will
:24:57. > :25:00.only hold if not future Government will tear it up. It is possible your
:25:01. > :25:06.guarantee will disappear a few years down the line. We he know around the
:25:07. > :25:12.world not -- we know around the world not all countries do the
:25:13. > :25:16.annuity system, lots of people will still buy an annuity, we know today
:25:17. > :25:19.getting on for a quarter of people don't even take the tax-free lump
:25:20. > :25:23.sum they can take today. They spend their whole pension on buying an
:25:24. > :25:28.income. A lot of people will still buy a pension. What we are allowing
:25:29. > :25:31.is people to have different priorities, needs and expectations
:25:32. > :25:35.of their later life. This system allows people to choose what's right
:25:36. > :25:38.for them. Yes with guidance, we guarantee guidance free of charge,
:25:39. > :25:41.face-to-face if that is what people want. You have to remember the
:25:42. > :25:45.market has broken now, people are urging us to take action now. People
:25:46. > :25:48.are getting poor-value products, they are not getting a good deal,
:25:49. > :25:54.that is why we have to get on with it. Have you ever fancied splashing
:25:55. > :25:59.a bit of a cash on a Lambourghini: I have come down here in my two-door
:26:00. > :26:06.Corsa and I will be going home in it! With us now is John Bird the
:26:07. > :26:12.founder of the Big Issue, and City super woman Nicola Horlick. Do you
:26:13. > :26:17.think people will buy Lambourghini, course is as or whatever and blow
:26:18. > :26:22.their cash if they can get at it? A lot of people will blow their cash.
:26:23. > :26:25.I'm one of those people who believes you shouldn't give them the
:26:26. > :26:31.opportunity to blow their cash. What is so interesting, if you look at
:26:32. > :26:34.the last 100 years, that Governments have increatesingly got into --
:26:35. > :26:38.increasingly got into a situation where they have stopped people and
:26:39. > :26:42.made them save money. That is what the mentions, that is what you know
:26:43. > :26:46.the dole money is all about. It is about taking money, national
:26:47. > :26:49.insurance money, ever since the First World War there has been that.
:26:50. > :26:54.It has always been used on the basis that if you leave it to some people
:26:55. > :26:57.they won't save. I'm typical, if I didn't have to save I wouldn't save.
:26:58. > :27:02.And there's hundreds of thousands of people who will then become
:27:03. > :27:05.vulnerable and will then be open to all the loan sharks and all those
:27:06. > :27:11.other things. Nicola, do you think there is a miniboom in Lambourghini
:27:12. > :27:14.or retirees splashing their cash along the way? I don't think so, I
:27:15. > :27:18.think these are people already in the habit of saving, so they are
:27:19. > :27:23.likely to be responsible about it. I think the thing is that an annuity
:27:24. > :27:26.if you die the next day you lose all the money to the insurance company,
:27:27. > :27:29.it is not great. The other thing is that the annuity rates are so poor
:27:30. > :27:33.that they are generating very low amounts of income. So at least if
:27:34. > :27:38.you can get your hands on the money you can then put it into, it depends
:27:39. > :27:43.how much you have got, you could put it into a high-yielding unit trust,
:27:44. > :27:46.or other fixed-income type instruments or if you have a decent
:27:47. > :27:49.amount you might be able to buy a flat and let it out. You will get a
:27:50. > :27:53.much better income that way. What is so wrong with that, that sounds
:27:54. > :27:57.sensible, with people taking responsibility for themselves? There
:27:58. > :28:00.is this kind of idea that you shouldn't patronise people, and
:28:01. > :28:10.there is a kind of entry pat toe micing, which -- patronising. What
:28:11. > :28:13.we have to do in these inclement times we live in, we have to
:28:14. > :28:17.encourage people to save and keep their money and not splash out. If
:28:18. > :28:21.they did exactly what you did and moved it and were clever like you,
:28:22. > :28:24.who works in the City, great, but there is everybody giving you
:28:25. > :28:31.advice, everybody is after your money and in my opinion this is one
:28:32. > :28:35.of those kind of little pieces of ideology that is thrown in just
:28:36. > :28:38.around the election time, just when they are coming up to the election.
:28:39. > :28:42.Because what we are saying is all our pensioners are very sensible and
:28:43. > :28:47.clever and they are going to look after themselves. But it is actually
:28:48. > :28:55.not true. I know too many people who will take this money and urinate it
:28:56. > :29:00.up the wall. There are plenty of us, educated, smart people as well as
:29:01. > :29:04.many people who frankly don't really want to have to worry about where to
:29:05. > :29:07.put their cash and financial products are terribly complex.
:29:08. > :29:13.People are often ripped off by-products they don't understand.
:29:14. > :29:17.There is a problem. Recent research showed 17 million people had the
:29:18. > :29:21.numeracy levels of primary school children. You can still buy an
:29:22. > :29:26.annuity, nobody is saying it is illegal to buy an annuity. If you
:29:27. > :29:29.want to do that you can still do it. This is a very big move, this is a
:29:30. > :29:34.radical move to give millions of people access to their cash and many
:29:35. > :29:38.of them by not want to handle it? In my opinion it is overdue. I was
:29:39. > :29:42.always felt it was wrong to force people to buy an annuity, I feel it
:29:43. > :29:46.is the right thing to be done. In terms of numeracy and people's
:29:47. > :29:50.understanding of financial products. Obviously it is a relatively complex
:29:51. > :29:54.area, but the amount that is now written about financial services and
:29:55. > :29:58.written in layman's terms is so much greater than it was 30 or 40 years
:29:59. > :30:03.ago. On the whole people are much more aware of what's going on in
:30:04. > :30:08.financial circles. We don't learn about finances at school, we don't
:30:09. > :30:12.know how capitalism work, we don't know how insurances work. The
:30:13. > :30:17.largest amount of money in the world is pension funds, it is ?50
:30:18. > :30:20.trillion. We don't know anything about that. Therefore you may say
:30:21. > :30:25.that there is a lot more knowledge around but there is not any real
:30:26. > :30:31.knowledge given to us at school about how the system works.
:30:32. > :30:34.Can you be comfortable if it is based on the guarantee if you blow
:30:35. > :30:38.all of it you have a better state pension. That only lasts for as long
:30:39. > :30:43.as this current Government's promise lasts. There is no guarantee that 20
:30:44. > :30:46.years away there will be anything like the state provision there now?
:30:47. > :30:49.That is always the problem, Government change things and other
:30:50. > :30:53.Governments change them again. That is a problem. We generally need to
:30:54. > :30:56.save more. We need to be talking to people and saying, please save. Now
:30:57. > :31:00.it is very difficult obviously when we have been through a recession and
:31:01. > :31:03.people have been hard up for a long period of time. But we want people
:31:04. > :31:07.to save more. And I do actually think that people already have a
:31:08. > :31:11.pension pot and are savers and are responsible and are not going to buy
:31:12. > :31:19.a Lambourghini. Watch this space with interest. The changes begin
:31:20. > :31:25.next month. Whether it is the knitwear, the leather trousers or
:31:26. > :31:29.the moody camera work, we can't get enough of Scandinavian TV. Now an
:31:30. > :31:34.extraordinary memoir full of Nordic noir has become a literary
:31:35. > :31:40.sensation, the provocatively title, My Struggle, by the Norwegian writer
:31:41. > :31:44.is a blisteringly candid account of family life. But the author himself
:31:45. > :31:48.has been ostracised by some of his family. As the third volume of the
:31:49. > :32:02.saga is published here. We have been to Sweden for this exclusive
:32:03. > :32:06.interview with him. I want to be, you know, a good man, always wanted
:32:07. > :32:16.to be good, now I'm doing something that is absolutely not good. You
:32:17. > :32:26.can't say it is good, you know. How can I defend myself, can I say, my
:32:27. > :32:32.literature is more important than your life? This man dreamt of being
:32:33. > :32:39.a great writer and some say he is. He certainly is successful and
:32:40. > :32:44.becoming well known. He did it by writing about his life in an
:32:45. > :32:54.extraordinary way, a long hypnotic saga, three-and-a-half thousand
:32:55. > :33:01.pages, provocatively entitled My Struggle Min Kamf. It covered the
:33:02. > :33:07.banal, savouring a cup of tea. "For a while I picked up the teapot and
:33:08. > :33:14.poured, dark brown, the tea rose inside the white cup". To his
:33:15. > :33:18.feelings about his father. "I had long ed him dead, but the very
:33:19. > :33:25.second I realised his life could be over, I began to hope for it". I
:33:26. > :33:29.tried to write a novel for four or five days and I wrote every day,
:33:30. > :33:39.that is what I do. It is hard to fail every day. But I was looking
:33:40. > :33:46.for something, and at the end of was so frustrated I thought I would
:33:47. > :33:54.write it as it was. No tricks, no nothing. Just wanted to write it. I
:33:55. > :33:57.didn't think that anybody should read it or anything like that. I
:33:58. > :34:07.just wanted to tell a story, which is the story of my life, basically.
:34:08. > :34:12.He's married with four children, but his book isn't all happy families.
:34:13. > :34:21.There is the bullying controlling figure of his late father. For his
:34:22. > :34:26.part, he admits to resenting being a "new man", a hands-on dad while he
:34:27. > :34:31.was burning to write. It is a question of getting through the
:34:32. > :34:38.morning, the three hours of typers that have to be changed, breakfast
:34:39. > :34:41.that has to be served, teeth brushed and taking them to the nursery,
:34:42. > :34:49.whereupon now I have the next five hours of writing until the mandatory
:34:50. > :34:55.routines for the children resume. I have three kids and two in prams and
:34:56. > :35:00.with the shopping bags. Some Japanese were stopping and taking
:35:01. > :35:03.photographs of me, this was the Scandinavian "man", I have no
:35:04. > :35:06.problems with that. But I wanted to write about the differences between
:35:07. > :35:19.how you should behave, what you should do. This is Sweden's Baltic
:35:20. > :35:28.coast, but if it all looks a bit Robinson considers -- Crusoe, it is
:35:29. > :35:33.very apt, he's not a castaway, but he is a devisive figure. In his
:35:34. > :35:38.native Norway where his book first became a sensation, it sold half a
:35:39. > :35:41.million copies in a country of five million. But people he has written
:35:42. > :35:47.about have been bruised, he was disowned by some of his family after
:35:48. > :35:53.recording his father's death through alcoholism in unsparing detail.
:35:54. > :35:59.There has been all kinds of reactions from threats of you know
:36:00. > :36:02.suing me and wanting to stop the book until the people being
:36:03. > :36:09.flattered that they were in the book you know. I was kind of careless and
:36:10. > :36:19.ruthless and I just did it. It was almost unbearable realising this
:36:20. > :36:22.consequences of my writing. But still you know then you build up a
:36:23. > :36:34.defence for yourself and I said, you know, but it is my story, it is the
:36:35. > :36:38.story of my father. I returned the -- "I returned the glass to the
:36:39. > :36:42.table and stubbed out of my cigarettes, there was nothing left
:36:43. > :36:45.of my feelings than with those I have spent seven hours with. The
:36:46. > :36:50.whole crowd of them could have burned in hell for all I cared." The
:36:51. > :36:54.writer has been taken off a few Christmas card lists you suspect.
:36:55. > :36:59.After six volumes, he's used everything up. His demons and
:37:00. > :37:06.everyone else's, he's now writing a film script and some essays. His old
:37:07. > :37:16.life as an author a struggling author is over. I wanted it to end,
:37:17. > :37:21.I'm no longer an author. There is also the self-destructive thing
:37:22. > :37:28.involved in it. I didn't you know die of drinking, but I did this
:37:29. > :37:36.instead and I kind of gave up everything, in a way. More than
:37:37. > :37:40.4,000 women in London alone have been treated on the NHS for the
:37:41. > :37:44.after effects of the barbaric practice of female genital
:37:45. > :37:47.mutilation. But for millions of women around the world, help is
:37:48. > :37:54.almost impossible to find. So you would think the Government of a
:37:55. > :38:00.country as poor as Buki in, aFaso would welcome an American charity to
:38:01. > :38:05.build a hospital to treat victims. Think again, the hospital was due to
:38:06. > :38:17.open two weeks ago, but it is standing idle. Women queueing up for
:38:18. > :38:23.operations have been turned away. This village in western Bukino Faso,
:38:24. > :38:27.doesn't have electricity or running water. And yet a sexual revolution
:38:28. > :38:39.is taking place here. Up until recently every girl was genitally
:38:40. > :38:44.mutilated. TRANSLATION: I was five when I was cut, we were taken to an
:38:45. > :38:50.old lady, and she used the same knife on all of us. But a few years
:38:51. > :38:55.ago she tells me health workers came to explain that the reason that some
:38:56. > :38:59.girls died after the cutting and the problems with sex and childbirth
:39:00. > :39:07.were nothing to do with witchcraft, as they had all believed, but it was
:39:08. > :39:14.the cutting. She says the older women took some persuading,
:39:15. > :39:19.including her mother. TRANSLATION: We all sent our daughters to be cut,
:39:20. > :39:26.because we believed that without cutting they will never be married.
:39:27. > :39:33.And now she tells her mother she's going to have what was cut off
:39:34. > :39:44.restored. TRANSLATION: I would go if I could, but I'm too old. She tells
:39:45. > :39:52.the village women about the new hospital which is offering clitoris
:39:53. > :39:57.restoration. She says she has seen it with her own eyes and she's
:39:58. > :40:05.going. 26 of them say they want to go with her. The oldest is 46 and at
:40:06. > :40:09.24 Bebe is among the youngest. TRANSLATION: I'm going to get
:40:10. > :40:12.treated because I don't get any pleasure when I have sex, only
:40:13. > :40:37.Payne, now they are going to put that right. They set off in the heat
:40:38. > :40:48.and dust to the hospital that promises miracles. Meanwhile,
:40:49. > :40:52.surgeon, Marcy Bowers has arrived from Chicago, due to start operating
:40:53. > :40:58.tomorrow, it is her first time in Africa and today she visits Bobo's
:40:59. > :41:03.famous mosque. An internationally recognised expert on genital
:41:04. > :41:07.surgery, she has brought five American volunteer medics with her
:41:08. > :41:14.to help launch the hospital. This is a crime against humanity and FGM
:41:15. > :41:18.should be banned, no-one likes t the women don't like t the men don't
:41:19. > :41:21.like it, the people don't like it. I think it is time it came to
:41:22. > :41:25.answered. But we need to facilitate that by allowing the people that
:41:26. > :41:41.have been victimised to regain some sense of freedom. By now the village
:41:42. > :41:47.women have finally arrived at their destination. The hospital which cost
:41:48. > :41:58.?250,000 and eight years to build is an impressive site. But to their
:41:59. > :42:07.surprise it is closed. They organise a room in the hospital grounds where
:42:08. > :42:20.they can bed down and wait. The next morning the women welcome the local
:42:21. > :42:24.organiser. She tells them to wait outside while she shows me the
:42:25. > :42:27.hospital with all its new facilities which she says the Government have
:42:28. > :42:49.just announced they are not allowed to use. She's behind the charity
:42:50. > :42:54.Cliter Aid who raised the money for the hospital. They believe in UFOs
:42:55. > :43:00.and promoting the pursuit of pleasure as that the of the Railian
:43:01. > :43:03.movement. She believes the Government intervened because of the
:43:04. > :43:07.Railian connection. I'm really upset, I have to apologise to the
:43:08. > :43:15.women, they are so excited. It is about politics and I don't do
:43:16. > :43:21.politics. There are 130 million women out there who need our help,
:43:22. > :43:25.if somebody wants to build a hospital to them them you have to
:43:26. > :43:31.let them do it. She says the mainstream religions here fear that
:43:32. > :43:34.these women might, out of gratitude become Railians, as far as the women
:43:35. > :43:40.are concerned, all they want is the operation they have come for. All is
:43:41. > :43:44.not lost. Local doctors have rallied around and provided a clinic in the
:43:45. > :43:50.town where the operations can take place. The women from the village
:43:51. > :43:56.are brought here to await their turn. Bebe says she's not scared,
:43:57. > :44:02.she's just ang that she was cut in the first place. TRANSLATION: I was
:44:03. > :44:09.cut when I was four years old. It hurt then and it still hurts now. I
:44:10. > :44:18.am very angry about it. When my husband approaches I just don't want
:44:19. > :44:24.sex. Bebe is among the first. It is a simple procedure requiring a local
:44:25. > :44:29.anaesthetic and lasting about 45 minutes. Dr Boweres explains the
:44:30. > :44:36.women suffer different degrees of mutilation. No matter how severe,
:44:37. > :44:41.even with infibulation and deep three, we can always find the
:44:42. > :44:46.clitoris. Although the tip has been cut off, the rest lies beneath the
:44:47. > :44:50.surface, it is about finding it and bringing it up. You may prefer to
:44:51. > :44:56.turn away at this point. There is an area there missing, go ahead and cut
:44:57. > :45:05.this. There is the clitoris. This outcome should look amazingly
:45:06. > :45:10.normal. Like unaltered female anatomy. Cut and finished. By the
:45:11. > :45:16.end of the day the team have operated on eight women. They are
:45:17. > :45:21.doing what they came for. Things are going well at the clinic. The word
:45:22. > :45:26.has got around and the queue is growing as women fly in from Mali,
:45:27. > :45:34.Senegal and even Kenya for the operation. The team have operated on
:45:35. > :45:38.some 29 women and are on their way to achieving the most important
:45:39. > :45:43.purpose of their visit, to train local doctors to take over. Then the
:45:44. > :45:47.American surgeries are told that their permissions to operate in the
:45:48. > :45:53.country have been withdrawn. And the operations must stop. The minister
:45:54. > :45:57.of health now reveals the reason for their opposition. That medical
:45:58. > :46:01.organisations should be focussed on saving lives and not advertising
:46:02. > :46:08.their religion in an attempt to convert vulnerable people. And yet
:46:09. > :46:12.none of the doctors here are religious and I saw no attempt to
:46:13. > :46:18.convert the patients. We have operated on women from all over
:46:19. > :46:25.Africa, Sierra Leone, Kenya, Senegal, pretty much the cat is out
:46:26. > :46:29.of the bag and is alive and purring. As word gets around that the surgery
:46:30. > :46:32.is not only available but successful, and even successful with
:46:33. > :46:37.local doctors here in Africa, I think the movement is only going to
:46:38. > :46:40.continue. The women from the village who are still waiting at the
:46:41. > :46:45.hospital for the operation are devastated. They must continue
:46:46. > :46:49.living with their pain. What's happening here at the hospital is
:46:50. > :46:55.like a metaphor for the campaign against FGM in Africa and worldwide.
:46:56. > :47:08.Constantly thwarted by tradition, prejudice, religion and distrust. At
:47:09. > :47:14.the party planned for their last night at the hospital, there are
:47:15. > :47:17.mixed emotions. Bebe and 15 others from the village have been treated
:47:18. > :47:24.and are looking forward to their new lives. Adjara who did so much to
:47:25. > :47:36.bring the women here is among those who didn't. She has no idea if she
:47:37. > :47:40.ever will. That's almost all for tonight. In a
:47:41. > :47:44.month where we have all learned a great deal about how planes are
:47:45. > :47:48.tracked the National Air Traffic Service has released images showing
:47:49. > :47:50.exactly how the skies above us are monitored here in Europe. Take a
:47:51. > :48:31.look, good night. It will be a cold start to the day
:48:32. > :48:35.on Friday. Cold with a risk of some icy patches in Scotland and Northern
:48:36. > :48:40.Ireland, where we have got some pretty wintry showers from early on.
:48:41. > :48:42.A lot of sunshine for many. Into the afternoon there will be heavy
:48:43. > :48:46.showers developing and it is not just rain and sleet, there will be
:48:47. > :48:48.snow around in Northern Ireland, hail and