:00:00. > :00:13.There may have been new clues but after two weeks still no answers to
:00:14. > :00:17.what happened to flight MH370. The search efforts of more than 20
:00:18. > :00:22.countries have been in vain. Is it beginning to dawn on us that such a
:00:23. > :00:30.vast unexplored wilderness may never give up its secrets. We will put
:00:31. > :00:37.that to oceanographer, the grandson of Jaques Custo. The Internet was
:00:38. > :00:41.built after a nuclear war, why does the Turkish Prime Minister think he
:00:42. > :00:48.can ban Twitter? This protestor is not impressed. And mapping our
:00:49. > :00:53.genes, might lead to medical miracle, but could the power of this
:00:54. > :00:57.new science also provide dangerous temptations. It is now possible to
:00:58. > :01:03.take a blood sample from a pregnant mum, it could be in theory used for
:01:04. > :01:15.all the genetics of the foetus, will the child have head hair, blue eyes,
:01:16. > :01:20.those sorts of things. Good evening. Exactly two weeks ago the Boeing 777
:01:21. > :01:25.left Kuala Lumpur for Beijing, but days of a desperate search have
:01:26. > :01:29.revealed only a few traces from tracking devices and aerial photo
:01:30. > :01:33.that is may or may not reveal parts of the broken up plane floating in
:01:34. > :01:37.the water. Neither they nor any other pieces of evidence can now be
:01:38. > :01:43.found. The hunt is what's been described as
:01:44. > :01:47.a Goth-wrenching business, in one of the most inaccessible areas on
:01:48. > :01:52.earth. Leaving not just frustration for the rescue crews, but anger and
:01:53. > :01:57.fear for the families of those who had been on board.
:01:58. > :02:02.We're airport in Kuala Lumpur where the flight took off exactly two
:02:03. > :02:05.weeks ago. What happened today? When we spoke yesterday there was a real
:02:06. > :02:09.sense of optimisim, a real sense we could be seeing some sort of
:02:10. > :02:13.breakthrough, since then we have had five search aircraft go down to this
:02:14. > :02:17.area of the southern Indian Ocean where satellites had identified
:02:18. > :02:21.debris which may or may not come from this plane. They all turned
:02:22. > :02:24.having found absolutely nothing, despite the fact the weather
:02:25. > :02:28.conditions and visibility were absolutely perfect yesterday. So as
:02:29. > :02:33.soon as that happens you saw the atmosphere, you saw the language
:02:34. > :02:36.being used change here in Kuala Lumpur. We went back to where we
:02:37. > :02:39.were maybe two or three days ago. The Australian ministers and
:02:40. > :02:42.Government immediately started talking about how this debris could
:02:43. > :02:46.be something connected to a container ship, it is not
:02:47. > :02:49.necessarily anything to do with the flight itself. In the building
:02:50. > :02:53.behind me the Malaysian Defence Minister using language like "in
:02:54. > :02:57.this for the long haul". This immediate sense of optimisim, this
:02:58. > :03:02.kneejerk optimisim we saw after identifying the debris replaced with
:03:03. > :03:09.maybe a sense of realisim over the last 12 hours. The hopes must have
:03:10. > :03:12.turned again to complete despair for the families? Certainly for the
:03:13. > :03:17.families. I think the main thing for the families is the frustration at
:03:18. > :03:20.this changing story. So about a week ago the Malaysian Prime Minister
:03:21. > :03:24.behind me gave a key speech where he gave the distinct impression this
:03:25. > :03:28.was some sort of deliberate act, perhaps pilot suicide, perhaps some
:03:29. > :03:30.sort of form of hijacking, a terrorist incident. Now that
:03:31. > :03:34.narrative has really changed throughout the week, we're now back
:03:35. > :03:37.to a situation where people think this could be some sort of accident.
:03:38. > :03:43.A cockpit fire, something like that. The fact this story, this narrative
:03:44. > :03:45.keeps changing is the main reason the families feel so confused and
:03:46. > :03:53.frustrated at the moment. And briefly, any sense of what happens
:03:54. > :03:57.nex This search operation today is entering what the Government are
:03:58. > :04:01.calling a new phase, they will have naval vessels there for the first
:04:02. > :04:04.time. The Australian Navy will arrive three or four Chinese
:04:05. > :04:09.warships will arrive later. They will bring with them some new
:04:10. > :04:14.advanced search capabilities that aren't available from the air. The
:04:15. > :04:17.next 12-24 hours could be crucial. Make no mistake, everyone will say
:04:18. > :04:20.this will be a huge task, this might not be something that can be found
:04:21. > :04:25.in the next week even. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. As
:04:26. > :04:32.Jim was suggesting the oceans are probably the last real wilderness on
:04:33. > :04:37.earth. The hunt for MH370, fruitless to this point, is a pretty humbling
:04:38. > :04:41.reminder about how much we don't know about the sea. In the very week
:04:42. > :04:44.that scientists reveal startling revelation about the origins of the
:04:45. > :04:50.universe. In the second we will talk to the grandson of one of the most
:04:51. > :04:54.famous marine adventurers of all time, an ocean explorer himself.
:04:55. > :05:02.What faces those still hunting for the plane? Investigators now suspect
:05:03. > :05:07.that Malaysia airlines flight MH370 had enough fuel to continue flying
:05:08. > :05:12.four hours to the other sinnedian ocean. -- southern Indian Ocean. So
:05:13. > :05:16.the search is now in an area of 14,000 square miles. It is roughly
:05:17. > :05:21.1,500 miles off the coast of south-west Australia. That's the
:05:22. > :05:26.equivalent of London to Athens. Even the Australian Navy has no radar
:05:27. > :05:31.coverage there. Satellite images had revealed some possible debris. But
:05:32. > :05:35.after a second day of searching nothing has been found. That could
:05:36. > :05:40.be because the southern Indian Ocean is one of the most remote places on
:05:41. > :05:46.earth. And the seas there, some of the deepest, the average depth being
:05:47. > :05:51.nearly 12,000 feet. Less than 5% of the oceans on earth have been
:05:52. > :05:57.explored, and no-one has any real idea what lies beneath the waves. It
:05:58. > :06:03.is an enormous and unexplored wilderness. At its lowest point the
:06:04. > :06:10.sea bed is nearly 36,000 feet below the surface. A depth greater even
:06:11. > :06:14.than the height of Mount Everest. We're joined by our guest from New
:06:15. > :06:18.York. Thank you very much for being with us this evening. It seems that
:06:19. > :06:24.the authorities have almost been surprised by how difficult this is?
:06:25. > :06:29.Well Laura it may be surprising to some folks, but to my family and
:06:30. > :06:34.other ocean explorers, it is not, the oceans are an extraordinarily
:06:35. > :06:39.large complex environment. We are talking about three. Four billion
:06:40. > :06:43.cubic kilometres of space. As you mentioned earlier, the depths are
:06:44. > :06:49.almost 13,000 feet in that area, on average. And of course the
:06:50. > :06:54.topography is very complex with valleys and mountains and all the
:06:55. > :06:58.currents and torbity at the surface. You have explored the seas in this
:06:59. > :07:02.area where the search is taking place, tell us what it is really
:07:03. > :07:09.like. What are they up against? Well, it is you know, you are
:07:10. > :07:13.basically up against the 28 million square miles of space and of course
:07:14. > :07:17.the depth. Very, very strong currents, you have got upwellings
:07:18. > :07:21.and downdrafts and of course the weather patterns in the general area
:07:22. > :07:28.are always unpredictable and you have got, of course, the distance
:07:29. > :07:31.factor from land which is a monumental task to be able to county
:07:32. > :07:36.councillor when you are looking for something that is so unbelievably
:07:37. > :07:41.small. And we're also putting sub position on top of they are --
:07:42. > :07:45.supposition on top of theory in an environment that is just unknown. It
:07:46. > :07:50.is unknown as you suggest. Are seas the last wilderness then? We have
:07:51. > :07:54.explored less than 5% of our ocean in all of modern day ocean
:07:55. > :07:59.exploration. That leaves a lot to be discovered. And unfortunately it is
:08:00. > :08:03.being countered by decades of underfunding and budget cuts
:08:04. > :08:09.throughout the world. When we look at images of the vast areas
:08:10. > :08:15.unexplored, this wilderness which we don't really understand yet, should
:08:16. > :08:19.we just accept that it is beyond us really to ever know what is going
:08:20. > :08:23.on? Absolutely not. I think with enough time, resources and
:08:24. > :08:28.perseverance we can learn a lot more about the oceans. We spend a
:08:29. > :08:32.hundred-times more in space exploration than we do in our very
:08:33. > :08:38.own ocean system which is the life support we all depend on. In cases
:08:39. > :08:42.like this on more tragic topics unfortunately we just don't have
:08:43. > :08:46.enough tools and resources to be able to do a thorough search in
:08:47. > :08:51.places like this. Why is that though do you think, as you suggest we
:08:52. > :08:57.spend billions more on space exploration it is a very different
:08:58. > :09:05.appeal for people what do you think that is about? Stars make us dream.
:09:06. > :09:09.We love oceans to go for vacations, tropical destinations, that sort
:09:10. > :09:13.thing. But when we talk about exploration and adventure, many
:09:14. > :09:18.people look up instead of down. That said, there are plenty of adventures
:09:19. > :09:23.below that blue carpet. Unfortunately there are also some
:09:24. > :09:27.discoveries we need to make for tragic cases such as this. In your
:09:28. > :09:34.experience, your long experience of exploring the seas do you think that
:09:35. > :09:39.we should still have hope in this particular case? The human spirit is
:09:40. > :09:42.a valiant one and we owe it to of course the families and friends of
:09:43. > :09:46.those loved ones that have disappeared, whether that plane
:09:47. > :09:51.ended up landing on land or in the ocean to find out what that
:09:52. > :09:55.conclusion is. And in any event with enough time, with enough resources
:09:56. > :09:58.with enough people power and of course enough funding and
:09:59. > :10:02.perseverance we would be able to find a man made object in the
:10:03. > :10:07.oceans. That said, it has been camouflaged by all the parameters I
:10:08. > :10:13.mentioned before, and the fact that we dump over one million pounds of
:10:14. > :10:17.plastics and other debris in our oceans every hour. That just
:10:18. > :10:18.confuses things like radar and sonar.
:10:19. > :10:22.Thank you very much indeed for joining us and good luck with your
:10:23. > :10:26.next adventure under the seas, thank you.
:10:27. > :10:31.Now, the NHS is already having trouble persuading us that sharing
:10:32. > :10:35.our basic medical records is tolerable in the pursuit of the
:10:36. > :10:39.greater good. Imagine then the rumpus if technology allowed the
:10:40. > :10:45.medical profession to track and potentionally share your complete
:10:46. > :10:49.genetic map? Understanding and monitoring the genome could create
:10:50. > :10:53.huge leaps towards infinitely more effective personalised medicine as
:10:54. > :10:58.it is known. Do we want to live in a world where doctors know way before
:10:59. > :11:11.we can what might happen next to our bodies? Here is the former senior
:11:12. > :11:16.policy adviser to David Cameron. Our genome is what makes us all unique.
:11:17. > :11:22.It is our complete genetic code. Every single protein, every cell in
:11:23. > :11:28.our body is programmed by our genes. It took billions of pounds to map
:11:29. > :11:37.the first human genome, soon we will map anyone's genome for just a few
:11:38. > :11:42.hundred. This is the Holy Grail of modern medicine, an era of
:11:43. > :11:46.individual, personalised treatments, based on your genetic code. The
:11:47. > :11:53.possibility of not just treatment but cures for some of our deadliest
:11:54. > :12:03.diseases. That such a leap forward may come at a price. The history of
:12:04. > :12:08.medicine is one of blanket treatment for disease across whole
:12:09. > :12:15.populations. An aproper now seen as inefficient and ineffective. The
:12:16. > :12:18.advent of quick, cheap, genetic sequencing, will mean the treatment
:12:19. > :12:24.of disease will be targeted to individuals. One of the first
:12:25. > :12:30.examples of personalised medicine is for a cancer called chronic myeloid
:12:31. > :12:36.leukaemia that develops in people with a specific genetic defect. The
:12:37. > :12:39.drug was created to treat the defect. That was a disease that
:12:40. > :12:43.killed 100% of people who had the disease. With the introduction of
:12:44. > :12:50.the drug genetically targeted it went almost immediately to 95% of
:12:51. > :12:54.people with that disease got complete remissions. That is the
:12:55. > :12:57.kind of results you can get from targeting the therapies, and
:12:58. > :13:05.understanding and underping the mechanism of disease and changing
:13:06. > :13:11.the whole way we do medicine. Some predict that soon we will all be
:13:12. > :13:14.encouraged to have our genome sequenced. It may be possible one
:13:15. > :13:22.way for doctors to start treating us even before we begin to feel ill.
:13:23. > :13:28.Professor Sir John Bell is one of the most important voices in world
:13:29. > :13:32.genetics. He's also the Government's chief adviser on health research. He
:13:33. > :13:35.says even at the earliest stages of life our propensity for certain
:13:36. > :13:40.conditions can be identified. As can many other things that make us
:13:41. > :13:46.human. P now possible to take a blood sample from a pregnant mum to
:13:47. > :13:50.reassemble the genome of the foetus. You can use it for screening for
:13:51. > :13:57.conditions like downsyndrome, it could be in theory used for Alloa
:13:58. > :14:02.the genetics of the foetus, will they have red hair, blue eyes, those
:14:03. > :14:07.sorts of things. What you are saying is that genetic selection before a
:14:08. > :14:11.child is born may well become more likely? ? I think that is
:14:12. > :14:19.challenging for society to deal with. Society will want to govern
:14:20. > :14:28.what it views to be an acceptable process of engineering one's
:14:29. > :14:35.children, shall we say. The ethical dilemmas do not end at genetic
:14:36. > :14:38.selection. How will it affect your behaviour if you know you are likely
:14:39. > :14:42.to get cancer or heart disease? Will we have to legislate to stop
:14:43. > :14:48.employers or insurers from discriminating on that basis? And
:14:49. > :14:55.what about privacy? Who will have access to our genome? In the genetic
:14:56. > :15:02.age we will be logged, monitored and analysed, right down to the very
:15:03. > :15:08.fabric of our DNA. Our genetic strengths and weaknesses mapped out
:15:09. > :15:13.in digital form. But how ready are we to manage that information? How
:15:14. > :15:18.ready are we to have all our body's secrets stored on file? The genetic
:15:19. > :15:23.data we are talking about would be available for people to use to
:15:24. > :15:27.develop new approaches to diagnosis and therapy. Which I think is in
:15:28. > :15:30.everybody's interests. The digital is allowing us to do that. There is
:15:31. > :15:35.an enormous amount of information available that could actually lead
:15:36. > :15:38.to your identification and people knowing things about you that you
:15:39. > :15:41.would prefer them not to know about you as a person. I think the risks
:15:42. > :15:53.to that properly managed are extremely small. The right to
:15:54. > :15:56.digital privacy will become a key battle ground as our health service
:15:57. > :16:00.becomes more exact and more data driven. But it is the promise of
:16:01. > :16:04.targeting resources at a microlevel that will lead to a dramatic change
:16:05. > :16:10.in the relationship between patient and doctor, the individual and the
:16:11. > :16:14.state. All that moves this health care system from a health care
:16:15. > :16:19.system which was wholly appropriate for the 1950s and 1960s, but which
:16:20. > :16:23.now has to move to another paradigm. And I think that individual
:16:24. > :16:31.ownership of their health care issues will be driven by the genetic
:16:32. > :16:35.revolution. The potential benefits of the genetic age are vast. So too
:16:36. > :16:43.are the ethical issues that lie ahead. If we can set aside our
:16:44. > :16:51.preconceptions about how our health system should work, we will unlock a
:16:52. > :16:57.new era of personalised medicine. Our guests are in the studio, we
:16:58. > :17:01.have the chair of the Nuffield Council on bio-ethics with us as
:17:02. > :17:04.well as or reporter. This sounds like something of a huge opportunity
:17:05. > :17:09.but also huge risk. The authorities don't exactly have a great track
:17:10. > :17:15.record of looking after our data, so why do you expect the public to be
:17:16. > :17:19.happy for medics and then the state and drug companies to have access to
:17:20. > :17:22.the most intensely personal data? I think genetic information is really
:17:23. > :17:27.interesting. In a sense it is of course it is going to unleash great
:17:28. > :17:31.benefits, personalised medicine, preventive treatments and so on. But
:17:32. > :17:33.at the same time it is not categorically different to other
:17:34. > :17:38.types of health information. If someone was to take my blood sample
:17:39. > :17:42.they would be able to tell whether I have been drinking today, whether
:17:43. > :17:46.I'm on drugs. But actually that's, you couldn't get that information
:17:47. > :17:50.from my genome. But the genome is our complete blueprint. It is
:17:51. > :17:54.everything, it's not just your eye colour or your hair colour it is the
:17:55. > :17:57.whole map. It is different isn't it? So whether or not you are A positive
:17:58. > :18:02.or if you have had a glass of wine when you come to the studio? When
:18:03. > :18:06.the human genome was first sequenced, a lot of people thought
:18:07. > :18:10.it would immediately yield lots of incredible insights. We did learn a
:18:11. > :18:16.lot. But what scientists are increasingly of the view is that we
:18:17. > :18:20.need lots of genomes in a big database to find out linkages and
:18:21. > :18:25.patterns and that's really why people are talking about a new type
:18:26. > :18:28.of social contract where people contribute their health information
:18:29. > :18:32.in order to get back greater insights and new treatments. I think
:18:33. > :18:36.that is a really interesting settlement for the 21st century.
:18:37. > :18:40.Should we be that relaxed about a settlement where we give everything.
:18:41. > :18:44.Do you have concerns about this idea? I don't think we should be
:18:45. > :18:47.frightened of a new social contract. This is all about how we get the
:18:48. > :18:52.gains out of the potential and we don't see the downside? This isn't
:18:53. > :18:57.entirely new as an idea, if you take family history you will find out how
:18:58. > :19:00.likely someone is to be affected by an inherited condition. It is doing
:19:01. > :19:05.it no better and doing it slightly more technically. But the key is, is
:19:06. > :19:08.it worth our while sharing this information with each other to get
:19:09. > :19:12.the gain that will come from the system. It probably is, as long as
:19:13. > :19:16.we have the safeguards in place. What safeguards could there be, this
:19:17. > :19:18.kind of information could lead us to gender selection, it could give
:19:19. > :19:22.information to employers about potential medical conditions. How do
:19:23. > :19:27.you safeguard this really precious stuff? I think there are probably
:19:28. > :19:31.two really important things to think about. One is about how it is stored
:19:32. > :19:35.and looked after, how you decide what conditions people have to meet
:19:36. > :19:40.in order to get access to it. But the other is what we do about misuse
:19:41. > :19:46.of the information. So the n Genetics Commission argued for an
:19:47. > :19:52.offence of DNA theft. So if you took someone's DNA and tested it you
:19:53. > :19:55.would be penalised for that. There was also keenness to have rules
:19:56. > :19:59.against discrimination. It addresses that. How do you get people to trust
:20:00. > :20:02.that. It is almost every day we hear stories of child benefit data being
:20:03. > :20:08.lost, or even a supermarket this week lost lots of their employ
:20:09. > :20:14.years' bank details? There is an incredible place outside Stockport
:20:15. > :20:19.in man Chesterer, it is the UK Bio Bank, they have 5,000 people's blood
:20:20. > :20:23.samples and urine samples and health information, all of that the blood
:20:24. > :20:26.samples are only being used for genetic research. Those 200,000
:20:27. > :20:31.people voluntarily gave up that information. Voluntarily they did.
:20:32. > :20:34.For this social contract you are proposing, presumably we have all
:20:35. > :20:38.got to buy up to that for it to work haven't we? Hundreds of thousands of
:20:39. > :20:44.people do, but all the evidence is when people have been asked are you
:20:45. > :20:49.willing to contribute your health information to improve the common
:20:50. > :20:51.good, people do that. The Wellcome Trust have been doing this with
:20:52. > :20:56.cancer patients for many years. I think they have got something like a
:20:57. > :21:01.99% approval rate. Isn't this also really about giving that data, in
:21:02. > :21:03.order to make scientific advances it has to be given to drug companies.
:21:04. > :21:06.This is also about potential business and profit. Do you expect
:21:07. > :21:11.people to feel comfortable about that. Give me your DNA so that huge
:21:12. > :21:14.companies like Glaxo can make money out of it? We do know that people
:21:15. > :21:19.are suspicious, but they also make that deal all the time with their
:21:20. > :21:22.banks, with their supermarkets, it is about is it worth. This is not
:21:23. > :21:27.about a loyalty card, it is different isn't it? Well your genome
:21:28. > :21:33.probably is pretty hard to read. And it is personal to me, but most of it
:21:34. > :21:37.is also common to my family, it is common to all human beings, it is
:21:38. > :21:41.even common to primates. So actually you have to be pretty skilled at
:21:42. > :21:44.interpreting this to be able to work out something that will track back
:21:45. > :21:49.to me. I think we can control the uses of it, much more than you might
:21:50. > :21:53.imagine. ??FORCEDWHI Thank you very much indeed. I'm assuming you will
:21:54. > :21:57.happy sign up to it and you can share it if and when it actually
:21:58. > :22:02.happens. Thanks for coming in. Even 140 little characters can be
:22:03. > :22:06.hard to ignore. The Turkish Prime Minister certainly failed to turn a
:22:07. > :22:10.blind eye today after a rush of messages on Twitter mentioning his
:22:11. > :22:14.links to a corruption investigation. Allegations he denies. But his
:22:15. > :22:19.rather clumsy attempts to block the Internet service condemned by other
:22:20. > :22:23.countries backfired. With web users almost immediately finding their way
:22:24. > :22:28.round it. Social media can be a powerful weapon, but is it strong
:22:29. > :22:32.enough to resist state censorship, maybe the reality of the internet is
:22:33. > :22:36.people with decent technical knowledge will eventually have the
:22:37. > :22:45.last word. Especially our technology editor. Authorisertarian --
:22:46. > :22:53.authoritarian regimes haven't had an easy relationship with technology.
:22:54. > :22:57.To trace material back to authors, Cold War Governments took samples
:22:58. > :23:01.from every typewriter, these days it is not so easy to keep a lid on
:23:02. > :23:05.criticism. In a rally last night the Turkish prep, Recep Tayyip Erdogan,
:23:06. > :23:09.followed up new laws that allow the blocking of websites with a promise
:23:10. > :23:15.to destroy social media too. We now have a court order, he said, we will
:23:16. > :23:20.eradicate Twitter, I don't care what the international community says,
:23:21. > :23:32.everyone will witness the power of the Turkish Republican lick state.
:23:33. > :23:37.-- Turkish Republic state. Turk go to the polls in 11 days and the
:23:38. > :23:44.ruling party have been pummelled by corruption scandals that look set to
:23:45. > :23:56.increase. A lot of videos proving that corruption indeed took place in
:23:57. > :24:01.turkey Turkey. And it is it is on Twitter and that is where millions
:24:02. > :24:07.of Turkish internet users converse, the Government might want to block
:24:08. > :24:12.the Twitter because of this. The Turkish President says the ban is
:24:13. > :24:15.unacceptable. The fact that he did so on Twitter suggests the ban is
:24:16. > :24:22.not working. We have already seen since the ban was introduced a big
:24:23. > :24:29.uptake in the use of Twitter. There are work arounds including the
:24:30. > :24:37.ability to use and send or send tweets on SMS. There are other
:24:38. > :24:44.applications and we saw a similar situation in Turkey a few years
:24:45. > :24:49.back, with it blocked, tube. At the end it was blocked YouTube was the
:24:50. > :24:53.eighth-most visited site in Turkey. They are not alone, Russian
:24:54. > :24:58.fireworks tonight to celebrate the annexation of Crimea, last week the
:24:59. > :25:00.Russian authorities ordered internet service providers there to block
:25:01. > :25:05.access to several opposition websites, after their critical
:25:06. > :25:09.coverage of Ukraine offensive. These sites contain incitement to illegal
:25:10. > :25:13.activity and participation in public events held in violation of the
:25:14. > :25:25.established order said the rather chilling official notice. Much of
:25:26. > :25:31.the censorship is ineffective, but there is one big exception. The
:25:32. > :25:34.Great Firewall of China was basically brought up in order to
:25:35. > :25:38.break a region of the internet off, the Chinese internet off and give
:25:39. > :25:41.the Chinese state the capacity to reprogramme it along Chinese lines.
:25:42. > :25:45.That is what they have done. That is the only way that continuous
:25:46. > :25:49.constant and fundamental control of the internet is the only way in
:25:50. > :25:53.which it can possibly be done. And only when you are a state such as
:25:54. > :25:59.China with the resources to employ tens of hundreds of thousands of
:26:00. > :26:03.censures to continuously control social media, and lots of other
:26:04. > :26:07.social media sites used in China in order to manually remove messages
:26:08. > :26:12.which are considered unpalatable. There is then a constant tension, a
:26:13. > :26:15.battle between those who want to use technology to dissent and protest,
:26:16. > :26:22.and those who want to shut down debate. It is a battle being fought
:26:23. > :26:27.every day. With us tonight to discuss Turkey's Twitter ban is an
:26:28. > :26:34.author with one. Five million followers on Twitter. From the
:26:35. > :26:38.University of North Carolina, a Professor.
:26:39. > :26:46.First to you, why did the Turkish Government even try to do this? They
:26:47. > :26:51.have been completely outplayed? My sense is they would like Twitter to
:26:52. > :26:55.open offices in Turkey and start responding to court orders and other
:26:56. > :27:00.Government requests. Facebook and YouTube both have offices in Turkey,
:27:01. > :27:04.in fact the YouTube ban finally ended when Google agreed to open
:27:05. > :27:09.offices in Turkey. I see this as a salvo to try to taint Twitter which
:27:10. > :27:11.until now has been an untamed platform as far as the Government is
:27:12. > :27:17.concerned. A direct threat to the company then to be subject to our
:27:18. > :27:26.rules or get out? That's exactly right. Because of YouTube ban Turk
:27:27. > :27:30.issuesers are very practised at Sir come circumventing it, the Prime
:27:31. > :27:33.Minister said what's the big deal, he got around it. There are more
:27:34. > :27:38.tweets coming from Turkey. The difference between the YouTube
:27:39. > :27:43.banner rah and now, there was no big social media-fuelled threat from
:27:44. > :27:47.YouTube to the Government. Now there is from Twitter, Facebook, YouTube
:27:48. > :27:50.and all the social media platforms. Aren't you worried that Turkey is
:27:51. > :27:54.trying to use the tools you might expect from a really authoritarian
:27:55. > :28:00.Government, like China for example? Yeah, I find it very worrying. Quite
:28:01. > :28:06.alarming indeed. We weren't expecting this ban. I find it
:28:07. > :28:09.unacceptable. I think it is violating our universal fundamental
:28:10. > :28:13.right of freedom of speech. So starting down a road of censorship,
:28:14. > :28:16.is this what happens now in a very powerful country where dramatic
:28:17. > :28:20.things are happening, social media is part of the battle ground? Yes,
:28:21. > :28:28.the social media has become quite politic sized -- politicised and
:28:29. > :28:32.polarised in Turkey. It has a very large population of young people,
:28:33. > :28:37.that number is huge, but also I think particularly in the last years
:28:38. > :28:42.n the most recent years as the media diversity visibly shrank in Turkey,
:28:43. > :28:46.more and more people started to go on the social media to find
:28:47. > :28:50.alternative sources of information, sometimes misinformation as well.
:28:51. > :28:55.The social media has become increasingly politicised in Turkey
:28:56. > :28:59.over the last years. But in America isn't there always a danger that
:29:00. > :29:03.social media is overhyped. We have seen other events, particularly in
:29:04. > :29:08.the Arab countries where it was a big part of protests but it didn't
:29:09. > :29:12.change much? Well you have to look at what social media is good at and
:29:13. > :29:19.what social media may not be so good at. It is spectacular for busting
:29:20. > :29:23.open censorship, it is great for creating a challenge in the public
:29:24. > :29:31.sphere. What was just said about social media a politicised space,
:29:32. > :29:34.where censorship is broken and information is passed. Elderly women
:29:35. > :29:39.were begging their children to teach them how to use Twitter so they
:29:40. > :29:43.could finally connect and learn and get together. As you point out what
:29:44. > :29:48.we have also seen is it doesn't necessarily help create the kind of
:29:49. > :29:53.structures that allow the opposition to strategyise to engage with
:29:54. > :29:57.politics and electoral politics in particular. This is partly because
:29:58. > :30:01.this is how people are using it at the moment. So it creates these
:30:02. > :30:08.grounds in which there is a strong challenge and the Government's 's
:30:09. > :30:11.can't rule as they did before. People can't use it to create the
:30:12. > :30:14.grounds with which they can carry forward the impact. So we have a
:30:15. > :30:18.situation that is really volatile. Governments can't rule the way they
:30:19. > :30:22.did before, the old methods of control don't work. But the new ways
:30:23. > :30:27.of challenging haven't completely matured either, there is this
:30:28. > :30:30.dangerous middle ground where we see around the world Government after
:30:31. > :30:32.Government shaking and then resorting to massive repression as
:30:33. > :30:38.we have seen in the case of Egypt and of course that always works.
:30:39. > :30:43.Thank you. In an element in way a hashtag doesn't create lasting
:30:44. > :30:48.revolution exactly as was said? Yes, as was said there are two sides,
:30:49. > :30:56.right, on the one hand these bans clearly don't work, since the ban
:30:57. > :31:01.went into effect overnight there has been an increase, 138% increase in
:31:02. > :31:05.Turkish tweets posted, on an average day we have one. Eight million
:31:06. > :31:11.tweets now it is over two million tweets. There are over 12 million
:31:12. > :31:17.Twitter users, Turkey-based, it is really big in Turkey. On the other
:31:18. > :31:21.hand clearly, all people voiced and expressed their rage, resentment and
:31:22. > :31:25.anger, there isn't a structure, so we don't know which way it will go.
:31:26. > :31:32.There is a lot of misinformation and slander as well. Thank you very
:31:33. > :31:36.much. That's almost all. But today Kate Bush announced that she will be
:31:37. > :31:42.performing live once again, 35 years after her last show at the
:31:43. > :31:46.Hammersmith Odeon in 1979. It will be at the same venue no less. In
:31:47. > :31:52.case you can't wait until then, here is a quick reminder of her very
:31:53. > :31:55.first appearance on Top Of The Pops. Good night.
:31:56. > :32:05.# Bad dreams # In the night
:32:06. > :32:06.# Told me I was going to lose the fight
:32:07. > :32:11.# Heathcliff # It's me a Katy
:32:12. > :32:15.# I've come home # So cold
:32:16. > :32:17.# Let me in at your # Window
:32:18. > :32:21.# Heathcliff # It's me a Katy
:32:22. > :32:22.# I've