:00:07. > :00:11.the Culture Secretary has been living has been getting thicker.
:00:12. > :00:18.She's not resigned yet, or been sacked, yet, but the angry voices
:00:19. > :00:23.are getting louder. Those in favour of fuller accountability say there
:00:24. > :00:28.is a blindingly obvious independent body staring them in the fashion it
:00:29. > :00:31.is called "the public". How is it playing out in Maria Miller's
:00:32. > :00:38.constituency, her cabinet colleague has come here to defend her.
:00:39. > :00:43.Military bands, Household Cavalry and a fly-past of planes in tight
:00:44. > :00:47.formation over Windsor Castle. As a former commander of the IRA explains
:00:48. > :00:53.why he so admired the Queen of England. I was tremenduously
:00:54. > :00:58.impressed, tremenduously impressed that Queen Elizabeth was prepared to
:00:59. > :01:02.stand in solemn commemoration for those people who fought against
:01:03. > :01:06.British rule in Ireland. And that she was prepared to honour the Irish
:01:07. > :01:12.language in the way she did. We report from Japan on how the micing
:01:13. > :01:18.power of minia is letting the Prime Minister drive the -- the rising
:01:19. > :01:24.power of China is letting the Prime Minister drive away business. He
:01:25. > :01:35.feels by accepting the convention history Japan will be emasculated
:01:36. > :01:42.and vulnerable to Chinese attacks. Basic stoke Tourist Board is
:01:43. > :01:45.doubtless bracing itself after the town's MP, Maria Miller, also the
:01:46. > :01:49.Culture Secretary, called for the focus to be on the town and not her.
:01:50. > :01:53.It wasn't necessarily her fault that her fellow MPs let her off with the
:01:54. > :01:56.fraction of the penalty it had been recommended she pay for abuse of the
:01:57. > :02:01.expenses system, but it was definitely her doing that she took
:02:02. > :02:05.only 32 seconds to make an apology for what she had done. Increasing
:02:06. > :02:09.numbers of fellow MPs now say she should resign her post. The key
:02:10. > :02:13.decision may not be her's at all, but the Prime Minister's. At what
:02:14. > :02:19.point is it more damaging to keep her than to ditch her? What's all
:02:20. > :02:27.this doing to public trust in politics and politicians? What do
:02:28. > :02:31.they think in Basingstoke? Ever get the sense that people wished you
:02:32. > :02:35.would go away, the Basingstoke Conservative club posts it is open
:02:36. > :02:40.seven days a week. Today, understandably enough they had
:02:41. > :02:45.enough of people like me. The other side of town, a hive of activity, or
:02:46. > :02:49.as much of one you can have with a bunch of chairs, the Labour Club was
:02:50. > :02:57.getting ready to welcome John Mann, the man who helped kick-start the
:02:58. > :03:03.whole McMillan Miller investigation. She told the Basingstoke Gazette she
:03:04. > :03:08.was devastated. The questions over the last 48 hours have raged around
:03:09. > :03:13.how MPs police themselves? Who scrutinises them? Are the bodies
:03:14. > :03:16.independent enough? What of the Standards Committee, who should have
:03:17. > :03:22.the vote there? Today we heard from the lay, nonvoting members of that
:03:23. > :03:26.committee, their own report suggests undisguised dismay at the hypocrisy
:03:27. > :03:30.they found. Ed Miliband joined the clamour of voices calling for a new
:03:31. > :03:34.system. We need to look at reform in this area, we have reformed
:03:35. > :03:38.ex-tenses and that was the right thing to do, with an independent
:03:39. > :03:41.body overseeing it. This is part of the system that hasn't been properly
:03:42. > :03:45.looked at or reformed, we need to look again. Those in favour of full
:03:46. > :03:48.accountability say there is a blindingly obvious independent body
:03:49. > :03:56.just staring them in the face, it is called "the public "requests, --
:03:57. > :04:00."the public", the electorate, they should be allowed to hold MPs to
:04:01. > :04:06.account at any part in the parliamentary cycle. It probably
:04:07. > :04:10.sounds like a no-brainer. We should have the power to do something about
:04:11. > :04:15.it, if it was one of us we would be banged up. Do you think the public,
:04:16. > :04:19.the voters have enough power to get rid of an MP if you want to? The
:04:20. > :04:25.only way to get that is in the constituency. I think she is doing
:04:26. > :04:30.fair job in Basingstoke, but not for the country. Paul Harvey wants to be
:04:31. > :04:34.Labour's next MP here, he will take on Maria Miller's 13,000-strong
:04:35. > :04:38.majority in 2015. All the parties need to get round the table and have
:04:39. > :04:41.a conversation about how do we repair the trust between Members of
:04:42. > :04:45.Parliament and the communities they represent. And that starts by giving
:04:46. > :04:50.power to the people to recall their MPs if they have behaved as badly
:04:51. > :04:54.and as disgracefully as Maria has done in the eyes of her
:04:55. > :04:57.constituents. Do you worry you would get the kangaroo court syndrome. We
:04:58. > :05:01.were speaking to people earlier who said she should go to prison. If
:05:02. > :05:04.that's what people think, even though they are wrong about the
:05:05. > :05:07.legality of what she has done, then anything could happen? But democracy
:05:08. > :05:11.needs to be trusted. You need to have trust in the electorate, if the
:05:12. > :05:13.electorate are given the power of recall, then you are trusting them
:05:14. > :05:20.to make a judgment on their local member of parliament. After the
:05:21. > :05:24.expenses of 2009, crucially before the last election, the three main
:05:25. > :05:27.parties all promised to clean up politics, offering the biggest
:05:28. > :05:32.shake-up to democracy for 178 years. The idea was to offer constituents
:05:33. > :05:35.the chance to recall their MPs, that is remove them through a
:05:36. > :05:43.by-election, if there was enough support. That was nearly five years
:05:44. > :05:52.ago, it never happened. The Conservative MP, Zach Goldsmith, a
:05:53. > :05:57.strong supporter of the recall bill thinks it was fear. It is a fear of
:05:58. > :06:00.democracy, when I have argued privately and publicly with Nick
:06:01. > :06:04.Clegg, it is his job to draft this bill. He talks about kangaroo
:06:05. > :06:07.courts. In recall the only court is the constituency, anyone can take
:06:08. > :06:13.part, it is just like an election. If nigh view it is an offensive
:06:14. > :06:17.thing to say about one's constituents, it is reveal ago
:06:18. > :06:23.terror of the mob or the voter. Under his proposal if around 20% of
:06:24. > :06:26.constituents signed a petition over an eight-week period it would
:06:27. > :06:31.trigger a referendum into whether the MP would step down, 50% in
:06:32. > :06:36.favour would trigger a by-election. It is a long way from the
:06:37. > :06:42.Government's own draft bill, which needs the agreement, of you guessed
:06:43. > :06:45.a Select Committee. Why not take it to the electorate, that is an
:06:46. > :06:50.independent body? There are huge difficulties with the called pure
:06:51. > :06:53.recall approach and that is would for instance members of the public
:06:54. > :06:58.be able to decide simply that they did not like their member of
:06:59. > :07:01.parliament? Would they be able just to decide for instance that on an
:07:02. > :07:05.issue of conscience, whether it was an issue abortion or euthanasia,
:07:06. > :07:11.whether they had a fundamental objection. But voters are already
:07:12. > :07:17.speaking, a petition calling for Maria Miller to pay back ?45,000 or
:07:18. > :07:19.step down has more than 170,000 signatures. Tonight it is reported
:07:20. > :07:25.the Government has tried to shut others like it down. As another MP
:07:26. > :07:29.came forward to repent her financial errors, this time with a fulsome
:07:30. > :07:36.apology, the air is starting to feel thick with the sense there may be
:07:37. > :07:42.more to come. With us now is the Conservative MP
:07:43. > :07:47.and leader of the House of Commons. In 2009 David Cameron said that in
:07:48. > :07:51.the matter of MPs' expenses the key thing was does it pass the smell
:07:52. > :07:56.test, do you think Maria Miller does pass the smell test? I think what we
:07:57. > :08:03.have clearly seen is one of those cases which relates to prior to
:08:04. > :08:06.2009. Frankly, of course, she was accused of obtaining a financial
:08:07. > :08:11.benefit by having her parents in her home, paid for by expenses. That
:08:12. > :08:16.complaint wasn't upheld, the principal complaints weren't upheld.
:08:17. > :08:20.You think she does pass the smell test? The important thing about 2009
:08:21. > :08:24.is we legislated for a new and independent system for the scrutiny
:08:25. > :08:30.of MPs' expenses. It is very important. I asked you a very simple
:08:31. > :08:37.question, does it pass the smell test? There was no dishonesty so it
:08:38. > :08:40.does pass it. The complaint against her was not upheld. What was
:08:41. > :08:45.identified were overpayments that she has repaid and the issue of
:08:46. > :08:48.course, very much a House of Commons issue, that she hadn't co-operated
:08:49. > :08:55.as fully and freely as the committee and the commissioner wanted. She
:08:56. > :09:01.afollow poll guised to the -- apologised to the House for that.
:09:02. > :09:06.Was a 32-second apology adequate? She made the adequate asked for. Was
:09:07. > :09:10.it adequate? She made the apology asked for. If you look back there
:09:11. > :09:15.have been previous apologies that have also been literally what was
:09:16. > :09:19.asked for, she made the apology asked for. The apology you make in a
:09:20. > :09:23.personal statement is one agreed with the Madam Speaker. He stopped
:09:24. > :09:26.her making a longer one did he? It wouldn't be appropriate for her to
:09:27. > :09:30.elaborate. It was right for her to make the apology that was asked for.
:09:31. > :09:34.When she says in this article for the voters of Basingstoke today that
:09:35. > :09:39.she's devastated by what's happened, what is she devastated about? I
:09:40. > :09:43.think she was very unhappy that it turned out she had claimed more than
:09:44. > :09:48.she was entitled to. Because she didn't think she had and it came out
:09:49. > :09:53.in the course of inquiries into this that she had claimed more than she
:09:54. > :09:59.really ought to have done. And she was, I think. She was devastated to
:10:00. > :10:05.discover she had done something wrong? I know her and she believed
:10:06. > :10:11.all the way through this, remember the Legg Inquiry, back in 2009, she
:10:12. > :10:16.and others were looked into by Sir Thomas Legg, she believed she had
:10:17. > :10:21.complied fully. If you look at the report the Standards Committee took
:10:22. > :10:24.the view that what she had claimed in relation to which was her main
:10:25. > :10:27.home and so on was actually reasonable in the light of the rules
:10:28. > :10:30.at the time. As leader of the House of Commons, you obviously think the
:10:31. > :10:35.Standards Committee is important? Certainly. Do you think therefore it
:10:36. > :10:40.acceptable that MPs don't bother to turn up for its meetings? No and I
:10:41. > :10:44.think they should be there. Does that pass the smell test? They need
:10:45. > :10:50.to do their job. And they completely understand that. They have not been
:10:51. > :10:54.doing it? In one case. Three lay members said today that very often
:10:55. > :10:58.they were too busy to be concerned about standards? They have delivered
:10:59. > :11:05.on their responsibility in a number of cases in recent months. There are
:11:06. > :11:12.11 MPs on that committee, one meeting only one MP turned up? That
:11:13. > :11:17.is acceptable is it? No, I'm not saying it is. That doesn't pass the
:11:18. > :11:22.smell test either? It has lay members on it now. Good thing too
:11:23. > :11:25.because the MPs don't turn up? They should be there and that is clear, I
:11:26. > :11:28.make no bones about that. They haven't been doing it? But that is
:11:29. > :11:32.their responsibility in the committee to do this thing. It is
:11:33. > :11:39.slightly your responsibility too? Actually, no, not directly. You are
:11:40. > :11:45.the Leader of the House? Absolutely, MPs don't give enough of a monkeys
:11:46. > :11:49.to turn up to the committee that regulates their behaviour? We have
:11:50. > :11:51.put lay members on that committee and the members are responsible for
:11:52. > :11:55.delivering on their responsibility. They have delivered a whole series
:11:56. > :12:00.of reports on their responsibility. Can the lay members vote? No. And
:12:01. > :12:04.nor do they need to vote. What are they doing on the committee? They
:12:05. > :12:09.participate directly in all the decisions of the committee. If they
:12:10. > :12:12.dissented they could publish a dissenting opinion and that would be
:12:13. > :12:15.a veto. They have more power than simply having a vote. Now MPs are
:12:16. > :12:21.too busy to be concerned about standards? That is not true. They do
:12:22. > :12:27.say that? I have read it. So have I. They recognise that MPs are busy.
:12:28. > :12:31.MPs are too busy to spend much time on standards? They and I know and we
:12:32. > :12:34.have discussed with the lay members the responsibility is on the
:12:35. > :12:37.Standards Committee and other members to meet those standards,
:12:38. > :12:42.that is our job and we will do that. But if they are not even turning up?
:12:43. > :12:47.Let me be clear about a number of things. Firstly, the expenses
:12:48. > :12:51.system, it wasn't covered in the package, since May 2010 is
:12:52. > :12:59.administered by an independent authority, IPSA, that is completely
:13:00. > :13:01.separate, now and for the future the expenses of Members of Parliament is
:13:02. > :13:06.governed independently, regulated, enforced, overpayments can be
:13:07. > :13:10.reclaimed, fines can be levied. That is all completely independent, we
:13:11. > :13:18.are dealing now with issues relating to t past. Before 2009 before the
:13:19. > :13:21.legislation came in. I hope there are few cases. The responsibility of
:13:22. > :13:24.the Standards Committee has changed, we have got independent members. We
:13:25. > :13:28.have an independent commissioner for standards. We have a process by
:13:29. > :13:34.which those independent members can make sure that where standards of
:13:35. > :13:37.conduct may not have been met it is independently investigated and there
:13:38. > :13:41.is an independent voice in the final report. You have read this report
:13:42. > :13:45.from the lay members of the Standards Committee? Yes I have. And
:13:46. > :13:48.you will recall in it that they also say there should be a re-think of
:13:49. > :13:54.the standards expected of MPs? Well, they say. Will there be such a
:13:55. > :13:57.thing? I hope we will do this and the Standards Committee will work
:13:58. > :14:02.across the House and beyond in order, with the public I hope, and
:14:03. > :14:07.they will look at rewriting the Code of Conduct. That is what they want
:14:08. > :14:11.to. Do they want to bring what they regard it into a more modern format
:14:12. > :14:19.and in line with the principles of public life asset out. Why should it
:14:20. > :14:26.be changed? The code of Conduct should be simpler and related more
:14:27. > :14:33.to the conduct in public life set butt out by the standards in public
:14:34. > :14:37.life committee. If you look at this particular case you are looking at a
:14:38. > :14:40.report. Maria Miller couldn't understand it apparently? The rules
:14:41. > :14:45.are very complicated and it doesn't help. This woman is a cabinet member
:14:46. > :14:49.and she can't understand the rules? Well the commissioner of standards
:14:50. > :14:52.and the Standards Committee themselves differed about the
:14:53. > :14:59.interpretation of the rules. What do you think this is doing to public
:15:00. > :15:04.trust in politicians? I don't think it helps. It is all right to laugh,
:15:05. > :15:09.but give credit where credit is due. Of course it doesn't help! In this
:15:10. > :15:13.parliament we have since May 2010 an independent system for the
:15:14. > :15:17.regulation of MPs' expenses, including enforcement and compliance
:15:18. > :15:20.with that. We have lay members on the Standards Committee and frankly
:15:21. > :15:23.no report from the Standards Committee would really pass muster
:15:24. > :15:27.if it didn't have the agreement of the lay members. They have
:15:28. > :15:29.effectively a veto on that. We have an independent commissioner for
:15:30. > :15:33.standards. So actually from the public's point of view they should
:15:34. > :15:37.have more confidence, and the issues I think will become much more
:15:38. > :15:41.straight forward as time goes on. You have just said this isn't
:15:42. > :15:48.helping at all, is it? Of course it isn't helping. Betty Boothroyd says
:15:49. > :15:53.the honourable thing for Maria Miller to do is resign. We knew it
:15:54. > :15:56.was a discredited system, it was complex, difficult, didn't meet any
:15:57. > :16:01.of the standards we currently expect. But this is an investigation
:16:02. > :16:06.that went back into 2006/07 and those years before the new system.
:16:07. > :16:10.Is she going to resign? I don't think so, I hope not. She enjoys the
:16:11. > :16:14.full confidence of the Government does she? From my point of view, I
:16:15. > :16:18.think she's a good Culture Secretary, just think in the last
:16:19. > :16:21.few weeks we have actually had for example just the other day the first
:16:22. > :16:25.same-sex marriages, she was the minister in the Government
:16:26. > :16:29.responsible for seeing through an important piece of social
:16:30. > :16:33.legislation. So she enjoys the full confidence of the Government? The
:16:34. > :16:37.Prime Minister is responsible always responsible for determining who is
:16:38. > :16:41.there are a Government at any one time. It is the Prime Minister's
:16:42. > :16:45.prerogative to decide whether a minister has his confidence at any
:16:46. > :16:49.time. And as far as you are aware, does she enjoy that confidence?
:16:50. > :16:53.Absolutely. The Prime Minister like all of us will have had an
:16:54. > :16:56.opportunity to look. Until she gets to be too much of a liability I
:16:57. > :17:00.suppose? He would have had an opportunity to look at that report
:17:01. > :17:06.and say, as I looked at it, and said it doesn't disclose dishonesty, she
:17:07. > :17:11.may not have co-operated with the committee as she should have, and
:17:12. > :17:15.she has apologised, but no more dishonesty on the expenses. How long
:17:16. > :17:19.will she be Culture Secretary? I think that is an reasonable question
:17:20. > :17:24.to ask. Fair enough. The Irish President had a jolly nice-sounding
:17:25. > :17:30.dinner tonight, beef with wild mushrooms and watercress puree,
:17:31. > :17:36.baked onions stuffed with Parmesan and bulgar wheat. What wasn't most
:17:37. > :17:40.remarkable was the food but the setting. You he was dining with the
:17:41. > :17:45.Queen, the first Irish President to do so. In the tortured relationship
:17:46. > :17:52.between these two countries it marks a new and more hopeful chapter in a
:17:53. > :17:57.story that has at times been distinguished by its lack of hope.
:17:58. > :18:02.It has never been an easy relationship, British rule in
:18:03. > :18:06.Ireland ended with blood, fire and a treaty in 1921 that made the
:18:07. > :18:11.separation final. But the fate of the north as well as the memories of
:18:12. > :18:15.Britain's long rear guard action against Irish Nationalism meant that
:18:16. > :18:18.it has taken until today for an Irish President to come to
:18:19. > :18:27.Westminster. With a message of friendship. The pain and sacrifice
:18:28. > :18:31.associated with the advent of Irish independence inevitably past casts
:18:32. > :18:36.its long shadow across our relation, causing us in the words of the Irish
:18:37. > :18:41.MP Stephen Gwen "to look at each other with doubtful eyes". We
:18:42. > :18:46.acknowledge that path, but as you have said, even more we whole
:18:47. > :18:51.heartedly welcome the considerable achievement of today's reality. The
:18:52. > :18:59.mutual respect, friendship and co-operation, which exists between
:19:00. > :19:02.our two countries, our two peoples. Among President Michael Higgins's
:19:03. > :19:06.cermonial calls today, the tomb of the unknown soldier in Westminster
:19:07. > :19:13.Abbey, where he laid a wreath before paying his respects nearby at Lord
:19:14. > :19:20.Mountbatten's grave. He was killed by Irish republicans in 1979. For
:19:21. > :19:24.decades many Irish despised the British arm year, and those Irishmen
:19:25. > :19:30.who served in it were subject to official discrimination within the
:19:31. > :19:35.Republican lick until very recently. But now this wreath has been --
:19:36. > :19:40.Republic, until very recently. But now this wreath has been laid, a
:19:41. > :19:44.sign of how attitudes have changed and the fruit of diplomatic effort.
:19:45. > :19:49.You can look at the attempts of looking for a thaw in Anglo-Irish
:19:50. > :19:54.relations going back to the Silver Jubilee in 1977 when the Irish
:19:55. > :20:00.Government authorised the attendance of the minister for Foreign affairs,
:20:01. > :20:05.Gareth Fitzgerald, the future Taoiseach. His attendance to mark
:20:06. > :20:10.the Silver Jubilee of the Queen. That was one piece of a jigsaw that
:20:11. > :20:15.was being painstakingly put together and was painstakingly butt together
:20:16. > :20:22.over subsequent decades. Today's visit reciprocated one made by the
:20:23. > :20:26.Queen in 2011, that had its own delicate wreath-laying moment, at
:20:27. > :20:30.the memorial for fallen Irish republicans. And the following year
:20:31. > :20:36.in Belfast, another moment of great symbolism between one of the modern
:20:37. > :20:40.heirs to the tradition and a British Monarch. The Northern Ireland peace
:20:41. > :20:44.process has been vital on the final steps to reconciliation. What we saw
:20:45. > :20:49.with the peace process and the negotiation of the Good Friday
:20:50. > :20:52.Agreement was a readiness of various different movements and parties and
:20:53. > :20:57.players to compromise and to accept the need for compromise. So I don't
:20:58. > :21:02.think that narrative of compromise and that narrative of impediment
:21:03. > :21:09.belongs to one particular part. Party. Tonight a further step of
:21:10. > :21:16.reconciliation, Martin McGuinness was invited to dine at the official
:21:17. > :21:20.banquet at Windsor Castle, not the easist of steps for either of them.
:21:21. > :21:24.But it has brought the once IRA commander and the head of state he
:21:25. > :21:31.fought to the same table. Earlier today I spoke to the Deputy First
:21:32. > :21:37.Minister of Northern Ireland. What on earth are you doing breaking
:21:38. > :21:43.bread with the head of state of an occupying power? I have many reasons
:21:44. > :21:46.why I shouldn't meet with Queen Elizabeth and she too with me, but
:21:47. > :21:51.we both thought it was an important thing to do. I first met you in the
:21:52. > :21:55.1970, if I had said to you then in 40 years' time you will be sitting
:21:56. > :22:00.down to dinner with the Queen of England, what would you have
:22:01. > :22:04.thought? Well simply I never would have imagined that I would be
:22:05. > :22:07.minister of education in a power-sharing Government in the
:22:08. > :22:12.north and then after that joint First Minister with Ian Paisley in a
:22:13. > :22:15.very important institution that has remained intact and steady for the
:22:16. > :22:22.last seven years. But it is still part of the United Kingdom? And I'm
:22:23. > :22:26.an Irish republican and absolutely dedicated to end partition and bring
:22:27. > :22:30.beg the people of the north and the north with the south. And we have
:22:31. > :22:35.agreed in the context of the Good Friday Agreement that can only
:22:36. > :22:40.change through a constitutional vote and I'm working to achieve that.
:22:41. > :22:44.When there is a loyal toast tonight at the dinner, will you stand up and
:22:45. > :22:48.toast the Queen? Well if there is a toast to the Queen I will observe
:22:49. > :22:51.all of the protocols and civilities. Isn't it the case that last year
:22:52. > :22:55.when you were here and there was a toast to the Queen at a dinner in
:22:56. > :23:01.the City of London, you were unavoidably absent from the room at
:23:02. > :23:06.that point? That was an absolute coincidence believe it or not. I was
:23:07. > :23:11.going to say how your bladder was? Appropriately ready to go! That was
:23:12. > :23:16.just coincidence? It really was a coincidence, absolutely. Do you
:23:17. > :23:22.regret not going to the dinner in Dublin Castle two years ago? Three
:23:23. > :23:30.years ago? My party obviously wasn't ready for that event at that time.
:23:31. > :23:35.Since we have conducted enormous conversations and discussions with
:23:36. > :23:37.our own people. Particularly in advance of the Queen Elizabeth's
:23:38. > :23:42.visit to Belfast and whether or not I should be involved in meeting with
:23:43. > :23:47.her at that time. And effectively people realised in the context of a
:23:48. > :23:53.conflict resolution process that it was very important to be involved.
:23:54. > :23:57.Not in mealy-mouthed words about reconciliation but actually acts of
:23:58. > :24:03.reconciliation. Isn't it the case that you saw how popular that visit
:24:04. > :24:06.of the Queen to Ireland was and you realised that by not being part of
:24:07. > :24:13.it you were losing political capital? No, that's not the reason
:24:14. > :24:19.for this at all. I mean I watched the conduct of that visit very, very
:24:20. > :24:23.carefully and I have to say I was tremenduously impressed.
:24:24. > :24:28.Tremenduously impressed that Queen Elizabeth was prepared to stand and
:24:29. > :24:31.in solemn commemoration for those people who fought against British
:24:32. > :24:35.rule in Ireland. That she was prepared to honour the Irish
:24:36. > :24:39.language in the way she did. It sounds as if you ought to toast her?
:24:40. > :24:44.As I say in the course of tonight's events I won't disappoint anybody.
:24:45. > :24:50.We will see! Do you think that these events, this visit, that last visit
:24:51. > :24:56.is making a united Ireland closer? I do believe we are inexorably moving
:24:57. > :25:02.towards the reunification of Ireland, but it can only happen
:25:03. > :25:06.through purely peaceful and reconciliatory means. If I remember
:25:07. > :25:12.you when you were younger and you wouldn't have dreamed of settling
:25:13. > :25:16.for anything other than a 32-county socialist Republic, if I said to you
:25:17. > :25:19.you have sold out what would you say? It is important the people who
:25:20. > :25:23.elected me don't believe that. I stand in a constituency that is one
:25:24. > :25:26.of the most republican and nationalist constituencies in
:25:27. > :25:31.Ireland. When I fought in that constituency and my mandate has
:25:32. > :25:36.increased because people want peace. The vast majority of people are
:25:37. > :25:39.miles ahead even of some of the most negative politicians out there. In
:25:40. > :25:43.this changed environment in which you find yourself living, we all
:25:44. > :25:48.find ourselves living, I wonder if you don't think it is time for a
:25:49. > :25:53.general amnesty, it is time as all the on the runs have got an amnesty,
:25:54. > :25:57.shouldn't British soldiers who were caught up in it too be given an
:25:58. > :26:01.amnesty? I think we have made enormous progress, we have made
:26:02. > :26:05.enormous progress in the context of hopefully if we can conclude the
:26:06. > :26:09.discussions over the next number of months, provide a menu of options
:26:10. > :26:15.for a very important constituency, those are the victims, and I think
:26:16. > :26:19.Take That is the best way to deal with it because we have different
:26:20. > :26:22.opinions within victims groups, there are people who do want people
:26:23. > :26:26.arrested and want convictions. We have other people who want people
:26:27. > :26:30.arrested but they don't want convictions, and we have other
:26:31. > :26:34.people part of victims' groups who don't want anybody arrested at all.
:26:35. > :26:39.What does that mean in terms of an amnesty for British soldiers as
:26:40. > :26:43.applied to some IRA members? Effectively the British Army and
:26:44. > :26:47.soldiers involved in th killings of hundreds of nationalists and
:26:48. > :26:50.republicans in the north have had an amnesty. The number of British
:26:51. > :26:55.people who were actually charged and went to prison you could count on
:26:56. > :26:58.the fingers of one hand. I'm asking you what you think should happen? I
:26:59. > :27:03.have told you, I think the negotiations. You don't have a view?
:27:04. > :27:06.I do have a view. What is it? That our approach is the better than the
:27:07. > :27:10.one you suggest. For the simple reason for me to say. You don't
:27:11. > :27:16.believe in an amnesty for British soldiers, but you do believe in it
:27:17. > :27:20.for republicans? They haven't had an amnesty. 180 letters went out? To
:27:21. > :27:27.people who had no case to answer. You don't think in the interests of
:27:28. > :27:31.fairness that there ought to be seen to be an equity between what happens
:27:32. > :27:35.to, let's call them soldiers, on both sides, you don't think that? I
:27:36. > :27:40.have made it very, very clear that I think you cannot compare the issue
:27:41. > :27:44.of what happened over the on the runs whilst the situation in regard
:27:45. > :27:52.to the British Army. It is an entirely different world now as you
:27:53. > :27:55.have already acknowledged What the parties to the talks will agree over
:27:56. > :27:59.the next few months is we will provide a menu of options for people
:28:00. > :28:03.who suffered as a result of the conflict. Nobody is arguing,
:28:04. > :28:09.including Sinn Fein, for an amnesty. Thank you. Now the police do not
:28:10. > :28:13.bully the public, that is, we are told repeatedly, not how they should
:28:14. > :28:17.behave in democratic society. It seems they do bully other police
:28:18. > :28:22.officers, the chairman of the Police Federation, what is to all
:28:23. > :28:28.appearances a trade union in all but name resigned yesterday. Today an
:28:29. > :28:33.e-mail emerged that suggested he was subjected to personal attacks by
:28:34. > :28:38.other police officers. The Met is suffering what is politely called an
:28:39. > :28:41.image problem since people discovered its arms length
:28:42. > :28:43.relationship to the truth in the plebgate story.
:28:44. > :28:49.What is the real story? The chairman on his way out, Steve Williams,
:28:50. > :28:53.wasn't just having a hard time to persuade colleagues it is time to
:28:54. > :29:00.change things. In a plea to them confess today his colleagues felt he
:29:01. > :29:03.was being gratuitously bullied and humiliated. That was the boss. He
:29:04. > :29:07.also warned in a message to colleagues that he was worried about
:29:08. > :29:15.what he said it was "we all saw what happened to our friend a colleague
:29:16. > :29:20.Paul McKeever his predecessor who passed away of an embolism after a
:29:21. > :29:26.turbulent and stressful period in that post". It was suggested that
:29:27. > :29:30.the officials meting out the abuse to him in public or private could
:29:31. > :29:34.have been arrested for public order offences. Today we heard other
:29:35. > :29:39.things about the federation, secret bank accounts for some parts of the
:29:40. > :29:45.organisation. The Treasury's nickname is "Fingers" he's running
:29:46. > :29:49.the federati of the Treasury even though he doesn't have accounting
:29:50. > :29:56.qualifications. And stories of them jetting off for bathroom fittings. A
:29:57. > :29:59.parody? It does matter because the Government is not just trying to
:30:00. > :30:04.change how the police force is and paid, but also how they Bake Off.
:30:05. > :30:08.The federation represents more than 100,000 officers in England and
:30:09. > :30:11.Wales, the rank and file. This torrid battle inside the federation
:30:12. > :30:16.shows how tall an order it will be for the Government to change it. The
:30:17. > :30:19.top civil servant at the Home Office told manufactures today he thinks
:30:20. > :30:25.this is a very dangerous moment from the federation. And separate sources
:30:26. > :30:28.told me they are behaving like a 1970s trade union and there is a
:30:29. > :30:32.strong possibility that militants might be able to take control. What
:30:33. > :30:41.I have been told essentially is there is hardcore among the 30
:30:42. > :30:45.bosses and mini-boss who is sit on the council. They are worried about
:30:46. > :30:49.losing not only control, but their expense accounts and their
:30:50. > :30:53.additional salary for being officers in the federation themselves. And
:30:54. > :30:56.crucially they are the only ones with the power to choose the next
:30:57. > :30:59.chairman of the federation who will have to take forward the kinds of
:31:00. > :31:02.reforms that the Home Secretary wants. There is a sense with
:31:03. > :31:07.everything that has happened through plebgate, through the controversy
:31:08. > :31:10.around undercover policemen, even through Hillsborough, that all the
:31:11. > :31:15.problems that British policing has been struggling with for quite some
:31:16. > :31:18.time are coming to a head. And the Police Federation is a crucial part
:31:19. > :31:22.of trying to solve those problems. But with a crisis like this inside
:31:23. > :31:27.their four walls it is looking pretty difficult to sort out. I
:31:28. > :31:33.should mention we did invite the Police Federation if theyn't whatted
:31:34. > :31:38.to take part tonight. But -- if they wanted to take part tonight but
:31:39. > :31:41.nobody did. Regardless of the intense interest the trial of the
:31:42. > :31:45.athlete Pistorius was adjourned early. He had broken down sobbing
:31:46. > :31:49.when he gave his version of what happened on the night he shot his
:31:50. > :31:52.girlfriend dead. It was the most dramatic day of testimony in the
:31:53. > :31:58.trial so far. And Jim Reid watched it all.
:31:59. > :32:02.It is 418 days since Reeva Steenkamp was shot and killed at the home of
:32:03. > :32:05.one of the best known athletes in the world. In his second day of
:32:06. > :32:10.testimony the man who pulled the trigger has, for the first time,
:32:11. > :32:16.been setting out his own version of what happened that night. You are
:32:17. > :32:20.still under oath. The media are not allowed to show images of Oscar
:32:21. > :32:24.Pistorius giving evidence on the stand. He told the court how he woke
:32:25. > :32:28.in the early hours of Valentine's Day last year and heard a noise. He
:32:29. > :32:35.said he grabbed the gun under his bed and shouted at his girlfriend to
:32:36. > :33:11.take cover. That's the moment that everything changed.
:33:12. > :33:18.As he gave evidence his sister Amy broke down in tears, Reeva
:33:19. > :33:23.Steenkamp's mother buried her head in her hands. Pistorius went on to
:33:24. > :33:26.describe the moment he beat down his toilet door with a cricket bat to
:33:27. > :33:31.find his girlfriend's body slumped on the floor. I think I hit the door
:33:32. > :33:35.three times and there was a big plank I grabbed it with my hands and
:33:36. > :33:46.threw it out into the bathroom. I flung the door open and I threw it
:33:47. > :33:50.open. I sat over Riva and and -- Reeva and I cried. I don't know how
:33:51. > :34:00.long. I don't know how long I was there for.
:34:01. > :34:07.She wasn't breathing. Prosecutors called this story an intricate lie
:34:08. > :34:10.and claimed Pistorius shot his girlfriend after a heated row. The
:34:11. > :34:22.defence's strategy has been to try to show it was a couple in love. It
:34:23. > :34:27.follows from the Watsapp on July, she sent three kiss, read what's
:34:28. > :34:32.following... Today Pistorius was asked to read out text messages he
:34:33. > :34:37.swapped with Steenkamp in the weeks before she died. It was a message to
:34:38. > :34:41.thank me for lunch and says you are so special to me, and I respond
:34:42. > :34:46.saying thank you for being the most beautiful person to me and I'm crazy
:34:47. > :34:52.about you, and when I look at you I smile inside. The prosecution say
:34:53. > :34:55.other text messages paint a picture of a strained, fractured messages
:34:56. > :35:00.with Reeva Steenkamp left scared at times. Oscar Pistorius is likely to
:35:01. > :35:03.face much tougher questions when the other side starts its
:35:04. > :35:07.cross-examination, and one of the most closely watched trials in
:35:08. > :35:17.history moves slowly towards a verdict. We're joined now from
:35:18. > :35:19.outside court in Pretoria. This looked extraordinary, even on the
:35:20. > :35:25.other side of the world, what was it like to sit through? It was quite
:35:26. > :35:30.extraordinary as you say, some moving and poignant moments inside
:35:31. > :35:33.that courtroom as we saw Oscar Pistorius breaking down repeatedly
:35:34. > :35:38.as he spoke about the moments leading up to the shooting through
:35:39. > :35:42.the toilet door in which he found Reeva Steenkamp. That he had shot
:35:43. > :35:46.Reeva Steenkamp. What was more moving was the gasps inside the
:35:47. > :35:52.courtroom when his lawyer asked him to remove his prosthetic legs and
:35:53. > :35:57.walk towards that bullet riddled door. What the defence was trying to
:35:58. > :36:02.do here was show Oscar Pistorius as a very vulnerable and pitiful man,
:36:03. > :36:07.because they are trying to use his disability as his defence. And we
:36:08. > :36:13.saw moments when Reeva Steenkamp's mother, June Steenkamp looked
:36:14. > :36:16.stoney-faced at Oscar Pistorius listening intently to every word
:36:17. > :36:20.that Oscar Pistorius was saying. And the last five minutes of today's
:36:21. > :36:24.proceedings, that is when we saw Oscar Pistorius inconsolable and
:36:25. > :36:31.crying loudly as he described those moments when he discovered that he
:36:32. > :36:34.had shot Reeva Steenkamp. This case to those of us who are familiar or
:36:35. > :36:38.unfamiliar with your country has revealed a number of astonishing
:36:39. > :36:42.things. First of all the level of violence against women, and the
:36:43. > :36:47.level of gun ownership and the behaviour of some people with guns.
:36:48. > :36:53.Is it being seen there as illuminating bigger issues in South
:36:54. > :36:58.Africa? Well people will argue, particularly gun owner, because they
:36:59. > :37:01.will say less than 10% of the population actually own guns in
:37:02. > :37:05.South Africa. But when you look at intimate partner violence in South
:37:06. > :37:09.Africa, women, every eight hours a woman is killed by her intimate
:37:10. > :37:15.partner here in South Africa. And the judge presiding on the Oscar
:37:16. > :37:19.Pistorius trial a few months ago sentenced the policeman to two life
:37:20. > :37:24.sentences in jail because he had shot dead his wife. And the judge
:37:25. > :37:28.had spoken quite strictly and tough about the violence against women and
:37:29. > :37:32.children here in South Africa. So they are hoping that you know with
:37:33. > :37:36.activists and NGOs, they are hoping that this trial will actually bring
:37:37. > :37:41.these issues to the spotlight and that they are sorted out as quickly
:37:42. > :37:44.as possible. Because of the nature of this high-profile trial. Thank
:37:45. > :37:49.you very much for joining us, thank you. Now there was a testy
:37:50. > :37:53.atmosphere in Beijing today as the American Defence Secretary tried to
:37:54. > :37:59.warn off China from military adventures in eastern Asia and told
:38:00. > :38:07.them the USA would stand by its all allies in the area. Japan the
:38:08. > :38:13.country especially alarmed by these movements by China. In a new
:38:14. > :38:19.constitution the country renounced war forever. But last year, under
:38:20. > :38:27.its increasingly assertive leader, the Japanese scrambled fighters 267
:38:28. > :38:42.times to intercept in coming Chinese aircraft. We report from Tokyo. This
:38:43. > :38:49.is a Japan many thought had disappeared 70 years ago. But as the
:38:50. > :38:54.balance of power in Asia swings, inexorably towards China, Japan is
:38:55. > :39:00.responding. Embracing long dormant nationalism, rearming and training
:39:01. > :39:04.for war. For years Japan has been steadily building one of the most
:39:05. > :39:07.modern and powerful naval forces anywhere in the world. And now the
:39:08. > :39:14.Japanese Government wants to go further to make it bigger, more
:39:15. > :39:24.powerful and to try it from the shackles of a pacifist constitution.
:39:25. > :39:30.It is 6. 30 in the morning at Japan's naval academy. These young
:39:31. > :39:37.recruits will be the Navy commanders of tomorrow. Japan's constitution
:39:38. > :39:47.bans them from going to war. But these cadets are not training for
:39:48. > :39:55.peacekeeping. TRANSLATION: We train every day for war, we are taught to
:39:56. > :40:00.think in a war-like way. While Britain's Royal Navy has six modern
:40:01. > :40:11.destroyers, Japan has 26. Its military commanders are preparing to
:40:12. > :40:15.fight a war at sea and this is why. This Chinese boat is deep inside
:40:16. > :40:26.Japanese controlled waters and refusing to stop. Last year Japan
:40:27. > :40:34.scrambled fighter jets, 267 times to intercept in coming Chinese
:40:35. > :40:39.aircraft. China is aggressively pursuing its territorial claims on
:40:40. > :40:42.islands around Japan. This increasingly tense atmosphere is
:40:43. > :40:48.providing the space for Japan's Prime Minister to move the country
:40:49. > :40:53.sharply to the right. On the one hand you can point to a definite
:40:54. > :40:57.expansionist tendencies of the Chinese Government. But you could
:40:58. > :41:02.say the Japanese Prime Minister, has added fuel to the fire by bringing
:41:03. > :41:07.back the history issues. He basically takes the view that Japan
:41:08. > :41:14.did nothing particularly wrong during the Second World War. The
:41:15. > :41:20.Prime Minister's political career is driven by restoring pride in Japan's
:41:21. > :41:25.identity. To do so he believes Japan must overturn its sense of shame
:41:26. > :41:31.about World War II. That is why he went to the shrine, a place that
:41:32. > :41:37.enshrines the spirit of Japan's top war criminals. He doesn't believe
:41:38. > :41:42.they were criminals. Modernising the Japanese military on the one hand,
:41:43. > :41:45.and basically providing a revisionist history view are
:41:46. > :41:52.basically inseparable. He thinks that by selling out and by accepting
:41:53. > :41:57.the conventional view of history Japan would be perpetually
:41:58. > :42:04.emasculated and vulnerable to Chinese attacks. The shrine is the
:42:05. > :42:10.spiritual home of Japanese nationalism. It celebrates the
:42:11. > :42:20.strong Japan the Prime Minister yearnings to bring back. It drives
:42:21. > :42:26.his plan to put the Emperor back at the throne. He's pushing textbooks
:42:27. > :42:31.that leave out Japan's war time atrocities. And it is why he and his
:42:32. > :42:36.Government are determined to scrap the peacetime constitution. This man
:42:37. > :42:45.is very close to the Prime Minister, he's his brother. TRANSLATION: Japan
:42:46. > :42:48.wants to act like a normal country under international law, we will not
:42:49. > :42:53.start a war, we are a peaceful country. But all countries have a
:42:54. > :43:01.right to self-defence. That's why we want to reinterpret the
:43:02. > :43:05.constitution. Changing the constitution requires a two thirds
:43:06. > :43:09.majority in parliament, and that's very difficult. That's why the
:43:10. > :43:15.Government now talks of reinterpreting it. But whether it is
:43:16. > :43:23.revised or reinterpreted the aim is to deal with China. TRANSLATION:
:43:24. > :43:28.China is trying to change the status quo by force and coercion, we will
:43:29. > :43:40.never escalate tension, but in our response to this situation we will
:43:41. > :43:44.be resolute in our actions. The islands here are Japan's closest
:43:45. > :43:50.point to China and the hub of American air power in the Pacific.
:43:51. > :43:55.Japanese schoolchildren gather to snap its most modern fighter jets as
:43:56. > :44:01.they head out over the sea. For 70 years Japan has embraced US military
:44:02. > :44:05.protection and US imposed pacifism. These schoolchildren are now at the
:44:06. > :44:09.centre of a fight over what sort of relationship Japan will have with
:44:10. > :44:21.its military and what future Japan will embrace. This man teaches
:44:22. > :44:28.children on the island, like many Japanese he remains deeply
:44:29. > :44:34.suspicious to any move back to military. TRANSLATION: Ever since
:44:35. > :44:38.World War II Japan has embraced individualism and human rights from
:44:39. > :44:43.the west. Now he wants to take us back to an older version of Japan
:44:44. > :44:52.like before the war and imperial Japan. It is in Japan's schools that
:44:53. > :44:56.the Prime Minister and the right are seeking to reclaim Japan's history.
:44:57. > :45:01.Schools like this one have been ordered to use a new
:45:02. > :45:09.Government-approved history text. That portrays Japan of liberating
:45:10. > :45:13.Asia from European impeerism. It whitewashes Japan's World War II
:45:14. > :45:17.atrocities. This school and these children are not using it, the
:45:18. > :45:21.teachers are resisting. TRANSLATION: They are stirring up nationalism and
:45:22. > :45:24.stirring up feelings against China saying that is why we need a strong
:45:25. > :45:31.military. They want to use the textbooks to condition our children
:45:32. > :45:36.to the idea of a strong military. The rumblings of nationalism can
:45:37. > :45:44.already be heard. In recent weeks we have seen public figures in Japan
:45:45. > :45:51.openly displaying opinion that is were once the territory of the far
:45:52. > :45:55.right. Denying Chinese sex slaves World War II, denying Japan was the
:45:56. > :45:59.agressor. By having a leader with very clear revisionist views of
:46:00. > :46:04.history, you are also encouraging more people like him to get on, to
:46:05. > :46:10.get the spotlight and have a great influence in the Japanese society.
:46:11. > :46:14.And so it can possibly unleash a series of events or developments
:46:15. > :46:18.that can eventually lead to a dangerous situation. It is not just
:46:19. > :46:23.Abe is determined to as you a war with China, but the kind of thing
:46:24. > :46:30.that he's doing can provoke China into a combat situation. The
:46:31. > :46:36.language of all the players is becoming more bell lig rent. China
:46:37. > :46:40.continues to aggressively push its claim to islands around Japan. Mr
:46:41. > :46:47.Abe has warned the situation in east China sea is like Britain and German
:46:48. > :46:52.in 1914 and US intelligence chiefs have accused China of preparing for
:46:53. > :46:58.a short war to grab those islands from Japan. The Japanese Government
:46:59. > :47:03.has decided it is now time to stand up to China. Japan will no longer
:47:04. > :47:09.sit by and watch China dominate this region. That means abandoning # 0
:47:10. > :47:13.years of pass -- 70 years of pacifism, and it means that Japan
:47:14. > :47:23.are acquiring the military capability to take China on. Many
:47:24. > :47:28.believe it is time for Japan to become a normal country with a
:47:29. > :47:32.normal military. But by turning to nationalism the Government risks
:47:33. > :47:38.inflaming tensions with both allies and rivals. The biggest danger of
:47:39. > :47:48.all comes from that most incendiary of weapons, history. Well no time
:47:49. > :47:50.for the newspapers and that's all we have time for at all tonight. More
:47:51. > :48:08.tomorrow, until then, good night. So far this week heavy rain on
:48:09. > :48:12.Monday, bright spells and showers on Tuesday, as far as Wednesday is
:48:13. > :48:13.concerned it is going to be quite cloudy, some rain to the north,