:00:07. > :00:14.A teacher is stabbed to death in school and the country gasps in
:00:15. > :00:20.shock. An awful tragedy for sure, but does it tell us anything about
:00:21. > :00:26.violence in schools? Should it be the cue for moral panic over the
:00:27. > :00:31.state of our worst classrooms. As pro-Russians attack Ukrainian
:00:32. > :00:37.protests in Donetsk, we talk to the journalist who was beaten up and
:00:38. > :00:41.kidnapped by pro-Moscow settlers, if anyone can tell us who they are, he
:00:42. > :00:47.can. For once, the man who spoke and spun for a living is silent. I have
:00:48. > :00:54.been told by my lawyers to say nothing at all. Does the conviction
:00:55. > :00:58.of Max Clifford vindicate the pursuit of old men for the sex
:00:59. > :01:05.crimes of their middle-age and youth. And the American Vietnam War
:01:06. > :01:24.veterans who left children behind them when they fled go back there to
:01:25. > :01:28.find them. Guy it was late this morning when the police were called
:01:29. > :01:31.to a Catholic school in Leeds and arrested a 15-year-old, an
:01:32. > :01:35.experienced female teacher had been stabbed to death. By most accounts
:01:36. > :01:40.the school was popular and pupils horrified by what happened. Was it a
:01:41. > :01:44.shocking abhoration, or a sobering reminder of the threat of violence
:01:45. > :01:54.teachers can face in the classroom. In memory of a much loved teacher,
:01:55. > :01:58.tonight corpus Corpus Christer, Catholic Church rembering a woman
:01:59. > :02:01.who had taught at the school for 30 years. She had taught Spanish and
:02:02. > :02:07.religious education. They say you always remember a good teacher, as
:02:08. > :02:10.the news spread, students past and present came back to pay tribute.
:02:11. > :02:15.She was always a teacher you could approach, even if you weren't with
:02:16. > :02:18.her, she made herself available for you. She was that sort of lady. Why
:02:19. > :02:23.did you want to be here today? To pay my respects to somebody who is
:02:24. > :02:28.just truly amazing, she deserves every bit of respect. It wasn't like
:02:29. > :02:33.finding out a teacher had died, it was like a relative or auntie. What
:02:34. > :02:39.sort of a person was she? Lovely. No teacher should turn up at school in
:02:40. > :02:44.the morning and not go home. That is what happened at Corp are yous
:02:45. > :02:49.Christi Catholic school in Leeds this morning. A 15-year-old is in
:02:50. > :02:54.custody and the police recovered a knife. This afternoon the police
:02:55. > :02:57.told me that Mrs McGuire was stabbed many times, in front of her students
:02:58. > :03:01.during the lesson after morning break. Originally they said other
:03:02. > :03:05.classes were told there was a leak and they should stay put, as
:03:06. > :03:15.teachers began to break the news, many were in tears. Family liaison
:03:16. > :03:20.officers have been on stand by all day. This is clearly a shocking
:03:21. > :03:25.event for everybody. Indeed this is clearly an unprecedented event here
:03:26. > :03:31.in Leeds. And a shocking incident, the likes of I have not seen in over
:03:32. > :03:35.25 years of Police Service. The reason for that is that schools in
:03:36. > :03:40.Leeds are generally very safe places to work, to visit and to study.
:03:41. > :03:44.Philip Lawrence is thought to have been the last teacher fatally
:03:45. > :03:50.stabbed, that was 1995 when the headteacher tried to break up a
:03:51. > :03:55.fight outside his London school. Mrs McGuire was killed on school
:03:56. > :03:58.promises, her death will -- premises, her dead will lead to
:03:59. > :04:03.questions about whether classrooms are more dangerous. It is an awful
:04:04. > :04:06.thing that has happened, we have to wait for the investigation to see
:04:07. > :04:10.what happened and what lessons can be learned. Recent figures show the
:04:11. > :04:21.number of pupils caught with weapons in school is going down. From 365 in
:04:22. > :04:25.2011 to 250 last year. Unfortunately young people sometimes do stupid
:04:26. > :04:28.things, and they have to live with the consequences. Sometimes the
:04:29. > :04:32.consequences are not what they would have foreseen. Tonight this
:04:33. > :04:41.community is finding solace where it can. Chris Dunn has spent 41 years
:04:42. > :04:45.working and ultimately running London schools before retiring last
:04:46. > :04:51.September, and the check executive of the teacher support network,
:04:52. > :04:55.providing counselling and support for teachers suffering with
:04:56. > :04:59.work-related emotional problems. I can almost smell the moral panic
:05:00. > :05:04.beginning but this is very rare? It is incredibly rare. I said to your
:05:05. > :05:07.researcher when they rang up, I honestly couldn't believe and I
:05:08. > :05:13.heard it on the news tonight when the last time a teacher who was
:05:14. > :05:17.attacked in this way. We heard a headteacher in 1995, that was again
:05:18. > :05:21.a quite different circumstance where he was defending some of his pupils
:05:22. > :05:25.out on the street against attack. What is your experience from your
:05:26. > :05:30.contact with teachers? Teachers seldom report that they have been
:05:31. > :05:35.viciously attacked, what they do say is they get intimidated, sometimes,
:05:36. > :05:38.certainly in secondary schools by older pupils, and that can be a
:05:39. > :05:43.problem. They also recognise they have powers to search pupils, but
:05:44. > :05:49.many of them don't want to do that, they were trained to teach. You have
:05:50. > :05:54.just used that phrase "many of them" don't want to do that and teachers
:05:55. > :06:01.report being intimidated. How many, how common is it? We take 26,500
:06:02. > :06:05.calls a year, there are a whole many and range of problems. How many
:06:06. > :06:09.contact but this sort of thing? We have had about 100 calls over the
:06:10. > :06:13.last two years, it is relatively low level, and I think what it says is
:06:14. > :06:20.most of our schools are safe places to be. As you said, we don't want to
:06:21. > :06:24.start a moral panic. I hesitate to describe you as a veteran, you are
:06:25. > :06:28.probably younger than I. After 41 years in schools did you think
:06:29. > :06:32.things were getting better or worse? I'm convinced they are getting
:06:33. > :06:35.better. I have worked, as you say, four # years, the last 21 as a
:06:36. > :06:40.headteacher and all of those years in Inner London. I'm absolutely
:06:41. > :06:43.clear that things are better, right across the board in schools,
:06:44. > :06:50.relationships, not just between pupils and their teachers, but
:06:51. > :06:54.between pupils and other pupils. Let as address one other things likely
:06:55. > :06:57.to come up in the next few days, the question of whether or not there
:06:58. > :07:00.should be metal detectors or security devices installed in
:07:01. > :07:04.schools. What would you think about that? Most teachers would prefer not
:07:05. > :07:08.to have those kinds of systems in place, you know, schools are open
:07:09. > :07:12.places for communities and I don't think teachers want that. I don't
:07:13. > :07:16.think the statistics merit it. And it would be really sad if we end up
:07:17. > :07:22.with that kind of level of security. I think engaging the police,
:07:23. > :07:27.parents, communities and using this tragedy to discuss the issues around
:07:28. > :07:32.violence and around knives and so on, that's worth doing. But actually
:07:33. > :07:36.we mustn't overrespond and overreact. It is one of the things
:07:37. > :07:40.of course that every Ofsted inspection team asks the pupils, and
:07:41. > :07:44.they take them away from the teachers and they talk to them in
:07:45. > :07:47.confidence, they ask them about bullying, violence, they ask them if
:07:48. > :07:51.they feel safe, and read the report up and down the country, the vast
:07:52. > :07:55.majority say they do feel safe in their schools. Is there a danger of
:07:56. > :07:59.a negative consequence of an overreaction such as installing
:08:00. > :08:03.metal detectors? I think so, because what I believe so many of my
:08:04. > :08:10.colleagues have been trying to do over the years to regard this as an
:08:11. > :08:14.issue about education. It is about creating an atmosphere of respect.
:08:15. > :08:17.Not just top-down respect, or top-up respect if you like, pupils
:08:18. > :08:20.respecting their teachers, but everybody in the community
:08:21. > :08:24.respecting each other. In my school we wrote a school code that said
:08:25. > :08:30.exactly. That everybody has the right to be treated with respect. We
:08:31. > :08:35.made it clear that this code applied to me the headteacher, as much as
:08:36. > :08:39.every single child in the school. You had to respect the pupils? And
:08:40. > :08:43.all my staff and the pupils had to respect each other and the teachers.
:08:44. > :08:47.You are nodding? I think teachers are far more preoccupied with the
:08:48. > :08:51.stresses and strains of teaching and working long hours and so on than
:08:52. > :08:55.with issues about violence. Most teachers say to us the things that
:08:56. > :09:01.bother them are low-level disruption that they get on a daily basis. We
:09:02. > :09:04.shouldn't lose sight in the broader picture which you say is not so bad
:09:05. > :09:08.that a terrible strategy has happened? Appalling. Every sympathy
:09:09. > :09:15.for the school, the family and so on. Now the crisis in Ukraine shows
:09:16. > :09:18.no sign of yielding to western concern and pressure, another town
:09:19. > :09:21.fell to the Russian rebels in the east of the country today. They
:09:22. > :09:27.still refuse to release seven unarmed monitors from the
:09:28. > :09:30.Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. In a few
:09:31. > :09:35.minutes I will be talking to a man who was himself held hostage by the
:09:36. > :09:39.sa rebels. First let's catch up with our diplomatic editor. It is going
:09:40. > :09:43.on, Donetsk today? Yes, this seems to have entered a new phase, this
:09:44. > :09:48.crisis. The immediate threat of a large scale Russian invasion seems
:09:49. > :09:53.to have stayed, now it is a battle for the streets. In Donetsk there
:09:54. > :09:58.was a demonstration early this evening. People demonstrating in
:09:59. > :10:04.favour of the Kiev authorities of national unity. Now they were set
:10:05. > :10:10.upon, about 1,000 of them, by people wielding steel bars, badly beaten,
:10:11. > :10:13.you can see a pro-Ukrainian supporter there being carried away.
:10:14. > :10:19.They complained the police did little. Also today the mayor of the
:10:20. > :10:24.biggest city in the east, Kharkiv was shot and seriously wounded.
:10:25. > :10:27.Where is this going? One Russian news agency reporting that shooting
:10:28. > :10:31.said how can you possibly have elections under these circumstances,
:10:32. > :10:35.this seems to be the agenda of those stirring this up. As far as
:10:36. > :10:38.sanctions or the threatened sanctions? Well we had more
:10:39. > :10:43.sanctions today, actually the fourth installment from the United States,
:10:44. > :10:48.a few individuals, but 17 companies. They are now moving against the oil
:10:49. > :10:52.and gas sector in Russia. Individuals closely associated with
:10:53. > :10:56.Putin, but I have been told also attempts to get at Mr Putin's money
:10:57. > :11:00.in some of these corporate entities by the Americans. This type of
:11:01. > :11:05.approach has not been adopted by the EU. They are expected to name 15
:11:06. > :11:09.additional individuals who will be subject to travel bans and asset
:11:10. > :11:15.freezes tomorrow. They don't yet go for what they call the sectoral
:11:16. > :11:19.sanction on the oil and gas, as explained this afternoon by William
:11:20. > :11:24.Hague. We are in further discussions in the EU about future steps,
:11:25. > :11:26.including preparations for a third tier of sanctions involving
:11:27. > :11:31.far-reaching economic and trade measures. These preparations are
:11:32. > :11:37.well advanced and the European Commission has sent proposals to
:11:38. > :11:45.each member-state. Now what about these hostages, the OSCE hostages
:11:46. > :11:49.taken by the pro-Russian forces? They are among dozens, the
:11:50. > :11:52.Ukrainians say there are 40 people being held against their will in
:11:53. > :11:56.these eastern towns. You have the three members of their own
:11:57. > :11:59.Intelligence Service, the SBU, we can see them here, clearly they have
:12:00. > :12:04.been roughed up, they have been held. Who are these guys? They are
:12:05. > :12:09.members of the Ukrainian Intelligence Service, the SBU. Then
:12:10. > :12:13.we have these gentlemen, the OSC monitors you were talking about,
:12:14. > :12:17.mostly Germans, in fact, not great time to hold them and put them on
:12:18. > :12:21.display with the EU discussing these possible sanctions. Then you have
:12:22. > :12:26.Ukrainian journalists but also the case of the American reporter who
:12:27. > :12:30.was working for Advice News, one of the things he was looking at, just
:12:31. > :12:35.before he was lifted, was this question of who are the figures? We
:12:36. > :12:39.have reported on this before, some of these men, were they members of
:12:40. > :12:48.Russian Special Forces operating in their acclaim and counter claim, he
:12:49. > :12:52.caught up with a specific one, who showed his Russian passport but
:12:53. > :12:58.denied he was in Georgia in 2008 as some have alleged. And also denied
:12:59. > :13:03.he was there as part of a GIU unit. It is a deniable force, so I guess
:13:04. > :13:24.he couldn't admit it. Then Simon asked him why he had come there?
:13:25. > :13:31.The person who secured that piece of interview there is the Vice Media
:13:32. > :13:36.reporter, he was kidnapped and held by Russian seperatists in Ukraine,
:13:37. > :13:45.he joins us now for his first British broadcast interview? Can you
:13:46. > :13:49.tell us how you came to be taken? I was actually taken an hour after we
:13:50. > :13:54.filmed that video you just watched. We were driving through a number of
:13:55. > :14:00.checkpoints and on the last checkpoint before our hotel some
:14:01. > :14:03.armed men who had my picture, recognised me and pulled me and some
:14:04. > :14:09.of my colleagues out of the car, that is how my detention began. We
:14:10. > :14:15.were taken to the SBU Security Services building that has been
:14:16. > :14:18.taken over by Russian gunmen now. I was separated from my other
:14:19. > :14:22.colleagues and taken into the basement, blindfolded. I had my
:14:23. > :14:25.hands tied behind my back. I was thrown on the floor and beaten up
:14:26. > :14:35.and held there for the next three days. Did these men who took you say
:14:36. > :14:39.who they were? Some of them were clearly locals, my
:14:40. > :14:45.caretakers, the people who brought me food. And there was a sort of
:14:46. > :14:50.another echelon of gunmen who were also seeming to be local in terms of
:14:51. > :14:56.being from the same city, they were kind of Morag tag. And then there
:14:57. > :15:01.were those guys who we called the special ops GIESHGS they looked a
:15:02. > :15:07.lot more professional, had more modern guns and uniforms that
:15:08. > :15:12.matched. And they could very well have been from Ukraine and I wasn't
:15:13. > :15:15.able to get any evidence from those guys in particular that they came
:15:16. > :15:19.from Russia. They sounded like they had southern accents to me, so they
:15:20. > :15:24.could have been from Ukraine and southern Russia, I think there are a
:15:25. > :15:27.lot of local Ukrainians involved in this pro-Russia uprising. But you
:15:28. > :15:33.know as I showed in that other video, there are definitely Russian
:15:34. > :15:43.citizens down there as well? Why did they release you? It is hard for me
:15:44. > :15:46.to say, but I think maybe self-declared Mayor of The area, who
:15:47. > :15:54.I think is the person calling the shots and who ordered my release was
:15:55. > :15:57.eventually tired of all of the pressure he was getting from
:15:58. > :16:03.journalists asking after me. The problem now is there are local
:16:04. > :16:07.journalists and activists, Ukrainian people who are still being held by
:16:08. > :16:10.him for no apparent reason. There has not been a lot of attention put
:16:11. > :16:14.on their cases because they are not foreign. And they have been down in
:16:15. > :16:18.that same cellar that I spent three days in for weeks now. And I think
:16:19. > :16:24.that there should be a lot more attention brought to their cases.
:16:25. > :16:33.Did you see any evidence of any kind that the Russian state was involved
:16:34. > :16:38.in what was going on there? In the place where I was actually being
:16:39. > :16:42.held I was blindfolded the entire time, and when I was being
:16:43. > :16:47.entergated I wasn't ever allowed to look at the faces of the people
:16:48. > :16:52.interrogating me. So I wasn't asking them for their business cards
:16:53. > :16:56.either. So I don't know whether they were or weren't from Russia, I can't
:16:57. > :17:01.say for sure. Did you get any evidence that they were organised as
:17:02. > :17:07.opposed to being some group of irregulars? They were a group of
:17:08. > :17:13.irregulars who were organised, in my view! I think they communicate with
:17:14. > :17:17.the other pro-Russia cities that have been, well the pro-Russia
:17:18. > :17:20.forces that have taken over administration buildings in other
:17:21. > :17:25.parts of Ukraine and I think they are pretty co-ordinated in what they
:17:26. > :17:36.are doing. Thank you for joining us, thank you. You can see more of
:17:37. > :17:40.Simon's reporting at vice.com. Once upon a time Max Clifford was a short
:17:41. > :17:45.and noisy publicist who could break or break careers. He liked to boast
:17:46. > :17:55.he hated hypocrisy. Now the author of such tabloid treasures as
:17:56. > :18:02."Freddie Starr ate my hamster", has been convicted of sex offences.
:18:03. > :18:14.There is some veinedtation of Operation Utree. Operation Yewtree.
:18:15. > :18:20.I have been told by my lawyers to say nothing at all. Max Clifford
:18:21. > :18:24.stood in silence today after being convicted of a string of sex attacks
:18:25. > :18:27.on girls as young as 15. For a man well paid to keep some of his
:18:28. > :18:32.clients out of the headlines, this is a spectacular fall from grace.
:18:33. > :18:36.Through his six-week trial he called his young victims fantasists and
:18:37. > :18:41.opportunists. Today the jury disagreed, he was found guilty on
:18:42. > :18:46.eight of the 11 counts. Today's verdicts provide a long denied
:18:47. > :18:50.justice to the victims of serious sexual offences. I would like to
:18:51. > :18:55.thank these victims for having had the courage to come forward and give
:18:56. > :19:00.evidence. The victims of sexual abuse, whenever it may have taken
:19:01. > :19:06.place should know that police and prosecutors will listen. Max
:19:07. > :19:13.Clifford represented some of the best known tabloid names of the last
:19:14. > :19:17.decade, from Westlife and Jade Goodie, to Simon Cowell. There is
:19:18. > :19:21.always the fear 9.00 Sunday night you will get a call from a reporter
:19:22. > :19:24.saying we are doing this, you have to have someone to phone in a
:19:25. > :19:27.situation like that. But Clifford was perhaps best known as the king
:19:28. > :19:37.of the kiss and tell. The man behind many of the juicyist scoops of the
:19:38. > :19:42.past 30 years, from Antonia Sanchez and David Mellor, to many others. He
:19:43. > :19:50.arranged 15 front page slashes in 18 months. He invented celebrity
:19:51. > :19:57.publicity and PR in the 1970s and 1980s. For a long time no-one was
:19:58. > :20:01.able to sur plant him. And the other interesting fact is plenty of people
:20:02. > :20:05.have tried to imitate him but haven't managed to do it. On the
:20:06. > :20:10.other hand his other major problem is he became the story very often,
:20:11. > :20:13.where as other PRs have been much more discreet. The court heard how
:20:14. > :20:18.Clifford abused his powerful position in the industry, how he
:20:19. > :20:23.preyed on star struck girls at his offices in New Bond Street, and bars
:20:24. > :20:28.and clubs nearby. In the mid-1980s this doorway in Picadilly led to a
:20:29. > :20:32.nightclub, it was in places like this that Max Clifford held court.
:20:33. > :20:37.Here he approached one of his victims, an 18-year-old dancer and
:20:38. > :20:40.asked she if she wanted to be a bond girl. She was taken to a toilet,
:20:41. > :20:44.locked inside and sexually assaulted. He told the victim there
:20:45. > :20:49.was no point in going to the police as no-one would believe her. A
:20:50. > :20:54.second girl, 15 at the time of the astack, said decades later she wrote
:20:55. > :20:57.a handwritten note found by police in his bedside cabinet. It was read
:20:58. > :21:18.out in court, Today she told the BBC how Clifford
:21:19. > :21:25.was a cynical opportunist. It had huge implications for me as a young
:21:26. > :21:31.person. And to see him then go on to become very high-profile, to speak
:21:32. > :21:37.openly about other paedophiles and damn them and create a persona of a
:21:38. > :21:42.respectable, high-profile man, who was lauded by the media was
:21:43. > :21:46.sickening. This conviction will also be a huge relief for police and
:21:47. > :21:55.prosecutors, Clifford will soon be the first person sentenced as part
:21:56. > :22:00.of the much criticised Operation Yewtree, an investigation into
:22:01. > :22:05.historical sex offences sparked by the case of Jimmy Savile. It is
:22:06. > :22:08.landmark case because demonstrates cases can be brought successful,
:22:09. > :22:13.despite the status of the suspect or accused. For many years there was a
:22:14. > :22:19.perception that a case would rarely, if ever, succeed against a
:22:20. > :22:22.celebrity. And this case shows that with the evidence, with
:22:23. > :22:27.determination, cases can be brought. That is very important for victims,
:22:28. > :22:30.it is very important for the criminal justice system. It is not
:22:31. > :22:34.fun standing there being accused of being a fantasist or a liar.
:22:35. > :22:38.As for the man himself, at times it felt he almost didn't take the trial
:22:39. > :22:42.seriously, at one point coming out of court to play games with
:22:43. > :22:48.reporters on the steps outside. But the man once called "the king of
:22:49. > :22:51.spin", "the darling of Fleet Street", leaves court with his
:22:52. > :22:58.reputation in tatters. Max Clifford has been released on bail and will
:22:59. > :23:09.be sentenced on Friday. With us now are our guests. How
:23:10. > :23:16.important do you think today's verdict was? It is very important,
:23:17. > :23:25.it gives real vindication to the work that Operation Yewtree has
:23:26. > :23:31.done, it shows it was not a celebrity issue, it shows victims
:23:32. > :23:35.who come forward years after can convince a jury and achieve
:23:36. > :23:42.conviction. It demonstrates no-one is above the law? It certainly does.
:23:43. > :23:47.Absolutely and a I think one of the important things, the watershed
:23:48. > :23:52.moments here is that what it also signifies is a real sea change about
:23:53. > :23:55.the way women behave. I'm really genuinely thinking that most of the
:23:56. > :23:59.young women I know, my children, my daughter, wouldn't put up with that
:24:00. > :24:03.kind of behaviour, so it is, when we heard some of those victims'
:24:04. > :24:07.stories, I didn't know what to do, and I felt like I had to do that,
:24:08. > :24:14.most women now, this is not that many years on would think absolutely
:24:15. > :24:18.I'm not going to do that, don't be ridiculous. It is not just the kiss
:24:19. > :24:22.and tell culture, it is the I'm not kissing and I am telling, that is
:24:23. > :24:28.what today signified and that is very significant. Is it applying the
:24:29. > :24:32.standards of today to the behaviour of 20 or 30 years ago? No, because
:24:33. > :24:37.what I'm saying is there has been a big change. 20 or OK years ago most
:24:38. > :24:41.-- 30 years ago most women that age wouldn't have the confidence to say
:24:42. > :24:45.hang on, he has locked me in an office or toilet, what do I do, and
:24:46. > :24:50.I went along with it... I don't think that most women, of course we
:24:51. > :24:53.can't generalise, but most women these days would think you have to
:24:54. > :24:58.put up with something like that. An assault is an assault isn't it? What
:24:59. > :25:02.do you think this argument, is still occasionally being made, that we are
:25:03. > :25:06.applying today's standards to the behaviour of a different age? I
:25:07. > :25:11.don't agree with that, these were very serious sexual assaults on
:25:12. > :25:15.young girls, 15, who were giving evidence that their lives had been
:25:16. > :25:19.ruined. And it was just as serious then in the 60s and 70s as it is
:25:20. > :25:26.now. I don't think we are applying today's standards. These were very,
:25:27. > :25:29.very serious assaults, even then. And yet behaviour was different
:25:30. > :25:33.wasn't it? It was, the fact that even today there is a little smile
:25:34. > :25:39.on Max Clifford's face, at the time he's quite jokey about the whole
:25:40. > :25:46.thing, but I really wonder... Was there anything you heard in the
:25:47. > :25:53.testimony given that surprised you? I suppose I'm cynical, so I'm not
:25:54. > :25:57.easily surprised, I think it did surprise me that some of those
:25:58. > :26:02.girls, and as I said earlier, I can't imagine them saying this
:26:03. > :26:06.today, our daughters' age group to say they didn't have the confidence
:26:07. > :26:11.to say no, or awent along with it. I find that really difficult to
:26:12. > :26:15.believe now. But man taking his penis out and expecting to be
:26:16. > :26:18.masterbated, this is not normal behaviour? Clearly and most
:26:19. > :26:22.15-year-olds would get up and leave. Why didn't they? Was it normal in
:26:23. > :26:26.those days, or was it less unusual? I think it is completely abnormal
:26:27. > :26:31.and the fact that he can be jokey and this was the normal climate
:26:32. > :26:35.shows again this whole question of power and absolute power. I don't
:26:36. > :26:39.think some men will be behave any differently in the future. I think
:26:40. > :26:43.that will carry on, the difference is how girls, I don't know if you
:26:44. > :26:47.agree. This is still going on? Absolutely, why do we think it is
:26:48. > :26:52.not. Because it is so unexpected? Is it? It is in my world? You are not a
:26:53. > :26:56.girl. That is true, I'm not. Do you think this sort of behaviour is
:26:57. > :27:00.still going on? I would like to think that it is nowhere near as
:27:01. > :27:04.extreme as it was, and I would like to agree with Sue that people of our
:27:05. > :27:08.children's generation wouldn't tolerate that now. But you were
:27:09. > :27:12.aware of it happening when you were a young woman around Fleet Street?
:27:13. > :27:17.Yes and I think it still does now. I think probably not in the completely
:27:18. > :27:21.overt way that he behaved, but actually probably, even the other
:27:22. > :27:25.day we had stories and I know we haven't uncovered really what's been
:27:26. > :27:29.going on but stories about behaviour towards research assistants and so
:27:30. > :27:34.called minor staff in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. Of
:27:35. > :27:38.course it is going on. Power for people, they will abuse that power,
:27:39. > :27:42.they always will. What's the big lesson of this case? Well there are
:27:43. > :27:46.some very important lessons to be learned, firstly that it is never
:27:47. > :27:52.too late to come forward and give evidence, that you can achieve a
:27:53. > :27:57.conviction many years afterwards, that the evidence is still cogent
:27:58. > :28:01.and vital. This isn't about a celebrity witch-hunt. And those
:28:02. > :28:07.bravado statements he made at the beginning about these women being
:28:08. > :28:11.fantasists and opportunists, lesser victims would have shied away from
:28:12. > :28:14.the courts. And what is absolutely vital is this will give other people
:28:15. > :28:17.confidence to come forward and see their cases through in the courts
:28:18. > :28:22.and that's what's absolutely important. It still requires quite a
:28:23. > :28:27.bit of courage doesn't it? Incredible courage. They have, the
:28:28. > :28:30.jury has been out for eight days considering its verdict. But this
:28:31. > :28:38.will give other victims the confidence that a conviction can be
:28:39. > :28:42.achieved. Thank you, it is 40 years since the Vietnam War ended and a
:28:43. > :28:47.humiliating defeat for America, the more than half a million GIs who
:28:48. > :28:52.served in Vietnam are in their late 60s and early 70s, a stage in life
:28:53. > :28:55.when one might reflect on the fast. A few of the GIs who fathered
:28:56. > :29:01.children during the war are going back to look for them. Sue Lloyd
:29:02. > :29:08.Roberts joined one American veteran on his search. Saigon April 1975.
:29:09. > :29:18.American personnel rush to get on the last helicopters to take off.
:29:19. > :29:30.They leave behind girlfriends and tens and thousands of children,
:29:31. > :29:34.fathered by American soldiers. Gerry Quinn was one of those soldiers, 62
:29:35. > :29:38.years old and currently a missionary in Taiwan, he's back in Saigon for
:29:39. > :29:44.the first time in 40 years to look for his son. It is not the same, now
:29:45. > :29:51.you have got fancy cars and motorcycles and the bicycles are
:29:52. > :29:55.gone. The real irony for me is that the war was all about bringing
:29:56. > :29:59.communism here and getting rid of capitalism. And yet when you look
:30:00. > :30:11.around, when you look everywhere you see capitalism. At the Museum of the
:30:12. > :30:18.American War in Saigon, now renamed Ho Chi Min City, the guides tell of
:30:19. > :30:23.the barbaric acts committed by the Americans during the war. Gerry who
:30:24. > :30:27.worked in communications and didn't see combat, didn't expect to be
:30:28. > :30:32.accused of the same when he got home. To brand me as a baby killer
:30:33. > :30:38.when I felt like I was serving my country, mum, apple pie, Chevrolet,
:30:39. > :30:43.I come back and I'm a baby killer. No wonder it took four decades for
:30:44. > :30:49.Gerry to come back. One of the things I admired about Brandy is she
:30:50. > :30:54.was dignified. He has a photo of his former girlfriend, whom he only
:30:55. > :31:01.knows by the name Brandy. And of the baby born after he left. He would
:31:02. > :31:06.now be about 40. His family back home told him to forget them.
:31:07. > :31:13.Actually Brandy sent this photo to my mother, when my mother saw the
:31:14. > :31:19.photo she said you don't want to marry a Vietnamese, a "gook", part
:31:20. > :31:30.of it is that guilt of thinking I could have done something different.
:31:31. > :31:35.With an interpreter who has helped veterans find their children before,
:31:36. > :31:42.Gerry heads for the area where he shared a house with Brandy. How long
:31:43. > :31:48.has she been in this area? He has the address and a photo of the
:31:49. > :31:56.house, but can't find it. 30 A, we can't find the house with the
:31:57. > :32:07.numbers. That's a problem. All the street names were changed and even
:32:08. > :32:13.the numbers explains this man. Others suggest that they talk to the
:32:14. > :32:25.family of another GI who are visiting Saigon and staying just
:32:26. > :32:29.around the corner. Midas is the oldest of five children of an
:32:30. > :32:35.American soldier stationed in Saigon for ten years. He now lives in
:32:36. > :32:38.America. Do you remember any American-Asian children that had red
:32:39. > :32:44.air. There is quite a few over here. Really? Yeah. That sent to school
:32:45. > :32:50.with you or something? Yes, I only went to third grade in Vietnam.
:32:51. > :32:53.Midas doesn't remember Gerry's son, although he would like to help him
:32:54. > :32:58.in his search, not least because of what happened to him when he made
:32:59. > :33:07.contact with his father in America. When I talked to him he seemed
:33:08. > :33:12.through the conversation trying to deny the reality. So I'm just like
:33:13. > :33:17.OK, if that is what you want then I didn't want to be a bother so. His
:33:18. > :33:24.mother remembers vividly what happened after the Vietnamese
:33:25. > :33:47.entered Saigon. When there was an opportunity to
:33:48. > :33:54.take the family to America, she grabbed it and they all moved to New
:33:55. > :33:57.York. In the early 1980s the children of the American GIs were
:33:58. > :34:00.found to be living in a dreadful state here, discriminated against
:34:01. > :34:05.and living in poverty. The American Government felt compelled to start a
:34:06. > :34:09.programme of immigration. And in all, some 30,000 children went to
:34:10. > :34:18.live in America with their immediate families. But the programme came to
:34:19. > :34:22.an end after only eight years. Meanwhile Gerry is still looking,
:34:23. > :34:39.and getting increasingly dispondent of ever finding his son. Then comes
:34:40. > :34:47.the breakthrough that Gerry has been praying for. I'm looking for anybody
:34:48. > :34:51.around the age of my son. The owner of a noodle bar recognises the woman
:34:52. > :34:54.in a white uniform in a photo standing next to Gerry's girlfriend
:34:55. > :35:05.Brandy. She says that the midwife had a
:35:06. > :35:11.daughter who now lives in California. Who happens to be in
:35:12. > :35:19.Saigon for a visit. She had popped into the noodle bar the day before.
:35:20. > :35:24.Though contacts the midwife's daughter who is called Kim and
:35:25. > :35:31.arranges her to come and meet Gerry. This is Brandy and the baby. Oh my
:35:32. > :35:40.goodness I remember her, you know why, I talked to her a lot. So did
:35:41. > :35:46.you help deliver my baby. Yes I did. So you held my baby in your hands.
:35:47. > :35:56.Yes. So Kim I have a question, may I hold your hands. Of course. Because
:35:57. > :36:04.these hands held my baby. That's just so much emotion in my heart
:36:05. > :36:15.right now. I may never see him or touch him, this is as close as I
:36:16. > :36:22.will get. Right here. Over here is your home. One of these places here?
:36:23. > :36:25.Gerry and Kim go to her mother's old house, around the corner from where
:36:26. > :36:32.he was searching a few days ago. The house where his son was born. It is
:36:33. > :36:39.really amazing after 40 years to be able to look in this place. It turns
:36:40. > :36:48.out that Brandy lived here for some time after the baby was born. The
:36:49. > :36:53.photos come out again for the neighbours. One woman, who
:36:54. > :37:01.recognises the photo of Brandy comes up with a vital bit of information.
:37:02. > :37:12.Brandy's Vietnamese name and then a shattering bit of news.
:37:13. > :37:27.If what she says is correct, Gerry's son could also be in America. But at
:37:28. > :37:34.least guerrey now has the name of his son. The next day he leaves
:37:35. > :37:39.Saigon and using social media he puts his photos on Facebook, but he
:37:40. > :37:43.isn't hopeful. In the aftermath of the Vietnam War, only 3% of the
:37:44. > :37:58.children have made contact with their fathers. Two weeks later a
:37:59. > :38:03.41-year-old male in New Mexico recognises the photos on-line. The
:38:04. > :38:16.same pictures had been given to him by his mother. We arrange for Gerry
:38:17. > :38:28.to go to Alba Alberqurqe. He heard that Brandy was targeted and like so
:38:29. > :38:35.many mothers she abandoned her son. Here he is, they are jumping up and
:38:36. > :38:46.down. There he is. Wow. Grandpa! Hello. Hello, how are you guys. How
:38:47. > :38:57.are you doing. Love you. Love you too. A hug to make up for the last
:38:58. > :39:06.40 years. Wow! So is it real. Yes sir, now it is real Sir. Now it is
:39:07. > :39:09.real. It turns out Gary arrived in America when he was eight, thanks to
:39:10. > :39:19.the Government programme in the 1980s. Gary explains what it was
:39:20. > :39:25.like for the children growing up in Vietnam. We were away from Saigon,
:39:26. > :39:28.we were nowhere near Saigon, we were out in the middle pretty much in the
:39:29. > :39:37.jungle to start a new life out there, built a house out of clay or
:39:38. > :39:41.mud or whatever you call it, it is not hut but hard and dried, there is
:39:42. > :39:47.no food. You eat off of whatever you have out there. It was pretty tough
:39:48. > :39:52.growing up back home, being half white and half Vietnamese, it is not
:39:53. > :39:56.fun. So people making fun of you, your momma is this and that, you
:39:57. > :40:02.come out like this, you don't belong here, you need to go, this is not
:40:03. > :40:11.your country. Gerry is racked by guilt. I never knew you were a
:40:12. > :40:15.complete orphan. In my mind you would have been with your mother.
:40:16. > :40:20.When I first landed in New York, I didn't know, that was, all I know
:40:21. > :40:25.was the Statue of Liberty means freedom. I didn't even know I landed
:40:26. > :40:30.in the states that had the statue. I landed in New York and I told my
:40:31. > :40:34.foster family, oh my God, I saw the statue, I was like I need to go out
:40:35. > :40:39.there, and climb all the way on the top, that way I let people know I'm
:40:40. > :40:58.in America and I'm free. So I made it, you know. From now on neither
:40:59. > :41:03.intends to let the other go. And you can watch a longer version of the
:41:04. > :41:07.film this Saturday on Our World at 21. 30 on the news channel. Now the
:41:08. > :41:12.House of Commons has voted tonight, we don't have the result yet, but it
:41:13. > :41:17.is pretty much a foregone conclusion that it will decide to spend vast
:41:18. > :41:26.amounts of public money on a new railway line known as HS two, ?42.
:41:27. > :41:29.Five billion, although ministers hope it will come in cheaper. The go
:41:30. > :41:34.ahead for the first stage of the line was more or less assured by
:41:35. > :41:37.cross-party support. Though a number of Tory ministers with seats where
:41:38. > :41:40.the line will run through claim to have unavoidable commitments in
:41:41. > :41:45.Estonia and elsewhere this evening. They ducked out of voting. Many
:41:46. > :41:49.argue that plans for the HS2 are unique any way, and predate the days
:41:50. > :41:55.when people could work while travelling. Anything to get David
:41:56. > :42:13.Grossman out of the office and on to the trains.
:42:14. > :42:22.Like the trolley service on the London to Birmingham line, HS2 is,
:42:23. > :42:25.we are told, laden with goodies. Much of the benefit, according to
:42:26. > :42:31.the official figures, comes from shorter journey times, particularly
:42:32. > :42:38.for business travellers. We are promised millions of fewer wasted
:42:39. > :42:41.hours. As critics of HS2 have pointed out repeatedly, plenty of
:42:42. > :42:44.people do lots and lots of work on the train.
:42:45. > :42:49.It may be unnecessary, but to prove the point we decided if we could
:42:50. > :42:56.record and edit our enti film whilst on the train. What's next? The first
:42:57. > :43:00.guy is a critic of HS2, and he should be over there. Since you
:43:01. > :43:06.mention it we were asked to move into the less busy first class
:43:07. > :43:10.carriage by Virgin, it is a would be less disruptive to passengers trying
:43:11. > :43:15.to work! Why do you think so many people still remain unconvinced by
:43:16. > :43:19.the economic case for HS2? One of the big problems is the Government's
:43:20. > :43:23.rationale keeps changing, initially they said it was all about reducing
:43:24. > :43:26.the time people took to get to Birminghan and the northern cities
:43:27. > :43:30.and it would enable them to work more. When that was debunked they
:43:31. > :43:34.have moved on to talking about regeneration of the whole of the
:43:35. > :43:39.north of England, there is no evidence to suggest this will occur
:43:40. > :43:43.as a result of HS2. It hasn't had significant economic affects in east
:43:44. > :43:49.Kent or certain areas of Sinn Fein that have significant high-speed
:43:50. > :43:52.rail networks. One. 20 later we are in Birmingham, HS2 will take about
:43:53. > :43:59.50 minutes for the journey, the cost for this section of the line ?24
:44:00. > :44:10.billion, it includes a pretty Younge contingency. Is the saving worth the
:44:11. > :44:13.cost. In Birmingham I met a supporter who thought that was
:44:14. > :44:18.entirely the wrong question to ask? Our railway line is full, we can't
:44:19. > :44:23.upgrade the existing line, once that was concluded we concluded we need
:44:24. > :44:28.to build the best we can, the high-speed line. Birmingham's growth
:44:29. > :44:32.and potential, integral to that is having great connectivity, and we
:44:33. > :44:38.can't allow the railway to freeze up, which is what will happen. Do
:44:39. > :44:42.you think the case for HS2 has been helped by the rather formal way the
:44:43. > :44:47.business case is presented, talked about time saved? No, there is a
:44:48. > :44:51.general acknowledgement in the industry that the modelling for
:44:52. > :44:57.transport schemes is out of date. You get forced into a narrow set of
:44:58. > :45:03.parameters around time saved. The country's system of assessing
:45:04. > :45:10.transport needs upgrading. Back on the train the Chamber of Commerce
:45:11. > :45:16.point is supported by chocker full carriages. Hang on say HS2, look at
:45:17. > :45:20.the space in first class, a bit of configuration and you could achieve
:45:21. > :45:26.more capacity at a fraction of the cost. Critics fear politicians are
:45:27. > :45:31.in no mood to listen. A huge amount of capital has been invested and the
:45:32. > :45:36.governing parties have committed to do it, arguing this will regenerate
:45:37. > :45:39.the north of England. I don't think that is the case. Because of the
:45:40. > :45:43.sunk costs because of that political capital, I think it is very unlikely
:45:44. > :45:58.the major parties will change their stance now.
:45:59. > :46:06.Well we're in Euston, we haven't finished editing the piece, we could
:46:07. > :46:13.have done with ten more minutes, that is not something that HS2 could
:46:14. > :46:20.have helped us with. Just to let you know MPs have rejected an amendment
:46:21. > :46:25.opposing the HS2 bill by 451 votes to 50, which is a Government
:46:26. > :46:28.majority of 401, so it has the go ahead. Time for the papers. If you
:46:29. > :46:33.have been paying attention you will know most of tomorrow's front pages
:46:34. > :46:37.already. But the sudden availability of seven-and-a-half million digital
:46:38. > :46:41.newspaper pages, dating back centuries at the British Library's
:46:42. > :46:48.new archive in central London, opens up all sorts of other possibilities.
:46:49. > :46:52.On April 29th 1914 for example the Birmingham gas stet reports that at
:46:53. > :46:56.the instigation of Mr Churchill some of the Irish counties are being
:46:57. > :47:05.offered a temporary opt-out of the Home Rule bill, that should settle
:47:06. > :47:13.things out forever then. April 29th 1918 it talks about -- 1819 talk
:47:14. > :47:20.about Napoleon recovering from a disposition, which we know now to be
:47:21. > :47:27.a suicide attempt. And the Paris Gazette from 1718 reports the death
:47:28. > :47:31.of the daughter of the countess of Derby from small pocks. And sea
:47:32. > :47:36.stocks were doing well so nip out and buy a few of those. That is
:47:37. > :47:41.almost it. The 450th anniversary of what is traditionally regarded as
:47:42. > :47:46.Shakespeare's birthday as all well informed people know occurred last
:47:47. > :47:50.week, we will continue to mark it, tomorrow Harriet Walter will be our
:47:51. > :48:02.guest. Tonight we leave you with sonnet 129 and Ralph Fiennes. The
:48:03. > :48:15.expense of spirit in a waste of shame is lust in action.
:48:16. > :48:26.And still action lust is purged, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
:48:27. > :48:33.savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust, enjoyed no sooner but
:48:34. > :48:40.despise'd straight. Past reason, hunted and no sooner had past reason
:48:41. > :48:48.hated as a swallowed bait on purpose laid to make the taker mad. Mad in
:48:49. > :49:00.pursuit, and in possession so. Had, having and in quest to have extreme.
:49:01. > :49:11.A bliss in proof and proved a very woe before a joy proposed behind a
:49:12. > :49:19.dream. All this the world well knows. Yet none knows well to shun
:49:20. > :49:46.the heaven that leads men to this hell.
:49:47. > :49:48.Hello there, there is going to be more mist and fog around,