:00:07. > :00:16.How much did Vince Cable know? Did he sail you down the river? A very
:00:17. > :00:19.bungled coup. Vince Cable's comrade crashes out of the Liberal
:00:20. > :00:24.Democrats. After his plot was foiled. How much did Dr Cable know?
:00:25. > :00:29.We'll ask a Lib Dem minister just what is going on. Sorry statistics
:00:30. > :00:35.suggest a growing number of us say yes to a question that was a taboo.
:00:36. > :00:40.We will be discussing - are you racist? My life ain't heaven, it
:00:41. > :00:45.sure ain't hell. I'm not on top, but I call it swell. If I'm able to
:00:46. > :00:52.work, and get paid right, and have the luck to be black on a Saturday
:00:53. > :00:58.night. Hey! No question, she knew how to live. Anglesey's celebrated
:00:59. > :01:04.voice falls silent. Need a lift? Taxi! An uber battle is brewing as
:01:05. > :01:10.London's drivers take on the new cabs on the block. The ones using
:01:11. > :01:15.phone apps to catch our ride. Our technology editor tries to work out
:01:16. > :01:24.what is fare. What more thing tonight. I'm Professor Hawking, on
:01:25. > :01:31.Newsnight tonight I will reveal my scientific analysis on how to win
:01:32. > :01:35.the World Cup in Brazil. Good evening. The attempt to get rid of
:01:36. > :01:40.Nick Clegg might not have been a very good plot, but it was indeed a
:01:41. > :01:45.plot. Tonight, it's not entirely clear precisely what part was played
:01:46. > :01:49.by Vince Cable, one of Clegg's most senior colleagues. Even if he wasn't
:01:50. > :01:57.holding the dagger, he did, at least, know about it. What did he
:01:58. > :02:01.know? Morning, sir. Polls ordered up by his long time friend, Lord
:02:02. > :02:07.Oakeshott, tested the waters for a Vince Cable-led Lib Dem party. The
:02:08. > :02:10.Business Secretary so beloved by activists, perhaps not quite trusted
:02:11. > :02:13.by colleagues. REPORTER: Mr Cable, did you know
:02:14. > :02:18.Lord Oakeshott was conducting these polls? He claims tonight, from
:02:19. > :02:24.China, he only knew part of what his old comrade was up to. Lord
:02:25. > :02:28.Oakeshott asked my election campaign manager if we wanted a poll done in
:02:29. > :02:34.my own constituency. We said, yes. It was a private, local poll.
:02:35. > :02:40.Nothing to do with national leadership. I was aware that he was
:02:41. > :02:45.conducting other polls around the country. I had absolutely no
:02:46. > :02:51.knowledge of, certainly not involved in any commissioning of the surveys
:02:52. > :02:57.done in Sheffield Hallam and Inverness. I criticised them very
:02:58. > :03:02.severely yesterday. Matthew Oakeshott described to me as a snake
:03:03. > :03:06.withen an agenda and money. He didn't just explode out of his party
:03:07. > :03:08.today. He felled up to having ordered polls in key constituency
:03:09. > :03:25.saying: -- fessed. He claimed Vince Cable
:03:26. > :03:29.was aware of what he was doing. Vince amended and approved the
:03:30. > :03:32.questionnaire, he said. At his request I excluded a question on
:03:33. > :03:38.voting intentions with a change of leader. That poll worried me so
:03:39. > :03:43.much, that I commissioned four more, in different types of constituency
:03:44. > :03:45.all over the country. He claims several weeks ago I told Vince the
:03:46. > :03:54.results of those four polls too. Despite the disruption, the Lib Dem
:03:55. > :04:00.leadership is far from sorry to see Oakeshott go. I know I won't be in
:04:01. > :04:05.politics forever, Matthew Oakeshott will be relieved! Well, just three
:04:06. > :04:12.or four more general elections to go, Matthew. Can they just shrug off
:04:13. > :04:18.this attempted coup? Even if it has failed, the angst may not just
:04:19. > :04:21.fizzle out. With us now is Baroness Kramer, Lib Dem Transport Minister,
:04:22. > :04:25.and former constituency neighbour to Dr Cable. Thank you for coming in.
:04:26. > :04:29.The first problem we have here is there are two differing versions of
:04:30. > :04:34.eef vents. Vince Cable says he didn't know about the poll Matthew
:04:35. > :04:38.Oakeshott commissioned in Nick Clegg's constituency. Matthew
:04:39. > :04:43.Oakeshott said he did, who do we believe in Vince has been
:04:44. > :04:49.categorical. They didn't commission the polls. He didn't know about the
:04:50. > :04:55.polls, he mentioned Sheffield Hallam and Inverness that is good enough
:04:56. > :04:59.for me. Vince made a categorical statement I'm comfortable with that.
:05:00. > :05:04.He said that Matthew's behaviour has been inexcusable. I'm sure you will
:05:05. > :05:09.ask him questions when he comes back from China. He is doing what he
:05:10. > :05:13.should do in China working for the British economy and trade. Matthew
:05:14. > :05:17.Oakeshott was evener in the party for many years and you are clear
:05:18. > :05:25.that his version of events is not the truth? Look. Matthew is someone
:05:26. > :05:28.I regard as a friend, if I had a personal crisis, I'm sure he will be
:05:29. > :05:31.there. When he gets a political idea in his head, he is impossible. You
:05:32. > :05:35.can't debate with him. You can't challenge him. He doesn't listen.
:05:36. > :05:40.I'm sure he has his own picture of events and what happened. All I can
:05:41. > :05:43.say is, Vince has been categorical. We in the party need to get on now
:05:44. > :05:47.with the job we have to do in There is Government. Another important
:05:48. > :05:51.point. If he is lying about it, did Vince Cable know that Matthew
:05:52. > :05:55.Oakeshott replaced the questions in the poll about whether or not the
:05:56. > :05:59.Lib Dems would perform better under Vince Cable's leadership? Looking at
:06:00. > :06:02.the statement that you described to me, that I looked at from Vince,
:06:03. > :06:07.when he talked about poll questions, he was talking about a poll in
:06:08. > :06:12.Twickenham. If somebody came back to me and said back in the days when I
:06:13. > :06:16.was a Richmond Park MP we would like to run a poll, I would discussion
:06:17. > :06:19.questions with them. As far as I understand that is where the
:06:20. > :06:24.discussion was. Vince's statement is good enough - Do you know if Vince
:06:25. > :06:28.Cable knew that Matthew Oakeshott was asking about him as a potential
:06:29. > :06:32.Lib Dem leader? I haven't talked to Vince. Knowing Vince, I very much
:06:33. > :06:36.doubt it. You look at the statements that Vince made before he left for
:06:37. > :06:39.China. He was very supportive of Nick Clegg. He understands what our
:06:40. > :06:43.job is for the next year. He has made the same kind of statements
:06:44. > :06:46.from China. At the very least, though, given Matthew Oakeshott and
:06:47. > :06:51.Vince Cable's closeness over the years, it tells us rather a lot,
:06:52. > :06:54.does it not, his close comrade, at times, believed that Vince Cable
:06:55. > :06:57.would be very interested in knowing whether or not the party would
:06:58. > :07:02.perform better under his leadership. That tells us a lot about Vince
:07:03. > :07:06.Cable's ambition, does it not? I am Rae found of Matthew Oakeshott, as
:07:07. > :07:12.well, they have been friends for many years. As I said earlier,
:07:13. > :07:16.Matthew Oakeshott has never hidden his dislike of Nick Clegg - Has he
:07:17. > :07:20.talked to you about wanting to be leader He has never spoke to me
:07:21. > :07:23.about being leader. He has spoke about the importance of being in
:07:24. > :07:26.Government. The challenges we face as a party over the next year. This
:07:27. > :07:31.is precisely the point. Isn't the case that the challenge for the
:07:32. > :07:34.party is in fact only honestly being confronted by Matthew Oakeshott. The
:07:35. > :07:38.Lib Dem leadership and ministers are putting their heads in the sand. He
:07:39. > :07:42.is the one saying - we have to confront this reality? We have to
:07:43. > :07:47.reflect over the last week, for sure. I mean, we had some very bad
:07:48. > :07:51.results. We lost some very good people. The main job that we've got
:07:52. > :07:55.is in this next year we have to make sure we continue to grow the
:07:56. > :07:59.economy. That is why Liberal Democrats went into coalition. I
:08:00. > :08:02.will be working on rail infrastructure, that is crucially
:08:03. > :08:07.important. With Nick Clegg as leader, as many of your activists
:08:08. > :08:10.believe, as many of your former councillors, former MPs, Matthew
:08:11. > :08:14.Oakeshott is not the only one who believes this. If no-one will listen
:08:15. > :08:17.to the case you are trying to make under Nick Clegg, surely Matthew
:08:18. > :08:21.Oakeshott is right? You can argue we need to make our case better. I
:08:22. > :08:25.would agree with that. We do need people to know, for example, that on
:08:26. > :08:30.the face of our manifesto we said we would cut taxes from the bottom. As
:08:31. > :08:33.a result, 24 million people this year have ?800 in their pockets.
:08:34. > :08:36.Apprenticeships. Do you think this would have happened without Liberal
:08:37. > :08:39.Democrats in Government? Will anybody listen to that if Nick Clegg
:08:40. > :08:43.is still in charge? Isn't what happened today, you shot the mess
:08:44. > :08:47.injury because you don't like the message? It's a responsibility for
:08:48. > :08:53.all of us to get the message out. This does not rest on one shoulder.
:08:54. > :08:56.We a party. We are like a family. Nick Clegg has led us through a
:08:57. > :09:01.unique time for the Liberal Democrats. It is not the time now to
:09:02. > :09:05.go all intro spective. We have a job to do in Government and a message to
:09:06. > :09:08.get out. That is what we need to get on with. Thank you very much for
:09:09. > :09:12.coming into the studio and giving us your message this evening. You might
:09:13. > :09:15.expect that a rise in the number of people of different creeds and
:09:16. > :09:20.colours living in Britain would be matched by a rise in tolerance. Not
:09:21. > :09:25.so, according to researchers, who have claimed today that Britain is
:09:26. > :09:29.becoming more racist. Their statistics suggest nearly a third of
:09:30. > :09:33.people admit they harbour some kind of prejudice. But have attitudes
:09:34. > :09:39.really hardened in recent years? We've been to Oldham, scene in 2001,
:09:40. > :09:41.of some of the worst race riots in memory, to see how people there feel
:09:42. > :09:57.about prejudice now. 10 years ago the National Front were
:09:58. > :10:01.coming in and causing problems. Gathering up in pubs. Things have
:10:02. > :10:10.got better, mate. They have got a lot better. I would say, you know,
:10:11. > :10:14.racism is very, very low. Very low. This area itself is full of Asians.
:10:15. > :10:17.We have got a lot of different people from different countries
:10:18. > :10:22.coming here as well. A lot of Romanians coming as well. Yeah,
:10:23. > :10:26.other than that, it's good. Everyone gets on about colour or race or
:10:27. > :10:31.religion or everything. Everyone just gets on. Maybe a few years ago,
:10:32. > :10:39.yeah, there was more racism, but no, we don't say that now. It is like
:10:40. > :10:51.you said, a mixed community up here. I have been in this country since
:10:52. > :10:56.2006, and I'm very happy here. I came here with an empty hand. I'm
:10:57. > :11:04.from Pakistan. I met different people here. I never see any kind of
:11:05. > :11:10.issue of (inaudible) It's more with the younger kids. The kids have
:11:11. > :11:27.trouble with orchids, but nothing major. They get chased, name called
:11:28. > :11:32.and that. Started punching you. Just calling you a "white boy" and that.
:11:33. > :11:35.Your dad went round to the house. Found out where they lived and went
:11:36. > :11:44.round to their house. It never happened again. We are Muslim,
:11:45. > :11:48.that's something we are proud of and we're happy with. We won't change
:11:49. > :11:54.that for anything. It doesn't matter what colour skin you are or
:11:55. > :11:59.anything. You can get called names because of the colour of your hair,
:12:00. > :12:02.don't you? It doesn't matter. The EDL, National Front, whoever they
:12:03. > :12:06.are, they have to remember, we are British, they can't take that us
:12:07. > :12:10.away from us. If our country ever went to war here, the UK, we would
:12:11. > :12:15.fight for our Queen, of course we would. I'm born and bred here. All
:12:16. > :12:19.my neighbours have been here since I've been born. Never been a
:12:20. > :12:25.problem. We have always got on. Send them curries around now and then. We
:12:26. > :12:31.have no problems. They're happy. Here with us now to talk about how
:12:32. > :12:34.attitudes to race have changed in the past generation are Girish
:12:35. > :12:40.Mehta, who came to this country in 1972, fleeing the regime of Idi Amin
:12:41. > :12:46.in Uganda and his daughter, Binita, who was born in Watford and is now a
:12:47. > :12:50.Conservative Cllr there. -- councillor there. How did people
:12:51. > :12:56.respond to you when you arrived in the UK? When we landed in Stansted
:12:57. > :13:01.we went to a refugee camp in Devon where we stayed for six months.
:13:02. > :13:04.There after we were in Lincolnshire for a few months and went to
:13:05. > :13:15.Glasgow, aided by a family friend. My earliest memories of Glasgow, we
:13:16. > :13:19.were in Pollock. My brother and I, we were nonwhite people in the whole
:13:20. > :13:24.school. You could imagine what a shock it was. There were no familiar
:13:25. > :13:30.faces, as such. The earliest memories of the school - this wasn't
:13:31. > :13:34.due to maliciousness, because we were different, we weren't sure how
:13:35. > :13:39.people would take us on. Was there malice towards you or curiousity or
:13:40. > :13:43.prejudice? More curiousity. I think it was definitely more curiousity. I
:13:44. > :13:48.don't think there was maliciousness there at all. In Glasgow, at the
:13:49. > :13:53.time, it was more sectarian. Protestant and Catholic more than
:13:54. > :13:59.racism. During then your childhood and then your youth, as you entered
:14:00. > :14:03.adulthood, did you though experience unpleasantness, racism as we would
:14:04. > :14:07.call it? There were always instances. We used to run to school
:14:08. > :14:12.and run back home. Not because of the maliciousness, the fear to see
:14:13. > :14:17.what would happen. We used to be taunted, that was quite a big thing
:14:18. > :14:22.at the moment. Taunted with the "B" word as such. As time went on, more
:14:23. > :14:26.people were actually coming into Scotland. More nonwhite people were
:14:27. > :14:30.coming in. Binita what was your experience like? You heard your dad
:14:31. > :14:34.talking about his experiences? Very different. Growing up and being born
:14:35. > :14:38.in Watford meant I was already going to school with a variety of
:14:39. > :14:42.different people from different backgrounds and very diverse
:14:43. > :14:47.environment. So, hearing that from my dad, and seeing his experience
:14:48. > :14:49.from his perspective, is a world away from mine. Obviously, in the
:14:50. > :15:00.same country, it's so different. research project which is carried on
:15:01. > :15:06.for years and years suggest we might be going back that way. Do you not
:15:07. > :15:11.recognise that? I don't agree with that at all. We are so much more
:15:12. > :15:16.tolerant in society now than when my dad first came to this country. It
:15:17. > :15:20.is scary for me to see the people thinking they would be more racist
:15:21. > :15:24.and I think the data is slightly skewed in that sense because it's
:15:25. > :15:29.not the reality. Do you think, though, some other nationalities now
:15:30. > :15:33.arriving in the UK, Romanians, Bulgarians, could be experiencing
:15:34. > :15:37.the same things? Would it economic climate as it is, and the economic
:15:38. > :15:42.situation, things changed slightly and I think it's more of the picture
:15:43. > :15:47.at the time rather than a trend because certain times, certain
:15:48. > :15:50.circumstances, sometimes it's a snapshot, and gives you a different
:15:51. > :15:54.picture of what the actual picture actually is in the country. Did you
:15:55. > :16:02.ever think your daughter would become a counsellor, for one of the
:16:03. > :16:06.main street that stream parties? Absolutely full to it that on
:16:07. > :16:12.integration, I don't know what is. When she's out campaigning, I don't
:16:13. > :16:17.think she actually comes across racism as such. I have never really
:16:18. > :16:21.come across racism at all in my upbringing especially on the
:16:22. > :16:23.doorstep. Meeting people when there are fears and concerns about
:16:24. > :16:29.immigration, it's never directed towards me. Do you think you've had
:16:30. > :16:32.your family life in Watford, a relatively mixed part of the
:16:33. > :16:38.country, where there are many people from different creeds and colours
:16:39. > :16:43.and cultures. Do you think that a patchwork exists in the country and
:16:44. > :16:45.in other that you chose to have stayed in Scotland, Devon, your
:16:46. > :16:52.experience could have been different? Yes, as the research
:16:53. > :16:57.shows, in the inner cities it a different picture whereas a up north
:16:58. > :17:03.or going to the country, because of ignorance and the fact people are
:17:04. > :17:07.not more familiar with the so-called non-English people, it becomes a
:17:08. > :17:10.bigger issue, possibly, I think. Thanks so much for coming in and
:17:11. > :17:14.talking to us. Thank you. The reassuring thing about bubbles
:17:15. > :17:17.is that, in the end, they burst. But the Bank of England is currently
:17:18. > :17:21.trying to decide whether it's better to pop what looks very much
:17:22. > :17:24.like a property bubble in some parts of the countre on purpose, or let
:17:25. > :17:27.the madness continue, hoping that As our economics correspondent,
:17:28. > :17:32.Duncan Weldon reports, it's not an If you, like a lot of people,
:17:33. > :17:44.enjoy talking about house prices, there is a fancy new phrase you can
:17:45. > :17:47.drop into the conversation. That's right,
:17:48. > :17:55.macro prudential regulation. Just rolls off the tongue,
:17:56. > :17:59.doesn't it? Like a lot in economics,
:18:00. > :18:03.this is a really complicated way The Bank of England might be
:18:04. > :18:07.about to make it harder One of the things we learned
:18:08. > :18:18.in the 2000s was trying to have control of the economy by interest
:18:19. > :18:21.rates isn't a good idea so if you're trying to calm the housing
:18:22. > :18:24.market, raising interest rates can So macro prudential regulation tries
:18:25. > :18:33.to either make it more difficult and expensive for lenders to do risky
:18:34. > :18:36.lending or they try and control the Since the recession,
:18:37. > :18:41.the Bank of England has been given a whole new toolkit of policies
:18:42. > :18:49.so what's in the box? The power to recommend that changes
:18:50. > :18:52.are made to Help To Buy. The scheme where the government will
:18:53. > :18:55.help people with small deposits by Or the bank could make it
:18:56. > :18:59.more expensive for mortgage If this isn't enough, then the
:19:00. > :19:06.bank can take more direct action. For example,
:19:07. > :19:08.putting a limit on the size of loans These tools might prove to
:19:09. > :19:14.be pretty controversial. Especially amongst
:19:15. > :19:17.those most affected. I don't think there's a need to
:19:18. > :19:28.restrict mortgage availability here at the moment but if the Bank of
:19:29. > :19:32.England felt that was appropriate at some point down the line, we'd have
:19:33. > :19:36.to be very careful that they didn't institute measures
:19:37. > :19:37.which did restrict housing supply. The government has said there are
:19:38. > :19:43.deep problems in this country and he was referring to
:19:44. > :19:46.the low levels of house building. He would be mindful that any
:19:47. > :19:49.Midwich I got the interest The reason the bank is considering
:19:50. > :19:54.using its new tools is that in some parts of the country, but by no
:19:55. > :19:58.means all, house prices are soaring. According to official figures, they
:19:59. > :20:02.rose by 8% in the year to March. To put that another way, in the last
:20:03. > :20:13.year, the average London property earned ?6.96 an hour and it worked
:20:14. > :20:17.24 hours a day seven days a week. To some economists,
:20:18. > :20:20.that sounds a bit, well, bubbly. The housing market never left
:20:21. > :20:23.the bubble. Between 97-2007 the level
:20:24. > :20:55.of house prices tripled. National statistics obscure
:20:56. > :20:57.as much as they reveal. For regional patterns,
:20:58. > :20:59.it's much more varied. In London, the average
:21:00. > :21:01.home now costs ?459,000. But in the north-east,
:21:02. > :21:03.it's just 148,000. These big differences mean the Bank
:21:04. > :21:06.of England could take more targeted So, for example, they helped
:21:07. > :21:10.by guarantee is currently available Cut that to 300,000,
:21:11. > :21:14.and it would still help people in the north-east but would be far
:21:15. > :21:17.less effective in London. The big rise
:21:18. > :21:19.in the capital is often thought of as being driven by what is known
:21:20. > :21:23.as the prime central London market. Cash buyers, some of them
:21:24. > :21:26.from overseas, have snapped up places like this currently
:21:27. > :21:33.on the market for over ?7 million. Through to the kitchen,
:21:34. > :21:35.under floor heating. New mortgage rules came
:21:36. > :21:39.into effect in April. Lenders now have to ask much
:21:40. > :21:42.tougher questions on spending habits to check the borrower can
:21:43. > :21:48.really afford the payments. Today Nationwide, one of Britain's
:21:49. > :21:51.biggest loan providers, said there was a slowing down in the
:21:52. > :21:54.marketplace particularly in London. Prices may well be rising, but
:21:55. > :22:01.activity, certainly in the last two or three months, mortgage values are
:22:02. > :22:04.beginning to decline from still a You normally find
:22:05. > :22:07.in a housing market cycle that London leads so normally price
:22:08. > :22:32.growth starts in central London because this is the engine of UK
:22:33. > :22:36.economy and you begin to see that So far, the ripple effect of rising
:22:37. > :22:41.central London prices haven't really But it can be felt in the suburbs
:22:42. > :22:47.and the surrounding commuter belt. One example is Walthamstow
:22:48. > :22:50.in the east of the city. It's not the kind of place that
:22:51. > :22:53.Russian oligarchs go shopping for a luxury pad but it tasted is
:22:54. > :22:57.said to have more estate agents than You do get your own entrance door
:22:58. > :23:02.at the front which is great. This is a two-bedroom
:23:03. > :23:04.flat that's just sold. This one went under offer
:23:05. > :23:07.at the weekend, Is that a big move over
:23:08. > :23:11.the last few years? We sold pretty much back to the same
:23:12. > :23:17.flat about four years ago in the same road, two-bedroom, first floor
:23:18. > :23:19.that achieved 165,000. On streets like this,
:23:20. > :23:21.prices have basically doubled So it's no surprise people
:23:22. > :23:25.are talking about a bubble. A bubble implies an market
:23:26. > :23:29.completely detached from reality. The simple fact is, lots of people
:23:30. > :23:33.want to move to places like this. And housing supply isn't keeping
:23:34. > :23:36.up with all that demand. Add in low interest rates
:23:37. > :23:38.and you got all the ingredients That might not be something to
:23:39. > :23:43.welcome, So if the issue is that
:23:44. > :23:52.we're not building enough, It's welcome that we have macro
:23:53. > :24:01.prudential regulation tools. What is unproven anywhere in the
:24:02. > :24:05.world is that using macro prudential regulation tools like restricting
:24:06. > :24:07.mortgage availability and so on has sufficient impact on its own
:24:08. > :24:11.without monetary policy working. Messing
:24:12. > :24:21.around with mortgage guarantees Macro prudential regulation
:24:22. > :24:25.might not be the catchiest phrase But it is the new big thing
:24:26. > :24:29.in central banking. It could take some demand out
:24:30. > :24:37.of the market but unless a supply picks up, over the longer run,
:24:38. > :24:45.house prices will keep on rising. Our obsession with house prices
:24:46. > :24:49.and wealth is one of the reasons why, according to one of the left's
:24:50. > :24:51.most prominent intellectuals, we are all, more or less,
:24:52. > :24:55.on the way to hell in a handcart. David Marquand has influenced
:24:56. > :24:57.politicians from Roy Jenkins to Gordon Brown
:24:58. > :25:01.over the past few decades. His latest book, Mammon's Kingdom,
:25:02. > :25:04.paints the UK as a greedy society fixated
:25:05. > :25:10.on cash that cannot go on as it is. I asked him earlier if we'd learned
:25:11. > :25:26.anything from the 2008 crash. I thought I had immediately
:25:27. > :25:30.afterwards but I'm afraid to think no, it didn't. The governor of the
:25:31. > :25:33.Bank of England is saying the same kind of behaviour patterns that
:25:34. > :25:37.existed before the crash scene to be coming back. You can tend in the
:25:38. > :25:42.book that here in Britain we are more ardent worshippers of Mammon
:25:43. > :25:47.than any other country. Why do you say that? I don't say than any other
:25:48. > :25:53.country but I say any other big country, big European country. We
:25:54. > :25:57.are not more ardent worshippers of Mammon than the USA and many other
:25:58. > :26:05.social ills that come from inequality in Britain are from the
:26:06. > :26:10.USA, and they are there in much worse form. I'm not saying nobody
:26:11. > :26:13.worships Mammon in Germany, France, Italy, but I do think we have been
:26:14. > :26:18.more ardent worshippers of Mammon than other large western
:26:19. > :26:24.democracies. What do you put that down to? I think it goes back quite
:26:25. > :26:32.a long way, actually. Indeed, I tried to say this in the book.
:26:33. > :26:37.There's been a sort of... The state and financial sector are big Siamese
:26:38. > :26:40.twins almost in this country in a way which is not true of other
:26:41. > :26:45.countries. Actually since the beginning of the 18th-century, but
:26:46. > :26:49.right back then, the foundation of the Bank of England at the end of
:26:50. > :26:53.the 17th century and the foundation of the national debt which is more
:26:54. > :27:00.or less contemporaneous, actually created a very curious kind of sin
:27:01. > :27:04.by a Swiss to use another pompous word, between the political elite
:27:05. > :27:11.and the financial elite. But the success of that sector has also
:27:12. > :27:15.brought enormous wealth to the country through the payment of tax
:27:16. > :27:18.revenues, which have been available for successive governments to spend.
:27:19. > :27:24.You can't really have one without the other. Well, you don't have to
:27:25. > :27:29.have this degree of the dominance of the financial sector and I think
:27:30. > :27:36.it's been very unhealthy. Also, it's true that a very large amount of the
:27:37. > :27:41.wealth that has been treated by the financial sector has been
:27:42. > :27:46.squirrelled away in tax havens and the avoidance of tax has been pretty
:27:47. > :27:52.remarkable, so I don't think we should think that we've been the
:27:53. > :27:57.nation as a whole has necessarily benefited very much from the
:27:58. > :28:03.dynamism and undoubtedly miss the financial sector. Successive
:28:04. > :28:06.politicians including from the left, and you are seen as an intellectual
:28:07. > :28:13.godfather to some on the left, having courage development in the
:28:14. > :28:18.city. How has that been allowed to happen? At any stage, having told
:28:19. > :28:22.politicians to stop it? I'm not in any party at the moment. I did have
:28:23. > :28:27.a curious flirtatious ablation shipped with Gordon Brown but it was
:28:28. > :28:37.about constitutional reform, not about finance. I think Gordon Brown
:28:38. > :28:46.was, in this respect, he was a disaster. He actually boasted, he
:28:47. > :28:59.said not just light touch regulation but unlimited touch regulation, and
:29:00. > :29:07.we were engaged in the period when Gordon Brown was Chancellor of the
:29:08. > :29:08.Exchequer, in a kind of competition with America to undercut the
:29:09. > :29:08.regulations that they had so that we would get a business in the city
:29:09. > :29:09.from Wall Street. Just briefly, would get a business in the city
:29:10. > :29:09.may, given your past record, Exchequer, in a kind of competition
:29:10. > :29:12.Lord Oakeshott someone you would have come across in your career.
:29:13. > :29:18.What you make of what has happened today? I like him as a person.
:29:19. > :29:22.Here's a bit of a bull in a china shop, actually. I've seen this
:29:23. > :29:30.happen before but never like this, and I think he's clearly blown it.
:29:31. > :29:34.When I was an MP in the 1970s, I thought Harold Wilson was a dreadful
:29:35. > :29:38.person. I don't now full that I think I was very silly and very
:29:39. > :29:42.young. I was involved in all sorts of plots to get rid of Harold
:29:43. > :29:50.Wilson. And it didn't do him any harm at all and it possibly
:29:51. > :29:53.strengthened him, actually. Thank you very much for talking to us.
:29:54. > :30:01.Thank you for having me. Now who would take on the London
:30:02. > :30:04.cabbie or, for that matter, Phone apps that allow minicabs to
:30:05. > :30:08.scoop up their fares now face a legal challenge to stop them
:30:09. > :30:10.operating. Newsnight has learned that London's
:30:11. > :30:12.taxi regulator. Transport For London,
:30:13. > :30:14.will tomorrow begin seeking the high court's opinion as to whether
:30:15. > :30:18.a minicab app is legal or illegal. What happens could affect
:30:19. > :30:24.the trade up and down the country. Here's our technology editor
:30:25. > :30:30.David Grossman. NEWS REEL:
:30:31. > :30:34.Minute cabs have begun to invade the streets of London. Taxi drivers
:30:35. > :30:38.think, blimey, they will be using scooters next! This isn't the first
:30:39. > :30:42.time that London cabbies have seen their livelihoods under threat from
:30:43. > :30:47.newcomers. These days, it's something more advance than a
:30:48. > :30:52.stretched Fiat. What has got the cabbies worried is uber. It's a car
:30:53. > :30:58.company that runs via a smartphone app. I can just jab a couple of
:30:59. > :31:02.buttons here and select a cab. I can see who the cab driver is. In this
:31:03. > :31:08.case, it's Ben. The car he's driving. It 's a Toyota, the
:31:09. > :31:14.registration number and even how far away he is. He should be getting
:31:15. > :31:18.here fairly quickly, according to this! Let me just check you look
:31:19. > :31:27.like your picture. I suppose that is you. Hello, Ben. Hello, David. Can I
:31:28. > :31:32.get in? London black taxis are an I con of London. I'm a Londoner. I
:31:33. > :31:43.love black taxis I'm sure they are here to say. -- stay. Transport of
:31:44. > :31:49.London welcome the use of smartphone apps. The Black Cab drivers were
:31:50. > :31:54.given two important protections. The first one, taxi! You can only do
:31:55. > :31:57.this with a Black Cab. If you want a minicab, you have to ring up the
:31:58. > :32:04.office and they will despatch someone out to you. Protection
:32:05. > :32:09.number two, that thing up there that you struggle to keep your eyes off,
:32:10. > :32:13.the meter. Only a licensed taxi is allowed to have a meter, with a
:32:14. > :32:21.minicab, you have to agree the fare in advance. According to the law, no
:32:22. > :32:25.minicab shall be equipped with a taxi meter. Which is defined as a
:32:26. > :32:28.device for calculating the fare to be charged in respect of any journey
:32:29. > :32:32.by reference to the distance travelled or time elapsed since the
:32:33. > :32:39.start of the journey, or combination of both. So how does Uber work out
:32:40. > :32:44.its fares? The driver hits the start button on his iPhone when we go. At
:32:45. > :32:48.the end he hits stop. When I get my bill for the journey, which is
:32:49. > :32:52.charged to my credit card, I can see it's based both on the distance
:32:53. > :32:57.travelled and the time taken. It it is therefore a meter, cry the London
:32:58. > :33:04.cabbies. It's, therefore, illegal. We haven't got any objections to
:33:05. > :33:06.Uber what so ever. What we have problems with is Transport for
:33:07. > :33:11.London not enfortsing the law. It's a meter as far as anyone is
:33:12. > :33:16.concerned. How can a device that measures, time, distance and
:33:17. > :33:20.calculates the fare not be a meter. The cabbies are planning a legal
:33:21. > :33:23.challenge and a protest which will, they say, bring thereoned a
:33:24. > :33:29.standstill on June 11th. Other cities in the world have had similar
:33:30. > :33:34.Uber-inspired demonstrations. Uber say this is is matter for
:33:35. > :33:36.regulators. The roll of Transport for London is to regulate the
:33:37. > :33:41.industry. That is really a question for them. We very much welcome their
:33:42. > :33:45.statement a few weeks ago welcoming smartphone apps in the private hire
:33:46. > :33:50.industry. I think it's important to know the intent behind that
:33:51. > :33:55.regulation is public safety. That is where Uber goes above and beyond.
:33:56. > :33:58.Newsnight understands as early as tomorrow Transport for London will
:33:59. > :34:02.commence legal proceedings to get the High Court to give a binding
:34:03. > :34:05.judgment as to whether Uber is legal or illegal. The hope being that will
:34:06. > :34:11.be enough to get the cabbies to call off their protest. Uber isn't the
:34:12. > :34:16.end of this disruptive technological journey. One of their biggest
:34:17. > :34:22.shareholders is Google, they announced they will begin building
:34:23. > :34:27.these driveless cars. If this project works, Uber, or something
:34:28. > :34:32.like this will power a driverless taxi revolution. Using cars that
:34:33. > :34:38.look similar to those old minicab Fiats. "My mission in life is not
:34:39. > :34:43.merely to survive, but to thrive. And to do so some passion, some
:34:44. > :34:47.compassion, some humour and some style." Anglesey probably described
:34:48. > :34:52.the way she lived her life bitter than anyone else will in the coming
:34:53. > :34:57.days as she is mourned. The American author of I Know Why the Caged Bird
:34:58. > :35:00.Sings died today. Tonight, artists, performers, even Presidents, are
:35:01. > :35:07.vying to pay tribute. With his, here's Stephen Smith. My life ain't
:35:08. > :35:13.heaven, but it sure ain't hell. I'm not on top, but I call it swell. If
:35:14. > :35:25.I'm able to work, and get paid right, and have the luck to be black
:35:26. > :35:31.on a Saturday night. Hey! They say write what you know. Anglesey had
:35:32. > :35:49.plenty to draw on. Most of it come by the hard way. Raised by her
:35:50. > :36:03.grandmother in the south. She was raped by her mother's boyfriend when
:36:04. > :36:04.still a child. It shocked her into a silence that lasted five years.
:36:05. > :36:05.During which she read and read. I remember never believing that whites
:36:06. > :36:07.were really real. White folks couldn't be people because their
:36:08. > :36:10.feet were too small. Their skin too white and see throughy. She was a
:36:11. > :36:14.singer and dancer and toured Europe. She had a spell as a journalist and
:36:15. > :36:18.then came the volumes of autobiography which made her name.
:36:19. > :36:29.Telling a story America had hardly heard before. By the 90s her work
:36:30. > :36:34.was heard in a presidential inauguration. History, despite its
:36:35. > :36:50.renting pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be
:36:51. > :36:58.lived again. . I thought. She was eternal. I thought she would always,
:36:59. > :37:09.always be there. And the second thing was. It hurts so much that I
:37:10. > :37:19.have no credible, elegant, powerful, even interesting words to say what I
:37:20. > :37:24.feel about that. Maya Angelou told Jerry Paxman how she overcame her
:37:25. > :37:31.fear of death. The fear of death visited me so, so real, so palpable,
:37:32. > :37:39.at a couple of times in my late teens and my early 20s. Then somehow
:37:40. > :37:48.I lived through it. And came to the condition of admitting that I will
:37:49. > :37:54.die. Admitting that is incredible. Because it lib rates one.
:37:55. > :38:00.With us from New York is the novelist and professor of creative
:38:01. > :38:06.writing Tayari Jones and in the studio the poet and author, Ben
:38:07. > :38:15.Okri. To you, Tayari Jones, explain her significance, particularly to
:38:16. > :38:21.African-Americans? You know, Maya Angelou wrote her famous memoir, I
:38:22. > :38:26.Know Why the Caged Bird Sings in 1969. Keep in mind, in 1945, Richard
:38:27. > :38:34.White had written Black Boy which was said to be the definitive black,
:38:35. > :38:38.southern coming age during Jim Crow. 15 years later comes this amazing
:38:39. > :38:43.memoir of I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. That is a woman's story. Her
:38:44. > :38:47.story was told in a way in the intro said, "a story that America hadn't
:38:48. > :38:51.heard" I think for African-Americans, for many ways, it
:38:52. > :38:57.was a story we had heard, but had not yet read. Even with that just
:38:58. > :39:03.the recognition of seeing one's self in print. She broke such a taboo in
:39:04. > :39:09.writing about her rape. Now, lots of people write memoirs and they talk
:39:10. > :39:14.about rape and sexual violence, but in 1969, she really broke ground.
:39:15. > :39:18.She opened the door so wide that younger writers, like me, don't even
:39:19. > :39:23.know necessarily that there was once a door there. I think that's what
:39:24. > :39:28.happens when trailblazers do their work well. We forget that there was
:39:29. > :39:33.ever a block there. I think that is one of the real significance of her
:39:34. > :39:37.legacy, but there are One of many. The big significance is her role in
:39:38. > :39:44.the civil rights campaign. It wasn't just her writing about her own life,
:39:45. > :39:52.but her political role? I mean, absolutely. I mean, she was good
:39:53. > :39:58.friends with Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. She wrote, but lived a
:39:59. > :40:03.life that was interested in transformation. She was a true
:40:04. > :40:10.citizen of the world. She lived in Cairo, lived in Ghana. I think her
:40:11. > :40:15.experiences growing up in the Jim Crow Southmead her curious about a
:40:16. > :40:22.larger world. She wasn't in exile, the way some of the others were in
:40:23. > :40:24.exile when they were abroad. She was just Wydening her community.
:40:25. > :40:30.Bringing others into the fold. All of which enriched her writing. Ben
:40:31. > :40:33.Okri, in terms of her writing, she wasn't universal popular with all
:40:34. > :40:39.authors. What do you make of what she achieved as a literary figure? I
:40:40. > :40:48.think she achieved something very significant. As you heard Tayari
:40:49. > :40:53.say. She didn't invent the bearing witness memoir, she certainly
:40:54. > :41:00.transformed it. She enriched it. She wrote a very lyrical, under stated
:41:01. > :41:04.pros that reflected very, very carefully minutely the details of
:41:05. > :41:10.African-American life in the early part of the 20th Century. She wrote
:41:11. > :41:17.carefully. She wrote with passion. And, heretic territory is the
:41:18. > :41:20.territory of the memoir. Of the autobiographicle writing. It's a
:41:21. > :41:25.powerful tradition in African-American writing, by the
:41:26. > :41:31.way. That is an area you have played with in your writing. What did she
:41:32. > :41:37.mean to your writing? To many of us, throughout Africa, and in England,
:41:38. > :41:42.she was a very inspiring figure. Because she spoke very eloquently
:41:43. > :41:47.about survival. Under very difficult circumstances. Survival with grace
:41:48. > :41:50.and forgiveness and understanding. She reached across in her writing
:41:51. > :41:54.and as a person to different communities. I remember once a very
:41:55. > :41:59.beautiful reading she gave, where she was talking about the love
:42:00. > :42:04.poetry of Lang son Hughes. She was concerned about bridging the gap
:42:05. > :42:08.across againeders. I think many people that I spoke today, they
:42:09. > :42:12.called me up, left message on my cell phone saying how deeply touched
:42:13. > :42:17.they were at her passing. She meant a lot to individuals who were aware
:42:18. > :42:22.of the difficulty of life. She trance figured this in her writing.
:42:23. > :42:30.Did she manage, through her writing, to bridge that divide between the
:42:31. > :42:36.genders? Absolutely. I mean, you may know she was very influential to a
:42:37. > :42:51.whole generation of even hip-hop stars. Tpau connected with her. She
:42:52. > :42:59.made a joke and called him Six Pack. She balanced art and commerce. She
:43:00. > :43:03.kind of felt like everyone's aunt, everyone who provided wise counsel
:43:04. > :43:06.and also who listened. You meet so many people who are every day
:43:07. > :43:10.people. Yes, she was friends with the stars, you can meet every day
:43:11. > :43:16.people at a book event. You say that you are a writer. They may say, do
:43:17. > :43:22.you know Dr Angelou? I would say, I met her a few times. They would say
:43:23. > :43:27.- I know her, she has been to my house. She connected with people
:43:28. > :43:31.across all kind of lines, she was a true citizen of the world. She never
:43:32. > :43:37.stopped growing, changing and learning. She understood the way we
:43:38. > :43:41.grow, we change, we learn is through connection with people across any
:43:42. > :43:45.barrier. OK. Tayari Jones in New York and Ben here with us in the
:43:46. > :43:53.studio. Thank you for joining us. He has solved some of the greatest
:43:54. > :43:56.mysteries of the universe. Stephen Hawking's turned his considerable
:43:57. > :44:00.brain power to one of the biggest unsolved puzzles. Why is the England
:44:01. > :44:08.football team never quite as good as its fans expect it to be? One of
:44:09. > :44:15.that benighted number, our reporter Jim Reed, went to hear what the
:44:16. > :44:22.Professor'S predictions of what will success mean or failure at this
:44:23. > :44:25.year's tournament. Heartbreak, missed penalties, shattered dreams.
:44:26. > :44:29.England fans are of course used to it all.
:44:30. > :44:38.COMMENTATOR: A red card for David Beckham. Now though our best-known
:44:39. > :44:45.scientists thinks he can help out. -- scientist. Professor Hawking has
:44:46. > :44:50.analysed every tournament since 1966 for the bookmakers Paddy power, he
:44:51. > :44:58.says he never bets on sports and has donated his veto charity. As we say
:44:59. > :45:02.in science... The bad news, England don't stand much of a chance, the
:45:03. > :45:07.heat will be a problem. Brazil should lift the Cup this summer. It
:45:08. > :45:11.is of course more complex than that. So we asked one of the world's most
:45:12. > :45:13.celebrated minds the big important questions you would expect from
:45:14. > :45:27.Newsnight. scorer this summer? I'm going to
:45:28. > :45:33.stay -- say Daniel Sturridge. You don't need to be a big
:45:34. > :45:38.mathematicians to work this out. If the scores once every 108 minutes,
:45:39. > :45:46.compared to Wayne Rooney, once every 144 minutes, he is in the form of
:45:47. > :45:58.his life and Wayne Rooney has never scored in the World Cup final.
:45:59. > :46:05.When you look at penalties, who should be taking England's penalties
:46:06. > :46:16.from mathematical point of view? A no-brainer. 100% record this season.
:46:17. > :46:22.Lampard has been consistent from the spot. And Gerard. The fifth spot as
:46:23. > :46:26.the one I worry about. Neither Wayne Rooney or Daniel Sturridge have good
:46:27. > :46:31.records despite their otherwise great attacks on goal. What are the
:46:32. > :46:44.chances of us beating Germany this year? The answer is not great, I'm
:46:45. > :46:49.afraid. I'm assuming you are referencing the war. We have won
:46:50. > :46:54.only 33% of games against countries we have officially declared war on,
:46:55. > :47:06.compared to 58% of those that we haven't. Maybe our opponents.
:47:07. > :47:11.Germany has more of a history. Professor Hawking was just 24, the
:47:12. > :47:17.last time England won the World Cup. That second victory still feels a
:47:18. > :47:21.world away. But then statistics never tell the whole story. Surely
:47:22. > :47:27.even the top minds get it wrong sometimes. Place your bets now.
:47:28. > :47:30.That's all we have got time for. Good night.