13/06/2014

Download Subtitles

Transcript

:00:00. > :00:07.Has a decade of Western attempts to bring order

:00:08. > :00:15.The Iraqi army we paid blood and treasure to build is falling

:00:16. > :00:26.Did the 2003 war achieve anything of lasting value at all?

:00:27. > :00:32.A decade on is the country on the way to a violent and bloody breakup?

:00:33. > :00:47.We're devoting tonight's Newsnight to the crisis in Iraq.

:00:48. > :00:49.Extremists swear to continue their journey of destruction

:00:50. > :00:53.across Iraq, taking their fight all the way to Baghdad.

:00:54. > :00:58.Anyone who gets in their way - soldiers or civilians - gets killed.

:00:59. > :01:00.But President Obama tells what is left of Iraq's Government,

:01:01. > :01:07.Today's chaos may have some of its roots in Western failures,

:01:08. > :01:11.but no Western boots will touch Iraqi ground to help now.

:01:12. > :01:17.Tonight we'll hear from Iraq and Washington, asking

:01:18. > :01:28.First with his analysis our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban.

:01:29. > :01:37.After the shock of this week's set backs, Nouri Al-Maliki's Government

:01:38. > :01:44.has started to fight back and he has done so in Samarra, where ISIS

:01:45. > :01:48.fighters arrived this week. It is home to important Shia shrines.

:01:49. > :01:56.Nouri Al-Maliki was in Samarra today. His visit to the city is

:01:57. > :01:59.significant, because it is in the Sunni heartland of Iraq and it is an

:02:00. > :02:05.attempt to show that the armed forces are in control of strategic

:02:06. > :02:12.cities, even to the north of Baghdad and it is a symbolic visit, because

:02:13. > :02:19.it is home to one of Iraq's most sacred Shia shrines and in 2006 an

:02:20. > :02:25.attack there started a sectarian war. There is a determination to

:02:26. > :02:34.prevent that from happening again. ISIS can advance rapidly, because it

:02:35. > :02:38.is a guerrilla army. It headed past Kirkuk, where Kurdish fighters are

:02:39. > :02:44.in control and then tried to take Samarra, where it has met fierce

:02:45. > :02:52.resistance. Some fighters have pushed to the south. But ISIS is

:02:53. > :02:56.probably overstretched and government forces regrouping. In the

:02:57. > :03:02.long-term, I think the odds favour the Iraqi state, which has plenty of

:03:03. > :03:06.resources and advanced weaponry and has some good special operations

:03:07. > :03:11.forces that they can deploy against the militants in the north. The

:03:12. > :03:16.problem is that with today's announcement by Ali al-Sistani we

:03:17. > :03:23.may be entering a new phase where it is not just the Iraqi military that

:03:24. > :03:28.is fighting, but Shia militant and we could enter a new phase of the

:03:29. > :03:35.war. But the military have a long way to go. One deserter who fled to

:03:36. > :03:41.Mosul told the BBC about the collapse of military leadership.

:03:42. > :03:50.Transour commanders did not fight in 2004 I used to see the American

:03:51. > :03:54.officers, all ranks fighting alongside them and leading them. The

:03:55. > :03:57.problem is not because of the soldiers. If they had support,

:03:58. > :04:05.physical and mental, they would fight. But they saw that their

:04:06. > :04:12.commanders didn't fight. And a religious fight back has started

:04:13. > :04:24.too. The Shia clerical leadership issued a call to arms in Karbala.

:04:25. > :04:30.From here we call on all citizens who can carry weapons who can defend

:04:31. > :04:35.the country to volunteer and join the security forces to fulfil this

:04:36. > :04:40.sacred goal. With that, the volunteers headed for the coaches,

:04:41. > :04:45.ready to take the fight to ISIS. Today's sermon carried instantly

:04:46. > :04:50.into action. But empowering sectarian forces may sharpen Iraq's

:04:51. > :04:54.divisions and show up the crumbling of state institutions. It is those

:04:55. > :05:01.that t United States by its initiative hopes to strengthen. The

:05:02. > :05:05.US said it is looking at options to support the Nouri Al-Maliki

:05:06. > :05:10.Government, but America's quid pro quo is that Iraq's leader behave in

:05:11. > :05:16.a less sectarian fashion. We are not going to be able to do it for them.

:05:17. > :05:24.And given the very difficult history that we have seen in Iraq, I think

:05:25. > :05:30.that any objective observer would recognise that in the absence of

:05:31. > :05:37.accommodation among the factions in Iraq, various military actions by

:05:38. > :05:41.the United States, by any outside nation, are not going to solve those

:05:42. > :05:47.problems over the long-term and deliver the stability we need. So is

:05:48. > :05:52.America about to mount air strikes in support of a Government that has

:05:53. > :05:58.been backed by Iran? Well we are not there yet. But the US will step up

:05:59. > :06:03.deliveries of weapons, more intelligence too and try to

:06:04. > :06:07.co-ordinate the actions of Iraqi forces better. But if the position

:06:08. > :06:11.of Nouri Al-Maliki's Government continues to slide, it is possible

:06:12. > :06:19.that American air attacks could go ahead. ISIS has not been stopped,

:06:20. > :06:27.but a fight back has started. It extended to the Government blocking

:06:28. > :06:34.some Jihadist twirt -- Twitter accounts. But what could follow is

:06:35. > :06:39.prolonged civil strife. Paul Wood has been on the front line and he is

:06:40. > :06:48.in Iraq for us. You were in Kirkuk today what, did you witness? Well

:06:49. > :06:54.until yesterday, Kirkuk was shared between the Kurdish and the Iraqi

:06:55. > :06:59.army. But the Iraqi army simply melted away and the Kurds assumed

:07:00. > :07:06.control and that means that the front line now, the last line of

:07:07. > :07:10.defence against ISIS is the Kurdish peshmerga and two people were killed

:07:11. > :07:17.yesterday. What struck me yesterday was the commander there, a colonel,

:07:18. > :07:24.showing me a car park full of armoured vehicles and tanks

:07:25. > :07:29.abandoned by the Iraqi army. There was a huge pile of helmets. The

:07:30. > :07:34.army, which has been funded by the Americans to the tune of $15

:07:35. > :07:42.billion, simply did not stand andifies in places like Mosul. --

:07:43. > :07:47.stand and fight. Nouri Al-Maliki said this is where the fight back

:07:48. > :07:53.begins. But we spoke to a Sunni tribal sheik who, leads a militia,

:07:54. > :08:00.this is a man who two months ago had his son, wife and two members of his

:08:01. > :08:04.family murdered by ISIS. He is not going to cut and run. But he said,

:08:05. > :08:11.unless the British and Americans help us with air strikes, I don't

:08:12. > :08:16.know how long we can hold out. What is ISIS trying to achieve? Take over

:08:17. > :08:22.the whole country or just create chaos. Not just the whole country,

:08:23. > :08:29.they want to reshape the Middle East and dissolving the borders created

:08:30. > :08:34.after the World Wars and create a new state. But these the shock

:08:35. > :08:39.troops of a wider Sunni uprising targeting a Government that many

:08:40. > :08:51.feel is sectarian and dominated by Shi'ites. The terrorist that ISIS

:08:52. > :09:02.inspires means many Shi'ites are grouping around sectarian ground.

:09:03. > :09:10.With us now is Liam Fox and PJ Crowley, a former US sectarian of

:09:11. > :09:19.state and And I'm joined by the international relations direct for

:09:20. > :09:24.Iraq's ruling party. Liam Fox, isn't it an abdication of the UK and the

:09:25. > :09:28.United States to stand back and think about what to do when this is

:09:29. > :09:32.up fold something First, I think the Nouri Al-Maliki Government is

:09:33. > :09:35.suffering from the fact that it didn't agree a status of forces

:09:36. > :09:40.agreement with the United States, which would have led to the Iraqi

:09:41. > :09:44.officers continuing to be mentored and trained and there is a price for

:09:45. > :09:48.that. There is a price for the armaments that have gone into Syria

:09:49. > :09:54.to support rebels there. It is not clear what the Government of Iraq

:09:55. > :10:00.wants. It is vital however that ISIS are stopped, because the

:10:01. > :10:05.consequences of them achieving their objective would be catastrophic.

:10:06. > :10:10.Although Barack Obama has said that America wants s to stand back, were

:10:11. > :10:13.Nouri Al-Maliki to ask the United States for something like air power,

:10:14. > :10:19.it would be difficult for the president to resist that, given the

:10:20. > :10:23.consequences of what ISIS's success could be. The west must stop them.

:10:24. > :10:31.If they do not, then someone else could step in, Iran? You point to

:10:32. > :10:38.one of the potential consequences of the success of ISIS, in drawing

:10:39. > :10:45.other powers into the struggle in a catastrophic sectarian war. What

:10:46. > :10:48.does -- What does stopping them look like? Boots on the ground? The

:10:49. > :10:53.Iraqis must use the military forces they have and we have seen them in

:10:54. > :10:57.the past being able to take on insurgents and they should be able

:10:58. > :11:01.to do so again. But there is not that much sign of that, the Iraqi

:11:02. > :11:07.army has been melting away at this stage would you rule out putting

:11:08. > :11:12.western boots on the ground to stop ISIS, if that is the priority? I

:11:13. > :11:15.think there will be extreme reluctance by any western

:11:16. > :11:18.governments to do so. But I don't think at the moment given the

:11:19. > :11:22.potential consequences think at the moment given the

:11:23. > :11:26.success that anything can be ruled out. Although I do agree that

:11:27. > :11:30.success that anything can be ruled does look as though the Iraqi

:11:31. > :11:33.Government are starting some sort of fight back, not withstanding the

:11:34. > :11:43.pathetic efforts of their forces so far. PJ Crowley, your president

:11:44. > :11:49.pulled out troops too quickly and is now sitting in the White House

:11:50. > :11:55.thinking about the consequence and not prepare d to do anything? Well,

:11:56. > :11:59.first Iraq is a sovereign country and made its own decision not to

:12:00. > :12:04.meet the US conditions for a follow on mission. Obviously if we had

:12:05. > :12:09.10,000 US or British forces in Iraq, there would be useful. However, this

:12:10. > :12:15.was a decision that made in Iraq and there was no basis for the US to

:12:16. > :12:22.stay. That said, a lot will depend on first as Liam Fox said what the

:12:23. > :12:28.do the Iraqis do and what does ISIL do? Air I power could be an option,

:12:29. > :12:34.but you have to have a clear battle line and actually targets to hit. If

:12:35. > :12:40.ISIL melts back into cities, you could attack them but you woil

:12:41. > :12:46.probably injure or kill a lot of civilians. Your party was elected,

:12:47. > :12:51.but they did not want the west to stay and now Nouri Al-Maliki has

:12:52. > :13:01.failed entirely to bring the country together? What we have now is a

:13:02. > :13:10.situation where there is a militant terrorist group terroristising the

:13:11. > :13:15.-- terrorising the population. The cry from Ali al-Sistani goes to all

:13:16. > :13:21.the Iraqi community, Shias, Sunnis and Kurds to fight and defend

:13:22. > :13:26.themselves against this scourge. But President Obama and many, are they

:13:27. > :13:31.wrong too characterise like that as Nouri Al-Maliki's failure to bring

:13:32. > :13:37.together the two factions in the country? He has ruled as a

:13:38. > :13:42.sectarian, do you deny that? Yes, absolutely I deny that. Nouri

:13:43. > :13:47.Al-Maliki has tried to bring all sides together. He formed the state

:13:48. > :13:51.of law coalition which is a nonsectarian identity to bring all

:13:52. > :13:56.sides together. But the extremists Sunnis have been putting pressure on

:13:57. > :14:05.the moderates to try and derail that. Well, President Obama is

:14:06. > :14:11.wrong, Nouri Al-Maliki has not been sectarian? Well I think, Nouri

:14:12. > :14:14.Al-Maliki is behaving like a statesman this week, it is eight

:14:15. > :14:21.years too late in my opinion. He spent a lot of time attacking his

:14:22. > :14:27.Sunni political rivals. But most importantly, he has not taken the

:14:28. > :14:32.necessary steps as leader of Iraq to integrate the security forces, Kurd,

:14:33. > :14:37.Shia and Sunni, into an effective force that can be a model for the

:14:38. > :14:44.way governments have to function if Iraq is going to get stronger. There

:14:45. > :14:49.is no denying that, we have seen in just three days the army, fall away

:14:50. > :15:01.and people now say there is no such thing as the Iraqi government.

:15:02. > :15:07.Firstly, this extremist militant group, ISIS, has been working

:15:08. > :15:11.because it's an irregular army, has been working away and there are

:15:12. > :15:15.failures of the Iraqi army, there is no denying that. However, this

:15:16. > :15:20.terrorist group will not get any further. This is not failures of an

:15:21. > :15:24.army that you admit. We have seen pictures, the army has dissolved,

:15:25. > :15:28.people have escaped, they've ran away. The civilian population is

:15:29. > :15:35.left with no protection from these people. You talk as if it's a small

:15:36. > :15:39.group. This is an extremist, almost looks like an extremist army

:15:40. > :15:44.rampaging across the country. The point is this is - Maliki said this

:15:45. > :15:49.is a conspiracy and it's a conspiracy that's been - these

:15:50. > :15:52.people, these terrorists have been given material support, weapons,

:15:53. > :15:55.there is a vacuum which was created in Syria which allowed them to move

:15:56. > :16:02.across borders. There are no borders any more between Syria and Iraq.

:16:03. > :16:08.They are opportunists using this. They have shown their true face,

:16:09. > :16:12.which is an ugly face with executions of civilians today and

:16:13. > :16:15.yesterday. It is certainly an ugly and appalling face as we have all

:16:16. > :16:20.seen. Liam Fox, should it not be the case, if you care as you do, you

:16:21. > :16:24.will not rule out military action but actually if you care as

:16:25. > :16:27.passionately as you do about stopping these people, military

:16:28. > :16:32.intervention from the West is really the only way to do this? I don't

:16:33. > :16:35.think it's the only way to do it but I think it would be wrong to rule

:16:36. > :16:38.anything completely out at this point. I think there's been a

:16:39. > :16:43.failure of the Government. The point you made was correct, there's been a

:16:44. > :16:46.failure of the Government in Iraq. They failed to integrate their

:16:47. > :16:50.population sufficiently. They failed to engender ideas of Iraqi

:16:51. > :16:54.nationalism that would trump sectarian divide. Has there been a

:16:55. > :16:58.failure by the US and the UK, are you disappointed the British and

:16:59. > :17:02.American governments so far have ruled out military intervention and

:17:03. > :17:07.that's not what you suggest? Well, of course it was the Iraqis who

:17:08. > :17:11.actually didn't want to continue the military relationship. As of now...

:17:12. > :17:17.They're paying a price for that now. The question in the coming days will

:17:18. > :17:19.be whether Maliki can rise up as a statesman at this late stage,

:17:20. > :17:22.whether the military given the investment that's been made in their

:17:23. > :17:26.equipment and training can fight back and that remains to be seen and

:17:27. > :17:31.then I think the situation will have to be watched closely by the

:17:32. > :17:36.international community because the price of failure and the failure to

:17:37. > :17:44.confront and defeat ISIS could be catastrophic and could be felt well

:17:45. > :17:57.beyond that region. OK. Thank you all very much for joining us.

:17:58. > :17:59.The appalling violence is driven, at least in part,

:18:00. > :18:02.by grievance between Sunni and Shia Muslims - that's been built up

:18:03. > :18:05.over 14 centuries, and has not been contained by borders that have been

:18:06. > :18:07.Understanding the religious patchwork is crucial

:18:08. > :18:20.The Iraqi city of Karbala, here a dispute over the succession to the

:18:21. > :18:28.prophet Mohammed led to a battle in the 7th century that divided the

:18:29. > :18:38.Islamic world. Pilgrims still come here.

:18:39. > :18:49.From the 16th century to the 20th, the Ottoman empire was three

:18:50. > :18:53.separate Provinces. In the north with a Kurdish population, Sunni

:18:54. > :18:58.Baghdad and Basra in the south. A historic division to which Iraq now

:18:59. > :19:03.seems to be returning. The British invaded in 1914.en when

:19:04. > :19:07.The Empire collapsed, Britain and France carved the region up between

:19:08. > :19:13.them, drawing lines in the sand that fixed the international borders we

:19:14. > :19:17.know today. Britain bound the three old Provinces together to form the

:19:18. > :19:22.kingdom of Iraq, installing a new pro-British monarch from the Sunni

:19:23. > :19:28.dynasty whose cousins still rule neighbouring Jordan. The King was

:19:29. > :19:32.killed in a coup in 1958. A second coup five years later brought the

:19:33. > :19:39.Ba'ath Party to power and eventually Saddam Hussein.

:19:40. > :19:42.After the Gulf War of 19191 Iraqi Shias in the south rose against a

:19:43. > :19:47.weakened Saddam Hussein with US and British encouragement. The rebellion

:19:48. > :19:57.was brutally suppressed. Thousands were killed. The entire Shia

:19:58. > :20:00.population cowed. Minority Sunni hoity was restored. The overthrow of

:20:01. > :20:05.Saddam Hussein brought Shia majority rule to Iraq for the first time. It

:20:06. > :20:09.sent shockwaves around the Sunni Arab world, prompting fears of a

:20:10. > :20:21.so-called Shia crescent spreading through the region, bringing the

:20:22. > :20:27.influence of an old enemy, Iran. With us now is Roula Khalaf, foreign

:20:28. > :20:33.editor at the Financial Times. Despite the appalling violence is

:20:34. > :20:42.there a logic to Iraq breaking up? Not necessarily a logic. I think

:20:43. > :20:48.there might be enough ability - what I have noticed, is that not only in

:20:49. > :20:51.this crisis, but particularly in this crisis, every ethnic and

:20:52. > :20:55.religious group in Iraq is thinking a lot more about its own survival,

:20:56. > :21:01.its own existence and not about the existence of the state. If you see

:21:02. > :21:07.the reaction of the Shia, the real resistance is taking place where

:21:08. > :21:15.there is a Shia shrine. Nobody's tried to fight for Mosul. The Kurds

:21:16. > :21:21.did not push down from Kurdistan to try to retake Mosul. They went for

:21:22. > :21:25.Kirkuk. The logic is developing within the various groups in Iraq

:21:26. > :21:30.that perhaps we need to secure our own territory. Safety is leading

:21:31. > :21:34.people to turn inwards, but the country was an artificial construct

:21:35. > :21:38.in the first place. That's true but in the mooegs a lot of countries --

:21:39. > :21:41.in the Middle East a lot of countries, we can say dreamt up by

:21:42. > :21:47.foreign powers, the borders were dreamt up by foreign powers. We must

:21:48. > :21:51.not underestimate the extent to which national identity does develop

:21:52. > :21:56.and I find that people in the Middle East are actually attached to

:21:57. > :22:00.borders. A lot more attached to borders than western analysts tend

:22:01. > :22:04.to think. Isn't one of the really dangerous curiosities about this

:22:05. > :22:07.situation is we are seeing very unusual, surprising alliances

:22:08. > :22:13.developing, enemies becoming friends. The US and Assad being on

:22:14. > :22:17.the same side. Absolutely. This is the complexity of the Middle East

:22:18. > :22:24.today, of shifting alliances, shifting sands. In this crisis, for

:22:25. > :22:29.example, the US and Iran today find themselves on the same side. But do

:22:30. > :22:35.they really want to work together? Not necessarily. Iran's priority is

:22:36. > :22:42.the Shia in Iraq. The US's priority is the Iraqi state and the

:22:43. > :22:47.territorial integrity of Iraq. And a power-sharing arrangement between

:22:48. > :22:53.Iraq's various communities. Briefly, with your insights, are you pretty

:22:54. > :23:00.convinced there will be a split? I think that what you could see is for

:23:01. > :23:05.a while a sort of defacto partition, and perhaps then a political deal on

:23:06. > :23:19.a federal state. Thank you so much for coming in tonight.

:23:20. > :23:21.Wherever the pieces fall, there is little sign that the West

:23:22. > :23:24.has any intention of spilling its own blood on Iraqi soil again but

:23:25. > :23:27.the stain from the political fight from more than ten years ago still

:23:28. > :23:35.Iraq has weapons that could be activated within 45 minutes. We have

:23:36. > :23:38.never marched before. The numbers were huge, filling the wide streets

:23:39. > :23:42.of central London and stretching for several miles. We will stay on task

:23:43. > :23:50.until we have achieved our objective. Saddam Hussein, your days

:23:51. > :23:53.are numbered is the catchy refrain. Shock and awe was what the Americans

:23:54. > :23:58.promised, that's what they're delivering. This is how regime

:23:59. > :24:06.change was going to be defined today. It was a breathtaking image.

:24:07. > :24:09.John McTernan is a former special adviser to Tony Blair and previously

:24:10. > :24:19.And Clare Short is the former International Development

:24:20. > :24:22.Secretary who resigned from Tony Blair's Cabinet back in May 2003 in

:24:23. > :24:41.Surely you must deep down in your heart of hearts now have some

:24:42. > :24:48.doubts? Why should I have any doubts at all? We create a democracy in

:24:49. > :24:52.Iraq, there's a general election recently when people queued to vote,

:24:53. > :24:56.even though they knew, at the threat of their own lives from the

:24:57. > :25:02.terrorists, our job now is to go back in to support the Democrats, to

:25:03. > :25:08.support the Maliki Government and the Kurds in the autonomous region

:25:09. > :25:12.in the north. When you see terrorists executing civilians, you

:25:13. > :25:17.have no doubts, not a single shred, not even pausing for thought that

:25:18. > :25:23.maybe Britain was wrong? So what you are saying is we should have left a

:25:24. > :25:28.fascist dictator in place, a dictator who was committing genocide

:25:29. > :25:32.in his own country, gassing Arabs, and Kurds in the north and that

:25:33. > :25:35.would be better because then ISIS wouldn't be around now? That's

:25:36. > :25:39.immoral. I think that's completely immoral, that position. You would

:25:40. > :25:42.even argue we go back in to protect the scraps of what we tried to

:25:43. > :25:45.create? It's not scraps. This is a country with millions of people who

:25:46. > :25:50.just voted in a general election. People who wanted to vote in a

:25:51. > :25:53.general election. They're human beings there whose democracy we

:25:54. > :25:58.helped create, we need to help sustain it. If we don't do it now,

:25:59. > :26:04.this is a region-wide conflict now, the reason Iran is sending the

:26:05. > :26:09.Revolutionary Guard to the border is they understand the danger for the

:26:10. > :26:14.region. If we stand back this keeps on going. We got rid of a dictator

:26:15. > :26:16.and established democracy, the terrorists are attacking democracy.

:26:17. > :26:23.We have an interest there. Democracy. Clare Short, what do you

:26:24. > :26:27.make of that? I think that's not worth listening to. The truth of the

:26:28. > :26:32.matter is, I mean, this isn't the only cause, but because of all the

:26:33. > :26:36.deceit about getting to war, the preparations for the post-conflict

:26:37. > :26:43.phase were not properly made, or at least those that were made in the

:26:44. > :26:49.UN, in the State Department were thrown away and a well-organised

:26:50. > :26:55.stable state was never created and sectarianism was unleashed in the

:26:56. > :27:02.Maliki Government, and ISIS is partly succeeding because the Sunni

:27:03. > :27:06.people are so ailianated. So there were -- alienated, so were grave

:27:07. > :27:11.errors in the route to war and the lies led to a failure to prepare for

:27:12. > :27:16.afterwards, a properly organised procedure to try and help the people

:27:17. > :27:19.of Iraq, get rid of Saddam Hussein could have got international support

:27:20. > :27:23.for the reconstruction of Iraq which would have been a totally different

:27:24. > :27:28.operation. But isn't part of the problem that people like you who

:27:29. > :27:34.disagreed so much after the fact of the invasion made it politically

:27:35. > :27:38.impossible for politicians like Barack Obama and the Government here

:27:39. > :27:44.to stay the course? You were urging them to cut and run, they weren't

:27:45. > :27:48.able to stay and create a stable and secure democracy? No, that's

:27:49. > :27:52.complete nonsense too. I didn't have any influence about Obama's

:27:53. > :27:59.decision, that was - he was elected on a commitment to get out of Iraq

:28:00. > :28:04.and kept to that commitment. That was partly because it was a sort of

:28:05. > :28:10.fruitless exercise with endless killing and dying. No, that doesn't

:28:11. > :28:17.stack up at all. John? What? Well, what do you make of that suggestion?

:28:18. > :28:20.You worked in the early formation of the Iraqi Government, what Clare

:28:21. > :28:23.Short suggests is there was never any proper attempt to secure a

:28:24. > :28:26.decent, stable functioning Government that could have been able

:28:27. > :28:33.to cope with what it would have to withstand? No, there has always been

:28:34. > :28:39.a complex set of coalitions there. For example, there's been a Kurdish,

:28:40. > :28:43.socialist President of Iraq working with the Maliki Government and the

:28:44. > :28:50.other parties. There is undoubtedly true the Prime Minister of Iraq made

:28:51. > :28:54.a disastrous decision when he refused to sign a agreement with the

:28:55. > :28:58.Americans, the situation would be different if there were 10,000

:28:59. > :29:04.American troops in Iraq who would be available to mobilise. That was the

:29:05. > :29:08.strategic error by Maliki. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be

:29:09. > :29:11.supporting him now. It doesn't mean that we should be abandoning... How

:29:12. > :29:16.can we trust him now, if as you say and as many people have suggested,

:29:17. > :29:21.that he has become a sectarian leader, he has been divisive, how

:29:22. > :29:23.could we trust him now? He didn't get rewarded at the general

:29:24. > :29:26.election. There is a democracy there. The public voted for

:29:27. > :29:31.different parties. A Government has to be created that brings together

:29:32. > :29:35.all the parties in Iraq and we see what's happened in the Kurdish

:29:36. > :29:40.region. They've taken control of Kirkuk. The army that represents

:29:41. > :29:43.both the main parties there, who have had in the past a big civil

:29:44. > :29:48.war, they united after the civil war, they've had democracy for over

:29:49. > :29:55.20 years. They can defend and retake territory from the terrorists. There

:29:56. > :29:59.is a model there in Iraq... We are short on time. Clare Short, what

:30:00. > :30:04.would you want to see now? John wants us to go back in, what would

:30:05. > :30:08.you do, leave it? No, but I don't see any military intervention that

:30:09. > :30:12.is going to solve anything. By the way, President Obama has said no

:30:13. > :30:18.troops on the ground but they're looking at drones or bombing, but

:30:19. > :30:22.who do you bomb? As one of your previous people said, moss system a

:30:23. > :30:25.city of two million -- Mosul is a city of two million people, you

:30:26. > :30:30.can't go bombing people, that doesn't rescue the situation. We are

:30:31. > :30:35.in an incredibly complex situation. ISIS isn't doing it alone. It's got

:30:36. > :30:39.support from the Sunni community because they're so alienated. The

:30:40. > :30:44.thing flows over to Syria. You have to start... We must leave it there.

:30:45. > :30:48.Thank you both. It's a complicated situation.

:30:49. > :30:50.Now, on 7th March the 10.00pm news and Newsnight broadcast

:30:51. > :30:54.a report alleging a possible police cover-up over an allegedly corrupt

:30:55. > :30:58.The claims should have been put to the Met,

:30:59. > :31:03.The Met, in fact, says it did not claim in its evidence to the Ellison

:31:04. > :31:07.Review that there were no records of the officer's links to a separate

:31:08. > :31:10.investigation into the murder of Daniel Morgan and it does not accept

:31:11. > :31:12.that the BBC produced evidence of a possible cover-up.

:31:13. > :31:14.We were wrong to suggest the document we showed demonstrated

:31:15. > :31:29.such a cover-up and we apologise for this. Up with

:31:30. > :31:33.thing this World Cup doesn't have is the voice of football. We thought

:31:34. > :31:46.John Motson should have a chance to be heard. Here he is with his latest

:31:47. > :31:51.extraordinary World Cup story. Age 42 the Columbian keeper suspect just

:31:52. > :31:58.the older player u he is a link to the tournament darkest moment. He

:31:59. > :32:02.was a back up player in the 19 94 World Cup squad that the Columbian

:32:03. > :32:09.nation believed was destined for greatness. But the country's drug

:32:10. > :32:14.cartels had pumped money into the league and allowed a talented crop

:32:15. > :32:19.of players to thrive. But they didn't just bring money. The players

:32:20. > :32:24.were surrounded by violence, intimidation and what was an

:32:25. > :32:36.intolerable pressure to succeed. Two straight defeats saw Columbia

:32:37. > :32:43.eliminated and an own goal by the captain Escabar led to the defeat.

:32:44. > :32:51.Ten days later he was shot dead in his home down. A - town. A

:32:52. > :32:56.disastrous campaign ended with the player losing his life. The current

:32:57. > :33:06.squad is the country's most fans Yipped since that time -- fancied

:33:07. > :33:07.since that time. But Columbia is a country much changed from one pr