:00:00. > :00:14.The President who voted against Bush's war, says America would be
:00:15. > :00:19.ready to act. But Obama won't send troops into direct combat. Yet extra
:00:20. > :00:24.military personnel are on the way. There are cries of "betrayal" in
:00:25. > :00:28.Baghdad. We will be prepared to take targeted and precise military
:00:29. > :00:32.action, if and when we determine that the situation on the ground
:00:33. > :00:36.requires it. They said Twitter can be a force for good, and make lots
:00:37. > :00:41.of money. But is the billion dollar business living up to that? One of
:00:42. > :00:49.the company's founders is here. What is this? Not exactly capability
:00:50. > :00:54.brown, but a rather more elegant gardener has designs on the Thames.
:00:55. > :00:57.To make a bridge which crosses this, to me one of the most important
:00:58. > :01:02.rivers in the world, the River Thames, and to have a garden on it
:01:03. > :01:15.seems something almost dream-like, almost a magical quality. Good
:01:16. > :01:20.evening, so America could return to Iraq, with an extra 300 military
:01:21. > :01:25.advisers on the ground. And what President Obama described as precise
:01:26. > :01:30.and targeted action, if it proves necessary. But that's only a partial
:01:31. > :01:34.answer to the cry for help from what remains of the Iraqi Government, but
:01:35. > :01:44.even limited American intervention in the dangerous and discoughing
:01:45. > :01:48.state is proving controversial. For those expecting American pilots to
:01:49. > :01:54.light their afterburners and take to the skies to pummel ISIS, today was
:01:55. > :01:59.a disappointment. But the Washington debate has now gone to full throttle
:02:00. > :02:06.over whether to help Iraq and there's movement. For the moment,
:02:07. > :02:11.just a few hundred Special Forces' advisers will go in. It is not for
:02:12. > :02:15.the United States to choose Iraq's leaders, it is true that only
:02:16. > :02:18.leaders with an inclusive agenda will truly bring the Iraqi people
:02:19. > :02:22.together and help them through the crisis. Meanwhile the United States
:02:23. > :02:30.will not pursue military actions that support one sect inside of Iraq
:02:31. > :02:39.at the expense of another. Ies that's the same movement as ISIL is
:02:40. > :02:44.the game-changer for Washington. Its advances have been sufficiently
:02:45. > :02:48.alarming that they have forced the President to overturn one of his
:02:49. > :02:53.policies, complete disengagment with Iraq. This is a President adverse to
:02:54. > :02:57.getting America endangled in the Middle East or conflicts around the
:02:58. > :03:03.world in any way. He feels it is a time to consolidate and focus on
:03:04. > :03:08.problems at home. For him to go back to Iraq, looking at military
:03:09. > :03:11.options, getting ourselves entangled in the very complicated politics of
:03:12. > :03:15.that country has to be extremely painful for him on a personal level
:03:16. > :03:23.and also on a larger strategic level, I think he has to feel this
:03:24. > :03:28.is a tremendous disappointment and tremenduously bad for US national
:03:29. > :03:33.interests. The most urgent problem the Iraqi Government faces is at
:03:34. > :03:38.Baji, where an oil refinery providing 40% of the country's
:03:39. > :03:45.petrol is close to be overrun. Near Baquba, militias have been fighting
:03:46. > :03:48.to keep ISIS out of the town. And around Kirkuk, Kurdish forces are
:03:49. > :03:53.trying to defend their recent gains against the Sunnis. Even if a timely
:03:54. > :03:56.air strike could help in any of these situations, many Americans are
:03:57. > :03:59.concerned about the political message it might send. The White
:04:00. > :04:04.House wants a national unity Government, Shia, Sunni and Kurd,
:04:05. > :04:07.one that could halt the fragmentation of Iraq. President
:04:08. > :04:13.Obama has been quite clear on this, this cannot be the United States
:04:14. > :04:20.being the air force for Shia militias or a Shia on Sunni Arab
:04:21. > :04:26.fight. It has to be a fight of all of Iraq against extremists who do
:04:27. > :04:31.happen to be Sunni Arabs. Downing Street too is looking beyond Nouri
:04:32. > :04:36.Al-Maliki, who it blames for what has happened. There is no doubt that
:04:37. > :04:39.the Government of Iraq has not given enough attention to healing
:04:40. > :04:44.sectarian divides, to including Sunni and Kurds in the Government,
:04:45. > :04:49.to bringing the country together. We have to examine why we have this
:04:50. > :04:54.crisis in the centre of Iraq, and it is that combination of poor
:04:55. > :04:58.governance, of ungoverned space, of encouragement of extremism, which
:04:59. > :05:01.has created this space which is going to be potentially a haven for
:05:02. > :05:08.terrorism with all the dangers that I pointed out in the House of
:05:09. > :05:16.Commons yesterday. Iraqi forces, so their Government insist, are
:05:17. > :05:23.fighting back. And since make is so -- America is so worried about being
:05:24. > :05:27.seen as stepping into a sectarian and Al-Maliki fight, unless the
:05:28. > :05:30.Government changes or Baghdad is directly threatened that won't
:05:31. > :05:34.change. These are fighters in pick-up trucks and small vehicles,
:05:35. > :05:41.they can be hard to isolate, identify and strike without
:05:42. > :05:44.significant collateral damage or accidents that kill civilians
:05:45. > :05:49.nearby. Finally, without it seeming as though we are propping up
:05:50. > :05:55.essentially a Shi'ite dictator whose record of governing we don't really
:05:56. > :05:59.approve of and the risk is that moderate Sunnis, other than these
:06:00. > :06:03.radicals who we would be happy to wipe out, might think we were taking
:06:04. > :06:09.the sides of the Shi'ites in the on going sectarian battle. There are
:06:10. > :06:13.too many unknowns still for the USS Bush to launch its planes on bombing
:06:14. > :06:16.raids over Iraq. The key uncertainties, of course, are
:06:17. > :06:21.political, but tonight, with President Obama's announcement, they
:06:22. > :06:27.are starting to address some of the practical, military obstacles to
:06:28. > :06:31.using these weapons effectively. Mark is here to unpick some of this.
:06:32. > :06:36.You talked there about the practical obstacle, what do you mean by that?
:06:37. > :06:39.This is what I'm hearing, the American troops, special operations
:06:40. > :06:45.forces are already going in. They are going to set up two high-tech
:06:46. > :06:53.ops rooms, one in Baghdad and one in the Kurdish area. They will be used
:06:54. > :06:55.for fusion of evidence, taking images from drones unmanned
:06:56. > :06:59.aircrafts and satellite, all the stuff the NSA gathers, including
:07:00. > :07:03.people's social media, and all the rest of it, putting it together into
:07:04. > :07:08.actionable intelligence. That could be used to direct the Iraqis, to
:07:09. > :07:13.launch American air strikes or even other American actions in the area.
:07:14. > :07:16.What does make do if Al-Maliki refuses to go, what are the
:07:17. > :07:23.immicationcations there for whether or not they strike? It does seem to
:07:24. > :07:26.be a very difficult problem. Listening to President Obama today
:07:27. > :07:30.it occurs to me the Americans might do what they have done in Yemen and
:07:31. > :07:35.Pakistan and Libya, put the problem to one side. If they decide it is in
:07:36. > :07:40.the US national interest to hit ISIS, put the architecture in place
:07:41. > :08:00.to do it in a time and place of their own choosing. Decide it is in
:08:01. > :08:03.the US national interest to hit ISIS, put the architecture in place
:08:04. > :08:05.to do it in a time and place of their own choosing. A key
:08:06. > :08:08.facilitator and supporter from Baghdad is with us tonight.
:08:09. > :08:14.President Obama has described what could be targeted action and precise
:08:15. > :08:23.action, what do you understand that to mean? Well I think the President
:08:24. > :08:35.has decided to send a team of 300 in part to buy time to get a better
:08:36. > :08:41.sense of what is going Onyango the On on the ground in case action
:08:42. > :08:46.against ISIS is taken. But at the same time to buy time on the
:08:47. > :08:51.political process for a Government of National Unity to at least see if
:08:52. > :08:54.a unity Government can be formed. He has precluded immediate military
:08:55. > :09:01.action, but has done enough to gain credibility with the Government that
:09:02. > :09:04.military action might come and to energise the political process, in
:09:05. > :09:09.my judgment. Given what's happening on the ground, does he have time,
:09:10. > :09:20.given how desperate the situation is? As the report now indicates that
:09:21. > :09:31.Baghdad is not in danger of falling, the situation may not be as urgent
:09:32. > :09:38.as some believe it is. If Baghdad was in danger of falling, military
:09:39. > :09:43.action might take place soon and quickly. I think the President is
:09:44. > :09:48.preparing for possible military action, but at the same time I think
:09:49. > :09:54.he wants to wait if it is not urgent, if immediate action is not
:09:55. > :09:59.needed to deal with the political basis of the problem. Because there
:10:00. > :10:06.is sectarianism that is fuelling, in part, this brutal for that has
:10:07. > :10:15.gained ground, ISIS. I think's trying to get to the -- I think he's
:10:16. > :10:21.trying to get to the bottom of the problem. Does Al-Maliki have to go
:10:22. > :10:34.for a new political and potentially table situation to be set up, you
:10:35. > :10:36.backed Al-Maliki, did you back the wrong man potentially table
:10:37. > :10:39.situation to be set up, you backed Al-Maliki, did you back the wrong
:10:40. > :10:50.man? In 2006 he was one of the broad coalition who had the right ideas
:10:51. > :10:58.and he was the better of the two and formed a Government. In the 2010
:10:59. > :11:00.selection in the aftermath of that, while Al-Alawi gained more seats, he
:11:01. > :11:04.was not allowed to form the Government and the constitution was
:11:05. > :11:10.not followed. I think with polarisation, sectarian, because of
:11:11. > :11:15.Syria, the withdrawal of US forces, and the increased Iranian influence
:11:16. > :11:21.and the intermingling of Syria and Iraq conflicts, Al-Maliki has become
:11:22. > :11:26.more difficult to work with in terms of the Sunnis and Kurds and I think
:11:27. > :11:31.that the time has come to see if a new Government that can unite the
:11:32. > :11:34.Iraqis can be formed. The timing is good because the election results
:11:35. > :11:38.were just announced so a new Government has to be formed. And
:11:39. > :11:41.Al-Maliki does not have the votes by himself to form the Government,
:11:42. > :11:46.although he's in a relatively strong position. But I think a unity
:11:47. > :11:49.Government is needed as the President said. So you clearly think
:11:50. > :11:55.that Al-Maliki should move on in some way, but what do you think
:11:56. > :11:59.America should do in terms of this potential military action, putting
:12:00. > :12:03.advisers on the ground may not be what Baghdad wanted but it is still
:12:04. > :12:12.a serious and significant step. What next? What about air strikes? That
:12:13. > :12:18.will have to wait as to what the assessment is, the main purpose of
:12:19. > :12:21.the 300 is to do an assessment of what Iraqi units are like, those
:12:22. > :12:28.that remain. What help do they need, get a better sense of the situation
:12:29. > :12:34.on the ground, in terms of ISIS and other Sunni groups they are also
:12:35. > :12:37.helping ISIS. To develop a strategy, not only working with the Government
:12:38. > :12:44.but the local forces, Sunnis who can help us like they did during the
:12:45. > :12:50.surge, the Awakening Movement to work against the ISIS group, but all
:12:51. > :12:55.of that will depend on whether a unity Government is formed that is
:12:56. > :13:02.acceptable to the Sunnis and Kurds. Because without that military action
:13:03. > :13:05.by itself can do some counter terrorism benefits but will not
:13:06. > :13:12.solve the problems of Iraq. Briefly, you were involved right at the start
:13:13. > :13:15.of this, as part of George W Bush's administration. Did you always think
:13:16. > :13:22.this might happen, that you might see Iraq tearing itself apart in
:13:23. > :13:25.this way? Well, our hope was obviously for Iraq not to fall
:13:26. > :13:30.apart, to give the Iraqis an opportunity to accept each other and
:13:31. > :13:35.come together to form a Government that could put it on the path
:13:36. > :13:43.towards freedom and increase the economic prosperity. But in your
:13:44. > :13:46.gut... But the process has been. In your gut, did you always have a
:13:47. > :13:52.sense or fear that we might see this happen? At least what I did
:13:53. > :13:59.personally this was going to be far more difficult and take a lot more
:14:00. > :14:03.time because we know in societies made of different groups, without
:14:04. > :14:09.much experience in democratic rule, state and nation building can take a
:14:10. > :14:14.long time. The experience of Europe itself indicates that. Thank you
:14:15. > :14:23.very much indeed for joining us from Washington:
:14:24. > :14:28.You can hardly move for pundits gasping to comment on Ed Miliband's
:14:29. > :14:32.leading of Labour Party and his getting to Number Ten. What is less
:14:33. > :14:36.readily available is a clear sense of what Ed Miliband would do if he
:14:37. > :14:41.were to end up as Prime Minister. Rogue messages from a Labour Twitter
:14:42. > :14:46.account suggested free owls for all as one idea. In a moment we will
:14:47. > :14:49.talk to one of Ed Miliband's team. Today he filled in one of the policy
:14:50. > :14:54.blanks with what appears to be a real idea, removing jobseeker's
:14:55. > :14:58.allowance for the under 21s. In my view we should not allow the
:14:59. > :15:02.contributory principle to receive further, instead we should
:15:03. > :15:07.strengthen it. As one example the next Labour Government will change
:15:08. > :15:10.the way jobseeker's allowance works, to make sure that someone who has
:15:11. > :15:15.been working for years and years, paying into the system gets more
:15:16. > :15:20.help if they lose their job than someone who has just been working
:15:21. > :15:23.for a couple of years. Well the Shadow Business Secretary is with us
:15:24. > :15:27.in the studio. Thank you for coming in. After all the talk of radical
:15:28. > :15:31.ideas that we have been promised in recent days, Ed Miliband today came
:15:32. > :15:34.up with a policy that will save ?100 million and isn't particularly
:15:35. > :15:38.different to what the Government is doing in some areas, or one of your
:15:39. > :15:41.previous policies, it is not exactly radical is it? It is different to
:15:42. > :15:44.what the Government has proposed, but let's look at the
:15:45. > :15:46.what the Government has proposed, here, we have too many people in our
:15:47. > :15:51.country who are not connected, plugged in to the global economy,
:15:52. > :15:55.and amongst those are young people who have been in receipt of benefit.
:15:56. > :16:01.Now, what we know is that seven out of ten 18-21-year-olds, who have
:16:02. > :16:05.been on jobseekers allowance are on it for the second time. That tells
:16:06. > :16:09.you they are not getting into sustainable work, and also we have a
:16:10. > :16:12.situation where they don't have requisite skills to get into that
:16:13. > :16:17.work. What will you do about it? That is what the prose posals are
:16:18. > :16:22.about. We can -- proposals are about. We can have a debate about
:16:23. > :16:25.what is radical, but what matters to viewers is what works. We want to
:16:26. > :16:29.make sure that the young people are getting skills to plug them into the
:16:30. > :16:32.global economy. As you know well, all the polling suggests and most
:16:33. > :16:37.people in your party believe, it is for your party to restore an image
:16:38. > :16:41.of economic competence, this first radical policy will save about ?100
:16:42. > :16:45.million, George Osborne says he's going to save ?12 billion from
:16:46. > :16:48.welfare? With the greatest respect this isn't the first policy, we have
:16:49. > :16:52.said we will use the money Government spends through
:16:53. > :16:55.procurement, to boost the numbers of apprenticeship, we have made we will
:16:56. > :16:58.put in place a job guarantee for young people out of work for more
:16:59. > :17:01.than a year and adults out of work for more than two years. We have
:17:02. > :17:05.talked about how we actually transform and reconsignificant our
:17:06. > :17:19.economy, so we have better wage and higher skilled work, to say this is
:17:20. > :17:26.the first of one of the policies. Labour has to talk about significant
:17:27. > :17:30.cuts, so on welfare what else would you cut, George Osborne says ?12
:17:31. > :17:33.billion after the next election, beyond today what will you save
:17:34. > :17:38.there? George Osborne hasn't specified where the cuts will come
:17:39. > :17:41.in the next parliament. What was what would you cut? We have already
:17:42. > :17:46.accepted in this parliament the switch from the up-rating of
:17:47. > :17:50.benefits from RPI to CPI, that made a saving at the beginning of the
:17:51. > :17:54.parliament. Which the Government has counted in, what else would you cut
:17:55. > :17:57.on welfare? The best way we can reduce the benefits bill is getting
:17:58. > :18:00.more people into work and in respect of those people. And by the way the
:18:01. > :18:04.benefit that is they have been having to pay out because there have
:18:05. > :18:07.been large numbers of people unemployed throughout this
:18:08. > :18:11.parliament, costing way over ?10 billion. We also need to raise the
:18:12. > :18:17.wages of people in work. Which is spending more money by increasing
:18:18. > :18:21.the minimum wage, you are not cutting the welfare budget? You have
:18:22. > :18:24.just said which is wrong that increasing the minimum wage will
:18:25. > :18:29.cost the Government money. What it will do is employers pay more, that
:18:30. > :18:33.reduces the amount of benefit Government pays out and reduces tax
:18:34. > :18:36.credit. If people are able to get jobs? If you are talking about
:18:37. > :18:40.getting more people on to a living wage by making work pay contracts,
:18:41. > :18:45.that is fully costed and fully funded. Let's look at the other
:18:46. > :18:50.areas you may or may not cut money. The NHS budget the Government are
:18:51. > :18:55.ring-fencing it, would you touch that? You are asking me first of all
:18:56. > :18:59.spell out Labour's manifesto in ten months time. You are also asking me
:19:00. > :19:04.to tell you what is in the first budget. We are clear what we will
:19:05. > :19:10.done d'oh in getting the publicens ifs back on to an even footing after
:19:11. > :19:14.this Government will borrow ?190 billion. It is about the level which
:19:15. > :19:17.you are willing to give to restore a picture of economic competence? We
:19:18. > :19:22.have given more detail in terms of how we will reduce the deficit, at
:19:23. > :19:28.this point in a parliament, than any other opposition? A generation, we
:19:29. > :19:32.said no borrowing to fund day-to-day expenditure. If it is so convincing
:19:33. > :19:36.why is Labour consistent leeway behind the Government in terms of
:19:37. > :19:40.trust on economic competence, you are 13 points behind right now. The
:19:41. > :19:43.Conservatives' message at the election will be you cannot trust
:19:44. > :19:48.Labour at the economy, that will be their one sentence, what will
:19:49. > :19:53.Labour's one sentence message at the next election be? I don't agree with
:19:54. > :19:56.you, because you are quoting to me different polls, what I do know is
:19:57. > :20:05.that since 2010, the Labour Party has put on more than 2,300
:20:06. > :20:09.councillors, we have votes that delivered more, in the marginal seat
:20:10. > :20:13.areas where we need to win back support for a majority. What would
:20:14. > :20:20.the one sentence be in the next election? I won't give you the strap
:20:21. > :20:23.line for the 2015 manifesto. We know the Conservative message? If you let
:20:24. > :20:26.me answer the question. We would love to hear the answer? We want to
:20:27. > :20:30.empower people to meet their aspirations and dreams and to ensure
:20:31. > :20:36.that everybody in this country can see the benefits that a 21st century
:20:37. > :20:40.Britain can bring. The prosals we are talking about -- proposals we
:20:41. > :20:43.are talking about today seeks to plug young people into the global
:20:44. > :20:49.economy to see the benefits, where we know not enough of them are
:20:50. > :20:55.seeing them, with 850,000 young people out of work. The talk about
:20:56. > :20:58.aspirations and living dreams how does that compare to the trusting
:20:59. > :21:01.message on the economy, and the Government's message which is don't
:21:02. > :21:05.give the keys back because you crashed it last time? First of all
:21:06. > :21:08.people are in the future business, what they want to know, and this is
:21:09. > :21:13.in my constituency in Streatham people want to know, my 15-year-old
:21:14. > :21:15.child now when they are 25 after two terms of Labour Government, what
:21:16. > :21:19.will be the opportunities what will be the jobs that they can do. We're
:21:20. > :21:23.very clear, we want to make sure they get the skills so they can get
:21:24. > :21:26.really, good secure work that pays them a wage they can live off in a
:21:27. > :21:31.variety of different industries, which we know the UK are
:21:32. > :21:34.world-beating in, that is what we are in the business of doing. Thank
:21:35. > :21:38.you for coming in, and when you have that one sentence please come back
:21:39. > :21:42.and tell us, thank you. What could be more charming than a
:21:43. > :21:46.stroll by the river, a stroll across the river, of course, a dream of the
:21:47. > :21:50.actress, Joanna Lumley, who in planning a garden bridge across the
:21:51. > :21:55.Thames is following roles as an Avenger, a permanently tipsy
:21:56. > :22:00.magazine editor, saviour of the Gurkhas, and animal rights
:22:01. > :22:05.campaigner with another gardener in chief. She gave us a look at her
:22:06. > :22:09.plans. City living can be wonderful, all
:22:10. > :22:15.that hustle and bustle, but getting around can also be tough. Like most
:22:16. > :22:33.city dwellers I sometimes long for a haven, away from the noise and rush.
:22:34. > :22:37.Now here we are in the middle of London, this is the top of the Queen
:22:38. > :22:41.Elizabeth hall, this is the roof top garden they have built up here,
:22:42. > :22:45.completely wild, I'm surrounded by vegtables and plants and bees and
:22:46. > :22:51.the sound of birds twittering, and beyond that, the City, the concrete,
:22:52. > :22:55.the hard business of a city at work. It is fantastic, this juxtaposition
:22:56. > :23:06.of something really strange, gardens in strange places, that is paradise
:23:07. > :23:11.for me. For the past 17 years I have been working on and dreaming of a
:23:12. > :23:16.bridge which will cross done in complete silence, a bridge with a
:23:17. > :23:26.garden on it, a pedestrian bridge with a garden on it. Now, I hope, my
:23:27. > :23:33.dream is becoming a reality. The with a garden on it. Now, I hope, my
:23:34. > :23:40.planning work has already begun. The designer is Thomas Heatherwick, the
:23:41. > :23:47.Da Vinci of our day, the man behind the petal flowers of the Olympic
:23:48. > :23:51.cauldron. His garden bridge is equally powerful. It will run from
:23:52. > :23:57.the Temple on the north side to the south side on Queen's Walk. To make
:23:58. > :24:00.a bridge which crosses this, to me one of the most important rivers in
:24:01. > :24:06.the world, the River Thames, and to have a garden on it seems something
:24:07. > :24:11.almost dream-like, almost a magical quality. To be able to walk through
:24:12. > :24:21.trees and grass with birds and bees over the river, in the centre of a
:24:22. > :24:29.huge vibrant city. The garden will be filled with trees, 270 of them,
:24:30. > :24:34.as well as shrubs and wild flowers. Winding paths will snake around
:24:35. > :24:41.woodland copsess and glades. It will be a destination in its own right. I
:24:42. > :24:46.hope pedestrians will spend time there, crossing slowly rather than
:24:47. > :24:50.racing across. The idea for integrated greenery in urban setting
:24:51. > :24:54.has been used elsewhere, New York's High Line is one example. It is a
:24:55. > :25:00.concept that is now increasingly popular here in the UK. When cities
:25:01. > :25:05.were much smaller, people had easy access to the countryside, and then
:25:06. > :25:10.with the Industrial Revolution all over the country the countryside in
:25:11. > :25:14.a way receded, the Victorians understood that and then they
:25:15. > :25:17.brought green back into the city. I think we have really, since then,
:25:18. > :25:22.moved away from that, I think cities have become denser, noisier, busier,
:25:23. > :25:27.and I think now we are beginning to realise the value of urban green
:25:28. > :25:39.extends far beyond the fact that plants and green provide an
:25:40. > :25:42.aesthetic qualities. This is pretty much where the bridge is going to
:25:43. > :25:47.be, coming from Temple Tube across there right across to the ITV
:25:48. > :25:50.television studies on that side. It teams extraordinary in four years
:25:51. > :25:54.time we will be going underneath it. Why four years? Because the race is
:25:55. > :25:59.on. Because of the huge infrastructure changes that will go
:26:00. > :26:03.on in London a great big super sewer will be built on this side, work has
:26:04. > :26:08.to start on the bridge in 2015 and it has to be completed by 2018, it
:26:09. > :26:12.is thrilling, we can see the finishing tape already. What to do
:26:13. > :26:17.in that time, raise the money and build the bridge. Raising the money
:26:18. > :26:20.is hard but not impossible, because so many people are behind this.
:26:21. > :26:29.Everyone we have spoken to has fallen in love with it, which is
:26:30. > :26:34.fabulous, because it is my idea. The bridge is going to cost abou ?175
:26:35. > :26:39.million, we shouldn't be scared of the number, it will be an iconic
:26:40. > :26:42.wonderful piece of London skyline. It is something that London and the
:26:43. > :26:48.UK generally can be very proud of. It is going to cost about ?2. 3
:26:49. > :26:53.million to run it once it is built. We're obviously from a fundraising
:26:54. > :27:01.perspective looking at raising the money to build it and maintain it.
:27:02. > :27:05.We are confident we can do that. By October we should know whether this
:27:06. > :27:10.project that we have worked on and nutured for so long will finally
:27:11. > :27:15.become a reality. I hope it does. And I hope it inspires other people
:27:16. > :27:19.in other cities to create their own garden bridges. After all, I think
:27:20. > :27:27.there is room for a few more flowers in all our lives. Now the Oxford
:27:28. > :27:31.Union has been an effective play pen for establishment wannabes for
:27:32. > :27:35.nearly 200 years. It is probably the country's most famous debating
:27:36. > :27:41.society, and members who earn their stripes in its sessions include Tony
:27:42. > :27:46.Blair, Attlee, Asquith, Gove, hissen Tyne and Boris Johnson. But the
:27:47. > :27:51.Union has been caught up in a different controversy of late.
:27:52. > :27:55.Campaignsers pressured speakers to stay away, after the current
:27:56. > :27:58.President of the Union, Ben Sullivan was arrested on suspicion of rape.
:27:59. > :28:02.The police dropped the case yesterday. It has reignited
:28:03. > :28:09.questions over whether the accused should have his identity kept
:28:10. > :28:14.secret. Ben is here now and as well as Sarah who was involved in the
:28:15. > :28:17.campaign to boycott the Union. We won't go into the case because the
:28:18. > :28:22.charges have been dropped. You believe those accused of those kinds
:28:23. > :28:30.of offences should have anonymity? To some degree, I'm not as extreme
:28:31. > :28:36.as some those who feel you should have your identity not revealed
:28:37. > :28:42.after charge or conviction. I think there should be happy medium where
:28:43. > :28:46.your identity is not released straight away. It should be
:28:47. > :28:50.protected until at least a preliminary investigation. Why
:28:51. > :28:54.should we give protection to people accused of those kinds of offences,
:28:55. > :28:57.it is not for people accused of any other kinds of offences, it can
:28:58. > :29:01.encourage other people to come forward? That is completely true,
:29:02. > :29:06.that is why I would say not everybody's identity in cases like
:29:07. > :29:09.this could be kept secret, I'm aware it can be extremely helpful for
:29:10. > :29:13.police investigations for people's identities to be revealed and for
:29:14. > :29:16.people to come forward. These are incredibly poisonous allegations and
:29:17. > :29:21.incredibly difficult to deal with. As you know obviously those
:29:22. > :29:26.complainants are given anonymity n this country when we introduced
:29:27. > :29:30.anonymity for complainants it was for those accused as well, only to
:29:31. > :29:33.revoke it a few years later. What has it been like for you, there has
:29:34. > :29:37.been an extraordinary international attention on the Oxford Union, what
:29:38. > :29:40.is the experience like? It has been very difficult, very harrowing, I
:29:41. > :29:44.think, it puts things in perspective and changes your priorities to say
:29:45. > :29:49.the very least. It has been very, very difficult, I'm very thankful to
:29:50. > :29:54.everyone has given me all sorts of support, my friend and family. My
:29:55. > :29:57.committee has been loyal and supportive, I'm grateful for that,
:29:58. > :30:02.it has been extremely difficult. Sarah Pine, doesn't Ben's experience
:30:03. > :30:08.illustrate exactly why there should be anonymity for those accused? No,
:30:09. > :30:12.I don't think so. I think in these cases what tends to happen is that
:30:13. > :30:16.if someone is able to be named this can encourage other people to come
:30:17. > :30:19.forward. You look at cases like the Jimmy Savile case, and scores of
:30:20. > :30:22.people would not have come forward unless he could have been named in
:30:23. > :30:26.the press. Being able to name people is something that helps police
:30:27. > :30:31.investigations go much smoother, because it can encourage more people
:30:32. > :30:35.to come forward. But Jimmy Savile was extreme example and somebody who
:30:36. > :30:38.had passed away, he was dead before these accusations came into the
:30:39. > :30:41.public domain, it is a very different case isn't it? I don't
:30:42. > :30:44.think so. Because I think there are other reasons why it is important to
:30:45. > :30:49.be able to name people who have been arrested for these crimes. For
:30:50. > :30:52.example like you said, don't keep anonymity for people that are
:30:53. > :30:57.arrested of other crimes, by making this crime a special case it sends a
:30:58. > :31:00.message that survivors of sexual violence, whoever they may be should
:31:01. > :31:04.not come forward because they won't be believed, that the state will act
:31:05. > :31:08.to protect any potential perpetrators more than they will any
:31:09. > :31:14.potential victims. What about the principle of innocent until proven
:31:15. > :31:17.guilty, we are not talking about the particularities of this case. But
:31:18. > :31:28.here, you are involved in a campaign to encourage a boy coat of --
:31:29. > :31:31.boycott of an internationally renowned organisation, did that
:31:32. > :31:36.break the principle that have? I have never passed a judgment on
:31:37. > :31:41.Ben's case, I think it is inappropriate, however... . What
:31:42. > :31:45.about the boycott That never broke innocent until proven guilty. The
:31:46. > :31:49.general secretary of Interpol, an internationally renowned lawyer and
:31:50. > :31:53.expert on these matters said that it is always appropriate, when someone
:31:54. > :31:56.is arrested for these crimes that they stand down or are suspended
:31:57. > :32:01.until any investigations are completed. That sends a very
:32:02. > :32:05.respectful message to any survivors of sexual violence, because it shows
:32:06. > :32:09.that what they say and any allegations that they make will be
:32:10. > :32:14.taken seriously. One Show in four women whilst -- when one in four
:32:15. > :32:18.women whilst at university will experience sexual assault, this is a
:32:19. > :32:23.particularly poise I don't knowous approach. You took part in a
:32:24. > :32:27.campaign that whipped up something that was not proven, that does
:32:28. > :32:31.violate the principle, does it not? We had campaign that was based upon
:32:32. > :32:34.the fact that the Union should not have acted in the way it did. It was
:32:35. > :32:39.never against Ben, we talked about the way the Union allocated its
:32:40. > :32:44.funds for his legal fees and they had no policy to deal with these
:32:45. > :32:47.sorts of things, we talked about the messages continually being put out
:32:48. > :32:50.by the Union, you said it was a campaign against one man, it was a
:32:51. > :32:54.campaign against an institution. But there was a national, indeed
:32:55. > :32:59.international outcry you had Nobel Prize whippers refusing to appear --
:33:00. > :33:03.winners refusing to appear at the union. Was it appropriate for you to
:33:04. > :33:07.invite that kind of scrutiny and attention? I have absolutely no
:33:08. > :33:12.regrets regarding the campaign. I just like to say I agree with a lot
:33:13. > :33:16.of what Sarah just said, for one second I don't think she has broken
:33:17. > :33:20.the principle of innocent until proven guilty, some people have but
:33:21. > :33:25.Sarah never has, and I'm incredibly grateful for that, honestly. I think
:33:26. > :33:28.it has obviously been a very difficult time for me and my
:33:29. > :33:32.committee, for the union, obviously I said before my family. I don't
:33:33. > :33:39.agree with everything Sarah said about the boycott. But I do think, I
:33:40. > :33:43.don't doubt that the organisers do have good intentions, I do agree
:33:44. > :33:46.sexual violence at university is a serious problem at Oxford and other
:33:47. > :33:50.universities. We need to be careful not to let individual cases get
:33:51. > :33:53.intertwined with the general, because a general problem, just
:33:54. > :33:58.because there is a general problem that doesn't mean an individual is
:33:59. > :34:04.necessarily... Thank you very much indeed for coming in to discuss this
:34:05. > :34:10.tonight. Now then, the former FA cup and UEFA Cup winner Garth Crooks and
:34:11. > :34:18.former Spurs and Newcastle winger who won 17 caps for France, David
:34:19. > :34:21.Ginola, join me to conduct a sad post ortem on England football, it
:34:22. > :34:28.didn't go too well tonight. Here we have two of the industry's finest to
:34:29. > :34:34.dissect what went wrong. The finest. David is pointing to you first, is
:34:35. > :34:40.that it, is it all over, does this small tiny shred of mathematical
:34:41. > :34:45.miracles? I'm very disappointed, I have just left a huge audience of
:34:46. > :34:48.people and pundits and we are all shocked and saddened. I think it is
:34:49. > :34:54.a night for hysteria, to be honest. I think it is a night for calm
:34:55. > :35:01.reflection. Calm reflection in football! We don't get much of it,
:35:02. > :35:07.do we. To be honest with you. I have just decided with David here, and he
:35:08. > :35:12.has some very strong issues about the way the English play or the
:35:13. > :35:16.national team play. As a team. There are many points that he makes that I
:35:17. > :35:19.would agree with, but you know what I think we have to be very careful
:35:20. > :35:22.not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Let's hear some of the
:35:23. > :35:29.strong points, what is your diagnosis on why it appears to
:35:30. > :35:34.happen again and again? I'm pretty sad about not just the result but
:35:35. > :35:39.the manner. You expect a team to go to play in the World Cup in Brazil
:35:40. > :35:43.first of all to enjoy yourself. You need to see players to really enjoy
:35:44. > :35:48.themselves on the football pitch, playing together, as a team, playing
:35:49. > :35:52.for England for the people back in England, watches the games. I was
:35:53. > :35:59.watching the game with 200 fans tonight. They were so disappointed,
:36:00. > :36:08.obviously they were disappointed they lost tonight and against
:36:09. > :36:13.Uruguay, it is almost done. They realised they will go back to
:36:14. > :36:16.England with plenty of regrets. Expectations were lower, shouldn't
:36:17. > :36:20.people just accept it? If you look at the squad and take players
:36:21. > :36:25.individually, you can see quality there. You can see plenty of
:36:26. > :36:29.qualities. Your spent they should be better but they don't play as a
:36:30. > :36:36.team? It is no way if you, you need to pass the ball more than three
:36:37. > :36:41.times without losing it, you need to possess the ball. This is the key in
:36:42. > :36:46.modern football. So Garth is that true, should England fans be feeling
:36:47. > :36:51.let down because they don't gel together as a team? English fans
:36:52. > :36:56.when they lose feel let down, we are all disappointed tonight. Maybe they
:36:57. > :37:00.should have lower expectations. We are playing a better brand of
:37:01. > :37:04.football than we were ten years ago, it is more pleasing on the eye, we
:37:05. > :37:08.try to pass, maybe not with great success. It is not getting them very
:37:09. > :37:12.far, tonight Uruguay have got three million people and they managed to
:37:13. > :37:17.beat the team? But they have a very good football team. Why is that
:37:18. > :37:21.then? They have a very good football team. And so do Italy. They both
:37:22. > :37:26.have very good football teams. I'm not making any excuses for the fact
:37:27. > :37:30.we have lost, we are disappointed. I can't affect the result, I'm trying
:37:31. > :37:39.to look ahead and say, look what positives can we get out of the fact
:37:40. > :37:43.that we have Ross Barclay, Sterly, Lelana, new exciting players coming
:37:44. > :37:47.through. We mustn't lose sight of that. I have a slight problem with
:37:48. > :37:52.this, because he mentioned those players, and they are very, very
:37:53. > :37:56.talented players, but when you look at them playing for their clubs they
:37:57. > :37:59.are different players. They are much better playing for the clubs? I have
:38:00. > :38:03.been in a situation like that, playing for my country, and it is
:38:04. > :38:07.more difficult. Because you don't have much time to spend with the
:38:08. > :38:12.other players to work on the tactics on the relationship, on the links
:38:13. > :38:16.with the players. So you need to be intelligent, you need to be smart,
:38:17. > :38:21.you need to be quick. Shouldn't players be playing their heart out
:38:22. > :38:25.for their country, more so than for their club, how does that stack up?
:38:26. > :38:29.That is what David is talking about. He's talking about synergy, he's
:38:30. > :38:34.talking about all being able to connect. Liverpool who had a great
:38:35. > :38:39.season, Manchester City and Arsenal, it doesn't click in five minutes, it
:38:40. > :38:46.takes years. National teams don't quite have that. These days you get
:38:47. > :38:52.a month. Just finally to both of you, should Roy Hodgson stay in his
:38:53. > :38:56.job? Absolutely, come on. Come on. Absolutely stays in the job. Come
:38:57. > :39:01.on. England needs stability, they need to look at the future in a
:39:02. > :39:07.brighter way. They have got talented players, we talk about it and this
:39:08. > :39:12.is the bright future of England. But, to win major competitions they
:39:13. > :39:16.need to play as a team and not as individuals. We are disappointed but
:39:17. > :39:21.we are not hysterical. Thank you both very much for coming in. And
:39:22. > :39:26.who knows, Costa Rico Italy. Snore if you like, ignore at will, but
:39:27. > :39:32.more than a quarter of a billion people are signed up to the social
:39:33. > :39:35.network Twitter, its shares trade at nearly $40 a piece. Many of the
:39:36. > :39:39.world's leaders and footballers are falling over themselves to share
:39:40. > :39:43.their thoughts in 140 characters or less with those who have been game
:39:44. > :39:47.enough to follow them. Whether mainstream popularity like that
:39:48. > :39:51.turns out to be the death knell of what was once deeply cool, Twitter
:39:52. > :40:03.is a significant part of the on-line and political landscape.
:40:04. > :40:11.Twitter had sketchy beginnings, literally, its origins scrawled in
:40:12. > :40:13.the network of Jack Dorsey, he built it with coconspirator, the first
:40:14. > :40:20.tweet sent in 2006, one of the it with coconspirator, the first
:40:21. > :40:25.founders Biz Stone said they can be a force for good and make lots of
:40:26. > :40:34.money. It spread fast among the geeks, Ashton Kucher was the first
:40:35. > :40:41.to reach one million followers, and the politicians took a long time to
:40:42. > :40:48.catch up. The innantness of Twitter means too many twits might make a
:40:49. > :40:51.twit! That might seem a little left behind. Twitter is the largest
:40:52. > :40:57.political soapbox of it all, even the Pope is on board, and a Wall
:40:58. > :41:06.Street float left its creators very wealthy men. Biz Stone has now
:41:07. > :41:09.written the story of how micromessaging, can in his view
:41:10. > :41:13.change the world. Spreading the news of the crash on the Hudson, well
:41:14. > :41:16.before traditional media caught on, to providing a voice for activists
:41:17. > :41:27.during the Arab Spring to be heard around the world. Big change can
:41:28. > :41:32.come in small packages. Biz Stone the cofound founder is -- the
:41:33. > :41:38.cofounder is with us now. You invented a way of sending messages
:41:39. > :41:43.for 140 characters or less, but chosen to write a book with tens of
:41:44. > :41:48.thousands of words, why? I was asked to deliver masterclass at a
:41:49. > :41:53.university last year and it became something all around the world. I
:41:54. > :41:57.noticed high schools and CEOs found the lessons I learned throughout my
:41:58. > :42:02.life and at Twitter resonated with them. When someone asked me to write
:42:03. > :42:08.a book, I thought what shall I write a book about it and I thought I
:42:09. > :42:12.would base it on the lecture. You could have written it on-line, or
:42:13. > :42:23.put it on-line for free, you chose a more traditional way of publishing?
:42:24. > :42:27.I wanted to create an act at the artefact. I came from publishing and
:42:28. > :42:32.I liked the idea of it. When you started out with your friends on the
:42:33. > :42:36.west coast, it happened by accident during a hack aen to, as you
:42:37. > :42:39.describe it in the book. What did you think Twitter would be when you
:42:40. > :42:46.started? It was more something that was fun. We wanted to, our first
:42:47. > :42:49.attempt at creating a start-up after leaving Google had failed, and we
:42:50. > :42:53.just said let's just work on something that we're interested in.
:42:54. > :42:57.That is all it was. It was just joyful. When did you realise it was
:42:58. > :43:00.something that could actually be big and people would use it in all sorts
:43:01. > :43:05.of different ways you didn't expect, when did you realise? My perception
:43:06. > :43:09.of Twitter was profoundly changed in March 2007 when I went to a
:43:10. > :43:12.technology conference and I noticed that this was the first time we were
:43:13. > :43:17.seeing Twitter in the wild and I heard a story about a man who was at
:43:18. > :43:22.a pub, wanted to, noticed the pub was too loud and wanted to talk with
:43:23. > :43:27.his friends so he sent out a tweet saying let's move to the other pub,
:43:28. > :43:33.in the eight minutes it took to move to the pub, there was lines out the
:43:34. > :43:38.doors. Plan backfired. He sent a tweet his followers decided it was a
:43:39. > :43:43.good idea, and they tweeted. The image was a flock of birds moving
:43:44. > :43:47.around a bird in flight, something that looks choreographed and
:43:48. > :43:50.planned, but the mechanics of flocking are simple. You saw it
:43:51. > :43:57.changing behaviour? It was the only time ever seen a technology allow
:43:58. > :44:02.human beings in real time to behave as one organism, it chilled me.
:44:03. > :44:06.Chilled you, that's interesting, you thought that was frightening? That
:44:07. > :44:10.was a party what if it had been, the thing I thought what if it had been
:44:11. > :44:13.something dramatic, something important, something serious like a
:44:14. > :44:21.disaster. That's when we went back and created Twitter Incorporated,
:44:22. > :44:27.before that it was a protect. Ject. Then you had the American state
:44:28. > :44:31.department not to close your servers so Twitter could be up and running
:44:32. > :44:38.during demonstrations in Iran. Asked us. At one moment it was in a
:44:39. > :44:43.conference for professional geeks and the next affecting
:44:44. > :44:47.demonstrations in countries hundreds of miles away? It entered the world
:44:48. > :44:51.stage, it became part of the vocabulary of the world stage. We
:44:52. > :44:56.were mentioned, the Twitter brand name got linked to a lot of things.
:44:57. > :44:59.But I always maintain that it was about the people, it was about the
:45:00. > :45:04.brave people who were bleeding and dying on the streets and it was, if
:45:05. > :45:10.Twitter was to be a triumph it was to be a triumph of humanity not
:45:11. > :45:14.technology. There is a dark side to humanity, Twitter is also catnip for
:45:15. > :45:20.people who want to abuse other people, who want to be unpleasant,
:45:21. > :45:25.who want to post abusive sometimes graphic hidious messages. Even ISIS
:45:26. > :45:31.have been using Twitter. How do you feel about that? In order to create
:45:32. > :45:36.the platform for freedom of speech you have to honour freedom of
:45:37. > :45:45.speech, you can't cure rate that, as soon as -- curate that, conditions
:45:46. > :45:48.you do that you lose the trust of the people. People are basically and
:45:49. > :45:56.fundamentally good, way more people are good than bad. You have to take
:45:57. > :46:01.the good with the bad in the large scale platforms. Could Twitter
:46:02. > :46:06.disappear, a few years ago MySpace was huge, and we have seen, tech
:46:07. > :46:11.companies come and go, we are fickle. Could it disappear? I see
:46:12. > :46:18.Twitter as a company of enduring value. Something that is proven that
:46:19. > :46:22.it is of value to everyone from personal individuals to heads of
:46:23. > :46:29.state, to organisations, so I think it is here to stay. I won't ask you
:46:30. > :46:39.to put it into 140 characters. That's all we have time for good
:46:40. > :46:48.night. Thanks for watching. Pressure is high this side of the
:46:49. > :46:52.Atlantic, another dry day for most of us on Friday. Sunny spells. The
:46:53. > :46:58.winds light for the most part, breezy around western coasts for
:46:59. > :47:01.example, but some cloud, some sunshine. A decent-looking day
:47:02. > :47:05.across Northern Ireland. Cloud around the northern coasts, the
:47:06. > :47:09.cloudiest weather in the North West Highlands of Scotland up to the
:47:10. > :47:11.Northern Isles, one or two spots of rain, cool