:00:16. > :00:18.reprecussion for his empire after yesterday's verdict. We ask what
:00:19. > :00:24.fall-out this trial will actually have. One of his fiercest crickets
:00:25. > :00:29.is here. Wonga creates a fake law firm to
:00:30. > :00:34.send threatening letters to its customers, we invent our own and
:00:35. > :00:38.write bac Some call them terrorists, he says
:00:39. > :00:43.he's there to help. An ex-cluesive interview with a British man who
:00:44. > :00:49.fled to Syria to fight. I'm not going to sit there and debate with
:00:50. > :01:01.you or ask you not to call me a terrorist.
:01:02. > :01:05.Rupert Murdoch is flying into town to be met with more than a cream pie
:01:06. > :01:10.this time. The conviction of former News of the World editor, Andy
:01:11. > :01:15.Coulson, could mean corporate chances against News UK. Those
:01:16. > :01:21.waiting to see the Murdoch empire implode can wait, the family's
:01:22. > :01:26.wealth has doubled almost since the hacking scandal began. As the
:01:27. > :01:29.hacking trial came to an inconclusive end, David Cameron
:01:30. > :01:35.found himself in the dock rebuked by the judge for his ill-advised
:01:36. > :01:39.comments. What is the reaction from the verdicts yesterday and whose
:01:40. > :01:44.reputation is now at stake? Read all about it. Hacking has hung
:01:45. > :01:49.over the Prime Minister and the press baron for years. David Cameron
:01:50. > :01:54.will be slapped with new headlines for risking the trial. I think for
:01:55. > :01:59.my honourable friend is absolutely right. Keeping the promise to
:02:00. > :02:04.apologise for hiring Coulson if he was guilty. I say again today I take
:02:05. > :02:08.full responsibility for employing Andy Coulson, I did so based on the
:02:09. > :02:12.assurances I and the Select Committee received. Always said if
:02:13. > :02:15.those assurances turned out to be wrong I would apologise fully and
:02:16. > :02:23.frankly to this House of Commons and I do so again today from this
:02:24. > :02:27.despatch box. But... That aroused the significant displeasure of
:02:28. > :02:31.Justice Saunders, because when Cameron first made his apology
:02:32. > :02:35.yesterday the trial wasn't over. At the Old Bailey today the jury were
:02:36. > :02:39.discharged, as they just couldn't decide on two final charges.
:02:40. > :02:42.Cameron's apology was not the reason they failed to conclude. But the
:02:43. > :03:06.judge demanded an explanation. Number Ten is adamant, David Cameron
:03:07. > :03:09.had the best legal advice before opening his mouth. The judge is not
:03:10. > :03:12.blaming him directly for the messy end of this trial. But no Prime
:03:13. > :03:20.Minister wants to be criticised publicly by a senior judge. Saying
:03:21. > :03:24.sorry was meanted to meant to make things better and is deeply awkward
:03:25. > :03:28.instead. One of his colleagues thinks it is a mistake. They were
:03:29. > :03:33.unwise and there should have been legal wise, I doubt it would have
:03:34. > :03:38.crossed David's mind. Why was it unwise? I will give a properly
:03:39. > :03:44.organised interview or no interview at all. But sadly, later he was
:03:45. > :03:54.reluctant to repeat that criticism. And unfortunately the PM has
:03:55. > :03:59.previous. A different judge said David Cameron should have kept his
:04:00. > :04:03.views to himself during the Lawson household fraud trial, and the
:04:04. > :04:06.former Lord Chancellor, Lord Faulkner, told Newsnight there
:04:07. > :04:10.should be a review of the contempt laws, yet the lawyer of some hacking
:04:11. > :04:17.victims believes the judge and the PM were following the same fine
:04:18. > :04:23.line. The judge this morning clearly didn't agree with the advice of the
:04:24. > :04:28.Attorney-General. He was very keen that nothing should happen at the
:04:29. > :04:33.last minute not to fall at the last hurdle. That there was a brink here,
:04:34. > :04:38.that David Cameron perhaps was hovering on the brink of disaster in
:04:39. > :04:44.terms of what he had said. But actually it wasn't a disaster
:04:45. > :04:48.afterall. Ed Miliband was rapid to slam Cameron yesterday, in his
:04:49. > :04:52.words, "for taking a criminal to Number Ten". But today he was eager
:04:53. > :04:56.to know why was full security clearance not sought for Coulson at
:04:57. > :04:59.the start. Let's come to the vetting Mr Speaker, amidst all of the
:05:00. > :05:03.warnings, the very least he should have done is insisted immediately on
:05:04. > :05:10.coming to office that Andy Coulson should have the highest level of
:05:11. > :05:13.security vetting as his six predecessors over the previous 14
:05:14. > :05:18.years had. Why didn't he insist on it? Leveson concluded this, the
:05:19. > :05:23.level of security clearance was not the decision of either Mr Cameron or
:05:24. > :05:27.Mr Coulson, it was the decision of the Civil Service. Labour thinks
:05:28. > :05:31.there is mileage in pushing David Cameron on why Coulson didn't get
:05:32. > :05:36.the toughest background checks before he came to work here. They
:05:37. > :05:42.hoped to show, at least, something distinctly odd went on. Whatever the
:05:43. > :05:48.official version of events may be, there were nerves at senior levels.
:05:49. > :05:52.Labour has asked one former senior civil servant to investigate
:05:53. > :05:56.precisely what Number Ten mandarins got up to, as well as their
:05:57. > :06:00.political bosses. Number Ten insists this one, Jeremy Heywood, simply
:06:01. > :06:04.didn't think Andy Coulson needed the highest level of clearance to start
:06:05. > :06:10.with. That was unworkable so they started the process before he left.
:06:11. > :06:14.But Gus O'Donnell says the decision to appoint Coulson was nothing to do
:06:15. > :06:18.with him. The head of the Civil Service at the time will not shed
:06:19. > :06:26.light on whether he warned the PM off. But how would the other
:06:27. > :06:29.powerful man in this scandal write his headline. Well no question it
:06:30. > :06:40.could have been worse. It is not just nice for the wider family, well
:06:41. > :06:46.the metaphor calm ical one at least, but Rebekah Brooks's Exxon racial
:06:47. > :06:51.makes it less likely that other senior executives might be dragged
:06:52. > :06:55.into the net. But flying into town some, Rupert Murdoch himself may
:06:56. > :07:01.have to talk to police. And the bill to deal with the scandal has reached
:07:02. > :07:05.?500 million here and in the states. But while Mr Murdoch has had to
:07:06. > :07:08.split up his business, beyond just closing down the News of the World,
:07:09. > :07:14.the family and his companies have made lots more money. The opposite
:07:15. > :07:19.of value being destroyed. As a result of this split, the overall
:07:20. > :07:24.value of the enterprise has essentially tripled. That has added
:07:25. > :07:28.around $6 billion to the Murdoch family wealth. In fact it has been
:07:29. > :07:32.an extraordinarily good thing, both for the company in terms of
:07:33. > :07:37.modernising it and changing its practices and also for the Murdoch
:07:38. > :07:41.family in terms of their overall wealth. But there is still
:07:42. > :07:46.difficulties to come. But in terms of making friends or keeping old
:07:47. > :07:51.ones, for the first time in decades, Rupert Murdoch is not close to
:07:52. > :07:55.either of British leader of the opposition or the sitting Prime
:07:56. > :08:01.Minister. And with more trials to come, both of their reputations
:08:02. > :08:10.could still stand to suffer. Not even close. We're joined now which
:08:11. > :08:17.Tom Watson, the Labour MP and author. And from New York by Felix
:08:18. > :08:22.Salmon, a close observer of the Murdoch empire. We asked News
:08:23. > :08:25.Corporation for an interview but the offer was declined. Let's look at
:08:26. > :08:32.the astonishing figures coming out showing the overall value of the
:08:33. > :08:37.Murdoches has tripled. Gone up by ?6 billion in the last few years. Now
:08:38. > :08:43.if your goal, or if the goal was to bring down the Murdoch empire that
:08:44. > :08:46.has manifestly failed? That was not the goal, the goal was to expose
:08:47. > :08:50.criminality at the heart of the operation of News Corporation. But I
:08:51. > :08:54.think what these figures show is Rupert Murdoch is still an
:08:55. > :08:59.extraordinary powerful figure in global commerce and has incredible
:09:00. > :09:02.reach into politics. The reason you saw the tension in the House of
:09:03. > :09:07.Commons today is frankly politicians still fear him, he can damage them,
:09:08. > :09:13.you see what his ins can do, his television companies, his global
:09:14. > :09:18.reach. He still is a major figure in British politics and that's why the
:09:19. > :09:21.courage of politicians is important in what we do next. You think he
:09:22. > :09:25.will be back, neither leader is close to him per se at the moment,
:09:26. > :09:30.but he hasn't gone from British politics? He has never really gone
:09:31. > :09:35.away. The company have been very clever, in fact they sacked a lot of
:09:36. > :09:39.the people that were associated with the old regime at the company. They
:09:40. > :09:42.have brought some smart hires, they are improving their corporate social
:09:43. > :09:46.responsibility, I think you can see progress in the way they are
:09:47. > :09:50.cleaning up their act, but at the end of the day it is still old
:09:51. > :09:55.Rupert Murdoch who likes to move politicians around the chess board.
:09:56. > :10:03.Just explain to us why he has done so well out of this? After the
:10:04. > :10:08.hacking scandal first exploded he finally was forced to spin off all
:10:09. > :10:14.of his print operations, the newspapers basically, and the books,
:10:15. > :10:18.into a completely separate MP called news Corp, it was everything,
:10:19. > :10:23.before, including the TV and movie studios all which make real money.
:10:24. > :10:29.Now that is a new company called 21st Century Fox, worth $75 billion,
:10:30. > :10:35.and the massive discount that used to be applied to the old News Corp
:10:36. > :10:39.on the grounds that no-one likes owning newspapers these days has
:10:40. > :10:44.completely disappeared. Meanwhile the newspaper company called News
:10:45. > :10:48.Corp, which is smaller and worth about $10 million. It is looking
:10:49. > :10:52.healthy, a bunch of cash, the Wall Street Journal and some good
:10:53. > :10:56.franchises. It is also insulated. The bigger company is insulated from
:10:57. > :11:01.any kind of bad stuff that happens to News Corp now. This was a
:11:02. > :11:05.decision that Rupert Murdoch never wanted to make and he was forced to
:11:06. > :11:09.make it and as a result he has made billions of dollars. It has sort of
:11:10. > :11:14.done him a favour, having to go through these decisions has done him
:11:15. > :11:17.a favour? I'm not so sure they are insulated. Rupert Murdoch runs these
:11:18. > :11:21.companies, and only tonight we have seen Panorama reveal that the
:11:22. > :11:26.witness protection programme was compromised in 2006 by people
:11:27. > :11:31.working for the company. We see a Tom Harper story in the Independent
:11:32. > :11:35.tomorrow showing that senior, former senior, executives have been
:11:36. > :11:38.interviewed under caution in relation to potential corporate
:11:39. > :11:43.charges. This company is not out of the wood work yet. Where do you
:11:44. > :11:47.think that is going then? Which company are you talking about. Go on
:11:48. > :11:53.Felix? It depends which company you are talking about. News UK is not
:11:54. > :11:58.insulated and News Corp is not entirely insulated but at this point
:11:59. > :12:02.21st Century Fox where his real wealth is, that is insulated. I'm
:12:03. > :12:05.not sure if Rupert Murdoch's business reputation and legal
:12:06. > :12:09.position is insulated. Let's remember he dominates all of these
:12:10. > :12:13.companies. But, look, you know, I'm not going to deny, his companies
:12:14. > :12:18.make immense amounts of money, which gives him immense amounts of power.
:12:19. > :12:21.The real situation in the UK is where does the police investigation
:12:22. > :12:26.lie. If you were looking at the verdict yesterday and you say Brooks
:12:27. > :12:29.has been cleared and Andy Coulson convicted. What does that tell you
:12:30. > :12:34.about the possibility of corporate criminality now? It is not for me to
:12:35. > :12:41.convict or to decide where it goes. We now know that having denied it
:12:42. > :12:45.for five years a senior editor in News Corp was involved in phone
:12:46. > :12:50.hacking, and five other senior manager in that company have pleaded
:12:51. > :12:54.guilty. Remember for many, many years the company denied any of
:12:55. > :12:58.this, and now there is a liability. I think the prosecution authorities
:12:59. > :13:02.will be weighing that up. How was this received in the US. Because
:13:03. > :13:06.clearly the papers here for obvious reasons were split on whether they
:13:07. > :13:12.talked about the one who was cleared or the one who was convicted? I
:13:13. > :13:16.think that Coulson is considered a David Cameron story, a political
:13:17. > :13:20.story, Rebekah Brooks was the Rupert Murdoch story. When she was
:13:21. > :13:26.acquitted the general reaction in the US was well that's the corporate
:13:27. > :13:32.executive has gone free and Rupert has won this one. I wonder if you
:13:33. > :13:37.see Andy Coulson as a bit of a firewall really, the person that
:13:38. > :13:42.sort of kept the Murdoch empire there and the political world there.
:13:43. > :13:48.Do you have any sympathy for the position he has played and whether
:13:49. > :13:51.he has done it? In some ways, I also have sympathy that his course of
:13:52. > :13:54.justice is not over. I don't really want to pass judgment on him myself.
:13:55. > :13:57.You know it was never personal with him, it was all about trying to
:13:58. > :14:01.expose what went on with the company. Yes, there is no doubt
:14:02. > :14:07.about it, but in a funny sort of way the story has gone to David Cameron.
:14:08. > :14:11.In one sense that's probably obvious because he went to extraordinary
:14:12. > :14:15.lengths to keep Andy Coulson in office, he took great risks to keep
:14:16. > :14:20.him there when many people warned him that he shouldn't. But in
:14:21. > :14:24.another you know, commerce might think this company is out of the
:14:25. > :14:28.woods, but I'm not sure the British justice system thinks that yet. What
:14:29. > :14:32.does this all tell us about the role of the police and the CPS, given
:14:33. > :14:39.that this body of evidence was pretty much available back in 2006?
:14:40. > :14:49.Firstly I think the meticulous way that priest wheating Operation
:14:50. > :14:51.Wheating dealt with this shows how inadequate the original
:14:52. > :14:56.investigation was, and the only way to find out how woeful that
:14:57. > :14:59.investigation was is some investigation into the police I
:15:00. > :15:04.think the second stage of Leveson which was the bit about who did what
:15:05. > :15:08.to whom should take place. There is something very, very wrong happened
:15:09. > :15:12.with the MetropolitaPolice and their original inquiries. We will only get
:15:13. > :15:17.to the facts that have if we look in some detail. No police officer has
:15:18. > :15:20.been asked to explain why in 2006 they knew that the witness
:15:21. > :15:23.protection programme was compromised by this company and nobody did
:15:24. > :15:30.anything about it. Thank you very much. Iraq's Prime Minister, Nouri
:15:31. > :15:32.Al-Maliki, has rejected calls for a national salvation Government to
:15:33. > :15:36.help counter the offensive by ISIS in his weekly televised address he
:15:37. > :15:41.warned that forming an emergency unity Government could go against
:15:42. > :15:45.April's parliamentary elections and represented an attempt to end the
:15:46. > :15:50.democratic experience. We have our report now in Baghdad. Give us if
:15:51. > :15:58.you can the reaction to today's latest on the ground? Nouri
:15:59. > :16:01.Al-Maliki is facing two very serious but competing changes here. Number
:16:02. > :16:06.one he's trying to hold his country together in the face of this very
:16:07. > :16:10.fierce insurgency, led by ISIS, that has taken over towns and territory
:16:11. > :16:17.in the west and also in the north, but it is also supported by Sunnis
:16:18. > :16:21.in those areas who felt frozen out of the political process of a stake
:16:22. > :16:26.in this country, and further complicated by the Kurds who are
:16:27. > :16:29.also taking on territory they have long claimed. But Nouri Al-Maliki is
:16:30. > :16:33.also trying to hold on to his job, those parliamentary elections in
:16:34. > :16:37.April, he got the most votes, but he didn't win them outright. In Iraq's
:16:38. > :16:40.system of horse trading and coalition building, that doesn't
:16:41. > :16:45.necessarily mean that he still gets to be Prime Minister. So his
:16:46. > :16:48.reactions to calls for a national salvation Government have been
:16:49. > :16:52.interpreted as a Government that possibly doesn't include him as its
:16:53. > :16:55.head. He has rejected that very strongly. On the other hand he knows
:16:56. > :17:00.he needs the help of the Americans to try to defeat ISIS. He has
:17:01. > :17:04.admitted that much himself. It is clear from what the Americans have
:17:05. > :17:08.said that they see him as a devisive figure, as a man who has ruled this
:17:09. > :17:12.country, who has run it in an overtly sectarian manner and is at
:17:13. > :17:16.least partly to blame for the trouble that we are here now. When
:17:17. > :17:27.you are on the ground, how palpable is the sectarian divide that we are
:17:28. > :17:31.reporting? I don't know if you can hear me, when you are on the ground
:17:32. > :17:35.pow palpable is that sectarian divide we are reporting? I couldn't
:17:36. > :17:40.hear that question if there was one. But if you were asking me about the
:17:41. > :17:43.mood here on the ground today as that national salvation Government
:17:44. > :17:48.was rejected, Nouri Al-Maliki, number one made it clear that he
:17:49. > :17:50.wasn't rejecting the idea of forming an inclusive Government, which he
:17:51. > :17:55.says will happen in a matter of days, if not weeks. But on the
:17:56. > :18:01.ground here, if you go to Sunni areas in Baghdad, like I have been,
:18:02. > :18:06.you feel a strong sense of fear. Even amongst people who want this
:18:07. > :18:09.country to stick together. Tales of arrest and arbitary arrest that
:18:10. > :18:13.people feel very much is simply because of their faith, because they
:18:14. > :18:17.are Sunni in this country that is dominated by the Shi'ite Government.
:18:18. > :18:21.Nouri Al-Maliki holds not only the Prime Ministership but also the two
:18:22. > :18:26.crucial security ministries, defence and interior, and that has led many
:18:27. > :18:30.to feel in this still unstable nation, many in the Sunni community
:18:31. > :18:45.that they have simply been frozen out. The Islamic state of Iraq and
:18:46. > :18:52.ISIS have uploaded up videos of their activities even crucifixions,
:18:53. > :19:04.but ISIS members do not like to be named by the Islamic term because of
:19:05. > :19:07.the extremism. Parallels brought -- in a moment an exclusive interview
:19:08. > :19:13.with a British man fighting in Syria, but first a brief explanation
:19:14. > :19:17.of what Haraj means. During the last days there will
:19:18. > :19:25.appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but
:19:26. > :19:31.their faith will not go beyond their throats. They will leave their
:19:32. > :19:33.religion as a bird goes after its prey, where you find them, kill
:19:34. > :19:38.them. These words attributed to the
:19:39. > :19:47.Prophet Mohammed were said to show the first group of extremists in
:19:48. > :19:51.Islam, "those who leave". They emerged in southern Iraq in the 7th
:19:52. > :19:55.century. In the years following Mohammed's death, battle raged
:19:56. > :19:59.between his son-in-law and the Governor of Syria over who should
:20:00. > :20:03.lead the Muslims. Is it peace negotiations were started between
:20:04. > :20:09.the two as to which of them it should be. This angered some of
:20:10. > :20:15.early supporters who believe God not man must choose the leader, and this
:20:16. > :20:22.group broke away. Furious with Ali for agreeing to negotiations, and
:20:23. > :20:26.the other for trying to usurp his title. They were famed for their
:20:27. > :20:29.religious fervour but also brutality, massacring Muslims who
:20:30. > :20:34.disagreed with their interpretation of Islam, including Ali. The
:20:35. > :20:39.original group were eventually defeated and they are considered her
:20:40. > :20:43.particulars, but their legacy still resonates, the term is used to
:20:44. > :20:50.describe groups considered too extreme. The Algerian Islamist group
:20:51. > :21:01.GIA, in the 1990s carried out civilian massacres is thoughed to
:21:02. > :21:08.have become modern day Khawrij. And Al-Qaeda have been accused of being
:21:09. > :21:14.the same. Even ISIS have been accused of had heing Khawraji, they
:21:15. > :21:21.deny being that, while the group continues its march towards southern
:21:22. > :21:25.Iraq, the birth place of Islam's first extremists. We have
:21:26. > :21:28.interviewed a British man from Brighton fighting in Syria. He
:21:29. > :21:31.travelled with his two younger brothers, one of whom was killed
:21:32. > :21:36.three months ago. He's not part of ISIS, but has been fighting
:21:37. > :21:42.alongside the Al-Qaeda affiliated group, and more MoD raid Islamist
:21:43. > :21:45.groups. Senior figures have criticised ISIS and their
:21:46. > :21:50.activities. It illustrates the divisions between fighters in Syria.
:21:51. > :26:03.We sent him questions and he videoed his replies.
:26:04. > :26:10.Joining me now is the chair of contemporary Middle East studies at
:26:11. > :26:14.the LSE who has written extensively on Al-Qaeda and spoken to hundreds
:26:15. > :26:18.of fighters in their ranks. Thank you for coming in. Do the opinions
:26:19. > :26:22.that you heard there of one extremist sound familiar to you. Are
:26:23. > :26:26.these what other Brits out there fighting in Syria are saying? You
:26:27. > :26:34.know what you have heard really is a scripted ideolgical template by an
:26:35. > :26:39.Al-Qaeda operative. A well known view on victimhood and distorted
:26:40. > :26:42.reading of the Muslim doctrine. He doesn't speak for the Sunni
:26:43. > :26:47.community, he says he's defending for the Muslim community. He speaks
:26:48. > :26:52.for a hyper-minority Sunni view, what we call the Al-Qaeda family. He
:26:53. > :26:55.says they are not interested in returning, for example, they are not
:26:56. > :27:00.a threat to this country once they return, do you believe that? Emily,
:27:01. > :27:05.no, I don't. I would not take what he says for granted for two major
:27:06. > :27:08.reasons, first, we know that wars are transformative. What he says
:27:09. > :27:14.today might not hold in one or two years. His world might be shattered,
:27:15. > :27:17.deep scars, we know what wars do. Exactly what we need to understand
:27:18. > :27:21.about Al-Qaeda, whether you are talking about the parent
:27:22. > :27:28.organisation, Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden and others, or the Islamic
:27:29. > :27:32.state, this is a top-down vanguard elitist, secretive, self-enclosed
:27:33. > :27:41.movement. This gentleman here does not basically act and say what he
:27:42. > :27:48.believes in, he basically has sworn the oath to the chief, the Amir of
:27:49. > :27:51.the Islamic state. If the Amir, the chief of ISIS says to him, look I
:27:52. > :27:55.want you to commit to carry out a suicide bombing, he would have to do
:27:56. > :27:58.it. This is the reality, this is a vanguard, top-down organisation and
:27:59. > :28:02.elitist organisation. That is why I would not take his words for
:28:03. > :28:07.granted. Of course this man is not in ISIS, but just the factions, the
:28:08. > :28:13.sectarianism is mind-boggling now. If you try to explain to our viewers
:28:14. > :28:25.that Al-Qaeda, who are behind 9/11, consider ISIS to be too extreme,
:28:26. > :28:29.then... Emily ISIS's extremism gives Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden a good
:28:30. > :28:36.name, this is how bad it is. Look what has happened between ISIS, the
:28:37. > :28:42.Islamic state and the official arm of Al-Qaeda. I mean ISIS has
:28:43. > :28:47.butchered hundreds of the official arm of Al-Qaeda. They have killed
:28:48. > :28:54.hundreds of them. They not only excommunicate their enemies, the
:28:55. > :28:59.Syrian Government and civilians, they excommunicate Al-Qaeda-linked
:29:00. > :29:07.fighters because they disagree with their politics. ISIS is a her
:29:08. > :29:11.receiptic movement because it celebrates -- her receiptic movement
:29:12. > :29:14.because it celebrates violence. How will that change if the US and UK
:29:15. > :29:20.enter the equation? I have no doubt in my mind, when we talk about
:29:21. > :29:24.Al-Qaeda, Al-Qaeda is a family, you have sisters and brothers, Osama Bin
:29:25. > :29:27.Laden was the far enemy to the United States and the enemies. The
:29:28. > :29:33.main target of the Al-Qaeda groups today is the near enemy, the local,
:29:34. > :29:37.the Arab and Muslim leaders. But if the United Stat basically decides to
:29:38. > :29:42.take on ISIS in Iraq and Syria I could easily seen the lines blurred
:29:43. > :29:45.between the far and near enemy. I could easily see this gentleman
:29:46. > :29:48.basically deciding and designing attacks against the United States
:29:49. > :29:55.and its allies, particularly the western countries. It takes a
:29:56. > :30:00.certain kind of mind to come up with a ruse like this one, Wonga,
:30:01. > :30:05.Britain's most famous pay-day lender invented a law firm in order to send
:30:06. > :30:09.its customers threatening letters over legal action against
:30:10. > :30:14.outstanding debt. They then charged the customers for the time the fake
:30:15. > :30:18.law firm had spent being well a fake law firm. Today the Financial
:30:19. > :30:26.Conduct Authority ordered Wonga to pay ?2. 5 million compensation to
:30:27. > :30:30.their rather real 45,000 customers. Few things are as stressful as
:30:31. > :30:35.receiving letters from debt collectors and lawyers. But imagine
:30:36. > :30:39.receiving a letter from a law firm, threatening legal action and then
:30:40. > :30:45.discovering that the firm doesn't actually exist. That's the situation
:30:46. > :30:55.45,000 customers of Wonga found themselves in between 2008 and 2010.
:30:56. > :31:01.With a loan from Wongsawat.com, you will decide the amount you want.
:31:02. > :31:05.Today the Financial Conduct Authority has forced the company to
:31:06. > :31:15.pay compensation worth ?2. 6 million to those affected. To put pressure
:31:16. > :31:19.on those who owed them cash, Wonga sent pressure from what appeared to
:31:20. > :31:23.be two law firms. Despite coming from Wonga itself, the letters
:31:24. > :31:44.opened... The letters claimed to come from
:31:45. > :31:47.Barker and Lowe. We are not surprised but horrified by the news.
:31:48. > :31:53.The reason is we have been worried about the whole of the payday
:31:54. > :31:55.industry for a considerable time because of the reports we get from
:31:56. > :32:00.people coming for assistance to us. It is partly because the business
:32:01. > :32:03.model for payday lending is all about thriving on deepening debt. It
:32:04. > :32:07.is also because some of the dubious practices we see across the industry
:32:08. > :32:14.and we don't accept the argument that this is just rogue outliars, it
:32:15. > :32:18.is clearly across the industry. These offices in west London were
:32:19. > :32:21.once home to Wonga's HQ, coincidently they were also the
:32:22. > :32:25.where the letters from the fake law firms claimed to come. Somewhere in
:32:26. > :32:30.the rooms in here someone had to sit down and think of names for two fake
:32:31. > :32:37.law firm, how did they do it, you wonder. In a fervour, even more
:32:38. > :32:42.striking coincidence, those two fake firms share their names with members
:32:43. > :32:59.of Wonga's staff. Wonga today have issued a statement:
:33:00. > :33:06.An apology and compensation payments are one thing, but why won't they be
:33:07. > :33:09.subject to a fine as well. The Financial Conduct Authority took
:33:10. > :33:14.over regulation of consumer lenders this April. It says it can't issue
:33:15. > :33:19.fines for behaviour before this date. But there's another issue at
:33:20. > :33:24.play here too. Surely people have been asking, pretending to be a law
:33:25. > :33:29.firm when you might not even have a GCSE is law is, well, against the
:33:30. > :33:34.law. Not exactly. People can set up and call themselves law firms, they
:33:35. > :33:37.can't set themselves up and call themselves solicitors, because that
:33:38. > :33:40.would be an offence, they can call themselves a law firm even though
:33:41. > :33:44.they are not lawyers, and certain things they can do without actually
:33:45. > :33:48.being properly regulated at all. That has to be a concern. Calling
:33:49. > :33:53.yourself a solicitor or a barrister when you are not will get you into
:33:54. > :33:57.serious trouble. But as long as you avoid those terms and are careful
:33:58. > :34:02.with your wording, there is quite a big grey area that can be exploited.
:34:03. > :34:08.We asked Wonga to appear on the programme tonight, they declined. So
:34:09. > :34:14.since it seems pretty much anyone can call themselves a lawyer now
:34:15. > :34:22.aday, we thought we would try this. They may not want to talk to
:34:23. > :34:25.Newsnight, but maybe a letter from Duncan Weldon Associates might
:34:26. > :34:30.change their mind. Sadly, we didn't make it past reception.
:34:31. > :34:33.Who knows, maybe the letter did. Campaigners seeking the right to die
:34:34. > :34:36.without risk of their loved ones being prosecuted lost their
:34:37. > :34:40.challenge in the Supreme Court today. But in a significant ruling
:34:41. > :34:46.the Supreme Court concluded it does have the power to declare the law
:34:47. > :34:52.which creme Ialises acts of those who help to take a life as
:34:53. > :34:56.incompatible with human life. It directed parliament to consider
:34:57. > :35:02.assisted parliament or see judges stepping in. The case came from the
:35:03. > :35:08.widow of Tony Nicklinson and by Paul Lamb, who gave this exclusive
:35:09. > :35:11.interview. The Supreme Court have ruled against
:35:12. > :35:15.you, you have lost your case, but they have said that parliament,
:35:16. > :35:19.effectively, should know change the law on assisted suicide, how do you
:35:20. > :35:25.feel about that? I think it is a step in the right direction, because
:35:26. > :35:31.it is now, I believe, forcing parliament to take it on board, and
:35:32. > :35:35.if they don't, from what I have heard, I will have a right to come
:35:36. > :35:40.back to the Supreme Court, for them to make a judgment. So it is kind of
:35:41. > :35:49.a victory wrapped in a defeat, really? Yeah. But whatever way you
:35:50. > :35:55.look at it, the one thing that I was saying to my two carers last night,
:35:56. > :36:01.I actually feel proud of myself for what I have done, for myself and a
:36:02. > :36:06.lot of other people that perhaps haven't got the strength to, the
:36:07. > :36:14.strength that this journey has taken, which once again it is
:36:15. > :36:17.knocking the stuffing out of me. What do you say to people that they
:36:18. > :36:23.have huge sympathy, empathy with you, but life is sacred, and there
:36:24. > :36:26.should be no change to the law that allows assisting a suicide? I have
:36:27. > :36:33.all the respect in the world for individuals and their beliefs. All
:36:34. > :36:39.the respect. It is their views, it is their, it is what they are, and
:36:40. > :36:43.I'm what I am. But I do resent them stopping me, because these are
:36:44. > :36:48.people usually that don't experience pain, they really don't. When the
:36:49. > :36:54.pain is bad what's that like for you? I just literally compared it
:36:55. > :36:58.with being hit by a bus, laid on the floor and waiting for somebody to
:36:59. > :37:03.come and pick me up and take me to the hospital and make me better, and
:37:04. > :37:07.that is the experience I get. And when it comes it is horrible. People
:37:08. > :37:11.will listen to you, Paul, and they will say, look this is a really
:37:12. > :37:18.intelligent and articulate man, he's still part of life, he as still able
:37:19. > :37:22.to converse to enjoy things, to travel, to read, there should never
:37:23. > :37:29.be a law that allows someone like that to be assisted to die? Firstly
:37:30. > :37:35.I would thank them for those comments, but when I get a good day
:37:36. > :37:40.it is, it is fantastic, and you know there will be a granddaughter coming
:37:41. > :37:48.along soon. My daughter in Australia she's got a little girl and they are
:37:49. > :37:53.living on the beach, just 800ms up from where they film Home and Away
:37:54. > :37:59.on television, so I have helped them get there. I mean and I do take a
:38:00. > :38:04.part in that because between my wife and myself we did a great job with
:38:05. > :38:09.them and they are fantastic kids. People will say with all of that, to
:38:10. > :38:15.enjoy, why is it that at some point you want a doctor to assist you to
:38:16. > :38:22.end your life? I have seen people, I have got to know and be friends with
:38:23. > :38:26.and I have seen quite a few people die, suffering badly, really badly
:38:27. > :38:33.and I have actually seen their family come to see these people and
:38:34. > :38:37.the family has been crying, it makes them so upset seeing a loved one
:38:38. > :38:44.going through such pain. I just want it there for when I know it is the
:38:45. > :38:51.end of the road. And I will know. If I can't be got right, I don't wish
:38:52. > :38:57.to spend years in bed just screaming out in pain. To believe it or not my
:38:58. > :39:02.son and daughter don't want that. In fact I sent an e-mail out, it was
:39:03. > :39:10.one to a lot of people, including my son and daughter saying that I'm in
:39:11. > :39:15.court today and my son wrote one back and said so proud of you dad,
:39:16. > :39:21.kiss, kiss. It touches me stuff like that. And I love him to bits, I
:39:22. > :39:27.really do. That was Paul talking to Clive, who is here now. Incredibly
:39:28. > :39:32.moving that interview, but as Paul says, it was a step forward in one
:39:33. > :39:37.way, but he lost. What Paul wanted and what the late Tony Nicklinson,
:39:38. > :39:43.now represented by his widow wanted was a declaration that our blanket
:39:44. > :39:47.ban on assisting a suicide, which prevents people like Paul and Tony
:39:48. > :39:53.from getting assistance to end their life at a time that they choose.
:39:54. > :39:58.That blanket ban was incompatible with his Article 8 right to have a
:39:59. > :40:03.private and family life. He lost on that by a majority of 7-2, two of
:40:04. > :40:08.the justices were prepared to grant that declaration, but that was a
:40:09. > :40:15.loss. However, having said that, by a slim majority two of the justices
:40:16. > :40:19.ruled that blanket ban was potentially inpatable and the others
:40:20. > :40:23.-- incompatible and two others thought so too. Six of the justices
:40:24. > :40:27.effectively said now parliament it is up to you to look at amending
:40:28. > :40:31.this legislation. So what happened there really was a flexing of the
:40:32. > :40:35.court's constitutional muscles saying look, over to you parliament,
:40:36. > :40:42.look at amending this legislation. We don't really think a lot of it.
:40:43. > :40:46.One said that the infringement into Paul Lamb's private life was grave
:40:47. > :40:52.as a result of the blanket ban. Have a look at it, and if you don't do
:40:53. > :40:56.anything we have the power to make a declaration of incompatibility over
:40:57. > :41:01.this ban. If we did that there would be a prisoner vote situation where a
:41:02. > :41:05.blanket ban was deemed to be in breach of convention rights. It is
:41:06. > :41:08.over to parliament now? It is, and will parliament do anything about
:41:09. > :41:16.it. There is no great signs that there is a huge will to do so. Next
:41:17. > :41:20.month Lord Faulkner has a bill on assisted dying, this is for people
:41:21. > :41:23.terminally ill with six months to live. If parliament doesn't do
:41:24. > :41:29.anything or enact legislation, what could happen is this could come back
:41:30. > :41:32.to the Supreme Court, and if they then make a declaration of
:41:33. > :41:35.incompatibility, then you have a real stand-off between our most
:41:36. > :41:42.powerful court and parliament, you have the makings there of a
:41:43. > :41:52.constitutional crisis. The teeth marks on his left shoulder had two
:41:53. > :41:55.explanation, either he walked backwards into Suarez's mouth or he
:41:56. > :42:00.has been at it again. Suarez has form when it comes to biting, this
:42:01. > :42:03.is the third time he has chomped an opposition player in anger. He could
:42:04. > :42:07.face ban from the World Cup, even two years. No doubt aching
:42:08. > :42:11.frustration from his team-mates. There may also be a hefty economic
:42:12. > :42:18.cost to the bite as sponsors threaten to abandon the footballer
:42:19. > :42:27.they nickname "Jaws". We have a sports psychology on the programme.
:42:28. > :42:33.Andrews Andrea, why, not once, not twice, but why? It is such a strange
:42:34. > :42:36.act for people to see, particularly in live sport at this particular
:42:37. > :42:40.level. You have got highly successful, highly competitive
:42:41. > :42:44.people and obviously he's a star player, to see this sort of thing a
:42:45. > :42:49.great question. It is repetitive behaviour so it would suggest that
:42:50. > :42:54.there is some difficulty in changing the behaviour. But I think that it
:42:55. > :42:58.is almost the question of why begs more questions from me. If he wasn't
:42:59. > :43:02.a footballer or one of the most highly paid sports men in the world
:43:03. > :43:06.we would say that is assault. If I did that to you it would be assault,
:43:07. > :43:13.nobody would be asking why, would they? That's right. It is the topic
:43:14. > :43:18.of biting typically comes up with toddlers in terms of acting out in
:43:19. > :43:22.frustration, not quite understanding why they are behaving like that.
:43:23. > :43:26.There are other areas of psychology that we will look into the act of
:43:27. > :43:31.biting and it often involves acts of aggression. What about toddlers, it
:43:32. > :43:36.is presumably because they haven't got words or language? There is the
:43:37. > :43:41.emotion and frustration. That is what we would assume is going on
:43:42. > :43:45.with Luis. He's very frustrated in these particular circumstances and
:43:46. > :43:52.he's acting out in that frustration, but very impulsively. So without any
:43:53. > :43:56.rational thought. If you were talking to a toddler or footballer
:43:57. > :43:59.how do you break the cycle, obviously it is at a moment when
:44:00. > :44:05.they are on the pitch, nobody is going to step in, and say don't bite
:44:06. > :44:09.that guy? When we think about elite sport and particularly football,
:44:10. > :44:15.they are competing quite a lot. So in terms of being able to stop,
:44:16. > :44:19.reset, make some behavioral changes and maybe some cognitive changes as
:44:20. > :44:24.well t takes time and effort and motivation to want to make that
:44:25. > :44:29.change. So time out of the sport and... Like two years? Well, you
:44:30. > :44:33.know, I keep saying it but there seems to be more questions that come
:44:34. > :44:37.than answers in terms of why this behaviour is repetitive and why it
:44:38. > :44:40.is on going, we need to investigate the factors leading to this sort of
:44:41. > :44:43.behaviour. Thank you very much indeed. Let's take you through the
:44:44. > :45:37.papers and front pages of tomorrow. A clarification now, earlier in the
:45:38. > :45:40.programme there was a suggestion that Rupert Murdoch was flying into
:45:41. > :45:42.the country to be questioned by police, although it is understood
:45:43. > :45:48.the Metropolitan Police are planning to talk to Mr Murdoch, it was wrong
:45:49. > :45:50.to imply any interview was imminent. That is all we have time for, good
:45:51. > :46:05.night. Good evening, Thursday is set to be
:46:06. > :46:10.a fine day for most of us across the country, there is a little bit of
:46:11. > :46:13.rain on the way. It could turn heavy in the afternoon across the south
:46:14. > :46:17.west of England and south of Wales too. This is the only place in the
:46:18. > :46:21.country where we will see the heavy rain, the vast majority of us will
:46:22. > :46:23.enjoy bright weather. Here is Scotland and Northern Ireland, apart
:46:24. > :46:24.from thicker cloud and maybe a