:00:00. > :00:12.A dossier detailing alleged child sex abuse involving prominent public
:00:13. > :00:20.figures 30 years ago is missing from Home Office files. The Home
:00:21. > :00:25.Secretary at the time are Sir Leon Brittan says he passed it on to
:00:26. > :00:30.officials. Is it time for an historic inquiry into child abuse.
:00:31. > :00:35.Violence flares after the body of a Palestinian teenager is found today.
:00:36. > :00:45.Was it the reprisal for the murder of three teenage Israelis. It raises
:00:46. > :00:51.the tit for tat sectarian murder. On the eve of a charm offensive by Ed
:00:52. > :01:00.Miliband, is Labour an attractive proposition for business? Does
:01:01. > :01:14.business trust Labour? Pass. Bodies on the beaches of the Isle of Wight,
:01:15. > :01:18.could burials at sea be to blame. Good evening. The former Home
:01:19. > :01:22.Secretary, Sir Leon Brittan has become embroiled in a row over what
:01:23. > :01:26.action he took and didn't take when given a dossier in the 1980s
:01:27. > :01:34.containing allegations of child sex abuse. The file was one of a number
:01:35. > :01:37.prepared foe the late Tory MP Jeffrey Dickens, claiming prominent
:01:38. > :01:43.figures were involved in paedophilia. Sir Leon Brittan said
:01:44. > :01:48.he passed it to officials for further examination. The dossier is
:01:49. > :01:53.now missing. Police are now sure this man was a serial sex offender,
:01:54. > :02:02.to date there have been 144 complaints against Sir Cyril Smith,
:02:03. > :02:08.he escaped prosecution in his lifetime. There has long been a
:02:09. > :02:12.suspicion that it went further, that others could have been members of a
:02:13. > :02:15.ring involved in child abuse. We know from my investigations into
:02:16. > :02:19.Cyril Smith that he was abusing boys up and down the country, involved in
:02:20. > :02:23.a network within London of abuse. And I think we need to name the
:02:24. > :02:28.other perpetrators that belonged to that network. 30 years ago this man
:02:29. > :02:32.was a campaigner, a thorn in the side of the establishment. The late
:02:33. > :02:38.Tory MP Jeffrey Dickens spend most of his career fighting child abuse.
:02:39. > :02:44.In 1981 he used parliamentary privilege to name the diplomat, Sir
:02:45. > :02:49.Peter Hayman, now dead, as a paedophile. Who years later we now
:02:50. > :02:53.know he handed two lengthy dossiers to the then Home Secretary, Sir Leon
:02:54. > :02:57.Brittan, dossiers thought to contain the name of suspected abusers in
:02:58. > :03:01.high office. Those papers were delivered here, to what was then the
:03:02. > :03:06.Home Office, it is the contents of those two bundles which are now at
:03:07. > :03:14.the centre of this complicated and murky story. Sir Leon Brittan
:03:15. > :03:20.leaving his London tomorrow today. -- home today. There will be a
:03:21. > :03:23.statement tomorrow. He said he didn't remember being handed the
:03:24. > :03:38.dossier in the first place. But he released a statement.
:03:39. > :03:43.But later this afternoon he clarified his position again. The
:03:44. > :03:49.Home Office said a review last year of old documents, that went almost
:03:50. > :03:54.unnoticed at the time found a letter from Lord Brittan that found parts
:03:55. > :04:02.of the documents were sent to prosecutors, it found that Lord
:04:03. > :04:07.Brittan had acted properly in the situation. He's looking evasive, the
:04:08. > :04:10.comments he put out today are contrary to what he said previously.
:04:11. > :04:14.He changed some of his statement during the course of today in
:04:15. > :04:17.response to things the Home Office officials were saying. It doesn't
:04:18. > :04:21.move us any further forward. Perhaps there is a need for him to go before
:04:22. > :04:26.a Select Committee and answer questions. In many ways today's
:04:27. > :04:32.statements raise far more questions than answers. We still don't know
:04:33. > :04:35.exactly what kind of material was in the files, and do they still exist,
:04:36. > :04:40.and what kinds of actions did the police, just round the corner in
:04:41. > :04:47.Scotland Yard, take based on that material. In newspaper interviews
:04:48. > :04:53.Jeffrey Dickens threatened to expose prominent figures if they failed to
:04:54. > :04:56.act. He told the Daily Express, "I have eight names of big important
:04:57. > :05:00.figures and I will expose them in parliament, one of these people is a
:05:01. > :05:04.friend of mine, but you have to be merciless protecting the young". For
:05:05. > :05:08.reasons that are not clear, Dickens never carried through with the
:05:09. > :05:12.threat. And the individual, if the list ever existed, were never named.
:05:13. > :05:15.The Home Office said this evening that despite a search of the records
:05:16. > :05:21.their copies of the original dossier are now missing. The public will be
:05:22. > :05:26.astonished that documents from the 1980s, this isn't the 1880s, it is
:05:27. > :05:32.the 1980s, have not been returned. They will be astonished the because
:05:33. > :05:35.the detail in those includes accusations against alleged
:05:36. > :05:39.paedophiles. They will be astonished that they have been destroyed. And
:05:40. > :05:42.the public will conclude and you can understand them concluding this,
:05:43. > :05:46.that they have been destroyed in an attempt to protect the names of the
:05:47. > :05:51.people that are named in the dossier who can blame the public for
:05:52. > :05:55.reaching that conclusion. More than 120 MPs from all parties are now
:05:56. > :05:58.calling for a full inquiry into allegations of historic sex abuse.
:05:59. > :06:03.They say only that can shed some light on events of 30 or 40 years
:06:04. > :06:06.ago. But with documents lost, and memories fading, many fear it may
:06:07. > :06:12.already be too late to get at the full truth.
:06:13. > :06:16.I'm joined now by the former Children's Minister who has written
:06:17. > :06:21.to the Home Secretary Theresa May in the past asking for an overarching
:06:22. > :06:25.inquiry into historic cases of sex abarks and the Labour chair of the
:06:26. > :06:30.all-party group on child protection in the Commons. Before we get on to
:06:31. > :06:34.the idea of an inquiry, what do you make of the fact in the 1980s, the
:06:35. > :06:39.Home Office seems to have mislaid this dossier? It compounds the
:06:40. > :06:42.scepticism people have about why these things weren't taken
:06:43. > :06:47.seriously. There are all sorts of other things, not involving
:06:48. > :06:51.celebrities or politicians, the police are given evidence and it
:06:52. > :06:54.gets shoved under the carpet. It adds to question marks that are
:06:55. > :06:57.coming every day and week as the story goes on. It leads to a whole
:06:58. > :07:01.question of trust, why should the public trust authority? I think what
:07:02. > :07:04.we are looking at here is an issue at the moment about what has
:07:05. > :07:06.happened to this information, and there should be at least clear
:07:07. > :07:09.information within the Home Office and within the police as to what
:07:10. > :07:13.they have done with those records. I worked in social services in the
:07:14. > :07:16.1980s and there were very clear procedures around what you did with
:07:17. > :07:21.files and information. And that's what the public has a right to
:07:22. > :07:25.expect. On a question of an actual parliamentary inquiry what are the
:07:26. > :07:37.parameters, what are the areas, the problem is we have been incredibly
:07:38. > :07:43.member nebulus? We are getting new charges of historic abuse, we had
:07:44. > :07:47.Jimmy Savile and Rofl Harris, more next week on Rochdale children's
:07:48. > :07:55.homes, the NHS, the BBC, independent schools, music schools. This is a
:07:56. > :07:59.drip, drip effect. What would be the value of conflating those into an
:08:00. > :08:03.inquiry? We are having all these confusing places going on, and new
:08:04. > :08:07.reviews set up all the time that are reporting, another one reports
:08:08. > :08:10.conflicting evidence, the public is absolutely confused and losing
:08:11. > :08:15.confidence that children are being protected now. We need to put it
:08:16. > :08:19.into historical context to know what went wrong and how it went wrong.
:08:20. > :08:22.You are a specialist in child protection, you are looking into it,
:08:23. > :08:26.why haven't you signed up for this inquiry? I'm not convinced this is
:08:27. > :08:29.the right way forward. If there are individual allegations then those
:08:30. > :08:32.should be investigated by the police, and the fact that we have
:08:33. > :08:36.had these allegations made, which have been investigated and now we
:08:37. > :08:40.have got successful prosecutions is making it much more likely that
:08:41. > :08:43.people will come forward. We know that is happening. My view is that
:08:44. > :08:46.we already know a lot about what went wrong, we know what we should
:08:47. > :08:50.be doing now, and I think there are questions about how the Government
:08:51. > :08:55.is managing child sexual abuse now, and how we are looking after and
:08:56. > :08:59.making sure that those are properly investigated today. What you are
:09:00. > :09:02.looking for is a review of what is happening now, rather than historic
:09:03. > :09:07.inquiry? The all-party group which Tim is also on, has done an inquiry
:09:08. > :09:11.into child sexual abuse, we have come up with recommendation,
:09:12. > :09:14.particularly around whistle blowing and better train, which would make
:09:15. > :09:20.things better for children now. Isn't there a real problem, as we
:09:21. > :09:23.see in all kinds of cases with whistle blowing? There is, and
:09:24. > :09:28.that's why it is really important that the Government looks again at
:09:29. > :09:30.its guidance and making sure that whistleblowers when they come
:09:31. > :09:34.forward know they will be taken seriously. There is a form of
:09:35. > :09:39.whistle blowing that can be called parliamentary privilege, if you have
:09:40. > :09:42.information with he Sufics, why not use parliamentary privilege? It may
:09:43. > :09:46.come to that. I won't ask that clearly? We won't go into detail. Do
:09:47. > :09:49.you have information? Certain people have come to us with all sorts of
:09:50. > :09:54.information. We need to make sure it is coroborated. But I'm much more
:09:55. > :09:57.interested in putting all this into the context of where we have come
:09:58. > :10:01.from. The great irony is this Government has done an awful lot in
:10:02. > :10:06.child protection, overhaul the child protection system. I launched the
:10:07. > :10:09.child sex exploitation plan to deal with the gangs doing this now.
:10:10. > :10:13.Children are safer now, but all that good work is being undermined by the
:10:14. > :10:18.doubt and question marks coming from the drip, drip feed of the historic
:10:19. > :10:21.cases. You are saying people coming to you are private or public
:10:22. > :10:26.figures? Private individuals with all sorts of allegations. What do
:10:27. > :10:30.you think is behind the fact there isn't an investigation, are you
:10:31. > :10:33.alleging a cover-up? We don't know, that is the point. When you have
:10:34. > :10:39.reports going mission, when you have police not acting on victims, very
:10:40. > :10:43.clearly having come forward. Was there some conspiracy, was it
:10:44. > :10:47.complacency? Was there a network going on? We don't know. Until we
:10:48. > :10:52.lay all this bear, every stone should be turned over, we won't know
:10:53. > :10:55.to give confidence back to the public and we are doing it right
:10:56. > :11:00.now. Are you saying actually there is a possibility the police are not
:11:01. > :11:03.acting correctly? They haven't in the past. Why should the public have
:11:04. > :11:08.trust in the police. What we are seeing now is allegations of child
:11:09. > :11:11.abuse current and historical are taken seriously. The police are the
:11:12. > :11:16.right people to investigate not parliament. Fears of a new cycle of
:11:17. > :11:19.violence in the Middle East grew today with clashes in Jerusalem
:11:20. > :11:25.between Palestinians and Israeli police, and a surge in violence on
:11:26. > :11:29.the Israel-Gaza border. The clashes followed the discovery of a body of
:11:30. > :11:33.a 17-year-old Palestinian boy who some claim was killed in revenge for
:11:34. > :11:37.the death of three Israeli teenagers, whose bodies were found
:11:38. > :11:41.on Monday, three weeks after their disappearance on the West Bank.
:11:42. > :11:47.First of all, how serious were the clashes today? You know, you might
:11:48. > :11:51.argue, compared to what was going on in Syria, or Iraq today, that this
:11:52. > :11:55.was something on all together a lower level. But these clashes have
:11:56. > :12:03.raised fears for a number of reasons here. In the first place, this area
:12:04. > :12:06.in east Jerusalem has not seen street fights like this for years.
:12:07. > :12:10.This is part of the West Bank that was annexed by the Israelis and is
:12:11. > :12:15.meant to be place where they consider there to be greater order
:12:16. > :12:19.than the West Bank proper. Also there was an intensity to the
:12:20. > :12:23.violence which also shocked some people. There was one incident where
:12:24. > :12:28.man was thrown to the ground and was being terribly beaten by a crowd of
:12:29. > :12:34.Palestinian youths. The reality police ran in to rescue the man and
:12:35. > :12:39.to bring him to his feet. This man turned out to be a Palestinian
:12:40. > :12:45.local, but he was accused of being a collaborator, it is all just part of
:12:46. > :12:48.a sense that there is here of great fury burning away beneath the
:12:49. > :12:52.surface of both communities. As you say beneath the surface, what is the
:12:53. > :13:00.potential for it to escalate, no matter what political leaders are
:13:01. > :13:08.saying? The interesting thing that has happened to is Prime Minister
:13:09. > :13:14.Netenyahu has condemned the discovery of the body a despicable
:13:15. > :13:19.murder. The Palestinians know that Israelis who are found guilty of
:13:20. > :13:24.murder are often treated differently to Palestinians in the same
:13:25. > :13:26.situation. Mr Abbas, their President, has therefore called
:13:27. > :13:30.today for those guilty of this murder to face the strongest
:13:31. > :13:33.punishment, as he put it. But I think you get the sense from both
:13:34. > :13:44.sides of a deeper in vowsness about the public mood. On social media, on
:13:45. > :13:48.both sides of this divide, Israeli and Palestinian there is a lot of
:13:49. > :13:54.concern. We heard a group of Israeli youths tonight on the way here
:13:55. > :14:02.chanting anti-Arab slogans. With the peace process going nowhere,
:14:03. > :14:06.abandoned by both sides, with no direction. Heavily armed settlers
:14:07. > :14:10.and people in the West Bank responding to one another could gain
:14:11. > :14:16.a momentum of their own, particularly in Ramadan, and lead to
:14:17. > :14:19.an upward spiral in this violence. The Labour leadership is going
:14:20. > :14:24.wooing this week. The object of their aFKSs -- affections is
:14:25. > :14:29.business in Britain, with whom it has had a tricky relationship, more
:14:30. > :14:36.off than on. Tomorrow Ed Miliband will announce a whole slew of
:14:37. > :14:39.reforms including tackling the short-termism holding British
:14:40. > :14:45.business back. This comes hot on the heels with Shadow char, Ed Balls,
:14:46. > :14:49.promising a fourth way to replace the third way for business. How
:14:50. > :14:58.attractive is this offering to business.
:14:59. > :15:02.Imagine, a world where Ed Miliband is in charge of the Government. Ed
:15:03. > :15:07.Balls in charge of the economy. What do the people who make do and sell
:15:08. > :15:12.really hope, what does business think Labour's for? One senior
:15:13. > :15:16.figure told me the sense of alienation between Labour and
:15:17. > :15:21.business is profound. They worry the efforts made by Blair and Brown to
:15:22. > :15:26.build rapport have simply been abandoned. But another figure
:15:27. > :15:30.suggested the truth is Ed Miliband just doesn't like big business.
:15:31. > :15:34.There is a clear sense that in business, when you are dealing with
:15:35. > :15:38.people in politics behind closed doors, they will say one thing to
:15:39. > :15:41.you, and they will tend to be really supportive of what you are trying to
:15:42. > :15:45.achieve. Equally when they go out and speak to the public, there is an
:15:46. > :15:48.expectation that the public want to hear something different and the
:15:49. > :15:53.politicians will tend to say what they believe the public wants to
:15:54. > :15:59.hear. Does business trust Labour? Pass! The Labour leader paraded with
:16:00. > :16:04.one of Britain's most popular businessmen.
:16:05. > :16:08.It took sweat, tears and an awful lot of prawn cocktail to stitch
:16:09. > :16:14.together Labour's new business backing. One young Treasury wonk
:16:15. > :16:18.would grow up to say how few rules they introduced, "light touch", we
:16:19. > :16:22.know how that turned out. With business well behind in the
:16:23. > :16:25.popularity stake, Ed Balls talks in a manner inconceivable to his
:16:26. > :16:29.forebears. The next Labour Government will freeze gas and
:16:30. > :16:34.electricity prices. We need a reckoning with our banks. Not for
:16:35. > :16:41.retribution, but for reform. Are you on the side of the wealth creators
:16:42. > :16:47.or the asset strippers, the producers or the predators. There
:16:48. > :16:51.are nerves in the City. There is a -- There is a risk they revert back
:16:52. > :16:56.to anti-business sentiment, the type we have seen in the past. If they do
:16:57. > :17:01.that, that will give business some level of discomfort. Both sides of
:17:02. > :17:07.the political divide have been taking pot shots at business, there
:17:08. > :17:11.needs to be balance in the rhetoric. Industry always has complaints about
:17:12. > :17:18.the political machine though, many big players prefer Labour's position
:17:19. > :17:21.on Europe. And small businesses, like the sound of promises, like
:17:22. > :17:28.those on business rates. And taking on vested interests, backs, or the
:17:29. > :17:32.big six, not bakery, of course, has political appeal. What is helpful,
:17:33. > :17:35.but just as awkward as this photo opportunity, Ed Balls is more
:17:36. > :17:41.welcome in some boardrooms than his boss. One of the country's biggest
:17:42. > :17:46.investors told me, Balls is good, Ed not really known. Business likes
:17:47. > :17:51.planning, not being sure what Labour will do next is a real concern.
:17:52. > :17:54.They need reassuring about what Labour's intentions are, whether
:17:55. > :18:03.Labour has a positive vision about banking and the role banks can play
:18:04. > :18:07.in the economy and society, and they need reassurance. There is more than
:18:08. > :18:11.competition over gags in a speech between these two. But they both
:18:12. > :18:16.know re-establishing economic credibility has to be done. No-one
:18:17. > :18:21.would expect Labour and the corporate world to agree on
:18:22. > :18:26.everything. But there is a sense of vital trust that is missing, and one
:18:27. > :18:33.source described the real danger as the inability to have a rational
:18:34. > :18:37.debate. And being too close to business can burn, so Labour must
:18:38. > :18:47.balance what it believes, what will work for the economy if it wins, and
:18:48. > :18:50.what it says to get there. Labour Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls
:18:51. > :18:54.is here. You keep insisting you are pro-business, and yet clearly you
:18:55. > :18:58.have yet to convince the City? The City? The business world in general?
:18:59. > :19:02.I think the City needs to change. And we know that our banks node
:19:03. > :19:05.knead to change, there has been tougher regulation. I think banks
:19:06. > :19:11.are really important in the economy, they lend to people, they give
:19:12. > :19:15.people their mortgages, but they know they have got things wrong in
:19:16. > :19:21.the last decade and it needs to change. We will come on to banks,
:19:22. > :19:26.let's look at business leaders, the tax policies predatory, Digby Jones,
:19:27. > :19:30.the view about Labour is if it creates wealth kick it, the Centrica
:19:31. > :19:34.boss. We have all sorts of different people saying that the policies you
:19:35. > :19:39.espouse are not policies that are business-friendly? Tomorrow we have
:19:40. > :19:42.a conference at the science museum, we have hundreds of people coming,
:19:43. > :19:46.many people from business on the platform. We are talking about the
:19:47. > :19:55.Jaguar review of industrial policy, which is about innovation and tax,
:19:56. > :20:00.to Lord Adonis's review to devolve power down to business. Our tax plan
:20:01. > :20:06.to keep corporation tax rates low as we tackle tax avoidance, and John
:20:07. > :20:10.Armi it's review which says let's have a long-term commission to get
:20:11. > :20:14.the structure we need. These are pro-business and pro-wealth creation
:20:15. > :20:18.policies, and we will discuss them with business and people across the
:20:19. > :20:22.economy. It will be a good Kay. Let's look at corporation tax, it is
:20:23. > :20:26.very possible, you already announced on Monday, it is possible you will
:20:27. > :20:30.raise corporation tax isn't it? I have said we have supported the cuts
:20:31. > :20:37.in corporation tax from 33p down to 21p. I want to leap the lowest level
:20:38. > :20:41.of corporation tax in the G7. George Osborne wants another cut in
:20:42. > :20:46.corporation tax, we wouldn't do that, we would use the money to cut
:20:47. > :20:49.business rates for 1. 5 million small and medium-sized businesses.
:20:50. > :20:55.It is a different choice to George Osborne, it is a business and wealth
:20:56. > :20:59.creation choice, it has to go along with tackling tax avoidance so
:21:00. > :21:05.companies pay their fair share of tax. If you want to be the least,
:21:06. > :21:11.the next up is Canada, 26. 3p on corporation tax. So actually you
:21:12. > :21:16.have got from 21-26 going. You are not ruling out raising corporation
:21:17. > :21:20.tax if you feel you have to? We have supported cuts down to 21p. We
:21:21. > :21:26.thought the next cut to 20p was the wrong thing to. Do I also said let's
:21:27. > :21:30.have a long-term incentive for equity investment and look at
:21:31. > :21:34.capital gains tax for long-termism. You are not ruling out a raise in
:21:35. > :21:40.corporation tax if you feel it is the right thing to do. From 21 up to
:21:41. > :21:45.26p? I won't write a budget today, I want the least level of corporation
:21:46. > :21:51.tax in the G7, we have supported the cuts down to 21p. I'm not going back
:21:52. > :21:56.on. That we think 20p is not the priority when we can help small and
:21:57. > :21:59.medium-sized enterprises. It is not the same of George Osborne but about
:22:00. > :22:02.fairer competition and small businesses don't feel they are
:22:03. > :22:08.getting a good deal. Business would like to know this, it could go up,
:22:09. > :22:15.yes or no? I'm not planning any rise in corporation tax, I want to keep
:22:16. > :22:22.them at low and commemorative level, I -- good level. We will cut tax for
:22:23. > :22:26.small and medium-sized companies. Raising it to 26 is not the argument
:22:27. > :22:31.I'm making. You are not making an argument for not doing it. The
:22:32. > :22:36.unsoonerity for business leaders, it is not just them, look at Peter
:22:37. > :22:39.Mandelson? Hang on, in your film you just said we were not pro-business,
:22:40. > :22:42.I'm saying to you we are pro-business and we want to keep the
:22:43. > :22:56.corporation tax rate at the lowest in the G7, that is a pro-business
:22:57. > :23:00.thing to say? It doesn't come across that you are pro-business. Peter
:23:01. > :23:03.Mandelson said even if Labour doesn't want to harm business, it
:23:04. > :23:07.isn't sufficiently clear, and it needs to be sorted out and this
:23:08. > :23:10.year. Are these words ring anything your ears? We have a business
:23:11. > :23:13.conference tomorrow, we are discussing with business what we can
:23:14. > :23:17.do to make our economy work in a stronger and fairer way for the
:23:18. > :23:20.future. The reality is, and business knows this too, the European
:23:21. > :23:23.elections tell us people's living standards are falling month on
:23:24. > :23:27.month. David Cameron and George Osborne say the plan is working, it
:23:28. > :23:32.is not for most people. Do you bury your head in the sand, do you give
:23:33. > :23:36.into protectionism or make the case for open economics, a pro-business
:23:37. > :23:40.policy and change and fairness. That is the argument we will make. That
:23:41. > :23:44.will strike a chord with business, compared to a Conservative Party
:23:45. > :23:48.which is running scared of the sceptics. If this is the run up to
:23:49. > :23:52.the election and your last chance to put a case forward. Do you think
:23:53. > :23:59.Peter Mandelson is right, even if you are pro-business it doesn't
:24:00. > :24:01.sound TLIEK? That is aed auto-- like that, that is a big ally? Peter
:24:02. > :24:06.Mandelson is coming to the conference tomorrow. We have the
:24:07. > :24:11.Chair of Standard Chartered, people from business Lewis, people from
:24:12. > :24:14.Labour, business people, and from Jaguar, all talking about the
:24:15. > :24:18.long-term policies we need to make sure we get the investment and the
:24:19. > :24:24.rising living standards we need for our country. They are not getting
:24:25. > :24:28.them from David Cameron and George Osborne who are blighting business
:24:29. > :24:34.prospects by threatening to leave the European Union. That is the most
:24:35. > :24:37.anti-business thing can you do. Interesting talking about that, the
:24:38. > :24:41.head of Unite says actually you should be offering an in-out
:24:42. > :24:48.referendum on Europe at the same time, because if you don't there is
:24:49. > :24:52.a problem, is he wrong? He doesn't make the policy of the Labour Party.
:24:53. > :24:57.I disagree with him. That is not the policy at all. There is no question
:24:58. > :25:03.that an in coming Labour Government would ever offer an in-out
:25:04. > :25:09.referendum on Europe. You are at odds with Unite? We made a
:25:10. > :25:12.commitment if there is a proposal of transfer of powers to Brussels we
:25:13. > :25:15.will have a referendum in those circumstance, we are not proposing a
:25:16. > :25:18.referendum now. We think to spend two or three years blighting
:25:19. > :25:22.investment and underlining our economy, on the prospect of a
:25:23. > :25:26.referendum, which David Cameron says he's going to have after he gets an
:25:27. > :25:38.unknown package of reforms, it would be bad for jobs and investment. If
:25:39. > :25:41.Len McClusky is supporting that I don't support him. Talking to
:25:42. > :25:46.business leaders, this is part of the problem, talking about predatory
:25:47. > :25:53.capitalism as opposed to producer capitalism. Should you use this type
:25:54. > :26:00.of language, it stank of old Labour. We had a story last week about Wonga
:26:01. > :26:03.the loan company, sending false lawyers letters, threatening people,
:26:04. > :26:07.and then having to admit it is a terrible thing and paying huge
:26:08. > :26:11.compensation. I would call that pretty predatory behaviour. Pretty
:26:12. > :26:20.despicable. Is that phrase you came up with? It was a speech by Ed
:26:21. > :26:26.Miliband at our conference. He said people who try to cartelise, I would
:26:27. > :26:33.call that pretty predatory. Let's look at a policy you are putting
:26:34. > :26:36.forward which is to cap the high treat banks, that smacks of
:26:37. > :26:41.intervention? At the moment the banks are hugely concentrated. There
:26:42. > :26:47.is a huge concentration in small business and personal account
:26:48. > :26:52.lending, that is not my review, it was a review that reported three
:26:53. > :26:55.years a we said we would ask the competition authority to review the
:26:56. > :27:00.market, when we come in to see how to get more competition into the
:27:01. > :27:06.high street lending. But you will cap the market share? We asked them
:27:07. > :27:12.to look at whether there is a place for setting... It leads to status
:27:13. > :27:17.policies. It happens when you have prop competition. We are asking the
:27:18. > :27:22.independent authorities, a particular percentage if a bank goes
:27:23. > :27:25.higher than that, it would trigger a market investigation to see if it is
:27:26. > :27:30.causing a problem and whether action should be taken. Wouldn't call that
:27:31. > :27:34.old Labour or anti-business, I think that a pro-market, pro-competition
:27:35. > :27:38.policy is good for consumers and good for small business, and good
:27:39. > :27:42.for large businesses too. Did you talk to your old boss Gordon
:27:43. > :27:47.Brown about this? About this policy idea and capping the market share of
:27:48. > :27:50.high street banks? I think Gordon Brown was the person who got the
:27:51. > :27:55.competition authorities to look at competition the beginning of the
:27:56. > :27:59.last decade, but the action didn't follow. Did you hear from the film
:28:00. > :28:03.that business leaders rate you but not Ed Miliband, how does it make
:28:04. > :28:07.you feel? I think Ed Miliband has led the debate that there is a cost
:28:08. > :28:11.of living crisis. If we want to maintain Britain as an open,
:28:12. > :28:16.internationalist, wealth-creating economy, we have to show it works in
:28:17. > :28:20.fair way for all and not just some. For the whole country, every region
:28:21. > :28:24.but also the families who at the moment don't feel they get a fair
:28:25. > :28:28.deal. He's right about that. He's saying in his speech tomorrow that
:28:29. > :28:35.is about working with business to create jobs and to do so fairly. In
:28:36. > :28:42.the Telegraph there are words supposedly spoken by John Cruddas,
:28:43. > :28:46.he's saying that Ed Miliband is gamed out every day every week, and
:28:47. > :28:51.what is your response to that and the fact that he said that? I have
:28:52. > :28:56.no idea what that means, gamed out? If you want to know who at the
:28:57. > :29:01.moment who is being gamed out, is a British Prime Minister, David
:29:02. > :29:06.Cameron, being utterly outmanoeuvred by European partners as he trys to
:29:07. > :29:12.take help euro-sceptic, he wanted to take us down an anti-wealth creation
:29:13. > :29:17.and European road. Many business people at our conference tomorrow
:29:18. > :29:22.will be keen to talk to Labour. The Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri
:29:23. > :29:27.Al-Maliki, has offered an amnesty to militants willing to return to their
:29:28. > :29:32.census and abandon ISIS, threatening to tear the country apart. The
:29:33. > :29:37.rebels hold a vast amount of territory, fighter jets thought to
:29:38. > :29:46.be Iranian landed in Baghdad as the Iraqi military struggles to fight
:29:47. > :29:49.back. What about the idea of an amnesty that President Nouri
:29:50. > :29:55.Al-Maliki announced, what is the response to that? He's clearly
:29:56. > :30:00.trying to drive a wedge into this Sunni alliance in vast swathe of
:30:01. > :30:05.territory they have captured in a month, it is not just ISIS, they
:30:06. > :30:12.have had support from Sunni tribal elders and their followers, and also
:30:13. > :30:16.ex-ba'athist officers. What Nouri Al-Maliki is trying to do is peel
:30:17. > :30:21.off the latter two to weaken ISIS. We know there have been clashes and
:30:22. > :30:28.confrontations between these two sides in recent days. We know that
:30:29. > :30:33.some were unhappy with ISIS's declaration of a Muslim Kalaphate.
:30:34. > :30:37.We know they have been telling local Iraqis to put down their weapons,
:30:38. > :30:41.that ISIS are the only people allowed to bear arms. We know they
:30:42. > :30:47.are not happy about that. But my colleagues up in the semiautonomous
:30:48. > :30:52.Kurdish region in the north, where some of these representatives are,
:30:53. > :30:58.has been speaking to a spokesperson for them. At the moment they are
:30:59. > :31:05.still trying to piece together a common goal which they say is the
:31:06. > :31:08.overthrow of the Iraqi Government of Nouri Al-Maliki.
:31:09. > :31:12.We have heard from William Hague and John Kerry that they see a political
:31:13. > :31:17.solution to the crisi. At the moment we have got political stalemate,
:31:18. > :31:21.Nouri Al-Maliki is trying to form a Government, yesterday they convened
:31:22. > :31:25.and it broke up in less than two hours and we are no further.
:31:26. > :31:31.Meanwhile the fighting is going on, and there is a growing realisation
:31:32. > :31:38.that you may be able to talk to the Sunni tribes and the ba'athist, but
:31:39. > :31:42.you can't talk toment ISIS, and -- talk toies circumstance but when you
:31:43. > :31:46.come to them it has to be a military solution.
:31:47. > :31:53.What about the warplanes that came to Baghdad? We saw them flying over
:31:54. > :31:57.here three of them. The experts say they are Russian aircraft that may
:31:58. > :32:02.have originally been Iraqi before the first Gulf War but ended up in
:32:03. > :32:09.Iran, they are coming back. That raises the question, who is flying
:32:10. > :32:15.them, are they piloted by Iranians or not. It raises the prospect of
:32:16. > :32:20.two lots of aircraft flying over Iraq, American and Iranians, both on
:32:21. > :32:24.the same side defending the same Government against ISIS. Something
:32:25. > :32:27.that would have been unthinkable a short time ago. Clearly the Iraqi
:32:28. > :32:32.military is struggling and on the ground that struggling is
:32:33. > :32:35.manifesting itself in the proliferation of Shi'ite militia
:32:36. > :32:39.groups. They have been forming here in Baghdad. I have been spending
:32:40. > :32:52.time talking to them over the past few days.
:32:53. > :32:58.Ramadan has started, it is a time of prayer, a time of fasting. But
:32:59. > :33:02.behind the quiet facade, a mobilisation is taking place. On the
:33:03. > :33:10.streets, the sense of calm is deceptive. Over the past few days we
:33:11. > :33:20.have been invited to meetings at houses on residential back streets.
:33:21. > :33:26.There is some kind of gathering of the clans here going on. Inside
:33:27. > :33:34.local tribal chiefs have gathered for a summit with a Shia militia
:33:35. > :33:37.group. They are one of several sending fighters up to the
:33:38. > :33:47.frontlines to bolster the Iraqi security forces battling ISIS. This
:33:48. > :33:52.commander says they are thirsty to fight, and said until recently they
:33:53. > :34:02.were in Syria defending a shrine. But they returned to Iraq in
:34:03. > :34:08.response to a call to arms by the Ayatolla, the country's most senior
:34:09. > :34:17.Cher Rick. TRANSLATION: We are a professional and pious group. ISIS
:34:18. > :34:23.are terrorists, Wahabists from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey. Some
:34:24. > :34:28.people in certain areas in Baghdad have said they are very worried
:34:29. > :34:34.about the reassurance of militia on the street. What do you say to those
:34:35. > :34:40.who fear another sectarian war? TRANSLATION: The unanies and Shia
:34:41. > :34:46.are brothers, we are the same both and share the same responsibility.
:34:47. > :34:50.We asked the USA and Britain, all the great powers to help Iraq fight
:34:51. > :34:59.terrorism. These people are extremists trying to wipe out
:35:00. > :35:03.civilisation. On the eve of Ramadan the fighters gather for a final
:35:04. > :35:11.midday meal. Some of the militia men are clerics, this commander in the
:35:12. > :35:17.white turban is an Iman. Despite the talk of brotherhood, there is no
:35:18. > :35:20.mistaking the sectarian overtones of the conflict.
:35:21. > :35:24.There is a whole proliferation of the Shi'ite militias in Baghdad,
:35:25. > :35:31.this lot allied with the Government and working together with the Iraqi
:35:32. > :35:37.security forces, others are completely independent oar
:35:38. > :35:43.completely funded by the Iranians. ISIS control is to the north and
:35:44. > :35:47.west of here, but there are very realistic fears there could be
:35:48. > :35:54.infiltrators here in Baghdad. The militias are deployed at checkpoints
:35:55. > :35:58.throughout the city. In another quiet district we meet the spokesman
:35:59. > :36:02.for Hezbollah, they say they are not related to the Lebanese group of the
:36:03. > :36:09.same name, but they are thought to have close ties to Iran.
:36:10. > :36:14.TRANSLATION: Everyone wants to know if we are supported or not by Iran.
:36:15. > :36:18.Well Arabic countries, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and America, they are
:36:19. > :36:25.supporting terrorism in Iraq with weapons and money. Er Obama has
:36:26. > :36:28.asked for money to support the Syrian opposition. We are asking all
:36:29. > :36:33.countries to support us politically and militarily. Iran is part of
:36:34. > :36:41.that. Iran has proven it doesn't abandon its allies. Look at Syria.
:36:42. > :36:44.He says his group doesn't receive direct funding or weapons from Iran.
:36:45. > :36:54.But they are not hiding their affiliation. On the hall portraits
:36:55. > :37:01.of the leaders. TRANSLATION: No different from having a poster of
:37:02. > :37:07.Nelson Mandela or Che Gurvara, he tells me. In other cities militia
:37:08. > :37:14.groups are deployed to project mosque STLIENs. It was the bombing
:37:15. > :37:19.of a holy site that ignited a sectarian Civil War, mortars arrived
:37:20. > :37:24.there last night, another large scale attack could have catastrophic
:37:25. > :37:31.consequences. . As the sun loses some of its scourging intensity, the
:37:32. > :37:34.tribal chiefs gather in the relative school of the evening. They talk
:37:35. > :37:44.about a coming together of all Iraqis, Sunni, Shia and Kurd. But
:37:45. > :37:50.the Sheikhs are here to pledge support for a militia. The Iman
:37:51. > :37:59.turned fighter talks about victory in battle, of enemies killed and
:38:00. > :38:09.captured. Iraq is being sucked into a wider regional and sectarian war.
:38:10. > :38:17.They sing that they are vengeful people and they demand revenge.
:38:18. > :38:21.Burials at sea are part of the sea faring tradition and folklore, they
:38:22. > :38:24.have become much less common but open to everyone. In the UK there
:38:25. > :38:28.are about ten a year, most taking place off the Isle of Wight. But the
:38:29. > :38:32.coroner there have raised concerns that bodies and body parts, often
:38:33. > :38:37.washed up on the island, might be from the burial ceremonies.
:38:38. > :38:43.Investigations into the identities of the deceased are costing
:38:44. > :38:50.thousands of pounds. And there is thoughts of DNA records for those
:38:51. > :38:55.buried at sea. Every now and then a beach-goer on
:38:56. > :39:01.the Isle of Wight gets a little more than they bargained for. Over the
:39:02. > :39:05.years numerous bodies and body parts have washed up on the shores of the
:39:06. > :39:15.island. Puzzling many, including the coroner here. This is the on-line
:39:16. > :39:19.editor at the Isle of Wight County Press, he has reported on many of
:39:20. > :39:22.the discoveries. We have examples from the last ten years, but
:39:23. > :39:28.stemming back further than that. Going back decades where coroners
:39:29. > :39:37.have to deal with it. This case from 2005 is the biggest of this kind. It
:39:38. > :39:42.was found by a beach comber and discovers a body entirely naked
:39:43. > :39:46.except for its socks. Leaving police and investigators mystified as to
:39:47. > :39:50.where the body had come from, and the circumstances that had led to it
:39:51. > :39:55.being discovered in the beach. In this case, just like many others,
:39:56. > :40:06.the coroner speculated that the body had come from a burial at sea. But
:40:07. > :40:11.could that really happen? Just south of the needles is where
:40:12. > :40:25.almost all of the UK burials take place. Newsnight has been given
:40:26. > :40:31.exclusive access to one such burial. This is John Lister and he has
:40:32. > :40:35.conducted 60 terms here. When the deceased comes into our cautious we
:40:36. > :40:42.normally try to get out to sea at the first available opportunity.
:40:43. > :40:46.There is an area 2. 5 miles south of the Needles that is dreamed as being
:40:47. > :40:52.the most suitable part on the south coast for a burial at sea. It is
:40:53. > :41:00.unaffected by tides, fishing, tredging and trawling. As we reached
:41:01. > :41:06.the area, we often played music there. Often it is the case we will
:41:07. > :41:14.play Elgar's Nimrod. We are overlooked by the monument to tennis
:41:15. > :41:23.son -- Tennison, we will read his Crossing the Bar. But "But such a
:41:24. > :41:28.tide as moving seems asleep, too full for sound and foam, when that
:41:29. > :41:38.which drew from out the boundless keep, turns again home." Then there
:41:39. > :41:51.is the committal itself. Which is over in the blink of an eye. Then
:41:52. > :41:58.the mourners might like to put some flowers on the surface of the water.
:41:59. > :42:02.The vessel then, or the both will do a 360 did he greet circuit around
:42:03. > :42:10.the point of committal and the flowers. And then we will propose a
:42:11. > :42:17.toast. John is passionate about burials at sea and insists that the
:42:18. > :42:24.processes in place means it is impossible for bodies to break free
:42:25. > :42:30.once they are committed. Within the coffin is a mesh cage, that is then
:42:31. > :42:40.attached to concrete, the concrete weights. There are go-inch holes in
:42:41. > :42:49.the Mesh to allow a certain amount of marine life in. That is why it is
:42:50. > :42:56.feasible that any large body part would escape from a burial at se If
:42:57. > :43:00.it is done properly. Yes. But the assurances haven't convinced the
:43:01. > :43:06.coroner here who has linked some of the bodies washed up to burials at
:43:07. > :43:11.sea. Despite the lack of evidence in several cases. In this case the
:43:12. > :43:16.corpse was so decomposed, some thought it was the body of Lord
:43:17. > :43:21.Lucan. The evidence is weak, you could be looking for a sea burial or
:43:22. > :43:26.a murder where a body has been disposed of at sea. Tossed
:43:27. > :43:36.overboard. And is just left to the tides. The problem is it is very
:43:37. > :43:40.difficult to identify a heavily decomposed body. If you don't know
:43:41. > :43:45.who it was how do you know where they came from, and how do you know
:43:46. > :43:48.if they were butteried at sea -- buried at sea. I have asked the
:43:49. > :43:53.coroner for an interview, they have refused to talk to me. I have
:43:54. > :43:57.requested files on relevant cases but once again the answer was no. It
:43:58. > :44:05.takes it very difficult to know what is really going on here. It is
:44:06. > :44:09.because of the uncertainty around what exactly is being found on the
:44:10. > :44:13.coast of the Isle of Wight, that the Home Office is considering bringing
:44:14. > :44:18.in mand drew DNA tests for anyone being buried at sea.
:44:19. > :44:24.The hope is that if introduced it will end the controversy and
:44:25. > :44:29.speculation. I welcome it, it can only be good. If some funeral
:44:30. > :44:35.directors do cut corners and if there is any truth in what you say
:44:36. > :44:41.then you know DNA testing will make them pull their socks up. It now
:44:42. > :44:47.looks likely that a decision will be made in the autumn. And if DNA tests
:44:48. > :44:52.are given the go-ahead, perhaps we will finally get an answer to what
:44:53. > :44:53.is turning up on the island's shores.
:44:54. > :45:43.Now the front pages: ??FORCEDWHIT That's just about all
:45:44. > :45:54.tonight, when it comes to apologies, we don't expect a great deal from
:45:55. > :45:59.politicians, the minute mum minute yum amount of minutes.
:46:00. > :46:03.But in Japan, this man has become an internet hit for taking excuses to a
:46:04. > :46:10.whole new level as he tried to explain away his use of public funds
:46:11. > :46:22.in seconds not hours, Westminster take note!
:46:23. > :46:34.# Have mercy # Have mercy baby
:46:35. > :46:58.# Have mercy # Have mercy
:46:59. > :47:05.The best of the sunshine for Thursday certainly the further south
:47:06. > :47:08.and east you go. A band of cloud and the odd spot or two of rain sits
:47:09. > :47:09.across northern England and