:00:00. > :00:08.Britain is not going to be getting involved in another war in iraq,
:00:09. > :00:12.we're not putting boots on the ground.
:00:13. > :00:15.But is the line between what we will and won't do shifting every day?
:00:16. > :00:22.Despite what David Cameron says, are we back on the road to Iraq?
:00:23. > :00:25.Tomorrow the Government is ramping up its riots-inspired programme to
:00:26. > :00:31.It wants to "turn around" another 400,000 of them, but is the
:00:32. > :00:33.Government expanding a programme without proof that it works?
:00:34. > :00:39.The National Guard is on the streets of Ferguson Missouri.
:00:40. > :00:41.Is this a divide that can ever be healed?
:00:42. > :00:46.We'll ask the American philosopher Cornell West.
:00:47. > :00:53.Hail the conquering heroes. I will ask Maggie Alphonsi, from the
:00:54. > :00:55.triumphant England's women's rugby team if it's time they turned pro
:00:56. > :01:07.like the men. Good evening. David Cameron has
:01:08. > :01:11.spoken in the most vehement terms about the crisis in Iraq saying that
:01:12. > :01:15.we are in the middle of a generational struggle against a
:01:16. > :01:22.poisonous and extremist ideology. If IS is not stopped they could push to
:01:23. > :01:26.the Mediterranean and to Turkey. That apocalyptic vision does not
:01:27. > :01:29.appear to be matched by a vision of what British military forces should
:01:30. > :01:33.do. The Defence Secretary indicated that the role of the British
:01:34. > :01:37.military had moved beyond a humanitarian task, but to what? Is
:01:38. > :01:47.the Prime Minister acting decisively or re-acting day by day? British
:01:48. > :01:52.lives and reputations were lost in Iraq. David Cameron won't be the one
:01:53. > :01:56.to argue for another military intervention, but our response is
:01:57. > :02:00.now much more than helping save lives in danger. The Prime
:02:01. > :02:05.Minister's adamant it doesn't mean troops. Britain is not going to get
:02:06. > :02:09.involved in another war in Iraq. We're not going to be putting boots
:02:10. > :02:13.on the ground. Wire not going to be sending in -- we're not going to be
:02:14. > :02:19.sending in the British Armiment we should -- army. We should use our
:02:20. > :02:24.diplomacy, the military prowess and expertise we have to help others, we
:02:25. > :02:28.should use these things as part of a strategy to put pressure on Islamic
:02:29. > :02:34.State and make sure this terrorist organisation is properly addressed.
:02:35. > :02:40.Note, he said: We will use our military prowess. Curdish fighters
:02:41. > :02:48.have been fighting with extremists at the Mosul dam. Control of vital
:02:49. > :02:54.power and water, they claim now back in their hands. In turn, our fighter
:02:55. > :03:01.jets have been flying to provide intelligence to the Americans.
:03:02. > :03:04.Neither the Ministry of Defence nor the rest of the Government is
:03:05. > :03:09.staying out of it. UK warplanes are already flying over parts of Iraq.
:03:10. > :03:15.We've offered to give weapons to curds in the north -- Kurds in the
:03:16. > :03:22.north. Special forces are thought to be in the country already. The
:03:23. > :03:27.Kurdish leadership has told visiting British MPs they want help with
:03:28. > :03:32.training their troops. When you hear this description of the frontline,
:03:33. > :03:35.it's clear why. One division would work for one party. Another for
:03:36. > :03:39.another political party. Division would be part of the intelligence
:03:40. > :03:43.department, another one would be part of the police force. One is
:03:44. > :03:48.Special Forces. Those divisions are not coordinating. That's been part
:03:49. > :03:52.of the problem. Part this afternoon coordination -- part of that
:03:53. > :03:57.coordination and training of the Army is certainly in what I would
:03:58. > :04:00.say, in the medium and longer term, absolutely required. Training
:04:01. > :04:07.moderates to take on the horror of Islamic State has not been discussed
:04:08. > :04:11.by Number Ten yet. Sources deny there's been a shift in their wider
:04:12. > :04:15.position. They say Britain will deal with these extremists and their
:04:16. > :04:21.terrible ambitions, not with direct combat, instead, what they describe
:04:22. > :04:25.as an approach that's primarily humanitarian with military
:04:26. > :04:33.assistance. Could that also be known as keeping their options open? In
:04:34. > :04:37.using humanitarian assistance to justify Britain's early involvement
:04:38. > :04:40.when it was clear in a war zone, any humanitarian action always entails
:04:41. > :04:44.the possibility of combat, first, and second, that the threat poled by
:04:45. > :04:49.ISIS, a threat that the Prime Minister himself had been
:04:50. > :04:59.undercorpsing for many months was more than a humanitarian issue --
:05:00. > :05:02.underscoring. The Prime Minister believes British Governments will
:05:03. > :05:07.have to deal with Islamic State for generations. Although his foreign
:05:08. > :05:14.policy ambitions have already been held back by history. This time last
:05:15. > :05:18.year, defence planners were considering different but direct
:05:19. > :05:21.action. The Prime Minister argued for intervention against President
:05:22. > :05:27.Assad. He lost the vote that would have backed it in the Mondays. At
:05:28. > :05:30.that -- in the Commons. At that moment, foreign policy, in part
:05:31. > :05:36.because of the shadow of what happened in Iraq ten years before. A
:05:37. > :05:39.shadow that perhaps looms larger now. Tonight David Cameron made
:05:40. > :05:43.phone calls to leaders around the Middle East, trying to confront
:05:44. > :05:50.together a more brutal enemy with regional ambition. While the
:05:51. > :05:54.problems presented by Islamic State are more and more acute, the
:05:55. > :05:59.political traps at home of taking action are just as wide.
:06:00. > :06:02.Here with me now are Fraser Nelson, Editor of the Spectator, and
:06:03. > :06:15.First of all, Laura alluded to the shadow of Iraq and the shadow of
:06:16. > :06:18.Syria, do you get the sense that David Cameron is at sea over exactly
:06:19. > :06:23.how to approach this? I think if there's a tension between his
:06:24. > :06:28.instincts, he's talking in Churchillian terms of a generational
:06:29. > :06:32.struggle to defeat ISIS, but not militarily, we're not sending in the
:06:33. > :06:37.Army. Anybody will think - which is it? We saw him saying we're not
:06:38. > :06:42.going to get involved in another Iraq war. This afternoon he sent a
:06:43. > :06:46.geoforce out there. And it's quite a terrifying thought, this idea that
:06:47. > :06:51.we're facing this for a exwren rags -- generation. He marches up to the
:06:52. > :06:55.top of the hill, but there isn't any clamour for debate. MPs don't
:06:56. > :06:58.actually know what they'll be debating. That's right. It's
:06:59. > :07:02.disappointing there isn't more clamour. British foreign policy
:07:03. > :07:06.achanging before our eyes here. If Parliament can be recalled to
:07:07. > :07:09.express condolences on the Queen mum's death, then you can discuss
:07:10. > :07:14.something as big as this. Should Parliament be recalled? Not quite
:07:15. > :07:17.yet. Not yet? We haven't actually taken any military action. As soon
:07:18. > :07:21.as we start thinking about military action, yes. But we're doing
:07:22. > :07:25.humanitarian action at the moment. But, at the weekend, the Defence
:07:26. > :07:31.Secretary said it wasn't just humanitarian He's talking action.
:07:32. > :07:34.About arming the Peshmerga. I don't see a great requirement for
:07:35. > :07:39.Parliament here. It may well be, but not quite yet. You see, I agree with
:07:40. > :07:43.Fraser up to a point. I don't agree that we know exactly what's
:07:44. > :07:50.happening. If you're going to have a strategy, you've got to have
:07:51. > :07:55.something to rat Is on. We -- strategis E.On. At what point do you
:07:56. > :07:59.make a decision on whether or not you will take military action along
:08:00. > :08:04.with the Americans? You don't know that point. You speak from
:08:05. > :08:07.experience. My experience is, look, I went sent to Bosnia. I didn't even
:08:08. > :08:13.have a mission for three months. There was no strategy or end game.
:08:14. > :08:18.Is there Is that a good way to carry on? We know that civilians are being
:08:19. > :08:23.attacked. Does it not make us look incredibly weak that we seem to be
:08:24. > :08:28.didge snerg It's a very odd thing to do, to rule out, for example, any
:08:29. > :08:33.serious military involvement and at the same time, say to I serve, we
:08:34. > :08:36.hate -- to IS, we hate you, we're out to get you. The Prime Minister
:08:37. > :08:43.may come to regret ruling these things out. Is he boxing himself
:08:44. > :08:47.Retorically yes in? . In fairness, the Prime Minister is saying what
:08:48. > :08:53.everyone feels at the moment. He doesn't want to put, as he says,
:08:54. > :08:55.boots on the ground. If circumstances change, and our
:08:56. > :09:01.country is threatened by these people... He seems to suggest that
:09:02. > :09:04.Britain is being threatened. Threatened on the borders of knave
:09:05. > :09:08.toe, being threatened here if IS fighters come here for terrorism.
:09:09. > :09:13.That's in prospect. It's not there yet. I think that in the end, the
:09:14. > :09:17.Prime Minister will have to make a decision in the national interest.
:09:18. > :09:22.The national interest, fundamentally is the defence of our country. Yes,
:09:23. > :09:27.but then what you might have is a situation like 7/7. Only when
:09:28. > :09:31.something like that happens do we galvanise ourselves into action for
:09:32. > :09:35.what is happening abroad. The public aren't prepared to do very much.
:09:36. > :09:40.There'll be a hell of a row if we suddenly started talking about
:09:41. > :09:44.military forces into northern Iraq. The public aren't up for it. Is that
:09:45. > :09:49.because Iraq was such a mistake? Yes. My constituents are contacting
:09:50. > :09:54.me and they're saying, we've got to do more than humanitarian aid. I
:09:55. > :09:58.say, what would you mean by that? You imply military action and then
:09:59. > :10:03.there's silence. If you talk about IS as the Prime Minister does, as
:10:04. > :10:06.being on the shores of the Mediterranean, spilling into Syria,
:10:07. > :10:12.you really think the Iraqi Army can take them on? The Iraqi Army, no.
:10:13. > :10:17.They're basically a rabble at the moment. The Kurdish forces are more
:10:18. > :10:22.efficient. It's funny that Kurds who we regarded as terrorists recently
:10:23. > :10:27.are now fighting with the American p air cover -- American air cover. War
:10:28. > :10:33.can quickly change allegiances. Right now, we've got to work out -
:10:34. > :10:37.do we support an independent Kurdistan. Yes, and break what
:10:38. > :10:44.Barack Obama keeps talking about as a united Iraq. Yes, but even tonight
:10:45. > :10:48.Barack Obama was thanking Iraqi and Kurdish forces, even getting into
:10:49. > :10:52.the swing of things. Are our enemies going to become our friends? Are we
:10:53. > :10:58.going to need President Assad, are we even going to need the Iranians?
:10:59. > :11:02.The answer is inevitably, they will. That's what happens in real life.
:11:03. > :11:07.Enemies become friends. Friends become enemies. I'm afraid that's
:11:08. > :11:12.politics. In the Middle East, it's most certainly the case. What are
:11:13. > :11:15.other of your military, former military compatriots telling you
:11:16. > :11:19.about this and discussing, what is their view? I haven't really talked
:11:20. > :11:25.to many people. I've been in France for two weeks. The fact is speaking
:11:26. > :11:30.from my own position, and my own experience, the one thing I disagree
:11:31. > :11:34.with is people saying we should have an end game, we should have a
:11:35. > :11:38.strategy now. We can't. Things are moving far too fast. The Prime
:11:39. > :11:44.Minister, quite rightly, is doing his best to deal with each day as it
:11:45. > :11:48.comes. When we have something more stable to think about a strategy,
:11:49. > :11:49.when the situation stabilises, then perhaps a strategy will Thank you
:11:50. > :11:54.come. Both very much. "Off the barometer" that's the
:11:55. > :11:56.description of the problems of many of the troubled families
:11:57. > :12:00.in the UK given by the boss of the Government programme dedicated
:12:01. > :12:02.to them - families who are chaotic, drug-abusing jobless,
:12:03. > :12:04.have mental health issues, The Prime Minister emphasised that
:12:05. > :12:16.families are the bedrock of society. and that dovetails with tomorrow's
:12:17. > :12:21.announcement that the Government will ramp up the
:12:22. > :12:24.Troubled Families Programme from 120,000 families to around half a
:12:25. > :12:26.million, pointing to a success story for 53,000 families who have been,
:12:27. > :12:40.the phrase is "turned around". In the aftermath of the 2011 riots,
:12:41. > :12:46.David Cameron came up with a ?400 million policy to deal with 120,000
:12:47. > :12:52.trouble-making families. Official Dom might call them families with
:12:53. > :12:54.multiple disadvantages. Some in the press might call them neighbours
:12:55. > :12:58.from hell. Whatever you call them, we've known for years that a
:12:59. > :13:05.relatively small number of families are the source of a large proportion
:13:06. > :13:09.of problems in our society. As the Prime Minister said in a speech
:13:10. > :13:14.today, that programme to tackle them, the so-called troubled
:13:15. > :13:19.families scheme, will take in a further 400,000 families during the
:13:20. > :13:24.next Parliament. The philosophy of the Troubled Families Programme is
:13:25. > :13:33.that a stitch in time saves nine. Central Government has asked local
:13:34. > :13:37.authorities about families with a high propensity for truancy and
:13:38. > :13:43.worklessness. By focussing resources there, we can solve a lot of
:13:44. > :13:47.problems all at once. We established the family recovery programme
:13:48. > :13:50.incorporating our Troubled Families Programme which brought a number of
:13:51. > :14:02.services together, such as mental health, the police, housing, health,
:14:03. > :14:07.domestic violence and a few more, substance issues, there are a range
:14:08. > :14:15.of specialists that can offer multiple services and multiple
:14:16. > :14:18.interventions for our families. There were 120,000 scheme families
:14:19. > :14:23.are certainly poor and have social problems, for example, 74% of them
:14:24. > :14:28.had no-one in work. 42% had been visited by the police in the
:14:29. > :14:32.previous six months. 29% were suspected of domestic violence.
:14:33. > :14:38.There are oddities about the programme. For example, why 120,000
:14:39. > :14:45.families? The 120,000 figure is essentially made up. It originally
:14:46. > :14:48.comes from a figure of the number of families in severe deprivation, not
:14:49. > :14:52.families that welcome back troubled, but deprived families. It's been
:14:53. > :15:01.wrenched out of context and used essentially because the Prime
:15:02. > :15:04.Minister wanted to make a speech. Now the minister-macro and other
:15:05. > :15:09.ministers have talked about how the Troubled Families Programme is a
:15:10. > :15:13.success and that is based on the number of people 's lives who have
:15:14. > :15:19.been turned around by it. It's worth looking at what they mean when they
:15:20. > :15:29.sit in and around. On the latest statistics, the scheme has turned
:15:30. > :15:32.around 53,000 families. But of all these, only 4500 have been turned
:15:33. > :15:38.around because a member of the family could sustain work, remaining
:15:39. > :15:42.are deemed turned around because of other criteria, for example their
:15:43. > :15:47.children may have got three suspensions in a year, truancy rate
:15:48. > :15:52.of less than 15% and the family may have reduced its anti-social
:15:53. > :15:58.behaviour and offending. So families and offending. So families of school
:15:59. > :16:05.a week gets suspended twice in a year and are deemed to be turned
:16:06. > :16:09.around. Clearly when families improve on these outcomes, it is
:16:10. > :16:13.genuine improvement, but it is absurd to suggest that because the
:16:14. > :16:16.child of the family is true in things slightly less, but it means
:16:17. > :16:24.the family has been turned around permanently. The measures don't
:16:25. > :16:27.address real problems such as domestic violence, and families
:16:28. > :16:30.deemed to have been turned around aren't on the back of the scheme
:16:31. > :16:38.even if things go wrong. So it's a bit early to claim that the scheme
:16:39. > :16:42.is a success. I'm joined by the director general of the Troubled
:16:43. > :16:52.Families Programme. It is a gargantuan task, did you think it
:16:53. > :16:55.would be as tough? Yes, I did. I started work in this area many years
:16:56. > :17:03.go and when the government had they wanted to do this, I knew it was
:17:04. > :17:08.going to be extremely ambitious. You have got 120 to nearly half a
:17:09. > :17:15.million, and on that figure of 53,000, only 4500 have found
:17:16. > :17:25.implement, continuous employment after six months. -- have found
:17:26. > :17:33.employment. These families are probably the furthest away from the
:17:34. > :17:38.job market than any. But 4500 out of 53,000 that are deemed to have been
:17:39. > :17:44.turned around. It is about 10%, in the scheme of things, when you
:17:45. > :17:48.consider how problematic these families are, layered upon domestic
:17:49. > :17:51.violence, crime, anti-social behaviour, extremely significant
:17:52. > :17:55.health problems, we're talking about families which have often never
:17:56. > :18:04.worked and their parents have never worked. But you have only got under
:18:05. > :18:10.5000 out of 53,000 into work. I am not saying that's... They are deemed
:18:11. > :18:13.to have been turned around, because it's not a question of the family
:18:14. > :18:23.having no suspensions, no offending among miners, and no social
:18:24. > :18:31.behaviour, it is 60% reduction, three exclusions maximum and an
:18:32. > :18:37.offending reduction. They are off the programme, isn't that scary? The
:18:38. > :18:40.first thing to say is, of those who have been turned around, nobody
:18:41. > :18:43.should underestimate the extraordinary distance those
:18:44. > :18:47.families have travel. You said yourself that it is gargantuan,
:18:48. > :18:54.extremely ambitious, they are large families, as we know from the study
:18:55. > :18:58.we have done, and all of the children, every member of that
:18:59. > :19:02.family, the reduction has to be by 60% and they had to reduce crime by
:19:03. > :19:08.30 and they have two get the kid into school. He said they had turned
:19:09. > :19:14.around, it would seem to me they are just turning around, rather than
:19:15. > :19:19.saying, tick the box, you are off the scheming to can't get back on
:19:20. > :19:24.it. People are putting words into mouse here. I am clear that just
:19:25. > :19:29.because a family has made these very significant moves in the right
:19:30. > :19:33.direction, doesn't mean to say all the problems are over and everything
:19:34. > :19:43.is perfect. Why can't face day in the scheme? -- they stay. They get
:19:44. > :19:48.specialist help? For as long as they needed. There are many families with
:19:49. > :19:50.the local authorities have claimed their results payment for and they
:19:51. > :19:56.continue to work with those families. The woman you interviewed
:19:57. > :20:01.earlier is in that situation. But if you have 53 families who are turning
:20:02. > :20:07.around, but completely turned around, and are still on the books,
:20:08. > :20:13.you are moving from a base rate of only managing it was half of 120,000
:20:14. > :20:17.families, to taking on half a million families. Is there not a
:20:18. > :20:21.danger you are completely tolerating this, wouldn't it be better to stick
:20:22. > :20:31.with the families, see them through finally rather than getting more
:20:32. > :20:35.money... I don't think it is. The thing that is interesting about this
:20:36. > :20:40.programme is that everybody knows these families have dominated our
:20:41. > :20:44.public services for years. We need to render that there are hundreds of
:20:45. > :20:48.different organisations circling around these families and not fixing
:20:49. > :20:51.them. The difference with this programme is that you have one
:20:52. > :20:57.worker that completely grips the family and grips all members of it.
:20:58. > :21:04.You can argue about semantics till the cows come home... Turned around
:21:05. > :21:09.means they are off the books. It doesn't mean they are off the books.
:21:10. > :21:13.There's a difference between when a local authority says we have moved
:21:14. > :21:20.them this far and it's time to make a results claim... Which is a
:21:21. > :21:23.financial claim. If you get all of the children back into school for
:21:24. > :21:31.three consecutive terms, almost 12 months, it is a huge movement in the
:21:32. > :21:35.right direction. You are saying 5000 families isn't a lot to get them
:21:36. > :21:38.into work, it's an amazing achievement to get these families
:21:39. > :21:41.into work when you know the background to them. The study I
:21:42. > :21:46.published a couple of weeks ago showed they had an average of nine
:21:47. > :21:52.huge problems. Including domestic violence, that doesn't come up in
:21:53. > :21:56.the scheme. Let me just put it to you that you are talking about being
:21:57. > :22:04.able to deliver this sort of service on cash-strapped councils with
:22:05. > :22:06.nearly half a million families. Aren't you building hugely false
:22:07. > :22:11.expectations of what you can achieve in five years? The most
:22:12. > :22:14.extraordinary story here is that public services, local authorities
:22:15. > :22:21.in particular, have gripped this programme, it is they who have said
:22:22. > :22:24.they want to help more families, get children younger, had earlier
:22:25. > :22:31.intervention, they are the power behind us to extend this programme.
:22:32. > :22:33.The matter what anybody says, those families have changed significantly
:22:34. > :22:47.and can only be a good thing in today. Thank you very much.
:22:48. > :22:49.This came after the governor of Missouri signed an order
:22:50. > :22:57.for the National Guard to quell the escalating protests.
:22:58. > :23:04.The situation remains press after night. These are the scenes that
:23:05. > :23:11.printed the calling in the US National Guard. The night-time
:23:12. > :23:14.curfew, intended to quell unrest, has now ended but the fatal police
:23:15. > :23:18.shooting of an unarmed black teenager more than a week ago, that
:23:19. > :23:24.a the violent protest last night. Police used tear gas and rubber
:23:25. > :23:27.bullets as the violence escalated. An initial autopsy found he had been
:23:28. > :23:33.shot but the police did not disclose how many times. Today a private
:23:34. > :23:38.autopsy commissioned by the family revealed he was shot at least six
:23:39. > :23:43.times, including twice in the head, and suggested he was killed while
:23:44. > :23:47.trying to surrender. The army said mobile part of your body, so it
:23:48. > :23:51.could have occurred when he was putting his hands up -- the arm is a
:23:52. > :23:57.mobile part. It could have happened if he put his arms across the
:23:58. > :24:01.defensive manner, we don't know. His family are calling for the rest of
:24:02. > :24:13.the officer involved. What is justice to you? Being fair.
:24:14. > :24:18.Arresting this man, and making him accountable for his actions. This
:24:19. > :24:25.evening President Obama highlighted the plight for some young black men
:24:26. > :24:29.in parts of the US. You have young men of colour in many communities
:24:30. > :24:34.who are more likely to end up in jail or in the criminal justice
:24:35. > :24:41.system than they are in a good job or in college. Part of my job, that
:24:42. > :24:51.I can to without any potential conflicts, is to get at those root
:24:52. > :24:55.causes. Michael Brown's death has sparked days of clashes between
:24:56. > :25:03.protesters and police. Authorities in the back row will be watching to
:25:04. > :25:12.see with the end of the curfew will curb or escalate the protests. First
:25:13. > :25:19.of all, do you think this is a pivotal moment for America? There is
:25:20. > :25:24.no doubt that once again, we have to deal with the vicious legacy of
:25:25. > :25:28.white supremacy, once again we have to raise the question. If our dear
:25:29. > :25:35.brother Michael Brown, were a precious white youths or a precious
:25:36. > :25:39.Jewish youth, would the president, Congress, legal system, respond in
:25:40. > :25:45.the same way as being a precious black brother in Ferguson? I think
:25:46. > :25:49.we know the answer. The American system is an abysmal failure when it
:25:50. > :25:57.comes to keeping track of the humanity of black poor youth. Is
:25:58. > :26:07.there a deep mistrust now among young black youth in America of what
:26:08. > :26:10.hand has been dealt them? It is generational. In my generation, we
:26:11. > :26:15.are the distrust of the police because of arbitrary police power,
:26:16. > :26:21.because of a deeply racist legal system, saying is true for this new
:26:22. > :26:26.generation. We have lost three waves of young, poor youth with a bogus
:26:27. > :26:33.war against drugs that generated unbelievable expansion of the new
:26:34. > :26:41.Jim Crow, callousness, indifference, has been the response of
:26:42. > :26:44.presidents, Congress, and think about the hypocrisy here. Recently
:26:45. > :26:48.the president said, were tortured some folks but they were real
:26:49. > :26:52.patriots, they were dealing with anguish, but here we have young
:26:53. > :26:57.people upset because they rightly see a murder taking place. And he
:26:58. > :27:04.has to be the manner of law and order. It's not law and order when
:27:05. > :27:08.it comes to torture. But it's law and order now and it comes to poor
:27:09. > :27:14.black people. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. You were just talking
:27:15. > :27:19.about President Obama, do you think his response has been sufficient to
:27:20. > :27:22.the task in terms of, what do you think of the assessment of the way
:27:23. > :27:31.he has behaved since the death of Michael Brown? I think his words
:27:32. > :27:35.reek of political calculation, rather than moral conviction. Keep
:27:36. > :27:40.in mind that he put out a statement for the death of Robin Williams, who
:27:41. > :27:48.was at comic genius, before he put out a statement on Michael Brown.
:27:49. > :27:54.The family asked for an autopsy, they hesitated, they had to get
:27:55. > :28:02.their own autopsy. Now we know of the six shots, of the head being...
:28:03. > :28:11.But the grief is overwhelming. But does that excuse... It is disgusting
:28:12. > :28:19.to have a black president unable to keep track of what is going on with
:28:20. > :28:22.the young black youth. The grief and anger is understandable but does
:28:23. > :28:30.that excuse looting? Why should they go together? No, no. I am not
:28:31. > :28:35.justifying looting. That's wrong, that's wrong. We have to be honest
:28:36. > :28:40.about calling out what is wrong, but the most important thing is, if in
:28:41. > :28:45.fact there was a semblance of a just process, a semblance of
:28:46. > :28:48.transparency, you wouldn't have the young brothers and sisters throw in
:28:49. > :28:54.the Molotov cocktails because they would recognise. Another is pleading
:28:55. > :28:59.to have her precious baby, who had been murdered, to have the person at
:29:00. > :29:08.least arrested so we can begin a fair trial, and she can't get that,
:29:09. > :29:11.in America, 2014! You are one black leader. What do you think the Black
:29:12. > :29:16.leadership in America should be doing now? Do you think the black
:29:17. > :29:23.leadership in America now it's wanting? I am not a black leader, I
:29:24. > :29:28.am a lover of black people, I am not a leader. I try and tell the truth
:29:29. > :29:32.about the suffering of poor black people in general, but what we need
:29:33. > :29:36.now is quality leadership on every level. We don't need the same
:29:37. > :29:43.everyday folk coming through with the market branding, the names and
:29:44. > :29:46.photo opportunities. We need local grassroots leaders who have
:29:47. > :29:51.integrity, and the sad thing is we have such low qwerty black
:29:52. > :29:55.leadership in America so you get a certain distance from what is
:29:56. > :30:00.actually happening on the ground, in terms of not just being there but
:30:01. > :30:04.following room. We have people who have been apologists for the
:30:05. > :30:10.President Obama administration who every event, come through, was their
:30:11. > :30:18.justice for Trayvon Martin? Absolutely not. We can go across the
:30:19. > :30:24.board. We need leadership, especially grassroots, with
:30:25. > :30:25.integrity. That brings us to the great legacy of Martin Luther King
:30:26. > :30:29.and the others. And no, this isn't another question
:30:30. > :30:34.about the Scottish referendum - 95% of Britons think that to
:30:35. > :30:39.be considered truly British you Yet there are almost
:30:40. > :30:44.a million people in these islands Newsnight has had first sight
:30:45. > :30:53.of their report which calls for a complete overhaul
:30:54. > :30:56.of the Government's language Jim Reed has been finding
:30:57. > :31:08.out what it's like to live My name is Beatrice. I'm happy to
:31:09. > :31:15.have this class and teach you this morning. We used to make small talk
:31:16. > :31:19.about the weather. Now, in this English class, the modern-day
:31:20. > :31:28.equivalent. Where do you usually go shopping? What about Morrisons? This
:31:29. > :31:34.couple are from west Africa. He came here from a Portuguese passport to
:31:35. > :31:39.stack shelves at Tesco. He's just joined this beginners' class. How
:31:40. > :31:45.old are your children? The boy is 11. The girl is four. Do they speak
:31:46. > :31:50.English? Yes. As their first language? Yes. They speak English
:31:51. > :31:56.better than Portuguese? Yeah. How difficult is that as a family? Yeah,
:31:57. > :32:04.sometimes, some word, they don't understand what they said in my
:32:05. > :32:11.language. I don't know how to explain them, how, erm...... How do
:32:12. > :32:14.you get the word. Them say, it is Through your difficult. Relationship
:32:15. > :32:17.with your daughter, if you can't speak the same language, is that a
:32:18. > :32:35.problem? Which shop is your favourite shop?
:32:36. > :32:40.Four million in the UK now live in households where English is not the
:32:41. > :32:43.main language. Some, like this woman from Egypt, have been living here
:32:44. > :32:49.for decades without speaking it well. You've been here 25 years, in
:32:50. > :32:54.this country, why just start to learn English now? Why not before
:32:55. > :33:00.now? Before because I working, I send money for my family in Egypt.
:33:01. > :33:03.Now everyone is married from my brother's children and my mum she
:33:04. > :33:09.passed away. I'm looking for myself. Do you wish you'd started earlier? I
:33:10. > :33:13.wish. How do we get to the situation where some of the people in your
:33:14. > :33:19.class have lived here for 20, 30 years even and cannot speak English?
:33:20. > :33:23.I know, it's absolutely amazing. I do some registration myself and I
:33:24. > :33:26.say, you've been here 25 years, why haven't you come to learn before?
:33:27. > :33:32.People have come straight into work. They've got a job in a cafe or a
:33:33. > :33:37.restaurant, as a chef, and they - They haven't needed language skills
:33:38. > :33:44.in that situation? Their priority was to get work so they could
:33:45. > :33:50.survive, basically. The most popular English language course is free to
:33:51. > :33:56.those on out of work benefits. The rest pay up to ?1,000 a year. A
:33:57. > :33:59.report out tomorrow criticises Labour for wasting money on the
:34:00. > :34:03.scheme and then the coalition for cutting funding significantly in
:34:04. > :34:07.England, leading to a big drop in student numbers. 850,000 people in
:34:08. > :34:11.this country can't speak English well or can't speak English at all.
:34:12. > :34:16.That's completely unacceptable. Just to compare that with the number of
:34:17. > :34:21.people who are on these courses, in the main programme, which isn't
:34:22. > :34:27.everybody, there are 150,000. You can see, there's a very big gap
:34:28. > :34:32.between needs and needs that are being met. Of those 850,000, they
:34:33. > :34:39.might not all want to learn English. That's absolutely right. They might
:34:40. > :34:45.not want to. Nonetheless there are about 80% of colleges that provide
:34:46. > :34:52.these courses report long waiting lists of up to a thousand potential
:34:53. > :34:58.students. These two are charging down this slide, in part because of
:34:59. > :35:05.Joanna lumly, the actress led the campaign to give Gurkhas the right
:35:06. > :35:16.to live in the UK. This former soldier and his wife left Nepal to
:35:17. > :35:20.start a new life here. Laksmi came here with basic English. After her
:35:21. > :35:24.course, three years later, she might not be fluent, but she's not far off
:35:25. > :35:30.it. It makes it very, very hard, when you don't understand their
:35:31. > :35:38.language. And when you are even like alone, among strangers, it is very,
:35:39. > :35:46.very hard and I felt like I'm confined, I'm in a jail. The report
:35:47. > :35:49.out tomorrow argues we need to make the process simpler. Immigrants
:35:50. > :36:00.could be offered loans to cover course fees or told to buy language
:36:01. > :36:03.lessons as a condition of entry. She's now planning to retrain and go
:36:04. > :36:08.back to work with her new English skills. After learning English for
:36:09. > :36:13.three years, I believe that I'm able to speak, I'm able to express my
:36:14. > :36:20.feeling and I have gained some skills as well. I have planned to do
:36:21. > :36:25.accounting course from September. I think there's a big jump from three
:36:26. > :36:33.years ago and now. Do you find you're getting better and better?
:36:34. > :36:36.I'm getting better. I'm getting better than before, when I was first
:36:37. > :36:40.in Have you England. Leapfrogged your husband, do you think your
:36:41. > :36:44.speaking is better than his? Are you competitive about it? Yes, of
:36:45. > :36:49.course, I'm better than him now. The Government says it has now
:36:50. > :36:54.tightened the rules for non-EU migrants and a basic language test
:36:55. > :36:59.is now part of the residency exam. It says Government funding must be
:37:00. > :37:03.targeted at those whose poor English is stopping them getting into
:37:04. > :37:09.employment. I was chef nearly 35 years... In the class in west
:37:10. > :37:13.London, Galia came here to work as a chef in the Ritz Hotel. She never
:37:14. > :37:24.left. It took her 20 years to start learning English, encouraged by
:37:25. > :37:32.surprising role models. He's crazy like me. You like this man? I love
:37:33. > :37:36.it. I love this man. The kind of integration then, the one half of
:37:37. > :37:40.the coalition would dearly love to see. Immigration is likely to drive
:37:41. > :37:45.up our population over the next 20 years. Whether those new entrants
:37:46. > :37:52.will be told to or even be able to speak English, that could make a big
:37:53. > :37:55.difference to British society. David lamby is in the studio and in
:37:56. > :38:00.Birmingham the Conservative special advisor on youth and crime Sean
:38:01. > :38:04.Bailey. Do you think it's acceptable that more than 850,000 people in
:38:05. > :38:12.this country can't speak useable English? I don't believe you can
:38:13. > :38:15.build cohesive communities if people can't communicate. But whose
:38:16. > :38:19.responsibility is it? One of the points in the report is if
:38:20. > :38:22.immigrants are going to come to this country immigrants learning English
:38:23. > :38:28.would be part of the package of making sure they pass the test to
:38:29. > :38:31.come into the country. That's key. Because who takes the responsibility
:38:32. > :38:34.for paying the bills? There has to be some respect for the communities
:38:35. > :38:38.that are already here, taxpayers, who will have to cover that cost.
:38:39. > :38:41.You believe it's the immigrants themselves who should shoulder the
:38:42. > :38:45.cost? For sure. One way to look at it is to say you're effectively
:38:46. > :38:49.asking British citizens to shoulder the cost of other people's
:38:50. > :38:53.immigration. We have a very generous system as it is with our NHS and the
:38:54. > :38:57.rest of that, this will add to that bill. That will be a hard sell for
:38:58. > :39:01.the public. There has to be some respect for the people who cover the
:39:02. > :39:05.bills. What he's saying as to society cohesion, if people can
:39:06. > :39:11.speak English together rather than be isolated within their own home or
:39:12. > :39:16.within their own family, do you see a difference between asylum seekers
:39:17. > :39:23.and economic migrants. There's two things, what Sean says is fatuous.
:39:24. > :39:26.Asylum seekers are coming from places like Somalia, we see the
:39:27. > :39:30.problems in Iraq. Many will arrive over coming years. These are
:39:31. > :39:33.vulnerable people. Often not very literate in their own languages. Of
:39:34. > :39:36.course the state has to find language courses for them so that
:39:37. > :39:40.they can get into the employment market. Many are women, like that
:39:41. > :39:44.woman you saw, 20 years she's not been able to speak She was English.
:39:45. > :39:49.Wonderful, delight ever, but she had a job from the moment she arrived
:39:50. > :39:52.here. Surely, you wouldn't think it was incumbent upon her to learn
:39:53. > :39:57.English? Yes and employers have to play a bigger role in that. You need
:39:58. > :40:01.courses in churches, in mosques, in community groups. 40% of this
:40:02. > :40:06.funding has been cut, gone, over the last five years. The criticism was
:40:07. > :40:10.that Labour frittered it and didn't use proper programmes. The budget
:40:11. > :40:14.trebled under Labour. We got more people into work under Labour. It
:40:15. > :40:18.was a good thing. We now have hundreds of thousands of people
:40:19. > :40:22.sitting at home, unable to enter the job market because they cannot speak
:40:23. > :40:27.English. Hold on, you've conflated two things. You are talking about
:40:28. > :40:30.immigration versus asylum seekers. Asylum seekers are very different.
:40:31. > :40:34.If the Government invites someone here for whatever reason that's
:40:35. > :40:37.going on in the world, we take some responsibility for them. If you're
:40:38. > :40:40.an economic migrant, you have to cover your own bill. You can't
:40:41. > :40:45.charge your immigration to my tax bill. That's ridiculous. A lot of
:40:46. > :40:49.the economic migrants who come do pay taxes. Yeah, but before they get
:40:50. > :40:53.into the country, they should be able to say that they will cover the
:40:54. > :40:57.cost. What do you mean, before they get into the country? You can't
:40:58. > :41:02.expect them to get here and not speak English. They won't One in
:41:03. > :41:04.survive. Three are coming within the European Union. They're coming from
:41:05. > :41:09.Poland. They're coming from France. They're coming from Spain. They have
:41:10. > :41:14.free movement. What requirement? You can't. Just like when you go to
:41:15. > :41:17.France... Hang on a minute, do we need to change all that? I'm sure
:41:18. > :41:23.Sean will say we should pull out of Europe. Don't put words in my mouth.
:41:24. > :41:27.I've never said no such thing. Should free movement include that
:41:28. > :41:32.you can show you can speak basic English. If we say that you can
:41:33. > :41:35.speak basic French and basic Spanish. Perhaps. It's not currently
:41:36. > :41:43.the system. Do you thi it's reasonable, we have a cash-strapped
:41:44. > :41:48.NHS. In 2012, in England, there was ?23 million paid for translations
:41:49. > :41:52.for people within the NHS, do you think that is acceptable? There is a
:41:53. > :41:56.question about the translation bill, particularly, I think in a library.
:41:57. > :42:01.But I've got to say that the cost for people not being able to
:42:02. > :42:06.navigate English is far greater in the NHS. You do need people. You
:42:07. > :42:11.pick up that bill, if you're socially excluded and you can't
:42:12. > :42:16.access medicine. Far greater cost to the planning. You can't just wait
:42:17. > :42:19.for people to arrive. Sean Bailey, finally, we know that the waiting
:42:20. > :42:23.list for these courses is huge. If you're going to resolve this in the
:42:24. > :42:26.short-term, what has to be Separate out done? The people who we as
:42:27. > :42:30.taxpayers are responsible for, because they're coming here for a
:42:31. > :42:34.particular reason, and who is an economic migrant. If you migrate to
:42:35. > :42:38.a country, your education, your ability to communicate, surely that
:42:39. > :42:41.bill rests with you. You have to have some respect for the people who
:42:42. > :42:45.pay the bills. There's lots of things in this country that
:42:46. > :42:47.communities need. To ask them to pay for other people's bills seems to be
:42:48. > :42:52.pushing it. Thank you both. The triumphant England Women's Rugby
:42:53. > :42:57.team arrived home from Paris today, after beating Canada in the
:42:58. > :42:59.World Cup final. Their decisive 21-9 win,
:43:00. > :43:02.in front of the sold-out stadium, and two million people watching
:43:03. > :43:05.on television, shows just how much of a revolution has taken place in
:43:06. > :43:08.the sport since women first played, But for the women, all amateurs,
:43:09. > :43:13.there's none of the glamour of sponsorship, fees,
:43:14. > :43:15.and big club deals It's back to the day jobs
:43:16. > :43:23.for the squad. Maggie Alphonsi, one of those
:43:24. > :43:28.players is here. Many congratulations. You must be on
:43:29. > :43:31.cloud nine. I'm over the moon. I can't believe it's actually
:43:32. > :43:33.happened. What a fantastic result to come away with a Gold Medal, after
:43:34. > :43:38.years of hard work. It's brilliant. Do you thi that the result of your
:43:39. > :43:42.win, of course, England has won before, but 20 years ago, do you
:43:43. > :43:45.think the result this afternoon win will be to ramp up both the interest
:43:46. > :43:49.in women's rugby, but also the desire to take it another stage?
:43:50. > :43:55.Definitely. I think now the fact that we've won the World Cup in our
:43:56. > :43:58.own country has made us think we can get more women involved in the
:43:59. > :44:02.sport. We had the World Cup in 2010 and there was a lot of attention. In
:44:03. > :44:06.2014 in France, the media coverage was fantastic. We got a lot more
:44:07. > :44:09.people who wanted to get involved in the women's game, but have never
:44:10. > :44:13.seen women's rugby before and are interested in it. For a long time,
:44:14. > :44:22.the television stations wouldn't take women's rugby. When you
:44:23. > :44:23.actually see the game, you see how extraordinarily talented,
:44:24. > :44:27.professional and everything else, where go back to your day jobs? It's
:44:28. > :44:31.one of the things where I started playing at 13 years old. There
:44:32. > :44:36.wasn't a lot for women's rugby. We played rugby. We didn't get a lot of
:44:37. > :44:40.attention on tfr or media articles. Over the last 15 years, I've seen
:44:41. > :44:51.rot depression change so much. It was slow, though. You have to see
:44:52. > :44:54.that it is frustrating. It is going to take time. Look at women's
:44:55. > :44:59.football now. What's pleasing about rugby is we're get thering. The men
:45:00. > :45:03.get paid fees for winning, fees for taking part, going back to the club,
:45:04. > :45:07.amazing sponsorship. You would think that people would be jumping to
:45:08. > :45:11.spoonor women's rugbiment Now we've won it. Who knows what will happen
:45:12. > :45:17.from here. I think it will only get better from now on. Do you think
:45:18. > :45:20.that every single club should have women's rugby within the club?
:45:21. > :45:24.Definitely. More girls are getting involved in the Do you sport. Think
:45:25. > :45:28.because of this win, the same way there's always a bounce from
:45:29. > :45:32.different sports, that actually, you talked about taking up rugby at 13,
:45:33. > :45:36.that actually there will be in schools, for young women, rugby.
:45:37. > :45:39.There is still a prejudice against it in some schools. It's growing
:45:40. > :45:42.already. I've been looking at social media and the amount of Twitter
:45:43. > :45:46.comments from positive people interested in getting involved in
:45:47. > :45:51.the women's game, young girls, you know, women wanting to be part of
:45:52. > :45:56.it, that's positive. It's Gowing -- it's only going to get better. Is it
:45:57. > :45:59.a big celebration for everybody? We have been celebrating. But the focus
:46:00. > :46:09.is the next World Cup in three Thank you years. Very much.
:46:10. > :46:12.James Alexander Wilson has died. He read the classified football results
:46:13. > :46:16.on BBC Radio for 40 years before stepping down last year. He was
:46:17. > :46:20.famous for his distinctive style, especially altering his tone of
:46:21. > :46:25.voice to indicate whether a result was home or away win or a draw. We
:46:26. > :46:29.leave you the explanation of the method in his own words. I always
:46:30. > :46:32.try to make the five minutes really interesting for the listener. Of
:46:33. > :46:39.course, the best way to do it is to get the inflection right, obviously,
:46:40. > :46:44.which I hope I do. And for instance, if Arsenal have lost, well, I'm
:46:45. > :46:50.sorry for them. If Manchester United have won, I'm happy for them. So it
:46:51. > :46:55.would go something like this. Arsenal one, Manchester United 2.
:46:56. > :47:22.And so on and so forth. Simple as that.
:47:23. > :47:30.A fresh start in the morning, plenty of showers over north-west England
:47:31. > :47:33.and parts of Wales. We are left with a scattering of showers for the
:47:34. > :47:42.afternoon, sunny spells as well but it won't feel warm. Generally it
:47:43. > :47:50.will stay dry in the central belt of Scotland. Temperatures in some cases
:47:51. > :47:52.may not even get to 13. After a wet start in Greater Manchester,