:00:07. > :00:08.Not willing to listen, not willing to act.
:00:09. > :00:11.How the authorities let down more than a 1,000 children,
:00:12. > :00:24.No matter what is done now, if it is investigated now it won't change
:00:25. > :00:30.that, it was too late, it should have been
:00:31. > :00:32.Is Europe still capable of fighting this off?
:00:33. > :00:38.One of NATO's former top brass thinks not.
:00:39. > :00:45.. It is going, European nations will have to put their money in their
:00:46. > :00:47.pocket and put their hands in their pockets to spend more money on
:00:48. > :00:52.defence. And the good people of Thanet south
:00:53. > :00:59.in Kent will have the chance to choose him as an MP, why is Nigel
:01:00. > :01:02.Farage so sure he will get elected? # If I only could
:01:03. > :01:10.# Make a deal with God # And get him to swap our places
:01:11. > :01:14.We couldn't all squeeze in at the back but we will hear what Kate Bush
:01:15. > :01:25.was like on stage more than 30 years on.
:01:26. > :01:33.For years children in the Yorkshire down of Rotterham were being raped
:01:34. > :01:37.and warned off if they threatened to tell. An independent inquiry shows
:01:38. > :01:40.they were victims not once but twice over, because the authorities whose
:01:41. > :01:45.job it was to protect them knew and didn't act to end it, the report's
:01:46. > :01:50.author tells us tonight we need a national system to track this kind
:01:51. > :01:54.of systematic, often violent abuse, grooming seems far too polite a
:01:55. > :02:00.word. We will hear from her in a moment. First here is Chris Cook.
:02:01. > :02:07.Today new light has been shed on one of the darkest of stories. Alexis
:02:08. > :02:11.Jay, a social work expert, has conducted a review into Rotherham's
:02:12. > :02:15.child protection. Triggered by a series of reports about sexual
:02:16. > :02:19.exploitation. In 2010 five local men were prosecuted for abuse, in a case
:02:20. > :02:22.that propelled the town's problems on to the front pages. But the
:02:23. > :02:27.results of the review, which look back as far as the late 1990s
:02:28. > :02:31.suggest that was just one link in a chilling pattern.
:02:32. > :02:39.It is hard to describe the appalling nature of the abuse the child
:02:40. > :02:41.victims suffered. They were raped by multiple perpetrator, they were
:02:42. > :02:46.traffiked to other towns and cities in the north of England. We were
:02:47. > :02:50.abducted, beaten and intimidated. There were examples of children
:02:51. > :02:55.being dowsed with petrol and threatened with being set alight.
:02:56. > :02:58.They were threatened with guns, made to witness brutally violent rapes
:02:59. > :03:02.and threatened they would be the next if they told anyone
:03:03. > :03:07.The review looked at 66 case files from vulnerable local children,
:03:08. > :03:13.finding sexual exploitation in 64 cases. The true scale of the problem
:03:14. > :03:19.is hard to gauge. But the report estimated that 1,400 children may
:03:20. > :03:24.have been exploited over 16 years from 1997 to 2013.
:03:25. > :03:29.Whatever the extent of the abuse the incidents rede tailed by the report
:03:30. > :03:33.are harrowing. This local woman spoke to BBC Panorama, on the
:03:34. > :03:36.condition of anonymity. I think because the police were aware social
:03:37. > :03:40.services were aware and you knew that and they still didn't stop him,
:03:41. > :03:46.I think it encouraged him and it almost became a game to him, he was
:03:47. > :03:49.untouchable. Or take child A, a case from the report who was identified
:03:50. > :03:53.by the authorities of being at risk when she was 12 years old, she was
:03:54. > :03:59.possibly taking drugs, and revealed that she had intercourse with five
:04:00. > :04:03.adults. Two adults received police cautions after admitting as much to
:04:04. > :04:07.them. When her case was discussed by local officials a local police
:04:08. > :04:12.officer argued that she shouldn't be considered a victim of sexual abuse
:04:13. > :04:16.because he thought that child A had been 100% consensual in every
:04:17. > :04:19.incident. This was overruled by other local official who is had a
:04:20. > :04:27.clear understanding that what had happened was a crime. As that case
:04:28. > :04:31.highlights there were institutional failures that enabled this tragedy.
:04:32. > :04:34.South Yorkshire Police, the report said, regarded many child victims
:04:35. > :04:38.with contempt. The council ignored warnings and did not take child
:04:39. > :04:42.protection seriously, and there was a particular issue around race. The
:04:43. > :04:47.report notes that by far the majority of the perpetrators were
:04:48. > :04:53.described as Asian by their victim, but several local staff described
:04:54. > :04:57.their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators
:04:58. > :05:00.for fear of being thought racist. Others remembered clear direction
:05:01. > :05:04.from their managers not to do so. As the report notes, these predatory
:05:05. > :05:08.men preyed on Asian and white girls alike. The council leader has
:05:09. > :05:14.resigned, and the police have apologised. I think it is important
:05:15. > :05:18.we recognise we failed, we let our young people down and from the start
:05:19. > :05:21.I want to offer a sincere and unreserved apology for victims and
:05:22. > :05:25.families that we should have done more with. We have commissioned a
:05:26. > :05:29.number of investigations with the hor at thises calm complaints and we
:05:30. > :05:33.will continue to work to identify those responsible and bring them to
:05:34. > :05:36.justice. The extent of the problems in Rotherham are not common, but
:05:37. > :05:43.some of the local institutional problems revealed by the report are.
:05:44. > :05:47.Rotherham ought to be a wake-up call to officials everywhere. Professor
:05:48. > :05:51.Jay who wrote the report said the authorities involved have great deal
:05:52. > :05:56.to answer for, despite that both Rotherham Council and South
:05:57. > :06:01.Yorkshire Police declined our invitation for interview. Both
:06:02. > :06:05.failed to act on repeated warnings in 2002, 2003, and 2006. When I
:06:06. > :06:09.spoke to Professor Jay earlier I asked her how that could have
:06:10. > :06:13.happened? It is difficult to understand exactly how it could have
:06:14. > :06:20.happened because the three reports to which you refer are so clear in
:06:21. > :06:25.what they are saying about the problem in Rotherham. They couldn't
:06:26. > :06:29.be less ambiguous. Was there a cover-up then? What was going on in
:06:30. > :06:35.your view, having studied it so carefully? There were a succession
:06:36. > :06:40.of senior managers and others in the council and in the police who seem
:06:41. > :06:45.to hold a very similar view and there seemed to be no form of
:06:46. > :06:49.challenge to that view. But they even accused some of the younger
:06:50. > :06:57.workers of exaggerating what they had been finding? That word was used
:06:58. > :07:01.so frequently by some of the staff who were involved at the time, the
:07:02. > :07:06.frontline staff, but actually also by others in different positions in
:07:07. > :07:10.relation to child sexual exploitation, where it was firmly
:07:11. > :07:12.the belief that there was exaggeration going on about the
:07:13. > :07:17.scale of the problem. Surely it should be the case that
:07:18. > :07:20.those people who did not take those concerns seriously, as you have
:07:21. > :07:28.described, surely they should not be working in this sector today? Well I
:07:29. > :07:33.can only quote the chief executive who has apparently contacted current
:07:34. > :07:37.employers of people who were previously employed by the council
:07:38. > :07:42.to draw their attention to the report and for any action which they
:07:43. > :07:47.think needs to be taken. Now you did not find evidence in your report
:07:48. > :07:54.that sensitivities over the thisties had affected decision making. But it
:07:55. > :07:59.is woven through the words and the concerns in your report, almost on
:08:00. > :08:07.every page, you report some workers were told by managers not to reveal
:08:08. > :08:10.the ethnicity of the they were -- perpetrators. Do you think it was
:08:11. > :08:17.political correctness hiding what was going on? That is a possibility,
:08:18. > :08:21.it is certainly the case, and I was glad to see it did not affect how
:08:22. > :08:24.professional social workers approached the work they carried out
:08:25. > :08:30.with individual children. However, there was a very strong response and
:08:31. > :08:36.perception, as you say, that ethnic issues played some part in this. And
:08:37. > :08:40.the number of people I asked why do you think this happened, the same
:08:41. > :08:45.question as you are asking me, why do you think this happened, many
:08:46. > :08:51.have come up with that as a possible reason. When it comes, however, to
:08:52. > :08:59.the sexual exploitation of children, do you think it is the case that any
:09:00. > :09:03.sensitivity towards diversity, any ethnicity, any gender issues, surely
:09:04. > :09:09.that should just go out the window, shouldn't the priority be taking
:09:10. > :09:16.children seriously? Absolutely, and you will see that I make that in one
:09:17. > :09:21.my recommendations, where any ethnic dimension with any group is a
:09:22. > :09:25.critical factor then it must be pursued and understood in order to
:09:26. > :09:29.bring perpetrators to justice. Professor Jay, you have looked in
:09:30. > :09:34.detail at what was going on in this one town, we know already that it
:09:35. > :09:39.was happening in several others, but do you think we're anywhere near
:09:40. > :09:45.really getting a grip of the scale of this problem as a country
:09:46. > :09:52.overall. I think the fact that we have no national system of reporting
:09:53. > :09:56.information and gathering data about the problem means that we can't
:09:57. > :09:59.compare one area with another. I certainly have no evidence to
:10:00. > :10:05.suggest that Rotherham is very much worse than other places. So it is
:10:06. > :10:09.impossible to tell and nobody could tell you what the true scale of
:10:10. > :10:14.child sexual exploitation in Britain is, but it is almost certainly
:10:15. > :10:19.underestimated significantly. Ought we to have such a national system?
:10:20. > :10:25.It would certainly help to understand the true scale of the
:10:26. > :10:31.problem if there was some kind of system for gathering information at
:10:32. > :10:37.a national level. Thank you very much indeed.
:10:38. > :10:41.We have the Children's Minister from 2010-2012 in Brighton, and Sarah
:10:42. > :10:47.Champion is the Rotherham MP and the author of a recent parliamentary
:10:48. > :10:52.report on child sexual exploitation in Sheffield and also with us
:10:53. > :10:56.tonight. Sarah Champion you worked in Rotherham for many years before
:10:57. > :11:00.becoming an MP, did you have any understanding of the scale of what
:11:01. > :11:05.was revealed today? No, and to be quite honest until I saw the report
:11:06. > :11:11.I knew there had been incidences of it before, but 1400 children and
:11:12. > :11:16.young people being abused in that way, and that is 1400 that have had
:11:17. > :11:19.the courage to come forward, not acknowledged or supported and they
:11:20. > :11:22.came forward. What terrifies me is the number of children who have been
:11:23. > :11:26.through the experience and haven't had the courage to come forward. We
:11:27. > :11:30.have to do something dramatic to make those children know that now we
:11:31. > :11:35.will listen to them. What is very clear is in the past they weren't
:11:36. > :11:39.listened to, respected ore taken seriously. When you were Children's
:11:40. > :11:43.Minister you work veried closely on this issue, were you aware that
:11:44. > :11:48.police and council members and managers were ignoring warnings of
:11:49. > :11:54.this kind of problem? Yes, and that was part of the problem, back in
:11:55. > :11:58.2011 I launched the child sexual exploitation action plan, it was a
:11:59. > :12:01.major piece of work. It brought together police, Children's
:12:02. > :12:05.Services, academics, children's charities and lots of experts to say
:12:06. > :12:13.we have to get a grip on this. That happened because of the Operation
:12:14. > :12:16.Retriever and the Derby case, and the appalling cases of the children
:12:17. > :12:21.abused again by Pakistani gangs, it brought it all out into the
:12:22. > :12:23.daylight. Because those people were pursued and prosecuted more people
:12:24. > :12:27.then came forward and people started to take this seriously, starting
:12:28. > :12:31.with the police and with Children's Services. I think that has changed
:12:32. > :12:34.everything. It is still going on and it is still a major problem, but we
:12:35. > :12:38.have realised it is a problem and much more is being done about it, in
:12:39. > :12:43.Rotherham it is a very serious problem. Given that framework that
:12:44. > :12:46.you put in place though, you must be alarmed to hear from Professor Jay
:12:47. > :12:51.that in her view this kind of thing is not just still going on, but
:12:52. > :12:55.troubled children are still being sometimes turned away, even the very
:12:56. > :13:00.victims identified in this report aren't getting the help they need.
:13:01. > :13:03.Has the Government lost sight of the problem since you departed? No, I
:13:04. > :13:06.hope the Government hasn't lost sight of the problem and lots of
:13:07. > :13:10.good, practical things are happening, but it required a change
:13:11. > :13:14.in mind set. Clearly what has come out in the Rotherham case and it is
:13:15. > :13:19.not unique to Rotherham is that the police in the interests it seems of
:13:20. > :13:24.political correctness were turning a blind eye, shuffling under the
:13:25. > :13:28.carpet the activities of serious abuser, rapist criminals and
:13:29. > :13:31.torturers, that is a disgrace and can't be allowed to happen any more.
:13:32. > :13:34.The police have been trained and brought around the table to work
:13:35. > :13:38.with other agencies to make sure they are clamping down on this sort
:13:39. > :13:42.of thing. There isn't any excuse for this, whatever the ethnic background
:13:43. > :13:45.of the people perpetrating this, they are criminals and it must be
:13:46. > :13:49.stopped. They must be brought to justice. And a lot of them are now
:13:50. > :13:52.being brought to justice and a lot of them are now in jail. Not enough,
:13:53. > :13:56.more has to be done to bring more of them to justice. There is though the
:13:57. > :14:02.role here of the authorities looking the other way. Now your constituents
:14:03. > :14:07.know tonight that nobody working in your town, who is implicated in this
:14:08. > :14:12.report is still in child protection services in your town, but they may
:14:13. > :14:15.well be Lord working elsewhere, and indeed we know from Professor Jay
:14:16. > :14:21.that the chief executive of the council has written to their current
:14:22. > :14:24.employers, essentially to warn them, should people implicated here still
:14:25. > :14:29.be working in child protection? I have very grave concerns about that.
:14:30. > :14:32.I mean clearly what has happened is whilst the frontline staff were very
:14:33. > :14:36.aware of the problems and really trying to make the voices of those
:14:37. > :14:39.young people heard, the more senior managers were, I don't know if they
:14:40. > :14:42.were turning a blind eye to it, I don't know what their justification
:14:43. > :14:45.could possibly be for this because I don't think there is any, but the
:14:46. > :14:47.fact that they could be still working in child protection of
:14:48. > :14:51.course that is something that, well, I think all of us are very concerned
:14:52. > :14:54.about that and it is something we need to investigate really fast. I
:14:55. > :14:58.know that the chief executive has written to all of their employers,
:14:59. > :15:02.but it is the fact that sort of benign neglect of the children that
:15:03. > :15:07.they are meant to be taking care of could still be going on will concern
:15:08. > :15:10.everyone. Indeed not a single person has been sacked or disciplined, if
:15:11. > :15:14.you were still Children's Minister tonight, would you be content with
:15:15. > :15:18.that? Would you be content with people still working elsewhere in
:15:19. > :15:22.child protection? I certainly wouldn't, and I'm afraid it is too
:15:23. > :15:26.common a theme that when these scandals take place, be in Haringey
:15:27. > :15:31.and Rochdale or whatever, that actually nobody or very few people
:15:32. > :15:35.actually pay the consequences and are sacked. Frankly in the case of
:15:36. > :15:37.Rotherham a social worker responsible for protecting
:15:38. > :15:41.vulnerable children, to turn a blind eye to a 12-year-old having sexual
:15:42. > :15:45.relationships with a stranger twice, three times at her age and to say
:15:46. > :15:50.well that was consensual sex and to do nothing about it, that person has
:15:51. > :15:54.absolutely no place in anything to do with vulnerable children. If they
:15:55. > :15:58.are still practising anywhere they shouldn't be. Frankly, we do need to
:15:59. > :16:01.look at the records of some of the people who were in positions of
:16:02. > :16:04.responsibility when this sort of abuse was going on in Rotherham and
:16:05. > :16:10.other places. It is not good enough just to say well I wasn't there when
:16:11. > :16:14.all this was happening. At least the leader of the council, not saying
:16:15. > :16:18.he's directly responsible, but this stuff was happening when he was at
:16:19. > :16:22.the helm has done the decent thing and stood down. There are
:16:23. > :16:27.practitioners whose day-to-day jobs are to look after vulnerable
:16:28. > :16:29.children and have clearly failed and failed vulnerable children. Thank
:16:30. > :16:34.you very much for being with us tonight.
:16:35. > :16:41.Now, explosions on the streets in Gaza tonight marked not more
:16:42. > :16:48.violence, but a ceasefire between Israel and the Palestinians after
:16:49. > :16:52.weeks of fighting and 2,000 deaths. The deal brokered by Egypt brings an
:16:53. > :16:56.easing of border restrictions on Gaza, but previous ceasefires have
:16:57. > :17:01.not lasted. Will this one be any different. We're there tonight.
:17:02. > :17:05.Certainly on the streets of Gaza tonight people seem to think it will
:17:06. > :17:09.be, because they came out in their many thousand, they were celebrating
:17:10. > :17:12.and not just the ceasefire but what they were calling victory over
:17:13. > :17:16.Israel, and in the previous deals we haven't seen that. Some of those
:17:17. > :17:20.ceasefires lasted a couple of hours, some of them lasted as long as five
:17:21. > :17:23.days. Certainly the feeling here seems to be this one may well be
:17:24. > :17:29.different. Perhaps one of the reasons they feel it is different is
:17:30. > :17:33.because the blockade is being lifted or at least partially lifted, the
:17:34. > :17:36.blockade that Egypt and Israel enforce around here in Gaza. But
:17:37. > :17:41.when you look at the details of this deal, it doesn't look very
:17:42. > :17:47.dissimilar from the ceasefire agreement that was agreed after the
:17:48. > :17:51.2012 war with Gaza. It is difficult to see really what has been
:17:52. > :17:56.achieved. When you ask Israelis what has been achieved they will say that
:17:57. > :18:00.they have removed a number of key Hamas leaders, that they have put
:18:01. > :18:04.pressure on Hamas, that they have destroyed a network of Hamas tunnel
:18:05. > :18:08.that is were making their way into Israel in a way that Israel never
:18:09. > :18:13.really realised before. Some would blame a failure of intelligence for
:18:14. > :18:17.that. What have Hamas achieved? 2,000 people plus have died here,
:18:18. > :18:22.most of them civilians, many women and children. But Hamas has gained a
:18:23. > :18:26.relevance again, people are suddenly talking about Gaza and their cause
:18:27. > :18:31.in way that they weren't, certainly internationally they are. And among
:18:32. > :18:35.Palestinians a group that was perhaps by some seen as being
:18:36. > :18:40.increase league irrelevant after moving into a dial with the
:18:41. > :18:45.Palestinian Authority for a unity Government, Hamas which is a body by
:18:46. > :18:48.supports an armed struggle has shown it can still take the fight to
:18:49. > :18:53.Israel and it can still be left standing at the end of that fight.
:18:54. > :19:05.The handshakes could hardly have been more awkward when Vladimir
:19:06. > :19:10.Putin and Petro. Poroshenko met to try to sort things out today. Russia
:19:11. > :19:15.flexing its muscles more than local difficulty, if the rest of the world
:19:16. > :19:19.want to intervene if Russia stretches further would we be strong
:19:20. > :19:23.enough to do so. One of the most senior men on the continent, Richard
:19:24. > :19:32.Sheriff former deputy supreme commander at NATO thinks not. We
:19:33. > :19:37.have been talking to him. Ukraine has put on show detainees who are
:19:38. > :19:40.members of a Russia paratroop regiment. Moscow admits they crossed
:19:41. > :19:46.the border but says it was an accident. It is one more sign of a
:19:47. > :19:52.desire to intimidate Ukraine, says the general who until recently was
:19:53. > :19:57.NATO's number two and who, as the crisis in eastern European unfolded,
:19:58. > :20:07.saw gaps between receipt and taking concrete steps. P the issue is how
:20:08. > :20:12.do they have the forces required. There is a mismatch between the
:20:13. > :20:14.rhetoric around the North Atlantic Council table about commitment to
:20:15. > :20:20.operations and what nations are prepared to put on the table. As far
:20:21. > :20:25.as the potential crisis or the crisis in Eastern Europe and eastern
:20:26. > :20:29.Ukraine, I think the reality is that NATO would be very hard pressed and
:20:30. > :20:35.they would find it very difficult to put into the field at sea or into
:20:36. > :20:39.the air the means required to, particularly on land I would assess,
:20:40. > :20:43.to counter any form of Russian adventurism. Does that mean that
:20:44. > :20:48.western Europe is essentially defenceless against Russia? It means
:20:49. > :20:53.that well now you are getting into the whole question about Europe and
:20:54. > :21:01.America. Certainly Europe, western Europe would not be able to defend
:21:02. > :21:04.against, in my view, against Russia without significant support from the
:21:05. > :21:08.Americans. I think NATO would find it really difficult to get a
:21:09. > :21:14.division out of the door in quick time. That is 20,000? 20,000 people
:21:15. > :21:18.out of the door in quick time. Because effectively and certainly in
:21:19. > :21:24.western Europe what we have seen progressively is a dismantling of
:21:25. > :21:27.military capability. Do you appreciate that effectively saying
:21:28. > :21:33.NATO needs to rearm, which is what I think you are saying, is a very
:21:34. > :21:37.unpopular message in this time of economic stringency? I have no doubt
:21:38. > :21:42.it is an unpopular message, but it is a message that our political
:21:43. > :21:47.leadership need to take home and listen to and act on. If they are
:21:48. > :21:55.serious about ensuring that NATO has the means to defend itself in
:21:56. > :22:00.future. If you look across the NATO alliance, only four nations out of
:22:01. > :22:04.28 spend more than the minimum of 2% on GDP that all 28 nations have
:22:05. > :22:09.signed up to around the North Atlantic Council table. So you have
:22:10. > :22:15.got significant economic powerhouses within the alliance who spend well
:22:16. > :22:18.below the 2% of GDP on defence. If NATO is serious about this, it is
:22:19. > :22:21.going to have to rearm, it is going to have to rebuild capability.
:22:22. > :22:26.European nations are going to have to put their money in their pocket,
:22:27. > :22:33.put their hands in their pockets to spend more money on defence.
:22:34. > :22:38.But Libya where NATO helped topple Colonel Gadaffi shows the risk of
:22:39. > :22:44.taking action. In recent days Tripoli Airport has been largely
:22:45. > :22:53.destroyed by rival militias has there is warring in the country.
:22:54. > :22:58.What responsibility does it bear for the subsequent mess? NATO was asked
:22:59. > :23:02.to protect and it did the job effectively. When that campaign came
:23:03. > :23:08.to an end, the air campaign came to the end with the murder of Gadaffi
:23:09. > :23:13.and the collapse of the regime, NATO stood by, had done the contingency
:23:14. > :23:17.planning necessary to go in and support the Libyan, whatever Libyan
:23:18. > :23:22.Government emerged from that aI don'ts, if -- chaos, if it was he
:23:23. > :23:27.required, the message was no he requirement, no desire for any form
:23:28. > :23:32.of foreign intervention, so NATO stands back. The resulting chaos is
:23:33. > :23:35.plain and evident for all to see. This is one of the realities of the
:23:36. > :23:39.strategic context we see at the moment.
:23:40. > :23:42.The desire to protect vulnerable minorities in northern Iraq now
:23:43. > :23:49.plays its part in a new intervention. The Jihadists of ISIS,
:23:50. > :23:53.now calling themselves the Islamic State, have beheaded and massacred
:23:54. > :23:58.Iraqis and Syrians alike. How far should the UK follow America's lead
:23:59. > :24:02.and what should the objective be? I think the first priority is to
:24:03. > :24:08.protect, but ultimately the priority must be to eradicate Islamic State,
:24:09. > :24:12.as an external threat, because of the potential impact on the Middle
:24:13. > :24:18.East, on our friends in the Middle East, but also its potential impact
:24:19. > :24:23.if this incubus is allowed to survive, the potential impact on our
:24:24. > :24:27.security on our external security, whether it is through the import of
:24:28. > :24:31.terrorism whatever, but also there is a very clear issue as far as the
:24:32. > :24:39.internal security is concerned, given the number of British and
:24:40. > :24:44.other western borders. UK? It is not just a British problem but one that
:24:45. > :24:50.applies right across western Europe. Does that mean that US, UK end up
:24:51. > :25:00.fighting Islamic State in Syria? Being effectively on the same side
:25:01. > :25:04.Ascarate sad? -- as Assad? There can be no eradication of Islamic State
:25:05. > :25:08.without a regional approach. They are operating and have spread into
:25:09. > :25:12.Syria and therefore there is likely to be or inevitably going to be a
:25:13. > :25:17.need to sit down and talk to difficult bed fellow, bad people.
:25:18. > :25:22.The Prime Minister has been very direct in saying that the Islamic
:25:23. > :25:26.State has to be counted, has to be -- countered and has to be reversed
:25:27. > :25:30.and ultimately defeated. How achievable is that? It is one thing
:25:31. > :25:35.to say that we are going to deal with t but you have to back up your
:25:36. > :25:40.words with actions. And in my view we should therefore rule out nothing
:25:41. > :25:45.and going back to what the Prime Minister has said, ruling out combat
:25:46. > :25:51.boots, or boots on the ground and saying as he did in the paper the
:25:52. > :25:55.other day we don't want to fight, is immediately giving your opposition
:25:56. > :26:00.15 or 30 points up at the beginning of the match. I think we must apply
:26:01. > :26:06.all the levers of power, political, diplomatic, economic and military.
:26:07. > :26:10.But above all we need to establish the international political will to
:26:11. > :26:17.deal with this, and of course in the NATO summit coming up there is a
:26:18. > :26:21.real opportunity. Just in case you were thinking or
:26:22. > :26:25.hoping you had a few more days peace and quiet from MPs before the poor
:26:26. > :26:30.dears have to come back from holidays, today was a big day for
:26:31. > :26:33.two wannabes you have heard of. Boris Johnson gave away the worst
:26:34. > :26:39.kept secret in politics, he wants to stand as an MP in the west London
:26:40. > :26:44.constituency of Uxbridge and West Ruislip, and the other UK politician
:26:45. > :26:50.recoginsable by only his first name went a step further. Nigel Farage,
:26:51. > :26:54.the UKIP leader was chosen as his party's candidate for Thanet south
:26:55. > :27:00.in Kent. We went along to witness the celebrations.
:27:01. > :27:05.Mr Nigel Farage. This was always going to be more of an inauguration
:27:06. > :27:10.than a selection process. The press were invited to film the Hustings in
:27:11. > :27:15.South Thanet, a good sign the result was never in doubt. The race here is
:27:16. > :27:19.now shaping up to be the most interesting battle of the next
:27:20. > :27:25.general election. South Thanet is prime UKIP territory. I was a four
:27:26. > :27:29.handicap golfer and there were lots of golf courses here, and another
:27:30. > :27:33.one of my hobbies, there is quite a lot of pubs I notice. When it is
:27:34. > :27:37.clear you can see France from the beach here in Ramsgate, not today in
:27:38. > :27:44.this weather. It might just be 30 miles away, but Europe and
:27:45. > :27:49.immigration are worries here, as a wider concerns about jobs and the
:27:50. > :27:53.economy. At the cafe works Miriam, a UKIP voter in the past and the kind
:27:54. > :28:00.of supporter Nigel Farage will be banking on come May. Looking at the
:28:01. > :28:03.party's policies what attracts you to the policies? Sorting out
:28:04. > :28:10.immigration because it is way out of hand. I think somebody needs to rein
:28:11. > :28:16.it in and do something about it. I like Nigel Farage. I think he's an
:28:17. > :28:21.OK bloke. He doesn't deserve to have eggs thrown at him! Over the last 30
:28:22. > :28:27.years South Thanet has blown with the political wind, Labour in 1997
:28:28. > :28:31.backed a Conservative in 2010. But reporters at the local paper say the
:28:32. > :28:37.shift to UKIP feels more than a protest vote, a poll last month put
:28:38. > :28:41.the party ahead in this seat for the first time, after big gains in local
:28:42. > :28:44.elections last year. The County Council, where they just swept in
:28:45. > :28:48.and took seven out of the eight seats was a bit of a shock,
:28:49. > :28:52.especially for the Conservatives who lost their seats. But since then
:28:53. > :28:55.they have just seemed to be going from strength-to-strength. The
:28:56. > :29:01.orthodox view is UKIP will take votes from the Tories, both in this
:29:02. > :29:04.seat and nationally as the local elections showed, Nigel Farage is
:29:05. > :29:07.more than capable of winning in Labour strongholds. Europe is an
:29:08. > :29:12.issue and people are worried about the amount of money that seems to go
:29:13. > :29:16.to Europe, but I know locally we have benefitted fatastically through
:29:17. > :29:20.European funding, particularly objective 2 ERDF and other monies.
:29:21. > :29:24.That is a hard argument to make at the moment? It is difficult to
:29:25. > :29:28.remind people of how we benefit from connections with Europe. This is not
:29:29. > :29:30.good news for you, Mr Farrage standing, this will make your job
:29:31. > :29:36.more difficult you would have thought? We will do the exact same
:29:37. > :29:40.thing we have been doing for the last a 13 months, knock on the doors
:29:41. > :29:43.and speak to people about the issues, that is what I have done all
:29:44. > :29:48.the time I have been involved in politics. You will not get down the
:29:49. > :29:52.pub with your pint straight way? No! As for the Conservatives they won't
:29:53. > :29:56.were keen to talk to us today, saying all this is a distraction
:29:57. > :30:00.from the work they are doing. The new Tory candidate, Craig McKinly is
:30:01. > :30:04.a former leader of UKIP and a man who has made no secret of his own
:30:05. > :30:10.euro-sceptic views. How are you doing, nice to meet you. You could
:30:11. > :30:13.have picked a better day than this. Mr Farrage took to the high street
:30:14. > :30:20.this afternoon, ahead of his official selection, UKIP has done
:30:21. > :30:22.well in past elections and to see that support melt away in the
:30:23. > :30:26.general election that followed. Voter concern with immigration in
:30:27. > :30:30.particular may break that pattern. A survey today puts the party's
:30:31. > :30:35.national support at more than 16%. The message he's sending out to the
:30:36. > :30:38.other parties is that they are not representing the normal people on
:30:39. > :30:42.the street, especially locally round here, I couldn't tell you what he
:30:43. > :30:45.thinks about with the hospitals and policing or anything else other than
:30:46. > :30:53.the immigration, but it has got him to where he is. He's all about the
:30:54. > :30:57.white British rather than Britain as a whole. I do agree with the fact
:30:58. > :31:00.that we need to limit how many people are coming into the country,
:31:01. > :31:04.we are a small island nation and we are getting overcrowded. Somebody
:31:05. > :31:08.once said I'm David Cameron's worst nightmare. After the European
:31:09. > :31:11.elections Nigel Farage spoke of a political earthquake, he will be
:31:12. > :31:16.hoping a result in South Thanet and other target seats will put UKIP in
:31:17. > :31:22.the heart of Westminster, changing the political landscape for good.
:31:23. > :31:27.Keen constituency watchers may have noticed that Boris Johnson will be
:31:28. > :31:36.standing in Uxbridge and south Ruislip, not West Ruislip, earlier I
:31:37. > :31:40.spoke to the new UKIP candidate for his seat in Kent just after his
:31:41. > :31:44.selection was announced. Nigel Farage, congratulations on your
:31:45. > :31:49.selection, you said you want to run in South Thanet because of the
:31:50. > :31:55.appeal of sea, angling, golf courses and the pub. What is the appeal of
:31:56. > :32:01.you to Thanet? You know I made a couple of off the cuff remarks about
:32:02. > :32:07.why I like the place, the UKIP appeal to South Thanet is it is a
:32:08. > :32:10.well organised local party. A lot of politics is on a voluntary level and
:32:11. > :32:16.we have a great voluntary group here. That room was packed with all
:32:17. > :32:21.people of all ages and enthusiasm, the key to this and the key to my
:32:22. > :32:27.candidacy is the fact that we have managed to establish here a base and
:32:28. > :32:32.foothold in local Government. Of the eight Kent County Council seats that
:32:33. > :32:36.cover the island of Thanet we won seven of them, we have won a
:32:37. > :32:41.district by-election, the whole council is up on the same day of the
:32:42. > :32:46.general election, and we will fight 56 seats. It won't just be me, it
:32:47. > :32:51.will be the local candidates, councillors and enthusiasts. That
:32:52. > :32:54.cocktail is something the Liberal Democrats proved in the 1990s that
:32:55. > :32:59.with enthusiasm and optimisim it is surprising what you can achieve. If
:33:00. > :33:04.that base is successful in achieving to attract many votes in that area,
:33:05. > :33:07.isn't it the case that what you will do is hurt the Conservative vote and
:33:08. > :33:11.they are the party promising a referendum, just as you do. You are
:33:12. > :33:15.actually going to make that referendum less likely if you
:33:16. > :33:19.succeed, aren't you? Well I think in Thanet if you are euro-sceptic and
:33:20. > :33:22.you vote Conservative, the risk is you might let Labour in. So I don't
:33:23. > :33:26.think that people will want to vote for an imitation. I think people
:33:27. > :33:29.want to vote for the real thing. We will be the challengers to the
:33:30. > :33:34.Labour Party. That's how I see this seat. I see it as a contest between
:33:35. > :33:41.Aust the Labour Party primarily, and this old fashioned outdated idea
:33:42. > :33:45.that UKIP voters are all ex-stories is baloney, we are picking up a
:33:46. > :33:52.large chunk of old Labour votes. You know very well that most of the
:33:53. > :33:57.voters who choose UKIP from time to time are ex-Conservative voters,
:33:58. > :33:59.even in that seat there the Conservative member is one of the
:34:00. > :34:04.founding members of the UKIP, you are not really going to suggest that
:34:05. > :34:11.you standing might not split the euro-sceptic vote? Let's try this
:34:12. > :34:15.again, I think that view is total and utter rubbish. We pick up a
:34:16. > :34:19.majority of votes in Thanet from people who are not Conservative
:34:20. > :34:23.voters. We pick up not just a big chunk of the old Labour vote, we
:34:24. > :34:27.also pick up a lot of people who haven't engaged in the political
:34:28. > :34:42.process for many years or in some cases never at all in their lives.
:34:43. > :34:45.We saw it in Eastly, if we hadn't taken it the Tories would have
:34:46. > :34:49.beaten the Liberal Democrats. There are seats like this where UKIP is
:34:50. > :34:54.the key challenger. If we can get the euro-sceptics to muster around
:34:55. > :34:58.UKIP, otherwise there is more of a risk that Labour will win. What
:34:59. > :35:00.happens if you don't win, and if UKIP doesn't send any MPs to
:35:01. > :35:07.Westminster at the election what will you do? I have absolutely no
:35:08. > :35:10.idea. That is eight months away. It is funny, all through my career
:35:11. > :35:14.people have said what will you do if you fail and if you don't succeed.
:35:15. > :35:18.The answer in life is to fight and stand up for what you believe in. We
:35:19. > :35:22.have really had an extraordinary year. We have won a national
:35:23. > :35:27.election in the European elections, our opinion poll ratings are holding
:35:28. > :35:31.very steady, specialist polling data from people like Lord Ashcroft now
:35:32. > :35:36.puts us ahead in some parliamentary constituencies, and I think we will
:35:37. > :35:38.succeed. I think we are going to get MPs elected to
:35:39. > :35:42.succeed. I think we are going to get year, I don't at at this stage know
:35:43. > :35:44.how many. If things go the right way for us who knows, we could hold the
:35:45. > :35:47.balance of power. Nigel Farage, thank you very much
:35:48. > :35:53.indeed. It has been a long time, a very long
:35:54. > :35:56.time, a very, very long time since she appeared on the stage.
:35:57. > :36:02.It is true, not all of you might think that is a shame. But for an
:36:03. > :36:07.ardent, passionate and considerable group the relative exile of Kate
:36:08. > :36:12.Bush, 35 years long, has been tragic. Here is a reminder of what
:36:13. > :36:15.we have been missing from Steven Smith.
:36:16. > :36:25.# I hear him # Before I go to sleep
:36:26. > :36:31.# And focus on the day that's been These days pop acts have comebacks
:36:32. > :36:35.before you notice they have gone. But Kate Bush has been missed for
:36:36. > :36:41.every one of the 35 years since her last run of concerts. What took her
:36:42. > :36:47.so long? I'm waiting to meet the man who helped to dream up her last
:36:48. > :36:59.tour, way back in 1979. I think this is him now!
:37:00. > :37:03.Thanks for dropping in. Now trading as Simon Drake's House of Magic, he
:37:04. > :37:09.remembers life on the road with Kate Bush, including the time he was
:37:10. > :37:13.knocked out cold on stage. I woke up feeling pretty strange lying on the
:37:14. > :37:17.floor in Kate's arms. She was saying please don't die. Men would pay
:37:18. > :37:21.money for that? I could have died happily then to be honest, it was
:37:22. > :37:25.such a big thing that tour at the time, it was like Beatlemania. And
:37:26. > :37:29.there were 30 people on stage and God knows how many others travelling
:37:30. > :37:34.around England and Europe. I remember sitting in a kitchen over
:37:35. > :37:37.ten years ago now and I said it would be great if you just did six
:37:38. > :37:41.nights at the festival hall, she actually said to me Simon I don't
:37:42. > :37:45.think anyone really cares any more, they don't know who I am now. I went
:37:46. > :37:50.for God's sake. She's genuinely modest. This isn't somebody faking
:37:51. > :37:53.it, she genuinely is a humble person.
:37:54. > :37:59.# If I only could # I'd make a deal with God
:38:00. > :38:02.# I'd get him to swap our places Even at the height of her success
:38:03. > :38:07.there were signs that Kate Bush could be happy with a more domestic
:38:08. > :38:12.life, where she could work on her recipes. It is what I would cook.
:38:13. > :38:17.Let's have a look at this one, this is vegtables, what sorts of
:38:18. > :38:21.vegtables are here? Carrots, mushroom, tomatoes, we did them
:38:22. > :38:26.naturally, you can even cook them in matter might, that is a good gravy
:38:27. > :38:32.substitute, and soy sauce is very good, all sorts of things.
:38:33. > :38:41.# Out on the windy moors # We roll and fall and breathe
:38:42. > :38:48.Why has her publicly waited so patiently for her? We asked the man
:38:49. > :38:58.who made her debut video, so memorable, her mime coach. Yes, for
:38:59. > :39:06.the first time on British TV it is mime on Skype! It was 1976 and it
:39:07. > :39:13.was at the dance centre in London's Covent Garden, I was teaching
:39:14. > :39:19.classes there. She came to one of the classes totally unknown, without
:39:20. > :39:25.real training, in my definition. But there was something about Kate even
:39:26. > :39:34.then as unformed as she was so many decades ago, there was a spark
:39:35. > :39:40.within her one could say that she was filled with some kind of
:39:41. > :39:47.internal light. # Oh he's here again
:39:48. > :39:58.# The man with the child in his eyes She will be here for another 21
:39:59. > :40:02.nights, only. We have whisked two very special
:40:03. > :40:06.reviewers out of the gig early and into the studio to give us a flavour
:40:07. > :40:11.of what it was like, Gemma Arterton is here as well as the musician Anna
:40:12. > :40:17.Calvi. Gemma firstly to you, what was it like what it what you
:40:18. > :40:22.expected? No. I think everybody was so excited just to see her, and when
:40:23. > :40:26.we arrived the expectation from the audience was immense. There was just
:40:27. > :40:31.so much love coming from them and so much excitement, and then she kind
:40:32. > :40:38.of launched into a typical rock sort of gig. Which wasn't what we
:40:39. > :40:42.expected? It was kind of like, OK, this is cool, but you know you
:40:43. > :40:49.expected something more and then suddenly the show went into the most
:40:50. > :40:54.crazy kind of imaginative, creative world which is what is so amazing
:40:55. > :41:00.about Kate Bush. It felt like her brain that you were inside her mind.
:41:01. > :41:05.Yeah. We have got some stills, some images of what it was like tonight
:41:06. > :41:08.that we can bring up now you say a crazy imaginative creative world,
:41:09. > :41:14.like her brain. What was that, what are we looking at on stage? So she
:41:15. > :41:21.did, in the first half she did sort of like a performance theatre, it
:41:22. > :41:30.felt like musical theatre or opera based to her ninth wave, second half
:41:31. > :41:34.of her Hounds of Love album, a ship wreck and being stranded at sea.
:41:35. > :41:38.What year was that album out? I don't know, I feel like it is the
:41:39. > :41:44.year I was born, or even maybe before I was born. But some time a
:41:45. > :41:48.long time ago. So she didn't commit that sin that musicians sometimes do
:41:49. > :41:52.of coming on, playing all the new tunes to the fans and not giving
:41:53. > :41:58.them any old hits? No, I mean there was a combination. She did Hounds of
:41:59. > :42:01.Love, she did Running up the Hill, that was a high lie. The audience
:42:02. > :42:09.stood up and there was such an energy. She did stuff from Aerial,
:42:10. > :42:12.which was released in 2005. She did a whole section on Aerial, it was
:42:13. > :42:17.stunning. One of the interesting things about this though, both of
:42:18. > :42:22.you, if I'm correct and correct me if I'm wrong weren't born the last
:42:23. > :42:25.time she performed on stage. She was an exceptional artist at the time,
:42:26. > :42:29.why do you think it is she's translated to a whole new
:42:30. > :42:34.generation, how did you become a fan in the first place? I think a friend
:42:35. > :42:38.introduced me to her music, as a single currencying I was struck at
:42:39. > :42:42.how she can really channel so many different characters. But they all
:42:43. > :42:47.feel very uniquely her, she used these characters as tools to create
:42:48. > :42:52.something incredibly personal and I think that's a very rare thing for
:42:53. > :42:58.someone to be able to do that. Gemma, what about for you? I think
:42:59. > :43:04.it was my mum and my sister, it was my mum that got me on to her. And
:43:05. > :43:10.again it was her story telling and also her inate absolute expression
:43:11. > :43:15.of feminity that was so at the time, and it wasn't a sexualised thing.
:43:16. > :43:19.She felt like your big sister or something? Yeah, and just really
:43:20. > :43:25.loving and a lot of her music, some of it is quite scary and I remember
:43:26. > :43:29.as a kid I was always scared by her stuff,
:43:30. > :43:31.as a kid I was always scared by her feminine. It is really the most
:43:32. > :43:38.original female singer I feminine. It is really the most
:43:39. > :43:42.brilliant musicians but feminine. It is really the most
:43:43. > :43:46.first one. Some people would look at that and say what you describe as
:43:47. > :43:52.being original as, in the nicest possible way, a bit bonkers? Yeah.
:43:53. > :43:54.But it is. I think she is celebrating absurdity, the absurdity
:43:55. > :43:59.of life, and she's showing the beauty in it. The things that she
:44:00. > :44:04.talk about are incredibly simple about watching the sunrise, about
:44:05. > :44:08.taking out the washing and she shows you how beautiful they are, and this
:44:09. > :44:11.is the kind of best thing about art, when it does this, when it
:44:12. > :44:15.transforms you and makes you see the simple things in a profound way. A
:44:16. > :44:20.very simple simple things in a profound way. A
:44:21. > :44:23.years on, if you think back to the extraordinary vocal performances
:44:24. > :44:23.years on, if you think back to the suppose, something like Wuthering
:44:24. > :44:27.Heighfs. Tonight how was her suppose, something like Wuthering
:44:28. > :44:31.can she still deliver the performances in the way she did?
:44:32. > :44:34.Absolutely. As the show went on it got better and better, you could
:44:35. > :44:35.feel at the beginning she was a bit nervous and everyone was rooting for
:44:36. > :44:46.her. And then as the gig nervous and everyone was rooting for
:44:47. > :44:48.like some kind of ultimate, magical family reunion? It was
:44:49. > :44:51.like some kind of ultimate, magical best shows I have ever been to.
:44:52. > :44:57.Everything about it was just, best shows I have ever been to.
:44:58. > :45:01.energy. Even if I wasn't a big Kate Bush
:45:02. > :45:03.energy. Even if I wasn't a big Kate everything about it was so high, the
:45:04. > :45:07.quality of everything was so high everything about it was so high, the
:45:08. > :45:09.that with musical, everything about it was so high, the
:45:10. > :45:14.stuff. It was like a whole everything about it was so high, the
:45:15. > :45:19.and... The detail was very unique. And her son, her son. It was family
:45:20. > :45:23.affair, what happened with her son? Her son was in the whole thing, he
:45:24. > :45:32.was there as a backing dancer and then as part of the the show. He was
:45:33. > :45:33.like an MC, he guided it, especially the Aerial
:45:34. > :45:39.like an MC, he guided it, especially in the section and he does a whole
:45:40. > :45:41.musical number. She was keeping it in the family and it was touching.
:45:42. > :45:46.She pushes the world in the family and it was touching.
:45:47. > :45:50.her to open her life to an audience. Very briefly, one of the things she
:45:51. > :45:56.did try to push away was people using their phone, whatever they
:45:57. > :46:00.had, their gadgets in their pockets and whatever they had in their
:46:01. > :46:06.pockets, did people stick to the rule? Yeah, everyone there was so
:46:07. > :46:09.appreciative of how special the night was, especially the opening
:46:10. > :46:16.night. It felt like everybody just wanted to be present. It was amazing
:46:17. > :46:20.yeah. Thank you both so much. I feel I ought to apologise for dragging
:46:21. > :46:24.you away early, we are glad you Z a quick look at the papers and there
:46:25. > :46:41.she is in front of all of them. Bush been on the front of the Guardian.
:46:42. > :47:06.That's all we have time for tonight, good night.
:47:07. > :47:09.Wednesday, places dry with sunny spells, but some outbreaks of rain
:47:10. > :47:13.heading to south-west England and South Wales. Cloud increasing with
:47:14. > :47:17.Northern Ireland, another lovely day in Scotland. Where you have the
:47:18. > :47:24.sunshine it will feel pleasantly warm. Chilly start and one or two
:47:25. > :47:26.fog patches clearing, another lovely day. A fine day in northern England,