:00:00. > :00:12.By this time just one week from now the polls in Scotland will be closed
:00:13. > :00:15.and many of the record 97% of those eligible who registered to vote will
:00:16. > :00:20.have marked their X for independence or the union. Now Scotland is place
:00:21. > :00:25.where every politician wants to be. Today a trainload of Labour MPs
:00:26. > :00:31.turned up in Glasgow to preach the goes elf Better Together by every
:00:32. > :00:37.argument possible. We will be talking to one of the yes campaign's
:00:38. > :00:44.biggest donors. I am of the view that the accused acted too hastily
:00:45. > :00:52.and used excessive force. In the second sense it is clear his conduct
:00:53. > :00:56.was negligent. Negligent but not guilty of premeditated murder. Oscar
:00:57. > :01:01.Pistorius learns his fate tomorrow. How will South Africa respond.
:01:02. > :01:04.I made it clear we will hunt down terrorists that threaten our
:01:05. > :01:09.country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take
:01:10. > :01:13.action against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. A new campaign of bombing
:01:14. > :01:17.against the Islamic State wherever they may be. We will ask the Syrian
:01:18. > :01:21.Government what they think of that, and hear from the world's most
:01:22. > :01:27.famous diplomat, Henry Kissinger. This man beat terrifying odds to
:01:28. > :01:34.beat the Ebola virus, thousands didn't, how did he do it and why is
:01:35. > :01:39.he going back? Good evening, the day began with
:01:40. > :01:42.claims and counter claims over the importance of two banks RBS and
:01:43. > :01:47.Lloyd's considering moving their legal homes to London in the event
:01:48. > :01:51.of a yes vote. RBS themselves said it would mean neither job cuts nor
:01:52. > :01:54.move operations away or affect the day-to-day business. Lloyd's already
:01:55. > :01:59.has its physical headquarters in England. The real excitement was the
:02:00. > :02:04.concept of a political day trip to Scotland. Not normally a highlight
:02:05. > :02:08.for MPs of all stripes and types in September. Our political editor
:02:09. > :02:10.boarded the Hogwarts Express, not from platform nine and
:02:11. > :02:19.three-quarters at kings correction but at Euston. One week left and it
:02:20. > :02:26.is the flying Labour Party, the Shadow Cabinet boards the 7. 30 to
:02:27. > :02:30.Glasgow. Not the 100 MPs touted before, but a sizeable number. These
:02:31. > :02:36.Labour politicians know they need to get out the pro-union vote. Andy
:02:37. > :02:39.Burnham does Labour understand Scotland? We are Scotland, that is
:02:40. > :02:45.our roots, that is where we are from in terms of my own background in the
:02:46. > :02:52.North West. The SNP has beaten you back recently? Of course, that is
:02:53. > :02:55.our heritage, our roots it is DNA, so that's, we have been coming up
:02:56. > :02:59.and down and giving our all in this campaign. And today the Labour
:03:00. > :03:04.family comes together from all over Britain to say stay with us. Labour
:03:05. > :03:08.is in trouble from union supporters for allowing the no camp's lead in
:03:09. > :03:11.the polls to shrink. They know they are not as popular as they once
:03:12. > :03:15.were. Why no balloons on the train?
:03:16. > :03:19.Haven't we got any, I'm disappointing. We have eggs, we are
:03:20. > :03:22.anticipating getting eggs, we have a few to launch back.
:03:23. > :03:27.They are also getting flack for staying party political. Even though
:03:28. > :03:31.the Prime Minister fronted up Tory unpopularity in Scotland yesterday,
:03:32. > :03:35.those aboard the Labour locomotive still refuse to stand
:03:36. > :03:40.shoulder-to-shoulder with him. Cameron's thing about the "effing
:03:41. > :03:42.Tories" we willing returning to that.
:03:43. > :03:49.What do you mean about that? That is what a lot of people think about
:03:50. > :03:54.them. Cameron has hugged hoodies and huskies, he has never hugged anyone
:03:55. > :04:00.from north of the border, they are the opposite of "one-nation".
:04:01. > :04:05.Scotland says no! Labour's luminaries arrived into a tense
:04:06. > :04:09.Scotland. Overnight the BBC reported that the Royal Bank of Scotland
:04:10. > :04:12.would relocate its registered headquarters to London in event of
:04:13. > :04:16.the yes vote. It was confirmed by RBS this morning, but Alex Salmond
:04:17. > :04:20.was furious and he wrote to Cabinet Secretary demanding an inquiry. This
:04:21. > :04:24.evening this appeal was rejected. I know that the BBC will want to
:04:25. > :04:28.co-operate with the inevitable investigation by the Cabinet
:04:29. > :04:33.Secretary into the briefing of this information. Given the briefing of
:04:34. > :04:38.information, even if we weren't in a referendum campaign, even if there
:04:39. > :04:42.weren't rules that are meant to apply to Government. The leaking of
:04:43. > :04:46.market information is as serious a matter as you can possibly get. RBS
:04:47. > :04:51.said later no jobs would be lost, but other companies made similar
:04:52. > :04:56.noise, Lloyd's, Clydesdale, TSB and Tesco Bank. John Lewis, Waitrose and
:04:57. > :05:04.Asda today said prices might go up in the event of a yes vote. But the
:05:05. > :05:10.SNP believes the Westminster coalition pressured these groups to
:05:11. > :05:14.back the Better Together. Aberdeen Asset Manager said today an
:05:15. > :05:17.independent Scotland would be a success.
:05:18. > :05:22.Better Together think they have their act to go for three reasons,
:05:23. > :05:26.more powers to be handed over to Scotland, secondly to protect the
:05:27. > :05:30.NHS in Scotland, the third is the decision of companies to leave
:05:31. > :05:33.Scotland. Neither camp is resting on their laurels. The will of the
:05:34. > :05:37.people one week from today, I believe will be the to restored this
:05:38. > :05:41.rich ancient nation the opportunity once again to take its responsible
:05:42. > :05:48.place in the community of nations. This is it. The moment to believe.
:05:49. > :05:56.The moment to win. Thank you very much. Tomorrow UKIP arrived to
:05:57. > :06:01.campaign for the union. The SNP hit Scotland's seven cities and we have
:06:02. > :06:06.reached the seven-day countdown. In Dundee is coat founder and
:06:07. > :06:12.chairman of the Stagecoach group Sir Bryan Souter. Good evening. First of
:06:13. > :06:22.all we have heard that John Lewis partnership, including Waitrose,
:06:23. > :06:25.also Asda, following on from the Kingfisher Group have all said
:06:26. > :06:28.prices will rise if there is a yes vote. You can't say to people they
:06:29. > :06:32.won't be worse off? Well, I think you have to look at why they are
:06:33. > :06:36.coming out and saying this. They are not saying prices are going to rise,
:06:37. > :06:40.they are pointing out that if there is not certainty about currency
:06:41. > :06:45.union and if costs were to rise in Scotland, these costs would have to
:06:46. > :06:50.be passed on to their customers. Of course I don't see any reason why
:06:51. > :06:55.any of these things should happen. The most interesting revelation
:06:56. > :07:00.today was Robert Peston who is telling us that basically Number Ten
:07:01. > :07:06.are coraling and co-ordinating this campaign at the moment. And I just
:07:07. > :07:10.think in Scotland it is seen as more bullying for the big boys. When you
:07:11. > :07:14.have somebody who has credibility to keep hold of, like John Lewis
:07:15. > :07:17.Partnership, they wouldn't say that likely, it is hardly likely they
:07:18. > :07:21.will be bullied into something that is not the correct thing to say as a
:07:22. > :07:24.business. At the moment any way they say in way they subsidise products
:07:25. > :07:32.in Scotland by the rest of the UK operation. You don't really think
:07:33. > :07:34.that serious people would really stretch the credibility of their
:07:35. > :07:38.shareholders by saying something that is not true. They said prices
:07:39. > :07:40.might rise in the event of independence. Again I say the
:07:41. > :07:46.trouble is you cannot tell people in Scotland they won't be worse off?
:07:47. > :07:49.No. And I think the emphasis is here on what they said. They said prices
:07:50. > :07:56."might" rise. They didn't say on what they said. They said prices
:07:57. > :08:01.might drop and they could have? No, but of course the prices could drop
:08:02. > :08:10.if the Government in Scotland creates the right environment and I
:08:11. > :08:12.look at the tax incentives that we have already suggested with
:08:13. > :08:16.corporation tax. The other incentives for companies, financial
:08:17. > :08:19.services we could reinstate the tax credit which undermined all our
:08:20. > :08:24.pension funds and attract more pension funds to locate in
:08:25. > :08:27.Edinburgh. We could introduce tax regimes for the oil companies to
:08:28. > :08:31.encourage them to do more exploration. You could do all these
:08:32. > :08:34.things, you are absolutely right, but we don't know whether or not in
:08:35. > :08:37.the event of independence all these things will happen. Instead the
:08:38. > :08:41.situation might be under independence that you have at least
:08:42. > :08:44.18 months, perhaps two years or more in which as an unstable environment,
:08:45. > :08:48.so therefore it would be most unlikely that companies would come
:08:49. > :08:51.to invest in Scotland, set up businesses without knowing what
:08:52. > :08:57.regime. You could not expect companies to do it in the dark and
:08:58. > :09:02.therefore Scotland would lose investment? I don't accept that,
:09:03. > :09:06.because I think companies look at all of the uncertainties and they
:09:07. > :09:11.have to make assessments and as I understand it people are actually
:09:12. > :09:14.more concerned about an exit from Europe than what they are about
:09:15. > :09:19.independence. I think companies have to have these conversations and they
:09:20. > :09:23.have to look at the risks for shareholders and that is fair enough
:09:24. > :09:28.that they should do THACHLT think when you read the -- when you read
:09:29. > :09:33.the statements clearly, they are reasonable statements. And during
:09:34. > :09:36.the 18-month period it would be in everyone's interest to settle the
:09:37. > :09:39.currency union issue quickly, that is the main issue people are
:09:40. > :09:46.unsettled about. In that case, Bryan Souter, can you tell me the name of
:09:47. > :09:51.a single company who now, with the uncertainty is saying in the event
:09:52. > :09:54.of an independent country they would move to Scotland for the first time.
:09:55. > :09:59.The problem is there are no companies saying that? We found that
:10:00. > :10:03.most of our growth comes from small and medium-sized companies, that is
:10:04. > :10:06.where most of the support for independence comes from. We have had
:10:07. > :10:09.a very good record in Scotland over the last few years of attracting
:10:10. > :10:14.inward investment. In the last few months there has been no sign of
:10:15. > :10:18.that tailing off. I don't have access to the exact numbers in this,
:10:19. > :10:23.but the Scottish Government have the numbers on this, and I have heard
:10:24. > :10:26.that quoted recently. There is no sign at the moment. If there is a
:10:27. > :10:30.period of 18-months negotiation, I think the biggest issue that comes
:10:31. > :10:34.out of that is this issue about the currency. And the reason why
:10:35. > :10:37.sterling is so unsettled at the moment is because the unionist
:10:38. > :10:47.position is creating a situation where international investors are
:10:48. > :10:50.very concerned that the oil and gas and whiskey exports would drop from
:10:51. > :10:54.the balance of payments. There is nothing to do about that uncertainty
:10:55. > :10:57.because you are in a position to deliver anything, it would be a
:10:58. > :11:02.process of negotiation. Where there is some certainty is both RBS and
:11:03. > :11:05.Lloyd's have said their legal headquarters and Lloyd's is already,
:11:06. > :11:08.would be in England. Therefore people know the share price has gone
:11:09. > :11:12.up on the basis of that today because people know where they
:11:13. > :11:15.stand, and they know deposits legally in England would be
:11:16. > :11:29.guaranteed. That is a certainty you can't offer? Once the negotiations
:11:30. > :11:32.are through we can offer that certainty. But the union also has
:11:33. > :11:36.great deal of uncertainty for people. We have no idea whether the
:11:37. > :11:40.Barnet formula will continue, we have no idea whether we will be in
:11:41. > :11:44.Europe with an in-out referendum. These uncertainties have to be
:11:45. > :11:48.balanced up, and actually I believe that during that negotiation period,
:11:49. > :11:51.if we get the yes vote, and we get the mandate that we need, we could
:11:52. > :11:57.settle most of these issues very, very quickly and it would be in
:11:58. > :12:01.everyone's interest to do so. It affects both Scotland and the UK. It
:12:02. > :12:05.would also perhaps be in your interest because you run one of the
:12:06. > :12:11.United Kingdom's largest transport groups for bus travel particularly.
:12:12. > :12:15.A lot of your employees and business is in England. David Cameron was
:12:16. > :12:18.very misty-eyed at the thought of losing Scotland, surely you have a
:12:19. > :12:24.huge loyalty and affection for your business in England. It wouldn't
:12:25. > :12:28.feel the same, would it? Well, I have enormous affection for any
:12:29. > :12:32.country where I'm making a good living, and I'm invested in many
:12:33. > :12:37.different countries. Of course we're not going to be separated at all,
:12:38. > :12:41.we're going to be as in the European Union, most of the customers of the
:12:42. > :12:46.companies in Holland are in other parts of the European Union. So this
:12:47. > :12:50.really is not really an argument in my view. Most of our customers are
:12:51. > :12:54.in other countries, we are a very small country any way and we have
:12:55. > :13:01.got customers in America, and just be clear that I'm on this programme
:13:02. > :13:04.in my role as Souter Investments Chairman, not the Chairman of
:13:05. > :13:08.Stagecoach, but I make the point that most of the companies in
:13:09. > :13:11.Scotland and internationally have wide bases of customers. I don't
:13:12. > :13:14.think these arguments really make much difference. In the past few
:13:15. > :13:17.minutes a new poll has been published and our chief
:13:18. > :13:23.correspondent is in Edinburgh tonight with the news. What is the
:13:24. > :13:25.poll saying? Of course you can't judge this whole complicated
:13:26. > :13:30.volatile situation based on one poll, but there is new significant
:13:31. > :13:36.numbers tonight. In part because the YouGov poll out tonight, which puts
:13:37. > :13:40."no" back ahead at 52% to 48 from the yes campaign has been conducted
:13:41. > :13:44.by the same company that at the weekend produced the same poll that
:13:45. > :13:48.stunned Westminster into action by putting yes in the lead for the
:13:49. > :13:51.first time. There are a couple of interesting things happening
:13:52. > :13:57.underneath the top layer. The female votes, which the yes campaign still
:13:58. > :14:02.has to persuade, in fact support for their arguments appears to be on the
:14:03. > :14:06.slide. And secondly, the number of undecided voters appears to have
:14:07. > :14:11.gone down to just 4%, really on the way down. Now, for Better Together,
:14:12. > :14:15.perhaps for them this will feel that their economic arguments about risks
:14:16. > :14:19.that they suggest appear to be finding more and more resonance. Of
:14:20. > :14:23.course that has been echoed by the interventions of company bosses in
:14:24. > :14:26.the last couple of days. At the same time though it has emerged that some
:14:27. > :14:31.of those bosses met David Cameron in the last 24 hours to discuss this
:14:32. > :14:34.issue. And for the nationalist side, well that gives fuel to the argument
:14:35. > :14:38.that Westminster is pulling the strings. By the same token two of
:14:39. > :14:44.the chief executives who have spoken out in the last couple of days have
:14:45. > :14:48.expressed to me in the last year exactly that view but privately. It
:14:49. > :14:53.is only now with seven days they are now willing to go public. As we said
:14:54. > :14:59.the cavalry rode to Scotland on the rails, but the general is already in
:15:00. > :15:04.the country. You spoke to him today? Everywhere you go now, everyone you
:15:05. > :15:09.speak to, this is intense, it is very, very fluid and things have
:15:10. > :15:15.been difficult for both campaign, apart from anything else it has been
:15:16. > :15:18.going on for two years. But a hardened political campaigner said
:15:19. > :15:22.this was like nothing they had seen before, it feels like a war. For the
:15:23. > :15:24.man who has been leading the campaign for better by-election the
:15:25. > :15:32.former Chancellor, Alistair Darling, it has been long, it has been tense
:15:33. > :15:36.and time is running out. There are seven days to go now, the
:15:37. > :15:39.advantage was yours for more than two years, it appears to have been
:15:40. > :15:43.squadered, how did you allow that to happen? I always said the polls
:15:44. > :15:47.would narrow, a year or two people said it was a foregone conclusion, I
:15:48. > :15:52.said no it won't be. The reason for that is this decision is so
:15:53. > :15:55.momentous for Scotland. If we decide to leave the UK it is not like a
:15:56. > :15:58.general election where you can kick the Government of the day out or
:15:59. > :16:01.kick them in the teeth if that is what you want to do. If we decide to
:16:02. > :16:05.leave it is forever. There is no going back. It is not surprising
:16:06. > :16:09.given the magnitude of that decision that you are getting people, even at
:16:10. > :16:12.this stage of the week to go who are still agonising between the
:16:13. > :16:16.arguments of the heart and head. But I think we will win. I'm confident
:16:17. > :16:19.we will win. But your former colleague, Gordon Brown, clearly
:16:20. > :16:23.felt that the situation was so perilous for your side of the
:16:24. > :16:27.argument that he had no choice but to step in. Almost unilaterally it
:16:28. > :16:33.seems? Gordon has been speaking for us for over a year now. But in
:16:34. > :16:36.relation to the more powers for the Scottish Parliament which the party
:16:37. > :16:40.has set out their actual proposals some time ago, I have been asking on
:16:41. > :16:43.numerous occasions how do you bring things together to make sure you
:16:44. > :16:47.have a precise single set of proposals, what is the timetable,
:16:48. > :16:51.and yet we have announced that. What I would say to you is this, for most
:16:52. > :16:55.people in Scotland and if you look at the poll published today, what
:16:56. > :16:59.they are more interested in is what would this mean, rather than the
:17:00. > :17:04.process. In terms of the campaign, the lead was yours to hold on to,
:17:05. > :17:08.and it was slipping away, and your former colleague, Gordon Brown,
:17:09. > :17:12.clearly felt he had no choice but to step in, even David Cameron and the
:17:13. > :17:16.Westminster leaders feel they have had to step in? Both Both Gordon
:17:17. > :17:20.Brown and the leaders of the parties have been campaigning for several
:17:21. > :17:24.months now actually. It doesn't look like it to many people, these
:17:25. > :17:30.interventions in the last ten days of the campaign, doesn't it look
:17:31. > :17:33.rather desperate and panicked? In any election campaign and
:17:34. > :17:38.referendums are pretty rare, it is not surprising that activity gets
:17:39. > :17:43.ramped up as you get towards the actual polling day. I know from you
:17:44. > :17:47.know meeting people, being out on the streets the level of interest in
:17:48. > :17:51.Scotland and in this campaign is immense. The tension, the arguments
:17:52. > :17:56.I have never seen anything like it in the last 30 years. Do you see the
:17:57. > :17:59.strategy in the last few days from David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed
:18:00. > :18:04.Miliband as having been patronising? No I don't. I think there is nothing
:18:05. > :18:08.wrong with people outside the UK expressing their views. Come on, the
:18:09. > :18:13.other side have got American actors, or actors living in America
:18:14. > :18:17.expressing their views. There is nothing wrong with people not living
:18:18. > :18:21.in Scotland expressing a view. The most important thing to remember is
:18:22. > :18:24.those in Scotland have the vote. And people are focussing on what this
:18:25. > :18:29.means to them rather than on particular politician Is think. But
:18:30. > :18:33.many voters we have spoken to have felt it is patronising for people to
:18:34. > :18:38.jump on a plane from London and come up at the very last minute. Is it a
:18:39. > :18:41.problem you don't see that? You will find people, especially people who
:18:42. > :18:45.take the opposite view to me, nationalist who will say that, you
:18:46. > :18:48.will also find if they hadn't come up the same nationalists would have
:18:49. > :18:52.said actually isn't it terrible they are not coming up. Frankly though, I
:18:53. > :18:56.think most people in Scotland will look at that sort of political
:18:57. > :19:01.squabbling and say, come on, it is more important than that. But you
:19:02. > :19:06.have staked this campaign on economic potential, potential
:19:07. > :19:09.economic risks, was it wrong to gamble that voters wouldn't believe
:19:10. > :19:14.Alex Salmond on the economy. Because clearly people do believe him, and
:19:15. > :19:20.frankly some people have had enough of the economic arguments against
:19:21. > :19:25.that you put forward? My argument has been based, yes on the brass
:19:26. > :19:29.tacks, if you like. And that matters because it matters our ability to
:19:30. > :19:33.generate jobs, to generate employment, wealth, to pay for the
:19:34. > :19:38.health service. It is also an emotional argument as well. In the
:19:39. > :19:42.last few days you have seen Alex Salmond, you know, it is really
:19:43. > :19:45.unpleasant stuff that some how he represents Scotland and the rest of
:19:46. > :19:50.us and those of us who oppose him, some how we are not entitled to have
:19:51. > :19:53.our say. I'm proud to be Scottish, I'm also proud to be British as
:19:54. > :19:57.well. I don't see why he should force me to choose between the two.
:19:58. > :20:01.The emotional argument is just as strong as the economic argument, but
:20:02. > :20:04.bread and butter, brass tacks, they matter to people as well. But that
:20:05. > :20:09.is not the perception that many voters have had, and that suggests,
:20:10. > :20:12.surely, that there have been mistakes in this campaign, and what
:20:13. > :20:17.has come across is the issue of what is on the balance sheet not what is
:20:18. > :20:24.in people's guts? If you take a decision to live with someone or get
:20:25. > :20:27.married or where you live, if you had done the sums on the emotional
:20:28. > :20:33.side you wouldn't do that, no thanks to that. What we have heard time and
:20:34. > :20:35.again in the last few days is people want something different, they want
:20:36. > :20:40.something else, and many voters in Scotland have come to see the yes
:20:41. > :20:49.campaign as the one who is hold out the offer of a fairer country of
:20:50. > :20:53.social justice. Labour, traditionally started in this
:20:54. > :20:58.country, and began that argument? The SNP Government in Edinburgh has
:20:59. > :21:02.cut 130,000 college place, 90,000 of them would have gone to young women,
:21:03. > :21:05.most of these people going to the college, young students come from
:21:06. > :21:09.backgrounds where they don't have the qualification, they need the
:21:10. > :21:13.skills to get on. They have taken a billion pounds out of their
:21:14. > :21:16.antipoverty programme, don't tell me that is progressive socialism or
:21:17. > :21:21.anything like it. It is a completely different thing. There are
:21:22. > :21:25.significant swathes of voters in Scotland who believe the other side
:21:26. > :21:28.offers more social justice. They are beating you at your own game? But
:21:29. > :21:34.they are not. And again if you look at what they do, rather than what
:21:35. > :21:39.they say, the picture is rather different. There is a lot of Labour
:21:40. > :21:43.voters who are looking and asking themselves what is best, most every
:21:44. > :21:48.type of voter won't change, but I think we can deliver change within
:21:49. > :21:53.months. You say there could be change within months, why did it
:21:54. > :21:58.take so long for your side to offer a timetable for extra powers for
:21:59. > :22:02.Scotland? Look, we have offered a timetable, and frankly, most people
:22:03. > :22:06.are less concerned about process and all that, but rather... This calm
:22:07. > :22:10.mains been going for two years, more than that, and it wasn't until ten
:22:11. > :22:17.days before the vote, suddenly there is a timetable? There is a timetable
:22:18. > :22:20.that shows how we can implement the legislation to strengthen the
:22:21. > :22:24.Scottish Parliament. We are now seven days before polling day and I
:22:25. > :22:28.don't know what money we will be using, what currency we will be
:22:29. > :22:31.using, I don't know who will pay pensions in Scotland. I don't know
:22:32. > :22:35.how well fare will work. Would it have been better if this timetable
:22:36. > :22:40.for extra powers, that change you are now promising, had been coming
:22:41. > :22:47.up much earlier in the campaign? I think actually if you look, the
:22:48. > :22:50.thing that we need to explain is the extra powers that will come, which
:22:51. > :22:55.we have been doing, and the timetable actually has helped us do
:22:56. > :22:59.that. Regardless what happens, do you believe that we are heading for
:23:00. > :23:04.some kind of constitutional crisis, or breakdown? If Scotland votes to
:23:05. > :23:07.go next week that's it. There is no question it will become independent.
:23:08. > :23:12.There is no question of it, there is no second chance if you like. And of
:23:13. > :23:17.course that will have profound implications for the rest of the UK
:23:18. > :23:21.as well. If the vote is no, ought England to get the extra powers
:23:22. > :23:27.Scotland will get? There is a big issue in England if you look at
:23:28. > :23:31.particularly cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, they
:23:32. > :23:34.in my view need more powers to try to shift some of the economic
:23:35. > :23:37.balance to the northern part of England way from the south-east. You
:23:38. > :23:42.do believe then that other parts of the UK should get the same kind of
:23:43. > :23:46.extra powers too? Well, look up to a point in the sense that the law in
:23:47. > :23:50.Scotland is different. The education system is different, and you know
:23:51. > :23:54.health has always been organised differently, that is not the case in
:23:55. > :23:58.different parts of England. Next Friday morning f yes win, would you
:23:59. > :24:01.be willing to be part of Alex Salmond's negotiating team? He keeps
:24:02. > :24:07.going on about this, Alex Salmond and team work, come on. But would
:24:08. > :24:11.you be willing to do it? I'm Scottish, I'm staying here, I'm
:24:12. > :24:17.democrat, I will abide by the result. But, you know, if you look
:24:18. > :24:21.at his prospectus, some of the stuff he's arguing in the White Paper,
:24:22. > :24:24.some of it just doesn't stack up. You must have considered how would
:24:25. > :24:27.you feel about living in an independent Scotland with Alex
:24:28. > :24:33.Salmond as the leader of the country? You know if Scotland became
:24:34. > :24:36.independent presumably we would have elections like everybody else and
:24:37. > :24:40.decide which party was going to do that. What I'm more worried about
:24:41. > :24:42.now in a way I wasn't six months ago is how to bring together the
:24:43. > :24:48.divisions in Scotland at the moment. When I hear Alex Salmond saying
:24:49. > :24:53.yesterday, he was going on about Team Scotland, what he's saying in
:24:54. > :24:56.an undertone that those of you not with me are doing something wrong.
:24:57. > :25:01.That is offensive stuff. Both sides of the argument hold passionate
:25:02. > :25:07.views on the country, all of us are as Scottish as it is desperately
:25:08. > :25:12.keen to sort out our country. I have not seen tensions like this in 30
:25:13. > :25:16.years of campaigning. When I find people who are frightened to speak
:25:17. > :25:20.out and put posters up, we don't want to live in a country like that.
:25:21. > :25:24.On the 19th there is a lot of healing to be done. This has been
:25:25. > :25:30.fierce and deeply personal, probably for every single Scott. But what
:25:31. > :25:37.kind of toll has it taken on you? I volunteered to do this. Are you
:25:38. > :25:40.still glad you did? Yes, I am. I would never have forgiven myself to
:25:41. > :25:43.sit on the sidelines and hope somebody else would do it. This is
:25:44. > :25:49.an argument we need to settle in Scotland, and we will in just over
:25:50. > :25:53.six days time. Oscar Pistorius has been cleared of the murder of his
:25:54. > :25:58.girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, however, he still faces the
:25:59. > :26:01.possibility of a number of years in prison for cupable homicide, the
:26:02. > :26:05.South African equivalent of manslaughter, with a maximum 15-year
:26:06. > :26:08.sentence on the table. The trial has been noted for black woman judging a
:26:09. > :26:13.white man without a jury, in front of the glare of the entire South
:26:14. > :26:17.Africa nation. How much is the trial a mirror of South African society,
:26:18. > :26:22.and how far has it come since apartheid.
:26:23. > :26:26.Oscar Pistorius was a star, one of South Africa's biggest and most
:26:27. > :26:32.severed athletes. He changed the image of the Paralympics, and
:26:33. > :26:36.becamen the first amputee runner to compete in an Olympic Games. I train
:26:37. > :26:40.harder than any of the other guys do, I put in more hours, I eat
:26:41. > :26:43.better, sleep better and rest better, I'm more diligent and train
:26:44. > :26:47.better than other guys. The image was completed with his glamorous
:26:48. > :26:51.model girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. But on Valentine's Day last year he
:26:52. > :26:57.killed her, firing four shots through a bathroom door at his home
:26:58. > :27:01.in Pretoria. There is no way you can convince a court that she stood
:27:02. > :27:06.there saying nothing, why, why would she not say a thing? Oscar Pistorius
:27:07. > :27:09.has always maintained he thought there was an intruder. It was the
:27:10. > :27:13.first trial to be televised in South Africa, and was watched around the
:27:14. > :27:18.world. Casting a spotlight on the country's justice system. Where one
:27:19. > :27:24.judge and no jury presided in court. A legacy of apartheid. It has been a
:27:25. > :27:33.trial with drama, as a darker side to Pistorius came out, including his
:27:34. > :27:38.liking for guns. Screams of delight, but listen to the voice of man who
:27:39. > :27:44.sounds very much like Oscar Pistorius.
:27:45. > :27:55.The prosecution said it was premeditated murder, a charge which
:27:56. > :28:02.the judge rejected. It follows that the accused's erroneous belief that
:28:03. > :28:07.his life was in danger, the accused cannot be found guilty of murder.
:28:08. > :28:15.That, however, is not the end of the matter. As culpable homicide is a
:28:16. > :28:18.competent verdict. But she still suggested he was guilty of
:28:19. > :28:21.negligence, and that is an accusation which tomorrow could
:28:22. > :28:28.still see Oscar Pistorius end his career in jail. With me in the
:28:29. > :28:35.studio to discuss all this is The Orange Prize nominated South
:28:36. > :28:40.African-born author, Gillian Slovo, and from Johannesburg, author and
:28:41. > :28:44.broadcaster, Eric Miyeni. What did you make of this part of the
:28:45. > :28:47.verdict, not guilty of murder, do you think he benefitted from a lack
:28:48. > :28:52.of a jury? I don't think it is a lack of a jury, I think it is a very
:28:53. > :28:57.difficult thing to prove what is in a man's mind. He's the only living
:28:58. > :29:01.witness to tell you what's there, how do you prove that what he's
:29:02. > :29:04.saying and in his mind is wrong. I don't think it has anything to do
:29:05. > :29:08.with the jury. It was a very difficult thing for the state to
:29:09. > :29:16.prove. Tell me, Gillian Slovo, what does this say about South Africa,
:29:17. > :29:19.how does it play out in South Africa the idea that there was somebody
:29:20. > :29:23.else in the room and chances are Oscar Pistorius thought it was black
:29:24. > :29:26.man invading his house? I think it is an extraordinary thought for him.
:29:27. > :29:40.Afterall Oscar Pistorius lived in a port trees. -- for -- fortress. He
:29:41. > :29:47.had security guards, that fear is not founded on reality, but on a
:29:48. > :29:51.fear, I think, of the privileged that there will be the mass of the
:29:52. > :29:56.impoverished to come and try to get their money and actually come and
:29:57. > :30:02.get their guns. Do you think that this speaks to a chasam between
:30:03. > :30:07.black and white in South Africa? I'm not even sure it is between black
:30:08. > :30:12.and white, it is a chasam of class. It is about the fact that there are
:30:13. > :30:15.a small number of very rich and entitled people in that country.
:30:16. > :30:22.Many of them are white, but increasingly more of them are black
:30:23. > :30:31.and a huge bulk of impoverished people. Eric what do you think of
:30:32. > :30:35.that? I do not think the way it has gone proves any chasam in the
:30:36. > :30:38.society, it proves no matter how privileged, no matter how famous, if
:30:39. > :30:42.you do something wrong you will be held to account. And secondly I
:30:43. > :30:46.think we should correct this. Oscar never, ever said there was a black
:30:47. > :30:50.intruder, not once did he say that, not once was it mentioned in court.
:30:51. > :30:55.He said he thought there was an intruder, and everybody else who
:30:56. > :31:02.says black is putting that into the picture, Oscar didn't. Yeah, Oscar
:31:03. > :31:08.never said it was a black intruder, but I think the assumption that it
:31:09. > :31:13.would be black intruder is a valid one to make. In the past during the
:31:14. > :31:17.years of party there was something they called the "black peril". I
:31:18. > :31:21.think that still runs in the consciousness of people in that
:31:22. > :31:26.country. That there is something very scary and something out to get
:31:27. > :31:31.them. And certainly Oscar Pistorius talked about how in his childhood
:31:32. > :31:39.this was something he and his mother often did discuss. Eric? Yeah, but I
:31:40. > :31:45.think we should take Judge Masipa's lead, it is important to do that. We
:31:46. > :31:48.can't put words in someone's mouth. The fact people used prejudice to
:31:49. > :31:52.assume things is incorrect, that is not how to run a justice system
:31:53. > :31:56.either. If we use these volatile terms that were not mentioned at
:31:57. > :32:05.all, we would not get justice. This judge would havered in erred in what
:32:06. > :32:11.she was doing and we should do the same. It is interesting to see after
:32:12. > :32:16.all these years after apartheid that Judge Masipa is one of two female
:32:17. > :32:20.judge, this is progress, and the racist assumption is she would have
:32:21. > :32:25.been tough on Oscar Pistorius, where as she took her legal training very
:32:26. > :32:30.seriously indeed, and delivered a very long verdict on part of it.
:32:31. > :32:36.What will be the impact if he's found guilty of culpable homicide?
:32:37. > :32:41.It will be an incredible impact. I mean either way as a nation we will
:32:42. > :32:44.have to look at everything she says to justify her judgment, whether we
:32:45. > :32:49.agree with it or not, we will have to stay with the facts. Right now I
:32:50. > :32:52.think she's incredibly correct in saying that the state just couldn't,
:32:53. > :32:57.it is almost an impossible thing to prove that this is what the man
:32:58. > :33:00.intended when he's the only witness. Whatever she comes up with, all we
:33:01. > :33:06.are left with is how she gets to the conclusion. And so far I think she's
:33:07. > :33:11.doing an incredible job. And precisely because everyone is
:33:12. > :33:16.pudding the raciadivide -- putting the racial divide and she's a black
:33:17. > :33:20.woman and she should do this and the fact that she is not is an
:33:21. > :33:26.incredible sign of our justice system. It is a sign of the justice
:33:27. > :33:30.system working, the South African justice system doesn't always work
:33:31. > :33:34.like this, but she is taking it incredibly serious. It is the first
:33:35. > :33:38.televised trial with an affect on everyone. One place there is a
:33:39. > :33:43.divide is relations between men and women in South African, the Women's
:33:44. > :33:46.League was there as well. There is a real worry about sexism in South
:33:47. > :33:50.Africa? Not only sexism but violence against women. That was never
:33:51. > :33:55.proved? The situation has improved in South Africa in the sense that
:33:56. > :34:02.since 2009 less women are getting killed by their partners. I think it
:34:03. > :34:06.is now rate of one every eight hours rather than 2009 when it was one
:34:07. > :34:10.every six hours. There is a real problem within South Africa, not
:34:11. > :34:14.only about violence in general, but yes, violence again women. Thank you
:34:15. > :34:19.very much indeed. If we are now clear that President
:34:20. > :34:23.Obama will begin open-ended air strikes against IS in Syria, the
:34:24. > :34:27.British Government sent confusing signals over British involvement.
:34:28. > :34:32.First Alex Hammond insisted Britain would not take part in any air
:34:33. > :34:34.strike, only to be corrected by Downing Street which said in terms
:34:35. > :34:45.of air power the Prime Minister has not ruled anything out. For one
:34:46. > :34:49.former US Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, the US President's moment
:34:50. > :34:55.of clarity has not come too soon. He had accused the US of being
:34:56. > :35:02.bystanders and encouraged an all-out attack on IS. In his book, World
:35:03. > :35:06.Order has just come out. President Obama has said he wants to
:35:07. > :35:11.destroy the Islamic State and there will be US air strikes against them
:35:12. > :35:19.in Syria, can he achieve his goal? We should be very careful in stating
:35:20. > :35:26.objectives that are related to what the American political process will
:35:27. > :35:34.support. In this case we are dealing with 20,000 fanatics that started
:35:35. > :35:38.Anwar offshoot of Al Qaeda. I think it is an objective that can be
:35:39. > :35:43.reached and defined in that manner. I do not believe that will bring
:35:44. > :35:47.piece to the Middle East. It means that the challenges will change and
:35:48. > :35:54.that's important for America to understand.
:35:55. > :36:02.You have always been an advocate of realisim in foreign policy rather
:36:03. > :36:12.than idealism. This is a standard argument, I believe that you have to
:36:13. > :36:15.begin argument, I believe that you have to begin I think you have to
:36:16. > :36:20.begin with a realistic assessment of the forces at work, they include
:36:21. > :36:27.values and ideals. So in that sense you are a realist, should the US be
:36:28. > :36:31.co-operating with President Assad in Syria, the sworn enemy of a year ago
:36:32. > :36:39.in order to combat the Islamic State? I think we should settle our
:36:40. > :36:53.disagreement with Assad aside for the moment. Not co-operate with him
:36:54. > :36:59.in any formal way. But then when we succeed in destroying ISIS we could
:37:00. > :37:04.then reconsider our views of our relationship with Assad, or we could
:37:05. > :37:11.address the situation, which I think is more important, even more
:37:12. > :37:20.important, what kind of structure should emerge there. Because the
:37:21. > :37:28.notion that Syria is a coherent state is a figment of the 1920s. And
:37:29. > :37:32.so that it would have to be reconstructed in some fashion. It is
:37:33. > :37:36.in that context that we should then look at the Assad question again.
:37:37. > :37:40.You say the US failed in Iraq because it was trying to implement
:37:41. > :37:44.American values in the part of a world where there were no historical
:37:45. > :37:49.roots. Is the US doom today fail again as it tries to take on the
:37:50. > :37:56.Islamic state in Iraq and Syria? We have to understand that it is not in
:37:57. > :38:03.our capability to bring about western-style democracy in these
:38:04. > :38:12.societies in the process of a military conflict. And it is
:38:13. > :38:17.probably not sustainable in American domestic opinion to engage in such
:38:18. > :38:20.an enterprise. When you look at the chaos in Iraq today, do you regret
:38:21. > :38:30.your support for the US-led invasion? If I had known then what I
:38:31. > :38:38.know now, and if I had been as aware of the schisms between the Shia and
:38:39. > :38:45.the Sunni, as I was not then, as most briefings suggested was not
:38:46. > :38:59.relevant to the Iraqi case. Had I known all of this I would not
:39:00. > :39:03.recommend it today. This is what I think today. In your book you argue
:39:04. > :39:10.that because the world is so volatile it is more important than
:39:11. > :39:15.ever for America to remain engaged. Is Barack Obama as engaged as he
:39:16. > :39:20.should be? There are two levels of engagment, there are things you
:39:21. > :39:32.proclaim you will do and the commitment you indicate behind the
:39:33. > :39:37.things that you will do. And it seems to me that the first part of
:39:38. > :39:46.that has been met more fully than the second part. Meaning? Meaning
:39:47. > :39:58.that the personal belief in what is being done and the ability to
:39:59. > :40:05.inspire your people to go on an as yet unchartered road, that part of
:40:06. > :40:09.needs another speed. You talk about the breakdown of legit my macy and
:40:10. > :40:19.trust in Government. Could that theory explain the rise in support
:40:20. > :40:24.for Scottish independence? Yes. A lot of faith in established
:40:25. > :40:27.institutions. If Scotland voted for independence would the United
:40:28. > :40:32.Kingdom without Scotland be diminished as a world power? That
:40:33. > :40:38.would depend in part on how it conducts itself. I don't think
:40:39. > :40:42.necessarily. Because not everybody will fully understand what has
:40:43. > :40:47.happened. And then for some it might still be thought of as the United
:40:48. > :41:02.Kingdom. For you who has, in your academic life, seen the nation state
:41:03. > :41:10.and the peace fail. Would it sadden you to see an independent Scotland?
:41:11. > :41:18.It wouldn't sadden me. But if it happens, America can live it with
:41:19. > :41:32.it, Britain will find way to get through it but it will be an
:41:33. > :41:41.emotional drama for Britain. It must have some impact. Thank you very
:41:42. > :41:46.much for joining us. A little earlier I spoke to Bouthaina
:41:47. > :41:49.Shaaban, political and media adviser for President Assad from Damascus.
:41:50. > :41:58.President Obama says there will be air strikes in Syria against IS, do
:41:59. > :42:06.you welcome that? I think what President Obama said is quite
:42:07. > :42:13.confusing because the Security Council resolution 217 spoke about
:42:14. > :42:21.fighting terrorism, and they spoke about the world community standing
:42:22. > :42:26.against terrorism, while the speech of President Obama dropped the
:42:27. > :42:32.co-ordination with Russia and China, invented some opposition that he
:42:33. > :42:39.wanted to support. I think it has many problems what President Obama
:42:40. > :42:45.has announced and I think the west again is making mistakes in our
:42:46. > :42:52.region. They should we view their strategy before taking any action in
:42:53. > :42:55.that region if they truly want to stop terrorism. We know there are
:42:56. > :43:02.ten Arab states rallying to the United States, surely that is your
:43:03. > :43:06.best chance of defeating IS? Terrorism did not start with I SFOR
:43:07. > :43:12.a start. In Syria we have been facing the same kind of terrorism
:43:13. > :43:17.for the last four years. The same kind of killing, slaughtering, you
:43:18. > :43:22.know displacing Christians and other people, and therefore I think what
:43:23. > :43:29.President Obama is talking about is not going to solve any problem
:43:30. > :43:35.anywhere because's not taking the right decision now. If he is going
:43:36. > :43:38.to stand by what he said today. What he said today needs a lot of
:43:39. > :43:50.clarification. Let's clarify something now. If President Obama
:43:51. > :43:56.mounts air strikes near Raqa, will Syria attack American airplanes? Our
:43:57. > :43:59.Foreign Minister has announced if there is an inter-National Coalition
:44:00. > :44:05.against terrorism, Syria will be ready to be part of it. We have been
:44:06. > :44:10.fighting terrorism for the last 30 years, but certainly nobody will be
:44:11. > :44:12.able to fight terrorism on our land without our co-ordination and
:44:13. > :44:19.without our role in fighting terrorism. If President Obama
:44:20. > :44:25.launches air strikes backed by ten Arab states in Syria, will there be
:44:26. > :44:29.a counter-attack by Syria, or will you see it as President Obama doing
:44:30. > :44:33.your job for you and combatting IS? You see now I think there is a lot
:44:34. > :44:38.of talk that is going on, I think Russia and China are not accepting
:44:39. > :44:43.what President Obama is saying. He is not abiding by Security Council
:44:44. > :44:49.resolution, even though the statement he did today, speaking
:44:50. > :44:54.about hunting terrorists is easier said than done, speaking about not
:44:55. > :44:59.allowing Christians and minorities to be removed from their original
:45:00. > :45:03.land. I would like to tell you... What does President Assad want, what
:45:04. > :45:11.are you doing to combat IS? What are you doing to take on IS? We have
:45:12. > :45:15.been fighting terrorism, IS and other kinds of terrorism, there are
:45:16. > :45:19.over 1,000 branches of terrorism here, for the last four years. They
:45:20. > :45:25.have been slaughtering our people, they have been killing our army, the
:45:26. > :45:30.west unfortunately only noticed when a western person was slaughtered and
:45:31. > :45:35.we condemn killing anybody, but our people have been killed for the last
:45:36. > :45:40.four years, and nobody even condemned the killing of our people
:45:41. > :45:45.and the people of our army. If President Obama strikes near Raqa,
:45:46. > :45:50.not all over Syria, but in the east, along a line, will the Syrians
:45:51. > :45:55.welcome that help to defeat IS? Syria would welcome to be part of
:45:56. > :46:00.the discussion and the decision, because fighting terrorism is not an
:46:01. > :46:04.easy thing, and we are the people who have been facing terrorism in
:46:05. > :46:14.the region. Will you talk to President Obama? I said to President
:46:15. > :46:20.Obama that he should truly get the opinion and the help of all people
:46:21. > :46:25.in the region, not only the countries who have been very handy
:46:26. > :46:31.in helping terrorists, who have been financing terrorism. Raqa is an
:46:32. > :46:35.ungoverned space and the American commandos went in to try to get
:46:36. > :46:40.James Foley, there is a British hostage among other hostages, surely
:46:41. > :46:45.we must make every effort in that area to combat IS? You know why the
:46:46. > :46:51.west now suddenly started to talk only about IS, talk about terrorism,
:46:52. > :46:57.what did they do since 9/11, since 2001, what are the achievements in
:46:58. > :47:04.Pakistan, in upper Afghanistan and in Libya. They have to believe that
:47:05. > :47:10.they have to listen to consult with people who have been truly victims
:47:11. > :47:14.of terrorism, not to meet with countries who have been financing
:47:15. > :47:18.arming and facilitating terrorism. But the problem is that President
:47:19. > :47:24.Assad is not in control of the whole of his country. President Assad is
:47:25. > :47:28.not control of the situation, therefore it is impossible for those
:47:29. > :47:32.standing by in other countries not to do anything. Other people have to
:47:33. > :47:39.take on IS if President Assad can't do it? At least the army of Syria is
:47:40. > :47:43.fighting terrorism everywhere, and if there areas that are taken by the
:47:44. > :47:48.terrorists, it is thanks to the people who have been financing and
:47:49. > :47:53.arming and facilitating terrorism, therefore the least thing that Obama
:47:54. > :47:56.could do is stand with Syria, with the Government of Syria against
:47:57. > :48:02.terrorism and with the Government of the region who truly are against
:48:03. > :48:08.terrorism. You know that IS represents a very particular threat,
:48:09. > :48:11.this is not like the opposition that stood up to President Assad four
:48:12. > :48:16.years ago, this is quite different. You know it is a different kettle of
:48:17. > :48:22.fish and they have to be taken on separately. You know that?
:48:23. > :48:31.Unfortunately you know things that are not real. IS is like the
:48:32. > :48:35.terrorist like other organisation, I can count 100 organisations that
:48:36. > :48:40.have been slaughtering people, killing women and have been
:48:41. > :48:44.criminals all over the country. I'm not underestimating the horrid
:48:45. > :48:48.presence of IS, but I'm saying to the west you have to get real. You
:48:49. > :48:53.have to see what's happening on the ground. What President Obama is
:48:54. > :49:01.saying he's going to support and finance and arm, they are the same
:49:02. > :49:05.people like IS, they have the same ideology, extremist, terrorist
:49:06. > :49:10.ideology. Thank you very much. To survive the deadly Ebola virus is
:49:11. > :49:14.one thing, but to return to the centre of the epidemic to play a
:49:15. > :49:18.part again to control the outbreak is quite near. William Pooley, the
:49:19. > :49:22.British nurse who was the first Britain to contract the virus in
:49:23. > :49:27.Sierra Leone, was desperately ill when the RAF evacuated him from a
:49:28. > :49:33.Government base in Kenema three weeks ago. The odds of him surviving
:49:34. > :49:39.were poor, with expert demand in the Royal Free Hospital, under Stephen
:49:40. > :49:47.Mepham in a microbiology consultant who flew to Sierra Leone to
:49:48. > :49:49.accompany him home. Charities such as medicines sans front tears
:49:50. > :49:54.turning patients away, he's going back. Only worked in the hospital
:49:55. > :49:58.six weeks when he became infected, he believes he has work to do in
:49:59. > :50:01.Sierra Leone. It is good to see you looking well. You went to work in
:50:02. > :50:04.that hospital, you were already working for a charity in the area.
:50:05. > :50:13.Then you went to hospital because of Ebola, did you know what you were
:50:14. > :50:19.facing? Not before I went. After a few weeks there it became apparent
:50:20. > :50:24.that people were, nursing were getting infected, there were
:50:25. > :50:28.certainly a risky place to work that did become apparent after a few
:50:29. > :50:32.weeks, but there was also improvement happening all the time.
:50:33. > :50:42.It felt like things were becoming safer. And indeed you lost friends
:50:43. > :50:47.you had made there? In the time I was there eight or so colleagues
:50:48. > :50:52.died that I was working with. And then when you became ill, did you
:50:53. > :50:58.realise quickly just how ill you were? It was overnight really, I
:50:59. > :51:06.started to feel sick and then the next day he was tested. I had the
:51:07. > :51:16.feeling it was going to be bad news. And the test to prove that I had
:51:17. > :51:23.Ebola, it happened very quickly. I always wondered it did you tell your
:51:24. > :51:27.parents at that point? I wanted to hold off until the evacuation was
:51:28. > :51:31.confirmed. Once all of that was put into place I was able to tell my
:51:32. > :51:36.parents. It must have been extraordinary, but you understand
:51:37. > :51:41.infectious diseases and you work with them, to be in the isolation
:51:42. > :51:48.tent and to be treated at the Royal Free, what did you make of it, it
:51:49. > :51:51.must have been extraordinary? It was extraordinary, and the contrast
:51:52. > :51:56.between the care that I was providing in Sierra Leone with the
:51:57. > :52:00.care that I received, I was outnumbered by healthcare work
:52:01. > :52:05.erstwhile the patients were outnumbing me. A Third World disease
:52:06. > :52:08.treated in a first world country, as compared what happens in the third
:52:09. > :52:12.world company? That changes outcomes, I had that treatment and
:52:13. > :52:17.care. What do you think about that f this was a disease that broadly
:52:18. > :52:29.affected a white western population we would have found a vaccine
:52:30. > :52:36.quicker? Money has to be made out of these things, it was easy to ignore
:52:37. > :52:43.the problem while there were small pockets of disease in place, I don't
:52:44. > :52:46.think it can be ignored any longer. Medicines sans frontier in like
:52:47. > :52:50.beeria are saying it is out of control what -- in Liberia are
:52:51. > :52:57.saying it is out of control what are you saying about that? They said
:52:58. > :53:01.they needed an 800 bed hospital and it is getting out of control in
:53:02. > :53:09.Liberia and Sierra Leone as well, you can see the rate of new
:53:10. > :53:15.infections going up exponentially. And that means more deaths? We are
:53:16. > :53:19.moving away from the time when we can contain this towards a point
:53:20. > :53:29.where it is a lost cause. What do you want David Cameron to do? I
:53:30. > :53:34.would love to see him take global leadership on this and dedicate a
:53:35. > :53:40.good amount of resources for establishing treatment centres and a
:53:41. > :53:44.number of treatment services for Sierra Leone and Liberia, where they
:53:45. > :53:49.can give decent care for international staff, well resourced,
:53:50. > :53:53.they will be safe for staff to work in. And better outcomes. You have
:53:54. > :54:01.had the disease and treated, can you ever get it again, there is some
:54:02. > :54:04.dispute about this? Almost all of the evidence points towards
:54:05. > :54:08.immunity, we don't know for how long, whether it is lifelong. But it
:54:09. > :54:11.seems very likely that I would be protected against this strain of
:54:12. > :54:16.Ebola at least. How quickly are you going back? It will be a few weeks.
:54:17. > :54:21.You don't have your passport yet because it was incinerated? That is
:54:22. > :54:27.in the post. Your family are OK with you going back? They support me all
:54:28. > :54:47.the way. The front papers tomorrow:
:54:48. > :54:56.Nothing unusual about a holiday and nothing unusual about recording
:54:57. > :55:00.every single event, adventure, meal, drinking marathon, with some
:55:01. > :55:06.impressive Photoshop skills a Dutch student found she could do it all
:55:07. > :55:10.without moving a muscle. She faked a trip from her home in Amsterdam to
:55:11. > :55:58.satire the media management. The quiet settled spell of weather
:55:59. > :55:59.conditions. No sign of rain in the near future.