:00:00. > :00:08.This programme has flashing images s.
:00:09. > :00:16.Tonight live from Scotland, a noisy end to a long campaign.
:00:17. > :00:20.Ed Miliband is forced to bane done his walk about as chaos breaks out
:00:21. > :00:28.on the trail. Who has won this ground war? We ask Alastair
:00:29. > :00:32.Campbell, how would the world view us without Scotland. David Grossman
:00:33. > :00:36.goes looking for the rarest of creatures, the Scottish story. Here
:00:37. > :00:42.it is, the office of the last Conservative MP in Scotland. And the
:00:43. > :00:46.Scots and Gordies. If we rebuild the Roman wall and join up with the
:00:47. > :01:00.Scots, we will become the affluent south. Chris Donald wants the
:01:01. > :01:04.north-east to join Scotland. Good evening, tonight with two days
:01:05. > :01:09.of campaigning to go, we are in the shadow of St Andrew's church and the
:01:10. > :01:13.market town of Moffat. This constituency has what no other
:01:14. > :01:19.constituency has, a Scottish Tory MP. How powerful have the voices
:01:20. > :01:25.here been to the unionists. It may feel like the campaign has been
:01:26. > :01:28.going on forever. Here is proof you are right. The first debate about
:01:29. > :01:32.Scottish devolution took place 40 years ago. What would those voices
:01:33. > :01:38.have made of the claims and counter claims today, today the future of
:01:39. > :01:42.the NHS became the topic. Can either offer a manifesto that can be
:01:43. > :01:45.delivered. We will ask the studio audience in a minute and we will
:01:46. > :01:51.hear from Allegra Stratton about the credibility gap. First to Laura
:01:52. > :01:57.Kuensberg with the latest polls. You would have to have a blindfold
:01:58. > :02:04.on and fingers in your ears not to walk around and not realise that
:02:05. > :02:10.something is happening in Scotland. This h been tangible as a campaign
:02:11. > :02:14.more than in recent times W it has come a volatility and intensity that
:02:15. > :02:18.has made it hard to predict. Three new polls tonight all of which
:02:19. > :02:25.suggest that no to independence is narrowly in the lead on 52 and yes
:02:26. > :02:30.to a new and different country is just behind on 48. That, however,
:02:31. > :02:35.will not allow the unionist side to breathe easy, with these polls come
:02:36. > :02:40.two big fat caveats. They can't hope to begin to capture the new voters
:02:41. > :02:44.who have registered, perhaps as many as a million by some estimate, and
:02:45. > :02:49.the extraordinary turnout expected by all the pundits. Maybe as much as
:02:50. > :02:53.90%. The polls are not certain, in a way that we might normally consider
:02:54. > :02:59.them. But what might make the unionist side feel a bit easier
:03:00. > :03:02.tonight? Sleep a bit more restfully after everything that has in recent
:03:03. > :03:09.days is one very influential press baron. A certain Rupert Murdoch has
:03:10. > :03:13.come out in the Scottish Sun, not for independence, which he had been
:03:14. > :03:21.flirting with, but instead with a rather gruesome front page, mocking
:03:22. > :03:26.up Alastair Darling and Alex Salmond in X Factor and Britain's Got
:03:27. > :03:30.Talents photos and saying it is up to you Scotland. Politicians are all
:03:31. > :03:35.too aware this will be won vote by vote. Even with two days campaigning
:03:36. > :03:40.there is still a lot of hard work to do. A lot could change.
:03:41. > :03:47.Our political editor has been on the stump, tracking their every move.
:03:48. > :03:51.He once held power across all of Britain, but today the future of the
:03:52. > :03:53.United Kingdom seemed to rest in this plan's pledge to hand some of
:03:54. > :03:57.those powers away. David Cameron now this plan's pledge to hand some of
:03:58. > :04:01.won't be seen in Scotland until after the referendum. The pro-union
:04:02. > :04:05.push has been left in the hands of the locals.
:04:06. > :04:09.The three leaders of the main UK parties made it absolutely clear
:04:10. > :04:12.that there is now a timetable for more powers for the Scottish
:04:13. > :04:17.Parliament, that Scottish Parliament will be permanent and valued as part
:04:18. > :04:22.of the UK constitution, that Scotland will always be involved and
:04:23. > :04:27.engaged in the discussions about the future of the UK constitution. Some
:04:28. > :04:33.50 hours to go, no time for a novice and not time for novel ideas either,
:04:34. > :04:37.just the deal that Gordon Brown believes he brokered.
:04:38. > :04:40.This morning your special adviser said that over the last year you
:04:41. > :04:43.have wanted to talk to Ed Miliband and David Cameron about your ideas
:04:44. > :04:46.and they haven't picked up the phone, did that happen? I spoke to
:04:47. > :04:51.Ed Miliband a great deal. I have no issue. And David Cameron, has he not
:04:52. > :04:55.listened? I have been putting proposals and wrote a book about
:04:56. > :04:58.proposals for reform about the constitution. Did David Cameron
:04:59. > :05:02.listen to you sufficiently? They have now looked at the proposals in
:05:03. > :05:06.my book, today there is this letter in the Daily Record, a Scottish
:05:07. > :05:08.newspaper, last week there was an agreement on a timetable what has
:05:09. > :05:15.happened is all the parties have come together. A slightly lower key
:05:16. > :05:19.event down the road. To many people Charley Kennedy is the cavalry, is
:05:20. > :05:23.that right? No, I have been called a lot of things in my time, but that
:05:24. > :05:29.is a first. Whatever happens on Friday there is more powers going to
:05:30. > :05:32.Hollyrood, if it is going to be a meaningful institution, someone like
:05:33. > :05:44.you should want to get stuck in? How flattering. Behrami are having to
:05:45. > :05:49.use tter -- Better Together have to use characters like Charley Kennedy.
:05:50. > :05:53.They took to the Daily Record to set out the powers they will give to the
:05:54. > :05:57.Scottish people. They said it last week and now they feel they have to
:05:58. > :06:03.set it out in indelible ink. Trust in Westminster's politicians is also
:06:04. > :06:06.on trial on Thursday. We saw the pledge you signed today, a last
:06:07. > :06:10.desperate move to hold the Labour vote together? The Labour leader
:06:11. > :06:14.answered questions, but as campaigners of all colours encircled
:06:15. > :06:23.him and the media, he had to be ushered out.
:06:24. > :06:33.This was once a Labour heartland, indeed it was once a Labour shrine.
:06:34. > :06:39.Clyde Bank in Glasgow, where industrial strive in the 20s made
:06:40. > :06:43.the Labour Party. Yes campaigners tell us it is not an affluence area,
:06:44. > :06:51.something pollsters agree points towards a yes vote. Front page of
:06:52. > :06:55.the Daily Record has the three Westminster leaders talking about
:06:56. > :06:58.the powers? We are sick of the powers and the leaders, look at the
:06:59. > :07:02.state the country is in. We are fed up with the empty promises. If you
:07:03. > :07:06.had more powers would you change the country? Why not have more powers
:07:07. > :07:11.when we is can have our own power, we could have our own constitution,
:07:12. > :07:14.this is our time. This is our town. We followed them for half an hour,
:07:15. > :07:18.they are very optimistic on Thursday it is a yes vote. They say the
:07:19. > :07:21.promise this morning of more powers from the three Westminster party
:07:22. > :07:25.leaders won't make a bit of difference. The only guaranteed way
:07:26. > :07:28.of getting more powers for Scotland, the powers we need to protect our
:07:29. > :07:33.public service, create jobs make sure we never again get Tory
:07:34. > :07:36.Governments we don't vote for is to vote yes, to keep control of the
:07:37. > :07:40.future of this country where it is now, in our own hands. If we vote no
:07:41. > :07:42.we hand control of the future of Scotland straight back to the
:07:43. > :07:48.Westminster establishment and have to cross our fingers hoping for some
:07:49. > :07:53.crumbs from the Westminster table in the form of a new power here or
:07:54. > :08:01.there. That is not good enough, if we vote yes we have control of the
:08:02. > :08:05.powers we have here in Scotland. Tonight senior figures in the no
:08:06. > :08:11.camp are confident. Try telling it to this lot.
:08:12. > :08:15.Allegra Stratton with that report. As you can see we have a live
:08:16. > :08:20.audience here in Moffat. Last night, if you watched the show you remember
:08:21. > :08:25.we had more yes than no. Tonight to balance it out we have more no than
:08:26. > :08:29.yes and a few undecided scattered inbetween. We will have a show of
:08:30. > :08:33.hands and get thoughts on the way along. Someone who describes himself
:08:34. > :08:36.as British, Scottish and Yorkshire, in that order, and knows how to
:08:37. > :08:41.organise a ground war is Alastair Campbell, and we have Jeanne
:08:42. > :08:43.Freeman, former adviser to Jack McConnell, who promisingly describes
:08:44. > :08:47.herself as opinionated, good to have you here. You know what a good
:08:48. > :08:53.campaign looks and feels like from within, was this one? You would have
:08:54. > :08:57.to say in terms of what you call the ground war the yes campaign has put
:08:58. > :09:02.together a pretty formidable campaigning machine, you judge it by
:09:03. > :09:06.the outcome. And the fundamentals are what count. The reason why I do
:09:07. > :09:10.believe actually that the polls which are drifting back to the no
:09:11. > :09:14.campaign are going to be proved right, that no probably will win is
:09:15. > :09:18.a very, very big fundamental questions have not been answered.
:09:19. > :09:21.That is why you have so many undeciders. They are to me, a lot of
:09:22. > :09:24.them are people who are looking for a reason to vote yes, and they
:09:25. > :09:29.haven't been won over. Any lawyers here will know there is a Scottish
:09:30. > :09:35.verdict called "not proven", I think the case for independence has not
:09:36. > :09:38.been proven, but the risks of rep separation have been proven and that
:09:39. > :09:41.is why Alex Salmond's momentum has stalled. The report suggests that
:09:42. > :09:47.the money the yes campaign was spent on the ground, and the no spent it
:09:48. > :09:50.on the think tanks, the currency focus groups, and actually got the
:09:51. > :09:53.issues right, do you accept that? I hope the no campaign didn't spend
:09:54. > :09:59.any money on the focus group that told them to run that first ad, that
:10:00. > :10:01.most women in Scotland found astonishingly patronising, I hope
:10:02. > :10:06.they didn't waste their money on that. I think that the no examine is
:10:07. > :10:18.a top-down run campaign, it is largely run by the three unionist
:10:19. > :10:23.parties. Alastair Campbell and I agree on it, the yes campaign is a
:10:24. > :10:26.grassroots campaign and populated by people who haven't been in politics
:10:27. > :10:30.before. People not in political parties and doing this all for the
:10:31. > :10:34.first time. And ran a campaign, some have said of intimidation, that the
:10:35. > :10:39.no camp has been quieter because they haven't dared admit who they
:10:40. > :10:43.have been voting for? I think that is a piece of nonsense. Both no and
:10:44. > :10:47.yes have our own small number of folks who in the olden days would
:10:48. > :10:51.probably write letters in green ink and are now using this opportunity
:10:52. > :10:55.to express their frustrations and their annoyance, but the vast bulk
:10:56. > :11:02.of this campaign, and remember whilst it might be getting a lot of
:11:03. > :11:07.attention now, it is two years old and it is conducted with remarkable
:11:08. > :11:12.civility. On either side, would anyone say they felt intimidated by
:11:13. > :11:15.the way the campaign has been run, just a show of hands. So three
:11:16. > :11:21.people on the yes campaign, and one on the no campaign. Keep your hand
:11:22. > :11:32.up if you want to share your views how you felt. No-one, OK. Yes you
:11:33. > :11:38.have. I had a problem on a doorstep with somebody who took a violent
:11:39. > :11:41.exception to what I was saying and didn't like the message. You were
:11:42. > :11:45.spreading the message as a no campaigner? That's right. Has anyone
:11:46. > :11:49.here lied to a pollster during the course of this campaign. If you were
:11:50. > :11:54.called up, just raise your hand, I won't go any further, tell me, put
:11:55. > :11:57.your hand up if you have lied to a pollster about your position?
:11:58. > :12:02.No-one, that will be interesting. If that is representative then our
:12:03. > :12:07.polls are true. Alastair Campbell is this the closest battle you have
:12:08. > :12:19.ever seen? No, I don't think so. You have had, you go back to the Quebec
:12:20. > :12:22.referendum and others. It has been the most innovating and energised
:12:23. > :12:26.campaign I have seen, that is to the yes campaign's credit. They have got
:12:27. > :12:30.this, it is about big questions and fundamental questions. But as I said
:12:31. > :12:33.earlier, you have to judge a campaign on the outcome. They have
:12:34. > :12:41.closed the gap. The reason I think why they have been able to build
:12:42. > :12:47.this formidable ground examine is because -- campaign is the
:12:48. > :12:51.Westminster parties were slow about it and they have now managed to
:12:52. > :12:55.bring up the questions about the pound and NATO. Is this more
:12:56. > :12:59.important to you than the campaigns you ran for Tony Blair, more than
:13:00. > :13:03.1997 and winning for new Labour? That was a really big thing for us.
:13:04. > :13:07.As David Cameron said yesterday and lots of the party leaders have said,
:13:08. > :13:12.long after the leaders that we see on our TV screens today have gone,
:13:13. > :13:17.this vote on Thursday decides the future of this country and it is
:13:18. > :13:23.irreversible. I think that is another reason why the undecides
:13:24. > :13:25.have come back. It is the irreversibility of it, if you are
:13:26. > :13:28.going to take a decision such as changing the fundamental nature of
:13:29. > :13:32.your country you have to be sure. So many people are not sure, they don't
:13:33. > :13:35.know about the pound or Europe, or who will pay for their pensions. You
:13:36. > :13:40.have done that list already. It is better than talking about some old
:13:41. > :13:44.advert everyone has forgotten about. From a Labour perspective, you are
:13:45. > :13:47.pro-independence, when you look at Alex Salmond, is he the future of
:13:48. > :13:53.the country? I think independence is the future of the country. I'm not
:13:54. > :13:56.unique as a former Labour supporter, supporting independence. 42% and
:13:57. > :14:00.rising of Labour supporters are moving to independence. So let me
:14:01. > :14:03.just finish. How did you lose Labour? The reason for that is
:14:04. > :14:06.people are angry at Labour in Scotland, they are angry that we
:14:07. > :14:10.have one in four children in poverty, we have a million people
:14:11. > :14:13.living in poverty, and Labour has consistently broken promises. That
:14:14. > :14:19.is why no matter the pledge people will not trust that. Do you accept
:14:20. > :14:24.that? I STHAEP a lot of people here, and a lot of people in the United
:14:25. > :14:27.Kingdom. A lot of people in northern towns, in coastal towns and Kent,
:14:28. > :14:30.people feel hacked off with Westminster politics, it is not just
:14:31. > :14:33.a Scottish thing. What Alex Salmond is trying to persuade people, this
:14:34. > :14:36.is unique to Scotland and if you get rid of the UK Government
:14:37. > :14:41.everything's going to be perfect in Scotland. That is not true. That is
:14:42. > :14:44.not his argument. It is the politics of grievance the whole time. You
:14:45. > :14:48.have heard the arguments and probably many times, who here feels
:14:49. > :14:52.that they can believe the deal that has been set out for them by either
:14:53. > :14:59.side, whichever side you believe on the table, who feels that they
:15:00. > :15:03.trust, right, and you are no, so even though it hasn't been spelt out
:15:04. > :15:06.what will happen to income tax and corporation tax, you don't know, you
:15:07. > :15:09.are trusting they will offer the right powers or you don't want any
:15:10. > :15:13.new powers? The parties are offering different things. A specific
:15:14. > :15:20.timetable has been set out and we know exactly when it is going to
:15:21. > :15:27.happen. I was going to say the same thing. Let me say, the parties are
:15:28. > :15:31.going to make different proposals what this referendum has done is it
:15:32. > :15:34.has got the whole nature of British politics and constitution, how we do
:15:35. > :15:39.politics on to the agenda for the whole of the UK. What has happened
:15:40. > :15:42.is with two weeks to go suddenly the parties supporting the union have
:15:43. > :15:47.started treating this seriously. They were dismissing it right up
:15:48. > :15:50.until them. You are absolutely right, the three parties have three
:15:51. > :15:55.different things to offer. We can't possibly say if we vote no we vote
:15:56. > :15:57.with certainty. You are voting with certainty for fundamental change to
:15:58. > :16:05.the constitutional change. Labour offers the least of all. If we end
:16:06. > :16:09.up with the least common denominator it will be flittering around the
:16:10. > :16:14.edges of what we have already got and not worth the paper it is
:16:15. > :16:18.written on. Anyone undecided. Can I ask, if you don't mind answering
:16:19. > :16:22.this, what will change your mind in the next two days? You are going to
:16:23. > :16:28.vote any way, right. What will change it? I'm looking to hear
:16:29. > :16:32.arguments that feed what I'm looking for from an independent country. I
:16:33. > :16:36.think my instinct is for more power, more autonomy, but as a business
:16:37. > :16:39.person, actually it hasn't been made clear that the situation will
:16:40. > :16:45.actually help that side of my life. So it is balance between various
:16:46. > :16:48.different things. What do you all your, British without Scotland? You
:16:49. > :16:54.wrote very passionately today the order in which you identity? I think
:16:55. > :16:56.national identity is important for every individual, and it is
:16:57. > :17:00.changing. You see that in Scotland going around the streets here. I do
:17:01. > :17:04.feel British, then Scottish, then Yorkshire, and I feel English a
:17:05. > :17:08.long, long way behind that. And if the United Kingdom, the country that
:17:09. > :17:11.I live in separates from lots of my family who live here, so my brother
:17:12. > :17:16.will have a different passport to me, and I just feel that it is, Bill
:17:17. > :17:19.Clinton has put out a statement tonight and made a fantastic point
:17:20. > :17:24.were he goes through the issues about the pound, about the fact you
:17:25. > :17:27.will get more powers, but he makes the wonderful point that Scotland
:17:28. > :17:30.can show the world that it is possible to have differences with
:17:31. > :17:35.your neighbours but coexist peacefully. That is a brilliant
:17:36. > :17:39.explanation. So some are saying the yes campaign is about hating the
:17:40. > :17:46.English and Bill Clinton is saying something else? What built has said
:17:47. > :17:50.it is nonsense. I'm talking to Emily here, what is nonsense is the fact
:17:51. > :17:55.that those of us who support independence are anti-anybody. We
:17:56. > :17:59.are not the ones wandering around insisting we are patriotic Scots.
:18:00. > :18:05.Please. Bill Clinton, I agree, with independence we can prove that we
:18:06. > :18:09.can make the right decisions in Scotland and coexist happily with
:18:10. > :18:11.our neighbours. Ripping five countries apart, UK, Scotland,
:18:12. > :18:18.England and Wales and Northern Ireland. This is classic language,
:18:19. > :18:21.we are not ripping anything. In 48 hours the polls will have closed and
:18:22. > :18:24.we could be on the brink of the end of the United Kingdom, the five
:18:25. > :18:29.countries as we know it. It is fair to say that Britannia no longer
:18:30. > :18:32.rules the waves and hasn't for many decades. But how will the moment be
:18:33. > :18:37.seen in years to come and what is the rest of the world, looking on
:18:38. > :18:46.from afar, make of the concept of a new Britain if it happens?
:18:47. > :18:51.Neighbour, rivals, often enemies, before the Act of Union there was
:18:52. > :18:57.England and Scotland. As the age of empire dawned, both nations set sail
:18:58. > :19:01.to conquer the world, England found fertile territory in Virginia,
:19:02. > :19:04.Scotland's ambitions died after an ill-fated venture to Panama. After
:19:05. > :19:08.the failure of the new world, Scotland turned to the old enemy and
:19:09. > :19:12.the union was born. Although Scotland entered into the union from
:19:13. > :19:15.a position of weakness, the two nations united as equals and the
:19:16. > :19:21.United Kingdom went on to dominate the globe. The British Empire turned
:19:22. > :19:27.the map pink, everywhere the British Empire went Scots were in the
:19:28. > :19:32.vanguard. In India in 1792 Scots made up one in nine in civil
:19:33. > :19:35.servants and one in three army officers, Glasgow built the ships
:19:36. > :19:42.that ruled the waves for Britannia. But as the imperial tide turned, and
:19:43. > :19:44.as Britain's colonies one by one caught independence, some in
:19:45. > :19:49.Scotland also began to question their continued membership of the
:19:50. > :19:52.union. Far from seeing themselves as fellow colonialist, they felt
:19:53. > :19:56.themselves to be living in England's closest colony. By joining its lot
:19:57. > :20:00.with England, Scotland created the idea of the United Kingdom. If Scots
:20:01. > :20:04.vote yes on Thursday, without the tether of the original active union,
:20:05. > :20:11.could other parts of the British Isles feel their ties to the union
:20:12. > :20:20.also begin to loosen? Shakar Dayal Simon Schama is here,
:20:21. > :20:24.and Neal Ascherson. A warm welcome to both of you. I wonder if you
:20:25. > :20:32.shouldn't look at what might happen on Thursday as a natural unwinding
:20:33. > :20:35.of the British Empire? Well the natural histories of nations are
:20:36. > :20:53.almost a poetic thing, but they are very, very important. There is no
:20:54. > :20:59.timetable which goes from infancy to decrepitude, countries renew
:21:00. > :21:03.themselves. As has been said tonight there is a possible moment of
:21:04. > :21:09.renewal and re-think what Britain is. That is very important. I want
:21:10. > :21:13.to say one can wax sentimental about the history of Britain. I'm
:21:14. > :21:17.unapologetically not a romantic about Britain, but I'm not at all
:21:18. > :21:21.ashamed about what Britain has accomplished. Your little
:21:22. > :21:34.introductory session was all about empire, one has an immediate sense
:21:35. > :21:39.of an imperial culture in aspic. Sort of tiffin, chukka and mounties,
:21:40. > :21:45.but what this union produced was Adam Smith, David Hume, engineering,
:21:46. > :21:50.there are great elements of modernist dynamic qualities in our
:21:51. > :21:54.life that still go on. You either believe today, I think actually,
:21:55. > :22:02.that you want to live in countries in which you have just one-nation,
:22:03. > :22:08.by itself, or you are thrilled and excited by the possibility of living
:22:09. > :22:12.in a country with different, distinct, national cultures that
:22:13. > :22:16.share the same house. That's what those of us who are not apologetic
:22:17. > :22:20.about being British want to defend. Is it that sense of empire Neal, you
:22:21. > :22:25.think people on the independent side are wanting to get away from now?
:22:26. > :22:30.No, I really don't think it is. I mean it is there. The fact that
:22:31. > :22:39.people in great liberal newspapers in London can say what is taking
:22:40. > :22:44.place in Scotland is ethnic chauvinism, the Observer, can you
:22:45. > :22:48.believe it? If you scratch that underneath it is the relics of
:22:49. > :22:52.empire thinking. But no, there are much more important things to think
:22:53. > :22:59.about, which is, you know, what kind of Scotland? I mean the thing about
:23:00. > :23:04.voting yes for independence is it is not you know that you can produce a
:23:05. > :23:08.full menu of everything that's going to be done, independence is a
:23:09. > :23:13.gateway, you go through it, and then when you are through it then you ask
:23:14. > :23:17.yourself what kind of Scotland? That's what it is about, it is not
:23:18. > :23:21.about the break ago I way from an empire. I wonder if you think of
:23:22. > :23:26.nationalism nowadays as a dirty word? I certainly don't think of
:23:27. > :23:31.Scottish nationalism as a dirty word, it is true there is something
:23:32. > :23:38.to rejoice in a country which is talking to itself and talking to its
:23:39. > :23:43.neighbours about its own identity. I think actually the ferocious average
:23:44. > :23:47.nationalism, nationalisms which are by definition from the beginning
:23:48. > :23:56.warrior nationalisms and for all the size of the monuments of William
:23:57. > :24:00.Wallace that is not the case. One of the wonderful things about the
:24:01. > :24:04.campaign is it has in some way been about a national community. I
:24:05. > :24:10.actually celebrate that. I speak as an Englishman who is also British,
:24:11. > :24:16.and also Jewish as well like you, and we like to live, at least I like
:24:17. > :24:21.to live in a country, I won't presume for you, we like to live in
:24:22. > :24:26.a community where we have all these different places in our place of
:24:27. > :24:30.residence. Let me hand this to the audience. How many of you will call
:24:31. > :24:35.yourself a nationalist? No-one. That is interesting. No-one on the yes
:24:36. > :24:41.side would say that you feel nationalist. Would you all call
:24:42. > :24:46.yourself Scottish? Right, OK. Can I ask the same question about empire,
:24:47. > :24:51.when you think of empire, when I say the word "empire" who thinks of it
:24:52. > :24:54.with a sense of proud heritage? Can you keep your hand up if you can
:24:55. > :24:58.tell me why? Sir, you have had your hand up a couple of times, this
:24:59. > :25:04.gentleman on the yes side at the back. I think it has, the result of
:25:05. > :25:08.it has put a lot of people across the world together. And I grew up in
:25:09. > :25:13.Zimbabwe, for example, and feel part of something much bigger than just a
:25:14. > :25:19.country. It is a global community, if you like. And I think there is
:25:20. > :25:23.something exciting about that. And when you say it is a global
:25:24. > :25:26.community but you are voting yes, you are sitting on this side, you
:25:27. > :25:33.don't see any contradiction in that particularly? I suppose I'm in
:25:34. > :25:40.favour of unity rather than division and I think we have seen a lot of
:25:41. > :25:44.division in the world which has brought about a lot of tragic
:25:45. > :25:50.situations and I have come through one myself. I'm not saying Scotland
:25:51. > :25:53.is like Zimbabwe, it isn't at all, but I feel very weary of the
:25:54. > :26:03.uncertainty that may lie in front of us. Are you sure you have a yes
:26:04. > :26:13.badge on, you made the most eloquent case for no. Are you undecided? It
:26:14. > :26:18.is a no badge! The empire brought the rule of law to all sorts of
:26:19. > :26:25.places, which didn't have that and in Moffat we have John McAdam who
:26:26. > :26:30.invented the modern road surfaces, and he's buried in the churchyard
:26:31. > :26:34.behind you on the other side of the the high street, that is another
:26:35. > :26:40.sign of empire, he made it possible to get from A-B. There are empires
:26:41. > :26:44.of the mind too, not very far from Moffat, there was a statue of the
:26:45. > :26:49.scary but incredibly important Thomas Carlyle, one of the greatest
:26:50. > :26:54.historians of the 19th century. Apart from Ruskin and Dicken, Thomas
:26:55. > :26:59.Carlyle was the most-read Victorian author. Whatever you think of his
:27:00. > :27:03.extraordinarily foaming wild prose about the French Revolution, Carlyle
:27:04. > :27:09.said this to industrial Britain, "do not just be a nation of machinery,
:27:10. > :27:13.have a conscience, think about your Christian heritage". One thing I
:27:14. > :27:18.think one needs to be unapologetic about, as a union of different
:27:19. > :27:23.nations in Britain, it is the war we fought with our conscience against
:27:24. > :27:27.fascism. That was something. When you hear that line, do you hear
:27:28. > :27:31.somebody who is trying to sort of tug on the heartstrings and remind
:27:32. > :27:38.you of all that you have been through? Yes I do. I have to say.
:27:39. > :27:42.Becoming independent isn't done without loss. There is always
:27:43. > :27:51.something to pay, you know. And there is. It can be something small
:27:52. > :27:58.like losing a newspaper in a metropolitan language, it can be
:27:59. > :28:04.something much bigger. For me I have fought in Her Majesty's war, I have
:28:05. > :28:08.had to kill people on the order of Her Majesty, which I now bitterly
:28:09. > :28:11.regret. At the same time I still have a deep love for the people I
:28:12. > :28:18.fought with in the Royal Marines. And when I think you know the flag
:28:19. > :28:24.will no longer be my flag, it is a stab, but that is the price you pay.
:28:25. > :28:29.You go through the gate and to live in a better society, it has to be
:28:30. > :28:32.done. A quote from a former Italian Prime Minister who said it is not
:28:33. > :28:44.far fetched to compare the consequences of what this would mean
:28:45. > :28:51.to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. Yes it is far fetched.
:28:52. > :28:59.Let's leave it there. Good try. Who feels that they are already living
:29:00. > :29:05.in a devolved nation? Who feels for the last 15 years you are already in
:29:06. > :29:10.a devolved nation, no? Who feels that more devolution, whatever the
:29:11. > :29:13.outcome is a good thing? More devolution is a good thing, more
:29:14. > :29:22.powers for Scotland is a good thing. Who doesn't want to see any more
:29:23. > :29:25.powers with Scotland. OK. I think it is about more powers for everyone.
:29:26. > :29:29.Not just Scotland. We are talking about the whole of the union, Great
:29:30. > :29:32.Britain, United Kingdom. So it is powers for everyone not just
:29:33. > :29:36.Scotland. And that is one of the reasons I'm voting no. And you are
:29:37. > :29:44.shaking your head there? Yes, because that is you know it is a
:29:45. > :29:48.noble, old song which has been empty of meaning, we have been there
:29:49. > :29:52.before and people have constantly tried to say Scotland seems to be
:29:53. > :29:55.moving away and doing naughty things, so let's make that process
:29:56. > :30:01.part of a general UK process, and then we will get it under control,
:30:02. > :30:08.what then happens is nothing. Who are these people? They are parts of
:30:09. > :30:11.Britain and northern England which really need self-Government, and
:30:12. > :30:16.they need it in many cases their position is worse than that of
:30:17. > :30:21.Scotland, much worse, actually. Scotland will have their own
:30:22. > :30:25.parliament. Does England need a parliament? I think it has to think
:30:26. > :30:29.about it. If you are putting me on the spot and asking do I think it
:30:30. > :30:36.would be a good idea, my feeling is yes. Mostly I think that the nature
:30:37. > :30:41.of Great Britain as a federal state needs to have as vigorous a
:30:42. > :30:45.discussion as happened in Scotland. Now you are presuming to talk to the
:30:46. > :30:49.English, Neal. You can't have a federation in which there are 55
:30:50. > :30:54.million of one partner and five the other. It can't work. Not all the
:30:55. > :30:57.provinces of Canada have equal population, of course it can work.
:30:58. > :31:00.The same is true of Switzerland as well. Of course it can work. That is
:31:01. > :31:04.because there are many, many partners in a federation. Here there
:31:05. > :31:08.is just three. There is a great deal of freedom and authority and power
:31:09. > :31:14.in the parts that are federal. Let me say one more thing. Are you
:31:15. > :31:22.saying whether it is small working together or with more powers it will
:31:23. > :31:25.always win out over big? No I think the United States with all its
:31:26. > :31:32.impossible conflicts shows that you can have a big power, providing it
:31:33. > :31:37.deinvolves a lot of authority in the state it comprises of. It depends on
:31:38. > :31:41.the quality of big and the quality of small. There is another thing
:31:42. > :31:51.about federation, a federation is a beautiful thing, but a federation
:31:52. > :31:56.that is simply hastily invented to head secession, isn't going to last.
:31:57. > :32:00.I agree with you about that. Doesn't it show if nothing else how quickly
:32:01. > :32:05.you can effect change if you want to? What does, I'm sorry? This whole
:32:06. > :32:10.campaign shows how quickly can you change things if you want to? If
:32:11. > :32:16.there is a no result there has to be a period in which frantic sweaty
:32:17. > :32:20.speculation settles down into honest detailed discussion of the future of
:32:21. > :32:31.Britain. That is not a bad thing. Thank you very much indeed. You have
:32:32. > :32:36.all heard the endangered species, the question is why, what happened,
:32:37. > :32:44.to the Conservatives who until the 1980s have flourished here. I name
:32:45. > :32:49.this ship Britannia. The dawn of the new Elizabethan age. When Britannia
:32:50. > :32:51.was launched on the Clyde, Scotland's Conservatives were
:32:52. > :32:56.approaching their high water mark. But the following general election
:32:57. > :33:00.in 1955, the party not only won a majority of Scottish seats, but also
:33:01. > :33:14.of votes and astonishing achievements. But not perhaps as
:33:15. > :33:19.Astonishing as when this was brought to Leith not a single seat was held
:33:20. > :33:24.here by the Conservatives, the party was wiped out. I travelled then with
:33:25. > :33:29.the new Conservative leader with William Hague, on his mission to
:33:30. > :33:33.rescue the Conservative Party. How will you revive the party? I
:33:34. > :33:37.have come to listen not lecture them. The Conservative Party needs
:33:38. > :33:41.to do a good deal of listening over the coming months. One of the people
:33:42. > :33:45.he was listening was Malcolm Rifkind, who had just lost his seat,
:33:46. > :33:51.he told me of his hopes for a swift recovery. 17 years later I visited
:33:52. > :33:57.Mr Rifkind again to remind him of his previous words and ask why it
:33:58. > :34:01.hasn't happened, he says the problem is not particularly Conservatism?
:34:02. > :34:04.People think the political divide is Scotland and England, it is not, it
:34:05. > :34:08.is north and south. North begins north of the Midlands. At the moment
:34:09. > :34:12.we have Conservative councillors in Edinburgh, Dundee, Glasgow,
:34:13. > :34:14.Aberdeen, there is not a single Conservative councillor in
:34:15. > :34:18.Liverpool, Newcastle or Manchester. The left have been much stronger and
:34:19. > :34:24.in Scotland that includes the nationalists. In Scotland, in Wales,
:34:25. > :34:33.in the north of England, the strength of the Tory Party is south
:34:34. > :34:37.of the Midlands. Scottish Conservatives found one of the most
:34:38. > :34:42.important cards they held, nationalism, no longer worked well
:34:43. > :34:46.in a Scottish context, because their brand of nationalism, unionism, was
:34:47. > :34:50.increasingly even as the antithesis of Scottishness.
:34:51. > :34:54.A Tory Government in Westminster without a majority in Scotland,
:34:55. > :34:58.allowed the other parties to further portray the Conservatives as an
:34:59. > :35:03.alien force. The narrative in the 1980s and it is worth rembering in
:35:04. > :35:07.1979 one in three Scots voted for Thatcher's Conservative Party, she
:35:08. > :35:13.was never as unpopular as mythology now dictates. But throughout the 80s
:35:14. > :35:16.Labour primarily and also the SNP argued that Thatcher had no mandate
:35:17. > :35:21.to govern Scotland because she didn't have a majority of the vote,
:35:22. > :35:28.even though she had 22 MPs. They chipped away over the 80s and 90s,
:35:29. > :35:33.with large sections of the press and civic Scotland on side, it
:35:34. > :35:37.culminates in 1997 when you have a Tory wipe-out and that argument that
:35:38. > :35:42.Tories have no place in Scotland appears to be vindicated. The impact
:35:43. > :35:45.was to weaken the case for a pooled Government of the political union,
:35:46. > :35:48.and a Conservative Prime Minister begging Scotland not to vote for
:35:49. > :35:52.independence simply to punish his party. I think people can feel it is
:35:53. > :35:56.a bit like a general election, that you make a decision and five years
:35:57. > :36:02.later you can make another decision if you are fete up with the "effing
:36:03. > :36:15.Tories" and we will give them a kick. This is totally different!
:36:16. > :36:18.The idea that Scotland is now a Tory-free zone is some what
:36:19. > :36:28.overdone, at the last general election the SNP got slightly shy of
:36:29. > :36:32.414,000, and Tories 410,000, their votes spread out all over the
:36:33. > :36:35.country. This sweet, the last one they managed to hang on. Their big
:36:36. > :36:42.enemy now, the Westminster voting system. If you live by the "first
:36:43. > :36:48.past the post" you sometimes die by it. We are in the same position as
:36:49. > :36:51.the liberal, once the SNP became the main alternative to Labour, for
:36:52. > :36:55.Westminster elections very difficult to be right at the top of the list
:36:56. > :37:01.when people come to vote. Here it is then. The office of the last
:37:02. > :37:08.Conservative MP in Scotland. For the moment at least. The party
:37:09. > :37:12.has done better in elections for the Scottish Parliament, only because
:37:13. > :37:16.they use a form of PR. Is there perhaps an enduring Scottish
:37:17. > :37:21.Conservative ideolgical legacy? Now independence is framed almost in
:37:22. > :37:29.Thatcherite terms, low corporation tax, low personal taxation,
:37:30. > :37:33.entrepenural and business-friendly, in that sense Thatcher and
:37:34. > :37:39.Conservative ideology continues even on the cusp of an independence
:37:40. > :37:43.referendum. What next then for Scotland's shrunken blue flock. That
:37:44. > :37:53.like everything else depends on what happens on Thursday.
:37:54. > :37:56.David Mundell is the last Conservative MP, and Alastair
:37:57. > :38:04.Campbell rejoins u we will hear from him as well. When David Cameron
:38:05. > :38:08.comes to Scotland and talks about the "effing Tories" how does that
:38:09. > :38:10.make you feel? The point is this referendum is the most important
:38:11. > :38:14.decision we will make about the future of Scotland, and it is not
:38:15. > :38:21.about an individual political party or David Cameron. He's slagging off
:38:22. > :38:24.your party? He's highlighting it isn't about the Conservative Party,
:38:25. > :38:27.whether or not people like it, it is not about the Labour Party or Ed
:38:28. > :38:31.Miliband. It is not an opinion poll. It is not a game. This is real, this
:38:32. > :38:36.is the biggest decision we will ever take and it shouldn't be based on
:38:37. > :38:41.things which are transitory. The fact he has said, not once but about
:38:42. > :38:46.three times, he keeps going on about how unpopular the Tories are here,
:38:47. > :38:50.why are they? I don't accept that the Tories are unpopular with
:38:51. > :38:56.certain groups within Scotland. But as David pointed out in the piece,
:38:57. > :39:00.over 400,000 people, one in six people voted Conservative in the
:39:01. > :39:06.general election. We got one in 59 MPs because of the electoral system,
:39:07. > :39:10.we accept that. But we have seen under Ruth Davidson our new leader
:39:11. > :39:20.in Scotland a bit of a resurgence in the party. This was the only part of
:39:21. > :39:23.the U king Dom where -- United Kingdom whose vote went up in the
:39:24. > :39:26.European elections. When David Cameron turns up is it an asset for
:39:27. > :39:30.you? I think it is very important the Prime Minister of the United
:39:31. > :39:35.Kingdom comes to Scotland. I didn't hear you say yes? He is an asset and
:39:36. > :39:38.he was here in Moffat recently and well received. Is he on your
:39:39. > :39:42.literature, do you talk about David Cameron when you knock on doors? Of
:39:43. > :39:47.course I do. I supported David Cameron for the leadership of the UK
:39:48. > :39:52.Conservative Party, but also within Scotland we have our own leader in
:39:53. > :39:56.Ruth Davidson. One of the identified stars of this referendum campaign,
:39:57. > :39:59.somebody who has been very passionate about the United Kingdom
:40:00. > :40:03.and somebody who is not a stereotypical Tory in the way that
:40:04. > :40:06.people try to portray us. His Government in 1997 wiped you out,
:40:07. > :40:12.and since then the only comeback you have got is you, with the best will
:40:13. > :40:16.in the world. You are the only resurgent story since 1997. My
:40:17. > :40:20.question is under a devolved and independent Scotland, could you
:40:21. > :40:28.start all over again. Could it be beneficial for the Tories? Let's not
:40:29. > :40:33.forget we have 15 MSPs and an MEP. So you don't have a problem in
:40:34. > :40:36.Scotland? We have to grow in Scotland, and under Ruth's
:40:37. > :40:39.leadership, she has been the game-changer in relation to more
:40:40. > :40:42.powers, it was a fact that the Conservatives came out with
:40:43. > :40:46.devolving income tax to the Scottish Parliament back in May, not just two
:40:47. > :40:51.weeks ago, back in May, that has been a real game-changer in terms of
:40:52. > :40:55.the powers debate. What do you think the effect of the Conservatives has
:40:56. > :40:58.been on this campaign? I do agree I think Ruth Davies has been a very
:40:59. > :41:01.effective campaigner. I have been impressed by what I have seen of
:41:02. > :41:05.her. And I think she has made a very, very good case for the union.
:41:06. > :41:09.To be absolutely frank, wrong there has been enough that have in this
:41:10. > :41:13.campaign. I actually, I'm probably in a minority in this, and I know
:41:14. > :41:20.there has been a view that you should keep Cameron away because the
:41:21. > :41:25.Tories are a bit toxic, I spoke to George Osborne a few weeks ago and I
:41:26. > :41:28.said when he came up here and made the economic case for the country
:41:29. > :41:33.staying together, he moved the dial and then he made the case and flew
:41:34. > :41:37.back straight away. He FLILTed in and FLILTed out according to Alex
:41:38. > :41:40.Salmond. What should he have done? I believe there should have been a
:41:41. > :41:43.more concerted argument by all of the mainstream parties and the
:41:44. > :41:48.anti-nationalist parties. Some people would say you are living in a
:41:49. > :41:53.dream world, you think that the no and Better Together campaign has won
:41:54. > :41:57.a good ground war and sold their arguments well? No, what I'm saying
:41:58. > :42:01.is I think, look, politicians like Ed Miliband got a bit of a knock
:42:02. > :42:04.about today, politicians have to show they are really passionate and
:42:05. > :42:07.care about an argument. To be frank, I don't think that the Conservative
:42:08. > :42:13.Party in Westminster has done enough to show that they really, really
:42:14. > :42:19.care for the union. I think Ruth Davies has in this campaign. Do you
:42:20. > :42:22.regret the Blair Government started the whole devolution bandwagon? I
:42:23. > :42:25.don't think so, it is clear what people in Scotland wanted. I think
:42:26. > :42:31.the Conservatives made a mistake not in terms of making a principled
:42:32. > :42:35.opposition to devolution, but for seeming to block it. I think it was
:42:36. > :42:38.clear it had become the settled will of the Scottish people, now we have
:42:39. > :42:41.to work to make it work better. One of the things that has come out of
:42:42. > :42:44.it. So if it is independence and that is the will of the Scottish
:42:45. > :42:48.people, that is fine too according to your logic? It is not fine,
:42:49. > :42:53.because I'm arguing for Scotland to remain in the United Kingdom. I will
:42:54. > :42:56.do that until 10.00 on the 18th. If the people of Scotland decide they
:42:57. > :43:01.want to be independent from the rest of the United Kingdom, that is their
:43:02. > :43:04.verdict and we will work to make it work. You have nothing but praise
:43:05. > :43:07.for the way David Cameron has handled the campaign then? I
:43:08. > :43:13.wouldn't say, that I do think one of the reasons why it has got as close
:43:14. > :43:18.as it has is because Simon ran rings around Cameron in the negotiations
:43:19. > :43:21.for the referendum. I think that the argument has not been made
:43:22. > :43:26.passionately enough up until now I think when we look back on this
:43:27. > :43:30.campaign, that opinion poll, it is ridiculous that it should taken a
:43:31. > :43:35.opinion poll to galvanise people. But that YouGov poll ten days ago or
:43:36. > :43:39.whatever, suddenly the business community who kept their heads down
:43:40. > :43:42.hoping not to get engaged and the Westminster parties thinking this is
:43:43. > :43:45.close and we have to get stuck in properly and do this properly and
:43:46. > :43:49.then engage in a way. The last ten days FLOOENG the debate in here has
:43:50. > :43:55.been absolutely fantastic. Thank you very much indeed. 30 miles that way
:43:56. > :43:58.lies the border with England, a border that by Thursday that could
:43:59. > :44:02.have a whole new significance if tax is set by a new independent Scotland
:44:03. > :44:06.and corporation rates and levies are lowered this side. How will that
:44:07. > :44:18.affect the business decisions of all those living a short car ride away.
:44:19. > :44:21.By train Newcastle is three hours from London but only an
:44:22. > :44:24.hour-and-a-half from Edinburgh. Whatever the result of this vote is
:44:25. > :44:32.Scotland will have new powers. That could have a big effect on the
:44:33. > :44:37.economy in the north-east. Local businesses are still working out the
:44:38. > :44:41.format. But even if there is a no vote new tax powers for Scotland
:44:42. > :44:45.could affect north eastern firms. What if there are changes in
:44:46. > :44:49.corporation tax, which companies will be here in the north-east will
:44:50. > :44:56.be attracted for those reasons to go up to Scotland? What if they have
:44:57. > :45:01.special powers to incentivise inward investment, next time a Nissan, who
:45:02. > :45:04.are based on Sunderland, comes along, or Hitachi in Durham, vital
:45:05. > :45:12.to our economy, will they come here or Scotland. What about air
:45:13. > :45:16.passenger duty what if they manage to lower their's, who will fly out
:45:17. > :45:20.of Newcastle airport. There is a feeling whatever Scotland decides
:45:21. > :45:27.will have influence here. But that local people haven't been asked for
:45:28. > :45:31.their views. We have the editor of Viz. It's like if your neighbour
:45:32. > :45:36.gets a colour television in the 1960s, and you start looking through
:45:37. > :45:40.the window and going they have a colour telly, or your neighbour gets
:45:41. > :45:45.a car or phone and you think you need those, because we are a bit
:45:46. > :45:49.neglected. Scotland is neglected by London and so are we, but the
:45:50. > :45:53.landlord is saying you can buy your house if you want, you can take on
:45:54. > :45:56.the mortgage and all the responsibility and you can go away
:45:57. > :46:02.and look after it yourself, and we are sort of thinking maybe we should
:46:03. > :46:07.do that as well. I have an artist's impression of how I envisage the
:46:08. > :46:13.future. Basically reinstating the Roman wall and what we have is a
:46:14. > :46:18.slab racial between the jocks and the Gordies, from London we are
:46:19. > :46:23.viewed as the desolate north, if we rebuild the Roman wall and join up
:46:24. > :46:28.with the Scots, then we will become the affluent south! Historically the
:46:29. > :46:31.River Tyne has always been at the heart of the Newcastle economy. That
:46:32. > :46:33.is still the case today. Unemployment up here in the
:46:34. > :46:37.north-east is higher than any other part in the UK. Things have been
:46:38. > :46:42.getting better, in the last year employment growth has been faster in
:46:43. > :46:45.this region than anywhere else. But developments in Scotland threaten
:46:46. > :46:45.this region than anywhere else. But blow this recovery completely off
:46:46. > :46:51.course. You blow this recovery completely off
:46:52. > :46:57.in here? We have, there is a vast range of businesses that take space
:46:58. > :47:00.in the yard. Charley Holt of Holt's Yard just outside the centre of
:47:01. > :47:06.Newcastle thinks the fears are overblown? We have a yard here full
:47:07. > :47:10.of 90 small businesses, but all of them export, all of them look
:47:11. > :47:16.overseas. You know there is a guy who sells trainers on the Internet,
:47:17. > :47:20.you look at his DHL book, 75% are going overseas, you look at the guys
:47:21. > :47:24.designing T-shirts, half of the business is in Europe and half in
:47:25. > :47:28.the US, and a bit in the UK. Small businesses are now international.
:47:29. > :47:32.The small businesses that rent this yard are a north eastern success
:47:33. > :47:36.story, but what is happening just across the border in Scotland could
:47:37. > :47:39.put it all at risk, independence, or even devolution is often seen as a
:47:40. > :47:45.political and constitutional question. But it could have a huge
:47:46. > :47:51.economic impact. I didn't really appreciate until quite recently the
:47:52. > :47:54.economic impact. I didn't really range of powers they may get. Jeremy
:47:55. > :47:57.Middleton thinks the north has to start preparing now, whichever
:47:58. > :48:00.Middleton thinks the north has to the vote goes. Those responsible for
:48:01. > :48:02.economic development in the north of England, that is the Local
:48:03. > :48:05.Enterprise Partnerships, who also represent all of local Government,
:48:06. > :48:09.need to be talking to the Government in Scotland and the Government in
:48:10. > :48:12.Westminster. Let's work together to get a solution that will build both
:48:13. > :48:21.our economies. Let's not start a trade war. Let's not start fighting
:48:22. > :48:24.with each other. The people of Scotland will decide their future
:48:25. > :48:28.this week, but the debate about the future of the north is just
:48:29. > :48:33.beginning. As I mentioned at the very
:48:34. > :48:36.beginning, talks that began some 40 years ago today will end this week.
:48:37. > :48:40.Isabel Hardman of the Spectator and Richard Walker of the Sunday Herald
:48:41. > :48:44.are seeing it through to pretty much the bitter end. It is very
:48:45. > :48:48.interesting that your paper is the only one, am I right Richard, the
:48:49. > :48:53.Sunday Herald is the only one that has come out in favour of a yes
:48:54. > :48:57.vote? That's correct. Isn't that extraordinary that this whole
:48:58. > :49:01.campaign will have been waged without the media seeming to have
:49:02. > :49:05.split at all? I think it is, that is one of the reasons why Alex Salmond
:49:06. > :49:09.has developed this persecution complex, that all the media are
:49:10. > :49:13.against him. That is quite effective for SNP supporters to feel that
:49:14. > :49:18.everyone is against them, because it galvanises them to campaign harder
:49:19. > :49:21.and fight heard. It is the same with all insurgent parties, UKIP, the
:49:22. > :49:24.Liberal Democrats when they were an insurgent party too, they had the
:49:25. > :49:27.complex that the world was against them and they had to band and stick
:49:28. > :49:32.together. What do you think it says, without being too much of a naval
:49:33. > :49:36.gazer here, that all the media seem to be on one side, does it suggest
:49:37. > :49:41.they are completely out of step with public opinion? I can only speak for
:49:42. > :49:44.the spectator, we are passionately pro-union because we believe in the
:49:45. > :49:50.union and our readers believe in the union. As for Scottish media... I
:49:51. > :49:56.think it is odd, I think it is odd that even in most polls suggesting
:49:57. > :50:00.around about 48-54% of the population support independence, and
:50:01. > :50:03.only one newspaper is on those people's side, I think there is
:50:04. > :50:07.democratic deficit there definitely. Do you feel the yes campaign has
:50:08. > :50:11.just come off the boil at this point. The polls that sent everyone
:50:12. > :50:15.into such a frenzy ten days ago now seem to be sort of softening a bit
:50:16. > :50:20.don't they? I don't think they have come off the boil at all. I think
:50:21. > :50:24.the country is so engaged in this debate, which has just been the most
:50:25. > :50:28.fantastic debate I have seen in this country. I think you have got polls
:50:29. > :50:32.that put it up two points or down two points, out in the streets you
:50:33. > :50:40.see the yes campaigners passionately arguing their case. You don't see so
:50:41. > :50:44.many no campaigners out there, in Glasgow on Saturday the whole of the
:50:45. > :50:48.street was taken over by yes campaigners, there was almost a
:50:49. > :50:52.carnival-like atmosphere, bands playing. What do you do with 48
:50:53. > :50:55.hours, if you are the Better Together campaign now, what are your
:50:56. > :50:58.parting shots do you think? I don't think they should be parting shots,
:50:59. > :51:02.it is about the positive case for the union. Making people feel they
:51:03. > :51:07.are making a positive decision to vote no, rather than they are just
:51:08. > :51:10.being kill joys. That is what is important. Did you agree with
:51:11. > :51:13.Alastair Campbell, I don't know if you heard that, broadly George
:51:14. > :51:17.Osborne should have come up here, stayed up here and carried on making
:51:18. > :51:21.the point. It wasn't about the head versus the heart campaign at all?
:51:22. > :51:25.The heart campaign is really important and I'm not sure there has
:51:26. > :51:28.been enough of that, enough of the positive case for the United Kingdom
:51:29. > :51:32.as a whole and what it has achieved. We have only seen that coming from
:51:33. > :51:36.the Westminster parties in the last few week, I'm not sure they have
:51:37. > :51:39.given enough time on that. I don't think the Westminster parties
:51:40. > :51:45.understand the difference between a negative and political campaign, at
:51:46. > :51:51.the very start of the campaign we had a chat with Alasdair Darling and
:51:52. > :51:55.about it being negative? He said no way we have wage add very positive
:51:56. > :52:00.campaign and he was saying the same last week. I don't know anyone who
:52:01. > :52:05.can look at the campaign and say it was not positive. Their strategy has
:52:06. > :52:11.been to maintain a poll lead rather than expand the case, that has been
:52:12. > :52:16.an an error. That your for the warm welcome in Moffat and to all who
:52:17. > :52:19.came, the studio audience with us. Tomorrow night the Newsnight tent
:52:20. > :52:23.moves on to Glasgow, we bring you the final day of coverage before
:52:24. > :52:29.polls close. And we would also try to bring together as many of the
:52:30. > :52:33.still undecided voters as we possibly can before Scotland goes to
:52:34. > :52:42.the polls and votes in the historic Reverend DHAUM could -- referendum
:52:43. > :52:48.that could change the lives of everyone. We are joined by our Ceile
:52:49. > :53:44.band now. Sweet dreams. The low cloud from the east
:53:45. > :53:48.overnight, many places starting off grey and misty, sunshine quick air
:53:49. > :53:51.cross shelter, western areas, developing widely through the day.
:53:52. > :53:56.Some eastern parts of England and Scotland could stay dull and grey
:53:57. > :53:57.all day. Not so Northern Ireland, we should see a bit of sunshine