:00:07. > :00:11.Welcome to Manchester, four years ago in this place Ed Miliband saw
:00:12. > :00:15.off his brother to become his party's leader. But this week he
:00:16. > :00:20.must show he's ready to lead the country.
:00:21. > :00:24.We're becoming a low-productivity, low-skill, low-wage economy, we need
:00:25. > :00:27.to decisively break out of that. In Ed Miliband we have the first Labour
:00:28. > :00:31.leader since John Smith with the strength of character to do that. Ed
:00:32. > :00:36.Balls endeavoured to show the party's numbers add up. People are
:00:37. > :00:42.relying on us to deliver, conference we will not let them down. But
:00:43. > :00:46.constitutional wriggling after Scotland's vote has distracted minds
:00:47. > :00:51.here. Energy concentrated not on the election, but the birth of so called
:00:52. > :00:55.English Labour. We will talk to one of Labour's new generation, the
:00:56. > :01:09.shadow Education Secretary, Tristram Hunt.
:01:10. > :01:13.Good evening, party conferences may sometimes be derided as insular
:01:14. > :01:16.affairs. Not when there is a general election in a matter of months, and
:01:17. > :01:19.not when there is a general election coming that is agonisingly hard to
:01:20. > :01:24.predict. There are no bones about it. This week is one of Ed
:01:25. > :01:30.Miliband's last big opportunities to explain who he is and what he offers
:01:31. > :01:34.to make case, that for many members of the public has so far not
:01:35. > :01:37.convinced. But many of his own MPs here have spent much of the day
:01:38. > :01:43.tangling over whether their Scottish colleagues should be allowed to vote
:01:44. > :01:47.on English-only issues. A headache Mr Miliband could probably do
:01:48. > :01:53.without as he tries to explain what a Labour future would look like and
:01:54. > :02:01.escape memories of the past. So keep on winning, and do it with
:02:02. > :02:07.optimisim. I know what I believe, I know who I am, I know what I want to
:02:08. > :02:11.do in this job (Voice of Gordon Brown) The big stage can be a lonely
:02:12. > :02:17.place, but Labour's leader now, needs more than words. It is four
:02:18. > :02:20.years since Ed Miliband won the leadership so dramatically from his
:02:21. > :02:24.brother. Four years since he promise he had would take his party back to
:02:25. > :02:27.power. But with seven months now just to go until the general
:02:28. > :02:32.election there are still plenty of obstacles that stand in his way. Not
:02:33. > :02:37.least his own appeal. Labour may be ahead in the poll, but as a leader
:02:38. > :02:40.he's way behind. Labour in some ways has two main challenges, one is that
:02:41. > :02:43.the Conservatives are actually extending their lead in terms of
:02:44. > :02:47.their competence to run the economy. And the other is simply their
:02:48. > :02:51.leader, who is currently about as unpopular as William Hague was in
:02:52. > :02:57.the run-up to the 2001 general election, which you will remember
:02:58. > :03:01.that he lost. It is Ed Balls who has to make all that add up. Freezing
:03:02. > :03:06.child benefit for an extra year will help a little, not a lot. Yes, the
:03:07. > :03:10.Tories are deeply unpopular, yes the country is crying out for change,
:03:11. > :03:16.but even after the progress and successes of our last four years we
:03:17. > :03:20.have more to do, to show Labour can deliver the change people want to
:03:21. > :03:23.see, that we have learned from our time in Government. To show that we
:03:24. > :03:28.will make the tough decisions to get the deficit down, thank we can
:03:29. > :03:32.change our economy. Beyond getting the numbers right, this week is one
:03:33. > :03:38.of Ed Miliband's few formal chances to nail down what his hypothetical
:03:39. > :03:42.Government would do that is real. What voters beyond this hall might
:03:43. > :03:47.be persuaded by and what they can expect. We are becoming a
:03:48. > :03:51.low-productivity, low-skill, low-wage economy, you need to
:03:52. > :03:54.decisively break out of that. In Ed Miliband we have the first Labour
:03:55. > :03:58.leader since John Smith with the strength of character to do that. He
:03:59. > :04:01.just has to talk about the finance agenda. He has to talk about, as he
:04:02. > :04:05.is doing, I think he has to talk about the way that people are
:04:06. > :04:08.struggling. I think the majority of people don't feel like the economy
:04:09. > :04:12.has got better I think that most people feel like it has got worse. I
:04:13. > :04:17.think the party has travelled an awful long way. Look at the things
:04:18. > :04:21.we were talking about now, these were unheard of one election ago by
:04:22. > :04:25.new Labour, they wouldn't discuss any of this stuff, housing, it never
:04:26. > :04:29.got off the agenda. It is a better and more balanced approach. It has
:04:30. > :04:35.been forced. By the unions? By the fact that millions of people have
:04:36. > :04:39.stopped voting Labour. It is about being clear about inequality, about
:04:40. > :04:44.opportunity, and setting out a real alternative vision. Ed has said many
:04:45. > :04:47.times this is all about choice, and this is the election of choice. It
:04:48. > :04:52.is the most important election for a generation. An extra tax to pay more
:04:53. > :04:57.cash for the NHS seems will be part of the offer. But only voters will
:04:58. > :05:02.determine next year how that is received.
:05:03. > :05:07.That idea of more tax to go for the NHS is one of the ideas we sort of
:05:08. > :05:11.expect in the speech tomorrow, our political editor is here. What will
:05:12. > :05:15.he say? We do expect that extra boost for the NHS, we have had many
:05:16. > :05:18.reports in the last few weeks and months about it heading for a real
:05:19. > :05:22.cash crunch. He will boost that tomorrow. We think it will be paid
:05:23. > :05:41.for out of a "Mansion Tax" on houses above ?2 million. But also more
:05:42. > :05:45.originally something called Sin-tax, it exaggerates the polls. Labour
:05:46. > :05:49.polls streets ahead on the NHS, it plays to that, it paints also the
:05:50. > :05:52.Conservatives in a nasty place, they are the vested interests, the
:05:53. > :05:56.friends of big companies, don't understand how it is to live like
:05:57. > :06:00.real people. It is still talking about introducing new taxes, not
:06:01. > :06:03.always popular, will this help? Indeed, there is two big central
:06:04. > :06:07.questions this doesn't help at all. The first is the fiscal credibility
:06:08. > :06:11.question, especially talk of we were going to use "Mansion Tax" to pay
:06:12. > :06:15.for one thing now we are shifting it slightly, it is slightly smoke and
:06:16. > :06:19.mirrors. There is another central question which is Ed Miliband's own
:06:20. > :06:22.personal ratings, saw in a graphic that Labour is polling very well but
:06:23. > :06:25.Ed Miliband isn't polling so well. In the next eight months the
:06:26. > :06:29.question will be can the Labour brand carry the leader. That is not
:06:30. > :06:31.a good place for him to be in. I think to address that they are doing
:06:32. > :06:37.the following tomorrow, in his speech he will talk about a ten-year
:06:38. > :06:43.plan, what Britain will be like in 2025, people are talking about
:06:44. > :06:46.chairman Millie! They have set out lots of detail on six key areas
:06:47. > :06:50.where they want Britain to be. That is them asserting they know it is a
:06:51. > :06:54.credibility problem. If they have targets they have to meet people may
:06:55. > :07:03.believe them a bit more. We will talk about it tomorrow. What can you
:07:04. > :07:07.be pretty sure of is Ed Miliband's ten-year plan won't make him a
:07:08. > :07:10.sudden convert to the ideas of banning Scottish MPs to vote on
:07:11. > :07:13.English-only matters like David Cameron. Some in his party think his
:07:14. > :07:17.position on sorting out the devolution mess has not gone nearly
:07:18. > :07:21.far enough. Rather than spending time pressing the flesh here, some
:07:22. > :07:27.MPs scuttled off for a private meeting to talk about what could end
:07:28. > :07:41.up as English Labour. We were watching their every move.
:07:42. > :07:46.Look familiar, Manchester Town Hall, so often a Westminster stand in for
:07:47. > :07:51.TV dramas through the ages, perhaps one day not the understudy, but
:07:52. > :07:56.parliament all of its own. This morning it is where worried Labour
:07:57. > :08:00.MPs are gathering. We are told there is a meeting in the corridor at the
:08:01. > :08:04.top here, it is to discuss Labour's response to the handover of powers
:08:05. > :08:07.to Scotland ostensibly, but actually it is a crisis meeting to discuss
:08:08. > :08:11.Labour on the English question. Some of the party's most senior figures
:08:12. > :08:16.will be here shortly because they think Ed Miliband isn't yet doing
:08:17. > :08:22.enough. Are you here for the English crisis meeting? No Are you here for
:08:23. > :08:25.the English identity meeting, 301, you are, right. Bit of a crisis at
:08:26. > :08:31.the moment isn't it? Not in the least. Are you laughing at why we
:08:32. > :08:35.are calling it that? Some attendee, including Labour MPs think their
:08:36. > :08:41.party must speak up for more English voters. We have to address the West
:08:42. > :08:46.Lothian problem that has been around for decades. 150 years? Longer than
:08:47. > :08:49.any of us have been alive. You don't solve a problem long standing in a
:08:50. > :08:53.few months, do you it properly and with a cool head. The people in this
:08:54. > :08:57.room are hopeful more powers to Scots means more powers to English
:08:58. > :09:04.cities and regions. Later they announce the creation of an English
:09:05. > :09:08.Labour Party to reach out to albion. Some think Ed Miliband must have
:09:09. > :09:12.more to stay on his 40 Scottish MPs. This man writing Labour's manifesto
:09:13. > :09:16.and expert on Englishness is put on the spot. I think there is a huge
:09:17. > :09:20.opportunity for Labour to put meat on the bones of the convention we
:09:21. > :09:22.have begun to talk about. About what constitutes the settlement for
:09:23. > :09:25.England and who speaks for England. We have been talking about an
:09:26. > :09:29.English Labour identity that we need to forge. That is a very interesting
:09:30. > :09:32.debate. We have to crack open this conversation now. Labour's policy
:09:33. > :09:37.chief there talking about who speaks for England. But others see no
:09:38. > :09:41.problem. What do you all think about the move
:09:42. > :09:45.on the Scottish MPs, is it really unfair? Barmy, we should leave the
:09:46. > :09:50.Scottish MPs with full voting powers. It is ridiculous, and
:09:51. > :09:54.Cameron playing dirty tricks and receding from his promises. Others
:09:55. > :09:58.are happy with Scottish MPs voting but have other problems with Ed
:09:59. > :10:02.Miliband's vow to Scotland? Lord Barnet is an old friend of mine, he
:10:03. > :10:06.told me Jim Callaghan asked him to come up with a formula for a year,
:10:07. > :10:10.look how long it has lasted, 30 years. The fact is, yes, let's look
:10:11. > :10:14.at it afresh, I want to be generous to Scotland, but I also want fair
:10:15. > :10:17.shares for Scotland and the other northern regions. Labour thinks it
:10:18. > :10:24.can see off the Tories because voters don't care about the West
:10:25. > :10:27.Lothian Question. So we went to an aJase seventh conference,
:10:28. > :10:34.Manchester's Food and Wine Fair, a mile away. How do you feel about the
:10:35. > :10:38.West Lothian Question? What? That is about Scottish people having power
:10:39. > :10:43.in the English parliament and us not having powers in their's. That is
:10:44. > :10:48.one proud politics teacher. Who else? English votes for English
:10:49. > :10:52.people. What does that mean? It means we should vote on our own laws
:10:53. > :10:59.and what we want in England and let Scotland do what they want in
:11:00. > :11:03.Scotland. How do you feel about the West Lothian Question? Is that funny
:11:04. > :11:07.is it? Yeah, I'm probably not great person to ask. You don't think that
:11:08. > :11:10.the Scottish Labour MPs are a problem? I wouldn't seen think that
:11:11. > :11:16.Scottish Tory MPs were a problem if it was all Tory. There is tension in
:11:17. > :11:20.Manchester, yes, some MPs think David Cameron has been unprincipled
:11:21. > :11:24.in targeting Scottish MPs voting on English laws. But then there are
:11:25. > :11:28.Labour MPs who agree with him, and today behind the scenes there has
:11:29. > :11:31.been much politicking to suppress their views. This group need Ed
:11:32. > :11:38.Miliband tomorrow to say something significant in his speech on the
:11:39. > :11:42.issue in order for them to be happy. Away from Manchester at the Prime
:11:43. > :11:46.Minister's Chequers residence, Tories did not back down from
:11:47. > :11:49.limiting Scottish voting rights. If other parties make it impossible to
:11:50. > :11:54.deal with this issue in tandem, then of course it will be an issue at the
:11:55. > :12:01.general election in May. The people of the country will decide. Two
:12:02. > :12:04.years ago Ed Miliband talked in Manchester of one-nation Labour,
:12:05. > :12:08.now, on the eve of the election, many in the hall tomorrow want him
:12:09. > :12:13.to talk of more powers for four nation, not one.
:12:14. > :12:17.The shadow education secretary, Tristram Hunt, is here with us in
:12:18. > :12:19.the exhibition hall, just outside the main part of the conference.
:12:20. > :12:23.Thank you for being with us, this should be a very big moment, we are
:12:24. > :12:31.just seven months out from the election. But instead today we have
:12:32. > :12:35.had senior figures, people like John Denham and Mr Bradshaw focus today
:12:36. > :12:38.on a gap in the party's response to a very old problem? I think this is
:12:39. > :12:42.the beginning of the debate we want to see about English identity and
:12:43. > :12:46.English representation. I think what we saw in Scotland was, on the one
:12:47. > :12:50.hand, great celebration of democracy and the artists and the musicians
:12:51. > :12:53.and historians involved in a debate about Scottish democracy and the
:12:54. > :12:57.referendum. But also a strong sense of a disconnect between the public
:12:58. > :13:01.and the politicians. Our fear about what's going on with the sort of
:13:02. > :13:04.post-referendum analysis is what we don't want to do is limit it
:13:05. > :13:09.conversation. So what we are seeing on the fringe today, with John
:13:10. > :13:11.Cruddas saying let's bring open the question and have discussion about
:13:12. > :13:14.where Labour is within that. That is part of the beginning of that
:13:15. > :13:19.conversation about Labour's place within a United Kingdom. But what is
:13:20. > :13:25.also part of that conversation, loud and clear, from the senior figures
:13:26. > :13:28.in the party, is that Labour must say and must say now, you know what,
:13:29. > :13:31.the situation where Scottish MPs can vote on things that don't have
:13:32. > :13:35.anything to do with their constituents has to come to an end?
:13:36. > :13:39.I mean my starting point on this is slightly different. Which is all but
:13:40. > :13:42.two UK Governments in the 20th century had an English majority. So
:13:43. > :13:46.I think what the Labour Party does on the back of this referendum and
:13:47. > :13:50.this conversation is make sure we work even harder to win those
:13:51. > :13:53.English seats in Harlow, in Stevenage, and Norwich to make sure
:13:54. > :13:57.we have an English majority and Scottish majority and a Welsh
:13:58. > :14:04.majority. But I also think we need to lean in to our Great British
:14:05. > :14:07.identity. You know, I saw you last in Scotland, in Glasgow, Paisley,
:14:08. > :14:11.fighting for the United Kingdom. We don't then want to dismantle the
:14:12. > :14:15.United Kingdom in Westminster. Once you beginning to down the road of
:14:16. > :14:19.two-tier MPs you are beginning to dismantle the British constitution
:14:20. > :14:22.as we know it at the moment. Except, there are already two-tier MPs,
:14:23. > :14:26.there are already some of your colleagues able to vote on questions
:14:27. > :14:30.that affect your constituents, but don't affect their constituents.
:14:31. > :14:36.Now, why does the Labour leadership find it so difficult to say that in
:14:37. > :14:40.simple terms that is not fair. Every MP can vote on what is in front of
:14:41. > :14:44.them in the House of Commons. We have a situation where London MPs
:14:45. > :14:50.look after their transport facilities, they can vote on HS 2, I
:14:51. > :14:54.don't get to decide, as a Stoke-on-Trent MP on London
:14:55. > :14:57.Transport expenditure. We have Welsh, Northern Irish MPs, we have a
:14:58. > :15:01.multilayered constitution, and once you begin to unpick it as a sort of
:15:02. > :15:04.House Party at Chequers, which is what David Cameron seems to be
:15:05. > :15:10.doing. You are not dealing with the Combezou publicsity of it. Lots --
:15:11. > :15:15.Complexity of it. Lots of your own side are saying you need to accept
:15:16. > :15:19.this is an issue. A lot of people might agree with your analysis that
:15:20. > :15:22.what David Cameron is trying do is rushed and too quick and you have to
:15:23. > :15:26.do things gradually. On the point of principle rather than the process,
:15:27. > :15:30.surely it is time, why is it so difficult for the leadership to
:15:31. > :15:33.acknowledge it is not fair? We acknowledge there is a big issue and
:15:34. > :15:37.that there is a disconnect between the public and politicians, we also
:15:38. > :15:41.acknowledge that there has not been enough celebration and
:15:42. > :15:45.representation of English identity within a federal UK system. But we
:15:46. > :15:49.also acknowledge that the United Kingdom is a complicated federal
:15:50. > :15:53.structure. And once you begin to pull away all of it, over the next
:15:54. > :15:57.four months, to get this ready by mid-January. This is a really
:15:58. > :16:01.complicated issue and what we want is a constitutional convention to
:16:02. > :16:05.discuss it. That is not shying away from it, we accept it, we want the
:16:06. > :16:09.debate. But what we don't want it to be is limited to a Chequers House
:16:10. > :16:15.Party. We want a big public conversation about it. If you make a
:16:16. > :16:22.promise about a consultation that will last six years, as the party
:16:23. > :16:26.has suggested. Aren't you then leaving the door wide open for UKIP
:16:27. > :16:29.or the Conservatives to make play saying that the Labour Party doesn't
:16:30. > :16:34.want to pay much attention to what English people want, a new poll
:16:35. > :16:38.tonight for ComRes suggests 65% of people think it is the time now for
:16:39. > :16:42.Scottish MPs to stop voting on English-only matters. I'm happy to
:16:43. > :16:46.go into the election fighting for English votes. I'm also very happy
:16:47. > :16:51.going into the election as a Labour Party supporting Great Britain, and
:16:52. > :16:55.being patriotic British party. Is it unpatriotic to say what Ben Bradshaw
:16:56. > :17:00.and John Denham are saying and you have to address the issue? We do
:17:01. > :17:03.want to address the issue. But we don't want to pull apart the vital
:17:04. > :17:06.elements of the British constitution in four months. What we have is a
:17:07. > :17:10.terrible narrowing of the Tory vision. This was once the
:17:11. > :17:15.Conservative and Unionist Party, they seem to have lost faith in the
:17:16. > :17:17.union of Great Britain as well as withdrawing from Europe. What
:17:18. > :17:20.happened to the confidence in this country. I brief in Great Britain
:17:21. > :17:24.and the United Kingdom. I think we should have a UK parliament, but I
:17:25. > :17:27.also think we need to have a big conversation about English identity
:17:28. > :17:30.and representation within that. It is not shying away from t we think
:17:31. > :17:34.it is slightly more complicated. Again you are talking about the
:17:35. > :17:38.overall process, it maybe needs to take a longer time, we need to have
:17:39. > :17:40.a wider look at the issues. But on a simple point, for most members of
:17:41. > :17:45.the public you either think it is fair or you think it is unfair? We
:17:46. > :17:48.do not TRARD as a simple point -- regard it as a simple point, once
:17:49. > :17:53.you ask members of the public do you want to pull apart the United
:17:54. > :17:56.Kingdom. You might get a very different answer to English votes on
:17:57. > :17:58.English laws. When you begin to think about this, if you think about
:17:59. > :18:03.health funding and the research behind that. If you think about
:18:04. > :18:09.education funding and the allocation between England and Scotland and
:18:10. > :18:11.then transport, this question is more complicated and needs more
:18:12. > :18:16.time. The referendum conversation in Scotland took place over two years
:18:17. > :18:22.not four months. As a historian maybe it is your view we just have
:18:23. > :18:24.to accept this is a misnomer of our unwritten constitution is that
:18:25. > :18:30.right, you just have to accept it, it is a messy situation? There are
:18:31. > :18:35.disparities in our unwritten constitution, what I won't accept is
:18:36. > :18:38.resentment and the festering of resentment about an absence of
:18:39. > :18:41.respect for English identity and Englishness. I represent
:18:42. > :18:45.Stoke-on-Trent, the kingdom of Mercia, in the heart of England. We
:18:46. > :18:49.have a strong, proud, English identity about there. I'm proud to
:18:50. > :18:54.be an English MP in a UK parliament, we need to speak to that. Very
:18:55. > :18:57.briefly, would it be simpler then, once you have had the constitutional
:18:58. > :19:00.convention if we wrote something down and had a written constitution
:19:01. > :19:05.so everybody knew where they stood? It is one of the ironies in Great
:19:06. > :19:08.Britain that we have written more constitutions than anywhere in the
:19:09. > :19:13.world, but our ability to deliver one for ourself has held us back.
:19:14. > :19:18.2015 on the anniversary of the Magna Carta to begin the conversation. We
:19:19. > :19:21.actually have lots of documents co-defying the British constitution,
:19:22. > :19:26.bringing them together under the Laura Kuensberg memorandum! Beyond
:19:27. > :19:29.in tangle, there are two big challenges for Ed Miliband this
:19:30. > :19:37.week, one the question of economic credibility and also of his own
:19:38. > :19:40.credibility. Now four years ago he won the leadership from his brother,
:19:41. > :19:47.you didn't support him four years ago. What has he done since then to
:19:48. > :19:50.convince you he is the right leader? He has risen to the challenge of
:19:51. > :19:53.thinking about the kind of political economy Britain needs. We see this
:19:54. > :19:57.very worrying disconnect at the moment between a return to a model
:19:58. > :20:01.of growth which is not delivering for working people. And Ed
:20:02. > :20:06.Miliband's critque of how our modern economy is working and his policy
:20:07. > :20:10.response to that, we have announced this week raising the national
:20:11. > :20:14.minimum wage to ?8, cracking down on zero hours. Making sure we don't
:20:15. > :20:20.have contract workers all taken from abroad. On the one hand there is
:20:21. > :20:24.quite an overarching policy critque of our economy, on the other hand
:20:25. > :20:28.there are direct, winnable policies that I know I can go on the doorstep
:20:29. > :20:32.in Stoke-on-Trent and say this is why you vote for the Labour
:20:33. > :20:36.Government. Maybe some of the policies are cutting through, on
:20:37. > :20:40.schools, the party is pretty consistently, if narrowly, ahead in
:20:41. > :20:45.the polls. But again consistently Ed Miliband himself is way behind in
:20:46. > :20:49.his own ratings? Why is that do you think? I have worked with Ed
:20:50. > :20:53.Miliband close up now, I know first of all he's man of conviction and
:20:54. > :20:55.character, he believes deeply and passionately in this country. I
:20:56. > :20:59.think over the course of the general election we will see that. You know
:21:00. > :21:07.we can look at Margaret Thatcher's polling prior to her election, we
:21:08. > :21:11.can look at comments about Churchill about Clement Attlee, a modest man,
:21:12. > :21:15.and much to be modest about, created the welfare state and delivered
:21:16. > :21:19.freedom for India. I wouldn't hold too much on the polling. Except
:21:20. > :21:23.popularity ratings determine whether or not people can win elections. You
:21:24. > :21:27.can have a look at this with some of the previous ratings. This is the
:21:28. > :21:32.position of leaders of the opposition one year before an
:21:33. > :21:38.election, Cameron, Blair, Thatcher, all way ahead. Ed Miliband down
:21:39. > :21:43.there is only just ahead of Michael Foot, less popular than Michael
:21:44. > :21:48.Howard was before 2005. Less popular than Neil Kinnock in 1986 and 1991,
:21:49. > :21:58.less popular than William Hague when he was trying to be elected. Now
:21:59. > :22:03.this matters because those leaders didn't win. The great thing about
:22:04. > :22:07.being part of Ed Miliband's team is we are in the history-busting
:22:08. > :22:10.business. Going back into office after one-term in opposition is
:22:11. > :22:13.exactly what we are about. So I'm not really bothered about that. You
:22:14. > :22:21.are not bothered? I'm not bothered about. What I'm bothered about is
:22:22. > :22:24.policies to deliver for poorer people, an economy working for
:22:25. > :22:28.working people. When we have the standard of living crisis we're
:22:29. > :22:32.seeing, our policies on the national minimum wage, the NHS and schools,
:22:33. > :22:36.having qualified teachers in your kids' classes might be a good start.
:22:37. > :22:40.You can sit there this week and say as a front bencher who hopes to be
:22:41. > :22:45.the Education Secretary or any other job that might be bestowed on you if
:22:46. > :22:49.Labour won, that it doesn't bother you that Ed Miliband is less popular
:22:50. > :22:53.than Nick Clegg. Less popular than Nigel Farage. It is very easy to sit
:22:54. > :22:58.and say it doesn't matter. But it does if it means you won't win the
:22:59. > :23:01.election? We are going to win the election, because we will convince
:23:02. > :23:03.the British people that we have a long-term plan. Which is what Ed
:23:04. > :23:08.Miliband is talking about tomorrow. We are also going to show at the
:23:09. > :23:11.moment we have an economic model working for a very privileged few,
:23:12. > :23:14.and what we have to make sure is when growth returns to this country
:23:15. > :23:19.it delivers for the majority. We will come on to that in just a
:23:20. > :23:23.second. Do you think that people haven't understood Ed Miliband then.
:23:24. > :23:28.Have you sat there and made a very good argument for him, have they
:23:29. > :23:32.misunderstood him? I'm not overly concerned by this debate. I'm
:23:33. > :23:36.passionate about getting out there and selling our policies. Explaining
:23:37. > :23:40.how Ed Miliband will deliver them. Ed Miliband will be a powerful,
:23:41. > :23:43.creative, reforming Prime Minister, and it is my job as a Labour member
:23:44. > :23:50.of parliament to get him into office.
:23:51. > :23:56.He has to show he can be trusted to run the economy. And Ed Balls made a
:23:57. > :23:59.promised to on child benefit that will save only ?400 million, it
:24:00. > :24:02.sounds a lot, but in the context of what you have to do it is small
:24:03. > :24:05.beer. The economic polling, the party is way behind. Isn't it the
:24:06. > :24:08.truth that you are still very far back on the journey to show that
:24:09. > :24:14.Labour can be trusted with the economy again? I think Ed Balls's
:24:15. > :24:18.difficult announcement about child benefit in tough times shows we are
:24:19. > :24:22.very serious about dealing with the debt and deficit. And this, you
:24:23. > :24:26.know, it is not going to solve the public spending crisis that we will
:24:27. > :24:31.inherit because this Government has shot to pieces our public finances.
:24:32. > :24:36.But it is an important symbol about the rigour. It may do more to
:24:37. > :24:41.restore public finances? No, debt has been escalating. When he came to
:24:42. > :24:45.power it was a growing economy, we had three lost years pulling the rug
:24:46. > :24:48.out from the economy. In terms of what will happen after the next
:24:49. > :24:53.general election, right now they would deal with the deficit to the
:24:54. > :24:57.tune of ?37 billion that they would cut from tax or public benefit or
:24:58. > :25:00.raising tax. You are looking at only the equivalent of ?9 billion. There
:25:01. > :25:04.is a clear difference with the pace you will deal with the deficit.
:25:05. > :25:10.There is a clear difference, what we learned last time is when you have
:25:11. > :25:14.an insipient growth you don't want to pull the rug from under it. We
:25:15. > :25:18.need fairer system to deal with it, which is why we are committed to go
:25:19. > :25:24.back to the 50p tax band for the top earner. This is priorities and
:25:25. > :25:31.values. In education absolute priority, on apprenticeships, on
:25:32. > :25:34.technical and education. Will your brief, the education budget be
:25:35. > :25:38.ring-fenced? These are the discussions I have to have with Ed
:25:39. > :25:41.Balls. We will present a manifesto to the British public, but I think
:25:42. > :25:44.when you look back through the history Labour Governments, we have
:25:45. > :25:48.always looked after education budgets and health budgets. Those
:25:49. > :25:52.are absolute priorities. We sit here in Manchester where the first
:25:53. > :25:56.charter schools were founded in 1819, education has been central to
:25:57. > :26:01.Labour's message about social justice. We will certainly be
:26:02. > :26:07.prioritising it. You are hopeful of a ring-fence but don't have one yet?
:26:08. > :26:10.Ed Balls was Education Secretary and knows about that department.
:26:11. > :26:15.Finally, isn't part of this problem, and when you speak to the people in
:26:16. > :26:18.this hall, they know when they go on the doorsteps people don't trust
:26:19. > :26:22.Labour on the economy. They know that had. Isn't part of the problem
:26:23. > :26:27.there has never been a real moment when, since the last election, when
:26:28. > :26:33.the party looked the electorate in the eye and said we were part of the
:26:34. > :26:36.problem. We spent too much. David Miliband who wanted to be leader
:26:37. > :26:40.planned on saying that when he had won. Wouldn't it be better to have
:26:41. > :26:45.said it? When we go to the polls having the debates about the
:26:46. > :26:48.expenditure in laid 08 will not be what people are concerned about.
:26:49. > :26:50.They will be concerned about whether or not we have plan to deliver an
:26:51. > :26:54.economy that works for working people. At the moment we have a
:26:55. > :26:58.model of economic growth only benefitting a privileged few. The
:26:59. > :27:02.kind of detailed, attractive policies, based upon a different
:27:03. > :27:06.vision of political economy, raising the national minimum wage, cracking
:27:07. > :27:10.down on zero hours and securing the NHS. Good Labour policies meaning Ed
:27:11. > :27:12.Miliband will get into Number Ten. We will hear from Ed Miliband
:27:13. > :27:17.tomorrow. Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
:27:18. > :27:25.We know our comprehensive coverage conference will sater, ate all of
:27:26. > :27:30.your tastes. Some Newsnight viewers may want more. You know who you are.
:27:31. > :27:33.Andrew Neil has more to come from the Labour Party Conference straight
:27:34. > :27:36.after the programme. It is a crucial party conference
:27:37. > :27:42.this year with the election only seven months away, I will bring all
:27:43. > :27:46.the most important speeches from the best interviews and analysis. That
:27:47. > :27:49.is Newsnight with Today the Conference.
:27:50. > :27:54.The cheek of him. Well let's pick up on tomorrow of those themes, not
:27:55. > :27:57.Andrew's themes, but what we have been discussing with our guests,
:27:58. > :28:03.Lionel Barber from the Financial Times and Kate Pickett the author of
:28:04. > :28:06.The Spirit Level. Rachel you have been scathing about Ed Miliband in
:28:07. > :28:10.the past and also David Cameron, but Ed Miliband in the past. What do you
:28:11. > :28:16.think he has to do this week. What can he do this week? What is
:28:17. > :28:20.interesting he needs to reach out beyond the Labour tribe, can he do
:28:21. > :28:23.that? There is lots of conversation with Tristram about the called
:28:24. > :28:27.English question. I think the real question for him this week is can he
:28:28. > :28:33.win in England. There is a shocking figure that in 2010, Labour won ten
:28:34. > :28:37.seats out of 197 in the south of England outside London. If Labour
:28:38. > :28:40.wants to form a Government, Ed Miliband has to reach out to the
:28:41. > :28:45.people not natural Labour traditional supporters. Going back
:28:46. > :28:48.to the centre ground, Lionel Barber, they have also to work on the
:28:49. > :28:53.economic credibility. You are imbued with the city and talk with people
:28:54. > :28:56.in business all the time. How far is the Labour Party on that journey
:28:57. > :29:00.back to restoring trust on the economy? I would say it has moved
:29:01. > :29:06.just beyond first base. If we're going to take the baseball metaphor.
:29:07. > :29:10.I think that there has been no prawn cocktail offensive that I have
:29:11. > :29:17.detected in the City of London. I think that that there was some
:29:18. > :29:22.effort now to tone down some of what people in the business community
:29:23. > :29:25.effort now to tone down some of what have thought wasn't aity business
:29:26. > :29:28.rhetoric. I do not expect tomorrow Ed Miliband to be talking about
:29:29. > :29:34.predator capitalism. But they are already having to unpick some of the
:29:35. > :29:38.things they have done before? Part of that and what you seen today
:29:39. > :29:43.is Ed Balls's policy on child benefit, for example. But surely
:29:44. > :29:49.that doesn't sit with people on the core vote, left of the Labour Party
:29:50. > :29:53.or traditional Labour? I don't think it does, I don't think what we heard
:29:54. > :29:56.from the he Labour Party today is speaking to core voters or anyone
:29:57. > :30:02.who wants a vision of a better society in Britain today. I'm hoping
:30:03. > :30:09.and waiting and hoping that somebody over the period of the conference,
:30:10. > :30:12.maybe Ed Miliband in the leader's speech, and will pick up the ball
:30:13. > :30:16.and show us a better vision. Right here all three of you are saying he
:30:17. > :30:21.has to do three different things, you are saying reach out to the
:30:22. > :30:24.non-traditional Labour. He can walk and chew gum at the same time. It is
:30:25. > :30:28.possible to reach out to Middle England and appeal to the business
:30:29. > :30:33.community. You can do that. Is it possible to do both of those things
:30:34. > :30:36.then, and appeal and shore up the traditional Labour vote? Possibly
:30:37. > :30:47.not, I think the Labour Party needs to think about where its values are.
:30:48. > :30:54.Should it be trying to reassure the City of London or trying row strain
:30:55. > :30:58.it. The Southern voters who I think he has to win back are more worried
:30:59. > :31:03.about economic credibility and the leadership questions. They are the
:31:04. > :31:08.out in front people. He has to win them over. That does sit with the
:31:09. > :31:13.business community very well. I do think he has to make a choice. Those
:31:14. > :31:16.are small constituencies in the grand scheme of things. 80% of the
:31:17. > :31:24.British public want a more equal society. That is a huge mandate. Who
:31:25. > :31:28.what do you mean by that? It is clear in the British Association
:31:29. > :31:32.attitude survey, 80% of British public think income differences
:31:33. > :31:37.should be smaller. The evidence suggests that would improve our
:31:38. > :31:40.society, make for a more Health and Safety Executivy, cohesive society,
:31:41. > :31:45.more economic stability and growth. A lot of people understand the world
:31:46. > :31:50.has changed after the global world financial crisis. A lot of people
:31:51. > :31:54.don't want prosperity put at risk by irresponsible fiscal policies, that
:31:55. > :32:03.was the message of Ed Balls today. Tentative, a little tentative, but
:32:04. > :32:09.still in terms of his own a bold move on child benefit, politically
:32:10. > :32:14.it is big. I think most people think the exact opposite. Ed Miliband
:32:15. > :32:18.tomorrow won't talk so much, there will be the reprise about P
:32:19. > :32:24.inequality, but I think he will make the health service front and centre.
:32:25. > :32:29.Has he had such a rap on the knuckles about the energy price
:32:30. > :32:35.freeze, the predator idea he put out, so business has been rapping
:32:36. > :32:38.him? We are not talking about big business here only. We are talking
:32:39. > :32:43.about small business, where a lot of the jobs are created. People who are
:32:44. > :32:47.accustomed to taking risks, they want to hear and that is where
:32:48. > :32:52.Rachel is right. Has to appeal to that community too. Does that
:32:53. > :32:59.actually look like that though Rachel Sylvester, you say he has to
:33:00. > :33:04.reach out and win in England w what? I think the NHS is a good theme. It
:33:05. > :33:07.will be clash of two terrible brands in the general election. It will be
:33:08. > :33:11.the Conservative Party seen to be the party of the rich, not trusted
:33:12. > :33:17.on the NHS. Versus a Labour Party that isn't trust today run the
:33:18. > :33:20.economy. Actually the NHS is an area where Ed Miliband has a huge
:33:21. > :33:25.advantage over David Cameron. He Labour is trusted but also David
:33:26. > :33:29.Cameron and Andrew Lansley, in particular with the health reforms
:33:30. > :33:35.seem to have abandoned their promise on the NHS before the last election.
:33:36. > :33:39.If he just talk about the NHS isn't it just returning to core vote? It
:33:40. > :33:44.has to be a reforming vote on the NHS. It can't be more money for
:33:45. > :33:48.nurses, doctors. I think Labour has a story on that about reforming the
:33:49. > :33:54.health and social care, bringing those two very difficult things
:33:55. > :33:58.together. The FT supported Labour for a long
:33:59. > :34:01.period up to the 2010 election when they then backed the Conservatives.
:34:02. > :34:09.Can you see the paper supporting a Labour Party with Ed Miliband as the
:34:10. > :34:14.leader? I honestly think I'm going on Newsnight and answer that. I
:34:15. > :34:19.think one of the most interesting things today and I have been with an
:34:20. > :34:23.ex-cabinet minister over dinner tonight, is this sense there is a
:34:24. > :34:29.big message from Scotland here about the collapse of the Labour Party
:34:30. > :34:31.support. There is a message coming out about people being
:34:32. > :34:37.discombobulated. What do you do about those people. Is it enough, if
:34:38. > :34:42.you like, just to have this mantra of inequality. There is the populist
:34:43. > :34:49.mood in this country in Scotland, in England, Ed Miliband has to take
:34:50. > :34:54.that on board as well. That mood in Scotland is not about a mantra of
:34:55. > :35:00.inequal fee, it is about real change, real equality and real
:35:01. > :35:07.social justice. Thank you very much. How to respond to the threat
:35:08. > :35:11.of Islamic State will not be the so simple question facing over 140
:35:12. > :35:19.world leaders at the UN General Assembly today. The UN-GA, or as one
:35:20. > :35:26.senior diplomat refers to in memory of Silvio Berlusconi, the Ungi
:35:27. > :35:31.Party, kicks off on with an address of the President of the United
:35:32. > :35:34.States, Barack Obama. Tony Blair has reentered the debate. Arguing that
:35:35. > :35:41.Britain should not rule out putting boots on the ground. Our diplomatic
:35:42. > :35:49.editor is there. How far does President Obama appear to be in
:35:50. > :35:55.terms of forming a strategy now? You know there is a lot of scepticism
:35:56. > :36:03.about this. Some countries, sworn enemies how are they meant to work
:36:04. > :36:06.together. The phrase are using is "work in progress". There have been
:36:07. > :36:11.some interesting developments and some people have broken cover in
:36:12. > :36:14.recent days. If you talk about the British that is interesting, because
:36:15. > :36:17.just a few weeks ago at the NATO summit in Wales I was getting a
:36:18. > :36:22.pretty clear steer that this was the week when if there was going to be
:36:23. > :36:25.an enhanced British contribution, air strikes, perhaps a military
:36:26. > :36:29.training mission to go in and improve the performance of the Iraqi
:36:30. > :36:33.army. This would be when we would hear it. I spoke to a senior British
:36:34. > :36:39.official earlier today to push him on this point. Will we get this. I
:36:40. > :36:44.got the answer, well... Soing will happen before David Cameron speaks
:36:45. > :36:46.to the people here and attends the session of the Security Council
:36:47. > :36:53.chaired by Barack Obama on Wednesday. If there is going to be
:36:54. > :37:01.movement that is the time to look at it from the UK. On the wider
:37:02. > :37:04.coalition there are vital meetings between President Erdegon and
:37:05. > :37:09.President Obama. This is all part of the mood music to ramp up the
:37:10. > :37:15.coalition and what we have seen over recent days.
:37:16. > :37:19.September brings turmoil to New York, as scores of world leaders
:37:20. > :37:23.arrive for the UN General Assembly. All sorts of diplomatic business is
:37:24. > :37:26.done on the margins and this year President Obama is mobilising
:37:27. > :37:32.support to fight the so called Islamic State.
:37:33. > :37:36.There is still doubts about what President Obama's strategy consists
:37:37. > :37:40.of, and whether it can work. You find those in Congress, the
:37:41. > :37:45.international community and even the US military. This is taking a
:37:46. > :37:48.clearer form now and we have been able to get some ideas in recent
:37:49. > :37:55.days about what the main elements are? It is meant to be a new type of
:37:56. > :38:02.coalition and a new battle plan. The administration is using big High
:38:03. > :38:24.Streets like John Kerry to persuade the doubters. They will take Sommer
:38:25. > :38:26.convincing, even within the President's own partymer convincing,
:38:27. > :38:32.even within the President's own party. I think they want them to own
:38:33. > :38:38.what is happening. And even with my experience it is very niave to think
:38:39. > :38:45.this will stop at let's get the Syrian moderates to fight the war.
:38:46. > :38:49.ISIS has to be defeated, plain and simple, end of story. We watched
:38:50. > :38:55.round one, trying to convince a Congress that knows President Obama
:38:56. > :39:02.hasn't wanted to arm the Syrian opposition or reenter Iraq, but has
:39:03. > :39:06.been forced to by circumstance. The Republican administration left this
:39:07. > :39:13.administration with big problems. I think this administration has turned
:39:14. > :39:17.a big challenge into a major crisis. But the House of Senate did vote it
:39:18. > :39:20.through, stepping up training for Syrian rebels, likely to take place
:39:21. > :39:25.in Jordan and Saudi Arabia. That is just one part of the plan. He laid
:39:26. > :39:29.out what his struggles were and inside the our comments. And
:39:30. > :39:33.listened to our comments first over two hours.
:39:34. > :39:38.The President has told trusted visitors to the White House that
:39:39. > :39:50.tackling him. Ling ISIS in Syria is said to involve states like Saudi
:39:51. > :39:56.Arabia and others. The secret sauce is in this fight a number of gulf
:39:57. > :40:05.countries, plus Saudi Arabia, plus maybe Jordan, plus maybe Egypt, plus
:40:06. > :40:08.maybe turkey will provide resources, including advisers on the ground,
:40:09. > :40:15.whether they are called combat troops or something else. Special
:40:16. > :40:20.Forces, I think there will be some friendly foreign fighters from the
:40:21. > :40:23.region. At this week's UN General Assembly,
:40:24. > :40:27.President Obama hopes to put the finishing touches to his coalition,
:40:28. > :40:32.with meeting on the sidelines and a key speech on Wednesday. But many
:40:33. > :40:37.remain to be convinced. You could say there is 40 countries
:40:38. > :40:42.but the reality is what are the countries? What are they putting
:40:43. > :40:46.into the equation. Where are the combat troops. For how long. Those
:40:47. > :40:57.very specific things that I would like to see to feel comfortable with
:40:58. > :41:01.his plan. We haven't received that. Among the leaders current and ex,
:41:02. > :41:04.gathered in New York, calls from Britain too to put the military
:41:05. > :41:09.flesh on the bones of the good intentions. You can contain,
:41:10. > :41:14.possibly, by air power, you can hem them in and Harry them, but in the
:41:15. > :41:19.end you will also have force capability on the ground. I'm not we
:41:20. > :41:24.in the west need to do this, it would be better done by those people
:41:25. > :41:26.closer to the ground who have the most immediate and direct interest
:41:27. > :41:30.in fighting them. I don't think we can in all circumstances rule it
:41:31. > :41:37.out. Afterall we do have the force capability to do this. The coalition
:41:38. > :41:41.is growing and in some meaningful ways, with the French for example
:41:42. > :41:44.starting air strikes in Iraq, Australia is set to do the same.
:41:45. > :41:49.Britain too must now show its hand on air strikes and training for the
:41:50. > :41:57.Iraqi forces. There is talk here too of a big change in position by
:41:58. > :42:01.Turkey. But the Pentagon also wants to see
:42:02. > :42:10.exactly what these commitments amount to. As the Defence Secretary
:42:11. > :42:15.hosted a meeting to honour the missing in action of previous wars,
:42:16. > :42:22.you hear Vietnam being mentioned. As an earlier example of one that
:42:23. > :42:28.started with a half-baked pledge not to get involved on the ground. This
:42:29. > :42:31.nation is immensely war weary after the experience of Iraq and
:42:32. > :42:40.Afghanistan. There is one other constituency that the President has
:42:41. > :42:45.to convince of the viability of his position. As your commander and
:42:46. > :42:50.chief I will not commit you and the rest of our Armed Forces to fighting
:42:51. > :42:55.another ground war in Iraq. The President's promise of no boots on
:42:56. > :42:59.the ground, or any second Iraq War has already rankled with military
:43:00. > :43:02.advisers, who consider it unrealistic and potentially
:43:03. > :43:05.misleading. The odds are overwhelming that they
:43:06. > :43:10.will be involved in combat operations. The question is will
:43:11. > :43:15.they be given a mission of direct combat. The answer is we don't know
:43:16. > :43:20.yet. At the moment the mission will be to advise, mentor train the Iraqi
:43:21. > :43:26.security forces, the Peshmerga in the north and the Syrian moderate
:43:27. > :43:31.opposition as they come on line. I wouldn't foreclose at all the option
:43:32. > :43:35.of ultimately needing combat operations as a mission for US
:43:36. > :43:39.troops. At the moment the mission will be train, advise and mentor, we
:43:40. > :43:47.shouldn't box ourselves in. Because we don't know what the future will
:43:48. > :43:53.hold. Elements of the President's plan are now coming together, and in
:43:54. > :44:01.ways that is surprising given about how vague it has been about its
:44:02. > :44:08.objectives. But with Congress the coalition or military, one important
:44:09. > :44:13.thing has changed. The President has given them their marching orders. We
:44:14. > :44:17.have Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary at the time of the Iraq War. We have
:44:18. > :44:21.been watching this very closely I know, the President has said they've
:44:22. > :44:36.country on earth must do something in this battle, are we doing enough?
:44:37. > :44:39.We could probably do more, there is an understandable reluctance by
:44:40. > :44:44.British Government and British parliament to do more than operate
:44:45. > :44:48.from the air, different the flat blankly the history of the Iraq War
:44:49. > :44:53.with thousands of troops on the ground. We are seeing the French
:44:54. > :44:57.already undertaking air strikes, why we the holder of the special
:44:58. > :45:02.relationship haven't acted that way. We are not looking like we are
:45:03. > :45:05.dragging their feet. I think we do as far as air strikes are concerned.
:45:06. > :45:09.Speaking for myself and nobody else I think there is a good case to be
:45:10. > :45:12.involved in air strikes. It is not so much about contributing to the
:45:13. > :45:19.capability of the Americans, they could do this all themselves. S if
:45:20. > :45:22.test about the coalition of the willing -- it is about a coalition
:45:23. > :45:27.of the willing and sending a message to those on the ground in ISIS that
:45:28. > :45:32.they are very isolated. In my judgment we have to talk to Iran. I
:45:33. > :45:39.have been calling along with some Conservatives for them to be a
:45:40. > :45:42.contract group to deal with the problem in Syria and that would
:45:43. > :45:47.involve Iran. When this was put to the Government a few months ago they
:45:48. > :45:51.came out with some ludicrous arguments that Iran had not signed
:45:52. > :45:56.up to Geneva 1. The reason they isn't was because they hadn't been
:45:57. > :46:03.in the room. Should David Cameron oughtor and talk to the Iranians on
:46:04. > :46:08.the sidelines. I have no idea if he will, I think he ought to have been
:46:09. > :46:14.talking to the Iranians last year. I know he has had one conversation,
:46:15. > :46:24.but Iran is a huge country and hugely significant. Dr Rohanny want
:46:25. > :46:32.a reprochment with the west and want to do a deal. It is not a
:46:33. > :46:36.monoculture, there is a big political space and we need to take
:46:37. > :46:40.advantage of the circumstances it operates in. How do you think the
:46:41. > :46:43.mood of the Labour Party would be if Ed Miliband were to say, yes, we
:46:44. > :46:51.have to get involved here, even perhaps as Tony Blair suggested not
:46:52. > :47:02.ruling out ground troops? I think if Ed Miliband and Douglas Alexander,
:47:03. > :47:08.and called him up. This would be great support in church. They go
:47:09. > :47:16.right across the chamber, it is very infreak there is a straight party
:47:17. > :47:23.divide. Ground troops are more problematic. In terms of ruling out
:47:24. > :47:26.the boot on the ground, our former colleague has been clear, Britain
:47:27. > :47:32.ought not to rule it out, even though it is more ideal for regional
:47:33. > :47:37.neighbours to do it. There is no point in pretending we could put
:47:38. > :47:42.infantry battalion, we lack the capacity in large numbers. You agree
:47:43. > :47:48.it would be politically impossible? Never use the word impossible,
:47:49. > :47:53.politically different, certainly Special Forces and training. The
:47:54. > :47:57.idea is our investment from the air and training in Special Forces and
:47:58. > :48:04.the major boots on the ground for the Peshmerga and other forces who
:48:05. > :48:07.want to see that. How different would Labour's foreign policy be
:48:08. > :48:12.under Ed Miliband, if in seven months time he is Prime Minister?
:48:13. > :48:16.Chaired Compared with what? Compared with you. He would not have
:48:17. > :48:22.supported, as you said, the Iraq War, but that is now history. I
:48:23. > :48:29.doubt it would have been that different. It is broadly
:48:30. > :48:34.pro-European. He, as Douglas Alexander is, stuff stand as far as
:48:35. > :48:39.the Israeli Government is and seeking a reprochment with Iran.
:48:40. > :48:43.That's all we have from here from Manchester tonight. That is it. But
:48:44. > :48:44.there will be more from us here at the Labour conference, thank you
:48:45. > :48:51.very much for watching.