:00:23. > :00:33.An all-party basis. The President who promised to end the war on
:00:34. > :00:37.terror appears to have embarked on another, President Obama says might
:00:38. > :00:43.is the only way. There will be no reasoning or negotiation with this
:00:44. > :00:47.random evil. The only language understood by killers like this is
:00:48. > :00:49.force. How far will Britain go at America's side, the former
:00:50. > :00:55.Attorney-General is here. How much money would a "Mansion Tax"
:00:56. > :00:58.make under Labour, what would it do to the housing market in Ed
:00:59. > :01:06.Miliband's borough, we have a candid assessment. It would crash, most
:01:07. > :01:11.certainly. And jailed for watching a men's volley ball watch, a
:01:12. > :01:21.British-Iranian woman is languishing in a notorious prison. We have an
:01:22. > :01:24.interview with her brother. Good evening the divisions from the
:01:25. > :01:28.last Iraq War over a decade ago have barely healed. But tonight Britain
:01:29. > :01:37.stands on the brink of involvement in another war on terror. On Friday
:01:38. > :01:41.MPs will debate in parliament air attacks on Iraq. The Prime Minister
:01:42. > :01:48.says he's responding to a request from the Iraqi Government to support
:01:49. > :01:52.the war on ISIS. I'm confident we will get it through parliament on an
:01:53. > :01:58.all-party basis, it is right for the country to be united at this time.
:01:59. > :02:03.We will be voting on taking part on national action against ISIL in
:02:04. > :02:07.Iraq. If there was a suggestion of taking action in Syria, that would
:02:08. > :02:10.be a separate parliamentary vote and debate. I want to be clear, we will
:02:11. > :02:13.take action in the way I have set out. Allegra Stratton is here. It
:02:14. > :02:21.feels from that language it is pretty much a done deal. Now about
:02:22. > :02:26.24 hours it was not a done deal. The Tories had to wait until the Labour
:02:27. > :02:31.conference was out of the way, and for Ed Miliband to assemble the
:02:32. > :02:35.Shadow Cabinet and get agreement, they agreed they would support the
:02:36. > :02:40.strikes. The reason there is such a feeling between the two parties is a
:02:41. > :02:43.year ago Ed Miliband, David Cameron felt, gave assurances he would
:02:44. > :02:46.support that action then and there was a sense that Ed Miliband did
:02:47. > :02:49.reign nations. Until the Conservatives felt they got the
:02:50. > :02:54.appearances today from Labour, they weren't going to bank on anything.
:02:55. > :02:59.So are you expecting any rebellion on this, it is limited? It would be
:03:00. > :03:02.very limited, of course there will be rebellion, there is still
:03:03. > :03:08.soul-searching, it is not easy for many people on all sides of the
:03:09. > :03:12.house. Labour MPs who have massive problems in their constituencies.
:03:13. > :03:15.The questions on Friday people will be asking about is, will it be
:03:16. > :03:19.lengthy air strikes. People this evening don't have the answer to the
:03:20. > :03:23.questions. The reason why it will probably be straight forward is it
:03:24. > :03:26.is incredibly limited. David Cameron wouldn't get action in Syria through
:03:27. > :03:30.the House, so it is just limited to Iraq. But David Cameron himself
:03:31. > :03:35.talked about Syria this evening, but also people that I have spoken to
:03:36. > :03:38.have also said Syria comes round at some point soon, it is not going
:03:39. > :03:45.away, we have to deal and think about this. Thank you very much.
:03:46. > :03:52.Meanwhile in New York a President whose foreign policy has been
:03:53. > :03:57.characterised as hesitant by critics had the UN call to war. He was unam
:03:58. > :04:01.big arcs he called for a broad coalition to fight ISIS, and to
:04:02. > :04:10.dismantle what he called the network of death. Today the leaders met with
:04:11. > :04:15.Iran since the 1979 revolution about Islamic State. This is a new but not
:04:16. > :04:19.all together convincing alliance introducing it to the world.
:04:20. > :04:32.How important is this question of legality to the British Government?
:04:33. > :04:39.Government legal advice is 100% sure that it would be legal for the UK to
:04:40. > :04:41.start strikes tonight. Without any further endorsement, but then going
:04:42. > :04:45.to parliament in what he described as a belt and braces option. In
:04:46. > :04:50.other words, they feel that the letter given by the Iraqi Prime
:04:51. > :04:55.Minister to the Security Council last night, asking for assistance,
:04:56. > :04:59.provides the necessary invitation, the authorisation and the
:05:00. > :05:03.legalisation of force. So quite interesting to see them talking in
:05:04. > :05:06.those terms. Presumably they say so because they are confident of
:05:07. > :05:14.getting through the Commons on Friday.
:05:15. > :05:18.I called Obama's speech a "call to war" earlier today, how big does he
:05:19. > :05:21.see this coalition getting? It is interesting, you know, even at the
:05:22. > :05:25.weekend quite a lot of us were a little bit cynical about the
:05:26. > :05:28.40-nation coalition. Would some of them be promising to look at
:05:29. > :05:35.passports a bit more carefully. Then of course we saw the five gulf
:05:36. > :05:39.states taking part, with combat careful over parts of Syria. Now we
:05:40. > :05:43.hear the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, and possibly the UK are
:05:44. > :05:48.going to join France among the other NATO countries who are willing to
:05:49. > :05:53.get involved and do air strikes in Iraq. It is expanding, but it is
:05:54. > :05:56.what they call a comprehensive strategy, there are other key parts
:05:57. > :06:00.to it. None more so than the part supposed to be played by Turkey, in
:06:01. > :06:06.that Security Council session tonight. The President of Turkey was
:06:07. > :06:10.sitting there and part of it, he voted for steps that would cause him
:06:11. > :06:14.to have to clampdown on militants going through his country. That is
:06:15. > :06:19.an absolutely critical aspect of the strategy, put forward by President
:06:20. > :06:32.Obama which has been the main theme today. President Obama has used this
:06:33. > :06:37.week as a matter of the moment and laying out his views to world
:06:38. > :06:40.politics. Key to that was his speech at the council, only the second time
:06:41. > :06:45.a US President has chaired this body. He wanted to drive home the
:06:46. > :06:55.seriousness of his new strategy against the so called Islamic State.
:06:56. > :06:58.Our intelligence officers estimate more than 15 thousand fighters have
:06:59. > :07:04.travelled there in the last 15 years. Many joining the Al-Qaeda
:07:05. > :07:08.affiliates and ISIL, which threatens people across Syria and Iraq.
:07:09. > :07:11.Earlier in the day he address the bigger audience, the General
:07:12. > :07:16.Assembly and world opinion. He hit back at Russia for its behaviour in
:07:17. > :07:21.Ukraine, and others for not doing enough to halt the spread of Ebola,
:07:22. > :07:26.and what he called the cancer of terrorism. I have made it clear that
:07:27. > :07:30.America will not base our entire foreign policy to reacting to
:07:31. > :07:35.terrorism. Instead we waged a focus campaign against Al-Qaeda and its
:07:36. > :07:41.associated forces, taking out their leaders, denying them the safe
:07:42. > :07:44.havens they rely on. At the same time we have reaffirmed again and
:07:45. > :07:50.again that the United States is not and will never be at war with Islam.
:07:51. > :07:53.It was a confident eO'vagus, that might have annoyed Russia
:07:54. > :07:59.It was a confident eO'vagus, that but found plenty of approval from
:08:00. > :08:03.his powerful audience. How was President Obama's speech
:08:04. > :08:06.secretary-general? Excellent. I took notes of a strong statement that the
:08:07. > :08:12.only language understood by killers is the language of force. I fully
:08:13. > :08:17.agree with the President that is why I think the international community
:08:18. > :08:26.as a whole has a responsibility to stop the advance of the terrorist
:08:27. > :08:30.organisation ISIL and eventually defeat it. Has the President
:08:31. > :08:34.answered domestic crickets who say he has failed to lead in
:08:35. > :08:37.international politics. That is unfair criticism, and whatever
:08:38. > :08:45.domestic politics go on here, I can't really comment on those
:08:46. > :08:50.efforts, but for from our point of view specifically dealing with the
:08:51. > :08:55.issues we face in NATO, we are rather pleased with him.
:08:56. > :08:58.The campaign against militants in Syria and Iraq now requires urgent
:08:59. > :09:03.action from the broader coalition that America has gathered here, 40
:09:04. > :09:20.or so nation, on the fringes of that, still tight lipped, the UK. As
:09:21. > :09:23.new the UK, Denmark and others must decide whether or not to strike
:09:24. > :09:32.immediately. How important is it for them to do so. Other countries have
:09:33. > :09:36.already done so. Is it necessary for them to do so? If you ask me in my
:09:37. > :09:42.personal capacity, the answer is yes. I appreciate the United States
:09:43. > :09:47.has taken the lead on this, I think the United States should be followed
:09:48. > :09:51.by other NATO allies. It is the urgency of the Middle East crisis
:09:52. > :09:58.that has defined the President's week here. Whatever other issues he
:09:59. > :10:02.is juggling, and however much he prejects comparisons with his
:10:03. > :10:05.predecessors. The President is receiving plain Detective Chief
:10:06. > :10:09.Inspectors today, as a confident assertion of American leadership.
:10:10. > :10:12.There is also something rather mournful about it, man who spent
:10:13. > :10:15.five years trying to redefine America's relationship with the
:10:16. > :10:20.Middle East and Islam, is now defaulting back to something very
:10:21. > :10:25.similar to what George W Bush called his war on terror.
:10:26. > :10:34.If that unending quest for security is a grim necessity, it is hardly
:10:35. > :10:37.the kind of of idealism that US Presidents seek to inspire the
:10:38. > :10:41.United Nations. With me now is Lord Malloch-Brown,
:10:42. > :10:46.who was deputy General Secretary of the United Nationses in 2006, and
:10:47. > :10:50.Conservative MP and chair of the defence elect committee Rory
:10:51. > :10:55.Stewart. Welcome to you both. Rory Stewart, I'm wondering if you heard
:10:56. > :10:58.a confident assertion of American leadership, from Obama's speech? It
:10:59. > :11:03.is clear he wants to act. But there is still a lot of questions which he
:11:04. > :11:07.himself poses again and again, which is, what next? He said two weeks ago
:11:08. > :11:12.he didn't have a strategy, he now says he does. If you look carefully
:11:13. > :11:15.at it, it doesn't yet go much beyond air strikes. The big question
:11:16. > :11:22.remains the political question, how do you get the other regional people
:11:23. > :11:26.involved, how do you deal with Islamic State and the Sunni
:11:27. > :11:30.population. He has got the UK and regional powers, you would expect
:11:31. > :11:33.the UK to follow suit presumably and agree to strikes? I think that is
:11:34. > :11:36.likely, yes. If you were hearing the statements from Ed Miliband, and the
:11:37. > :11:40.fact that what the Prime Minister is asking for is limited. He's not
:11:41. > :11:43.asking for strikes in Syria. I would have thought the likelihood is
:11:44. > :11:46.parliament will vote on Friday for strikes. The question of the
:11:47. > :11:49.regional players is more complicated. You are absolutely
:11:50. > :11:52.right, the strikes have taken place, but the funding is very important.
:11:53. > :11:57.Downs like Turkey are very important. They haven't yet
:11:58. > :12:01.participated. That is the biggest player on the Syrian Iraqi border,
:12:02. > :12:06.we have to watch that awfully. On a UN level now, what is the process,
:12:07. > :12:10.does this go round in circles looking for resolution like last
:12:11. > :12:14.time? No, because actually a request by a country for support for its own
:12:15. > :12:19.security, that's it. You actually don't need a Security Council
:12:20. > :12:25.resolution, it is nice to have, but it is not necessary. Frankly nor is
:12:26. > :12:30.it necessary for limited strikes on Syria if those strikes are aimed at
:12:31. > :12:36.those hostile elements that are trying to undo the Iraq Government.
:12:37. > :12:39.I mean that again falls under the umbrella of responding to requests
:12:40. > :12:44.from the Iraqi Government to defend its security. Are we wrong to
:12:45. > :12:47.isolate the one from the other? I think we are, the risk of striking
:12:48. > :12:55.into Syria is we again, like with Libya or like with Iraq, in 200 #,
:12:56. > :12:58.that a limited purpose gets dragged into a bigger regime change purpose,
:12:59. > :13:05.and that would be wrong. But in terms of doing the job now, the
:13:06. > :13:08.surgical strikes against ISIS in order to reduce and contain its
:13:09. > :13:14.military effectiveness, I think we're sort of tying, unnecessarily
:13:15. > :13:19.tying our hands behind our back. What about the whole question of the
:13:20. > :13:22.UN Security Council, China and Russia, traditionally opposing what
:13:23. > :13:26.the western powers do. That is not going to happen here, it is not even
:13:27. > :13:29.going to go to council? As I say, I think like what will likely happen
:13:30. > :13:35.is it will come to the council, because the Iraqis you know in part
:13:36. > :13:41.address their plea to the council. My suspicion is it won't come to a
:13:42. > :13:44.vote, because it will be talked out and extensively talked out, which
:13:45. > :13:47.will allow the Russians and Chinese say it has been to the council, and
:13:48. > :13:52.they have not been bypassed where it will avoid a situation where the
:13:53. > :13:59.Russians feel obliged to veto. As I say, it is completely different to
:14:00. > :14:02.Syria last year. That was attacks on a Government, which was still,
:14:03. > :14:05.however ouch you dislike it the recognised Government of the
:14:06. > :14:09.country. This is a response to a request by a Government to help
:14:10. > :14:13.defend its territory. Do you think the defeat of ISIS is possible? It
:14:14. > :14:16.is going to be very, very difficult. If everybody says the two things you
:14:17. > :14:20.need are the regional players on side and the local population
:14:21. > :14:23.against them, there is not much sign of that yet moving. And remember
:14:24. > :14:32.there are going to be players who will disrupt this. It is not clear
:14:33. > :14:40.really where in the end Iran, Russia, Syrian leadership will come
:14:41. > :14:43.down. They will be worried, they can see Saudi, and others striking, you
:14:44. > :14:46.will wonder where they will turn next. I don't think anybody who
:14:47. > :14:54.pretends they can get rid of the Islamic State, as opposed to contain
:14:55. > :15:00.them. We can get rid of their equipment, but get them out of
:15:01. > :15:05.places like Raqqa, and Mosul, very difficult. It is easy to look back
:15:06. > :15:08.at the places it could be involved, when you look at the political
:15:09. > :15:12.problems President Obama face, was he wrong to pull out of the surge
:15:13. > :15:17.when he came to power, does that seem fundamental to the issues now?
:15:18. > :15:19.He made the right decision, it was difficult but the right decision. In
:15:20. > :15:23.the end what we learned about the surge is it was not sustainable. It
:15:24. > :15:27.was military move, how much they talked about politics, it was
:15:28. > :15:31.military. And yet it is a mess now? It was inevitably going to be a
:15:32. > :15:34.mess, unless you could sort out the politics in Baghdad, it didn't
:15:35. > :15:39.matter you had #130E,000 troops on the ground and spending $100 million
:15:40. > :15:43.a year, it was only going to last two or three years. The diplomacy
:15:44. > :15:47.element between the US and the UK, clearly America will be happy to
:15:48. > :15:52.have us on board as far as that goes tonight. But we are a minor player
:15:53. > :15:56.aren't we? We have already put caveats on, how useful are we? There
:15:57. > :16:01.may be some intelligence assets, Cyprus bases, other things which are
:16:02. > :16:06.of a little bit more use than is immediately visible. But really the
:16:07. > :16:12.utility of this is solidarity with the United States. Solidarity with
:16:13. > :16:16.the international community and in response to Iraq's requests. The
:16:17. > :16:22.marginal military value is limited. I think the risk is, even when the
:16:23. > :16:27.UK went in as an alleged equal partner in 2003 in Iraq, we actually
:16:28. > :16:30.quickly found that we were a junior partner, and the strategy was
:16:31. > :16:35.determined in Washington. More so this time. And the real core risk
:16:36. > :16:40.here is that we get dragged into a long conflict. The surge didn't end
:16:41. > :16:44.too soon to pick up on what Rory was saying, you know, what it
:16:45. > :16:48.demonstrated instead was that there aren't military solutions in this
:16:49. > :16:50.region, and we shouldn't fall back into the trap of believing there
:16:51. > :16:57.are. We have learned tonight that amongst
:16:58. > :17:00.those killed in the strikes, last night were British-born Jihadis,
:17:01. > :17:05.Secunder Kermani has more. Tell us what you know? We heard about a
:17:06. > :17:09.19-year-old from Brighton who travelled to Syria in February. We
:17:10. > :17:12.believe he was killed in a US air strike outside the city of Aleppo on
:17:13. > :17:19.Monday evening. We also believe that he was part of the Al-Qaeda
:17:20. > :17:24.affiliated group. His mother spoke to the BBC earlier tonight and she
:17:25. > :17:29.said she had no idea how he became radicalised. I'm just saying whoever
:17:30. > :17:35.was responsible brain-washing my son, to take this kind of measure,
:17:36. > :17:42.to go there, hall will judge between me and then on the day of judgment.
:17:43. > :17:47.I have a source and he told me that was not the only British citizen to
:17:48. > :17:54.die in the air strikes. He told me three other men, all of Bengali
:17:55. > :17:57.heritage, all from London were also killed alongside Syrian and Dutch
:17:58. > :18:01.fighters. America says it was targeting in the air strikes a group
:18:02. > :18:06.plotting attacks on western interests. My source told me these
:18:07. > :18:10.men had travelled to fight against the regime of Assad, which is
:18:11. > :18:14.accused of widespread atrocities of the Syrian population. The group
:18:15. > :18:22.they were part of, it is part of Al-Qaeda, it is a Jihadist
:18:23. > :18:27.organisation, but it is also a lot less extreme than Islamic State,
:18:28. > :18:33.ISIS, in some places in Syria it has been fighting against ISIS. I spoke
:18:34. > :18:38.to a member of the moderate Syrian opposition outside Aleppo, a group
:18:39. > :18:44.pro-democracy, anti-Assad and anti-ISIS. He fears that the US
:18:45. > :18:47.strikes against this Al-Qaeda group will push them into a Jihadist
:18:48. > :18:50.alliance with ISIS, that would make the lives of him and others in the
:18:51. > :18:56.democratic opposition more difficult.
:18:57. > :19:04.A few months ago there was let's say troubles or problems between these
:19:05. > :19:11.two sections of Al-Qaeda. They will join each other to fight against
:19:12. > :19:17.let's say the people supporting the Allies. A French hostage was killed
:19:18. > :19:23.by a group also linked to ISIL what do we know about that today? A 55
:19:24. > :19:26.-year-old French man hiking in Algeria, kidnapped over the weekend
:19:27. > :19:32.by a Jihadist group that declared its support for ISIS. They
:19:33. > :19:36.threatened to kill this man, Herve Gourdel, if France continued its
:19:37. > :19:42.support for America and other western air strikes against ISIS in
:19:43. > :19:45.Syria. But today they released a video of his beheading, the French
:19:46. > :19:50.President, Francois Hollande, said it was a cruel and cowardly act but
:19:51. > :19:53.felt that France would not give into blackmail like this. Thank you very
:19:54. > :19:57.much indeed. Let's take all the threads that we have heard this
:19:58. > :20:02.evening so far and cross to York once more, we can speak to Marie
:20:03. > :20:06.Harf of the US State Department, who speaks from there. Thank you very
:20:07. > :20:09.much for joining us, we appreciate your time. Your response to
:20:10. > :20:20.Britain's position tonight, can you fight ISIS in Iraq and not in Syria?
:20:21. > :20:23.A few points we know ISIL has grown strong in Iraq, that is why the
:20:24. > :20:25.United States has taken direct military action against them there.
:20:26. > :20:29.A key part of the strategy is pushing them back from the territory
:20:30. > :20:34.they have already taken in Iraq. We obviously know there is a key point
:20:35. > :20:38.of the tragedy that involves Syria, that is why we have taken action in
:20:39. > :20:41.Syria. Each country will make their own decisions on being part of the
:20:42. > :20:43.coalition, not all of that is military, a lot of it will be
:20:44. > :20:52.nonmilitary. Things we need other people to do. It seems extraordinary
:20:53. > :20:54.that in 2009 Obama came with the new chapter in US international
:20:55. > :20:59.relations and the language tonight is pretty much a call of war. Is
:21:00. > :21:06.there acceptance now that the only way to fight terror is militarily. ?
:21:07. > :21:11.I think you have seen the President, this President, President Obama,
:21:12. > :21:13.throughout his whole entire administration take the threat to
:21:14. > :21:20.terrorists when they threaten the United States. If you look at
:21:21. > :21:24.Al-Qaeda in packs stand and Afghans -- Pakistan, and Afghanistan. He has
:21:25. > :21:28.never hesitate today take action. This is the next phase in the war
:21:29. > :21:31.against the Jihadists who are trying to kill Americans and other people
:21:32. > :21:36.in the region. This was the man who defied the words of John McCain,
:21:37. > :21:40.when he was running for President, stopped the surge, pulled the
:21:41. > :21:45.soldiers out, at a time when they could have stopped the mess that we
:21:46. > :21:49.are in now, isn't that the legacy? Not at all. The war we are going to
:21:50. > :21:52.be undertaking against ISIL looks nothing like the war that the
:21:53. > :21:57.previous administration went to in Iraq. These are wholly different
:21:58. > :21:59.military operations. What we are undertaking is targeted counter
:22:00. > :22:02.terrorism operations against a group. I would agree with your
:22:03. > :22:07.previous guest that nothing militarily we could have done would
:22:08. > :22:10.have prevented this rise of ISIL, there was a political vacuum in Iraq
:22:11. > :22:14.that led to sectarianism and the breakdown we saw in the Iraqi
:22:15. > :22:18.security forces. That is what we are trying to come back from right now
:22:19. > :22:20.and helping the Iraqis. It is interesting when you talk about
:22:21. > :22:24.targeted military operations. I don't know if you heard our
:22:25. > :22:29.correspondent just then, who said, look, the US has targetedies
:22:30. > :22:38.circumstance but it issing will -- targeted ISIS, but also groups like
:22:39. > :22:43.other groups fighting ISIS. You have to be watchful if you are pushing
:22:44. > :22:48.two groups closer together to create a greater ISIS force? That is a
:22:49. > :22:52.simplistic reading of the situation. When we decide who to go for in
:22:53. > :22:56.Iraq, whatever group, they have to present a threat to the United
:22:57. > :22:59.States or our partners. It has to meet that criteria. So we believe
:23:00. > :23:02.these all presented threats to us or Iraq, that is why we took the
:23:03. > :23:06.action, that is the standard we use going forward. Realistically, and we
:23:07. > :23:10.know that President Obama has said this is just the beginning, this
:23:11. > :23:17.will amount to boots on the ground in some form, won't it? Not American
:23:18. > :23:21.boots on the ground in combat roles, we have been very clear about that.
:23:22. > :23:24.The boots on the ground we need are the Iraqi security force, the
:23:25. > :23:27.Kurdish forces, to get back on their feet, that is what we are helping
:23:28. > :23:31.them do, and also the Syrian opposition, that we are supporting,
:23:32. > :23:36.through a train and equip programme to help a moderate opposition force
:23:37. > :23:40.grow there. To be clear there will be no American boots in a role in
:23:41. > :23:49.combat, the President has been very clear about that.
:23:50. > :23:53.The inquiry e into the last Iraq War wasn't been finished, Lord Goldsmith
:23:54. > :23:57.was accused of changing his advice on the legality of military action
:23:58. > :24:01.days before the invasion. What would Dominic Grieve make of the same
:24:02. > :24:05.question this time round, the Attorney General. It is more
:24:06. > :24:11.straight forward this time round? Very much so in so far as the
:24:12. > :24:15.request of the Iraqi Government for azest tense. They are en--
:24:16. > :24:20.assistance. They are entitled to ask for assistance. There is internal
:24:21. > :24:23.armed conflict in parts of northern Iraq. In addition there seems to be
:24:24. > :24:27.some evidence that some of the attacks are spilling over the border
:24:28. > :24:31.to Syria, they are entitled to invoke the right to self-defence. As
:24:32. > :24:41.long as the Prime Minister considers that the United Kingdom can help in
:24:42. > :24:44.that, and that we can use reasonable, necessary and
:24:45. > :24:48.proportionate means to stop unlawful activity taking place. So long as he
:24:49. > :24:53.also pays close attention to ensuring that the law of war is
:24:54. > :24:57.observed. International humanitarian law which is a challenge when you
:24:58. > :25:00.deal with partners who don't always accept proper human rights
:25:01. > :25:03.standards. Then the intervention by ourselves or anybody else in support
:25:04. > :25:07.of the Iraqi Government will undoubtedly be lawful. Why then
:25:08. > :25:12.would he rule out Syria from what you have just said? I think Syria is
:25:13. > :25:15.more complicated. There are grounds on which we could OK properly
:25:16. > :25:18.intervene in Syria to begin with, there is no doubt that the Iraqi
:25:19. > :25:22.Government, if they are being attacked from across the Syrian
:25:23. > :25:28.border by IS are entitled to go across into Syria in order to stop
:25:29. > :25:33.those attacks. Just to make that clear, if we don't follow up action
:25:34. > :25:37.in Syria, what we're essentially doing is an operation to get ISIS
:25:38. > :25:48.out of Iraq and nothing more? There is no doubt that getting ISIS out of
:25:49. > :25:52.Iraq is one legal framework. But militarily very ineffective? Quite
:25:53. > :25:55.possibly. We know from what the United States is doing they are
:25:56. > :25:59.taking military action in Syria as well. I think it is right that
:26:00. > :26:03.military action in Syria comes under a rather different legal framework.
:26:04. > :26:08.But that is not to say it would be improper, but the Prime Minister
:26:09. > :26:11.would need to be satisfied that different criteria were met before
:26:12. > :26:15.doing it. And there is the problem about the Syrian Government itself.
:26:16. > :26:18.The Prime Minister has made it clear, for very good reasons that he
:26:19. > :26:23.doesn't wish to engage with the Syrian Government, because its own
:26:24. > :26:29.reputation in terms of human rights violations is so appalling. But they
:26:30. > :26:33.are de facto the Government of Syria, although they the writ
:26:34. > :26:40.doesn't run in the areas where the military operation also likely to
:26:41. > :26:43.take place. It is about the intervening and the consequences in
:26:44. > :26:45.creating a vacuum, and whether at that stage it wouldn't be better to
:26:46. > :26:50.involve the United Nations and act on a UN resolution. When you talk
:26:51. > :26:55.about criteria you are saying you wouldn't do Syria without through
:26:56. > :26:59.the whole chapter and verse on the UN resolution? I'm not saying you
:27:00. > :27:03.have to have one to go in. If you didn't consider you could get a
:27:04. > :27:11.suitable UN resolution in Syria, you could take action under the doctrine
:27:12. > :27:15.of humanitarian necessity, if it was preventing Kurdish villages being
:27:16. > :27:18.wiped out or other minorities, genocide being committed against
:27:19. > :27:22.them. As I say the Iraqi Government is entitled to take military action
:27:23. > :27:27.across the border if the attacks are coming KR from across the border.
:27:28. > :27:31.There is no doubt that the Iraqis' allies can act in concert with them
:27:32. > :27:35.for that purpose. If America is already in Syria what does that say
:27:36. > :27:39.about the legality, are they doing something illegal that we are not
:27:40. > :27:42.following, or is it OK for them but not for us? The United States, I
:27:43. > :27:47.think, has always approached these matters in a slightly different way
:27:48. > :27:50.from the way we do ourselves. Just listening to the lady from the state
:27:51. > :27:55.department a moment ago. She made quite clear that under the doctrine
:27:56. > :28:00.that the United States has had, ever since the 9/11, it will pursue
:28:01. > :28:05.Al-Qaeda and its affiliates anywhere in the world. Including against the,
:28:06. > :28:08.if a Government won't co-operate with them, it will do it whether or
:28:09. > :28:12.not that Government wants it. Some of the interventions in Syria are
:28:13. > :28:16.almost certainly taking place under that heading. Others may be taking
:28:17. > :28:22.place under a different heading, but the United States has never
:28:23. > :28:25.clarified its view as to whether the doctrine of humanitarian necessity
:28:26. > :28:29.is one it embraces. It undoubtedly does it in reality, but it has never
:28:30. > :28:34.actually explained it in legal terms. Is your gut feeling from a
:28:35. > :28:38.moral interventionist perspective that David Cameron would want to go
:28:39. > :28:44.into Syria and we probably will? I don't think I can answer it. The
:28:45. > :28:48.Prime Minister has a two-fold issue tomorrow, firstly he has to persuade
:28:49. > :28:50.parliament, not so much about the morality, I think most
:28:51. > :28:53.parliamentarians looking at what is going on must conclude it is
:28:54. > :28:57.difficult to think of anything much worse than IS. That's the
:28:58. > :29:05.difference, isn't it, between this and last year where there w anxiety
:29:06. > :29:08.that destroying President Assad would bring something worse. Do you
:29:09. > :29:13.think we could go into Syria? There is a proper basis for the United
:29:14. > :29:17.Kingdom to go into Syria, but I want to emphasise that base has to be
:29:18. > :29:21.established. I don't have the intelligence. Quite apart from
:29:22. > :29:25.anything else, it would be the law officers who would have to consider
:29:26. > :29:28.that, and I wouldn't in any way prejudge that issue. There are
:29:29. > :29:33.circumstances which in my view it would be proper to intervene in
:29:34. > :29:39.Syria. Thank you very much indeed. Now, much has been made of the stuff
:29:40. > :29:41.that Ed Miliband left out of yesterday's speech. Perhaps
:29:42. > :29:54.obscuring the stuff that he put in. One of the bolder or riskier ones
:29:55. > :30:04.were the "Mansion Tax". What would the cash raised buy for the NHS. We
:30:05. > :30:09.have been crunching the numbers. This is probably what you think of
:30:10. > :30:15.when you hear the word "mansion", but in London property have risen so
:30:16. > :30:20.much in the past years, that homes like this will be caught in the ?2
:30:21. > :30:29.million limit. This is how it rolled in Camden, near Ed Miliband's old
:30:30. > :30:33.home. And the former Prime Minister. But he couldn't afford to live here
:30:34. > :30:40.now. The basement and this bit is going for ?1. 5 million. The levy
:30:41. > :30:44.would raise ?1. 2 billion, that is ?11,000 for each home worth more
:30:45. > :30:47.than ?2 million. The proposed tax would be progressive, four bands
:30:48. > :31:03.being charged in increasing amounts. Around 80% of the homes affected
:31:04. > :31:05.would be in London. In fact, just three borough, Kensington and
:31:06. > :31:10.Chelsea, Westminster and Camden would pay around two thirds of the
:31:11. > :31:16.total bill. Although even in London, ?2 million properties are hardly the
:31:17. > :31:20.norm. The same architect that designed these did several around
:31:21. > :31:30.North London only worth up to ?500,000. It is just by Vertonghen
:31:31. > :31:39.it -- virtue of the area. 30% of the properties affected by the "Mansion
:31:40. > :31:40.Tax" are detatched houses, the rest are semi-detatched, terraces and
:31:41. > :31:42.flats. The tricky part of the tax is valuing homes. Newsnight understands
:31:43. > :31:46.that Labour are considering using the method applied to the called
:31:47. > :31:51.annual tax on enveloped properties, introduced by the Chancellor. Since
:31:52. > :31:55.2013, if you have owned a property worth more than ?2 million through a
:31:56. > :31:59.company, then every year you had to get that property valued and submit
:32:00. > :32:04.that valuation to the Government. They then present you with a tax
:32:05. > :32:08.bill. If you submit a number that turns out to be wrong and the
:32:09. > :32:12.Government challenge you. You don't just have to pay the tax bill but a
:32:13. > :32:17.substantial penalty. It is this system that Labour are looking to
:32:18. > :32:21.roll out to all properties worth more than ?2 million. At the moment
:32:22. > :32:26.only 1,000 properties a year are subject to this valuation procedure,
:32:27. > :32:31.expanding that to over 100,000 might be tricky. Aside from surveyor, the
:32:32. > :32:38.big beneficiary of the policy is supposed to be the NHS. Labour have
:32:39. > :32:45.pledged to set aside ?2. 5 billion for an NHS Time to Care fund, this
:32:46. > :32:52.is compared to an NHS budget of ?100 billion. They say it would pay for
:32:53. > :32:56.3,000 midwives, 5,000 care workers, 8,000 GPs and 20,000 nurses. In our
:32:57. > :33:01.view you need more than ?2. 5 billion. We think something between
:33:02. > :33:06.?4-?5 billion extra a year over the next ten years would be sufficient
:33:07. > :33:11.to sustain the NHS in good standards of patient care and to support the
:33:12. > :33:15.investment we desperately need in transforming how care is delivered.
:33:16. > :33:18.More care closer to home. More emphasis on prevention, less
:33:19. > :33:23.reliance on hospitals, that's what we all want to see.
:33:24. > :33:26.Even if Labour have found way to make the "Mansion Tax" work. Health
:33:27. > :33:35.economists doubt that it alone would be enough to cover the NHS needs.
:33:36. > :33:40.The Sturgeon is a different creature to the salmon, lower profile, not
:33:41. > :33:45.known for its leaping displace, but the SNP's deputy leader suggested if
:33:46. > :33:50.she was successfully elected for the party's new leader, the struggle for
:33:51. > :33:53.independence would condition. Nicola Sturgeon declared her candidacy for
:33:54. > :33:57.the post, and said the independence question could be re-opened in as
:33:58. > :34:02.little as five years, if London failed to deliver on promises to
:34:03. > :34:05.Scotland. She gave this interview. If Alex Salmond symbolised the
:34:06. > :34:10.nationalists before September 18th, then Nicola Sturgeon is the face of
:34:11. > :34:14.the future. Barring an unforeseen challenge, she will certainly be the
:34:15. > :34:19.first female First Minister of Scotland, and today although she
:34:20. > :34:24.praised her predecessor, she made it clear she is her own woman. We would
:34:25. > :34:27.not have come so far as a nation without Alex's vision, tenacity and
:34:28. > :34:31.statesmanship, but the challenges and opportunities of tomorrow
:34:32. > :34:34.require a different approach. They will demand the ability not just to
:34:35. > :34:39.argue case with determination and conviction, but also to reach out,
:34:40. > :34:44.to work with others and seek common cause on the issues that unite us.
:34:45. > :34:48.Everything has changed so quickly in a country which has deliberated and
:34:49. > :34:54.debated the referendum for nigh on two years. It was just six days ago
:34:55. > :34:58.that Scotland was in a frenzy of excitement on referendum day. It was
:34:59. > :35:01.the broadest and deepest political engagment I have ever known in
:35:02. > :35:07.Scotland, and the discourse was passionate and in the main
:35:08. > :35:13.harmonious, even though families and friends were often split between yes
:35:14. > :35:21.and no. The turnout, 84. 5% was a testament to people's involvement in
:35:22. > :35:25.democracy. The world was watching. There is a sense that since the vote
:35:26. > :35:28.Scotland has changed, for some teenagers who voted for
:35:29. > :35:31.independence, there is a new campaign, the generation yes
:35:32. > :35:35.movement. The ranks of the SNP have swelled to make the third largest
:35:36. > :35:39.party in the UK. And for the unionist, devolution is on the move.
:35:40. > :35:43.And as Alex Salmond said, the coalition's feet will be held to the
:35:44. > :35:48.fire to cement new powers for Scotland.
:35:49. > :35:52.Nicola Sturgeon, a former lawyer and formidable brain has said she will
:35:53. > :35:57.co-operate with the Swift Commission on devolution. You think you might
:35:58. > :36:02.be keen to vote? Her belief in independence is unshakeable and goes
:36:03. > :36:06.back to her membership of the party at the age of 16, when I was
:36:07. > :36:10.politicised by the unemployment and industrial decline in her native
:36:11. > :36:15.Ayrshire in the Thatcher years. It is not just in the Scottish
:36:16. > :36:18.Parliament Nicola Sturgeon wants to pursue greater Home Rule, she wants
:36:19. > :36:25.to up the engagment with parliament. At the moment there are six SNP, MPs
:36:26. > :36:28.they don't vote on legislation, she's determined to build on the
:36:29. > :36:31.Scottish vote and increase the number of MPs. Nicola Sturgeon says
:36:32. > :36:35.Gordon Brown, speaking with the authority of the Conservatives, the
:36:36. > :36:39.Liberal Democrats and Labour, made a clear and unmistakable promise. The
:36:40. > :36:43.package to be delivered by January next year is to be Home Rule and
:36:44. > :36:47.something near to federalism. The question is, what will the new First
:36:48. > :36:55.Minister of Scotland do if they fail to deliver on that promise. Nicola
:36:56. > :36:59.Sturgeon spoke to Kirsty in the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh.
:37:00. > :37:05.Barring a thunder bolt, you will be First Minister of Scotlands? Never
:37:06. > :37:08.discount the possibility of a thunder bolt! It is fair to say on
:37:09. > :37:12.the night you thought you won the vote? I campaigned all day in
:37:13. > :37:15.Glasgow and we did in Glasgow, I believed we were going to win. I
:37:16. > :37:18.think it is fair to say those of us involved in the yes campaign thought
:37:19. > :37:22.for the last few days of the campaign we were on course to win.
:37:23. > :37:25.We did very well. Were you preparing for negotiations? We had been
:37:26. > :37:28.preparing in the Scottish Government for some time to make sure that we
:37:29. > :37:33.were as prepared as possible if there was a yes vote. I felt huge
:37:34. > :37:37.disappointment on the night. Not disappointment just for myself, but
:37:38. > :37:42.disappointment for the 1. 6 million people across Scotland who voted
:37:43. > :37:45.yes. It is interesting, right up to the first poll that came out after
:37:46. > :37:48.the vote close you thought you had won? I thought we had won,
:37:49. > :37:52.absolutely. You said this morning you would take a different approach
:37:53. > :37:56.to Alex Salmond, what does that actually mean? What that means is
:37:57. > :38:00.recognising that the different time we have moved into now in Scotland
:38:01. > :38:06.demands a different approach. So, yes, I will argue my corner, I will
:38:07. > :38:10.argue it passionately, I will argue it with determination like Alex
:38:11. > :38:15.would have done, but I will try to try to reach out across the party
:38:16. > :38:18.divide and those who are now politically engaged and not in
:38:19. > :38:23.political parties and try to focus on not just what divides us, there
:38:24. > :38:27.is a real focus in Scotland on the yes and no and what we disagree,
:38:28. > :38:32.that is understandable. Is that embargo Alex Salmond was quite
:38:33. > :38:36.pugnacious? He was a great man and great friend, I won't sit here and
:38:37. > :38:41.pick holes in his character. Different times demand different
:38:42. > :38:44.skills. I want to try to have an inclusive style of leadership. Do
:38:45. > :38:49.you accept that the majority of people in Scotland, as of now don't
:38:50. > :38:52.want independence? We didn't win the referendum. Do you think as Alex
:38:53. > :38:56.Salmond seems to think, that this issue is over for a generation?
:38:57. > :39:00.Circumstances and the mood of the people of Scotland will term if and
:39:01. > :39:04.when there is another referendum. I don't think any politician, even if
:39:05. > :39:07.they wanted to, can set a limit on the ambition of the Scottish people.
:39:08. > :39:10.I'm not planning another referendum right now. We have just had one. But
:39:11. > :39:14.circumstances will dictate what happens in the future. So you are
:39:15. > :39:18.not planning a referendum soon, but do you rule it out for example in
:39:19. > :39:23.the next five years? I won't rule it out or in. The fundamental point I'm
:39:24. > :39:26.making here is that it is not in the gift of politicians to say to the
:39:27. > :39:30.Scottish people you will not for five or ten years, no matter the
:39:31. > :39:35.circumstances, get the chance to say that you want to make a different
:39:36. > :39:39.decision. You have said that what Gordon Brown promised on behalf of
:39:40. > :39:43.Labour, Liberal Democrats and Conservatives was Home Rule towards
:39:44. > :39:47.federalism. What do you actually mean by that? It is now for us all
:39:48. > :39:51.to define what that means, I'm very clear what I mean. I think we need
:39:52. > :39:56.powers in Scotland that allow us, as a parliament, to create jobs to grow
:39:57. > :40:01.our economy, to make sure that we can tackle better the inequality
:40:02. > :40:04.that scars our nation. I met with Lord Smith yesterday who will lead
:40:05. > :40:07.this process, I have indicate today him that we will be active
:40:08. > :40:11.participants in this process for change. What are you actually going
:40:12. > :40:14.to ask for? We will be looking for the maximum powers over tax, we will
:40:15. > :40:20.be looking for substantial powers over welfare. We will be look for
:40:21. > :40:23.powers that give the parliament greater fiscal responsibility and
:40:24. > :40:25.accountability. We will look for powers that enable the Scottish
:40:26. > :40:31.Parliament on issues that are devolved to us to speak up in Europe
:40:32. > :40:36.on these issues. Do you think, as one of your MSPs has been blogging
:40:37. > :40:43.that you should go into the general election on a devo max ticket. By
:40:44. > :40:46.that I mean everything devolved bar foreign affairs, defence and
:40:47. > :40:50.macro-economics? We will be campaigning from now until the
:40:51. > :40:54.general election to make sure that the substance and the rhetoric of
:40:55. > :40:59.what is delivered matches what was promised. We did have language used
:41:00. > :41:03.during the final stages of the referendum campaign, of devo max, of
:41:04. > :41:08.near federalism, Home Rule. That has to be delivered. This scenario was
:41:09. > :41:12.talked about a lot during the referendum campaign, that there is
:41:13. > :41:16.an in coming Conservative Government committed to a referendum on Europe.
:41:17. > :41:20.In the course of that referendum, England votes to leave and Scotland
:41:21. > :41:25.votes to stay. Do you think that would be seen as a UK-wide single
:41:26. > :41:29.return, it is a were, or do you think that there would be grounds
:41:30. > :41:33.then for going after a referendum for independence? That is one of the
:41:34. > :41:37.circumstances that would make many people in Scotland think it was time
:41:38. > :41:40.to think again. In your opinion do you think people in Scotland would
:41:41. > :41:48.want to leave Europe? No. I don't think people in Scotland would want
:41:49. > :41:52.to leave Europe. SNP MPs don't vote on English legislation should Labour
:41:53. > :41:55.MPs be doing the same? If I was English I would see the great
:41:56. > :42:01.argument for the fact that on English issues Scottish MPs don't
:42:02. > :42:05.vote. What I don't think think is acceptable, given the promises made
:42:06. > :42:11.is what David Cameron suggested in the early hours of Friday morning is
:42:12. > :42:16.that issue should run in tandem to deliver the promise made to
:42:17. > :42:19.Scotland. The promise made was made unconditionally. Do you believe you
:42:20. > :42:22.will be the First Minister of an independent Scotland one day? I
:42:23. > :42:25.would love to think so, but that is in the hand of the Scottish people.
:42:26. > :42:29.I will focus for the meantime on my campaign to be the First Minister of
:42:30. > :42:32.the devolved Government, I think that is probably what I should focus
:42:33. > :42:37.on at the moment. Thank you very much much. Where It is nearly three
:42:38. > :42:42.months since a British Iranian woman was thrown into jail in Tehran. Her
:42:43. > :42:49.crime, watching a men's volley ball match. Ghoncheh Ghavami is in a
:42:50. > :42:53.notorious prison. She believed the rule over women spectators had been
:42:54. > :42:58.overturned. Her plea fell on deaf ears. We caught up with her brother
:42:59. > :43:02.Iman. Three months ago this London law
:43:03. > :43:08.graduate had a great deal to look forward to. But for the last 87 days
:43:09. > :43:15.she has been held in Tehran's notorious prison. Nearly half of
:43:16. > :43:17.that in solitary confinement. Dwarf Ghoncheh Ghavami was apparently
:43:18. > :43:23.taunted by prison officers who said she wouldn't get out alive. Her
:43:24. > :43:29.crime, watching volley ball. Her family are desperate. She's a very
:43:30. > :43:38.energetic, passionate 25-year-old woman. Her plan was to visit family
:43:39. > :43:41.and do some volunteering with street kids. She was actually working
:43:42. > :43:46.volunteering with street kids and teaching them how to read and write,
:43:47. > :43:52.I think that was the highlight of her stay at that point in Tehran.
:43:53. > :43:56.That was the joy of being half British, half Iranian. She flitted
:43:57. > :44:01.between her home in west London and her parents' place in Iran. All that
:44:02. > :44:06.changed on June 20th. With thousands of others, she went to watch the
:44:07. > :44:13.national theme play at the stadium. -- national team play at the
:44:14. > :44:17.stadium. Iman says his sister thought a ban on women watching
:44:18. > :44:20.men's volley ball was lifted, she was wrong. She was arrested and
:44:21. > :44:24.questioned for four hours. Days later when she returned to a police
:44:25. > :44:28.station to collect her things, she was arrested again and thrown in
:44:29. > :44:36.jail. The authorities took my dad and her home and they confiscated
:44:37. > :44:42.her books, her phone, iPad, two or three laptops and they took and we
:44:43. > :44:48.didn't hear from her for the next 11 days. After 11 days she made a phone
:44:49. > :44:53.call and we found out that she was being kept at the prison. My parents
:44:54. > :44:57.were devastated. My mum she is restless all the time, my dad, I
:44:58. > :45:02.mean, he has aged like ten years in the past three months. This is
:45:03. > :45:06.Ghoncheh Ghavami in June last year on an Iranian election day, her
:45:07. > :45:15.finger inked like that of the man she wanted to become President,
:45:16. > :45:21.Hasan Rouhani. Now her family hope they can end her nightmare. Do you
:45:22. > :45:26.think the British diplomats might hesitate because of the country's
:45:27. > :45:30.role in the region? My his Sister's case has nothing to do with
:45:31. > :45:36.politics, it is more of a human story, all we want is to bring her
:45:37. > :45:39.back home. So you might think it ideal that Rouhani and David Cameron
:45:40. > :45:42.should meet today. Although the Prime Minister expressed concern
:45:43. > :45:48.about the case, her family fear the British won't want to be too
:45:49. > :45:55.critical. The west is wooing Iran right now, they have a common enemy,
:45:56. > :46:03.so called Islamic State. I think they want to arrest and keep her in
:46:04. > :46:07.prison for 85 days. And 41 days in solitary confinement, purely for
:46:08. > :46:12.attending a match. This week, finally, she was charged with
:46:13. > :46:16.propaganda against the state. Her brother travelled to New York in the
:46:17. > :46:23.hope of meeting President Rouhani, thus far he has been illusive. Let
:46:24. > :46:30.me just take you through the papers before we go. The Times has
:46:31. > :47:14.Cameron's call to arms for bar on barbarians.
:47:15. > :47:21.That's it, as you saw the news today, the Dowager Duchess of
:47:22. > :47:25.Devonshire, the last surviving Mitford sister has died. She gave
:47:26. > :47:37.one of her last interviews to Newsnight four years ago. We leave
:47:38. > :47:41.you with a brief exchange. You must have been the only woman in
:47:42. > :47:46.the world who danced with JFK as a young man, and within months took
:47:47. > :47:49.tea with Hitler? Isn't it extraordinary for that to have
:47:50. > :47:56.happened to you? Isn't it strange, but that is the sort of thing that
:47:57. > :48:04.did happen.