:00:12. > :00:16.Britain is now committed to the military battle against so called IS
:00:17. > :00:21.and will be for a very long time. Left unchecked we will face a
:00:22. > :00:25.terrorist caliphate on the shores of the Mediterranean, and bordering a
:00:26. > :00:35.NATO member, with a declared and proven determination to attack our
:00:36. > :00:38.country, and our people. But there is a consensus here that there will
:00:39. > :00:42.be boots on the ground. The only question is whose boots are they?
:00:43. > :00:47.There is already evidence of the conflict spreading as we have
:00:48. > :00:51.witnessed. Turkey's border with Syria is NATO's
:00:52. > :00:56.frontier with Islamic State. We have been talking to people that told us
:00:57. > :01:03.that IS operatives can move through this border pretty much at will.
:01:04. > :01:07.Will we escalate the war with IS beyond Iraq. I asked the Defence
:01:08. > :01:14.Secretary. If it is right to help the Government of Iraq to repel
:01:15. > :01:22.ISIL, it is also right to help them repel ISIL from its safe havens in
:01:23. > :01:28.Syria. Also tonight. Say hello to my little friend Would you want to
:01:29. > :01:39.watch classic movie on an iPhone, Al Pacino says definitely not, I don't
:01:40. > :01:42.want to mess with him but is he out-of-touch.
:01:43. > :01:48.Good evening, parliament has delivered a mandate for the military
:01:49. > :01:52.to become immeshed in Iraq again. For the first time since air strikes
:01:53. > :01:56.were there three-and-a-half years ago, RAF fighters will be dropping
:01:57. > :02:02.bombs on IS in Iraq. The Prime Minister says there was a strong
:02:03. > :02:05.case for doing more in Syria but it was clear from the debate, in
:02:06. > :02:09.particular Labour's position, that had the motion included air strikes
:02:10. > :02:13.on Syria, success for David Cameron wasn't guaranteed. The single vote
:02:14. > :02:24.doesn't amount to a comprehensive strategy, a constant theme in the
:02:25. > :02:29.seven-hour debate. The most awful horrors have been committed by ISIL.
:02:30. > :02:40.Today they voted to send jets back to Iraq, something many thought they
:02:41. > :02:43.would never do that. Sill a terrorist organisation unlike those
:02:44. > :02:47.we have dealt with before. The brutality is staggering. Beheadings,
:02:48. > :02:51.crucifixions, the gouging out of eyes, the use of rape as a weapon,
:02:52. > :02:56.the slaughter of children. All these things belong to the dark ages. The
:02:57. > :03:01.Prime Minister set six tests for action in Iraq, which he told the
:03:02. > :03:05.House he thought had been met, but the dissent came quickly. How long
:03:06. > :03:09.will this war last, and when will Mission Creep start. ISIS indeed are
:03:10. > :03:14.made up of murderous psychopaths, that is not the issue, look at what
:03:15. > :03:18.the House of Commons agreed to. Iraq, Afghanistan, in this
:03:19. > :03:21.Government, Libya, none of them success stories. This is about
:03:22. > :03:25.psychopathic terrorists that are trying to kill us and we do have to
:03:26. > :03:30.realise that whether we like it or not they have already declared war
:03:31. > :03:39.on us. There isn't a walk-on-by option. Even Labour MPs reported
:03:40. > :03:44.feeling a jolt in the Commons chamber when the Prime Minister said
:03:45. > :03:49.this. War is a necessary evil on occasion, no matter how necessary it
:03:50. > :03:52.is always ghastly and horrendous. It is with a feeling of depression and
:03:53. > :03:56.trepidation that I will be supporting the Government tonight.
:03:57. > :04:00.Critically for the vote to pass the Labour leader supported the action.
:04:01. > :04:05.The late Robin Cook said on his resignation speech on the eve of the
:04:06. > :04:08.Iraq War this, "our interests are best protected, not by unilateral
:04:09. > :04:14.action but multilateral agreement and a world order governed by
:04:15. > :04:20.rules". Mr Speaker, this is multilateral action, prompted by a
:04:21. > :04:25.legitimate, democratic state. As always the MP George Galloway was
:04:26. > :04:30.blunt. This will not be solved by bombing, Mr Speaker we have been
:04:31. > :04:36.bombing Iraqis for 100 years. 100 years. They are seeking to incite us
:04:37. > :04:42.to bomb, and why doesn't that give people pause that this is something
:04:43. > :04:46.they want? Because it will make them the heroic Muslim defenders against
:04:47. > :04:51.the crusaders. The country named in this vote is Iraq, but the country
:04:52. > :04:55.on everybody's minds is Syria. The debate has been going on inside
:04:56. > :04:59.parliament for six hours now, many MPs have made this point, you can't
:05:00. > :05:03.intervene in Iraq if you don't also try to do something about Syria. The
:05:04. > :05:06.Prime Minister told the House today he would like to do something about
:05:07. > :05:18.Syria, but it is the Labour Party, he said, that is stopping him. I'm
:05:19. > :05:22.very clear, ISIL needs to be destroyed in Syria as well as in
:05:23. > :05:25.Iraq. We support the action that the United States and five Arab states
:05:26. > :05:29.have taken in Syria and I do believe there is a strong case for us to do
:05:30. > :05:35.more in Syria, but I did not want to bring a motion to the House today,
:05:36. > :05:38.which there wasn't consensus for. Ed Miliband only supports action in
:05:39. > :05:42.Iraq, but some Lib Dem and his own side think he's wrong. There is a
:05:43. > :05:46.strong argument about the legal base for action in Syria under Article
:05:47. > :05:53.51. Point I have been making the last few days is in my view, when
:05:54. > :05:56.we're not talking about being invited in by a democratic state. It
:05:57. > :05:59.would be better, I put it no higher than that, it would be better to
:06:00. > :06:03.seek a UN Security Council resolution. I'm content that were
:06:04. > :06:08.there to be a motion to the effect that we should take similar action
:06:09. > :06:13.in Syria, there exists a proper and sound legal basis for that action. I
:06:14. > :06:19.believe it is a mistake today not to include Syria in the motion. Why is
:06:20. > :06:25.it right to carry out such actions against ISIS in Iraq, but not in
:06:26. > :06:29.Syria. I like to ask why we welcomed and supported the American
:06:30. > :06:33.bombardment of ISIL targets in Syria this week, but said that British
:06:34. > :06:37.action should be limited to Iraq? Ed Miliband there coming under pressure
:06:38. > :06:40.from his own side, and later Labour would clarify. The Labour leader
:06:41. > :06:44.does believe that any action in Syria has to be tested, their word,
:06:45. > :06:48.at the UN. It doesn't necessarily have to be emphatically voted
:06:49. > :06:52.through, it is just it is better, they say, to be seen to try. It is
:06:53. > :06:57.not impossible in the weeks and months ahead that we might see
:06:58. > :07:02.Labour support action in the UN as a whole even if it cannot. The
:07:03. > :07:09.tornadoes got the go ahead today, but only after a Commons haunted
:07:10. > :07:13.debate. T ghosts of when we did go in and when we didn't. Today Ed
:07:14. > :07:17.Miliband was able to carry his party to support action in Iraq. If
:07:18. > :07:20.eventually he sees the case for action in Syria himself, it is not
:07:21. > :07:25.obvious MPs would be so understanding. A vote on Syria would
:07:26. > :07:30.be very hard to call. Well, the case for intervention
:07:31. > :07:35.against IS has grown in recent weeks as a result of gruesome beheadings,
:07:36. > :07:39.parentally carried out by the Britishman the papers have dubbed
:07:40. > :07:44.Jihadi John. Earlier we spoke to the defence second. I asked him how soon
:07:45. > :07:48.British bombs would be falling in Iraq. I'm not going to give
:07:49. > :07:51.Newsnight, even Newsnight, operational details of exactly what
:07:52. > :07:59.is going to happen when. But the point is this is going to be a long
:08:00. > :08:02.drawn-out campaign. You shouldn't expect to see immediate results on
:08:03. > :08:07.Saturday morning, this is going to take some time. Syrian air strikes
:08:08. > :08:12.were expressly ruled out, would you rather that you were able to have
:08:13. > :08:16.the ability to drop British bombs on Syria? The Prime Minister made clear
:08:17. > :08:21.in his own speech today that ISIL can only be defeated in both Iraq
:08:22. > :08:24.and Syria. ISIL is head quartered in Syria, that is where its command and
:08:25. > :08:29.control is, that is where its resources are, and a lot of its
:08:30. > :08:34.people are. So this is a battle against ISIL that can only be won in
:08:35. > :08:38.both countries. I was quite heartened today by a surprising
:08:39. > :08:41.amount of support, people saying well if this is true for Iraq why
:08:42. > :08:45.aren't you operating in Syria. But we have to take this one step at a
:08:46. > :08:49.time. We have been invited now by the Iraqi Government in their appeal
:08:50. > :08:54.at the United Nations to come to much more direct help than we have
:08:55. > :08:58.already been given. We have been given humanitarian help and
:08:59. > :09:01.supplying arms, we have been invited to help them militarily, that is
:09:02. > :09:06.what we sought the authority of parliament today. Do you help what
:09:07. > :09:09.Menzies Campbell says, that actually there is no legal bar to dropping
:09:10. > :09:15.bombs in Syria, there is no legal bar for you doing it just now? We do
:09:16. > :09:21.think there is a strong legal case for selective self-defence, if it is
:09:22. > :09:28.right to help the Government of Iraq repel ISIL, it is also right to help
:09:29. > :09:32.in northern Syria. There is a strong legal case for action in Syria, but
:09:33. > :09:36.a much more complicated picture. Of course we don't have the support of
:09:37. > :09:38.the Government in Syria as we do have the support of the Government
:09:39. > :09:42.in Iraq. It is a different situation. But you are not in a
:09:43. > :09:46.sense going into Syria to do anything about overturning the
:09:47. > :09:49.state. You are going in, in you were going in, to help the Iraqi
:09:50. > :09:53.Government deal with ISIL? We would if we got to the point of
:09:54. > :09:56.intervening in Syria, we haven't taken that decision yet, and we
:09:57. > :10:03.would have to go back to parliament for further authority to do so. If
:10:04. > :10:06.we were to get to that point and there are other things to talk about
:10:07. > :10:10.there. Syria is a different proposition. The vote today was
:10:11. > :10:13.about Iraq. Could you imagine a situation where something really
:10:14. > :10:18.terrible was happening and you had to send British warplanes from Iraq
:10:19. > :10:21.into Syria? Yes I could, the Prime Minister made it clear, there are
:10:22. > :10:24.two exceptions to consulting parliament, one is if there is an
:10:25. > :10:28.immediate humanitarian need, for example if we knew that a slaughter
:10:29. > :10:31.was about to occur. The other is about where there is a very direct
:10:32. > :10:35.British interest, for example in a hostage situation, we have to retain
:10:36. > :10:38.the ability, the Prime Minister and myself as Defence Secretary to send
:10:39. > :10:41.forces in immediately when parliament, for example, isn't
:10:42. > :10:44.sitting or over a weekend, we have to retain that ability. But
:10:45. > :10:50.generally it is a good thing, I think, to have the authority of
:10:51. > :10:55.parliament. The FBI said yesterday that they know who Jihadi John is,
:10:56. > :10:59.do you now know who he is? I would rather not comment on that. At what
:11:00. > :11:04.point might the British Government release his name though? We have to
:11:05. > :11:09.do everything possible to, as far as we can, to help protect the lives of
:11:10. > :11:14.any British hostage. And I'm afraid to say, it is not helpful for us to
:11:15. > :11:19.speculate in public about where they might be held or who exactly might
:11:20. > :11:25.be holding them. What I can assure you is we're making every effort,
:11:26. > :11:29.24/7, day by day, to try to find the location of the two remaining
:11:30. > :11:32.hostages, and of course if there is any possibility of saving their
:11:33. > :11:44.lives we would try to do that. Do you accept that the passing of this
:11:45. > :11:49.motion today puts both Alan Henning and others in possibly more danger?
:11:50. > :11:53.We know they are in terrible danger, they have shown they can and have
:11:54. > :11:59.beheaded British hostages. Both those lives, very sadly, are in
:12:00. > :12:04.danger any way. We can't equally sadly, we can't allow the overall
:12:05. > :12:08.strategic decision as to whether to help the Government of Iraq be
:12:09. > :12:13.conditioned sadly by the fate of the earlier hostages or the possible
:12:14. > :12:17.fate of these too later hostages. Finally, at the moment, IS controls
:12:18. > :12:22.a quarter of Iraq. What does success look like. What is, as it were, the
:12:23. > :12:26.end game in all this? The immediate end game in Iraq is to help the
:12:27. > :12:32.Government of Iraq recover the ground that has been lost to ISIL,
:12:33. > :12:37.to push them back out of its borders, to regain its territory and
:12:38. > :12:42.as an all-inclusive Government, that has Sunni, Kurdish and Shia
:12:43. > :12:47.representation to build political support and to improve the security
:12:48. > :12:50.situation. On existing borders? On existing borders, for everybody in
:12:51. > :12:53.Iraq. It is possible for the Iraqi army and the Kurdish forces to do
:12:54. > :12:56.that, but they are going to need a lot of help. That is what they have
:12:57. > :13:00.asked the international community for, and that is what I'm very
:13:01. > :13:03.pleased now we will be part of. Thank you very much Michael Fallon,
:13:04. > :13:07.thank you very much. As the Westminster debate was taking place
:13:08. > :13:10.the reality on the ground was a stark reminder of the ferocity of
:13:11. > :13:16.the take by the group calling itself IS. They are trying to bear down on
:13:17. > :13:21.the Kurdish city of Kobane on the Syrian-Turkey border, home to at
:13:22. > :13:27.least 200,000 people. Fighting was visible from Turkey, as Turkish and
:13:28. > :13:31.Syrian Kurdish fighters have been trying to hold them back. We're
:13:32. > :13:35.joined from Gazantiep near Kobane. You have been to the border, what
:13:36. > :13:44.have you been able to see? We were there right on the border of this
:13:45. > :13:47.Kurdish enclave earlier today. IS has been bearing down on this
:13:48. > :13:51.enclave, getting closer and closer all the time. We have seen the tense
:13:52. > :13:56.of thousands of refugees getting across. There was also scuffles at
:13:57. > :14:01.Turkish Kurds tried to breakthrough the other way from Turkey into
:14:02. > :14:04.Syria, to join their brethren in the fight against Islamic State. The
:14:05. > :14:08.Kurds have criticised the Americans saying they are bombing IS
:14:09. > :14:12.everywhere except on the frontline. They are practically begging the
:14:13. > :14:16.Americans to come to their aid. The Americans are in a difficult
:14:17. > :14:21.position, unlike the Iraqi Kurds, the Syrian Kurds are allied with the
:14:22. > :14:24.Turkish Kurds, and regarded by Turkey and the EU as a terrorist
:14:25. > :14:27.organisation, putting them in a very difficult position. What have been
:14:28. > :14:32.the impact on the air strikes that have been undertaken, what has been
:14:33. > :14:37.the impact on the ground? Well, the air strikes have hit IS, we
:14:38. > :14:42.understand, at command and control posts, at oil installations, and
:14:43. > :14:45.some military hardware. Now we know anecdotally from reports that some
:14:46. > :14:48.IS commanders have been moving out of their more obvious location,
:14:49. > :14:52.vacating some buildings, we certainly know that quite a few
:14:53. > :14:58.civilians have left IS-controlled areas. It is interesting to look at
:14:59. > :15:02.the role of Turkey here. Turkey has so far taken a very back seat role,
:15:03. > :15:07.it has refused to sign up to any of the US-led coalitions here. But the
:15:08. > :15:12.President said today that parliament would be recalled and would meet on
:15:13. > :15:16.the 2nd of October to consider extending the mandate to possibly
:15:17. > :15:20.include the Turkish military. We don't know what that means, but
:15:21. > :15:24.Turkey has a huge border with both Iraq and Syria, and while it has
:15:25. > :15:29.been praised on the humanitarian side, it has taken in possibly more
:15:30. > :15:32.than any other, over a million-and-a-half refugees, it is
:15:33. > :15:38.very much taken a back seat role on the security side and it has been
:15:39. > :15:43.criticised for essentially sitting back and allowing IS to take root.
:15:44. > :15:54.To those fleeing the conflict in Syria, Turkey has mostly been a
:15:55. > :15:59.generous host. This is the small town of Surouch, American air
:16:00. > :16:03.strikes have done little to stop a sustained attacks by Islamic State
:16:04. > :16:11.on a Kurd enclave. Around 150,000 people have flooded into this area
:16:12. > :16:16.in recent days. They are all lying on blankets on the gardens and it is
:16:17. > :16:24.full of people. We are thankful for this town, they are very hoes
:16:25. > :16:28.pitable, we thank them. But the open border has benefitted others too,
:16:29. > :16:32.notably Islamic State, they have been able to use this frontier to
:16:33. > :16:37.move fighters and weapons into Syria. Now has more countries join
:16:38. > :16:41.the US-led coalition against IS, Turkey, NATO ally, is coming under
:16:42. > :16:47.increasing pressure to clamp down. This level of security is relatively
:16:48. > :16:50.new. We have been talking to people who cross the Turkish-Syrian border
:16:51. > :16:54.illegally for a living. Interestingly they have been telling
:16:55. > :16:59.us that in the areas where Islamic State controls the Syrian side, the
:17:00. > :17:04.Turk irk security presence is almost non-existent. And that IS operatives
:17:05. > :17:12.can cross in and out of Turkey almost at will. Until the nearby
:17:13. > :17:16.City of Gazantiep, many Syrian refugees scrape a living, relying on
:17:17. > :17:22.charity. Goods and people cross the border with the help of smugglers.
:17:23. > :17:28.One told us IS is actively recruiting here. He asked us to
:17:29. > :17:31.conceal his identity. TRANSLATION: You can see members of IS sitting
:17:32. > :17:35.around in the luxury hotels here, you can recognise them immediately.
:17:36. > :17:39.Some of them go around handing out supplies to the refugees. They tell
:17:40. > :17:43.the women, they will give them whatever they need, just tell their
:17:44. > :17:50.husbands to go and fight in Syria. They are very dangerous. Recent
:17:51. > :17:53.pictures sent to us by activists inside Raqqa, suggest that IS have
:17:54. > :17:58.been keeping a low profile since the start of the US-led campaign. The
:17:59. > :18:01.smuggler has controlled in and out of IS-controlled territory several
:18:02. > :18:05.times since the start of the bombing. TRANSLATION: In our village
:18:06. > :18:10.the foreign fighters have moved out, especially the ones with families.
:18:11. > :18:13.Normally we would see them on the streets during the day. Now we
:18:14. > :18:20.don't. They make their movements at night. The US strikes in Syria
:18:21. > :18:24.focussed, initially, on Raqqa, the self-styled capital of Islamic
:18:25. > :18:28.State. A mother of two witnessed the first explosions and decided that
:18:29. > :18:38.the time had come to leave the city. She too asked us to conceal her
:18:39. > :18:41.identity. TRANSLATION: It was a terrible sound, we are used to
:18:42. > :18:46.Syrian planes and their sound, this was different. Everyone started
:18:47. > :18:52.running away. IS fighters and ordinary people, everyone ran. Among
:18:53. > :18:57.those who fled Raqqa, there are few supporters of IS, most agree things
:18:58. > :19:03.were far worse under President Assad. She fears that by driving out
:19:04. > :19:08.the Jihadists, American air strikes could open the door for the regime
:19:09. > :19:13.to return. TRANSLATION: That would be a disaster, the regime is bad.
:19:14. > :19:19.I'm not on any side but I'm against the American strikes, this is not
:19:20. > :19:22.the way to get rid of Islamic State. The air strikes will drive more
:19:23. > :19:29.refugees across the border, and in among them more IS operatives. It is
:19:30. > :19:33.no accident that almost everyone we interviewed for this report agreed
:19:34. > :19:38.to speak only on condition of anonymity. Even as American allies
:19:39. > :19:44.tried to bomb the Jihadists out of Syria and Iraq, Islamic State is
:19:45. > :19:50.extending its reach deep into Turkish territory. Here now to
:19:51. > :19:55.discuss all this is the Labour MP John Woodcock who voted in favour of
:19:56. > :20:00.air strike, Clare Short who resigned from the Labour Government two
:20:01. > :20:03.months after the Iraq War in 2003, and Patrick Cockburn the Middle East
:20:04. > :20:11.correspondent for the Independent and writer of a new book about IS.
:20:12. > :20:17.First of all John Woodcock, you voted for the motion today, evidence
:20:18. > :20:23.there that IS is pushing on with the bombing. We have two tornadoes
:20:24. > :20:26.operating in -- we have six Tornados operating in Iraq, it is not much?
:20:27. > :20:30.It is part of a force. We have to be up front it will be difficult and
:20:31. > :20:33.long. It is going to be messy. People are going, innocent people
:20:34. > :20:37.are going to die through this. But the choice that I face and everyone
:20:38. > :20:42.in parliament faced is what is the alternative. And for me the
:20:43. > :20:48.alternative was to do effectively nothing against a group for which
:20:49. > :20:53.there can be no accommodation. You called the threat as dists an
:20:54. > :21:01.ideology as the Nazis? If left to grow. At the moment you have group
:21:02. > :21:04.has grown in a short space of time and taken a lot of territory in a
:21:05. > :21:08.short space of time. They have not taken a foothold in the region. They
:21:09. > :21:12.will do everything to destroy our way of life, that is why we have
:21:13. > :21:16.strike. We are striking with one hand tied behind our backs if we
:21:17. > :21:20.don't strike in Syria? There is a clear case to go into Syria. You
:21:21. > :21:27.heard we accept the legal case. A lot of people have said passionately
:21:28. > :21:31.that we shunned stand by and allow others to take this. There is no
:21:32. > :21:35.military sense in campaign that stops at an imaginary border as far
:21:36. > :21:40.as the IS is concerned, and it allows them to go a few money yards
:21:41. > :21:45.and then be safe. Clare Short how would you have voted today? I would
:21:46. > :21:52.have abstained. I'm not against taking some action to constrain the
:21:53. > :21:56.territory taken by IS, but first of all Britain is only six aeroplane,
:21:57. > :21:59.we are just joining up with America as usual, we not making the
:22:00. > :22:02.strategy, we are not in charge of it, let's be clear about that.
:22:03. > :22:05.Britain could have a more useful role in looking at the wider
:22:06. > :22:11.problems in the Middle East, and looking for big e longer term
:22:12. > :22:14.solutions. One of the recruiting Sergeants to organisations like IS
:22:15. > :22:20.is the terrible suffering of the Palestinian people, we do nothing
:22:21. > :22:25.about that. The evil version of Islam that propagages hatred of
:22:26. > :22:28.Christians and Jews and Shia, comes out of Saudi Arabia, who has been
:22:29. > :22:33.spreading those views across the world. So you can't solve this by a
:22:34. > :22:37.bit of bombing, and a bit of bombing might be part of a strategy to
:22:38. > :22:40.constrain it, but there is nothing broader and Britain is joining in
:22:41. > :22:48.the bombing, America is in charge of the strategy. Let's not pretend we
:22:49. > :22:54.are a significant player in this. Patrick Cockburn I assume you would
:22:55. > :22:57.acknowledge we can't just solve this by bombing, where does President
:22:58. > :23:00.Assad play a part in this? It is strange situation, we are not
:23:01. > :23:06.actually allied to the people who on the ground are fighting ISIS. We
:23:07. > :23:12.have just seen that in Kobane, that the Syrian Kurds, we regard them as
:23:13. > :23:17.terrorists. Assad, the people who are fighting ISIS in Syria, the
:23:18. > :23:21.Syrian army under Assad, Hezbollah, we also regard them as terrorists.
:23:22. > :23:24.They are all fighting them separately isn't it that is the
:23:25. > :23:28.problem. What is the main fighting force of the Iraqi Government is in
:23:29. > :23:35.fact the Shia militias, not the Iraqi army, of which the Sunni are
:23:36. > :23:38.terrified. That is why Mr Fallon's point that we are supporting an
:23:39. > :23:49.Iraqi Government that is inclusive and accepted by everyone is not
:23:50. > :23:54.true. The whole thing is a cimera. Originally President Assad was
:23:55. > :23:58.encouraging IS to make the case against the FSA. Are you saying we
:23:59. > :24:01.have to set aside our differences in Britain with President Assad and get
:24:02. > :24:05.him recognising there has to be a joining up to fight IS in Syria, and
:24:06. > :24:13.that is the best way of dealing with this? That is already happening. I
:24:14. > :24:19.mean we are bombing IS which is fighting the Syrian army, this
:24:20. > :24:23.benefits the Syrian army. If IS attack Aleppo, the biggest city in
:24:24. > :24:29.Syria, are we going to stand back, that benefits us at. There should be
:24:30. > :24:34.no alliance with this murderous dictator. It is a gross
:24:35. > :24:38.simplification of a very complex picture to say on the one side there
:24:39. > :24:43.is Assad and the other side there is ISIL. There remains beaten back but
:24:44. > :24:48.not yet cowed, moderate opposition forces who under the cover of air
:24:49. > :24:54.strikes can actually regain ground. That is what we have to got to be
:24:55. > :25:02.able to pour resources in to. Isn't this third force really doesn't
:25:03. > :25:06.exist, the ideas that 5,000 will be trained by the Saudis, they are a
:25:07. > :25:13.very minor force in Syria. There is a positive thing we could do which
:25:14. > :25:16.is to get the anti-ISIS force, which would include such moderates that do
:25:17. > :25:19.exist and Assad not to have a political solution, which isn't
:25:20. > :25:24.going to happen, but have a ceasefire, then they could direct
:25:25. > :25:29.their energise against ISIS. Let me bring in Clare Short. I mean the
:25:30. > :25:33.problems of 2003 were such that you felt you had to resign, because
:25:34. > :25:37.actually you didn't believe, everything was being, it moved along
:25:38. > :25:40.so fast. Do you now accept, at least even in the conversations you have
:25:41. > :25:44.been having here, is that we are being led through this piece by
:25:45. > :25:49.piece, and actually parliament isn't being bounced into doing things they
:25:50. > :25:53.don't want to do? Parliament voted today for limited bombing by six
:25:54. > :25:59.aeroplanes, joining in with an American strategy. It is not an
:26:00. > :26:03.all-out war and we are not going on the ground. But I don't believe
:26:04. > :26:11.there is any strategy that will attain the growth of extremists
:26:12. > :26:14.groups that are spreading now in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya,
:26:15. > :26:19.Somalia, and northern Nigeria, we have a thatsive problem. If we carry
:26:20. > :26:24.on with -- we have massive problem. If we carry on in an alliance with
:26:25. > :26:27.the gulf state it will carry on. We won't solve it this way. If there
:26:28. > :26:31.was a question of stake taking a vote on air strikes in Syria, what
:26:32. > :26:35.is Ed Miliband's position going to be if he doesn't get comfort from
:26:36. > :26:40.the UN. Would you see a situation where you would actually have to
:26:41. > :26:45.vote against your leader? He's clear today that he remains open of going
:26:46. > :26:51.in Syria. And understanding that you can't chase this group to the border
:26:52. > :26:55.and stop. Him and Douglas Alexander have raised the idea of a UN
:26:56. > :27:01.Security Council resolution. Come on it will never get past? I think that
:27:02. > :27:06.may well be right, so it is really important that he has said that this
:27:07. > :27:09.is not a condition of support, I think it is not unreasonable that he
:27:10. > :27:13.has asked for a greater sense of what would be the strategy in Syria.
:27:14. > :27:17.I'm clear that we need to be actively saying that it should be
:27:18. > :27:20.our ambition to go into Syria, let's see the strategy and try to vote on
:27:21. > :27:24.it as quickly as we can. Thank you very much indeed.
:27:25. > :27:29.Far from the debate at Westminster, the UKIP leader Nigel Farage told
:27:30. > :27:33.delegates at his party's conference in Doncaster he that he would not
:27:34. > :27:42.back air strikes in Iraq. The racecourse seemed a fitting setting
:27:43. > :27:50.for a man who apowered in Paddy Power's ad for the Ryder Cup.
:27:51. > :27:55.The first parliamentary election in Clacton, brought on by the defection
:27:56. > :28:02.of a Tory MP to UKIP. We have been watching Nigel Farage up close.
:28:03. > :28:07.This isn't perhaps the most obvious place to look for high politics.
:28:08. > :28:12.Here, underneath the grandstand at Doncaster racecourse is where UKIP
:28:13. > :28:15.is holding its annual conference. One of the things very striking
:28:16. > :28:20.about the UKIP conference is it is quite small. It is also quite
:28:21. > :28:23.elderly as a population. But that is because they don't have any
:28:24. > :28:27.lobbyists, and what that also means is that everyone here is an
:28:28. > :28:30.activist, and enthusiast, you can really see the reception they get
:28:31. > :28:36.from all their speeches. But there is one man they love above
:28:37. > :28:42.all, Nigel Farage. Especially when he's taking the fight to the Labour
:28:43. > :28:47.Party. Why are we in concaster, it is quite simple, because Ed Miliband
:28:48. > :28:53.is one of the town's MPs and we want to signal to the world that we are
:28:54. > :29:01.now parking our tanks on the Labour Party's lawn. So, UKIP is talking a
:29:02. > :29:05.big game on supporting the NHS. And proposing new turnover taxes that
:29:06. > :29:10.will clobber corporate tax avoiders. We're going to pose a much bigger
:29:11. > :29:13.threat to Labour than they ever dreamt, seats like Doncaster,
:29:14. > :29:19.Rotherham, Yorkshire, seats in the north-east where I spent a lot of
:29:20. > :29:22.time in the European elections. Hartlepool we were scoring 40% of
:29:23. > :29:25.the votes in the European election, we can reach areas the Tories can't
:29:26. > :29:31.in the north and areas Labour can't reach in the south. Where are things
:29:32. > :29:34.with UKIP in Scotland? Very well, the tectonic plates are shifting,
:29:35. > :29:39.the Labour Party is in dire straights, nobody is interested.
:29:40. > :29:43.Labour treat us like sheep on the housing estates people are saying,
:29:44. > :29:46.they don't do anything for them, the Conservative Party are non-existent.
:29:47. > :29:51.The Scottish nationalists most people on the housing estates think
:29:52. > :29:55.they are a bunch of Edinburgh solicitors doing Scottish dancing.
:29:56. > :29:58.Many think UKIP could do some serious damage to Labour. The
:29:59. > :30:02.problem for Labour is they are only thinking about UKIP in terms of what
:30:03. > :30:07.it means in 2015. Take a step back, look at the long-term picture here,
:30:08. > :30:12.you have got a radical right party setting up shop in seats that are
:30:13. > :30:18.hardcore Labour heartland territory and they are winning over 20 pest
:30:19. > :30:24.plus in some of these seats, without having a local branch. Have they
:30:25. > :30:33.shored up the left-wing enough, UKIP can be hit from that side, and.
:30:34. > :30:38.Members and donors have their own ideas. What is the absolute
:30:39. > :30:43.irreducible core, the red line for a UKIP negotiating position with North
:30:44. > :30:47.party would be? To get out of the European Union. We would probably, I
:30:48. > :30:52.mean I'm just giving my own opinion, but we would probably accept a
:30:53. > :31:03.referendum, number two, immigration. Then we get to all manner of things,
:31:04. > :31:08.lower taxes, far less regulation:. We would cut foreign aid in order to
:31:09. > :31:11.do things like giving soldiers' widows more money, we think the
:31:12. > :31:15.priorities are wrong at the moment. That will make it hard to go into a
:31:16. > :31:18.coalition with anybody but the Conservatives wouldn't it? It would
:31:19. > :31:22.be difficult to go into coalition with anyone in way. But I think you
:31:23. > :31:26.are right. Our policies, except for a few, are very, very similar to the
:31:27. > :31:31.Conservatives. I mean I supported the Conservatives once and I only
:31:32. > :31:36.left them, well they expelled me, but the problem was their attitude
:31:37. > :31:40.to the EU. In our target seats next year, in the by-election, and in the
:31:41. > :31:51.general election, if you vote UKIP you will get UKIP.
:31:52. > :32:00.So what does getting UKIP mean? Well outside the core issues of Europe
:32:01. > :32:04.and immigration, it remains unclear. But members told us they expected
:32:05. > :32:08.their anti-establishment message would have won them at least five
:32:09. > :32:14.MPs, or maybe dozens by this time next year.
:32:15. > :32:19.What's your favourite way to watch a movie, in a big cinema or the
:32:20. > :32:28.privacy of your iPhone? Al Pacino, who is famous for films, including
:32:29. > :32:31.the 1983 Scarface, received the BFI fellowship last night, and chose the
:32:32. > :32:36.moment to ament the idea that watching a movie on an iPhone was an
:32:37. > :32:42.experience anyone would want. And for a start they can miss the
:32:43. > :32:47.nuances of an actor's expression, and Pacino is someone always worth
:32:48. > :32:52.watching closely. Is he old school and needs to catch up or is he a
:32:53. > :32:58.powerful voice of cinematic experience. I'm joined by one of the
:32:59. > :33:05.founders of the iPhone Film Festival. I will throw you some
:33:06. > :33:10.names, Dr Zhivago, Dances with Wolves, would you be happy watching
:33:11. > :33:13.these films on an iPhone? Yes and I can explain as to why. But
:33:14. > :33:17.generally, yes. Because we are moving in a new day and age as far
:33:18. > :33:25.as technology is concerned. But you don't get the panoramic view, that
:33:26. > :33:29.idea of being in widescreen in the cinema, the space in front of you.
:33:30. > :33:36.You are looking down at a very reduced screen? Yes, but so the
:33:37. > :33:43.advantages of viewing something or a film or great film in that matter on
:33:44. > :33:46.an iPhone, compared to a cinemas you don't have the distractions of
:33:47. > :33:50.someone sitting next to you eating popcorn, you have the iPhone, it is
:33:51. > :33:53.just you and the iPhone, you can hold that screen and believe it or
:33:54. > :33:57.not when I view a movie on an iPhone, I become one into the movie.
:33:58. > :34:05.I have no distractions whatsoever it is just me and the iPhone viewing
:34:06. > :34:10.it. That's the gen. Generation of today that choose to view it on a
:34:11. > :34:13.mobile device or iPhone compared to a movie theatre and watching it in a
:34:14. > :34:16.movie theatre. There is something about the communal experience of
:34:17. > :34:19.being in a cinema with a load of other people and seeing some
:34:20. > :34:24.fantastic film unfold in front of your eyes together, that is actually
:34:25. > :34:30.something that is worth doing? Right, so I mean if we go back in
:34:31. > :34:34.time before television sets were actually in millions and millions of
:34:35. > :34:38.homes it was strictly theatre. When TV came out and people thought you
:34:39. > :34:43.can't watch a movie on a TV you have to go to a theatre, so this is
:34:44. > :34:46.transition going from the television set to the iPhone. Nowadays we have
:34:47. > :34:51.got everything. We are so short of time, I will put to you Al Pacino's
:34:52. > :34:56.point, he says the nuances and the way actors deliver the lines, even a
:34:57. > :35:05.vague expression, a tiny expression is completely lost by screwing your
:35:06. > :35:08.eyes and looking into the iPhone? The experience itself, going back to
:35:09. > :35:13.what Al Pacino said, it is not that I disagree with him, it is the
:35:14. > :35:18.experience you get at a movie theatre you are not alone. If you
:35:19. > :35:22.have a home theatre sitting in front of large screen and viewing it
:35:23. > :35:26.alone, I agree. At a movie theatre you have hundreds of people around
:35:27. > :35:30.you, someone is making a sound or someone's phone is going off, or
:35:31. > :35:34.eating popcorn next to you or a baby crying. Things of that nature is
:35:35. > :35:39.where you lose that attention span. But if you are on an iPhone, it is
:35:40. > :35:43.in front of you, it is just you and you are strictly looking at it. So
:35:44. > :35:48.you get, you become one with the film maker and one with the actor.
:35:49. > :35:51.Thank you very much for joining us. If you are going to the movies have
:35:52. > :36:15.great time this weekend, that is all we have time for, good night.
:36:16. > :36:16.great time this weekend, that is all we have time for, good night. Some