:00:00. > :00:07.Tonight - this programme has seen details of the extraordinary
:00:08. > :00:10.payments made by Kids Company to some of its clients.
:00:11. > :00:23.Why was the charity authorising spending on designer shoes
:00:24. > :00:26.Ministers saw these details before authorising a multi-million
:00:27. > :00:29.One senior Cabinet office source told me these
:00:30. > :00:34.Either you leave us to die in peace, or either tell the world the truth!
:00:35. > :00:37.He spent a third of his life in a cell in Guantanmo Bay.
:00:38. > :00:40.Now Shaker Aamer is released home to Britain - without charge.
:00:41. > :00:42.What purpose has Guantanmo served - and what do its practices say
:00:43. > :00:47.We're joined by two men who know Gauantanamo well
:00:48. > :00:59.Musicians play their instrument, I play the orchestra.
:01:00. > :01:02.We talk to film director Danny Boyle about his no holds-barred portrayal
:01:03. > :01:09.A corporation like Apple is so powerful now,
:01:10. > :01:13.so influential around the world, that it is crucial that writers and
:01:14. > :01:17.artists tell the stories that they don't necessarily want you to tell.
:01:18. > :01:20.And on Artsnight, George the Poet explores black culture in the
:01:21. > :01:34.For me, racism always trumps sexism, for me.
:01:35. > :01:38.A senior cabinet office source has described as "gobsmacking"
:01:39. > :01:42.details of the payments made by the charity Kids Company just three days
:01:43. > :01:49.A preliminary report - seen by this programme - confirms large
:01:50. > :02:04.sums were made to individual clients - and even to the family of staff.
:02:05. > :02:15.One individual received ?47,000 over the past year. Government officials
:02:16. > :02:20.had advised ministers against giving the charity further money.
:02:21. > :02:24.Kids Company - which shut down in August - had been led by
:02:25. > :02:26.the charistmatic and high profile founder, Camilla Batmanghelidgh.
:02:27. > :02:28.Chris Cook who broke the orginal story of Kids Company's
:02:29. > :02:32.Ministers were sent a report containing concerning
:02:33. > :02:35.details about Kids Company just three days before they paid it ?3
:02:36. > :02:43.The document obtained by Newsnight and BuzzFeed News contains new
:02:44. > :02:45.information about the charity's operations under
:02:46. > :02:50.And it will increase pressure on Matthew Hancock and Oliver Letwin,
:02:51. > :02:52.the two Cabinet Office ministers who signed off on the payment.
:02:53. > :03:00.The report is by PWC, the accountants.
:03:01. > :03:03.It is an interim response to a set of allegations made to
:03:04. > :03:05.the Charity Commission by former employees of Kids Company.
:03:06. > :03:08.Now, here is how Alan Yentob, the charity's chair of trustees
:03:09. > :03:12.and a BBC executive, characterised its content to MPs a fortnight ago.
:03:13. > :03:15.Because of the allegations going on, because we had to go to the PWC
:03:16. > :03:18.and pay them ?50,000 to tell us that there wasn't much substance
:03:19. > :03:21.in the allegations and therefore the Cabinet Office should go ahead
:03:22. > :03:26.This confidential report doesn't adjudicate on the allegations that
:03:27. > :03:35.were made to the Charity Commission.
:03:36. > :03:38.But what it does do is establishes the facts around them and it finds
:03:39. > :03:46.For example, patchy record keeping. The thing
:03:47. > :03:49.The thing that really jumped out from this report, there is
:03:50. > :03:53.the sheer scale of the spending on some of Kids Company's clients.
:03:54. > :04:03.Two young people related to staff members benefit from nearly 134
:04:04. > :04:07.thousand pounds worth of spending. PWC said ?90,000 of that went on
:04:08. > :04:13.therapy but that still leaves a lot to account for. When they went
:04:14. > :04:17.through the receipts they found one from this designer shoe shop in the
:04:18. > :04:24.London West End. ?300 on a single pair of designer shoes. In other
:04:25. > :04:28.cases the PWC report mentions receipts for Apple computers and
:04:29. > :04:31.high-end clothes shops. Kids Company refuses to comment on individual
:04:32. > :04:37.cases but the charity said spending was always motivated by specific of
:04:38. > :04:42.each client. The document also showed spending on the child of an
:04:43. > :04:48.Iranian diplomat, document says Kids Company funded their Ph.D. At a
:04:49. > :04:57.high-ranking British university. Support was costed at ?25,000 per
:04:58. > :05:01.year. Camila Batmanghelidjh who is herself Iranian, said she had not
:05:02. > :05:05.been involved in the case. But she said the president needed support
:05:06. > :05:09.and the donor was sponsoring the spending. But why was Kids Company
:05:10. > :05:17.sponsoring a foreign student at all? The PWC report also looks into
:05:18. > :05:21.allegations of employment irregularities. Money for a favoured
:05:22. > :05:27.crime. It confirms one person received over ?47,000 in untaxed
:05:28. > :05:34.income in 2014, including thousands of pounds for rent and clothes. This
:05:35. > :05:38.individual was not required at all but an employee. They were just paid
:05:39. > :05:42.as a client to avoid taxes. The charity completely denies this but
:05:43. > :05:47.even if this person was acquired, we still have a problem. Acquired
:05:48. > :05:52.received almost ?1000 per from Kids Company. This person did not have a
:05:53. > :05:58.family but this is what Camila Batmanghelidjh said to MPs two weeks
:05:59. > :06:05.ago. Was it true that people over the age of 18 received over ?100 per
:06:06. > :06:11.week? That would be very rare and only if it was a family. And they
:06:12. > :06:14.have two support a family. You are aware that it is contempt of
:06:15. > :06:21.Parliament to mislead us? Absolutely. This charity leader, who
:06:22. > :06:25.has had previous disagreements with Kids Company, thinks the money they
:06:26. > :06:31.spent was not well tailored to the needs of recipient. What I'm seeing
:06:32. > :06:36.in the report is random, flamboyant largesse as opposed to strategic
:06:37. > :06:43.support of vulnerable young people. I would want to see in any kind of
:06:44. > :06:48.paperwork from Kids Company, detailed care plan. Why this
:06:49. > :06:51.individual was chosen, why the amounts of money were given in this
:06:52. > :06:57.way and for this purpose. The charity of course disagrees. They
:06:58. > :07:02.say spending was based on assessment of personal, social and clinical
:07:03. > :07:03.needs but the report is a problem for ministers and raises questions
:07:04. > :07:06.for Alan Yentob. A spokesman for
:07:07. > :07:08.the charity's leaders has told us: The allegations made to the Charity
:07:09. > :07:11.Commission were not substantiated. When PWC reported on their findings
:07:12. > :07:14.the evidence they had seen did not This was not a full audit
:07:15. > :07:19.but an intensive investigation looking at hundreds of documents
:07:20. > :07:23.and interviews with key staff. Alan Yentob made it clear to
:07:24. > :07:25.the Public Accounts Select Committee that the PWC investigation
:07:26. > :07:30.was incomplete. Financial and practical support has
:07:31. > :07:33.always been part of Kids Company's role providing
:07:34. > :07:36.a supportive family environment. All the gifts referred to in the PWC
:07:37. > :07:39.report were funded by private donors,
:07:40. > :07:53.not by the Government's grant. Chris Cook, he is with us here.
:07:54. > :07:56.Where does that now leave things? Well the next phase is with the
:07:57. > :08:04.select committee, there is a session next week and the big one will be
:08:05. > :08:07.with Matt Hancock and Oliver Aleppo and having to explain themselves.
:08:08. > :08:12.Their argument is really that ministers have been overruling civil
:08:13. > :08:17.servants to give money to Kids Company since 2002. They were the
:08:18. > :08:25.ones who forced Camila Batmanghelidjh to resign. It is sort
:08:26. > :08:29.of their fault that money was spent recently but they were at least not
:08:30. > :08:30.as bad as previous ministers. Thank you very much.
:08:31. > :08:33.For the last 14 years he's been known as detainee 239.
:08:34. > :08:36.Shaker Aamer has spent nearly a third of his life in Guantanamo bay
:08:37. > :08:39.- and yet this evening he returned home to the UK without charge.
:08:40. > :08:41.His plane landed at Biggin Hill airport this afternoon,
:08:42. > :08:44.and the man - picked up by a bounty hunter in the
:08:45. > :08:47.Jelalabad region of Afghanistan in 2001 - was released without charge.
:08:48. > :08:50.He has always denied any form of extremism - and
:08:51. > :08:53.in later years he became an advocate for other prisoners rights.
:08:54. > :08:56.He could now be in line for a ?1 million payout
:08:57. > :09:01.Tonight, we ask why he was kept for so long - and what purpose
:09:02. > :09:18.The voice of Shaker Aamer, recorded in his cell by an American
:09:19. > :09:26.documentary team in Guantanamo Bay two years ago.
:09:27. > :09:34.Today Shaker Aamer, the final British resident in Guantanamo
:09:35. > :09:39.arrived back in the UK after 14 years of internment without trial.
:09:40. > :09:43.He was cleared for release in 2007. A Saudi national, he had been living
:09:44. > :09:47.in the UK before his arrest that has a wife and four children. His
:09:48. > :09:55.youngest son who he has never seen, was born the same day he was sent to
:09:56. > :10:00.Guantanamo Bay. Shaker Aamer, would eating the 239, was captured in
:10:01. > :10:06.Afghanistan in 2001. He claims he was engaged in aid work at the time
:10:07. > :10:09.but in US documents released by WikiLeaks, is described as a
:10:10. > :10:13.recruiter, financier and facilitator with a history of participating in
:10:14. > :10:16.jihadist combat. The documents also state he admitted travelling to
:10:17. > :10:22.Afghanistan in 2000 to serve with the mujahedin. In spite of these
:10:23. > :10:26.allegations, he was never charged and his lawyers have said he was
:10:27. > :10:31.subject to regular beatings, sleep deprivation and spread almost one
:10:32. > :10:34.year in solitary confinement. His supporters said the delay in this
:10:35. > :10:41.release was due to security service failures that he could reveal
:10:42. > :10:44.damaging information. He alleges British intelligence agents
:10:45. > :10:50.questioned him and they knew that he was being tortured. It is unlikely
:10:51. > :10:55.then that his return to the UK marks an end to his story. But for now
:10:56. > :10:58.Shaker Aamer has said he is more pressing priorities, like a cup of
:10:59. > :11:00.coffee and reuniting with his wife and family.
:11:01. > :11:05.Our two guests tonight both know it well, but have seen it
:11:06. > :11:08.Here in the studio, Moazzam Begg, a former detainee incarcerated
:11:09. > :11:11.there for two years - and from Washington David Rivkin, a former
:11:12. > :11:23.Thank you both for coming in. Moazzam Begg you have been in touch
:11:24. > :11:30.with the family of Shaker Aamer today. Of course they are overjoyed,
:11:31. > :11:34.they have also been apprehensive about what it means to reconnect
:11:35. > :11:39.with the father, husband. And of course Shaker Aamer has not seen
:11:40. > :11:43.those children, the last time he saw them they were just babies and he
:11:44. > :11:49.has never met his youngest until today. So what that means for Shaker
:11:50. > :11:56.Aamer is to be a father once again, a husband, a member of society. And
:11:57. > :11:59.to be able to walk out of the four corners of the cell that he used to
:12:00. > :12:05.being, unrestricted. It is something completely new him. 14 years and
:12:06. > :12:11.then no charge at all. Guantanamo Bay seems pretty indefensible on a
:12:12. > :12:16.day like today? On the contrary, the fact that he has not been charged is
:12:17. > :12:21.not signify anything. He was held for a number of years as an enemy
:12:22. > :12:26.combatant while the conflict was still going on. It is quite common
:12:27. > :12:30.not to charge people and despite insinuations to the contrary, he was
:12:31. > :12:37.held in humane and comfortable conditions. Better than most people
:12:38. > :12:43.in federal prisons. He was not a charity worker, he was a combatant,
:12:44. > :12:46.and there was plenty of evidence, he belonged to an organisation that
:12:47. > :12:52.committed acts of brutality, killing innocent women and children,
:12:53. > :12:54.torturing people. With all due respect are not greatly moved by his
:12:55. > :12:58.desire to be reunited with his family. What about people who were
:12:59. > :13:06.killed and tortured and had their heads cut off? So tonight you do not
:13:07. > :13:14.see him as an innocent man? Well to not try to deliberate on TV whether
:13:15. > :13:17.or not he is innocent. It is quite crucial to this. You are accusing
:13:18. > :13:22.him of things he may or may not have done. In your mind he is not an
:13:23. > :13:26.innocent man tonight? He is not innocent for the simple reason, the
:13:27. > :13:34.Bush administration and the Obama administration have been quite
:13:35. > :13:38.critical about Guantanamo Bay, but he has multiple reviews of his
:13:39. > :13:45.record by objective and honourable military officers.
:13:46. > :13:51.It's not a question of convicting him, it is looking at the record and
:13:52. > :13:59.concluding there is insufficient evidence. I want to ask Moazzam
:14:00. > :14:04.Begg, when you got home and looking at Shaker's position in society, do
:14:05. > :14:09.you feel like an innocent man, you've heard this opinion from an
:14:10. > :14:11.advocate of Guantanamo Bay, do you feel vindicated? We are talking
:14:12. > :14:15.about countries that advocate the rule of law, countries that talk
:14:16. > :14:21.about habeas corpus, the right to the body, either you are presented
:14:22. > :14:25.with the evidence against you and prosecuted, or you are released.
:14:26. > :14:28.There cannot be this third type of situation the gentleman here is
:14:29. > :14:33.suggesting. Even Obama ordered the closure of Guantanamo. He said it is
:14:34. > :14:38.an indefensible place. People are being executed dressed in orange
:14:39. > :14:46.suits in Iraq by Isis, for example. It doesn't alarm you that there have
:14:47. > :14:51.been fewer than 2% convicted? That is not a concern for you? For the
:14:52. > :14:57.benefit of your viewers, in a military justice system, which is
:14:58. > :15:03.very different from the criminal justice system. It does not mean it
:15:04. > :15:09.is lacking due process. People were held for years in prisoners of war
:15:10. > :15:13.camp, the vast majority not convicted in World War I and World
:15:14. > :15:15.War II. It's not a question of conviction, whether there is
:15:16. > :15:20.sufficient evidence to conclude he was an enemy combatant. Would you
:15:21. > :15:25.keep the camp open? Would you keep it going? I'd keep Guantanamo open
:15:26. > :15:28.but that's nothing to do with the question, this individual was given
:15:29. > :15:34.the benefit of the doubt, numerous reviews were conducted and they
:15:35. > :15:37.concluded he was a member of Al-Qaeda, which is a horrible
:15:38. > :15:46.organisation. Shaker Aamer has been cleared by at least six agencies. He
:15:47. > :15:51.was not cleared, that is a lie. He's been cleared by two consecutive US
:15:52. > :15:54.governments and never did designated for trial even by military
:15:55. > :16:01.commission which is the lowest standard. The process that exists...
:16:02. > :16:04.You are misleading. If you look at the code of justice any advocate
:16:05. > :16:10.from the military has not been trained to use that process, and
:16:11. > :16:14.even in that process they were never charging Shaker Aamer. I don't know
:16:15. > :16:18.on what basis you say he's guilty. He is not. He has been held in false
:16:19. > :16:24.detention, kidnapped, rendered and tortured. I want to pick up on the
:16:25. > :16:30.point in terms of the interrogation and torture. David Rivkin, are you
:16:31. > :16:32.convinced that British authorities supported US authorities in what
:16:33. > :16:42.they were doing to inmates in Guantanamo? I would be amazed. I
:16:43. > :16:44.have no factual knowledge of what transpired at any particular time. I
:16:45. > :16:55.be amazed if anybody was mistreated in Guantanamo. You say nobody was
:16:56. > :17:01.tortured in Guantanamo Bay? Nobody was tortured in Guantanamo Bay.
:17:02. > :17:06.Moazzam Begg. Have you missed completely the CAA report? Have you
:17:07. > :17:11.lived in a different world completely? Why did Obama ordered
:17:12. > :17:15.the closure of Guantanamo Bay knee came into power? Why did he say I'm
:17:16. > :17:20.going to end torture. He accepted torture existed. You deny it took
:17:21. > :17:24.place. The only place it didn't happen was in your brain. Torture
:17:25. > :17:30.never took place in Guantanamo. President Obama misspoke or
:17:31. > :17:36.misunderstood? President Obama was referring to an investigation at
:17:37. > :17:39.so-called CIA black sites, different issue to what happened in
:17:40. > :17:45.Guantanamo. Nobody alleged there was mistreatment in Guantanamo. Every
:17:46. > :17:48.single prisoner and American soldiers who served there, and
:17:49. > :17:53.including some American prosecutors like Matt Diaz who resigned from the
:17:54. > :18:00.commission process said there was tortured taking place. That is total
:18:01. > :18:02.rubbish. Captain said torture was taking place and numerous people who
:18:03. > :18:09.served in Guantanamo said torture took place. What do you think
:18:10. > :18:13.Guantanamo chief, David Rivkin? Guantanamo has been criticised and
:18:14. > :18:18.we paid a price, I understand that. Guantanamo symbolises this is a real
:18:19. > :18:22.war against an implacable enemy which if we don't win will cost us
:18:23. > :18:25.dearly. This is not a criminal justice exercise and the vast
:18:26. > :18:30.majority of European friends just don't get it. Why were over 670
:18:31. > :18:34.prisoners including myself released? If we are so dangerous why
:18:35. > :18:39.are we free men? It doesn't make my sense will stop you made them had
:18:40. > :18:43.mistakenly called us terrorists and the worst of the worst without any
:18:44. > :18:49.legal process at all. Quite frankly this is nonsense. What you are left
:18:50. > :18:53.with is a place that is a stain on the United States which you are
:18:54. > :18:59.trying to defend. The viewers know what the recidivism rate of people
:19:00. > :19:04.released from Guantanamo? Yes, I wrote a book and that is called
:19:05. > :19:08.recidivism. And also the guys who made a film, it is called recidivism
:19:09. > :19:13.because they made a film about Guantanamo, that is nonsense,
:19:14. > :19:18.please! We've run out of time. Many people went back to fighting and
:19:19. > :19:19.killing innocent civilians! We have run out of time, thank you for
:19:20. > :19:20.coming in. Does the House
:19:21. > :19:23.of Commons need to debate the need One Conservative MP - Philip Davies
:19:24. > :19:27.- thinks the answer is yes. And he put his suggestion to
:19:28. > :19:30.a backbench business committee. One of its members - Jess Philips -
:19:31. > :19:33.the only woman on the board - said the gender imbalance,
:19:34. > :19:36.not least of their own committee, "When I've got parity - when women
:19:37. > :19:42.in these buildings have parity, then It could have ended there.
:19:43. > :19:46.But it didn't. Jess Phillips joins us now from her
:19:47. > :20:02.home in Birmingham, to explain. What happened, Jess Phillips? Hello.
:20:03. > :20:06.What happened? Philip Davies came to the backbench
:20:07. > :20:12.business committee and asked for, as you have outlined, asked for a
:20:13. > :20:15.debate, International Men's Day debate, on the 19th of November.
:20:16. > :20:23.I've not heard of it before. He led the charge in a sort of: The women
:20:24. > :20:28.get one and a question session in Parliament so the men should have
:20:29. > :20:36.one too. Then the fallout from it was that I spoke up against it,
:20:37. > :20:41.which was presented by a certain newspaper that I had laughed and
:20:42. > :20:47.joked about male suicide, men dying of cancer, young boys' education,
:20:48. > :20:56.which obviously I did not do. And then I suffered a huge torrent of
:20:57. > :20:59.very noisy abuse from men's rights activists, which very unfortunately
:21:00. > :21:07.led to a very dark bit of the Internet calling for me to be raped,
:21:08. > :21:12.banged and raped, raped publicly. And then when I published that on
:21:13. > :21:17.Twitter then there was a torrent of people that said I was asking for
:21:18. > :21:20.it, and it was my own fault. You called this a dark bit of the
:21:21. > :21:26.Internet, do you think this is just a very small tiny section of it. Or
:21:27. > :21:30.do you feel that what happened to you was fairly representative of
:21:31. > :21:36.what happens to a woman? Well, there are many examples. Stella Creasy,
:21:37. > :21:43.Kayla Mueller ran, the journalist has suffered from it. Caroline
:21:44. > :21:51.Criado-Perez, suffered terribly. It is not in anyway just aimed at me so
:21:52. > :21:57.it seems frilly, and. It goes immediately to sexual violence.
:21:58. > :22:00.Philip Davies has done some pretty awful things that people have
:22:01. > :22:04.criticised him on Twitter for today. Today he did a pretty awful thing to
:22:05. > :22:13.carers. But I very much doubt that as a man anyone is threatening to
:22:14. > :22:18.rape him and gag him and bind him. What has that done to your
:22:19. > :22:26.perception of what happened? You said a paper criticised you for
:22:27. > :22:32.laughing, or for treating its -- it lightly. Do you think any of your
:22:33. > :22:37.behaviour was wrong in spite of what has happened since? If I was there
:22:38. > :22:41.again I might not laugh at a man who was clearly not an equalities
:22:42. > :22:45.champion, suggesting that... The thing that made me laugh was the
:22:46. > :22:49.suggestion that men don't have an opportunity to speak up in the House
:22:50. > :22:53.of Commons. Not any other things. If he'd come with a debate about male
:22:54. > :22:57.suicide I would have been delighted to push that through. The reason he
:22:58. > :23:02.didn't get his debate was because he didn't fill in the form properly,
:23:03. > :23:05.nothing to do with me. Country to what you can read. Apps I wouldn't
:23:06. > :23:10.be so flippant. I will protect myself in future. I will not
:23:11. > :23:16.speaking up though, against people who frankly using quality as a tool
:23:17. > :23:21.for their own ridiculous agenda -- I will not stop speaking up. Used to
:23:22. > :23:26.think of politics as stuffy and out of reach of normal people. You know
:23:27. > :23:30.what it is like to use an expletive or two against a colleague, Diane
:23:31. > :23:35.Abbott in a PLP meeting, I'm thinking of. The fact you can call
:23:36. > :23:39.her names, or burst out laughing at a suggestion, or that people are now
:23:40. > :23:44.directly contacting you and you are reachable and relate about to, do
:23:45. > :23:49.you think in one sense that is breaking down barriers between
:23:50. > :23:54.people and politicians? It is and one of the things people said to me
:23:55. > :23:58.since becoming an MP is that I speak like normal people, I have a normal
:23:59. > :24:03.life and the way I react sometimes is sometimes a bit childish. I'm
:24:04. > :24:07.only human. When I'm cross and angry I behave like most people do when
:24:08. > :24:11.they are cross and angry, and maybe parliament will beat that out of me
:24:12. > :24:15.eventually. But while there are a few idiots threatening to rape me
:24:16. > :24:20.for being a woman with a big voice, the vast majority of people who
:24:21. > :24:25.speak to me in my constituency, and on the Internet at large, are
:24:26. > :24:30.delighted that there seems to be more humanity in the place. Anything
:24:31. > :24:38.that makes a place with the amount of protocols and rules that
:24:39. > :24:42.Parliament has. Jess Phillips, we've lost the link, we know where you
:24:43. > :24:43.were going. Thank you, if you can still hear us.
:24:44. > :24:47.How do you make an epic movie about someone who is already part
:24:48. > :24:49.of so many of our daily lives, the man who invented Apple?
:24:50. > :24:52.Aaron Sorkin - the scriptwriter who brought Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg's
:24:53. > :24:54.Aaron Sorkin - the scriptwriter who brought Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg
:24:55. > :24:58.to the big screen - was tasked with doing the same for Steve Jobs.
:24:59. > :25:00.He teams up with Director Danny Boyle - to depict the
:25:01. > :25:03.scenes backstage as Jobs prepares to face an audience of enthusiastic
:25:04. > :25:06.The film out next month captures the entrepreneur's life,
:25:07. > :25:10.In fact it depicts him as something of a brute.
:25:11. > :25:14.Danny Boyle has been talking to Evan.
:25:15. > :25:18.What do you do? You're not an engineer.
:25:19. > :25:22.You're not a designer. You can't put a hammer to a nail.
:25:23. > :25:27.I built the circuit board. The graphical interface was stolen.
:25:28. > :25:30.So how come ten times in a day I read Steve jobs is a genius?
:25:31. > :25:42.Your Steve Jobs has come out, I think a lot of people think,
:25:43. > :25:44.as quite a jerk actually, quite unpleasant.
:25:45. > :25:52.I think Michael's portrait of him is uncompromising
:25:53. > :25:55.and what is extraordinary about his performance as well, and
:25:56. > :25:58.obviously Aaron Sorkin's writing of it, was that you were not shielded
:25:59. > :26:04.There are many people who would testify to great devotion to him
:26:05. > :26:06.and the huge inspiration that they gain from him.
:26:07. > :26:12.And other people felt they were very damaged.
:26:13. > :26:13.You're issuing contradictory instructions, you're insubordinate,
:26:14. > :26:23.You put together an opening ceremony for the Olympic Games.
:26:24. > :26:26.I had to do a little bit of shouting at the International
:26:27. > :26:29.Olympic Committee, but anybody, no matter what kind of person you are,
:26:30. > :26:36.would shout at the International Olympic Committee at some point!
:26:37. > :26:38.They say with film directors there is
:26:39. > :26:56.That actually there are things that you're after that you will do
:26:57. > :26:59.anything to get out, and there needs to be many differentiations in
:27:00. > :27:04.But I believe in honesty. I try to be honest with people.
:27:05. > :27:06.And I think that does bring the best out of them.
:27:07. > :27:08.It's a system error. Fix it.
:27:09. > :27:09.Fix it? Yeah!
:27:10. > :27:12.We're not a pit crew at Daytona. This can't be fixed in seconds.
:27:13. > :27:14.You didn't have seconds, you had three weeks.
:27:15. > :27:16.The universe was created in a third of that time.
:27:17. > :27:19.Well, someday you will have to tell us how you did it.
:27:20. > :27:23.One of the things the film attracted is a bit of an argument about how
:27:24. > :27:26.far a movie about a real guy can bend facts and have dramatic licence
:27:27. > :27:31.I think it comes partly out of a despair
:27:32. > :27:38.So what you end up developing, if you are dealing with real life, is
:27:39. > :27:44.you end up developing a sense, and listen, this is not going to stand
:27:45. > :27:48.up in a court of law, it's the bull shit sense where you go, it's the
:27:49. > :27:51.bull shit detector, where you go, "I don't believe that."
:27:52. > :27:54.You get that nightmare with actors where they go I'd think
:27:55. > :27:57.my character would behave quite like this at this moment, which
:27:58. > :28:00.fills you with this horror moment for a director, when you think,
:28:01. > :28:05.But actually, it's very important because it's an internal moral
:28:06. > :28:08.sense that you think we are being honest here and respectful.
:28:09. > :28:11.You're arriving at that spot on a long lens looking that way.
:28:12. > :28:13.Have you been annoyed at the argument that has raged
:28:14. > :28:18.No, I think it's actually one of the reasons why I did the film.
:28:19. > :28:23.Because, I think that a corporation like Apple is so powerful now are
:28:24. > :28:25.Because, I think that a corporation like Apple is so powerful now,
:28:26. > :28:28.so influential around the world, that it's crucial that writers and
:28:29. > :28:31.artists tell the stories that they don't necessarily want you to tell.
:28:32. > :28:34.I don't mean that you are digging out stuff about them
:28:35. > :28:36.that's unacceptable behaviour wise or anything like that.
:28:37. > :28:43.But you actually do tell stories about how it has happened that this
:28:44. > :28:45.company that was born in a garage 40 years ago dominates
:28:46. > :28:48.the world now and is richer than virtually all countries on earth
:28:49. > :28:53.Do you feel like a Hollywood insider now?
:28:54. > :28:56.You won an Oscar for Slumdog Millionaire.
:28:57. > :28:58.But you are kind of like an independent film-maker
:28:59. > :29:04.Are you a Hollywood person now? No, not really.
:29:05. > :29:07.This is the first script I've ever done that we didn't generate
:29:08. > :29:11.But then we made this film and we lived
:29:12. > :29:16.And I kind of understood really. It's an extraordinary town.
:29:17. > :29:17.And I come from Manchester originally,
:29:18. > :29:20.which had a lot to do with the first Industrial Revolution.
:29:21. > :29:22.And it's weird working in a town that is
:29:23. > :29:24.a modern Industrial Revolution, like the updated version of it.
:29:25. > :29:27.You got a sense of potential of how things are changing,
:29:28. > :29:41.It's three years since the Olympic opening ceremony now.
:29:42. > :29:45.Everybody said Danny Boyle produced a statement of our country that most
:29:46. > :29:56.people thought, this is rather good, we are proud of this.
:29:57. > :30:00.And it was a sort of statement of a modern nation at ease with itself.
:30:01. > :30:03.I just wonder what you think about the state of Britain.
:30:04. > :30:06.We are always in a state of total self-criticism.
:30:07. > :30:09.The Olympic opening ceremony was a chance to say that
:30:10. > :30:12.behind that there is a sense of a progressive, decent country
:30:13. > :30:16.And we can encourage it, which I think is all you can do.
:30:17. > :30:19.Has there been any dent in your view of Britain
:30:20. > :30:22.as a country which is free and which has these core values?
:30:23. > :30:24.The debate over migrants this summer, for example.
:30:25. > :30:28.I think any hesitancy about resisting refugees coming to this
:30:29. > :30:31.country just denies the very nature of what the country is built on.
:30:32. > :30:38.I mean, we have always had a noble tradition of being a refuge for
:30:39. > :30:43.people who, for whatever reason, are under threat and I think that's part
:30:44. > :30:46.of our national identity and what makes us a great country really.
:30:47. > :30:53.Are you filled with the joy of a new politics, or are you filled with
:30:54. > :30:56.the horror of a man who you don't think can win the next election?
:30:57. > :30:59.Which of the various narratives about Jeremy Corbyn do you buy into?
:31:00. > :31:01.Shall we do a biopic of Jeremy Corbyn?
:31:02. > :31:12.He's obviously a very admirable man and I admire the way that he has
:31:13. > :31:14.maintained his own personal principles throughout his time,
:31:15. > :31:23.Obviously your only concern is that in the sway of things, by the time
:31:24. > :31:27.the back and forth has finished and you arrive at an election when
:31:28. > :31:30.you have to make absolute decisions is, will the Labour Party remain a
:31:31. > :31:34.proper force that can be a government really?
:31:35. > :31:38.Now on Artsnight, George the Poet explores
:31:39. > :31:41.the meaning of black culture in music, theatre, writing and